| Subject: |
Constitution |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 01:27:05 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Gaius Severus Marius;
In response to your question, Nova Roma, having no lands currently also
agrees to abide by the local Civil Law in all proovinces. As you
probably know Civil Law in the United States is based on the
Constitution. In provinces outside of the United States local law may
depend on any of a variety and combination of documents. Since I have
no idea where you reside, it woud be very difficult for me to explain
further.
The Constitution in the U.S. is a very important legal document, as you
may know, since from it extend all our rights and freedoms and within
the shadow of it our government works. It does not always work well,
but it works. The Constitution is also the cornerstone of the history
of this United States, and it permits many of the freedoms that you are
able to excercise today. We often forget how fortunate we are to be
able to operate freely as we do, as many others in todays world simply
do not have the rights or abiliy to do so.
Marcus Minucius Audens.
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] new Title |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 01:42:07 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Hmmmmm!!! Drawing the swords of Nova Roma and refusing to acknowledge
another Gens. I have to admit that you certainly have a knack for
developing the Pax that has been requested. Perhaps a couple of
scorpins with flame arrows may help as well!!!
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Latin or English? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:31:21 EDT |
|
In a message dated 7/9/99 9:22:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:
<<
My vote would be for English with Latin subtitles. I don't think we
would lose anything from doing this. I don't see the Rooman Catholic
Church using Latin titles for their clergy for example. Did they lose
anything? To the contrary I think they actual didn't seem as foreign to
the local people in various parts of the world using titles more common
to each region. In a minor way, use of Latin or any other language not
native to local people just helps with a certain unintentional
alienation, though perhaps I could be wrong.
>>
LOL! Actually, when the Catholic church went from the Latin Mass to the New
Mass, (figuring they'd be more popular with younger generations) REALLY began
to lose people en masse. People had been drawing away from the church due to
it's poor administration, not because of the form of its rituals. Once the
church lost the "pomp and circumstance" in it's rites it was so vanilla that
nobody cared. What's that got to do with Latin names in Nova Roma? Well, not
much... ;)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Announcement |
| From: |
"Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" a_i_c_nocturnia@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:55:09 PDT |
|
Salvete Quirites!
As most of you are aware, Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I have been engaged
since February, and a month ago I came over, from Britannia, to the United
States to live with Sulla.
However, in the course of that month circumstances have arisen and, to make
a long story short, while we both still love each other and care for each
other, I have decided to return to the UK.
Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Materfamilias of the Plebeian Gens Iulia Caesaria
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Rusticus" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:44:13 -0400 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=243089020012185237172149141056243012000102196196128130152150" >a_i_c_nocturnia@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:Novaroma@--------" >Novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 8:55 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement
> From: "Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=243089020012185237172149141056243012000102196196128130152150" >a_i_c_nocturnia@--------</a>
>
>
>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> As most of you are aware, Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I have been engaged
> since February, and a month ago I came over, from Britannia, to the United
> States to live with Sulla.
>
> However, in the course of that month circumstances have arisen and, to
make
> a long story short, while we both still love each other and care for each
> other, I have decided to return to the UK.
Returning to the UK to find yourself a union Jack, eh? :)
Rusticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:16:28 -0500 |
|
On 10 Jul 99, at 5:55, Augustina Iulia Caesaria Noct wrote:
>
> However, in the course of that month circumstances have arisen and, to
> make a long story short, while we both still love each other and care for
> each other, I have decided to return to the UK.
>
> Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
> Materfamilias of the Plebeian Gens Iulia Caesaria
And that truth? Or will you cop out again and not talk about it?
Maybe you can have the man who is giving you money explain it.
You have disgraced yourself, Sulla and everyone who ever had faith
in you. I at least tried to talk to you and you refused. You are
having a strange man pay for your trip to the airport, where your
airline ticket may or may not be valid. What will he receive in
return? When I last talked to you, you told me everything was fine,
that everyone was happy. I can assume that this was true, or I can
assume that maybe you were somehow being manipulated by
Robert and were to scared of the repercussions (perhaps a beating
or being thrown into the streets -- I have been there myself, as
most Nova Romans know) to tell the truth. If this is the case, then
I say get out and FAST. If this is not the case, it looks (from the
many emails, IM's and verbal conversations I have had with both of
you) like you came here on the emotions and bank account of a
kind, gullible young man. Now your 'visa' is up and you are ready
to just go.
My sad conclusion is that you not only lied to Robert, you lied to
myself and to my husband. I would guess that you also lied to
everybody else as well. I do not feel used as Robert does, but my
husband and I do feel betrayed and lied to. This is unforgiveable in
this household.
I ask you again to talk to someone. I no longer wish you would
stay with Robert, he is better off without you. Karma is a bitch.
Crystal and Donald Meaker
|
| Subject: |
Face the Truth |
| From: |
"Lucius" vergil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:49:03 -0400 |
|
Salvete, Quirites
I most gratefully thank my friends and supporters, they have renewed my faith in my fellow man, but we must Face the Truth.
Marcus Cassius Iulianus aka William Bradford owns the Nova Roma website. <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/</a>
Flavius Vedius Germanicus aka Joe Bloch owns the Name 'Nova Roma', the flag and some other copywritten material (difficult to discern were what he has written ends and what he has borrowed begins in many cases) within the website.
They can and have done what they want regardless of the constitution. The statements of my supporters will go unnoticed by them. They have made their decision, And he owns the website.
When Cassius took control of the Website and declared an "Interregnum" That was in fact The Coup d'etat. Censores do not have 'imperium' and as Proconsul Novae Britanniae he does not have Imperium in matters of the Nation as a whole. But he owns the website, it belongs to him.
As for a Dictator. The Senate 'held' a meeting, in secret, during a holiday weekend. A vote was proposed, held, passed and announced in one afternoon without the knowledge of the Consul Maior (senior consul). But he owns the website.
When it was announced I, using the powers of my office, Vetoed the action of the other Consul convening the Senate for the purpose of voting anyone Dictator. Thus no vote was legally held to make anyone Dictator. Check the condtitution yourself A Consul can Veto the actions of the other Consul. Like I mentioned before Cassius owns the website and he has given control over to Germanicus. Curule Aedile Marcus Martianus was appointed by the Consules as webmaster and I have vetoed any change. So even the"INTERREGNUM" message was illegal. But he owns the website.
There was no need for a Dictator, only for those magistrates already holding office to do their jobs. But he owns the website.
Marcus Cassius and Decius Iunius panicked. They were facing the possibility of an indictment to impeach them from their office of Censor (other possible remedies such as an 'open letter' asking that the Comitiae be formed by a certain date otherwise their resignations were also being considered). But he owns the website.
Tell me anyone, how an elected Consul as the highest ranking magistrate can perform a Coup d'etat by initiating action against inferior magistrates for dereliction of their duties? Apparently so, because he owns the website.
Can any magistrate ignore his duties for over a year and not even be threatened with removal? Apparently so, because He owns the website.
As far back as January Germanicus himself asked me about doing something like this. He was frustrated the that the website was not being maintained (He had put a tremendous amount of work into it and it was being neglected) and that the Comitiae were not being formed. Neither Cassius nor Palladius had kept their repeated promises to do their constitutionally mandated duty to form the Tribes and Centuries. Was I to sit for my whole term and allow them to do nothing? It is my duty as Consul to see that the Government works in accord with the constitution. But he owns the website.
As Censores last year neither Germanicus (later after Germanicus quit Decius Iunius Palladius aka Art McGrath) nor Marcus Cassius formed the tribes or centuries. Thus, the Senate had the choice of not holding elections or holding them by a straight ballot. The decision to hold elections was made by then Consul M Cassius (then Consul Metellus was no more in evidence then than he is now) and was voted by the Senate with none dissenting (We only had 174 citizens and only 53 votes were cast during the election anyway). And he owns the website.
Anyone notice that the Censores who are the cause of this by their dereliction have not suffered any penalty? ...Well, he owns the website.
I had suggested, more than once, that the elections be suspended the first year. It should be obvious to all by now that Nova Roma was not fully formed and that the "founders" have no intention of giving up control, regardless of any elections. Because, he owns the website.
Ironically, someone who quit Nova Roma because he was told by his Gods is dispensing priesthoods within the Roman Pantheon. Where is the Pontifex Maximus? Why were all the priesthood applicants caste aside? Why weren't these applications posted? He ownes the website.
Ironic isn't it that last year about this time a certain Praetor Urbanus proposed to make Latin and/or English the official language of Nova Roma but was told that the Comitia Populi didn't exist but a vote was taken to make changes to the constitution. Where are the Centuries now? What does it matter, he owns the website.
I do not own the website and I was never Dictator so I cannot make unilateral changes. I do not begrudge the magistrates inclusion in the Senate but I must do things 'by the book'. But he owns the website.
Germanicus will change the Constitution (rules) to suit himself but the constitution itself instructs us on how it can be changed. But he owns the website.
It is a sad day when men cannot live by the decisions they have made and the rules they themselves made. I joined the Nova Roma that is portrayed on the website not the hidden Nova Roma Inc. I have resigned nothing. But he owns the website.
Now they have vilified me for doing what I could to see the constitution obeyed. It is they who have circumvented the constitution. It is they who have hidden the true nature of Nova Roma. Revel in your offices and titles but don't ask too many questions for you are no different than me. He owns the website.
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Consul, Senator et Flamen Martialis who owns no website...
(the Gens Equitia page belongs to Gaius Equitius Arminius)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Rusticus" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:18:02 -0400 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Don and Crys Meaker &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement
> From: "Don and Crys Meaker" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a>
>
> On 10 Jul 99, at 5:55, Augustina Iulia Caesaria Noct wrote:
>
> >
> > However, in the course of that month circumstances have arisen and, to
> > make a long story short, while we both still love each other and care
for
> > each other, I have decided to return to the UK.
> >
> > Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
> > Materfamilias of the Plebeian Gens Iulia Caesaria
> And that truth? Or will you cop out again and not talk about it?
> Maybe you can have the man who is giving you money explain it.
> You have disgraced yourself, Sulla and everyone who ever had faith
> in you. I at least tried to talk to you and you refused. You are
> having a strange man pay for your trip to the airport, where your
> airline ticket may or may not be valid. What will he receive in
> return? When I last talked to you, you told me everything was fine,
> that everyone was happy. I can assume that this was true, or I can
> assume that maybe you were somehow being manipulated by
> Robert and were to scared of the repercussions (perhaps a beating
> or being thrown into the streets -- I have been there myself, as
> most Nova Romans know) to tell the truth. If this is the case, then
> I say get out and FAST. If this is not the case, it looks (from the
> many emails, IM's and verbal conversations I have had with both of
> you came here on the emotions and bank account of a
> kind, gullible young man. Now your 'visa' is up and you are ready
> to just go.
I like Sulla decently well, but I believe that it's Russia, not Britian,
from which mail-order brides can be bought. Perhaps he ought to
have shopped further east of the UK?
It needed no haruspex, no ominous flight of birds, nor a diviner's
fork either to foresee this possibility: that happily ever after would
not come. On a regular date, Sulla'd be stuck with the tab; now he
has been stuck with airfare, too. Fortunately, being nine years older
than Nocta, he's sure to have had previous experience coping with
life's little disappointments. And perhaps, as a brother to three sisters,
I have a ingrained bias, but I believe, regardless of Nocta's behavior,
firstly that she may be pardoned for balking at marriage at age 18;
secondly that, being the less experienced, she cannot have used
Sulla any worse than his apprehensions should have counselled him
to anticipate; thirdly that a young woman, far away from her family
and having--I understand--medical conditions, is far more to be
pitied than a man that is healthy, educated, and a homeowner. I
have no information who this strange man mentioned is, but you
should be praying to your Gods that he is somehow trustworthy.
If aught happens to Nocta, who's fault can it be, youth given its
allowances, but Sulla's?
Regards,
Rusticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Rusticus" moman@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:29:00 -0400 |
|
> If aught happens to Nocta, who's fault can it be, youth given its
> allowances, but Sulla's?
Now look there, I was so impassioned that I made a boo-boo.
Rusticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:46:53 EDT |
|
Salvete omnes!
Once again, I see a startling lack of dignitas among some citizens.
There is absolutely no reason why all of Nova Roma (let alone anyone who
happens to subscribe to this e-mail list) should be publicly informed of one
of its citizens affairs of the heart. These matters are private and should
remain so.
Please let us not become a toga clad "Jerry Springer Show." I can
think of nothing more disrespectful of personal dignitas, more dishonorable
to the state, more callous to the feelings of the individuals involved -- and
more un-Roman than that.
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:36:59 -0500 |
|
On 10 Jul 99, --------2:46, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=100065242212067005015098190036129" >AC1917@--------</--------; wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
> Once again, I see a startling lack of dignitas among some citizens.
> There is absolutely no reason why all of Nova Roma (let alone anyone who
> happens to subscribe to this e-mail list) should be publicly informed of
> one of its citizens affairs of the heart. These matters are private and
> should remain so.
> Please let us not become a toga clad "Jerry Springer Show." I can
> think of nothing more disrespectful of personal dignitas, more
> dishonorable to the state, more callous to the feelings of the individuals
> involved -- and more un-Roman than that.
>
> Camillus Severus Antoninus
This list has shared with me the birth of my son (and damn near
the entire pregnancy), my marriage and my heartache. It has
shared with me my fears and my joys. The people on my list have
shared my pains. I consider these people my family.
I was asked by more than one person on this very list to share with
the family that which has transpired. I have been asked to share
emails and IM transcripts. I am struggling with my own dignitas
whether or not to post these transcripts. They are eye opening to
say the least. You want un-Roman, it is in those transcripts.
The people on this list have been listening to this drivel for months
now. The announcement of the beginning and the announcement
of the move and the announcement of the engagement and now
the announcement of the breakup. My email must occasionally
fail me as I missed all the complaints about the relationship and
most of the posts about my pregnancy and my childs birth. I am
sure for consistency, these complainers must have posted such
complaints. However, this IS why I began the Back Alley. That
people may speak their minds.
Personal business (like the details of my wedding and the details
about the Roman ring I wear and the Roman ring I will wear -- the
story of how the wedding went, our Ritual, etc) will not be shared
with this list in the future. A Roman wedding is a topic for 'Jerry
Springer' if I ever heard of one.
Mr and Mrs Donald Meaker
ICQ# 38493770
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Martins-Esteves" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:49:49 -0300 |
|
Avete Quirites
Ave Camille Severe
> Once again, I see a startling lack of dignitas among some citizens.
>There is absolutely no reason why all of Nova Roma (let alone anyone who
>happens to subscribe to this e-mail list) should be publicly informed of
one
>of its citizens affairs of the heart. These matters are private and should
>remain so.
> Please let us not become a toga clad "Jerry Springer Show." I can
>think of nothing more disrespectful of personal dignitas, more dishonorable
>to the state, more callous to the feelings of the individuals involved --
and
>more un-Roman than that.
>
>Camillus Severus Antoninus
I try to understand the variety of attitudes towards the public/private
issue. We have different backgrounds and each culture deals with this
matter using tools (ideology, moral, customs) which are not necessarily the
same. So, for instance, we in Brasil don't tend to divinize the private life
and I don't feel offended to read about Sulla-Nocturnia relationship on the
list. And besides, we all have also different personalities, that makes us
ressamble more catonic or more petronic. That is all self evident, and I am
almost ashamed of my chattering. But I am close to my point:
The Romans were not moralists, though some moralistic pieces extant in the
roman litterature. Don't say something is "un-Roman" just because you have
difficulties to accept it. You are definitly no arbiter romanitatis. Neither
me, of course.
It would be more proffitable to investigate the possibe causes of this
interest on Nocturnia's affaire. And let be me the object of search. Why am
I interested in it more than in the political circumstances of Nova Roma?
Well, when the Pope of NR is an almighty being that, writes the
constitution, re-writes the constitution, forms a Senate and so forth, WHAT
have I to do with politics? What have I to expect from the Publicum? I'd
better turn my attention to the Comedia Nova and to its privacies...
T. Horatius Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 11:33:15 -0700 |
|
Mainly I wanted to say how much I appreciate this post of Atticus. It has so much in it
that is so true. So much to the point. Especially that no one around is an arbiter
Romanitatis. As well as the comments on the public aspect of NR.
Ericius
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:53:04 -0500 |
|
>
>
> The Romans were not moralists, though some moralistic pieces extant in the
> roman litterature.
(
This is Don (GCM) by the way)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
Diomus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:52:48 EDT |
|
In a message dated 7/10/99 10:16:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> writes:
<< My sad conclusion is that you not only lied to Robert, you lied to
myself and to my husband. I would guess that you also lied to
everybody else as well. I do not feel used as Robert does, but my
husband and I do feel betrayed and lied to. This is unforgiveable in
this household.
I ask you again to talk to someone. I no longer wish you would
stay with Robert, he is better off without you. Karma is a bitch.
Crystal and Donald Meaker >>
My. That was a very interesting email to read. I would suggest that
in the future though that you keep such personal and private messages from
the list. Such matters are best discussed in private and well to be
honest...for those of us that are not involved...who care?
Flavius Lucianus Diomus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
Diomus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:55:37 EDT |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 7/10/99 12:47:25 PM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=100065242212067005015098190036129" >AC1917@--------</--------;
writes:
<< Salvete omnes!
Once again, I see a startling lack of dignitas among some citizens.
There is absolutely no reason why all of Nova Roma (let alone anyone who
happens to subscribe to this e-mail list) should be publicly informed of one
of its citizens affairs of the heart. These matters are private and should
remain so.
Please let us not become a toga clad "Jerry Springer Show." I can
think of nothing more disrespectful of personal dignitas, more dishonorable
to the state, more callous to the feelings of the individuals involved --
and
more un-Roman than that.
Camillus Severus Antoninus >>
The gods be praised! There is one with wisdom among us! I applaud
you Antoninus on you reply!
Flavius Lucianus Diomus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
JimmyG1970@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:23:44 EDT |
|
Salve!
I'm sorry you disagree with my dear brother Camillus but as paterfamilas of
the gens Severia I heartily agree with him. I think that there is something
more important going on in the Republic than someone elses private life.
This is best left for your domus not the res publica. However, the recent
dribble of e-mail may be best suited for I, Claudius. I don't care whether
or not someone shares a wedding announcement or birth (i think that is
lovely) but the sorid details of romantic life is beneath my and my brother's
dignatas as well as not worthy of the res publica considering the state of
affairs of the republic. Perhaps we need another forum to air the gossip. I
wonder how the paterfamilas or materfamilas of that gens feels about their
dirty togas bieng shown in the streets of Rome?
Humbly the servant of Rome
SPQR
Gaius Severus Marius
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:45:13 -0500 |
|
On 10 Jul 99, --------5:23, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173176014213196180024200097115114253071048139" >JimmyG1970@--------</--------; wrote:
> I
> wonder how the paterfamilas or materfamilas of that gens feels about their
> dirty togas bieng shown in the streets of Rome?
They ARE the Pater and Mater.
I have been told that I should be receiving an email from Nicolas
father, who gave his blessings. They are VERY upset. Not at
Sulla, but at their daughter.
Maybe this will stop the harassing emails to Sulla, who is not at
fault. But he wouldn't be getting harassing emails from ROMANS,
would he?
Crys
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Latin or English? |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:23:35 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Yes Cassius, I know that's very true about the problems the
Catholic Church had with losing the use of Latin in their Mass. I was
talking more in line with the use of personal titles which common people
would address the priest or deacon or bishop, archbishop, monk, nun,
father etc. I think that probably brings the clergy in a small
phycological way to seem more belonging to a local population than if
they used the Latin or let's say Chinese equivilents in personal titles.
Rituals are quite different than when a person sits down one on one to a
clergy member and addresses him/her by title--
like Father John or Brother Mike, etc.etc. That was the only point I
thought I should make though as I said I could be wrong --- it may not
really be all that significant a problem if at all.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Collectible Artifacts |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:34:05 -0500 (CDT) |
|
I was wondering how many people on the list are collectors of
ancient Roman artifacts-- coins, lamps, arrow points, etc.etc. ?
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Statement on the Recent Crisis |
| From: |
Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:04:44 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
Other than announcing the appointment of Flavius Vedius Germanicus
as Dictator, I have been silent on this list for quite awhile. I
would just like to make a few comments on the events of the last
few weeks and the reasons why I felt that it was necessary to appoint
a dictator.
The decision to convene the Senate for that express purpose
was one of the hardest of my life and certainly the hardest one I have
made in regards to Nova Roma. From a personal stand point, such an
action I knew would not reflect well on my consulship and would
damage my dignitas and auctoritas in Nova Roma, probably permanently;
we would lose quite a few good citizens when the dictatorship
was announced (on top of those leaving over actions on both sides
over the coup); and worst of all, I knew that Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, my co-consul and friend (though I realize that I lost
that honor by his actions and my actions in response), was to be
proscribed for attempting to circumvent the Constitution. Despite all
that, I called the vote. Nova Roma is more important than my dignitas
and auctoritas or that of any other citizen. As far as
losing citizens, well, we were already losing our best citizens
at an alarming rate. What made me hesitate but not decline to act
was loyalty to a friend, but this is not the place to bear my soul.
That is a consequence I will deal with privately. Nova Roma was
coming apart and there was no way to return to the pre-crisis status
quo. There was much acrimony and bitterness on all sides. Change and
stability had to come quickly if we were to stop Nova Roma from
hemorrhaging. Flavius Vedius Germanicus had offered himself as Dictator
to end the crisis. I accepted.
It was logical: he was not involved in the attempted
coup/impeachment, he was not a member of the Board of Directors who
shut down Nova Roma and he was a Founder of Nova Roma, and as such
he knew the Constitution and our system as it currently exists better
than anyone. He had definite ideas on how to fix it and was ready
to devote himself to the task. While I have had differences with
Germanicus in the past, his logic was inescapable and he was the
right man for the job. So far he has done a tremendous job. There
are things a dictator can do that it would take the ordinary
governmental system months to do. No debates, discussions, just do
it. That is the purpose of a dictator, to cut through everything in
an emergency and do what must be done. He is doing it. However, just
because he is a dictator does not mean he is alone. He has asked for
input from the magistrates and the Senate and People of Rome. He has
been receiving input and is using many of the good ideas he has
received. Being a dictator does not mean one is dictatorial and I do
not think he can be accused of that so far.
Many citizens have expressed their concern that having a
dictator means the end of Nova Roma as a republic. Let me assure the
citizens of Nova Roma that this is not the case at all.
The position of dictator is a *temporary* constitutional
position meant to see Nova Roma through times of crisis. Flavius
Vedius Germanicus did not want this position and he is anxious to
finish his task and step down again. In many ways a dictator
is advantageous--things can be done quickly without having to have
debates in the Senate, the Pontifical College or the Comtiae.
However, there is the trap of being too dependent on one person. A
focus on one person is a cult or an empire and while some outside
Nova Roma have accused us of being a cult, we are not. This is not what
Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus envisioned when
they formed Nova Roma and it is not what Flavius Vedius Germanicus
envisions now as Dictator. He has declared his intention to step down
around the 18th of this month (probably a few days later since the 18th
is an inauspicious day), thus setting an honorable precedent for
others to follow, if indeed this ever has to be done again, which I
pray it does not.
Let me conclude by making a request publicly of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus, Dictator. I ask that he consider restoring Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus to his seat in the Senate. This would go a long way
towards Pax and truly healing Nova Roma.
These last few weeks have been bitter ones for Nova
Roma. Some perspective is needed. It reminds me of the saying about
academia, that the fights are so bitter because the stakes are so low.
There is no money, glory or real power to be had in any position here.
Just a ton of email and the sense that maybe, just maybe, you are
furthering the cause of the Gods of Rome and the idea of Rome.
May the Gods of Rome guide our Republic.
In service to Rome,
Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma
The below is a response to comments in the message by the former Consul,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. What is written above was written prior to
that message and was about to be sent out when his post came in. Rather
than write another post, I have put my response here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contrary to what has been said, the attempted action or coup that
Lucius Equitius was involved in was not in any way Constitutional. There
was not then any mechanism by which magistrates could be removed from
office (there will be in the new system currently being set up by the
dictator). I have been told by several people involved in the plot,
including Lucius Equitius, that the action was only something that was
contemplated, that it would not really have been done and it would never
have seen the light of day--until someone privy to the plot revealed it.
Perhaps this is true. Lucius Equitius himself told me that he was
"sitting on the whole thing" because he knew that the work was nearly
completed. How did he know? Because he was helping us do it. He was
maintaining the citizens' list (thus he knew there was no backlog of
applications, contrary to what the "indictment" said) and answering
questions on how he thought things should be set up. At the same time
that he was doing that, however, he was involved in working on an
"indictment" of me and Cassius. He helped us openly while at the
same time, worked secretly against us.
The former consul has stated that the vote to appoint Flavius
Vedius was illegal by the Constitution. It was not illegal. It was held
on the Senate board and there is no Constitutional provision that states
the other consul or even all senators must be informed of a vote. (this
is another loophole that will be changed in the new system) It was
perhaps a bit deceptive, even underhanded to hold the vote the way we
did, I admit. That gave me pause when holding the vote. However, the
action the former consul was involved in was far from straightforward
and he is not in a position to criticize anyone on this point.
I admit to fault in the matter of the tribes in regards to lack of
communication. I did not inform the People or most of my fellow
magistrates regularly of what was being done. My former co-censor,
Marcus Cassius Iulianus knew, my quaestor Patricia Cassia of course knew
as did the former consul, Lucius Equitius, who was at the time my
co-consul. In addition, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, initially wrongfully
accused of being involved in the plot, knew some information because he
was in communication with Marcus Cassius about the tribes (this was
because it was an idea by Lucius Cornelius and Antoninus Gryllus that
inspired what we had planned to do with the tribes. That idea has been
somewhat modified and will be incorporated into the centuries). If I
had made regular updates to more people outside of this group then
perhaps this affair would not have been able to build up secretly. This
medium we use is notorious for fostering miscommunication or a downright
lack of communication.
Valete iterum,
Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma
--
“Non Scholae sed vitae discimus.”
Seneca
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collectible Artifacts |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:08:34 EDT |
|
I collect imperial coins.
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Statement on the Recent Crisis |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:20:37 EDT |
|
Salve, Decius Iunius Palladius!
I have read your statement on the recent crisis with mounting respect
and admiration. The choices you have had to make were difficult, the
decisions painful. The citizens of Nova Roma owe you a debt of gratitude.
Now that Germanicus' work nears it's completion let us build pax and
concordia. May the blessings of the gods descend on all Nova Roma.
SPQR!
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collectible Artifacts |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:47:18 EDT |
|
In a message dated 7/10/99 5:34:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:
<<
I was wondering how many people on the list are collectors of
ancient Roman artifacts-- coins, lamps, arrow points, etc.etc. ?
>>
Aside from dealing in such things as a business, (have a web page linked at
the Macellum, that will hopefully be updated later this month!) I also
collect them personally.
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Statement on the Recent Crisis |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:41:43 -0700 |
|
Of course nobody's consciences are bothering them. Of course not.
Vale.
Ericius
Decius Iunius Palladius wrote:
> From: Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> Other than announcing the appointment of Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> as Dictator, I have been silent on this list for quite awhile. I
> would just like to make a few comments on the events of the last
> few weeks and the reasons why I felt that it was necessary to appoint
> a dictator.
>
> The decision to convene the Senate for that express purpose
> was one of the hardest of my life and certainly the hardest one I have
> made in regards to Nova Roma. From a personal stand point, such an
> action I knew would not reflect well on my consulship and would
> damage my dignitas and auctoritas in Nova Roma, probably permanently;
> we would lose quite a few good citizens when the dictatorship
> was announced (on top of those leaving over actions on both sides
> over the coup); and worst of all, I knew that Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus, my co-consul and friend (though I realize that I lost
> that honor by his actions and my actions in response), was to be
> proscribed for attempting to circumvent the Constitution. Despite all
> that, I called the vote. Nova Roma is more important than my dignitas
> and auctoritas or that of any other citizen. As far as
> losing citizens, well, we were already losing our best citizens
> at an alarming rate. What made me hesitate but not decline to act
> was loyalty to a friend, but this is not the place to bear my soul.
> That is a consequence I will deal with privately. Nova Roma was
> coming apart and there was no way to return to the pre-crisis status
> quo. There was much acrimony and bitterness on all sides. Change and
> stability had to come quickly if we were to stop Nova Roma from
> hemorrhaging. Flavius Vedius Germanicus had offered himself as Dictator
> to end the crisis. I accepted.
> It was logical: he was not involved in the attempted
> coup/impeachment, he was not a member of the Board of Directors who
> shut down Nova Roma and he was a Founder of Nova Roma, and as such
> he knew the Constitution and our system as it currently exists better
> than anyone. He had definite ideas on how to fix it and was ready
> to devote himself to the task. While I have had differences with
> Germanicus in the past, his logic was inescapable and he was the
> right man for the job. So far he has done a tremendous job. There
> are things a dictator can do that it would take the ordinary
> governmental system months to do. No debates, discussions, just do
> it. That is the purpose of a dictator, to cut through everything in
> an emergency and do what must be done. He is doing it. However, just
> because he is a dictator does not mean he is alone. He has asked for
> input from the magistrates and the Senate and People of Rome. He has
> been receiving input and is using many of the good ideas he has
> received. Being a dictator does not mean one is dictatorial and I do
> not think he can be accused of that so far.
>
> Many citizens have expressed their concern that having a
> dictator means the end of Nova Roma as a republic. Let me assure the
> citizens of Nova Roma that this is not the case at all.
> The position of dictator is a *temporary* constitutional
> position meant to see Nova Roma through times of crisis. Flavius
> Vedius Germanicus did not want this position and he is anxious to
> finish his task and step down again. In many ways a dictator
> is advantageous--things can be done quickly without having to have
> debates in the Senate, the Pontifical College or the Comtiae.
> However, there is the trap of being too dependent on one person. A
> focus on one person is a cult or an empire and while some outside
> Nova Roma have accused us of being a cult, we are not. This is not what
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus envisioned when
> they formed Nova Roma and it is not what Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> envisions now as Dictator. He has declared his intention to step down
> around the 18th of this month (probably a few days later since the 18th
> is an inauspicious day), thus setting an honorable precedent for
> others to follow, if indeed this ever has to be done again, which I
> pray it does not.
>
> Let me conclude by making a request publicly of Flavius Vedius
> Germanicus, Dictator. I ask that he consider restoring Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus to his seat in the Senate. This would go a long way
> towards Pax and truly healing Nova Roma.
>
> These last few weeks have been bitter ones for Nova
> Roma. Some perspective is needed. It reminds me of the saying about
> academia, that the fights are so bitter because the stakes are so low.
> There is no money, glory or real power to be had in any position here.
> Just a ton of email and the sense that maybe, just maybe, you are
> furthering the cause of the Gods of Rome and the idea of Rome.
>
> May the Gods of Rome guide our Republic.
>
> In service to Rome,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma
>
>
> The below is a response to comments in the message by the former Consul,
> Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. What is written above was written prior to
> that message and was about to be sent out when his post came in. Rather
> than write another post, I have put my response here.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Contrary to what has been said, the attempted action or coup that
> Lucius Equitius was involved in was not in any way Constitutional. There
> was not then any mechanism by which magistrates could be removed from
> office (there will be in the new system currently being set up by the
> dictator). I have been told by several people involved in the plot,
> including Lucius Equitius, that the action was only something that was
> contemplated, that it would not really have been done and it would never
> have seen the light of day--until someone privy to the plot revealed it.
> Perhaps this is true. Lucius Equitius himself told me that he was
> "sitting on the whole thing" because he knew that the work was nearly
> completed. How did he know? Because he was helping us do it. He was
> maintaining the citizens' list (thus he knew there was no backlog of
> applications, contrary to what the "indictment" said) and answering
> questions on how he thought things should be set up. At the same time
> that he was doing that, however, he was involved in working on an
> "indictment" of me and Cassius. He helped us openly while at the
> same time, worked secretly against us.
>
> The former consul has stated that the vote to appoint Flavius
> Vedius was illegal by the Constitution. It was not illegal. It was held
> on the Senate board and there is no Constitutional provision that states
> the other consul or even all senators must be informed of a vote. (this
> is another loophole that will be changed in the new system) It was
> perhaps a bit deceptive, even underhanded to hold the vote the way we
> did, I admit. That gave me pause when holding the vote. However, the
> action the former consul was involved in was far from straightforward
> and he is not in a position to criticize anyone on this point.
>
> I admit to fault in the matter of the tribes in regards to lack of
> communication. I did not inform the People or most of my fellow
> magistrates regularly of what was being done. My former co-censor,
> Marcus Cassius Iulianus knew, my quaestor Patricia Cassia of course knew
> as did the former consul, Lucius Equitius, who was at the time my
> co-consul. In addition, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, initially wrongfully
> accused of being involved in the plot, knew some information because he
> was in communication with Marcus Cassius about the tribes (this was
> because it was an idea by Lucius Cornelius and Antoninus Gryllus that
> inspired what we had planned to do with the tribes. That idea has been
> somewhat modified and will be incorporated into the centuries). If I
> had made regular updates to more people outside of this group then
> perhaps this affair would not have been able to build up secretly. This
> medium we use is notorious for fostering miscommunication or a downright
> lack of communication.
>
> Valete iterum,
>
> Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma
>
> --
>
> “Non Scholae sed vitae discimus.”
>
> Seneca
>
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