Forum Romanum


Subject:	Lidi Apollonaris. Poetry Contest
From:	Pythia kingan@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:05:00 -0700

To the glory of sweet Apollo:

Standing,

by Pythia

There was a time when I wanted to be
With the birds: cumulus.
And I thought I could live in Atlantis, too.

But I live on hard ground, here with the trees,
And they appear, sometimes, shamefully unchanged.
And that is a fashionable lie.

No one has wings here, niether do I.
It is our nature to plow.
And water makes us drunken.

A vision of us as
Icarus among the birds.
Flying Dutchmen on the sea.

Earth; Chaos; Love:
Perhaps this is all we can say is ours.


Subject:	Re: Comment on the Screenplay Review: 'Gladiator'! (Short)
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:29:33 EDT

In a message dated 7/11/1999 10:47:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> write--------r>
<< A friend at work sent me this; I thought it'd be of interest to the
List... The screenplay sounds pretty cool; we'll see what Hollywood makes of
it. >>
Salvete!
Well, with the death of Oliver Reed in Malta, "Gladiator" hit a few snags,
and the release date pushed back.
Most the people I know that have worked on the film, says the sets are not
good, the armor fantastic, (most the inspiration comes from the third cent CE
lots of scale armor and Byzantine looking stuff.) The costume designer likes
the Sassanroman helmet, which of course is 150 years in the future. So don't
get your hopes up. BTW what draft was this review based? I understand there
was ten drafts before they got a shooting script.
Valete
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Ludi Apollinaris: Poetry Contest
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:00:03 EDT

Sowing The Seed

By Ryan of clann Walsh

VBI SEMEL RIXA ATRAX ERAT
ET AGRI APVD CRVVM TREXET

NVNC PLANITIES SMARGADVS SITVS ESSE
VBI LIBERI RIDETQVE LVDET

VBI SEMEL INGIS CAELI VIDIT CONTIGEREVIT
ET TERRA ADVREVIT

NVNC IMBERI LENI CONTIGERET
ET OMNE CONSECRARANT ILLVD OPERIRET

VBI CAPVT VIRI PRORSI
IN PVBLICVM PROPONEREVAT SVPER CLAVVM

FIDELIS VOCAT LVGERE
NVNC QVERCVS VALIDISSIMVS SUVGERET

ET POPVLI GAVDII NVTV VOCAT DONARE
ET HONORAT QVID VENI ANTE NOS

SEVERANT AGRI CVM MATERIAM
ILLVD VITAM DONAT

ET ARARERAT AGRI CVM ARIETE
CORVSCITE ILLVD AFFERE AD MORTEM

ITA VALIDVSQVE FIRMVS SEGES SOLI SAXSOSI
BELLATORI FORTISI ILLVD MORVIT ITA IAMDVDVM

DONAS VITAM DENVO
VITAM ILLORVM DONANT AD LEGATI NOSTRI
SINERETE NOS VITAM MOSTRAM AD ILLORVM

Where once figthing was fierce,
And the countryside was covered with blood...

Now lies an emerald plane
Where children laugh and play

When once it seemed the fire of Heven fell
And scorched the land...

Now gental showers fall
And bless all that it covers

Where the head of a fallen man
Posted upon a spike
Calls the faithful to morn....

Now stands a mighty oak
and beccons people to give joy
and honor those who came before us

They sowed the fields with the thing that gives life,
and plowed the fields with the gleaming edge that brings Death.

So strong and firm were the crops
Strongest is the tree rooted in rockiest soil.

The brave warriors that died so along ago
Gave life anew

Giving there life to our legacy
Let us give our life to theirs


Subject:	ATTENTION CIVES: Aedilship, Ludi Apolinaris, etc
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:12:11 +0100

Salvete omnes

I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus want to thank all those that contributed to the
Ludi Apollinaris, both to those that participated and to those that in some
other way gave their support for these Festivals, specially the members of
the Juri:
M--------s C--------us Juli-------- (Pontifex M--------us) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
Minervin--------cundi---------------- (Sen--------x) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=197166235078158233169057046077006239136144139046209" >p--------s--------ne@--------</--------;
Caius Marius Merullus (--------s) - <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Gn-------- T--------inius C--------r (civis) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------;
Quintus F--------s M--------us (civis) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;


Subject:	Ludi Apollinaris - Prose contest
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:22:35 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete, Aediles et omnes Quirites...

Attached is my entry for the Ludi Apollinares - Prose contest. A few
words on its origins are in order...

This little gem began life as my term paper for Western Civ I. Of
course, myself being a storyteller above all else, it came out not as a
term paper but as a story; and, myself having just returned from Desert
Storm a few months previous, it came out in the form of a front-line
interview with the troops by a reporter for a Roman newsmonthly.

I had originally planned it in three installments; this is only the
first...time and energy permitting, I will someday compose the other
two! >({|:-)

Enjoy...it's kinda long (24K), but hey.
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: ATTENTION CIVES: Aedilship, Ludi Apolinaris, etc
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:27:37 -0400

Salve!

> From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
> I also wanted to announce that I will start my holidays on next Wednsday,
> July 14th... And that I'm going to marry that same day. I thus ask for
your
> prayers, specially from the Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes, for Iuno was the
> Goddess of marriages.

Congratulations, that's wonderful news!!! Having just taken the plunge
myself last October, I can tell you that you're in for the most wonderful
(and harrowing) time of your life. Marriage is everything I hoped it would
be, and a lot more. Welcome to the ranks!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator


Subject:	Re: ATTENTION CIVES: Aedilship, Ludi Apolinaris, etc
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:34:44 +0100

Salve Dictator Germanice

>Congratulations, that's wonderful news!!! Having just taken the plunge
>myself last October, I can tell you that you're in for the most wonderful
>(and harrowing) time of your life. Marriage is everything I hoped it would
>be, and a lot more. Welcome to the ranks!

Thank you for your wishes, thank you!

Vale

Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Re: A New Citizen
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:49:18 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete, T Labiene Fortunate et Appia Claudia Labiena.

My congratulations to both of you! The birth of the first child is an
awesome event. It changes you forever. Enjoy!

Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius

At 12:48 PM 7/8/99 EDT, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246033014165012132015098190036129" >SDmtwi@--------</--------; wrote:
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246033014165012132015098190036129" >SDmtwi@--------</--------;
>
>Salvete,
> The gens Labiena is one member larger. Our first child, Prima
>Labiena Iulia, was born at 4:30 AM on Wednesday (Nonas Iulius) after a
>picture perfect three-hour labor. For those who like vital statistics, she
>weighs almost 9 lbs., and is a little over 21" tall (statuesque, like her
>mother). Both she and my wife, Appia Claudia Labieni, are doing extremely
>well. We're all very happy about her arrival - especially her grandparents,
>who are positively ecstatic. I'm especially pleased that the Gods chose to
>give our daughter to us on such an auspicious day, dedicated as it is to Iuno
>and women in general.
>
>Valete,
>T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
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World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius


Subject:	Antonio Graecus Marriage
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:55:34 -0400 (EDT)

My Friend;

I wish you every happiness in that institution;. 38 years ago I married
a lovely girl from the mountains of California and have never regretted
it a day or an hour. She has supported me in all that I do, and her
particular talents have brought prosperity, tenderness and love to our
union, and I would pray to my Gods that you should have the same good
fortune. Congratulations and all the best to you in your new life.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:12:07 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Nocturnia.

You're still all right in my book, kid, but now you see what false friends
you have found in Nova Roma.

Vale,
Martianus

At 05:55 AM 7/10/99 PDT, Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia wrote:
>From: "Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=243089020012185237172149141056243012000102196196128130152150" >a_i_c_nocturnia@--------</a>
>
>
>
>Salvete Quirites!
>
>As most of you are aware, Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I have been engaged
>since February, and a month ago I came over, from Britannia, to the United
>States to live with Sulla.
>
>However, in the course of that month circumstances have arisen and, to make
>a long story short, while we both still love each other and care for each
>other, I have decided to return to the UK.
>
>Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
>Materfamilias of the Plebeian Gens Iulia Caesaria
>
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
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The Martian Time Web Site
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Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:12:07 -0700 (PDT)


Subject:	Congratulazioni, Nonno!
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:27:40 -0700 (PDT)

Ciao!

Congratulazioni, Nonno Cincinnato!

A presto,
Martiano

>Lucius wrote:
>
> Also, I wanted to announce that Friday morning @ 1:28 am my eldest Daughter
> Bonita T Cope made me a Grandfather. Baby and mother are very well (sent
> home early from the hospital). Baby was 6lb 8oz
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius


Subject:	Re: Curule Aedile Appointment
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete, omnes.

This appointment is a no-brainer. Quintus Fabius Maximus is the master
gamester of Nova Roma. I congratulate him and welcome him as my colleague.

Ave Quintus Fabius Maximus, and let the games begin!

Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus

At 09:03 PM 7/11/99 -0400, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >
>Salvete!
>
>As he has been doing an excellent job assisting our Plebian Aedile in
>holding the on-line Games, I hereby appoint Quintus Fabius Maximus Curule
>Aedile. I trust holding this position will make easier the task he has
>undertaken to assist with the Games.
>
>I would also like to take this opportunity to announce that gens Fabia is
>hereby elevated to the ranks of the Patrician Order.
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Dictator
>
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
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Subject:	Re: Now about Rusticus...
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:57:29 EDT

In a message da--------7/11/99 1:52:38 PM Eas-------- Dayligh--------me, &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------br> writes:

<< Actually, I'm not; I've never been drunk yet. This sad fact is
really the great shame that I would like to confess. Any NR
citizen (except for Dexippus) that would like to undertake
the solemn duty of getting me piss-drunk, please speak up. >>

Ah c'mon Rusticus! You'll never know the difference! <smurk> Trust Me!!!!

--Dexippus
<<evil grin>>


Subject:	Re: ALL About Your Priestess
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:59:16 EDT

In a message dated 7/11/99 2:01:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< There you go Again! Spreading false rumors about yourself.Anybody who's
been around a few
months knows what you are really like.
>>

That's right...you found me out. I'm really straight. I just pretend to be
gay so I can lure girls into a false sense of security and then get them into
my apartment...get them drunk...and let them think they can try to "convert"
me. But all along is my plan for an easy lay! he he he! The evil straight
man Dexippus!

--D


Subject:	Marriage of Graecus
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:07:11 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete!

And I continue to express my congratulations, this time to Graecus on his
impending marriage!

Valete,
Martianus

At 01:12 PM 7/12/99 +0100, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete omnes
>
>I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus want to thank all those that contributed to the
>Ludi Apollinaris, both to those that participated and to those that in some
>other way gave their support for these Festivals, specially the members of
>the Juri:
>M--------s C--------us Juli-------- (Pontifex M--------us) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>Minervin--------cundi---------------- (Sen--------x) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=197166235078158233169057046077006239136144139046209" >p--------s--------ne@--------</--------;
>Caius Marius Merullus (--------s) - <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>Gn-------- T--------inius C--------r (civis) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------;
>Quintus F--------s M--------us (civis) - <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>From the current (and maybe still not complete) number of submissions I am
>now able to tell that these Games were a success.
>
>I also wanted to announce that I will start my holidays on next Wednsday,
>July 14th... And that I'm going to marry that same day. I thus ask for your
>prayers, specially from the Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes, for Iuno was the
>Goddess of marriages.
>At the same time I regret my departure in such a difficult time for Nova
>Roma. Believe me, my true wish was to continue my office during Summer.
>Unfortunately I can't.
>The offices I most regret not to fulfill are those of Tribunus Plebis and
>Senator.
>There are 2 Tribuni Plebis, me and Metelus... I publicly ask Metelus to have
>more participation on the public affairs, for NR really needs the Tribuni
>this time.
>
>As to my Aedilship affairs, Quintus Fabius Maximus is now Aedilis Curulis.
>As you know, Quintus F--------s M--------us (<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;) h--------een --------mport--------/font>
>implementor of the Roman Games, and I completely trust him. He will help to
>fulfill my job of Aedil while I am in holidays, and so, you should direct to
>him any questions, problems, ect. which concern Aedilship, most specially
>the Games.
>
>And speaking of the Games... I won't be present at the last stage of the
>Ludi Apollinaris. Once again Quintus Fabius Maximus shall take care of the
>last stages of this Sacred Festival. So, please, forward to him your
>submission to the Prose and Theatre contests.
>As for myself... I will not even know if I won any prize (very improbable
>though =)) until I return.
>
>I am here until July 13th. So, if you have any doubt, please ask me today.
>
>Valete
>
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Senator, Tribunus Plebis, Aedilis Plebis, Propraetor Lusitaniae
>
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-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
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Subject:	Re: Marriage of Graecus
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:10:45 +0100

Salvete omnes

I thank all of you for your wishes!! Once again I apologize for this
holidays.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Re: Provinciae in Europa
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:14:38 -0400

Salve!

> 1. I can not see there some important ancient Roman provinces which
> more or less exactely have their modern equvalents. I mean NORICUM,
> RAETIA, both MOESIAE, MACEDONIA and ILLYRICUM. Probably far away from
> Europe it seems to be the same, but I think we may respect the real
> historical bourders of the provinces. Simply, because Swiss is not

Our modern Nova Roman provinces, while they bear the names of the ancient
provinces (in some cases) aren't meant to be an exact reproduction of the
ancient Roman provinces. Frankly, there were just too many Roman provinces,
and we just don't have enough citizens (especially in Europe) to create them
all. It'd be an administrative nightmare, and we'd end up with dozens of
empty provinces.

> 2. I think it is not correct to establish provinces Transgermania and
> Transdacia as Polish, Whiterussians and balthic people (Lithuania,
> Latvia and Estonia) are not German (is it one more new attept to
> germanize them - the last one was 55 years ago?) and even in the ancient
> times these lands were not inhabited by Germans. They have their own
> ancient names, so why not to use them?

Once again, those are modern creations, and are not intended to reflect
their status during the Roman era. (I'll point out that "Transgermania" and
"Transdacia" mean "The land beyond Germania" and "The land beyond Dacia",
respectively; the names have nothing to do with the territories being German
or Dacian; just the opposite.) Just like our having a Southeast-US province
has nothing to do with the Confederacy; they are purely administrative
groupings and shouldn't be seen as anything more.

> 3. If Russia will be Asia Centralis, what a name will be suitable for
> real Central Asian republics as (from Kazachstan, Uzbekistane,
> Kirgizstan etc.). I am sure that Sarmatia was more suitable name for
> Russia and Scythia for Ukraine.

Hmmm... I do like Sarmatia for the name for the Russian province, but it
would likely have to be a catch-all for the whole of central Asia. Remember,
these are provinces for our administrative purposes, and until we get a
bunch of citizens in those areas, it doesn't make any sense to set up
independent provinces. (Naturally, as time goes on and new citizens come in,
new provinces can always be formed!)

> P.S. I would like to announce that I have established a list for east
> european NR citizens (and not only) and wellcome everyone who is
> interested to join in.The list is named VizantiaNR and is possibly to
> find it through onelist-search. Communicating language is free, so you
> can write in whatever language you want (it is another question if
> somebody would be able to reply, of course) and east-european languages
> are especially encouraged.

Terrific news! You might want to announce this on the main Nova Roma list.
It's always great to see people taking the initiative on things like this!

Thanks for your input; I'll definitely take your ideas on the naming of the
European provinces under advisement. (Scythia and Sarmatia especially!) I
hope I was able to help, if not, please feel free to write back.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator


Subject:	The Temple of Iuno Webpage
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:14:09 -0500

Salvete,

<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>

Valete


Subject:	Re: New Citizen
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:17:57 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

Please join me in welcoming the newest citizen of Nova Roma and new member of
Gens Luciania, Flavius Lucianus Diomus!

Ave Diomus!

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania


Subject:	Centuries
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:22:20 -0400

Salvete Omnes!

More good news. A system for dividing the citizenry into centuries has been
established. While in ancient times the centuries were weighted according to
age and wealth (with the older and wealthier citizens being placed in
smaller centuries, and thus being given more weight per vote), our modern
system rewards civic participation in the same way. Basically speaking, once
a year the censors will calculate where each citizen stands using a point
system, then allocate the citizens to centuries based on those points.

I'll be posting the official Lex Germania Centuriata later this week (I want
to do it as a law rather than building it into the Constitution, in order to
make it easier to change should the need arise), but here's the current
draft of the plan (comments are welcome):

LEX GERMANIA CENTURIATA

I. The voting citizenry of Nova Roma shall be divided by the censors into
193 centuries. These centuries shall be further divided into five classes,
as follows:
A. Class I shall have 55 centuries;
B. Class II shall have 47 centuries;
C. Class III shall have 39 centuries;
D. Class IV shall have 30 centuries;
E. Class V shall have 22 centuries.
II. The class to which a citizen belongs shall depend on his or her
participation in the public affairs of the State. Citizens who have shown a
greater commitment to public service shall be rewarded by placement in a
higher-ranked class.
A. The censors shall re-calculate the placement of citizens into their
respective centuries no later than the last day of November each year, and
new citizens shall be entered into their respective centuries as they join.
B. The record of public service of each citizen shall be quantified
according to the following schedule (points shall be awarded cumulatively,
but shall not carry over from year to year):

Points Awarded for…
10 Member of the patrician order
7 Member of the equestrian order
5 Member of the plebian order
20 Senate service, current
10 Senate service, past
20 Senior Magistrate (consul, censor, praetor), current
10 Junior Magistrate (all others), current
10 Senior Magistrate, past (each)
5 Junior Magistrate, past (each)
3 Ran for office unsuccessfully (each)
5 Governor, current
3 Governor, past (each; does not apply if currently holding same
governorship)
3 Citizen >6 months
2 Citizen 6-12 months
5 Citizen <12 months
10 Citizen <24 months
10 Citizen <36 months
10 Citizen <48 months
10 Citizen <60 months
20 Priest, current
10 Priest, past (does not apply if currently holding same priesthood)
10 Special appointed position, current (minimum)
5 Special appointed position, past (minimum)
? Other (special)

C. The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special
appointed positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on
behalf of the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the
appointment, and may not be awarded retroactively.
D. The entire list of citizens shall be divided as evenly as possible
into five classes, based on their accumulated points from the above
schedule, with those with higher point totals being enrolled in Class I and
those with the lowest point totally being enrolled in Class V.
E. Citizens within each class shall be divided as evenly as possible
among the centuries in that class.

Salvete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator


Subject:	Re: Provinciae in Europa
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:24:24 -0400

Salvete,

> Terrific news! You might want to announce this on the main Nova Roma list.
> It's always great to see people taking the initiative on things like this!

It's been a long morning. No sooner did I hit the "send" button than I
realized that he already _had_ sent it to the main list. *sigh*

Valete,

Germanicus


Subject:	Semper Fidelis
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:24:20 -0700 (PDT)

All the less reason for me to abandon her!

I remember what it was like to be 17. More than that, I now have a
17-year-old son, who has just dropped out of high school, who is about to
move out of his mother's house, who struggles with depression, who in eight
years has never been able to bring himself to so much as write a letter to
me. Yet I talk to him on the phone every week or so. Yes, 17-year-olds
make some very poor decisions on occasion... is this news?

We stand by the ones we love, or we are not truly their family, and we are
not truly their friends. I sympathize with both Nocturnia and Sulla.

Martianus

At 08:16 AM 7/12/99 -0500, Don and Crys Meaker wrote:
>On 12 Jul 99, at 6:12, Gail and Thomas Gangale wrote:
>
>> From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>>
>> Salve, Nocturnia.
>>
>> You're still all right in my book, kid, but now you see what false friends
>> you have found in Nova Roma.
>>
>> Vale,
>> Martianus
>>
>>
>
>Before you get too weepy eyed, you might want to know the
>mental history behind this 'child'. She is not well. She found no
>false friends. She was the false friend. And has refused treatment
>so she will unlikely ever get well.
>
>Damn shame.
>
>Crys
>
>
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius


Subject:	Holidays Updated
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:34:19 -0500

Salvete,

The updated Calendar (<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>)

<><><><><><><><>

The Kalends of every month is sacred to Iuno as well as the year
as a whole.

March --

1--Kalendae March and the Matronalia

June--This entire month is sacred to Iuno

July--

1--Kalendae March (sacred to Felicitas, a personification of Iuno)

7--Nonas July -- Nonae Caprotinae (the Fig Festival) -- Ancillarum
Feriae (dedicated to Iuno Caprotina)

September--

13--Idus September (sacred to the Capitoline Triad)

October--

7--Nonas October (sacred to Iuno and Iupiter) and Festival for Juno
Sororia

10--Sacred to Juno Moneta

November--

13--Idus November (sacred to Feronia, a terrestrial goddess of
fertility often identified as Iuno, she represents Penty or
Aundance)

January--

1--Kalendae Januariae and the Festival of Iuno

February-- (the entire month is sacred to Iuno and Mars)

1--Sacred to Juno Sospita Mater Regina

13 thru 21--The Parentalia (the Temple will be closed)

<><><><><><><><><><>

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:36:45 EDT

In a message dated 7/12/99 10:21:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes:

<< Basically speaking, once
a year the censors will calculate where each citizen stands using a point
system, then allocate the citizens to centuries based on those points. >>

So, not to sound biting, but is this like "club" points where members are
watched and judged accordingly?

Or is the next stage using the points to determine who is patrician and who
is plebian? (this was a discussion/debate sometime ago).

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Curule Aedile Appointment
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:49:13 -0400

Salvete, omnes.
>
>This appointment is a no-brainer. Quintus Fabius Maximus is the master
>gamester of Nova Roma. I congratulate him and welcome him as my colleague.
>
>Ave Quintus Fabius Maximus, and let the games begin!
>
>Valete,
>Marcus Martianus Gangalius
>Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
>
Etiam, Quinte Fabi Maxime , Macte virtute esto,gratulationis!

Valete, Lucius Equitius

>>Salvete!
>>
>>As he has been doing an excellent job assisting our Plebian Aedile in
>>holding the on-line Games, I hereby appoint Quintus Fabius Maximus Curule
>>Aedile. I trust holding this position will make easier the task he has
>>undertaken to assist with the Games.
>>
>>I would also like to take this opportunity to announce that gens Fabia is
>>hereby elevated to the ranks of the Patrician Order.
>>
>>Valete,
>>
>>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>>Dictator


Subject:	Re: Semper Fidelis
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:51:51 -0400

Salvete,

>From: Gail and Thomas Gangale <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
>All the less reason for me to abandon her!
>
>I remember what it was like to be 17. More than that, I now have a
>17-year-old son, who has just dropped out of high school, who is about to
>move out of his mother's house, who struggles with depression, who in eight
>years has never been able to bring himself to so much as write a letter to
>me. Yet I talk to him on the phone every week or so. Yes, 17-year-olds
>make some very poor decisions on occasion... is this news?
>
Not to me. I too have adolescent children who need me to stand by them
despite the unwise decisions they have made and will make. In questions of
health, we must do everything we can for them, there is no question.

Valete, L Equitius Flamen Martialis
Mars nos protegis

>We stand by the ones we love, or we are not truly their family, and we are
>not truly their friends. I sympathize with both Nocturnia and Sulla.
>Martianus
>


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:57:58 -0400

Salve,

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 7/12/99 10:21:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes: >
> << Basically speaking, once
> a year the censors will calculate where each citizen stands using a point
> system, then allocate the citizens to centuries based on those points. >>
>
> So, not to sound biting, but is this like "club" points where members are
> watched and judged accordingly?
>
> Or is the next stage using the points to determine who is patrician and
who
> is plebian? (this was a discussion/debate sometime ago).

Good question, and one that we've been wrestling with for a while. While it
could very well seem like "club points", it's really intended to merely be a
way of quantifying participation (some sort of subjective system where the
censors just stick people in classes would be just hideous, and who'd want
to vote on all 300+ citizens' placement in the classes?) One of the reasons
I'm doing it as a Lex rather than putting it directly in the Constitution is
to give us flexibility should we want to update the system; award points for
different activities, etc.

At this stage, I'm for keeping the patrician/plebian break in place as-is.
For the most part, the division is ceremonial (and religious); I'd much
rather reward contribution to Nova Roma with a smidge more influence in the
election process.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator


Subject:	Re: Semper Fidelis
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:23:35 -0500

On 11 Jul 99, at 9:09, Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:

> Her
> parents don't feel I have done anything wrong.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Praetor Urbanus et Senator

I have seen the emails from her father. He knows his daughter was
mentally ill and hoped for the best. He wanted her to get help.
You, Sulla tried to get her help. You called us when you got off of
work. I also talked to Nicola and all seemed well. She
didn't/doesn't want help.

Shame that because you are the male and the elder in the
relationship you get all the blame. You tried, and you got slapped
in the face.

I understand English Mental Health leaves a bit to be desired. And
it sounds like Nicola will never seek the help she needs.

I wonder if that is your fault too.

Crys


Subject:	Re: Semper Fidelis
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:28:27 -0400

Salve, Lucius et alii

Oh, you got me wrong I think. I was just commenting that I understood
something about young people. I feel badly that this has happened for all
concerned. I hope that this can be straighten out, but such a move was a big
step for anyone. Moving tousands of miles from familiy, the prospect of
being married all this would stress anyone.

Valete, L Equitius Cincinnatus
Consul et Senator

>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>Well, let me comment, that I did try to get her help....<SNIP>. Him
>and I have been communicating consistently during this up til this morning.
Her
>parents don't feel I have done anything wrong.
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Praetor Urbanus et Senator
>
>>
>> Salvete,
>> >All the less reason for me to abandon her!
>> >
>> >I remember what it was like to be 17.<SNIP>Yes, 17-year-olds
>> >make some very poor decisions on occasion... is this news?
>> >
>> Not to me. I too have adolescent children who need me to stand by them
>> despite the unwise decisions they have made and will make. In questions
of
>> health, we must do everything we can for them, there is no question.
>>
>> Valete, L Equitius Flamen Martialis
>> Mars nos protegis
>>
>> >We stand by the ones we love, or we are not truly their family, and we
are
>> >not truly their friends. I sympathize with both Nocturnia and Sulla.
>> >Martianus


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:49:39 EDT

In a message dated 7/12/99 11:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes:

<< At this stage, I'm for keeping the patrician/plebian break in place as-is.
For the most part, the division is ceremonial (and religious); I'd much
rather reward contribution to Nova Roma with a smidge more influence in the
election process. >>

Ok...but this also means that centuries would change from year to year
depending on citizens' involvement. Surely someone who does a lot of
participation this year, may not do the same ammount of participation next
year or vice versa. Are the censors prepared for this?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Why are they called "Conscript Fathers"
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:55:38 -0500

A while back a message was sent which refered to the Senators
as Conscript Fathers. Something about now that representitives of
the plebs were there that term could be used,,,,';

Why so? In what sense are the Senators Conscripts?

Don of
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:07:19 -0400

Salve,

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> Ok...but this also means that centuries would change from year to year
> depending on citizens' involvement. Surely someone who does a lot of
> participation this year, may not do the same ammount of participation next
> year or vice versa. Are the censors prepared for this?

True, but it's only once a year. I think that if the censors keep up with
things as they happen (which already happens now, by the way-- there are
places in the database to track offices held, etc; we'd just need to make
sure to be conscientious about keeping it up-to-date) it shouldn't be too
bad.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator


Subject:	Re: Why are they called "Conscript Fathers"
From:	heckifiknow@--------)
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:23:05 +0200

Salve,

the expression patres conscripti comes from the time ( that is what most
people think at least, for it is not totally clear and certain), when
plebeians were allowed to join the formally exclusivly patrician
senatus. That was in the early republic around the fifth century BC.

Vale
Lucius Metellus


Subject:	Re: New Citizen
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:41:55 -0400

Ave Diome

Laetus sum gentem Lucianiam coloriferem crescentem videns Civitas pacem et
felicitiatem tibi praeferat plus miliis non volutarum epistularum

I'm happy to see the most colorful gens, Luciania, growing. May your
citizenship in NR bring you peace and happiness on top of the thousands of
unwanted messages.

Vale

C Marius Merullus

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>Salvete Omnes,
>
>Please join me in welcoming the newest citizen of Nova Roma and new member
of
>Gens Luciania, Flavius Lucianus Diomus!
>
>Ave Diomus!
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Paterfamilias, Gens Luciania


Subject:	Re: Re: New Citizen
From:	Diomus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:56:03 EDT

In a message dated 7/12/99 1:50:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

<< Ave Diome

Laetus sum gentem Lucianiam coloriferem crescentem videns Civitas pacem et
felicitiatem tibi praeferat plus miliis non volutarum epistularum

I'm happy to see the most colorful gens, Luciania, growing. May your
citizenship in NR bring you peace and happiness on top of the thousands of
unwanted messages.

Vale

C Marius Merullus >>

Thank you Merullus. I am sure that my citizenship to NR will bring
me peace and happiness And as far as some of those unwahted messages
go....I think that I'm learning to just skip over them. Thanks again.

Vale

Flavius Lucianus Diomus


Subject:	Centuries
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:03:17 -0400

Salvete Dictator Flavi Vedi et alii

>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >
>
>More good news. A system for dividing the citizenry into centuries has been
>established.

Good news indeed. Thank you.

While in ancient times the centuries were weighted according to
>age and wealth (with the older and wealthier citizens being placed in
>smaller centuries, and thus being given more weight per vote), our modern
>system rewards civic participation in the same way. Basically speaking,
once
>a year the censors will calculate where each citizen stands using a point
>system, then allocate the citizens to centuries based on those points.
>
>I'll be posting the official Lex Germania Centuriata later this week (I
want

Wouldn't it be something like Lex Vedia Centuriata/de Centuriis according to
Republican Roman tradition?

>draft of the plan (comments are welcome):

Of course I have a couple.
>
>LEX GERMANIA CENTURIATA
>
>I. The voting citizenry of Nova Roma shall be divided by the censors into
>193 centuries. These centuries shall be further divided into five classes,
>as follows:
> A. Class I shall have 55 centuries;
> B. Class II shall have 47 centuries;
> C. Class III shall have 39 centuries;
> D. Class IV shall have 30 centuries;
> E. Class V shall have 22 centuries.

>
> Points Awarded for…
> 10 Member of the patrician order
> 7 Member of the equestrian order

I suggest making membership in the equestrian order worth 10 points. How
many equites are there now? To become one requires action on the part of
the civis that is bound to benefit the Republic, so it seems like we should
encourage it in as many ways as possible.

> 3 Citizen >6 months
> 2 Citizen 6-12 months
> 5 Citizen <12 months
> 10 Citizen <24 months
> 10 Citizen <36 months
> 10 Citizen <48 months
> 10 Citizen <60 months

This part above I don't understand at all. You get 3 points if you have
been a citizen more than 6 months, ok, but you get 10 points if you have
been one for less than 24 months? Then more points, because you have been a
citizen less than 36 months? Should it not be more like this?

3 Citizen >6 months
5 Citizen 6-12 months
6 Citizen >12, <24months
7 Citizen >24, <36 months
8 Citizen >36, <48 months
9 Citizen >48, <60 months
10 Citizen >60 months

> 20 Priest, current
> 10 Priest, past (does not apply if currently holding same priesthood)
> 10 Special appointed position, current (minimum)
> 5 Special appointed position, past (minimum)
> ? Other (special)
>
> D. The entire list of citizens shall be divided as evenly as possible
>into five classes, based on their accumulated points from the above
>schedule, with those with higher point totals being enrolled in Class I and
>those with the lowest point totally being enrolled in Class V.

Please explain the impact of classes vs. centuries. Based on Roman
tradition and the previous constitution, I anticipate that votes in the
centuriate assembly will be counted on a "by century" basis, perhaps by an
elected speaker. Will the centuries' votes then be pooled by class, such
that the majority of centuries within each class will determine the vote of
the entire class? Or is the system to be something else?

> E. Citizens within each class shall be divided as evenly as possible
>among the centuries in that class.
>
>Salvete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Dictator
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Temple Linking
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:20:31 -0500

The Temple of Juno has links in place for The Temple of Dionysos
and The Temple of Apollo.

I cannot find the addy for the Temple of Iuppiter, could someone
please pass it along.

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>


Subject:	Re: Temple Linking
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:22:35 EDT

Salve,

Temple of Juppiter, www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS...

Vale
Caesar


Subject:	Re: Temple Linking
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:26:40 -0400

Salvete,

I cannot find the addy for the Temple of Iuppiter, could someone
please pass it along.

Temple of Iuppiter
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/</a>

Valete, L Equitius F Martialis


Subject:	Re: Temple Linking
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:53:01 -0500

OK, Temple to Iuppiter is up.

Gangalius, is your temple down? What is the addy?

And anyone else with an online temlpe, please email me their
addresses so I can link them all together.

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:08:53 -0400

Salvete

>> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>>
>> Ok...but this also means that centuries would change from year to year
>> depending on citizens' involvement. Surely someone who does a lot of
>> participation this year, may not do the same ammount of participation
next
>> year or vice versa. Are the censors prepared for this?
>
>True, but it's only once a year. I think that if the censors keep up with
>things as they happen (which already happens now, by the way-- there are
>places in the database to track offices held, etc; we'd just need to make
>sure to be conscientious about keeping it up-to-date) it shouldn't be too
>bad.>Vale,Flavius Vedius Germanicus

Right, they didn't do their job as it is and you want to add more?
What a convenient way to sidestep their responsibility, appoint you
dictator, but I vetoed it. Palladius tried to bring a vote to the Senate but
I vetoed it.

<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/constitution.html</a>
"Article III: Magistrates
2.Two Consuls shall be elected, and shall be the highest-ranking magistrates
in Nova Roma. Each Consul shall have the following powers:
1.holding Imperium;
2.veto over the actions of his or her fellow Consul, and over the actions of
lesser magistrates; ...

Article V: The Senate
2.The Senate shall be convened by one or both of the serving Consuls. Until
officially convened..."

I vetoed the action of convening the Senate to vote for a Dictator.

Cassius locked me out of the Senate that was the Coup d'etat,
Face the Truth.

If one or both of the Censores were to resign, I would propose that the
Senate appoint you as a Censor. You would do the job well. This is all any
of us have wanted, for the job to get done. Nothing personal. In the mean
time they should do there constitutionally mandated duty.

"Article IV: The Comitiae and Elections
1.The comitia populi is convened by either a Consul or Praetor Urbanis.
<snip> It shall be made up of thirty tribes, the composition of which shall
be determined by the Censors, ...
2.The comitia centuriata is convened by a Consul. <snip>It shall be made up
of one hundred and eighteen centuries, the composition of which shall be
determined by the Censors, ...
3.The comitia plebis is convened by a Tribune of the Plebs. <snip>It shall
be made up of thirty five tribes, the composition of which shall be
determined by the Censors, ..."

If we are to ever have a Republic we have to work together, not have a
Dictator whenever things are not working because some are not doing their
jobs. We have had people resign because they knew that they could not
continue and they were replaced, no big deal.

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Consul et Senator


Subject:	All the Temples in one place?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:08:37 -0500

Salvete,

If anyone is interested I am willing to put everyones temples up on
my webspace. I have 20 meg total and am using, right now only 1
or 1.5 for the Sodalis Pro Infantia.

The addy will be changing as I have decided to give up the domain
name.

Whoever is agreeable let me know. There will, obviously, be no
charge. It would just be nice to see all these Temples on the same
hill, if you will.

Vale,

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>


Subject:	Re: Temple Linking
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:16:20 -0400

Salvete,

Gangalius, is your temple down? What is the addy?

AEDES MARTIVS
MMDCCLI AVC
M MARTIANVS GANGALIVS FECIT

<a href="http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfr" target="_top" >http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfr</a>
m.htm?

You must add the ? mark at the end

Valete, L Equitius F Martialis


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:20:08 EDT

I think there should be links to the on-line temples from the
Religio/Pantheon page on the website. That's what they're there for, right?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: Temple Linking
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:26:18 -0500

On 12 Jul 99, at 15:16, Lucius wrote:

> You must add the ? mark at the end

I did that, still nothin

Crys


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:31:16 EDT

In a message dated 7/12/99 12:08:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> writes:

Salve,
<< Whoever is agreeable let me know. There will, obviously, be no
charge. It would just be nice to see all these Temples on the same
hill, if you will.>>
The Temple to Mars is still up and running,
www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfrm.htm
(Crys...no 'l' on the end...htm not html:)

The Temple to Castor et Pollux is also up, but as said, not finished
yet...www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Temple.html...

I think getting all of the Temples 'on the same hill' is a wonderful idea,
I'll add all the links to my page as well. And I agree with you Dexippus,
there should be links to all the Temples of the pantheon page, but only Mars
Temple is there...

Vale,
Caesar


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:34:40 EDT

Salve,

Sorry:), scratch that on the Mars addy...don't know what's up there. The link
on the NR page works, but the addy doesn't.

Vale


Subject:	Re: ALL About Your Priestess
From:	"Rusticus" moman@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:45:41 -0400

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173176014213196180024200097115114253071048139" >JimmyG1970@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] ALL About Your Priestess

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173176014213196180024200097115114253071048139" >JimmyG1970@--------</--------;
>
> Rusticus,
>
> Once again sarcasm is the result of a weak mind. Is a site of continual
> bickering or can possible ask a question w/o worrying about my dignatas.
>
> Gaius Severus Marius

Oh, but humor is the result of a limber mind!
When one has neither sarcasm nor humor, the
result is a mind strong but brittle. How many
lovely days shall we have the pleasure of your
company before yours has burst into flinders?

Rusticus


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:53:01 -0500

On 12 Jul 99, --------5:31, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------; wrote:

> The Temple to Mars is still up and running,
> www2.crosswinds.net/san-francisco/~marsultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfrm.htm
> (Crys...no 'l' on the end...htm not html:)
>

Now that's what I'M talkin 'bout!! I have now added the Temple to
Mars (and damn near had to go there to get there <G>)

> The Temple to Castor et Pollux is also up, but as said, not finished
> yet...www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Temple.html...
>

It's up too.

> I think getting all of the Temples 'on the same hill' is a wonderful idea,
> I'll add all the links to my page as well. And I agree with you Dexippus,
> there should be links to all the Temples of the pantheon page, but only
> Mars Temple is there...
>
> Vale,
> Caesar

Maybe someone could update it a smidge?? No space from my
server <G>.

Crys

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:55:53 EDT

I'm just curious (as someone not so technically inclined) about how does one
go about creating an online temple or other sort of homepage?

I would assume there is a charge for a host ISP and some "know-how" with html.

If anyone cares to share or offer advice....?

--Dexippus


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:14:01 -0500

On 12 Jul 99, --------5:55, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

>
> I'm just curious (as someone not so technically inclined) about how does
> one go about creating an online temple or other sort of homepage?
>
> I would assume there is a charge for a host ISP and some "know-how" with
> html.
>
> If anyone cares to share or offer advice....?
>
> --Dexippus

Go to <a href="http://www.drak.net" target="_top" >http://www.drak.net</a> (or com or something like that<G>) -- I
think they offer 10 megs no ads no nothin. AND they're Pagan
owned. Support your own!!

My temple is at <a href="http://www.delphi.com" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com</a> .. I wanted a chatroom and
a message board and they offer a webpage, but it seems a bit
limited. I'll see. I might move the Webpage to my own server
(which is also Pagan owned, btw ... 20 meg for 12 bucks a month).

Dex, if you want, I think I might be able to get some time and help
ya. We ARE husband and wife after all!!!!!!

Crys (lettin the cat outta the bag --- I'm a bigamist!!! <G>)


Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:19:25 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes...

Crys, I must ask: Why are you making such a big deal out of this? A
teenage girl leaves home, family, and country to be with the man she
loves; and realizes, a month later, that while she does not love him
any less, her decision might have been just a wee bit premature...a
thing several of us had said to her at the time. Fortunately (and
unlike most of Life's 'bad calls'), the thing's not irreversible, so
she very sensibly goes home again.

I'm not really interested in what the chemical balance in her brain was
at the time--that was still, I think, a sound decision, one that
displays wisdom, maturity, and no small amount of courage. Would that
all the 'normal' (non-crazy) people were so capable of honest
self-assessment!

What I don't understand is: Where, in all of this, is there room--or
call--for the type of character-assassination job that you (previously
a trusted intimate) saw fit to pull on Nocturnia? Where do you get off
even *considering* violating her confidence by divulging the contents
of her e-mails to you, or her IM transcripts?

I also fail to understand where any of what you've 'revealed' is really
Nova Roma's business. Just because you yourself saw fit to impose upon
us the details of your reproductive process (and many here are *still*
saying they wish you hadn't), does that mean everyone on the List needs
to be that transparent in order to be okay in your book? There are
close-knit families in this country where *finances* (let alone
personal biology) are considered a private matter. Share what you feel
you must, Crys, but don't start any melodramatics about how we're not a
family anymore just because others here have a somewhat more expansive
notion of 'personal space'.

Gossip, scandalmongering, slander, now blackmail--what next, Crys?
Who's been betrayed now? As if you yourself had never made a 'bad
call'? As if you yourself were not still living with the results?

You're right, karma *is* a bitch.

[List Moderator, I stand ready to take my penalty.]
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends


Subject:	Re: Collectible Artifacts
From:	"Keith Seddon" K.H.S@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:10:36 +0100

Greetings:

I live just a few miles from the British Roman city of Verulamium, and I
visit the site (a public park) and the museum as frequently as I can.

Years ago, at a little booth selling tickets to see the ruins of the
theatre, they were selling little pieces of broken roof tile (orange
terracotta), and I bought two pieces.

Live with honour,

L. Gellius Severus

----------
> From: Dean Troy <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Subject: [novaroma] Collectible Artifacts
> Date: 10 July 1999 10.34.pm
>
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
>
> I was wondering how many people on the list are collectors of
> ancient Roman artifacts-- coins, lamps, arrow points, etc.etc. ?
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Are you? If not, see our homepage for details.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject:	Re: Re: Announcement
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:12:33 EDT

Sorry...I've been deleting all these messages because...well...105 e-mails a
day is a bit much.

But what's this I hear? Nocta is regretting her decision to come to the
states?

What's up honey?

Sulla or Nocta...If you need to talk, Auntie Dexie is here...and I won't post
anything on the main list that is spoken to me in confidence.

--Dexippus


Subject:	Personal privacy
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:38:59 EDT

Salvete omnes,

While I do not want to get into the middle of this, as a mental health
professional I think it only fair to point out that some of you have
taken upon yourself to publically post a lot of unfavorable and
potentially damaging allegations about a young lady's personal life and
her mental health. You need to stop and think about what you're doing, if
not for her sake, then for the sake of these points:

1) You are making yourselves liable for civil litigation for what you are
posting about her private life,

2) You might be opening yourselves up to criminal prosecution under U.S
Federal laws relating to disclosure of confidential information without
the consent of the person involved,

3) You may be entangling the organization responsible for this mailing
list (Nova Roma) in the possible legal problems you could be getting
yourselves into. If we don't still have a magistrate monitoring the list,
then perhaps the Dictator should dictate something about this before Nova
Roma gets pulled into something?

Please don't anybody bother to respond to this with threats and rants,
because they'll just be deleted.

For everybody's sake, I suggest that you keep Nocta's private business
private. It doesn't belong here -- this is a public forum.

Valete,

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Face the Truth - or fear too much?
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:04:37 -0400

Salvete omnes,

Rather belatedly ...

Cincinnatus is understandably aggrieved by his treatment.

However, if actions speak louder than words, they should certainly speak
louder than suspicions. Germanicus' actions as Dictator apart from the
exclusion of Cincinnatus have been actions which will tend to stabilise NR
and create the conditions for citizens to have confidence in it and for
progress in the development of the Religio. This should outweigh suspicions
derived from the past.

Germanicus has reported that inter alia a new relationship between NR and
the NR Corporation is being set up; presumably the details will be put
before us and will include appropriate conveyances of the relevant
intellectual property to the Corporation, which would then act as trustee
for the purposes of NR. Germanicus' behaviour in his announced decisions to
date is not consistent with the picture painted by Cincinnatus' email of
someone who means to keep control of NR come what may, since the decisions
tend to spread power and authority wider in the Res Publica.

Valete,

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister


Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:04:33 -0400

Rather belatedly ... (I've been off-line for a few days as one of my
daughters & her boyfriend came to visit, & found hundreds of NR messages
waiting)

1) I think there is a difference between announcing in the Forum both happy
events (births, engagements and marriages) and sad events (deaths,
illnesses, divorces and relationship break-downs) to share these with our
fellow-citizens, and launching attacks in the Forum on fellow-citizens'
conduct of their personal/ romantic lives. The first is both roman and
religious; the second is defamation or, in roman law, iniuria.

2) In any event it is unwise to take sides, except in extreme cases, in
other people's relationship break-ups. The odds are that neither party will
thank you ...

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister


Subject:	Re: ALL About Your Priestess
From:	JimmyG1970@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:00:23 EDT

Rusti

i'm sorry u think that I don't have a sense of humour. Just because I may not
appreciate yours is no cause to such things that is of course unless u have
the corner marjet on comedy.

Gaius Severus Marius


Subject:	Re: Personal privacy
From:	JimmyG1970@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:20:29 EDT

Salve! and may the Gods be praised!

My fair L. Sergius Aust., at last we have a voice of reason. I have been
advocating all along that this should be a forum of Res Publica and my
brother Antoninus agrees. Far be it from me to insult or impunge my elders
but the Republic has grown from the original 35. I wish to share and discuss
information relating to our glorious Republic and its history. I don't mind
sharing personal info but that is why one soul can e-mail anothers e-mail
address.

As far as Roman history being full of gossip, that's true but that is pretty
much all that survived the barbarian incursions. I'm sure our glorious
forefathers would not to be pleased at what we call their history. It's as
if we were all obliterated and the National Enquirer and maybe the World Book
Encyclopedia were left behind to describe our Era. What would history us to
be except a bunch of narcissitic sex-crazed individuals! So I think the
Roman history is gossip arguement doesn't hold water. I concur with your
assement and our honorable Dictator should making some sort of
pronouncement. My gens and everyone else should be able to abide by whatever
the honorable Germanicus rules.

Vale! and may the Gods be praised!

Gaius Severus Marius


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:50:05 -0700 (PDT)

--- Don and Crys Meaker &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> wrote:
> > I think getting all of the Temples 'on the same hill' is a wonderful idea,
> > I'll add all the links to my page as well. And I agree with you Dexippus,
> > there should be links to all the Temples of the pantheon page, but only
> > Mars Temple is there...
> Maybe someone could update it a smidge?? No space from my
> server <G>.

I've been doing just that, both on my Tholos site and on Hellenion.

Hellenion's is more up to date. Check out my list at

<a href="http://pagan.drak.net/hellenion/temples.html" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/hellenion/temples.html</a>

:)

Valete et khairete,

-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia

===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar/Andreia *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-


Subject:	Re: ALL About Your Priestess
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:59:58 GMT

Salve F. Lucius Domius

I, for one, have no plans to air my togas in the forum. Clean or dirty.:)

Vale

Cypria


Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:03:56 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

In regard to the discussion of personal views and personal vignettes of
a person uffering some kind of health problem is not only not iwise from
a leagal standpoint , but is alo not wise from the standpoint of the
sufferer.

I ask that you strongly consider the words of Merrullus and Australicus
as they are wise ones and they strike to the heart of the matter. I a
too grieve for th members of my NR family and have told the princples so
in private E-Mails. Beyond that there is little anyone can except offer
support quietly and in friendship.

In regard to personal revelations of a negative sort, I find them
offensive. If you wre a felon and have paid your debt to society, and I
felt that you were worth knowing, I really do not care about your
background. Mercifully, most states in the U.S. have laws sealing the
records of youthful transgressions made in haste, anger, or fits of
depression. Those laws allow the offender to get another start. They
are a excellent idea, and many that I know thank God for their
enactment. Public discussion of such transgressions can only bring pain
and further rebellion. This was a lesson learned let those involved get
over their agony, and get on with their lives. I most humbly ask that
we turn ur thoughts to the more productive of NR's needs, as there are
certainly enough f them to choose from.

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:24:26 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Dictator Germanicus;

Sir, in regard to the work-load that you plan for the updating of points
and maintenance of the NR list, I ask your leave to comment. I have
recently been in correspodence with both esteemed Censors, and they
indicate that the Censors job in all aspects can virtually be a full
time task on occasion. With vacation, illness, family, and work
considerations, the job which is already time-consuming may be
impossible to keep up with. Apparently it proved so in the recent past,
and although the Censors were working at their resposibilities, they
were unable to keep ahead of the administrative input. I mean no
criticism or disrespect here, but it seems to me that some sort of
clearace desk of the sort that a Cornicularius Praetor or Legati would
be in charge of may be a consideration. It is my further understanding
that the Cemsores has requested administrative assistance in the past.

I most respectfully forward this idea for your consideration.

Vale, Distator Germanicus;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Re: New Citizen
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:31:30 -0400 (EDT)

Flavius Lucianus Diomus;

Welcome to Nova Roma!! There are many very nice people in our citizen
list, and a lot of things to do, see, and to develop. Get acquainted,
look around and getinterested in what we do. If you have any questions
do not hesitate to ask.
Once aain welcome to our icro-nation.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:33:04 EDT

In a message dated 7/12/1999 6:24:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< Cornicularius Praetor or Legati would
be in charge of may be a consideration. It is my further understanding
that the Censors has requested administrative assistance in the past.
>>
Salvete!
Marvelous idea Marcus Minucius! Such an office would be a great help to the
Censors, who are overworked and under appreciated in Rome right now.
Flavius Vedius, please add my voice to Marcus Minucius' request.
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus
Curule Aedile


Subject:	temples and founders..lend me your ears
From:	"Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" darth_vilmur@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:54:21 -0700

to all of those who have founded temples to the roman gods...
i would very much like to see a web ring of temples founded, but i think
we should all pow wow on format and restrictions...one idea i have is a
common chat room shared by all temples, what do you think.
californius
temple of juppiter <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS</a>
also for dexipus..if you like i can send you a list of free servers who
will host your web site.


Subject:	A few more thoughts.
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:18:19 -0700

Avete Omnes,

The following are a few general comments. The phrasing may be inexact or
inelegant, but they are my words.

Primus: M. Mucius Scaevola's commentary on F. Vedius's work so far as
Dictator, vis a vis the comments of others is well taken. Again I ask on
this matter, let be...

Secondus: We're going through some growing pains here, there's going to be
hurt feelings, stepped on toes, bruised egos and the like. In military
parlance, these are acceptable casualties, as they are necessary for the
survival and growth of the New City. Though I truly regret some of the
losses.

Tertius: We are not all equal, this is a viscious lie that the host
community foists as one of its central myths: intellect, strength, emotion,
agility, experience... No two humans are the same, nor think alike. BUT, we
must be equal in our mutual courtesy and respect towards one another, even
in vehement disagreement.

Quartus: I have, in my own Faith Community, spent the capital of my
reputation and word in portraying Nova Roma as a good effort at re-awakening
and re-creating Roma Antiqua of the pre-Christian, Republican era, with a
nod to its existence as also a creature of the late 20th century (in re: a
wider religious tolerance, no slavery, equity between the sexes,
etceteras). The events of the past few weeks have sorely tried even my
patience, and may give rise to an image of Nova Roma to outside observers of
being a little like the Balkans of today. I shall continue to laud Nova
Roma's efforts to others in the areas which deserve such, and label the rest
an enigma to me.

Quintus: Gaudemus!!! The efforts I have seen over the past several days
towards bringing life and vigor to the Religio are wonderful! My next post
will be a service to Apollo, as I see a Nordic adherant might perform such.
It will be based upon a ritual of mine own religion, so this will give one
and all a glimpse at the form of Asatru which I practice.

Sextus: Gaudemus!!! Announcements of new lives: babies and marriage!
Vivat! These are things which help to form a Community: Family, Heritage,
Faith. Of these, Family is the imporrtant one, for with out kin and kith,
who are we?

Nuff said...

mea sententia - Venator


Subject:	Long: A Rite for Appollo
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:22:35 -0700

Avete Omnes!

As many of you know (hey Dex, I haven't mentioned this in a while) I am an
Asatruar. This is a Nordic-Germanic reconstructionist religion. We admit
that we don't do things exactly as the Honored Ancestors did, but we do try
to get close, using the available documentary and archaeological evidence.

I would like to offer, in light of the Ludi Apollonaria (spelling?), this
ritual to Apollo, from an Asatruar who is somewhat Romanized. Please forgive
any seeming errors, this is my interpretation and understanding of Apollo,
in light of how I perform devotions. In our religion, we call such a ritual,
a Blot (rhymes with boat). This is from the ancient word for blood and stems
from the time of slaying animals in a ritual manner to share with the Holy
Ones. We normally do our "workings" facing north, the direction in which
our Gods are thought to live. As the Olympians are a Mediterranean
pantheon, I would do this ritual facing East, towards Olympus and the rising
sun (which being, the time of day I would perform this ritual). Also, we
tend to use mead or ale these days as the sacrifice.

It is below, I hope it is of some use.

In Amicus et Fidelis - Venator

==================================================================================

Apollo Blot:

The setting should be a grove of evergreen trees, failing that, a nice park
like area, backyard or other private area conducive to communing with Apollo
will do nicely.
Set up an altar in the center of the area. This can be a waist high table
covered in a gold cloth, a small boulder, a section of tree trunk, etc. On
or by the altar place a light: candle, oil lamp, torch, brazier... plus a
candle, etc. at each of the compass points (when possible).

The other ritual objects: a bow and arrow, a laurel wreath, a flask of wine,
a bowl, a cup, a flute or small stringed instrument, a small olive or
evergreen branch.

Costume: dress in ancient or modern garb, the outer form has less importance
than the inner intent and spirit. Though, a chiton or tunica and sandals
would probably lend more atmosphere and solemnity.

First, pour some wine into the cup. Greet the spirits of land and sky,
explaining your purpose, then share a libation with them, drinking a little
then pouring a quarter of the rest to each of the four points. Saying: "I
give thee greetings Spirits of this place. I am come today to give honor
and respect to one of the Mighty Ones. I share this drink with thee in a
spirit of friendship that the purpose might please thee also.

Next, a warding to the cardinal points is performed ([I know, but ritual
form in the Western traditions does tend to cross metaphysical boundaries
<G>]). As Apollo has aspects as archer and musician, the warding tools are
the bow, arrow and musical instrument. Grasp the (in my case) flute in the
left hand and the bow and arrow in the right. Hold them high and say to the
rising sun (at each point, imagine a soldier standing guard beside a
watcher, a legionary palisade surrounding the entire ritual area): "Bow and
arrow, weapons in war, tools in peace, Flute, bringer of music at all times,
(gesture with the flute towards the fire at the east, then south, etc.)
Fire, warmer of life, Sanctify this enclosure and prevent all evil things
from entry!" Turn sunwise (to your right) and say this to the south, west
and north.

Facing east once again, hold the tools high to Apollo and say in proud,
clear tones: "I consecrate and make holy to the service of Apollo this altar
and place of sacrifice, banishing from it all influences which are unholy
and impure! May our minds, hearts and spirits be likewise consecrated to the
honor and service of Apollo, such is our will! As Juno's geese guarded Rome,
may this place be warded against all forces inharmonious to our purpose here
today!"

Set down the bow, arrow and flute, hold up the laurel wreath and speak to
Apollo thusly: "Apollo, Lord of the Bow, Marksman Supreme! Apollo, Patron of
Music, Melodious One! Apollo, Sun God, Sender of Light and Warmth! We know
you by the greening of the fields under the spring sunshine! We feel your
touch in the sunshine upon our skin! We hear you in every note of song! We
see you in the art of every archer's cast! Apollo, Phoebus, Helios, Son of
Jupiter and Leto, Brother of Artemis, Inspiration of Oracles, Seeker after
Daphne, Physician, Cattle herder, Bearer of Laurel, Bright One, Divine
Shepherd! Apollo, Archer, Light Bearer, Harper, we of Rome salute you and
ask that you join us here!

Set down the laurel. Fill the wine cup and hold it about eye level with both
hands. Say: "We offer you sacrifice, as in the days of old when we walked
the holy groves and glades, not of flesh and blood, but of our human
efforts, our struggles, our devotion and dreams! May it aid us, Gods and man
alike in the effort to forge a place anew in this world for Rome that was
and shall be again! Apollo, accept our gifts! Not as from slaves, for we
have no masters! Not as appeasement, but as a sign of our respect and
affection!"

Hold the wine cup above your head, offering it to Apollo with all your will
and desire. When you feel that Apollo has accepted it, place the cup on the
altar and hold your hands over it, as if warming them over a fire and say:
"Apollo, you have received our sacrifice, symbolized by this wine. Pour now
your blessing and power into it, making it a true vessel of inspiration,
that we may grow in your eyes as Romans."

In your mind's eye, picture Apollo sending a ray of sun into the wine cup,
infusing the wine with a spark of his divine strength and will. Pour a
little of the wine into the bowl and take up the olive or evergreen twig.
Sprinkle each of the people with some of the wine to transmit Apollo's
energy, saying these words: "I give you the blessing of Apollo."

Lay down the twig and bowl on the altar. Pause for a moment, reflecting
silently on the importance of the moment. Take a sip from the cup feeling
the warmth of Apollo as it infuses your body. Move sunwise and offer a drink
to each participant, sharing the energy. As each one takes a drink, they may
make an appropriate, short comment or prayer to Apollo. [It is appropriate
to refill the cup from the flask. A God's energy is boundless and even one
drop left in the cup will bless the new wine.] When all have partaken,
return to the altar and pause again to reflect on the moment. Reverently
pour a little more into the bowl and drink the rest in the cup. After a few
heartbeats say, looking to the east: "The sacrifice is done! May it
strengthen us in devotion to the Gods, in the determination to build Nova
Roma! May our strivings be filled with faith, dignity, wisdom and courage,
until we see the boatman and go to be judged! Apollo, we thank you for your
presence! As you return to Olympus, carry with you the sentiments of we on
earth! We Salute you Apollo! Fare thee well!"

Hold the bow, arrow and flute as before and say in turn to the warders at
the four points.: "In the name of Apollo, we thank you, farewell!"

Replace the tools on the altar and pick up the bowl. Without taking a sip
this time, pour a libation to the spirits of land and sky, thanking them for
the use of the ritual area.: "We thank thee spirits of this place, our rite
is done, our work is finished."

The ritual is now over.


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	Daniel Dreesbach dreesbach@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:33:56 -0700 (PDT)

Perhaps allow for the creation of one ormore junior censors for this.

G.Iunius Germanus

--- James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Salve, Dictator Germanicus;
>
> Sir, in regard to the work-load that you plan for
> the updating of points
> and maintenance of the NR list, I ask your leave to
> comment. I have
> recently been in correspodence with both esteemed
> Censors, and they
> indicate that the Censors job in all aspects can
> virtually be a full
> time task on occasion. With vacation, illness,
> family, and work
> considerations, the job which is already
> time-consuming may be
> impossible to keep up with. Apparently it proved so
> in the recent past,
> and although the Censors were working at their
> resposibilities, they
> were unable to keep ahead of the administrative
> input. I mean no
> criticism or disrespect here, but it seems to me
> that some sort of
> clearace desk of the sort that a Cornicularius
> Praetor or Legati would
> be in charge of may be a consideration. It is my
> further understanding
> that the Cemsores has requested administrative
> assistance in the past.
>
> I most respectfully forward this idea for your
> consideration.
>
> Vale, Distator Germanicus;
> Very Respectfully;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
> Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes!
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>


Subject:	Re: Long: A Rite for Appollo
From:	Diomus@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:14:02 EDT

What a perfect rite! I thank you for sharing it and I will pass it
on to others.

Flavius Lucianus Diomus


Subject:	Re: Personal privacy
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:27:37 EDT

Salvete,

> Roman history is gossip arguement doesn't hold water. I concur with your
> assement and our honorable Dictator should making some sort of
> pronouncement. My gens and everyone else should be able to abide by

As much as I concur with most of his other statements, I must
strongly disagree with the esteemed Gaius Severus here. In no way should the
dictator interfere with what can and cannot be said in this forum. His job
is to quickly and efficiently mend the most damaging problems of the state as
best he can, not to decide what is fair for discussion in the virtual forum.
The person who has that right is the list moderator. Unfortunately,
to my knowledge, that postion is currently vacant. If our honored dictator
is to take action, it should be to appoint someone for that role.
More important than nitpicking over who has the right to censor the
list, however, is the time-honored privilege of Roman citizens to speak their
minds. Only when some speech truly threatens the republic should anyone step
in in an official manner. Otherwise, the community is quite capable of
policing itself, as it is doing in this case. Besides, the computer comes
equipped with a delete key for a reason.

Valete,
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	Announcements and Aftermaths
From:	Donmeaker@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:32:13 EDT

In a message dated 99-07-12 11:51:12 EDT, Marius Fimbra writes:

> even finances are considered private< snip

So, it seems can be one's gender. Oh come off it, with all of us with a
number assigned by a total stranger who works for the government; taxes taken
before we even see the money; total strangers able to pay a few coppers for a
credit report? This is private?

As for 'Confidences', there were none. All messages were exchanged and
permission granted to post them on this list. Please note, divorce, like
marriage is a public event.

I imagine biological details were of less cause for embarrassment in Ancient
Rome, with the public baths and all. Gossip and more gossip, what else is and
was politics? Squeamishness is a modern invention, to support the ministers
of the gospel and the pornography industry. Hard to tell who makes more off
of it.

I have had a young lady ( one Lisa K.) avow eternal affection, and only to
take her leave after the initial party ran down. There is a way to change
your mind, ethically, and with honor. I guess that paying some share of
expenses is a way to make it clear that union is not likely, here as well in
the United Kingdom. I got out cheap, only shelling out a few thousand before
I discovered that that she was yet another faithless Christian. And I don't
even want to think about my first marriage! Ouch!

In opposition to these, Crystal has always been scrupulously open and honest
in all things. Some may not care for that virtue. I find it the basis of
life. I have met some Christians on this list who feel differently.

But when a young woman like Nocta makes a sudden decision after months of
engagement, all the while avowing love to an honorable young man, and still
refuses to explain, well, it seems not quite fair to me. It deserves a public
outing, at least as a warning to others. Kind of like a Megan's Law for
batchelors. One who would attack a citizen for their honesty should fall into
the same sewer. What of one who would attack our appointed and ordained
Priestess? Please note: Crystallina was ordained long before her involvement
with Nova Roma began.

I will admit my prejudice. Senator Pro Tem Sulla is my paterfamilias, and has
proven to be a man of manners and honor. One that would treat him thus
scurvily would accordingly be less than honorable, by my lights and the Roman
virtues I hope we hold dear. Crystallina is my wife, and has replied to the
concerns of Marius Fimbra privately. Hence my regret to have to post this
open response to the list, from me. I deemed it necessary to counter the
dishonorable public character assassination attempted by M. Fimbra. Neither
of us know of any reply to Crystallina's honorable private communications to
M. Fimbra.

Crystal can at least take her own advice. "You don't like it, delete it." She
is no longer a member of this list. To the select few: See you on the back
alley.

Sincerely

Don Meaker
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus


Subject:	Re: All the Temples in one place?
From:	Joan Lansberry or Julia Cachia gallae@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:45:39 -0700

Vopisca Iulia Galla offers a small page for the Temple of Cybele on the
Palatine Hill:

<<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/nrcybele.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/nrcybele.htm</a>>

and also some ancient and recent songs and meditations:

<<a href="http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/images.htm" target="_top" >http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/images.htm</a>>

Valete omnes, in luce Magnae Matris

-----------------------------------
Colloquy: <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/colloquy.htm</a>>
Joan's "A Tale Told With Time":
<<a href="http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm" target="_top" >http://www.azstarnet.com/~gallae/jurnndex.htm</a>>
Julia: <<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/julia.htm</a>>
Joan's "Out On a Limb":<<a href="http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html" target="_top" >http://www.casagrande.com/~gallae/joanalll.html</a>>


Subject:	Re: Centuries
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:06:30 -0700

I concur with Q.Fabius, as a matter of fact I believe there should be 2
Quaestors assisting our Censors. One to make certain our Citizen rolls are
constantly updated, and one to assist in other Censorial Duties as directed by
our Censors. That way their important work can be completed with a minimum
amount of backlog.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 7/12/1999 6:24:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
>
> << Cornicularius Praetor or Legati would
> be in charge of may be a consideration. It is my further understanding
> that the Censors has requested administrative assistance in the past.
> >>
> Salvete!
> Marvelous idea Marcus Minucius! Such an office would be a great help to the
> Censors, who are overworked and under appreciated in Rome right now.
> Flavius Vedius, please add my voice to Marcus Minucius' request.
> Valete!
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> Curule Aedile
>
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