Subject:	Re: Provinciae in Europa
From:	Marco Guasti fresco@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:54:07 +0300

Subject:	Re: Personal privacy
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:22:19 EDT

Salve Titus Labienus,

You must be new. We have had a second list for a long time for just the
purpose of allowing those cives whose enthusiasm tends to outrun their
sense of decorum to let it all hang out. It is called the "Back Alley"
(originally the Nova Roma Back Alley, but apparently someone objected to
that) and is run by Amethystia Iunia Crystallina, who has apparently
unsubscribed herself from _this_ list in another of her endless series of
little snits because somebody says something she doesn't like.

We also have long had a very capable list moderator, but she recently
abandoned her duties in a fit of temper because her husband was accused
(quite accurately) of having neglected his duties. That was related to
the events which led to the trumped up Senate meeting held without the
knowledge of the senior Consul, who was subsequently illegally stripped
of his offices and citizenship by our new Fuhrer -- oops, wrong mythology
-- our new Dictator -- because he insisted on pointing out that the
emperor had no clothes -- oops, wrong fairy tale -- that our elected
magistrates were not carrying out their responsibilities.

If you think you've stumbled into a farce that's a cross between "Peyton
Place" and "The Palatine Hillbillies" you may be right.

There are some great people here, really. Just ignore the man behind the
curtain.

Enjoy!

L. Sergius Aust.


re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.

(Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.)

Subject:	The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:41:53 -0400 (EDT)

Salve Citizens of Nova Roma;

Marcus Minucius Audens rises in Forum to speak in relation to the Main
List;

Fair Citizens, Magistrates, Priests and Honored Dictator;

The Main List is our lifeline and without it we are incomplete. There
are other lists associated with NR, which have done good service, but as
was said so eloquently by T.L. Fortunatus, this is the list that carries
the hopes, fears, and main dialog for this organization. The "Back
Alley" List while not officially part of NR still carries a portion of
the information, but primarily it is the Main List that bears the most
pressure and largest load..

Just prior to the last election the Webmaster had suggested just such a
introduction of other Lists, but the idea was not pursued, because those
people of Nova Roma want to be heard by the greatest number of people.
In order to have a more usable list several ideas have been forwarded:

--No one line messages;
--Only one posting per person per day;
--etc.

However, none have prevented the people from posting as they desire to.
It will not be long now until the new elections will begin to inspire
speechs from the new and old candidates again and again the List will
fill up. What s the answer?? It seems to me that adding another list
would simply increase the List Usage and every Magistrate in order to do
his / her duty by their oath would have to be aware of what was going on
in every case. not to mention the citizens who have a combination of
interests.

I would support additional lists for the Sodalitas' which would confine
their messages to technical aspects of Engineering and Cartography,
Recipes and Procedures for the preparations of food and wine, or the
relation of Children to the NR as a whole, but the problem of a
fair-handed, balanced List Moderated is increased by the number of lists

I am a person who is governed by a good deal of dicipline, because my
military background and later my re-enactment background have bent my
spirtit in that way. I do not see things the way others do, and I try
to make ajustments for that shortsightedness. My efforts are not
always successful, however, and while I may get a message praising my
action from one or two citizens , I am almost sure to get at least one
telling me how far out I am. The old and tried "Golden Rule" seems to
be the best measure of your use of the List:

(Say about others that which you would have them say about you--or-- If
you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all)

Both are "Fairy Tales" in todays world, I know., but there is a cetain
lastng quality about them. that gives a wise man or woman pause to
consider whether or not he / she will be working closely in the future
with the person they are about to savage!!

I would ask all of the NR Citizens to remember each time that you post a
message to reflect on the value of this List, and to set up your
messages in such a way as to support that value. Other than that, I
echo the thoughts of many Nova Romans, that that is what the "Discard"
button is for. I use it quite often when I feel the individual post is
out of line, inappropriate, in error, rediculous or disgusting. It is
easy to do, it does not create hate and discontent, there is always
personal mail to make further inquiries if you are indeed interested in
the other fellow's view, and the List is more enjoyable as a privelage
to look forward to using instead of a dreaded chore. I agree that some
things must be said in response to those who do not understand NR, but
they should at least leave room for the re-establishment of a minimum of
tolerance when the discussion is over..


Vale Citizens of Nova Roma;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Municius Audens



Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Authentication CODE on the WEBSITE
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:46:11 EDT

401.3 Unauthorized: Unauthorized due to ACL on resource
Salvete!
We are aware of the problem. We are attempting to fix it. Hopefully we will
be up and running soon. Stay calm. There is nothing subversive going on in
NR.
This is a technical problem and it will be handled. That is all.
Valete
Q Fabius
Curule Aedile

Subject:	Re: The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:19:31 -0500 (CDT)

Thinking in terms of the next elections, perhaps we should
add one more list. I think many of us would like to see all the personal
grievances put to an end on this main list. We should have something
like a Nova Roma personal chat list that can handle "civil" ( like I
wish) personal dialogue and election debates, platforms, etc. of
candidates. This main list could be used to post information, make
constructive suggestions, make inquiries into different topics and
overall be the official list that Nova Roma can proudly display to new
citizens and those interested in the possibility of joining Nova Roma.

In short, a new list can solve a couple of our recurring
problems. Some have been so disgusted with the personal attacks on
themselves or others they have felt obliged to leave Nova Roma behind or
had to be annoyed sometimes on a daily basis with the massive amounts of
emails clogging this list based on people slamming each other during the
elections or just slamming each other just because they want to.

The Back Alley is there, but not really sufficient for a few
reasons. (1) Not every citizen can have access to the list I believe (2)
This isn't an official Nova Roma list and the government can not control
it (3) It was designed with the thought of allowing any kind of
conversation--- in its founding for "the thicked skinned" (dirty jokes,
or other adult content, etc. It is perfectly Ok there but not
necessarily in a new list with a slightly different purpose in mind.

Crys does a nice job moderating the Back Alley and there is always
a place for it especially since it seems to have its own special sort of
community dialogue very unlike the sort of personal dialogue we have
here on the main list which is sometimes adversarial in nature. Another
list could go far in making this main official list a good way to allow
some citizens the option of overlooking some of these personal posts
stick more to a "professional" look for anyone to see--- especially new
citizens. If a citizen is sickened with the content of the other list
(sarcasm, hatemail,etc) they can always cancel themselves from it and
come back here without necesarily feeling the need to remove themselves
from Nova Roma altogether. I think it's imperative that we do something
before the next election season ( remembering our first one).

Does anyone think this would be a better idea than what we have
now? It allows control over dialogue on a official list and compromises
to give people an avenue for freedom of speech along with other kinds of
emails that not everyone wants to read yet have to scroll through on the
main list to find quality content.

Just my suggestion,

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:46:12 EDT

In a message dated 7/14/1999 12:19:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:

<< Does anyone think this would be a better idea than what we have
now? It allows control over dialogue on an official list and compromises
to give people an avenue for freedom of speech along with other kinds of
emails that not everyone wants to read yet have to scroll through on the
main list to find quality content.>>

Salve Gaius Drusus Domitianus, Praetor Laci Magni Provincia!

Once again I rise in protest of your suggestion. Leave our onelist alone!
When I used to moderate a historical list, we had titles in brackets, this
allowed
the people to see before the download what they were going to be looking at.
The Propraetor Antonius Gyllus used this title bracketing during the
political campaign last year. I am going to adopt something similar during
my campaign.
If we start dividing up the lists perhaps people might miss something. Also
we have lived with this system since the start of Nova Roma. If you want to
tell dirty jokes in Latin, discuss Dex's latest gown, etc., go subscribe to
the Back Alley. That is why Amethystia Iunia Crystallina set it up. It is
the back alley in subura. However if I'm making speeches I want the speakers
to take note of, I'm going to post here. If I want to put all the Temples on
the same webpage and make that announcement I'm going to post here. If I
want to discuss the evolution of the pilum I'm going to post here.
And if I see information here that I know to be wrong, I'm going to post
here. Not to embarrass the poster, but to keep the wrong info from being
circulated. Finally if have something exciting or traumatic happen to me, I
want to post here. I have two
families, one is my gens, the other Nova Roma. I want to include both in my
life.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
Curule Aedile.

Subject:	Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:53:21 -0700

I agree. NR Main list is just that the main list and the focal point of Nova
Roma. While we have the Taverna we never reach as many people as we do via the
NR Main List. This is the forum we all have to get our ideas across. And for
those of use who have been here since the beginning or near beginning, 16 months
has been a long time. Many of us have developed a comraderie. To confine the NR
Main list to just a specific focal point would hinder new and potential Civies
from getting a better view of NR.

Its not like I enjoyed Nocta posting our breakup on the list. But, considering
that it was through this medium, website and our Taverna. It would be as if I
didnt tell my family or my best friend. Nova Roma is my family. And that to
deny the ability of us to post something that affects us as a citizen from the NR
main list, gives a bad impression to new Citizens. Remember, in ancient Rome,
family issues were just as important as they are in Nova Roma. We all know
that. Therefore to deny it in Nova Roma is just foolishness in my opinion.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 7/14/1999 12:19:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:
>
> << Does anyone think this would be a better idea than what we have
> now? It allows control over dialogue on an official list and compromises
> to give people an avenue for freedom of speech along with other kinds of
> emails that not everyone wants to read yet have to scroll through on the
> main list to find quality content.>>
>
> Salve Gaius Drusus Domitianus, Praetor Laci Magni Provincia!
>
> Once again I rise in protest of your suggestion. Leave our onelist alone!
> When I used to moderate a historical list, we had titles in brackets, this
> allowed
> the people to see before the download what they were going to be looking at.
> The Propraetor Antonius Gyllus used this title bracketing during the
> political campaign last year. I am going to adopt something similar during
> my campaign.
> If we start dividing up the lists perhaps people might miss something. Also
> we have lived with this system since the start of Nova Roma. If you want to
> tell dirty jokes in Latin, discuss Dex's latest gown, etc., go subscribe to
> the Back Alley. That is why Amethystia Iunia Crystallina set it up. It is
> the back alley in subura. However if I'm making speeches I want the speakers
> to take note of, I'm going to post here. If I want to put all the Temples on
> the same webpage and make that announcement I'm going to post here. If I
> want to discuss the evolution of the pilum I'm going to post here.
> And if I see information here that I know to be wrong, I'm going to post
> here. Not to embarrass the poster, but to keep the wrong info from being
> circulated. Finally if have something exciting or traumatic happen to me, I
> want to post here. I have two
> families, one is my gens, the other Nova Roma. I want to include both in my
> life.
> Vale
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> Curule Aedile.
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Attention ONElist list owners.
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:42:37 -0500 (CDT)

Well, so far both of you had a point to make but don't you think
that anyone interested in these personal conversations would also
subscribe to the civil list or whatever it could be called. A good many
people have left because of some of the posts from this list and quite a
few others disgruntled.

Shouldn't there be a place for some citizens to go to get all
the major news and information without all the unnecessary conflict and
personal issues?-- along with not having to go through and delete the
better part of 40, 50 or more emails that often have little relevence to
Nova Roma or just incites people. Would anyone like to see the day soon
when we have more citizens where we have maybe 200 emails a couple of
days a week. Not to be baised but for a webtv user (and we have at least
a few more than me already) that can only handle 140 or so messages in
their mailbox at any given time this would be more than annoying. I
really don't understand what the problem would be in having another
official list- I think it would be well trafficked too.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Long: A Rite for Appollo
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:59:09 EDT

In a message dated 7/14/99 12:26:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> wr--------:

<< Hej, if you can keep Dex and Vinnie properly in their places, you shouldn't
have any trouble calling the quarters. B'sides, shouldn't we help guide the
Olympians home after all these years? >>

My mind has enough rooms for multiple personalities...but my quarters do not!
LOL

The Olympians are home! : )

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Lives of the Caesars (was personal privacy)
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:24:33 -0400

Salvete Flavi Luciane et alii

I think that he means Dio, the Roman historian, of the middle imperial
period I believe.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------;
>
>In --------ss--------d-------- 7/13/99 4:35:22 AM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>writes:
>
><< First off he
> was pagan which was important, he didn't filter things through
Christianity
> like Dio. >>
>
> I wasn't sure if I was the Dio to whom you were refering to in this
>passage. If I am I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me an email to let me
know
>how you figure thta I "filter things through xtianity". I must admit that
>statement has me completely baffled if so. I'd really appreciate it and
>thanks alot.
>
>Flavius Lucianus Diomus
>

Subject:	The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:55:58 -0400 (EDT)

Marcus Minucius Audens rises in forum to address the continuing interest
of the Citizens in regard to the Main List;

Salve Citizens of Nova Roma;

Subject:	Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:35:55 EDT

I agree completely. People are not thinking this through clearly. To call
for all business to continue to be confined to this one list goes
completely against the idea of Nova Roma growing into a substantial
organization. Do we really want all of the online conversations of Nova
Roma to always be in this one place, where everyone has to wade through
hundreds of messages that don't interest them just to find the thread of
the conversations in which they have a part?

The call for Nova Roma to continue with one list is a call for Nova Roma
to remain small. Imagine if every citizen of even Switzerland or Portugal
or Denmark conducted their business and private lives over one single
telephone party line. Unimaginable! Crazy!

The notion of selecting messages by posted subject doesn't work. First of
all, who has the time to go through hundreds of titles and decide what to
go back and download? Secondly, since when have civies ever confined the
content of their message threads to the subject of the original posting?

For Nova Roma to grow, there must be other lists for specific audiences.
Crys performed a wonderful service for the State in founding the
alternate list for unrestrained conversation (even if the original idea
was mine -- [thumps chest pompously]). As has been pointed out, however,
she runs it as a private list that is not accessible to citizens in
general.

Seperate lists for special interests should be encouraged. This is the
only Forum for Nova Roma. It should be used for matters germane to
everyone, such as matters of state, policy, general announcements etc..

Valete,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
>
> Well, so far both of you had a point to make but don't you think
>that anyone interested in these personal conversations would also
>subscribe to the civil list or whatever it could be called. A good many
>people have left because of some of the posts from this list and quite a
>few others disgruntled.
>
> Shouldn't there be a place for some citizens to go to get all
>the major news and information without all the unnecessary conflict and
>personal issues?-- along with not having to go through and delete the
>better part of 40, 50 or more emails that often have little relevence to
>Nova Roma or just incites people. Would anyone like to see the day soon
>when we have more citizens where we have maybe 200 emails a couple of
>days a week. Not to be baised but for a webtv user (and we have at least
>a few more than me already) that can only handle 140 or so messages in
>their mailbox at any given time this would be more than annoying. I
>really don't understand what the problem would be in having another
>official list- I think it would be well trafficked too.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus


nullae satisfactionis potiri non possum.

(I can't get no satisfaction.)

Subject:	Re: The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:35:51 EDT

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>Salve Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens rises in Forum to speak in relation to the Main
>List;
[snip]

Well said, Marcus Minucius!

On the subject of the coming elections, if they are going to be anything
like last years', I would much prefer that a separate list be set up for
all of the play-acting and accusations and politicians' promises. I'm
probably in the minority on this question, since many others seem to
enjoy that stuff.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Provinciae in Europa
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:47:09 -0400

Salvete Marce Promethe et alii



<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">>From: Marco Guasti <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
>
>From Marcus Prometheus Decio Golia (Italicus writing from Dacia)
>

>
>Certainly the two "TRANS" names, are correct in Latin in ethimology
> B U T people from those countries certainly would never think of
> themselves being correctly identified as being just those beyond
>their neighbors (which often where also their foes).

A few questions:

1. Would it really offend people in this situation to belong to a NR
provincia so named, that is, by the "trans-" convention, given that NR is a
new micronation, seeking to re-build the best elements of a civilization
that, most often, predates the conflicts to which you refer?

2. Do these people, potential applicants for NR citizenship, think of
themselves as Dacians, Scythians, Sarmatians et cetera? I mean, I may joke
that I'm half Samnite because my paternal ancestors going back a few
centuries have lived in the Benevento area - but I'm not a Samnite, since
the last of those had given up their language and cultural identitiy quite a
while (a millenium?), seemingly, before my family has any history in that
region. In like manner, it's tough for me to believe that anyone living
today can trace heritage back to the Scythians, Sarmatians et cetera. So
how can one be offended by association with these groups or proximity
thereto?

3. Are we not all, in coming into Nova Roma, seeking to unite in a Roman
identity? We are actively reaching out, or in if you prefer, to Romanitas.
Who cares what the name of your provincia is? They call mine Nova
Britannia. Maybe they should call it Anglia Nova. I'll not lose any sleep
over it, that's for sure.

>If you live in a house and your name is Mr. Green, you would like to
>receive
> mail under this name, and not under the name of Mr. beyond Mr.Brown's
>house
>(even if you are good friend of Mr Brown). Worst is if you just hate
>hearing that
>a mister Brown exists, because of ancient quarrels!

I understand your reasoning but do not know that I agree with it.
>
>
>
> TRANSGERMANIA is more difficult to define, but neverthless even more
>necessary to be
>re-defined so we could use BALTIA (for the sea basin including Poland
>and not only the Baltic States)
>or VENDIA-BALTIA or BALTIA-VENDIA, for Poland and The Baltic States


You have a better handle on the ancient names of these areas than I do,
that's for sure.
>
>As for ASIA CENTRALIS certainly russians would prefer to be called
>SARMATIANS (even among barbarians there is barbarian and more barbarian
>!) ;-)

Ouch! I'm glad that I'm not Kazakh, Uzbek or other Central Asian. I'd
probably be pretty pissed off right now.

>As for far away Asian republics of former Soviet Union Scarcely will
>ever come from there a single would be civis of Nova Roma,

You may be right about that. For one thing, that is a relatively sparsely
populated, and even less developed, region. Very few people there have
regular access to the Internet, which remains NR's main channel to new
citizens. No reason to take a few shots at them though.

and so when
>and IF he will come he could even choose if he feels closer to Parthia
>or to
>Sarmatia.

True enough.
>
>But most important to me and Iwould suggest to those who feel Romans
>might be to redress a very bad mistake
>
>In the map of European provinces the Republic of MOLDOVA (capital
>Kishinau)
>is annexed to TRANSDACIA i.e. to Ukraine !

Hold on. Transdacia is not Ukraine. "Transdacia" could mean-

a) a modern province of Nova Roma
b) a land contiguous to the Roman orbis terrarum in ancient times

The fact that the boundaries of a) may be represented by those of Ukraine,
the modern nation state, does not mean that the two entities are one and the
same.

>
>
>Dictator, Senatore, Cives!
>
> Not only the Moldavians where DACIANS in the old imperial times, but
>they are ROMANIANS now! When you ask their nationality they answer " EU
>SUNT ROMUN " They speak "ROMANESTE"


(long, interesting recounting of ancient and recent regional history deleted
for space)

Thank you for that historical background! I'm no fan of Igor Smirnov and
the Tiraspol crowd, but I believe that those events are beyond the scope of
this list, and so I won't be expanding on that here.
>
>I respectfully propose to correct as soon as possible the map of Dacia
>adding Moldavia to it as a good omen that once Moldavia and also the
>raped city of Tighina will democratically choose to be reunited to
>Romania to which they belong for rigth and for the latinity of the
>majority of the population.

Marce Promethe, we cannot right historical wrongs by re-writing the map of
our provinces. Just as pagans cannot change history by omitting Constantine
from the chronology, so too we have to acknowledge that what happened to the
Moldovan Romanians happened. Changing the name of a province won't change
what happened.
>
>Valete.
>
>
> Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
> Italian citzen since birth, Romanian citzen since last year
> NOVA ROMA Applicant for citzenship
>
Valete

C Marius Merullus
civis Novae Romae

Subject:	Re: Personal privacy
From:	JimmyG1970@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:12:25 EDT

T Labianus Fortunatus,

I heartily agree with your suggestion! Sorry to hear that the daughter is
depriving you of sleep just remember they love you. (Sorry not meant to
offend)


Gaius Severus Marius

Subject:	So sorry to intrude upon your personal website!
From:	JimmyG1970@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:36:19 EDT

To whom this may concern,

I am so sorry to intrude upon you personal website. I thought that this was
a place that was trying recreate Roman society. I would like to say that I
haven't attacked anybody they have either attacked me or member of gens for
merely making suggestions. You speak of Roman insults but that is not what
has transpired. What has happened is that we have been attacked in
particularly un-Roman way and more of 20th century way that is to say an
uptight intellectual snobby way. But before you say something like "well
that is how Roman was", we are new members here. OOPs! I forgot it's your
website is it not?

Secondly, who are you tell anyone that they have to change to suit you!.
That absolutely the must un-Roman way to treat somebody. OOPS Once again this
your personal website (and the original 35)! If that is truely the way you
feel about the situation the perhaps you shouldn't accept new members with
ideas different than your own so forgive my intrusion.

Lastly, I hope that what haven't stumbled upon is some sort of clickish thing
here. I do truely want to be a member (that is to say if this not your
personal website). I was making suggestions as to how maybe to improve this
micronation and not your personal website. If you want Nova Roma to grow as
I do then perhaps you had better consider how treat its new citizens on your
personal website.


James George

Subject:	Re: So sorry to intrude upon your personal website!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:55:50 -0700

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173176014213196180024200097115114253071048139" >JimmyG1970@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173176014213196180024200097115114253071048139" >JimmyG1970@--------</--------;
>
> To whom this may concern,

Well look please do me a favor, and let me know who you are responding too. That
would help.

>
> I am so sorry to intrude upon you personal website. I thought that this was
> a place that was trying recreate Roman society. I would like to say that I
> haven't attacked anybody they have either attacked me or member of gens for
> merely making suggestions. You speak of Roman insults but that is not what
> has transpired. What has happened is that we have been attacked in
> particularly un-Roman way and more of 20th century way that is to say an
> uptight intellectual snobby way. But before you say something like "well
> that is how Roman was", we are new members here. OOPs! I forgot it's your
> website is it not?
>

And just who's personal website are you talking about? If you read the website,
that is what we are trying to accomplish. Remember there is much more to the
ancients than just government, politics...they were composed of familys Just like
NR. Hence NR does have the same family issues as Ancient Rome. I mean come
on...look at the ancient Cornelii, Fabii, Sergia, Iulia. Everything that went on
in ancient Rome was a family issue. Now as for the insults and such...just who
are you referring too?

>
> Secondly, who are you tell anyone that they have to change to suit you!.
> That absolutely the must un-Roman way to treat somebody. OOPS Once again this
> your personal website (and the original 35)! If that is truely the way you
> feel about the situation the perhaps you shouldn't accept new members with
> ideas different than your own so forgive my intrusion.

What is this? we are complying with the precepts of ancient Rome. or are you
talking about civies? I cant tell...

>
> Lastly, I hope that what haven't stumbled upon is some sort of clickish thing
> here. I do truely want to be a member (that is to say if this not your
> personal website). I was making suggestions as to how maybe to improve this
> micronation and not your personal website. If you want Nova Roma to grow as
> I do then perhaps you had better consider how treat its new citizens on your
> personal website.
>

Look everything is sort of clickish..but that doesnt mean that you arent
welcome. You are more than welcome...hang out in the Taverna..get to know us and
allow us to get to know you. Thats the only way you can break down that
barrier...Whose Personal website are you talking about? I am just the Praetor
Urbanus and Senator, and as far as I know this website is everyone's. Well just
as a suggestion to you, you can take it however you like. But we do have Market
Days where we meet in the Taverna to talk about anything. I suggest you give it
a try.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator

>
> James George
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> What is "FRIENDS & FAMILY?"
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:46:26 -0400

Salvete Luci Corneli et alii

>Its not like I enjoyed Nocta posting our breakup on the list. But,
considering
>that it was through this medium, website and our Taverna. It would be as
if I
>didnt tell my family or my best friend. Nova Roma is my family. And that
to
>deny the ability of us to post something that affects us as a citizen from
the NR
>main list, gives a bad impression to new Citizens. Remember, in ancient
Rome,
>family issues were just as important as they are in Nova Roma. We all know
>that. Therefore to deny it in Nova Roma is just foolishness in my opinion.

I agree with much of what you say, but I doubt that it would have been
possible in Roma Antiqua to broadcast transcripts of disintegrating personal
relationships to all the citizens with little/no effort.

Modern communications have a lot of power. We have the means to transmit
huge amounts of information to each other, much, much faster and with so
much less effort than was possible in Roma Antiqua. Furthermore, this list
does not exist as a secondary appendage to a community with other types of
meeting places, like physical camps, towns et cetera. Most of the
interaction among citizens, for now and the immediate future, happens here.
If we drown the list with material that is not necessarily of broad
relevance, not political, historical, nor religious, we can create so much
noise that it will hamper the evolution of the community rather than bring
it closer together.

Here and now, we need to exercise some distinction and discretion about what
we say in the forum. We do not need censorship though. Let's each and all
of us censor our own posts instead.

>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Praetor Urbanus et Senator
>
Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER (OR IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY ORWHAT!!)
From:	"Keith Seddon" K.H.S@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:53:24 +0100

I greatly enjoyed Lucius' ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER.

But what is the moral? (Is there meant to be one?)

Is the story meant to show that the wider community has no moral
obligations to look after the silly grasshopper who doesn't know any better
(for whatever reason)?

Or is the story meant to show that the wider community DOES have moral
obligations to look after the silly grasshopper who doesn't know any better
(for whatever reason)?

As a Stoic, I believe that we all depend upon the wider community for our
individual survivals, and that the community relies upon our individual
efforts to support it.

It was very mean of the ant not to invite the grasshopper into his house
and support him properly. The outcome for both would have been much better,
and would not have involved the Clintons at all, which has got to be good.

Live with honour,

Lucius Gellius Severus
Stoic Philosopher

Subject:	Re: So sorry to intrude upon your personal website!
From:	JimmyG1970@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:57:52 EDT

Salve!

That message was directed Q. Fabius Maximus and the comments he has made
toward myslef and my gens

Gaius Severus Marius (james george)

Subject:	Re: Personal privacy
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:52:48 EDT

Salve, L Sergius.

> You must be new. We have had a second list for a long time for just the

Actually, if I remember correctly, I was Nova Roma's sixty-eighth
citizen.

> sense of decorum to let it all hang out. It is called the "Back Alley"

Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the Back Alley is not an
official Nova Roma list, is not open to anyone who wishes to join it, and
belongs wholly to Crystallina. It has certainly served its purpose, and Crys
has done the republic a great service by creating it. However, it is not,
and has not been, the solution that is currently being called for.

> We also have long had a very capable list moderator, but she recently

True enough. However, she was not armed with a clear set of rules to
enforce. The list's guidelines consisted of a request to keep one's posts at
least peripherally concerned with Roma - new or old.

> If you think you've stumbled into a farce that's a cross between "Peyton
> Place" and "The Palatine Hillbillies" you may be right.

It certainly has looked that way from time to time! (LOL)

> There are some great people here, really. Just ignore the man behind the

I can't argue with that, and I wouldn't want to. Through Nova Roma,
I've met - and come to respect highly - a great many worthwhile people. Even
through the worst of our bickering, I haven't regretted joining once.

Vale,
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Annoucement in the Forum.
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:56:38 EDT

Salvete!
Because of the continuous problems we seem to be having with the onelist my
colleague and I have decided to clean up the Forum. We ask that all citizens
censor themselves. If you must post personal comments, beefs, complaints
about another citizen, we request that you take it outside of the Forum to
the Crossroads. We have imposed on the Priestess of Iuno, Amethystia Iunia
Crystallina to design another forum like her back alley, but open to all
citizens of Nova Roma. And now I'll let her tell the particulars.
Valete
Q.Fabius M. Martianus Curule Aedilis.

Salvete!
Please take a moment to review this message.

Welcome to ViaTrames. This is a list for personal comments, beefs,
complaints, about other citizens.
This list is NOT moderated, so if you don't care for any another's comments,
you may either unsub from this list or try to persuade the other party to
unsub from the list.
This list will handle all things handled at a Crossroads. Gossip, Graffiti,
Scandal,
and all other sorts of slanderous statements. If you do not want to hear it,
feel free
to never to subscribe. However what are they saying about You?

To Subscribe: <a href="http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/ViaTrames" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/ViaTrames</a>
To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
between digest and normal mode.

Thank you and Valete,

Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
The List Owner

Subject:	Re: Annoucement in the Forum.
From:	Diomus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:06:29 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 7/14/99 8:57:22 PM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< Salvete!
Because of the continuous problems we seem to be having with the onelist my
colleague and I have decided to clean up the Forum. We ask that all
citizens
censor themselves. If you must post personal comments, beefs, complaints
about another citizen, we request that you take it outside of the Forum to
the Crossroads. We have imposed on the Priestess of Iuno, Amethystia Iunia
Crystallina to design another forum like her back alley, but open to all
citizens of Nova Roma. And now I'll let her tell the particulars.
Valete
Q.Fabius M. Martianus Curule Aedilis. >>

I am sure that our Priestess of Iuno will do a most excellent job in
creating this new list. Good luck Cystallina and may the gods show favor on
you for bringing such a wonderful service to Nova Roma! You have my full
support.

Flavius Lucianus Diomus

Subject:	Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:43:11 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes...

On the topic of 'one List or several, and what ought to be on this
one'...why don't we ask the newbies? Concern for their concerns has
been one of the pivot-points of this debate thus far; why not ask them
directly:
-- What sorts of discussions were you hoping to see on the Main List
when you first subscribed?
-- What sorts of discussions have you actually found?
-- Have you been satisfied with the topics and level of discussion on
the Main List thus far? Has it met your expectations?
-- If not, how could it best be gotten to meet them:
-- separate List(s) for public stuff vs. personal stuff?*
-- separate Lists(s) for each major interest-area?*
-- keep everything on the Main List but more
strictly-moderated?**
-- keep everything on the Main List and hope your fellow Nova
Romans will eventually develop some sense of decorum? [dodges
thrown objects!] >({|;-P

* Note: Both options will save you the bulk e-mails, but you risk
missing something of potential interest...

** Note: on an actual MODERATED List, the moderator has the option of
disapproving 'irrelevant' messages so that, although sent, they do not
even appear; needless to say this would involve trusting someone else
to make this judgement, as by going to Moderated status we will have
surrendered the right AND the responsibility to do so ourselves.


We actually do have several 'interest-group' Lists, btw; a
well-intentioned newbie formed about half a dozen of them some months
back, which are still there and haven't seen much traffic; two others
that actually *get* traffic are both restricted Lists, meaning the
moderator has to approve your subscription request. None of them are
'moderated' in the sense described above. So far there are:
the Back Alley [restricted]--ask Crys;
religio [restricted]--ask Pythia;
ViaTrames (brand-new; intended as a public Back Alley);
(the well-intentioned newbie's Lists:)
NovaRoma_Debates (also intended as a public 'Back Alley');
NovaRoma_History (for historical topics);
NovaRoma_Legions (for reenactors themselves);
NovaRoma_Military (for general military topics);
NovaRoma_Religion (for Roman Pagan and other religious topics);
(other independent Lists:)
NovaRoma_Government (for organizational matters and politics);
NovaRoma_Literature (for literary discussion; poss. for the
proposed literary Sodalicum...?)
Roma_Familia (for topics related to Roman kids & family life);
RomanArmy (for reenactors...this is not an NR List per se, but
most of Nova Roma's reenactor community is subscribed to
it);
britannia (Provincia Britanniae);
NovaromaVyzantia (NR in Eastern Europe);
...and possibly other Provincial e-Lists.

Senators: the well-intentioned newbie also formed a NovaRoma_Senate
List; is this something that could be of use to you...?


So, newbies, what do you think? I'll let anyone here decide for
themselves if they qualify as a 'newbie'; I'm hoping for good feedback,
or at least to meet some of you guys and give you a good chance to
'de-lurk'!

Cheers...
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:06:20 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete iterum...

Oops...! --I forgot to tell you that all of the mailing-Lists I
mentioned are on ONElist.com...if any of them strike your fancy, go
there; look up the List in question; once you're at the 'List Center'
for that List, you should be able to review the List archives if there
are any, and that is also where you'd subscribe.

I'll even mark the active ones for you...

>[A] the Back Alley [restricted]--ask Crys;
>[A] religio [restricted]--ask Pythia;
>[A] ViaTrames (brand-new; intended as a public 'Back Alley');
>[the well-intentioned newbie's Lists:]
> NovaRoma_Debates (also intended as a public 'Back Alley');
> NovaRoma_History (for historical topics);
> NovaRoma_Legions (for reenactors themselves);
> NovaRoma_Military (for general military topics);
> NovaRoma_Religion (for Roman Pagan and other religious topics);
>[other independent Lists:]
> NovaRoma_Government (for organizational matters and politics);
> NovaRoma_Literature (for literary discussion; poss. for the
> proposed literary Sodalicum...?)
>[?] Roma_Familia (for topics related to Roman kids & family life);
>[A] RomanArmy (for reenactors...this is not an NR List per se, but
> most of Nova Roma's reenactor community is subscribed to
> it);
>[A] britannia (Provincia Britanniae);
>[A] NovaromaVyzantia (NR in Eastern Europe);
>...and possibly other Provincial e-Lists.

Enjoy...!

************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |\=/|
mka Märia Villarroel ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> >[SPQR]< `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
Roman Historical Re-Creationist ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
and Citizen of Nova Roma | | / )\ \| /
'Latin a dead language?...Not _|_| / _/_| /`(
within a 50' radius of me it ain't!' /./..=' /./..'

Subject:	Re: Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication
From:	Diomus@--------
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:18:28 EDT

In a message dated 7/14/99 9:43:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> write--------r>
<< Salvete omnes...

On the topic of 'one List or several, and what ought to be on this
one'...why don't we ask the newbies? Concern for their concerns has
been one of the pivot-points of this debate thus far; why not ask them
directly:

That sounds like a great idea. To the best of my knowlege I am the
newest of the newbie. I'd be happy to answer your questions and I greatly
appreciate your concern.

-- What sorts of discussions were you hoping to see on the Main List
when you first subscribed?

When I subscribed to the Main List (which was about 2 weeks prior to
becoming an official citizen of Nova Roma) I was hoping to find duscussion
relating to Religio Romana, Roman history, Roman philosophy, and Nova Roma
itself.

-- What sorts of discussions have you actually found?

Actually I found all of those things being discussed. Something else
that I found however was a suprising amount of bitter arguing. Also I found
myself exposed to all sorts of acusations (true or not) regarding who peddles
porn, who left who, who is mentally ill, and who used to do drugs. I
understood that these things are very important and neded to be discussed but
I was shocked that they were bing discussed in front of persons like myself.
For this reason I almost said to heck with Nova Roma. I am glad that I did
not.

-- Have you been satisfied with the topics and level of discussion on
the Main List thus far?

I've been satisfied with many of the topics and level of discussion.
I understand that I came into Nova Roma at a very turbulent time. The
political bickering was very dissapointing as were the personal attacks. But
for everything else I have been pretty well satisfied.

Has it met your expectations?

Some things did. Others fell way short. A few (such as the recent
posting of a rite to Apollo and the poems submitted to Apollo) far exceeded
my expectations.

-- If not, how could it best be gotten to meet them:
-- separate List(s) for public stuff vs. personal stuff?*

It seems to me that many citizens of Nova Roma know one another very
well and enjoy sharing matters of a very personal nature with one another. I
think that is great. I'm just not sure that those tings belong on the mail
list were anyone could be reading them. I'm all for a second list which would
deal exclusively with personal matters.

-- separate Lists(s) for each major interest-area?*

Actually I'mnot sure that Novar Roma is big enough for that yet.
Also I kind of like having the major interest areas together. Seperate list
will probably become necessary as Nova Roma grows. I look forward to that
day.

-- keep everything on the Main List but more
strictly-moderated?**

That might work but I still prefer the idea of a second list for the
exchange of personal information
.
-- keep everything on the Main List and hope your fellow Nova
Romans will eventually develop some sense of decorum? [dodges
thrown objects!] >({|;-P

That would be nice but I don't think we will ever see it happen.
Besides, people need a special place to be able to vent.

* Note: Both options will save you the bulk e-mails, but you risk
missing something of potential interest...

I may miss someting of potential interest but I'm sure that someone
would pas it on to me if it were something of importance.

** Note: on an actual MODERATED List, the moderator has the option of
disapproving 'irrelevant' messages so that, although sent, they do not
even appear; needless to say this would involve trusting someone else
to make this judgement, as by going to Moderated status we will have
surrendered the right AND the responsibility to do so ourselves.

With two seperate lists that may not be needed.

We actually do have several 'interest-group' Lists, btw; a
well-intentioned newbie formed about half a dozen of them some months
back, which are still there and haven't seen much traffic; two others
that actually *get* traffic are both restricted Lists, meaning the
moderator has to approve your subscription request. None of them are
'moderated' in the sense described above. So far there are:
the Back Alley [restricted]--ask Crys;
religio [restricted]--ask Pythia;
ViaTrames (brand-new; intended as a public Back Alley);
(the well-intentioned newbie's Lists:)
NovaRoma_Debates (also intended as a public 'Back Alley');
NovaRoma_History (for historical topics);
NovaRoma_Legions (for reenactors themselves);
NovaRoma_Military (for general military topics);
NovaRoma_Religion (for Roman Pagan and other religious topics);
(other independent Lists:)
NovaRoma_Government (for organizational matters and politics);
NovaRoma_Literature (for literary discussion; poss. for the
proposed literary Sodalicum...?)
Roma_Familia (for topics related to Roman kids & family life);
RomanArmy (for reenactors...this is not an NR List per se, but
most of Nova Roma's reenactor community is subscribed to
it);
britannia (Provincia Britanniae);
NovaromaVyzantia (NR in Eastern Europe);
...and possibly other Provincial e-Lists.


Wow. Some of those look very interesting. Information about them
should be put on the website so that newbies will have a chance to learn
about them.

Senators: the well-intentioned newbie also formed a NovaRoma_Senate
List; is this something that could be of use to you...?


So, newbies, what do you think? I'll let anyone here decide for
themselves if they qualify as a 'newbie'; I'm hoping for good feedback,
or at least to meet some of you guys and give you a good chance to
'de-lurk'!

Well I hope that you found my feed back to be informative.

Flavius Lucianus Diomus

Cheers... >>