| Subject: |
Re: Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication |
| From: |
Steven Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:06:33 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes et Salve Diomis!
Venator here:
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------; wrote:
(respectful surgery)
> A few (such as the recent posting of a rite to Apollo
(more surgey)
I'd like to take another opportunity to thank all those who found some use
and pleasure in the Rite to Apollo I wrote. I am heartened that a Halromani
(half Roman) such as myself can contribute to the Religio.
<a href="mailto:NovaRoma_Food@--------" >NovaRoma_Food@--------</a> also exists. One only needs to go to the One List
site to register. Is there any objection if I suggest that this become the
official list of the Sodalis pro Coquus et Coqueror (the Society for Brewers
and Cooks)? It is easier to access than the Deja News list I started. Good
food and good drink (of all sorts) are passions with me, and I hope with all
Romans.
Heritage - Truth - Freedom
Venator, Cives, Paterfamilias Ulleria,
erstwhile Dominus Sodalis et Quaestor Pro Tempore
- Nova Roma Res Publica Resurgans !!! -
|
| Subject: |
Re: Annoucement in the Forum. |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:25:23 EDT |
|
Salvete omnes!
Via Trames is an excellent idea and the perfect solution the e-list
question. Good job, Q. Fabius! Kudos, Crystallina!
SPQR
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
Decorum (was Re: The List-Main Line of Communication) |
| From: |
Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:29:22 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete iterum:
> -- keep everything on the Main List and hope your fellow Nova
> Romans will eventually develop some sense of decorum? [dodges
> thrown objects!] >({|;-P
On reflection, I realized I was only half-kidding; what the Hacker's
Dictionary refers to as 'Ha-Ha, Only Serious'. This evening I chanced
upon the following passage, in one of the first books I ever read about
the Romans:
What constitutes Rome's greatness, in the last analysis, is
that powerful as these [passions and physical appetites] were
in her people there was something still more powerful;
ingrained in them was the idea of discipline, the soldier's
fundamental idea. However fierce the urge of their nature was,
the feeling for law and order was deeper, the deepest thing in
them. Their outbreaks were terrible; civil wars such as our
world has not seen again; dealings with conquered enemies which
are a fearful page in history. Nevertheless, the outstanding
fact about Rome is her unwavering adherence to the idea of a
controlled life, subject not to this or that individual, but to
a system embodying the principles of justice and fair
dealing....
Over the lawless earth where petty tribes were forever fighting
other petty tribes for the right to live...marched the Roman,
bringing with him as certainly as his sword and his lance his
idea of an ordered life in which no man and no tribe was free,
but all bound to obey an impersonal, absolute authority which
imposed the necessity of self-controlled action.
-- Edith Hamilton, _The Roman Way_, Pp.193-4, 197-8
I have seen and, in the main, been gratified by the amount of passion
everyone here has put into Nova Roma. It is to be hoped that we may
yet see demonstrations of that discipline which, in holding such
passions in check, became the signal characteristic of the Roman
people...and without which we are in no wise fit to call ourselves
their heirs.
Mea sententia...
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |\=/|
mka Märia Villarroel ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> >[SPQR]< `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
Roman Historical Re-Creationist ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
and Citizen of Nova Roma | | / )\ \| /
'Latin a dead language?...Not _|_| / _/_| /`(
within a 50' radius of me it ain't!' /./..=' /./..'
|
| Subject: |
Re: Decorum (was Re: The List-Main Line of Communication) |
| From: |
AC1917@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:40:51 EDT |
|
Here, here, Fimbria!
Camillus Severus Antoninus
|
| Subject: |
The Eagle????? |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:25:26 EDT |
|
With our beloved Flavia Claudia no longer a citizen, who is managing The
Eagle Newsletter? Is it defunct? If not, who is the new editor? To whom
should submissions be sent to for the next month's issue?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Provinciae in Europa |
| From: |
Marco Guasti fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:56:42 +0300 |
|
RMerullo wrote:
> A few questions:
>
> 1. Would it really offend people in this situation to belong to a NR
> provincia so named, that is, by the "trans-" convention, given that NR is a
> new micronation, seeking to re-build the best elements of a civilization
> that, most often, predates the conflicts to which you refer?
If they think a moment about it, my respectful but educated guess for
most of them would be just YES even if the would not realize fully why.
Even I, until you insisted on the subject, did'nt realize so well and
clearly the full absurdity of TransGermania and TransDacia.
I stated the two nanes are correctly constructed in Latin but I was
wrong, they are not at all as NOUNS, they could be so constructed as
adjectivesm but in a different sense.
As I thought better to it to answer your specific question I realized
that I absolutely never heard or at least I don't remember of any usage
both in Antiquity or in Modern times both in Latin or any modern
languages of a construiction with TRANS something when this something
involves a country name or worst a PEOPLES NAME, likr Trans-"X" to
indicate oneother country "Y".
It would have been absurd. If you are mr. Y , you are not well
described as
"mr. not X" or "mr. beyond X". The reason? even if it were true,
such statement would be just an insignificant part of the whole truth.
This would define a very very small aspect of your BEING.
This is the common sense reason by which we never never absolutely never
find in any geography or in any history a name like "TRANS-a-country",
for oneother country.
FOR COUNTRIES or REGIONS we do find ONLY and exclusively:
"TRANS-a-river" like TransNistria, TransVaal, Transpadania
or the opposite CIS- like "CisPadanian Republic" which was the name
given by Napoleon to the provinces of Modena Parma Reggio Emilia and
Bologna (when first the italian Tricolor flag was adopted region in
Italy) because they are situated before the river PO (or Padus)
We also find trans-a-lake (TransBaikalia for a small Siberian region).
we have TRANS-a mountain (or a chain of mountains) like Transilvania in
Romania = beyond the transilvanic Alps or just beyond the selvae = the
forests.
We had Gallia Transalpina (now France)
We had also the opposite, i.e. Gallia Cisalpina = northern Italy which
was the Gallia before the Alps from Romanocentric point of wiew
BUT already when we find terms implying TRANS-a sea, or trans-a desert
we find that it is used just only as an adjective
(and not as a name of a country or of a region).
Examples: we speack of transatlantic maritime commerce,
of transaharian caravans commerce etc.
Not of the country or region of Transaharia or Transatlantia.
Exceptions? NONE!
Apparently there was an exception in Czarist Russian region of
TransCaucasia, but only apparently as such TransCaucasia did NOT extend
beyond the southern ropes of the Caucasus mountains. It was just the
southern part of the Caucasus mountaineus region proper, (so more
properly it might be called TransCaucasus as if it is trans something
implying Caucasus is just south, trans, beyond the line dividing the
waters, parting the waters in the Caucasus, the line parting the river
basins going north or south (in italian it is called the linea
spartiacque, sorry I don' know if there is amore specific term in
english and I have not an Italian English Dictionary here in Romania).
So in reality and properly it migth have been called Trans Caucasus or
even more properly SOUTH CAUCASUS, but it was named Transcaucasia
instead, I guess
just because it sounds better, NOT because it is beyond the region or
"country" of Caucasus, but because it is the southern part of it.
Conclusion: it is not an exception to the rule.
TRANS-a-Country
The oly cases when we could speack of TRANS -a-COUNTRY is when we use
adjectives NOT NOUNS like in those TransSiberian Raylway , Trans
Austrian rally or even (phantasy examples) trans Panamian Canal, etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 2. Do these people, potential applicants for NR citizenship, think of
> themselves as Dacians, Scythians, Sarmatians et cetera? I mean, I may joke
> that I'm half Samnite because my paternal ancestors going back a few
> centuries have lived in the Benevento area - but I'm not a Samnite, since
> the last of those had given up their language and cultural identitiy quite a
> while (a millenium?), seemingly, before my family has any history in that
> region. In like manner, it's tough for me to believe that anyone living
> today can trace heritage back to the Scythians, Sarmatians et cetera. So
> how can one be offended by association with these groups or proximity
> thereto?
I cannot say about YOU.
Myself in Italy I am from Tuscany, so a Tuscanian in modern terms.
In the moment when I imagine myself in the settings of 2 millenniums ago
as
Marcus Prometheus I belong to a region which was then called Etruria, so
I can think of myself as an Etrurian. If I think to 3 millenniums ago in
proper Etruscan language I would be a RASENNA.
If I were jew or just interested in ancient Israel and I imagined to
belong to some jewish ancient community let's say of Palmyra I would
never FEEL EXACTLY DESCRIBED if this jewish community was defined
TRANSLIBANIAN or TRANSARMENIAN or CISARABIAN or TRANSARABIAN, it depends
all from the point of wiew.
And my point of view, my center would be Gerusalem, nothing else.
This just very very coldly and intellectually.
Then if my feelings in favour or against one of the terms were for some
reasons of my belief or history partucularly strong, then I could be not
only intellectually unsatisfied by the definition, but just outraged.
For me it is simple like that.
Some people feels strongly their nationality.
For me, my nationality is ROMANITAS. My patriotism goes straigth to all
neolatin countries, European and Latin Americans, I am European and I
like it, I'm proud of it, but I also recognize and usually appreciate
American leadership of the free world and for our civilization.
Do you remember about the Sigonella episode of Italian Usa confrontation
when perhaps a dozen years ago the good modern centurions of U.S. Air
Force obliged an airplane to land in Sicily to arrest an arab terrorist?
Italy's prime minister Craxi obliged the americans to give up the
terrorist claiming italian soverignity. I was ashamed as of course a few
days after the terrorist was freed.
I just do not want to offend you but I would like to understand your
Romanitas.
Is not a kind of patriotism and sense of brotherhood with fellow neo
latins peoples? And with all fond of ancient Roman civilization?
> 3. Are we not all, in coming into Nova Roma, seeking to unite in a Roman
> identity? We are actively reaching out, or in if you prefer, to Romanitas.
> > TRANSGERMANIA is more difficult to define, but neverthless even more
> >necessary to be
> >re-defined so we could use BALTIA (for the sea basin including Poland
> >and not only the Baltic States)
> >or VENDIA-BALTIA or BALTIA-VENDIA, for Poland and The Baltic States
>
> You have a better handle on the ancient names of these areas than I do,
> that's for sure.
Don't you have an historic atlas ? I love to collect them In Italy
really I have many. I love to study them an they bear the ancient names
for the ancient times
maps.
> >
> >As for ASIA CENTRALIS certainly russians would prefer to be called
> >SARMATIANS (even among barbarians there is barbarian and more barbarian
> >!) ;-)
>
> Ouch! I'm glad that I'm not Kazakh, Uzbek or other Central Asian. I'd
> probably be pretty pissed off right now.
1) Anyway, believe me this would be the general opinion of the Russians,
and also
2) as it is nowdays not considered geographically correct to define
Russia as Asia, and 3) as they absolutely don't like it I consider
absurd to do so.
ecxept if we do deliberately want to insult them.
Hum, perhaps I don't know how to vote ;)
> >As for far away Asian republics of former Soviet Union Scarcely will
> >ever come from there a single would be civis of Nova Roma,
>
> You may be right about that. For one thing, that is a relatively sparsely
> populated, and even less developed, region. Very few people there have
> regular access to the Internet, which remains NR's main channel to new
> citizens. No reason to take a few shots at them though.
The core of the problem is not economics logistics or demography !
They ar muslims akin ti the turks (not modern turks but turks of before
their settling in Anatolia) or to the Iranians or to the Mongolians so
they emotionally do not belong to our civilizations. It is not me who
says it, i'ts them.
Islam is together Statal allegiance often also national allegiance,and
political allegiance. In a macro sense it is just what in a micro sense
the NOVA ROMA concept is for a few of its citzens, so I cannot imagin NR
and islam overlapping. They are just alternative. I bet there isn't a
single muslim in NR now, and there will be always very few, very
individual cases at least for centuries on, if ever. If there is any
I'llbe very curious and I invite everybody to be very kind to him becaus
it would be just a rarity.
They cannot be interested in our themes.
Their dreams simply are not ours. You cannot force them to take ours
either.
They dream the Prophet and his generals military glories or in the best
case the link with Europe is Spain's Moorish high civilization and some
hellenistic -arab philosopher and mathematician or Saladdin or the
Hashemite friends of Lawrence of Arabia or perhaps the great figure of
Omar Khayamm.
Do you imagin they could tolerate pagan talks?
They would have put to death the emperor Julian. Even in todays
mostly civilized Egypt aposthasy from Islam is legally sanctioned with
death penality.
Also all the provinces of Africa are absolutely empty cases destined to
stay so.
-----------------------
> >and IF he will come he could even choose if he feels closer to Parthia
> >or to
> >Sarmatia.
>
> True enough.
>
----------------------
> >But most important to me and Iwould suggest to those who feel Romans
> >might be to redress a very bad mistake
> >
> >In the map of European provinces the Republic of MOLDOVA (capital
> >Kishinau)
> >is annexed to TRANSDACIA i.e. to Ukraine !
>
> Hold on. Transdacia is not Ukraine. "Transdacia" could mean-
>
> a) a modern province of Nova Roma
> b) a land contiguous to the Roman orbis terrarum in ancient times
Hold on:
TransDacia could be perhaps a Moto rally crossing historic Dacians
regions from Szeghed on the Tysza (Tibiscus) to Bucarest in Romania, to
Kishinau in Moldavia, to Tirasopol (if Smirnov will be defeated) to
Odessa if The Ukranians consent.
It could be called so because once all these places where DACIANS annd
such rally crosses through ( TRANS ) them.
-----------------
> The fact that the boundaries of a) may be represented by those of Ukraine,
> the modern nation state, does not mean that the two entities are one and the
> same.
Do you think they are the same borders ny chance ???????????????????????
Even if so it is still an absurd.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Dictator, Senatore, Cives!
> >
> > Not only the Moldavians where DACIANS in the old imperial times, but
> >they are ROMANIANS now! When you ask their nationality they answer " EU
> >SUNT ROMUN " They speak "ROMANESTE"
>
> (long, interesting recounting of ancient and recent regional history deleted
> for space)
>
> Thank you for that historical background! I'm no fan of Igor Smirnov and
> the Tiraspol crowd, but I believe that those events are beyond the scope of
> this list, and so I won't be expanding on that here.
I do respectfully keep just the opposite opinion, and for this I would
like to understand you better as I asked before. What is romanitas for
you?
I said something about myself for the same purpose ( the patriotism of
the western free civilized world).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >I respectfully propose to correct as soon as possible the map of Dacia
> >adding Moldavia to it as a good omen that once Moldavia and also the
> >raped city of Tighina will democratically choose to be reunited to
> >Romania to which they belong for rigth and for the latinity of the
> >majority of the population.
>
> Marce Promethe, we cannot right historical wrongs by re-writing the map of
> our provinces. Just as pagans cannot change history by omitting Constantine
> from the chronology,
In Theory we could rigth some historic wrong, but here, attention , I am
not speaking of thoes real world historic wrong.
{ The only connection with real world could be some lobbying to free
Ilie Ilascu & cfriends.)
Unfortunately I do admit that here in Noiva Roma we cannot rigth true
HISTORICAL WRONGS, and I am not adept of rewriting history ignoring
Constantine (we can just tell the truth about him and it is bad enough).
I just want to rigth a NOVA ROMA geographical, linguistic and
ideological wrong.
If it is true that N R inspires itself referring to the History of
Rome, and particularly to the late republican period,then, I consider:
1) Geographically Moldavia Kishinau was never part of something called
TransDacia
2) Since the sixth century b.c. the Geto Dacians inhabited all the lands
between
the Tibiscus and the Nistrus (Dnester)
In the first centuries after the legions came, briefly stayd in 2 thirds
of Dacia and then left, romanization began and went on after even to
parts of Dacia unattained by the legions. So we don't have a date or an
episode "dating" the disappearing of Dacian language, and the peaceful,
frewilling romanization, but Romano Dacians continue the Dacians.
3) Romanodacians survive barbarian invasions and absorb invaders.
4) The first Slav state of Kiev confirms the traditional eastern border
of the Nistrus River for 90% of the course of the river. Only the
springs and first chilometers of the river in the north and for a very
small mounaineous area called Pocutia belonged to Kiev for maybe one or
2 centuries until the Mongolian Tatars arrived. The Pocutia belonged to
Poland. The border between latins and Slavs always was at the Nistrus.
The Russians empire appared on the river border just with the partition
of Poland, and confirmed it, but just a few years after, in 1812 the
insatiable Czarists Russians occupy the first time Eastern Moldavia and
begin denationalization.
5) Anyway the latins still are 2 thirds in Moldova, and trace their
ancestors to the Romans and to the Dacians.
6) A roman Lupa ( She Wolf with Romulus and Remus) )is in a Kishinay
square, and even if nowdays Moldova keeps his independence forgetting or
delaying re-union to Romania, still they trace their ancestors to Dacia
and Rome.
Do the Nova Romans have any moral rigth to insult most of them?
To insult history ??? But Why ?????? Just for ignorance ??????
But why to take exception from their own points of reference?????????
And if so do they remain Nova ROMANS ?????? Then what is Rome for them
?????
Divine Mercury and Apollo ! Is this Nova Roma or Nova Moscova ?????
It seems so absurd to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------
> so too we have to acknowledge that what happened to the
> Moldovan Romanians happened. Changing the name of a province won't change
> what happened.
But I do acknowledge the existence of an independent State Moldova! It
is
where a large majority of people trace their cultural and phisical
ancestry
both to Dacians and to Romans, exactly as it happens in neighboring
Romania.
A minority (now) of Moldavians even have as political greatest issue to
unite with Romania. Perhaps their sons will be able to do it as they
have the same language, religion, traditions, ancestry.
They never N E V E R belonged to Kiev or to Ukraine.
(Just to Russia or Soviet U.)
The large Slav minority there is Russian and dreams of Moskow, not of
Kiew
(Kiew with a too large Russians minority does not think to them either)
So why Nova Romans migth insist to keep them together in a virtual
province
95% of space and population occupied by Ukraine. I'ts just NONSENSE for
me.
After bothering to read this data I trust it will appear absurd even to
you.
Salve
Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
Italian citzen since birth, Romanian citzen since last year
NOVA ROMA Applicant for citzenship
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collectible Artifacts |
| From: |
DTibbe2926@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:44:47 EDT |
|
I collect Imperial Roman coins from Claudius to Hadrian.
When visiting Xanten I picked up part of a tile from a rubbish heap. It's
grey, dull and scruffy but it's got the most valuable thing an artefact can
have...a provenance.
Severus
Britannia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Collectible Artifacts |
| From: |
DTibbe2926@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:44:48 EDT |
|
Lucky old you. The theatre is a thing to see when in Britannia, along with
the Caerleon amphitheatre and the 'Newport' arch (which is in Lincoln).
Here on Iter XI three of the four stops mentioned have visible remains.
Unfortunately I live nearest the one than doesn't!
In a message dated 12/7/99 09:30:46 GMT Daylight Time, K.H.S@btinternet.
<< I live just a few miles from the British Roman city of Verulamium, and I
visit the site (a public park) and the museum as frequently as I can.
Years ago, at a little booth selling tickets to see the ruins of the
theatre, they were selling little pieces of broken roof tile (orange
terracotta), and I bought two pieces. >>
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Eagle????? |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:09:21 -0400 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
Those are good questions. The only answer that I can offer is a quote from
Iulianus' Interregnum message:
"Subscribers to the Eagle will be given the option of receiving a new
publication affiliated with the Julian Society. One large donor will be
given his money back. All other donations, along with the subscription fees
of those who do not choose to receive the new publication, will be given to
charities in furtherance of the goals of Nova Roma."
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>With our beloved Flavia Claudia no longer a citizen, who is managing The
>Eagle Newsletter? Is it defunct? If not, who is the new editor? To whom
>should submissions be sent to for the next month's issue?
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Eagle????? |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:34:40 -0400 |
|
Salve!
> With our beloved Flavia Claudia no longer a citizen, who is managing The
> Eagle Newsletter? Is it defunct? If not, who is the new editor? To whom
> should submissions be sent to for the next month's issue?
Right now, the plan is for the Eagle to continue. I'm in touch with someone
who will hopefully take over the job of editor. I hope to make it, the web
master, and the email list moderator all elected minor magistracies (details
later tonight or tomorrow when I finally get to post everything). For now,
just hold on to those submissions; an announcement will be made soon!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 0/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:03 -0400 |
|
Salvete!
As promised, here is the proposed rewrite of the Constitution, designed to
fix the problems that left our government impotent and unable to take any
action. I've also taken the opportunity to make some corrections to those
things that were historically inaccurate, and restructured it somewhat.
Following this, I'm going to post the various laws and decreta (priestly
decrees) that the system will need to work. (The laws cover the
nuts-and-bolts procedural stuff; I wanted to put them in as laws rather than
build them into the Constitution, so they'd be easier to change if need be.)
I am still working on the rules by which the collegium pontificum is to work
in consultation with our esteemed Pontifex Maximus. They'll be posted when
they're done.
Please review these and offer up any comments; it's not too late to make
changes. The one thing I ask-- read it _all_ before you start firing off
questions. Something that may not be clear in message #1 might very well be
explained in message #4.
This represents the "end-game" of my term as Dictator. After this, I intend
to fill some of the newly created positions, and I fully expect to be able
to lay down my office next week.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 1/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:06 -0400 |
|
CONSTITUTION OF NOVA ROMA
Preamble
We, the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and sovereign
nation, herewith set forth this Constitution as the foundation and structure
of our governing institutions and common society. We hereby declare our
Nation to stand as a beacon for those who would recreate the best of the
Roman Republic, and form our union for the purpose of the study of,
education concerning, and recreation of the ancient Roman Republic.
As the spiritual heir to the Republic of ancient Rome, Nova Roma shall
endeavor to exist, in all manners practical and acceptable, as the modern
restoration of the ancient Roman Republic. The culture, religion, and
society of Nova Roma shall be patterned upon those of ancient Rome.
I. Constitutional Basis
A. Legal precedence. This Constitution shall be the highest legal
authority within Nova Roma, apart from a decree issued by a legally
appointed dictator. It shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by
laws properly voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the
collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurium, Senatus
consulta, and magisterial edicta, in that order. Should a lower authority
conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take
precedence.
B. This Constitution shall serve as the bylaws for Nova Roma, a legally
incorporated entity in the state of New Hampshire, USA (hereafter referred
to as "the corporation"). The conduct and procedures of the Board of
Directors and the officers of the corporation shall be according to the
guidelines and strictures set forth in this Constitution. The Board of
Directors of the corporation shall be composed of the Senate of Nova Roma
(as described in Section V of this Constitution), and the officers of the
corporation shall be composed of the magistrates of Nova Roma (as described
in Section IV of this Constitution), as follows:
1. The co-presidents of the corporation shall be the consuls of
Nova Roma;
2. The co-vice-presidents of the corporation shall be the urban
praetors of Nova Roma;
3. The co-treasurers of the corporation shall be the quaestors of
Nova Roma;
4. The co-secretaries of the corporation shall be the censors of
Nova Roma assigned to the consuls.
C. This Constitution may be altered by law passed by one of the
comitia; such alterations to this Constitution must be ratified by a vote of
two-thirds of the entire Senate before it shall take effect.
D. The use of male pronouns and technical terms within this
Constitution is done solely for clarity, and shall not be construed to imply
any disparity between genders before the law.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 3/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:10 -0400 |
|
III. Comitia
A. The comitia curiata (Assembly of Curiae) shall be made up of thirty
lictores curiatae (curia lictors), appointed to their position by the
collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs). It shall be called to order by
the Pontifex Maximus, and the collegium pontificum shall set the rules by
which the comitia curiata shall operate internally. It shall have the
following responsibilities:
1. To invest elected and appointed magistrates with the Imperium
necessary to employ coercitio (the power to compel obedience to his or her
edicts, subject to the right of provocatio but under penalties determined by
law), interpret and execute law, and possess the honor of being preceeded by
lictors as a symbol of office;
2. To witness the appointment of official priests and priestesses
of the Religio Romana, adoptions, and the recording of wills.
B. The comitia centuriata (Assembly of Centuries) shall be made up of
all of the citizens, grouped into their respective centuries. While it shall
be called to order by either a consul or an urban praetor, only the comitia
centuriata shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall operate
internally. It shall have the following powers:
1. To enact laws binding upon the entire citizenry;
2. To elect the consuls, praetors, and censors;
3. To try legal cases in which the defendant is subject to
permanent removal of citizenship.
C. The comitia plebis tributa (Assembly of the Plebeians) shall be made
up of all non-patrician citizens, grouped into their respective tribes.
While it shall be called to order by a tribune of the plebs, only the
comitia plebis tributa shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall
operate internally. It shall have the following powers:
1. To enact plebiscites with the force of law, binding upon the
entire citizenry;
2. To elect the plebeian aediles and tribunes of the plebs;
3. To try legal cases solely involving members of the plebeian
order that do not involve permanent removal of citizenship.
D. The comitia populi tributa (Assembly of the People) shall be made up
of all citizens, grouped into their respective tribes. While it shall be
called to order by either a consul or an urban praetor, only the comitia
populi tributa shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall operate
internally. It shall have the following powers:
1. To enact laws binding upon the entire citizenry;
2. To elect the quaestors and curule aediles;
3. To try legal cases that do not involve permanent removal of
citizenship.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 2/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:08 -0400 |
|
II. Citizens and Gentes
A. Citizenship
1. Any person fifteen years of age or older may apply for
citizenship (persons aged 15-17 must obtain the written permission of their
parent or legal guardian).
2. Citizenship is open to anyone regardless of ethnic heritage,
gender, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation.
3. Persons under the age of fifteen years may (with the written
permission of their parent or legal guardian) petition the paterfamilias of
a gens for admission. Should the paterfamilias consent, that person shall be
considered a member of the gens and may participate in the religious and
social life of Nova Roma. Such gens members who are not full citizens are
the sole responsibility of the paterfamilias, and need not be registered
with the censors.
4. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that
shall be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
notification of the censors or by public statement before three or more
witnesses.
B. The following rights of the citizens shall be guaranteed, but this
enumeration shall not be taken to exclude other rights that citizens may
possess:
1. Complete authority over their own personal and household rites,
rituals, and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this Constitution
mandates participation in the rites of the Religio Romana, such as the case
of magistrates and Senators;
2. The right and obligation to remain subject to the civil rights
and laws of the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship,
regardless of their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma;
3. The right to vote in elections as members of their various
comitia on matters brought before the People in such manner as described in
this Constitution;
4. The right to participate in all public forums and discussions,
and the right to reasonably expect such forums to be supported by the State.
Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by
the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic;
5. The right of provocato; to appeal a decision of a magistrate
that has a direct negative impact upon that citizen to the comitia populi
tributa;
6. The right to remain sovereign and secure within one's own home,
person, and property;
7. The right to seek and receive assistance and advice from the
State in matters of religious and social dispute occurring both within and
outside the direct jurisdiction of Nova Roma; and,
8. The right to pursue business enterprises within Nova Roma
through the institution of the ordo equester (equestrian order), and the
right to receive reasonable encouragement to build a strong economy through
Roman-oriented commerce; the only restrictions being those informational and
other materials copyrighted by the State, which shall remain the property of
the State.
C. The Orders. Even though members of the three orders are equal under
the eyes of the law, the institution of the orders is significant enough
that it is perpetuated in Nova Roma. There are three orders into which all
Citizens fall:
1. Ordo patris (patrician order). The patrician order shall
consist of belonging to those gentes that were among the first thirty to
join Nova Roma. Should one of these spots become vacant, the censors shall
have the power to elevate a plebeian gens to patrician status in its place.
2. Ordo equester (equestrian order). The equestrian order shall
consist of plebeian citizens who are engaged in the conduct of commerce
(preferably with a Roman theme) who request and are granted entry into the
equestrian order by the censors. Such individuals are expected to contribute
a portion of the revenue derived from Nova Roma back to the State, and
receive reasonable encouragement in their enterprises in return. For
purposes of participating in the comitia, holding office, etc. members of
the equestrian order shall be considered to be of the plebeian order.
3. Ordo plebis (plebeian order). The plebeian order shall consist
of individuals who do not belong to either the patrician or equestrian
orders.
D. Gentes. Families and clans being the backbone of Roman society, the
prerogatives and responsibilities of the family are of primary importance to
Nova Roma. Except where specifically dealt with in this constitution and the
law, each gens shall have the right to determine its own course of action,
and parents shall have the undisputed right and responsibility to see to the
education and raising of their children.
1. Each gens shall be registered with the censors, who will
maintain records of gens membership and other relevant information.
2. No two gentes may have the same nomen (surname) unless they are
differentiated by an agnomen. The censors shall be responsible for ensuring
this rule is observed.
3. Each gens shall, through whatever means it may determine
appropriate, have a paterfamilias (fem. materfamilias) who shall act as the
leader of the gens and speak for it when necessary. The holder of this
position must be registered as such with the censors. The paterfamilias may,
at his discretion, expel members of their gens, or accept new members into
it.
E. Tribes and Centuries
1. There shall exist thirty-five tribes, into which the censors
shall divide all of the citizens. Thirty-one of these tribes shall be
designated the Rural tribes, and shall be assigned as directed by law passed
by the comitia populi tributa. Four of these tribes shall be designated the
urban tribes, and shall be made up of those citizens who fail to vote in the
annual magisterial elections. Should a member of an urban tribe subsequently
vote in an annual magisterial election, he or she shall be reassigned to a
rural tribe.
2. There shall exist one hundred and ninety-three centuries, into
which the censors shall divide all of the citizens. The exact composition of
these centuries shall be determined by law passed by the comitia centuriata,
but shall be weighted in favor of those citizens who have shown the greatest
commitment to Nova Roma, both by contribution and time enrolled as a
citizen.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 4/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:12 -0400 |
|
IV. Magistrates. Magistrates are the elected and appointed officials
responsible for the maintenance and conduct of the affairs of state. There
are two categories of magistrates: ordinarii (those who are ordinarily
elected) and extraordinarii (those who are only occasionally appointed or
elected).
A. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follow.
Should an office become vacant in mid-term and suitable and willing
candidates are at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia
to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty
days of the vacancy (with the exception of paragraph V.D. below). Should one
of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may
be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections
of the ordinarii shall take place in December, and newly-elected officials
shall assume their offices on January 1st. An individual may not be
re-elected to the same office in two consecutive years.
1. Censor. Two censors shall be elected by the comitia centuriata
to serve a term lasting five years. They shall have the following honors,
powers, and obligations:
a) To maintain the album civium (list of citizens), including
the tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law, and
other appropriate information regarding them;
b) To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and
appropriate information regarding them;
c) To maintain the album senatorium (list of Senators),
including the power to add and remove names on that list according to
qualifications set by law;
d) To maintain the album equestro (lists of members of the
equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on that list;
e) To safeguard the regimen morum (public morality and honor)
through the collegial administering of notae;
(1) A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient
to deprive that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
removed;
(2) A nota against a member of the Senate is sufficient
to remove that individual from the Senate until such time as it is removed.
f) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
2. Consul. Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia
centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following
honors, powers, and obligations:
a) To hold Imperium and have the honor of being preceeded by
twelve lictors;
b) To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in
those tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts
being binding upon themselves as well as others);
c) To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the
comitia populi tributa to order;
d) To pronounce intercessio (intercession; a veto) against
another consul or magistrate of lesser authority;
e) To appoint assensi (personal assistants) to assist with
administrative and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
3. Praetor Urbanus (Urban Praetor). Two urban praetors shall be
elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They
shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
a) To hold Imperium and have the honor of being preceeded by
six lictors;
b) To proclaim those edicts necessary to engage in those
tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma and to administer
the law (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
c) To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the
comitia populi tributa to order when the Consuls are unavailable;
d) To pronounce intercessio against another urban praetor or
magistrate of lesser authority;
e) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aedile). Two curule aediles shall be
elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one-year. They
shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
a) To proclaim those edicts necessary to see to the conduct
of public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such
edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
b) To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
c) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
5. Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). Two plebeian aediles shall be
elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting one year. They
must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the following honors,
powers, and obligations:
a) To proclaim those edicts necessary to see to the conduct
of public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such
edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
b) To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
c) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
6. Quaestor. Two quaestors shall be elected by the comitia populi
tributa to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the power and
obligation to administer the aerarium (treasury), and to disburse those
funds that shall be authorized by the Senate in its annual budget. No funds
may be spent without the prior approval of the Senate.
7. Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Two tribunes of the
plebs shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting
one year. They must both be of the plebeian order, and shall have the
following honors, powers, and obligations:
a) To collegially pronounce intercessio against the actions
of any other magistrate (with the exception of the dictator and the
interrex), Senatus consulta, and laws passed by the comitia when they feel
that the spirit and letter of this Constitution are being violated thereby;
b) To be immune from intercessio pronounced by other
magistrates;
c) To be privy to the debates of the Senate, and keep the
citizens informed as to the content and progress thereof;
d) To call the Senate and the comitia plebis tributa to
order.
8. Vigintisexviri (The Twenty-Six). Collectively, the Twenty-Six
shall be minor magistrates elected to fulfill those necessary functions as
shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia.
9. Apparitores (Attendants). Collectively, the apparitores shall
not be considered magistrates, but rather shall be appointed into various
decuriae (corporations) to fulfill those necessary functions as shall be
assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia. They shall include
the lictores, lictores curiati, scribae, and assensi.
B. The extraordinarii are as follow:
1. Dictator. In times of emergency, the Senate may appoint a
dictator to serve a term not to exceed six months. At the time of such
appointment, the Senate may prescribe a given task or boundaries within
which the dictator is obliged to remain. The edicts of the dictator are
absolute within his sphere of influence, and subject to neither intercessio
or provocato. The dictator shall hold Imperium and have the honor of being
preceeded by twenty-four lictors. At the end of his term the actions of the
dictator shall be subject to final confirmation by the Senate.
2. Interrex. Should both consular positions be vacant at the same
time, the Senate shall appoint an Interrex to serve a term lasting no longer
than the passage of two market days. The Interrex must be a member of the
patrician order, and shall have all the powers and responsibilities of a
normally elected consul. The Interrex shall organize new elections in the
comitia centuriata to elect two new consuls to serve out the remainder of
the previous consuls' term of office.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 6/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:17 -0400 |
|
VI. Public Religious Institutions
A. The Religio Romana, the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome,
shall be the official religion of Nova Roma. All magistrates and Senators,
as officers of the State, shall be required to publically observe the sacred
days of the year, and to honor and offer sacrifice to the Gods and Goddesses
that made and make Rome great. Citizens need not be practitioners of the
Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally
blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners,
and magistrates and Senators shall be required to pay due honor to the Gods.
B. The priesthoods of the Gods of Rome shall be organized as closely as
practical on the ancient Roman model. The institutions of the Religio Romana
shall have authority over religious matters on the level of the state and
nation only, maintaining the religious rites of the State and providing
resources pertaining to the Religio Romana which Citizens may make use of if
they choose. Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a
syncretistic outlook, offering friendship to all paths which acknowledge the
right of those who practice and honor the Religio Romana to do so and
respect the beliefs thereof. Only Citizens of Nova Roma may be members of
the public institutions of the Religio Romana, which shall be organized, and
have their responsibilities divided, as follows:
1. The collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs) shall be the
highest of the priestly collegiae. It shall consist of the Pontifex Maximus,
fourteen Pontifices, twelve flamines, six Sacerdotes Vestales, and the Rex
and Regina Sacrorum. The collegium pontificum shall appoint its own members.
The collegium pontificum shall have the following honors, powers, and
responsibilities:
a) To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals
and deis fasti and deis nefasti shall occur, and what their effects shall
be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome;
b) To have ritual responsibilities within the Religio Romana;
and general authority over the institutions, rites, rituals, and priesthoods
of the public Religio Romana as practiced by the members of the collegium
pontificum;
c) To issue decreta (decrees) on matters relevant to the
Religio Romana and its own internal procedures (such decreta may not be
overruled by laws passed in the comitia or Senatus consultum).
2. The collegium augurum (college of augurs) shall be the
second-highest ranked of the priestly collegiae. It shall consist of nine
augurs, five of whom must be of the plebeian order and four of whom must be
of the patrician order. They shall be appointed by the collegium pontificum,
and shall hold their offices for life, with no exceptions.
a) The collegium augurum shall have the following honors,
powers, and responsibilities:
(1) To research, practice, and uphold the ars augurium
(the art of interpreting divine signs and omens, solicited or otherwise);
(2) To issue decreta (decrees) on matters of the ars
augurium and its own internal procedures (such decreta may not be overruled
by laws passed in the comitia or Senatus consultum).
b) Individual augurs shall have the following honors, powers,
and responsibilities:
(1) To define templum (sacred space) and celebrate
auguria (the rites of augury);
(2) To declare nuntiatio (a declaration that unfavorable
and unsolicited omens have been observed that justify a delay of a meeting
of one of the comitia).
3. Other institutions and priesthoods may be instituted, and the
rules for such set, by the collegium pontificum, in accordance with the
ancient models of the Religio Romana as practiced by our spiritual
ancestors.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Constitution: 5/6 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:14 -0400 |
|
V. The Senate. The supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma shall be
embodied in its Senate. The list of Senators shall be maintained by the
censors according to qualifications set by law. The Senate shall have the
following honors, powers, and obligations:
A. As the repository of experience and wisdom in the affairs of State,
the Senate shall have the authority to issue Senatus consulta (advice of the
Senate) on those topics upon which it shall see fit to comment. Such Senatus
consulta shall supercede magisterial edicts in precedence, but may be
overruled by properly passed laws.
B. No later than the last day of November of each year, the Senate
shall prepare a budget for the following year. This budget shall deal with
the disbursement of funds from the aerarium (treasury) to the quaestors for
various purposes. Even though the quaestors assigned to the consuls shall be
responsible for the maintenance of the entire treasury, no funds from it may
be disbursed without the prior approval of the Senate. The Senate may, as
required by changing circumstances, pass supplemental Senatus consulta to
modify the annual budget.
C. The Senate may, by Senatus consultum, create provinciae (provinces)
for administrative purposes and appoint provincial governors therefor.
1. Governors shall have the following honors, powers, and
obligations:
a) To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceeded by
six lictors solely within the jurisdiction of their provincia;
b) To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in
those tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely
within the jurisdiction of their provincia (such edicts being binding upon
themselves as well as others);
c) To manage the day-to-day organization and administration
of their provincia;
d) To appoint legati (legates) to administer sub-divisions of
their province with all of the authority of the governor and to remove the
same as they see fit;
e) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative
and other tasks, as the governor shall see fit.
2. The titles for provincial governors are as follow:
a) Those currently serving as consuls or praetors shall go by
their normal title;
b) Consuls serving as governors whose term in office as
consul has expired, yet who are continuing in their role as governor, as
well as those who have previously held the position of consul, shall be
called proconsuls;
c) Praetors serving as governors whose term in office as
praetor has expired, yet who are continuing in their role as governor, as
well as those citizens whom the Senate shall appoint who are not currently
serving as consul or praetor shall be called propraetors.
D. Should a magistracy be vacant in mid-term, and less than three
months remain in the term, the Senate shall appoint a replacement in lieu of
holding a special election.
E. The Senate may, by Senatus consultum, enact rules governing its own
internal procedures (such Senatus consulta may not be overruled by laws
passed in the comitia).
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 1/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:27 -0400 |
|
LEX GERMANIA CENTURIATA
In accordance with paragraph II.E. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the Lex
Germania Centuriata is hereby enacted to instruct the censors in the matter
of the division of the voting citizenry of Nova Roma into their respective
centuries.
I. The voting citizenry of Nova Roma shall be divided by the censors into
193 centuries. These centuries shall be further divided into five classes,
as follows:
A. Class I shall have 55 centuries;
B. Class II shall have 47 centuries;
C. Class III shall have 39 centuries;
D. Class IV shall have 30 centuries;
E. Class V shall have 22 centuries.
II. The class to which a citizen belongs shall depend on his or her
participation in the public affairs of the State. Citizens who have shown a
greater commitment to public service shall be rewarded by placement in a
higher-ranked class.
A. The censors shall re-calculate the placement of citizens into their
respective centuries no later than the last day of November each year, and
new citizens shall be entered into their respective centuries as they join.
B. The record of public service of each citizen shall be quantified
according to the following schedule (except for points awarded for term of
citizenship, points shall be awarded cumulatively, but shall not carry over
from year to year):
Points Awarded for.
5 Member of the patrician order
3 Member of the equestrian order
20 Senate service, current
20 Senior Magistrate (consul, censor, praetor), current (each)
10 Junior Magistrate (aedile, quaestor, tribuni plebis), current
(each)
5 Vigintisexviri or apparitores, current (max. one)
2 Vigintisexviri or apparitores, previous (max.one)
10 Senior Magistrate, past (each)
5 Junior Magistrate, past (each)
2 Ran for office unsuccessfully (each)
12 Provincial governor, current
6 Provincial governor, past (each; does not apply if currently
holding same governorship)
2 Citizen less than 6 months
5 Citizen more than 6 months
10 Citizen more than 12 months
20 Citizen more than 24 months
30 Citizen more than 36 months
40 Citizen more than 48 months
50 Citizen more than 60 months
20 Priest, current
10 Special appointed position, current (minimum)
5 Special appointed position, past (minimum)
? Other (special)
C. The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special
appointed positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on
behalf of the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the
appointment, and may not be awarded retroactively.
D. The entire list of citizens shall be divided as evenly as possible
into five classes, based on their accumulated points from the above
schedule, with those with higher point totals being enrolled in Class I and
those with the lowest point totally being enrolled in Class V.
E. Citizens within each class shall be divided as evenly as possible
among the centuries in that class.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 2/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:31 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA VIGINTISEXVIRI
In accordance with paragraph IV.A.8. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Vigintisexviri is hereby enacted to create the following positions
within the Vigintisexviri and delineate their functions.
I. Curator Araneum. The curator araneum (overseer of the web) shall be
responsible for the design, expansion, and maintenance of the official web
site(s) sponsored by the State. The curator araneum shall solicit input from
the other magistrates regarding content for the web site related to their
offices, if any. Should the position be vacant, and two or more suitable and
willing candidates are available, an election shall be held within thirty
days in the comitia populi tributa; otherwise the Senate shall have the
authority to appoint a curator araneum pro tem until such an election can be
held. The curator araneum shall hold office for a term of one year, and may
be re-elected to the post.
II. Curator Sermo. The curator sermo (overseer of the conversation) shall be
responsible for the maintenance and moderation of the official email
discussion list(s) sponsored by the State. Should the position be vacant,
and two or more suitable and willing candidates are available, an election
shall be held within thirty days in the comitia populi tributa; otherwise
the Senate shall have the authority to appoint a curator sermo pro tem until
such an election can be held. The curator sermo shall hold office for a term
of one year, and may be re-elected to the post.
III. Curator Differum. The curator differum (overseer of the news) shall be
responsible for the production, publication, and distribution of the
official publications sponsored by the State. Should the position be vacant,
and two or more suitable and willing candidates are available, an election
shall be held within thirty days in the comitia populi tributa; otherwise
the Senate shall have the authority to appoint a curator differum pro tem
until such an election can be held. The curator differum shall hold office
for a term of one year, and may be re-elected to the post.
IV. Rogatores. Two rogatores (voting officials) shall be responsible for the
administration of elections and the recording of votes among the curia.
Should one or both positions be vacant, and two or more suitable and willing
candidates are available, an election shall be held within thirty days in
the comitia populi tributa; otherwise the Senate shall have the authority to
appoint rogatores pro tem until such an election can be held. The rogatores
shall hold office for a term of one year, and may be re-elected to the post.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 3/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:37 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA APPARITORIA
In accordance with paragraph IV.A.8. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Apparitoria is hereby enacted to create the following decuria of
apparitores and delineate their functions.
I. Decuria Lictores. The decuria lictores shall consist of lictores
(lictors), who shall undertake those ceremonial functions as shall be
assigned to them by the Senate, including, but not limited to, preceeding
those magistrates with Imperium at public functions and accompanying
traveling Senators. Members of the decuria lictores shall be appointed by
magistrates holding Imperium.
II. Decuria Lictores Curiati. The decuria lictores curiati shall consist of
the thirty lictores curiati (lictors of the curiae) who shall make up the
comitia curia, and who shall undertake those ceremonial functions as shall
be assigned to them by the collegium pontificum. Members of the decuria
lictores curiati shall be appointed by the collegium pontificum.
III. Decuria Scribae. The decuria scribae shall consist of scribae (clerks),
who shall undertake those administrative and other functions as shall be
assigned to them by the magistrate or provincial governor they are
assisting. Members of the decuria scribae shall be appointed by those
magistrates with the Constitutional authority to appoint scribae.
IV. Decuria Assensia. The decuria assensia shall consist of assensi
(personal assistants), who shall undertake those administrative and other
functions as shall be assigned to them by the consul who they are assisting.
Members of the decuria assensia shall be appointed by the consuls.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 4/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:39 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA SENATORIA
In accordance with paragraph IV.A.2.c. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Senatoria is hereby enacted to establish the guidelines by which
the censors may add names to the list of Senators which they maintain.
I. Any individual elected to the office of consul, censor, or praetor
urbanis shall automatically be included in the album Senatorum (assuming
that the individual was not already a member of the Senate).
II. Any individual elected to the office of curule aedile or plebian aedile,
or appointed to the office of provincial governor may, at the discretion of
the censors, be included in the album Senatorum six months after assuming
office (assuming that the individual was not already a member of the
Senate).
III. Upon issuance of a Senatus consultum nominating an individual to
membership in the Senate, the censors may, at their discretion, include that
individual in the album Senatorum.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 5/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:41 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA RATIO COMITIA CENTURIATA
In accordance with paragraph III.B. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Ratio Comitia Centuriata is hereby enacted to set forth the rules
and procedures for debate and the taking of votes within the comitia
centuriata.
I. A consul or urban praetor may call the comitia centuriata to vote on a
law, hear a legal case, or elect magistrates as described in paragraph
III.B. of the Constitution of Nova Roma. The following procedure shall be
used:
A. The presiding magistrate shall, in a public forum (such as the
official email list, the official web site, or other venues which shall be
provided for the purpose) convene the comitia and publish one or more of the
following, along with the deadline by which voting must be completed:
1. In the case of a law, the content of the rogationes (proposals
to be voted upon). While each proposal must deal with only a single topic,
multiple proposals may be considered and voted on by the comitia at the same
time.
2. In the case of a magisterial election, the names of the
candidates and the offices for which they stand.
3. In the case of a legal case, the charges, names of the
litigants, and consequences facing the defendant.
B. The people shall thenceforth engage in contio (discussion) of the
various proposals, candidates, or merits of the case. This trinundium
(period of discussion) shall last until three nundinae (market days) have
passed. Voting on the proposal shall begin following the first market day
following the publication of the proposal.
C. The rogatores (election officials) shall, with the assistance of the
censors, tally the vote and present the result to the presiding magistrate.
Voting shall be done by centuries; a plurality of the members of each
century shall determine the vote of the century as a whole. A plurality of
the centuries shall then decide the issue. The presiding magistrate shall
then publish the result of the vote in at least the same forum as the
original vote was called.
II. Leges satura, which are laws which deal with more than one topic, may
not be enacted by the comitia centuriata. Laws dealing with different
aspects of the same topic shall not fall into this category.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 6/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:43 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA RATIO COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
In accordance with paragraph III.C. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Ratio Comitia Plebis Tributa is hereby enacted to set forth the
rules and procedures for debate and the taking of votes within the comitia
plebis tributa.
I. A tribune of the plebs may call the comitia plebis tributa to vote on a
law, hear a legal case, or elect magistrates as described in paragraph
III.C. of the Constitution of Nova Roma. The following procedure shall be
used:
A. The presiding magistrate shall, in a public forum (such as the
official email list, the official web site, or other venues which shall be
provided for the purpose) convene the comitia and publish one or more of the
following, along with the deadline by which voting must be completed:
1. In the case of a law, the content of the rogationes (proposals
to be voted upon). While each proposal must deal with only a single topic,
multiple proposals may be considered and voted on by the comitia at the same
time.
2. In the case of a magisterial election, the names of the
candidates and the offices for which they stand.
3. In the case of a legal case, the charges, names of the
litigants, and consequences facing the defendant.
B. The people shall thenceforth engage in contio (discussion) of the
various proposals, candidates, or merits of the case. This trinundium
(period of discussion) shall last at least three days, and one nundinae
(market day) must have passed during the interval. Voting on the proposal
shall begin the day following the publication of the proposal.
C. The rogatores (election officials) shall, with the assistance of the
censors, tally the vote and present the result to the presiding magistrate.
Voting shall be done by tribes; a plurality of the members of each tribe
shall determine the vote of the tribe as a whole. A plurality of the tribes
shall then decide the issue. The presiding magistrate shall then publish the
result of the vote in at least the same forum as the original vote was
called.
II. Leges satura, which are laws which deal with more than one topic, may
not be enacted by the comitia plebis tributa. Laws dealing with different
aspects of the same topic shall not fall into this category.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 7/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:45 -0400 |
|
LEX VEDIA RATIO COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
In accordance with paragraph III.D. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Vedia Ratio Comitia Populi Tributa is hereby enacted to set forth the
rules and procedures for debate and the taking of votes within the comitia
populi tributa.
I. A consul or urban praetor may call the comitia populi tributa to vote on
a law, hear a legal case, or elect magistrates as described in paragraph
III.D. of the Constitution of Nova Roma. The following procedure shall be
used:
A. The presiding magistrate shall, in a public forum (such as the
official email list, the official web site, or other venues which shall be
provided for the purpose) convene the comitia and publish one or more of the
following, along with the deadline by which voting must be completed:
1. In the case of a law, the content of the rogationes (proposals
to be voted upon). While each proposal must deal with only a single topic,
multiple proposals may be considered and voted on by the comitia at the same
time.
2. In the case of a magisterial election, the names of the
candidates and the offices for which they stand.
3. In the case of a legal case, the charges, names of the
litigants, and consequences facing the defendant.
B. The people shall thenceforth engage in contio (discussion) of the
various proposals, candidates, or merits of the case. This trinundium
(period of discussion) shall last at least three days, and one nundinae
(market day) must have passed during the interval. Voting on the proposal
shall begin the day following the publication of the proposal.
C. The rogatores (election officials) shall, with the assistance of the
censors, tally the vote and present the result to the presiding magistrate.
Voting shall be done by tribes; a plurality of the members of each tribe
shall determine the vote of the tribe as a whole. A plurality of the tribes
shall then decide the issue. The presiding magistrate shall then publish the
result of the vote in at least the same forum as the original vote was
called.
II. Leges satura, which are laws which deal with more than one topic, may
not be enacted by the comitia plebis tributa. Laws dealing with different
aspects of the same topic shall not fall into this category.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 8/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:47 -0400 |
|
DECRETUM RATIO COMITIA CURIATA
In accordance with paragraph III.A. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Decretum Comitia Curiata is hereby enacted to set forth the rules and
procedures for the actions of the comitia curiata.
I. The pontifex maximus shall convene the comitia curitata between the time
of the annual magisterial elections and January 1st, when said magistrates
assume their office. At such a time, the lictores curiata shall invest the
newly incoming magistrate with the Imperium necessary to fulfill their
offices, as required by paragraph III.A.1. of the Constitution of Nova Roma,
by the issuance of a lex curiata de imperio (law of Imperium granted by the
curiae).
II. Should a special election be held to fill a vacancy in a magistracy that
requires the investment of Imperium, the pontifex maximus shall convene the
comitia curiata for the issuance of a lex curiata de imperio between the
announcement of the results of the election and the next nundinae (market
day).
III. The pontifex maximus may also convene the comitia curiata at any time
to act as witnesses to the appointment of priests of the Religio Romana,
adoptions, the recording of wills and for other purposes germane to the
conduct of the Religio Romana as he shall deem appropriate.
|
| Subject: |
Proposed New Legislation: 9/9 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:34:50 -0400 |
|
SENATUS CONSULTUM PRO RATIO SENATUS
In accordance with paragraph V.D. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Senatus Consultum Pro Ratio Senatus is hereby enacted to set forth the rules
and procedures for debate and the taking of votes in the Senate.
I. The Senate may be convened by a consul, urban praetor, or tribune of the
plebs. This is done by informing all of the members of the Senate, plus the
tribunes of the plebs (if they are not already members of the Senate) no
less than twenty-four hours prior to the Senate being formally convened.
II. The presiding magistrate may then convene the Senate and do the
following:
A. Either present one or more matters for their consideration, and/or
yield the floor to a member of the Senate or another magistrate, who shall
do so;
B. If debate is being conducted via electronic mail, inform the Senate
the length of time that shall be allowed to participate in debate on the
matters at hand (between 24 and 72 hours);
C. If voting is being conducted via electronic mail, inform the Senate
the length of time that shall be allowed to cast votes on the matters at
hand (between 24 and 48 hours).
III. Once the matters for discussion have been presented, each of the
members of the Senate may, in turn, offer their opinions thereon. The debate
shall be limited to the members of the Senate, the presiding magistrate, and
the tribunes of the plebs (who shall keep the people informed as to the
progress and content of the debate). There shall be no limit on the length
of the opinions rendered, but the procedure shall differ slightly, depending
on the mode of communication:
A. When debate is being conducted via electronic mail, each Senator
shall have beween twenty-four and seventy-two hours to issue his opinion.
Should that time elapse, the Senator shall be assumed to have abbrogated his
right to speak on the issues at hand (but such shall not be considered a
waiver of the right to vote thereon). A Senator who is unable to vote may,
during the debate, give his proxy to another member of the Senate, as long
as such is done openly and within the prescribed period of debate.
B. When debate is being conducted via means that allow real-time
communication (such as Internet chat, teleconferencing, or live meeting),
each Senator shall be given the opportunity to speak in order of seniority.
Records of Senatorial seniority shall be maintained by the censors,
according to the following formula:
1. Former censors, consuls, and urban praetors, in that order;
2. Ties in seniority shall be decided in favor of patricians over
plebians;
3. Further ties in seniority shall be decided by age, with
seniority being given to the older individual.
IV. Once each Senator has been given the opportunity to state his position
on the issues under discussion, the presiding magistrate shall call the
issue to a vote. Voting shall be done openly before those privy to the
debate, and shall be decided by majority vote unless otherwise mandated. The
method of voting depends on the mode of communication:
A. When voting is being conducted via electronic mail, each Senator
shall have between twenty-four and forty-eight hours to cast his vote.
Should that time elapse, the Senator shall be assumed to have abbrogated his
right to vote on the issues at hand.
B. When voting is being conducted via means that allow real-time
communication, voting shall be done by a show of hands.
V. Once voting on the matters at hand is complete, the tribunes of the plebs
shall inform the people of the outcome of the vote and the presiding
magistrate shall officially end the meeting of the Senate.
|
| Subject: |
Valete... |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:34:45 +0100 |
|
Salvete
Departing for holidays!!!
The Gods of Rome bless you all and Nova Roma. I shall miss you!!!!
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis et coetera
|
| Subject: |
Re: Valete... |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:39:36 -0700 |
|
LOL leaving just when we got all of this Legislation to examine... Just
kidding Graecus...have a good time.... :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:34 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Valete...
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
> Salvete
>
> Departing for holidays!!!
>
> The Gods of Rome bless you all and Nova Roma. I shall miss you!!!!
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Tribunus Plebis et coetera
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> See homepage for details on ONElist's new "FRIENDS & FAMILY" program.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication |
| From: |
Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:14:22 -0400 (EDT) |
|
-- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------; wrote:
> religio [restricted]--ask Pythia;
What's her email?
I passionately desire subscription.
Valete et khairete,
-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar/Andreia *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: [operations] The List-Main Line of Communication |
| From: |
Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:19:12 -0400 (EDT) |
|
I'm a newbie....
--- Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> wrote:
> On the topic of 'one List or several, and what ought to be on this
> one'...why don't we ask the newbies? Concern for their concerns has
> been one of the pivot-points of this debate thus far; why not ask them
> directly:
> -- What sorts of discussions were you hoping to see on the Main List
> when you first subscribed?
More on Roman issues... not just political ones. I'd like to learn more about
the organization, what it does, why people are here, and what makes this place
important to them.
I'd love to hear more about the set up of the Religio around here as well.
> -- What sorts of discussions have you actually found?
Good ones, here and there.... :) Not all what I expected, though....
> -- Have you been satisfied with the topics and level of discussion on
> the Main List thus far? Has it met your expectations?
> -- If not, how could it best be gotten to meet them:
> -- separate List(s) for public stuff vs. personal stuff?*
That's a good idea, and is being implemented.
> -- separate Lists(s) for each major interest-area?*
Yes. This seems to work ok for ADF....
> -- keep everything on the Main List but more
> strictly-moderated?**
The traffic level would be insane...
> -- keep everything on the Main List and hope your fellow Nova
> Romans will eventually develop some sense of decorum? [dodges
> thrown objects!] >({|;-P
The traffic would cause me to go overquota in seconds...
> We actually do have several 'interest-group' Lists, btw; a
> well-intentioned newbie formed about half a dozen of them some months
> back, which are still there and haven't seen much traffic; two others
> that actually *get* traffic are both restricted Lists, meaning the
> moderator has to approve your subscription request. None of them are
> 'moderated' in the sense described above. So far there are:
> religio [restricted]--ask Pythia;
I want on!!!! I want on!!
> ViaTrames (brand-new; intended as a public Back Alley);
> (the well-intentioned newbie's Lists:)
On already.
> NovaRoma_Religion (for Roman Pagan and other religious topics);
> (other independent Lists:)
Where is it?? I want on!!
> So, newbies, what do you think? I'll let anyone here decide for
> themselves if they qualify as a 'newbie'; I'm hoping for good feedback,
> or at least to meet some of you guys and give you a good chance to
> 'de-lurk'!
Been around for only 2 months, applied way longer than that ago, but that's ok
:>
I guess I count as a newbie...
Valete et khairete,
-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar/Andreia *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-
|
| Subject: |
Re: Provinciae in Europa (long) |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:30:45 -0400 |
|
Salvete Marce Promethe et alii
Thank you for replying to my message.
<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">>From: Marco Guasti <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
>
>> 1. Would it really offend people in this situation to belong to a NR
>> provincia so named, that is, by the "trans-" convention, given that NR is
a
>
>If they think a moment about it, my respectful but educated guess for
>most of them would be just YES even if the would not realize fully why.
>Even I, until you insisted on the subject, did'nt realize so well and
>clearly the full absurdity of TransGermania and TransDacia.
>I stated the two nanes are correctly constructed in Latin but I was
>wrong, they are not at all as NOUNS, they could be so constructed as
>adjectivesm but in a different sense.
Hmmm...I read your argument here and cannot think of a single
counter-example. You are right, forming a territorial name using the
"trans-" convention in this way may be a novelty. But, I do have a couple
of things to say in this regard:
1. You have made your case that the latin prefix "trans-" ("across") would
be used to form adjectives meaning "beyond x" where x is a river, mountain
range et cetera. This makes sense, since those things would have been
obstacles. This rule could certainly be extended for the purpose of naming
NR provinces to cover not only obstacles but entire countries. If NR
decides to continue using the names TransDacia and TransGermania, we should
either accept what you have said and realize that some of our province names
deviate significantly from classical Latin, or, refute what you have said
with counter examples. As I said, I have no such counter examples.
2. The innovative (or wrong, depending on how you want to look at it)
application of "trans-" has been made. Should we correct it? Does
deviation from the classical rules of the "trans-" convention bother us,
please us, or not matter at all? Perhaps we could modify the names to make
them adjectival, like Provincia Transgermanica, or Provincia Transdacia (we
would of course drop the word provincia for typical use). What has more
euphony?
>It would have been absurd. If you are mr. Y , you are not well
>described as
>"mr. not X" or "mr. beyond X". The reason? even if it were true,
>such statement would be just an insignificant part of the whole truth.
> This would define a very very small aspect of your BEING.
Good point.
>This is the common sense reason by which we never never absolutely never
(more good points and copious examples deleted for space)
>
>Not of the country or region of Transaharia or Transatlantia.
Transatlantia....sounds catchy! Do you think that we can convince the
Council of Europe to adopt this name for unified Europe? :)
>
>Exceptions? NONE!
>Apparently there was an exception in Czarist Russian region of
>TransCaucasia, but only apparently as such TransCaucasia did NOT extend
(deletion)
>
>
>> 2. Do these people, potential applicants for NR citizenship, think of
>> themselves as Dacians, Scythians, Sarmatians et cetera? I mean, I may
joke
>> that I'm half Samnite because my paternal ancestors going back a few
>
>Myself in Italy I am from Tuscany, so a Tuscanian in modern terms.
>In the moment when I imagine myself in the settings of 2 millenniums ago
is the moment when you begin to imagine. Marce Promethe, you're probably as
Etrurian as I am Volscian.
>as
>Marcus Prometheus I belong to a region which was then called Etruria, so
>I can think of myself as an Etrurian. If I think to 3 millenniums ago in
>proper Etruscan language I would be a RASENNA.
>If I were jew or just interested in ancient Israel and I imagined to
>belong to some jewish ancient community let's say of Palmyra I would
>never FEEL EXACTLY DESCRIBED if this jewish community was defined
>TRANSLIBANIAN or TRANSARMENIAN or CISARABIAN or TRANSARABIAN, it depends
>all from the point of wiew.
Oh no, let's not get into those "trans-" names again! :)
>And my point of view, my center would be Gerusalem, nothing else.
>This just very very coldly and intellectually.
>Then if my feelings in favour or against one of the terms were for some
>reasons of my belief or history partucularly strong, then I could be not
>only intellectually unsatisfied by the definition, but just outraged.
I don't understand that outrage. How can you be outraged about a mistake in
naming the province of a new country? Because you feel that your identity
has been slandered? I'm perplexed.
>For me it is simple like that.
>Some people feels strongly their nationality.
I think that modern history suggests that nationalism is dangerous in large
doses. I feel some nationalism myself, by the way. As for being an
Etrurian, or a Rasenna, et cetera, those ethnicities are long extinct. It
seems to me that their
> For me, my nationality is ROMANITAS.
I think of Romanitas as a personal trait or quality more than as a
nationality. I do believe, however, that a group of people could strive to
imbue themsleves with Romanitas, and, in conjointly striving to do that,
share a community. If that is nationality, I am all for it.
My patriotism goes straigth to all
>neolatin countries, European and Latin Americans, I am European and I
>like it, I'm proud of it, but I also recognize and usually appreciate
>American leadership of the free world and for our civilization.
This is interesting. I feel nationalism toward the US and could argue,
though, that we (USA) are leading maybe too much, not so much in the right
direction. But it's all hopefully off-topic.
>Do you remember about the Sigonella episode of Italian Usa confrontation
>when perhaps a dozen years ago the good modern centurions of U.S. Air
No I don't remember. Point taken though.
>I just do not want to offend you but I would like to understand your
>Romanitas.
>Is not a kind of patriotism and sense of brotherhood with fellow neo
>latins peoples? And with all fond of ancient Roman civilization?
I'm not offended. To me, Romanitas is like the sum of all the virtues,
especially pietas, dignitas and gravitas, in one person and shared in a
community. Perfect Romanitas is probably like perfect anything else, quite
unachievable. I think that Romanitas does not currently exist in the world
as a nationality, because nationality is a special case of ethnicity, isn't
it?
language + religion + customs + philosophies = ethnicity (please forgive
simplification)
ethnicity + shared political history = nationality
It is debatable, when Romanitas as a nationality was extinguished. Maybe
sometime around the time of Romulus Augustolus, maybe earlier, maybe not
until Justinian's time, maybe not until the fall of Constantinople to the
Turks. It has not existed as a nationality for some time, that I can say
with confidence.
>
>> You have a better handle on the ancient names of these areas than I do,
>> that's for sure.
>
>Don't you have an historic atlas ? I love to collect them In Italy
>really I have many. I love to study them an they bear the ancient names
>for the ancient times
>maps.
I have a couple. You have perhaps read yours more thoroughly than I have
mine.
>
>> >
>
>The core of the problem is not economics logistics or demography !
>They ar muslims akin ti the turks (not modern turks but turks of before
>their settling in Anatolia) or to the Iranians or to the Mongolians so
>they emotionally do not belong to our civilizations. It is not me who
>says it, i'ts them.
>Islam is together Statal allegiance often also national allegiance,and
>Their dreams simply are not ours. You cannot force them to take ours
>either.
>They dream the Prophet and his generals military glories or in the best
>case the link with Europe is Spain's Moorish high civilization and some
>hellenistic -arab philosopher and mathematician or Saladdin or the
>Hashemite friends of Lawrence of Arabia or perhaps the great figure of
>Omar Khayamm.
>Do you imagin they could tolerate pagan talks?
I am pretty sure that there is at least one Nova Roman, a pretty prominent
one at that, from a traditionally Moslem area. Of course I have trouble
seeing devout Moslems joining Nova Roma. In fact, I can say the same of
devout Christians, except for those devout Christians who believe, not
without basis, that their interpretation of Christianity is akin to an
ancient Roman Christianity. And, even in the latter case, there will no
doubt always be some conflict, internal and otherwise.
But, of all the Kazakhs I know, who number in the dozens, only two have been
anything like practicing Moslems. Most of them have been atheistic
materialists, as are too many of the Russians that I know. It seems to me
that people in Russia, Kazakhstan and elsewhere in the former Soviet Union
would in many cases be interested in something more than the currently
prevailing atheistic materialism. Religio Romana and Romanitas are things
that can appeal to some people there, if only a few. But that's just my
opinion.
>Also all the provinces of Africa are absolutely empty cases destined to
>stay so.
Not necessarily. A few Nova Romans may eventually join from Africa.
>> Hold on. Transdacia is not Ukraine. "Transdacia" could mean-
>>
>Hold on:
> TransDacia could be perhaps a Moto rally crossing historic Dacians
>regions from Szeghed on the Tysza (Tibiscus) to Bucarest in Romania, to
>Kishinau in Moldavia, to Tirasopol (if Smirnov will be defeated) to
>Odessa if The Ukranians consent.
OK, you have proved your point very well on TransDacia. You have made a
good linguistic argument that the name is incorrect. But I still disagree
that the name should be changed for historic/political reasons.
>> The fact that the boundaries of a) may be represented by those of
Ukraine,
>> the modern nation state, does not mean that the two entities are one and
the
>> same.
>
>Do you think they are the same borders ny chance ???????????????????????
>Even if so it is still an absurd.
The boundaries are the same by convenience, nothing more and nothing less,
in my opinion. Nova Roma has been trying to develop quickly; it is not
evolving naturally, so to speak; we have skipped the tribal and monarchic
phases of development and jumped right into the Republic, and have/had/will
probably have a written constitution to help us along.
Of course TransDacia is not Ukraine. If it were, then Ukraine would be a
province of Nova Roma, governed by a praetor. Kuchma would be out of a job!
Nova Roma's administrative divisions should not be confused with the
territorial boundaries of macronations, never, never, never.
>>
>> Thank you for that historical background! I'm no fan of Igor Smirnov and
>> the Tiraspol crowd, but I believe that those events are beyond the scope
of
>> this list, and so I won't be expanding on that here.
>
>
>I do respectfully keep just the opposite opinion, and for this I would
>like to understand you better as I asked before. What is romanitas for
>you?
I have always been a lover of things Roman. When I read Epictetus for the
first time, I felt like I was remembering it rather than discovering it.
No, I'm not arguing that I'm reincarnated, but I am telling you that I feel
a strong affinity for Roma and the beginnings of Romanitas in me (pietas,
dignitas, gravitas).
>>
>> Marce Promethe, we cannot right historical wrongs by re-writing the map
of
>> our provinces. Just as pagans cannot change history by omitting
Constantine
>> from the chronology,
>
>In Theory we could rigth some historic wrong, but here, attention , I am
I said "by re-writing the map of our provinces".
>not speaking of thoes real world historic wrong.
>{ The only connection with real world could be some lobbying to free
>Ilie Ilascu & cfriends.)
Is that what Nova Roma should do, or what you intend to do? E-mail me
privately if you know of some way (letter campaign?) in this regard.
>
>Unfortunately I do admit that here in Noiva Roma we cannot rigth true
>HISTORICAL WRONGS, and I am not adept of rewriting history ignoring
>Constantine (we can just tell the truth about him and it is bad enough).
Right, but crossing his name out is worse. It's very "Nova Moscova" as you
put it below.
>
>
>I just want to rigth a NOVA ROMA geographical, linguistic and
>ideological wrong.
You are, in my view, very much capable of pointing the way to righing
geographical and linguistic wrongs. But there are no ideological wrongs
here to right, not in the area of what to call province x.
>
>If it is true that N R inspires itself referring to the History of
>Rome, and particularly to the late republican period,then, I consider:
>
>1) Geographically Moldavia Kishinau was never part of something called
>TransDacia
I believe you.
>2) Since the sixth century b.c. the Geto Dacians inhabited all the lands
>between
>the Tibiscus and the Nistrus (Dnester)
>In the first centuries after the legions came, briefly stayd in 2 thirds
>of Dacia and then left, romanization began and went on after even to
>parts of Dacia unattained by the legions. So we don't have a date or an
>episode "dating" the disappearing of Dacian language, and the peaceful,
>frewilling romanization, but Romano Dacians continue the Dacians.
Right, so where's the outrage? There aren't any Dacians, haven't been for a
long time, and noone is trying to insult them or their memory anyway.
>3) Romanodacians survive barbarian invasions and absorb invaders.
>4) The first Slav state of Kiev confirms the traditional eastern border
>of the Nistrus River for 90% of the course of the river. Only the
>springs and first chilometers of the river in the north and for a very
>small mounaineous area called Pocutia belonged to Kiev for maybe one or
>2 centuries until the Mongolian Tatars arrived. The Pocutia belonged to
>Poland. The border between latins and Slavs always was at the Nistrus.
>The Russians empire appared on the river border just with the partition
>of Poland, and confirmed it, but just a few years after, in 1812 the
>insatiable Czarists Russians occupy the first time Eastern Moldavia and
>begin denationalization.
"insatiable?" If I didn't know better, I'd think that you were trying to
stir up anti-Russian sentiment with that word. And it would be funny if you
did, because the Romans were pretty "insatiable" about territory too,
especially in the early Principate.
>5) Anyway the latins still are 2 thirds in Moldova, and trace their
>ancestors to the Romans and to the Dacians.
I thought that something like 90% of Moldova was Romanian. But then,
Romanians aren't Latins, that is, not latini. Unless one accepts that all
Italians, French, Portuguese et cetera are Latins too. To me, so much
history has happened with all these peoples that they have formed new
national identities. Rome is in the foundation of those cultures, but
they're not Rome.
>6) A roman Lupa ( She Wolf with Romulus and Remus) )is in a Kishinay
>square, and even if nowdays Moldova keeps his independence forgetting or
>delaying re-union to Romania, still they trace their ancestors to Dacia
>and Rome.
And some Croats claim that they are descended from Etruscans, or Hittites.
Maybe they are.
That Romanian ethnicity is in large part derivative of extended Rome I have
no objection. But it does not follow --
- that Romanians are Romans, or Latins (unless you define "Latins"
differently from my definition on this list, namely, the Italic people in
central Italy when Rome was founded and until the principate)
- that the territory that is now Moldova should be specially separated and
re-named to distinguish it from the territory of Ukraine, within the
framework of the system of province-naming of Nova Roma
>Do the Nova Romans have any moral rigth to insult most of them?
Apparently, to insult requires no right nor effort. I don't believe that
anyone meant to insult anyone else with the names of our provinces. Surely
you can understand that.
>To insult history ??? But Why ?????? Just for ignorance ??????
Yes, I believe that any mistakes in naming provinces invariably would stem
from ignorance, not malice.
>But why to take exception from their own points of reference?????????
So far, the main point of my disagreement with you lies in my failure to
understand how one can find reprehensible identification of a territory name
with another, especially when both names belong to ancient history.
Had you right from the start proposed changing province names on the basis
of accuracy by adducing your rules of the "trans-" convention, I probably
would have less (maybe no?) disagreement. But the crux of your argument, as
I perceive it, is more the "injustice" of the association of one ancient
people with another. This I find to be, well, wrong.
>And if so do they remain Nova ROMANS ?????? Then what is Rome for them
>?????
But that's the key. Anyone who belongs to a NR province is a Nova Roman.
Noone is Nova Britannian, TransDacian, Thulean, are they?
If they are, I believe that they are bringing elements into Nova Roma that
are hardly universal. There's nothing wrong with identifying with the
history of a particular Roman province, but don't be surprised when someone
from the other side of the world has no clue what you mean.
Now, one can be Nova Roman, while also being Italian; or Nova Roman, while
being American; or Nova Roman, while being Italian American; but you
cannot be Nova Roman while being Dacian!
>
>Divine Mercury and Apollo ! Is this Nova Roma or Nova Moscova ?????
I like that coinage.
>
>It seems so absurd to me.
My thoughts exactly.
>
>
>After bothering to read this data I trust it will appear absurd even to
>you.
>
Yes, the data truly has taken on the look of the absurd....no, I'm just
making a lousy joke. You convinced me of some linguistic problem with the
"trans-" names. On other counts, I stubbornly disagree.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
civis Novae Romae
>
> Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
> Italian citzen since birth, Romanian citzen since last year
> NOVA ROMA Applicant for citzenship
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Decorum |
| From: |
Steven Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:46:45 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes et Salve Marius,
Venator here;
Reminds me of an apocryphal anecdote said to revolve around Gaius Iulius
Caesar. He was asked how he was able to shape street toughs and other
assorted thugs into soldiers, plus keeping them from devolving into a mob.
His reply was basically that there are really only three differemces between
a mob and an army: custom, tradition and discipline.
Marius Fimbria wrote:
>
> Salvete iterum:
>
> > -- keep everything on the Main List and hope your fellow Nova
> > Romans will eventually develop some sense of decorum? [dodges
> > thrown objects!] >({|;-P
>
> On reflection, I realized I was only half-kidding; what the Hacker's
> Dictionary refers to as 'Ha-Ha, Only Serious'. This evening I chanced
> upon the following passage, in one of the first books I ever read about
> the Romans:
>
> What constitutes Rome's greatness, i(snip) the idea of discipline, the
> soldier's fundamental idea. (surgery)
>
> -- Edith Hamilton, _The Roman Way_, Pp.193-4, 197-8
>
> I have seen and, in the main, been gratified by the amount of passion
> everyone here has put into Nova Roma. It is to be hoped that we may
> yet see demonstrations of that discipline which, in holding such
> passions in check, became the signal characteristic of the Roman
> people...and without which we are in no wise fit to call ourselves
> their heirs.
>
> Mea sententia...
>
Thought this might amuse.
In Amicus - Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 0/6 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:53:21 -0700 |
|
Thank you for posting the Constitution to the list....approximately when
would you like to formally adopt the Constitution into law? An approximate
date to end the debate so to speak. Thank you for your input!
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 0/6
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> Salvete!
>
> As promised, here is the proposed rewrite of the Constitution, designed to
> fix the problems that left our government impotent and unable to take any
> action. I've also taken the opportunity to make some corrections to those
> things that were historically inaccurate, and restructured it somewhat.
>
> Following this, I'm going to post the various laws and decreta (priestly
> decrees) that the system will need to work. (The laws cover the
> nuts-and-bolts procedural stuff; I wanted to put them in as laws rather
than
> build them into the Constitution, so they'd be easier to change if need
be.)
> I am still working on the rules by which the collegium pontificum is to
work
> in consultation with our esteemed Pontifex Maximus. They'll be posted when
> they're done.
>
> Please review these and offer up any comments; it's not too late to make
> changes. The one thing I ask-- read it _all_ before you start firing off
> questions. Something that may not be clear in message #1 might very well
be
> explained in message #4.
>
> This represents the "end-game" of my term as Dictator. After this, I
intend
> to fill some of the newly created positions, and I fully expect to be able
> to lay down my office next week.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Dictator
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 2/6 Question |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:03:04 -0700 |
|
Salvete Germanicus,
I have a question/suggestion. Do you think there should be a limit on the
ages of the Pater/Materfamilias, due to the responsibility of the position?
Having 18 and 19 year olds as parents responsible for the maintaince of a
Gens? A family with responsibilty, let alone the respect to our ancestors?
Sorry if I am not explaining myself clearly, hence why I am asking this
question.
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 2/6
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> II. Citizens and Gentes
> A. Citizenship
> 1. Any person fifteen years of age or older may apply for
> citizenship (persons aged 15-17 must obtain the written permission of
their
> parent or legal guardian).
> 2. Citizenship is open to anyone regardless of ethnic heritage,
> gender, religious affiliation, or sexual orientation.
> 3. Persons under the age of fifteen years may (with the written
> permission of their parent or legal guardian) petition the paterfamilias
of
> a gens for admission. Should the paterfamilias consent, that person shall
be
> considered a member of the gens and may participate in the religious and
> social life of Nova Roma. Such gens members who are not full citizens are
> the sole responsibility of the paterfamilias, and need not be registered
> with the censors.
> 4. Citizenship may be involuntarily revoked by those means that
> shall be established by law, or may be voluntarily relinquished by
> notification of the censors or by public statement before three or more
> witnesses.
> B. The following rights of the citizens shall be guaranteed, but this
> enumeration shall not be taken to exclude other rights that citizens may
> possess:
> 1. Complete authority over their own personal and household
rites,
> rituals, and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this Constitution
> mandates participation in the rites of the Religio Romana, such as the
case
> of magistrates and Senators;
> 2. The right and obligation to remain subject to the civil
rights
> and laws of the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship,
> regardless of their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma;
> 3. The right to vote in elections as members of their various
> comitia on matters brought before the People in such manner as described
in
> this Constitution;
> 4. The right to participate in all public forums and
discussions,
> and the right to reasonably expect such forums to be supported by the
State.
> Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by
> the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
> Republic;
> 5. The right of provocato; to appeal a decision of a magistrate
> that has a direct negative impact upon that citizen to the comitia populi
> tributa;
> 6. The right to remain sovereign and secure within one's own
home,
> person, and property;
> 7. The right to seek and receive assistance and advice from the
> State in matters of religious and social dispute occurring both within and
> outside the direct jurisdiction of Nova Roma; and,
> 8. The right to pursue business enterprises within Nova Roma
> through the institution of the ordo equester (equestrian order), and the
> right to receive reasonable encouragement to build a strong economy
through
> Roman-oriented commerce; the only restrictions being those informational
and
> other materials copyrighted by the State, which shall remain the property
of
> the State.
> C. The Orders. Even though members of the three orders are equal
under
> the eyes of the law, the institution of the orders is significant enough
> that it is perpetuated in Nova Roma. There are three orders into which all
> Citizens fall:
> 1. Ordo patris (patrician order). The patrician order shall
> consist of belonging to those gentes that were among the first thirty to
> join Nova Roma. Should one of these spots become vacant, the censors shall
> have the power to elevate a plebeian gens to patrician status in its
place.
> 2. Ordo equester (equestrian order). The equestrian order shall
> consist of plebeian citizens who are engaged in the conduct of commerce
> (preferably with a Roman theme) who request and are granted entry into the
> equestrian order by the censors. Such individuals are expected to
contribute
> a portion of the revenue derived from Nova Roma back to the State, and
> receive reasonable encouragement in their enterprises in return. For
> purposes of participating in the comitia, holding office, etc. members of
> the equestrian order shall be considered to be of the plebeian order.
> 3. Ordo plebis (plebeian order). The plebeian order shall
consist
> of individuals who do not belong to either the patrician or equestrian
> orders.
> D. Gentes. Families and clans being the backbone of Roman society,
the
> prerogatives and responsibilities of the family are of primary importance
to
> Nova Roma. Except where specifically dealt with in this constitution and
the
> law, each gens shall have the right to determine its own course of action,
> and parents shall have the undisputed right and responsibility to see to
the
> education and raising of their children.
> 1. Each gens shall be registered with the censors, who will
> maintain records of gens membership and other relevant information.
> 2. No two gentes may have the same nomen (surname) unless they
are
> differentiated by an agnomen. The censors shall be responsible for
ensuring
> this rule is observed.
> 3. Each gens shall, through whatever means it may determine
> appropriate, have a paterfamilias (fem. materfamilias) who shall act as
the
> leader of the gens and speak for it when necessary. The holder of this
> position must be registered as such with the censors. The paterfamilias
may,
> at his discretion, expel members of their gens, or accept new members into
> it.
> E. Tribes and Centuries
> 1. There shall exist thirty-five tribes, into which the censors
> shall divide all of the citizens. Thirty-one of these tribes shall be
> designated the Rural tribes, and shall be assigned as directed by law
passed
> by the comitia populi tributa. Four of these tribes shall be designated
the
> urban tribes, and shall be made up of those citizens who fail to vote in
the
> annual magisterial elections. Should a member of an urban tribe
subsequently
> vote in an annual magisterial election, he or she shall be reassigned to a
> rural tribe.
> 2. There shall exist one hundred and ninety-three centuries,
into
> which the censors shall divide all of the citizens. The exact composition
of
> these centuries shall be determined by law passed by the comitia
centuriata,
> but shall be weighted in favor of those citizens who have shown the
greatest
> commitment to Nova Roma, both by contribution and time enrolled as a
> citizen.
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Your anytime, anywhere sports store. Fogdog Sports.
> <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/fogdog1" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/fogdog1</a> ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 3/6 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:31:02 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 3/6
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> III. Comitia
> A. The comitia curiata (Assembly of Curiae) shall be made up of
thirty
> lictores curiatae (curia lictors), appointed to their position by the
> collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs). It shall be called to order by
> the Pontifex Maximus, and the collegium pontificum shall set the rules by
> which the comitia curiata shall operate internally. It shall have the
> following responsibilities:
> 1. To invest elected and appointed magistrates with the Imperium
> necessary to employ coercitio (the power to compel obedience to his or her
> edicts, subject to the right of provocatio but under penalties determined
by
> law), interpret and execute law, and possess the honor of being preceeded
by
> lictors as a symbol of office;
SULLA: Regarding this above quote? Since it is giving Imperium to the
Magistrates. Wouldnt the task of interpreting the law lay with the
Magistrates who have been granted Imperium via the Comitia? Or is it
already giving that power to the Magistrates?
> 2. To witness the appointment of official priests and
priestesses
> of the Religio Romana, adoptions, and the recording of wills.
> B. The comitia centuriata (Assembly of Centuries) shall be made up of
> all of the citizens, grouped into their respective centuries. While it
shall
> be called to order by either a consul or an urban praetor, only the
comitia
> centuriata shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall operate
> internally. It shall have the following powers:
> 1. To enact laws binding upon the entire citizenry;
> 2. To elect the consuls, praetors, and censors;
> 3. To try legal cases in which the defendant is subject to
> permanent removal of citizenship.
> C. The comitia plebis tributa (Assembly of the Plebeians) shall be
made
> up of all non-patrician citizens, grouped into their respective tribes.
> While it shall be called to order by a tribune of the plebs, only the
> comitia plebis tributa shall pass laws governing the rules by which it
shall
> operate internally. It shall have the following powers:
> 1. To enact plebiscites with the force of law, binding upon the
> entire citizenry;
> 2. To elect the plebeian aediles and tribunes of the plebs;
> 3. To try legal cases solely involving members of the plebeian
> order that do not involve permanent removal of citizenship.
>
> D. The comitia populi tributa (Assembly of the People) shall be made
up
> of all citizens, grouped into their respective tribes. While it shall be
> called to order by either a consul or an urban praetor, only the comitia
> populi tributa shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall
operate
> internally. It shall have the following powers:
> 1. To enact laws binding upon the entire citizenry;
> 2. To elect the quaestors and curule aediles;
> 3. To try legal cases that do not involve permanent removal of
> citizenship.
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 4/6 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:52:09 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 4/6
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> IV. Magistrates. Magistrates are the elected and appointed officials
> responsible for the maintenance and conduct of the affairs of state. There
> are two categories of magistrates: ordinarii (those who are ordinarily
> elected) and extraordinarii (those who are only occasionally appointed or
> elected).
> A. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follow.
> Should an office become vacant in mid-term and suitable and willing
> candidates are at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate
comitia
> to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty
> days of the vacancy (with the exception of paragraph V.D. below). Should
one
> of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate
may
> be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him.
Sulla: Who brings charges against the magistrate? A superior? I think
this should be spelled out...That is such a broad and sweeping statement.
Elections
> of the ordinarii shall take place in December, and newly-elected officials
> shall assume their offices on January 1st. An individual may not be
> re-elected to the same office in two consecutive years.
> 1. Censor. Two censors shall be elected by the comitia
centuriata
> to serve a term lasting five years. They shall have the following honors,
> powers, and obligations:
> a) To maintain the album civium (list of citizens),
including
> the tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law, and
> other appropriate information regarding them;
> b) To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and
> appropriate information regarding them;
> c) To maintain the album senatorium (list of Senators),
> including the power to add and remove names on that list according to
> qualifications set by law;
> d) To maintain the album equestro (lists of members of the
> equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on that
list;
> e) To safeguard the regimen morum (public morality and
honor)
> through the collegial administering of notae;
> (1) A nota against an ordinary individual is
sufficient
> to deprive that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
> removed;
> (2) A nota against a member of the Senate is
sufficient
> to remove that individual from the Senate until such time as it is
removed.
Sulla: Regarding the above....are both Censors necessary to complete these
functions? Is there a legal remedy as a check to prevent potential abuses?
> f) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with
administrative
> and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
> 2. Consul. Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia
> centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following
> honors, powers, and obligations:
> a) To hold Imperium and have the honor of being preceeded
by
> twelve lictors;
> b) To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in
> those tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such
edicts
> being binding upon themselves as well as others);
> c) To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the
> comitia populi tributa to order;
> d) To pronounce intercessio (intercession; a veto) against
> another consul or magistrate of lesser authority;
> e) To appoint assensi (personal assistants) to assist with
> administrative and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
> 3. Praetor Urbanus (Urban Praetor). Two urban praetors shall be
> elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They
> shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
> a) To hold Imperium and have the honor of being preceeded
by
> six lictors;
Sulla: Didnt Praetor Urbanii have 8 Lictors and Praetor's have 6 Lictors?
> b) To proclaim those edicts necessary to engage in those
> tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma and to
administer
> the law (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
> c) To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the
> comitia populi tributa to order when the Consuls are unavailable;
> d) To pronounce intercessio against another urban praetor
or
> magistrate of lesser authority;
> e) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with
administrative
> and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
> 4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aedile). Two curule aediles shall be
> elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one-year.
They
> shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
> a) To proclaim those edicts necessary to see to the conduct
> of public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
> public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
> facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such
> edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
> b) To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule
or
> plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
> c) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with
administrative
> and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
> 5. Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). Two plebeian aediles shall
be
> elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting one year.
They
> must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the following honors,
> powers, and obligations:
> a) To proclaim those edicts necessary to see to the conduct
> of public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
> public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
> facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such
> edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
> b) To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule
or
> plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
> c) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with
administrative
> and other tasks, as he shall see fit.
> 6. Quaestor. Two quaestors shall be elected by the comitia
populi
> tributa to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the power and
> obligation to administer the aerarium (treasury), and to disburse those
> funds that shall be authorized by the Senate in its annual budget. No
funds
> may be spent without the prior approval of the Senate.
> 7. Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Two tribunes of the
> plebs shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term
lasting
> one year. They must both be of the plebeian order, and shall have the
> following honors, powers, and obligations:
> a) To collegially pronounce intercessio against the actions
> of any other magistrate (with the exception of the dictator and the
> interrex), Senatus consulta, and laws passed by the comitia when they feel
> that the spirit and letter of this Constitution are being violated
thereby;
> b) To be immune from intercessio pronounced by other
> magistrates;
> c) To be privy to the debates of the Senate, and keep the
> citizens informed as to the content and progress thereof;
> d) To call the Senate and the comitia plebis tributa to
> order.
> 8. Vigintisexviri (The Twenty-Six). Collectively, the Twenty-Six
> shall be minor magistrates elected to fulfill those necessary functions as
> shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia.
> 9. Apparitores (Attendants). Collectively, the apparitores shall
> not be considered magistrates, but rather shall be appointed into various
> decuriae (corporations) to fulfill those necessary functions as shall be
> assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia. They shall include
> the lictores, lictores curiati, scribae, and assensi.
> B. The extraordinarii are as follow:
> 1. Dictator. In times of emergency, the Senate may appoint a
> dictator to serve a term not to exceed six months. At the time of such
> appointment, the Senate may prescribe a given task or boundaries within
> which the dictator is obliged to remain. The edicts of the dictator are
> absolute within his sphere of influence, and subject to neither
intercessio
> or provocato. The dictator shall hold Imperium and have the honor of being
> preceeded by twenty-four lictors. At the end of his term the actions of
the
> dictator shall be subject to final confirmation by the Senate.
Sulla: Also, I would add that that Dictator, once he/she has relinquished
his authorty cannot be held personally accountable for their actions while
they were Dictator.
> 2. Interrex. Should both consular positions be vacant at the
same
> time, the Senate shall appoint an Interrex to serve a term lasting no
longer
> than the passage of two market days. The Interrex must be a member of the
> patrician order, and shall have all the powers and responsibilities of a
> normally elected consul. The Interrex shall organize new elections in the
> comitia centuriata to elect two new consuls to serve out the remainder of
> the previous consuls' term of office.
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 5/6 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:03:51 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 3:26 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 5/6
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> V. The Senate. The supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma shall be
> embodied in its Senate. The list of Senators shall be maintained by the
> censors according to qualifications set by law. The Senate shall have the
> following honors, powers, and obligations:
> A. As the repository of experience and wisdom in the affairs of
State,
> the Senate shall have the authority to issue Senatus consulta (advice of
the
> Senate) on those topics upon which it shall see fit to comment. Such
Senatus
> consulta shall supercede magisterial edicts in precedence, but may be
> overruled by properly passed laws.
> B. No later than the last day of November of each year, the Senate
> shall prepare a budget for the following year. This budget shall deal with
> the disbursement of funds from the aerarium (treasury) to the quaestors
for
> various purposes. Even though the quaestors assigned to the consuls shall
be
> responsible for the maintenance of the entire treasury, no funds from it
may
> be disbursed without the prior approval of the Senate. The Senate may, as
> required by changing circumstances, pass supplemental Senatus consulta to
> modify the annual budget.
> C. The Senate may, by Senatus consultum, create provinciae
(provinces)
> for administrative purposes and appoint provincial governors therefor.
> 1. Governors shall have the following honors, powers, and
> obligations:
> a) To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceeded
by
> six lictors solely within the jurisdiction of their provincia;
> b) To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in
> those tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely
> within the jurisdiction of their provincia (such edicts being binding upon
> themselves as well as others);
> c) To manage the day-to-day organization and administration
> of their provincia;
> d) To appoint legati (legates) to administer sub-divisions
of
> their province with all of the authority of the governor and to remove the
> same as they see fit;
> e) To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with
administrative
> and other tasks, as the governor shall see fit.
> 2. The titles for provincial governors are as follow:
> a) Those currently serving as consuls or praetors shall go
by
> their normal title;
> b) Consuls serving as governors whose term in office as
> consul has expired, yet who are continuing in their role as governor, as
> well as those who have previously held the position of consul, shall be
> called proconsuls;
> c) Praetors serving as governors whose term in office as
> praetor has expired, yet who are continuing in their role as governor, as
> well as those citizens whom the Senate shall appoint who are not currently
> serving as consul or praetor shall be called propraetors.
Sulla: Sorry I dont want to be difficult I just want to make certain I
understand...Governors are Preator's? The names Governor/Praetor are being
used interchangeable?
> D. Should a magistracy be vacant in mid-term, and less than three
> months remain in the term, the Senate shall appoint a replacement in lieu
of
> holding a special election.
Sulla: and what happens if its longer than 3 months?
> E. The Senate may, by Senatus consultum, enact rules governing its
own
> internal procedures (such Senatus consulta may not be overruled by laws
> passed in the comitia).
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: Proposed New Constitution: 4/6 about Praetors-LICTORS |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:30:59 -0700 |
|
Well we want to be correct dont we? Its our Constitution. Besides I had
more questions that just Lictors.... :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Troy <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Proposed New Constitution: 4/6 about
Praetors-LICTORS
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
>
> This is all very nice but for the sake of arguement what context
> would anyone ever have to worry about how many Lictors they would have
> preceding them anyway?
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
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