Subject:	Membership and Opinions
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:08:55 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Candidate Marcus Papirius Justus;

I cannot speak to your Citizenship except to say that NR does not have a
large administrative staff and at the moment as you may have noticed we
are in the throes of change. However, I would not worry overly as the
people who are dealing with your application are honorable men and women
and will deal with it as soon as possible.

In regard to your opinions they are always welcome on this net, when
they are politely worded and do not try to change a part of Nova Roma
that has been dealt with previously ad nauseum. If you do not know what
areas those might be then to ask is the polite thing to do, rather than
drop bombshells, and watch the fun. We have had some of that since I
have been on this net and it is not much appreciated.

I confess that I have been remiss in my greetings to sevral new
applicants and I again apologize. All who come to NR to share in the
Roman Culture, Roman attributes and submerge themselves in things Roman
be welcome!!.

Whether you are primarily interested in the Religio (backbone of NR),
politics, food and wine, military engineering, children and family, or
any other interests, I invite you to be involved. Read the website, and
take what is said there to heart, that is why it was wriitten. Let your
character be known in terms of the Roman Attributes and be gentle in
your words to the citizens and list. You are welcome here and I am
proud to be able to welcome all of you!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Congratulations Audens!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:16:36 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, M. Mucius Scaevola Magister;

I certainly thank you for your kind words. I hope that I will be able
to reach to some part of the scale of excellence reached by Flavia
Claudia. At least I will try. Thank you for your support.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Devotion vs, Justice
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:54:19 EDT

In a message dated 7/17/99 8:08:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

Salve Audens!


<< The real point is simply this that a duly elected magistrate
(Cinncnnatus) has been removed from his position for no apparent reason.
No charges, no accusations, no proof, and even those who "were on the
other side" are working to have him reinstated wholly or in part.

The reason, to try in his own way to get a job done that the citizens
were increasingly anxious about. I am not a political person, and I do
not have a political background and I do not think like a politician, so
all I can do when I see something like this is to state my feelings:

--If there is a complaint against Cinncinnatus, state the complaint, and
prove it;
--If there is not a complaint, restore him to his rightfully elected
position. >>

Note: This is only my humble, and sometimes insignifigant opinion. If I am
looking at this from the wrong perspective, kindly inform me so. I am still a
fairly new citizen, and may be mistaken in my interpretation of this matter.
I wish to apologize for my ignorance in advance...

I seem to remember the elections being declared null and void by our
appointed Dictator, therefore Cincinnatus is not one of our elected
magistrates, in fact we don't have any elected magistrates. All were
appointed by the Dictator with obvious advice from the people. So if that is
your point my friend, I have to wonder if there is a point at all. Whether
Cincinnatus has done wrong or not, his not being appointed Consul may upset
some, but it is not illegal or unconstitutional. While I agree that a removal
from office should be systematically approached by the comitiae and the
appropriate magistrates, the law has said we have no elected magistrates. The
action the Dictator took by nullifying the elections, made him the only legal
magistrate for the year, until he appointed those that are currently serving
us. If Lucius Equitius is to be banned from citizenship, that should be for
the comitiae to decide; if he is to be banned from the Senate, that should be
for the Senate to decide. I completely agree with you on these points,
neither should fall under the Dictator's authority, and the people should see
to it that they don't. However, asking for someone to be restored to a
position that, according to our current laws, was never truly his is
incorrect. Now should Cincinnatus be able to stand for legal election this
coming year? Yes that should be a choice he has...But I do agree with
Priscilla Vedia, when she asks if our government revolves around Cincinnatus,
and came to the conclusion that it doesn't, and that it is merely the
friendship of certain citizens that are keeping this issue hot. I don't
believe he can legally be "reinstated" as Consul, he would have to be
appointed by the Dictator, or by Senatus Consulta. We would have to prove
that last years elections were constitutionally correct before we could worry
about who is in office right now. So you see it really isn't a matter of
whether or not Cincinnatus' supporters, enemies, you or I, think he should be
Consul, it is a matter of him ever really being Consul...

Valete,
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar

Subject:	Re: Was: Tyr. Still is: Tyr.
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:14:02 EDT

In a message dated 7/18/99 1:01:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< Maybe that is one of the problems.
It is difficult to mix ingredients from two different recipes and get
something palatable.

C. Aelius Ericius
Pontifex >>

I may have been unclear when I referenced the Gods of the North. Allow me to
clarify. ::smile:: I follow the pantheons of both the Celts and the
Norse...an odd combination perhaps, but one that the Norse Gods and Goddesses
in particular made certain I was aware of. LOL

It is my *own* devotion to the Norse Gods that I made reference to in my
original post. Sorry for any confusion that was seen in that.

Priscilla Vedia Serena

Subject:	Re: Mars Pater [was Tyr]
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:20:50 EDT

In a message dated 7/17/99 8:56:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< Lastly and in parting, I would say this, my dear, that those upon whom
you practice sarcasm and bitter wit, you should look to th efuture if
that person is not someone who may be a fellow worker or aid you in some
way.>>

Agreed, which is the primary reason I posted the explanation. It is most
uncommon for me to vent anger in such a way, and as I stated, my *limit* had
been reached. As I also stated, such sarcasm was not an appropriate choice
and I have apologized for it.

<<The wit and sarcasm are transitory, but the effects last a lifetime.>>

Of this I am all too well aware. Likewise, the wounding words and needlessly
snide comments take their toll on a person. I strive to remind myself that I
should remain above such things myself, and am confident of my ability to
distance my emotions before posting in the future. A perfect situation? No,
but one I believe has merit and may actually work. ::smile::

< >>

Not at all. Your point is well taken, and although I feel my silence has
been difficult till now, I also believe that had I chosen a more appropriate
(less emotional) moment to respond, my dignitas may not have suffered as it
did earlier. My *point* is one I stand by, but my method of delivery
suffered from the sarcasm. Like all of life's lessons, this too has been
beneficial and will provide growth.

Priscilla Vedia Serena

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 05:45:07 -0500 (CDT)

My sympathies for you and your family Sulla and I hope your
mother gets better soon.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Age Issue- possible solution
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 05:53:00 -0500 (CDT)

Why not allow 18 yr olds to be the pater/materfamilia but only
be able to accept members actually related until age 21(?) such as a
spouse or sibling? It seems to me like a reasonable compromise to help
guarantee a certain level of commitment and /or stability ( isn't this
the issue really?).

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:55:35 -0400 (EDT)

Sulla;

You may be sure there is a place in my pryers for your dear mother and
the hope that she will recover fully. I know how difficult this can be
as I have diabetes myself, and must ever be on my guard about a variety
of excesses.

Please give her my best regards and bid her to know that friends are
watchng and praying..

Most Sincerely;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Religio stuff and Sodalis stuff
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:10:49 -0500

Salvete,

I use the subject line above to allow those who have no interest in
anything save the political to delete and move on. I unsubbed from
this list over this nonsense and have resubbed to digest. My job in
NR is to offer sacrifice and prayers to Iuno and the record the
history of the Roman children. Fortunately as neither subject is
broached on the main list very often, I am not worried about
missing anything. While I am not as educated as most on this list,
I can take pride in all the information I have accumulated both on
Iuno and children. A couple of people have told me that I am on
my way to becoming an expert in the field of ancient Roman
children. Hopefully Nova Roma would be able to notice and have
pride that they sparked such an interest in one of their members
(even if she DID turn out to be an over emotional boob). After all
the results are positive, as the awards page of the Sodalis Pro
Infantia proves.

I will begin tonight working extensively on both Temple pages (there
is not only the Temple of Iuno, but also a basic, standard Temple
not dedicated to any god in particular, but for ALL the gods, as
some have not had online Temples erected in their honor. I will
also be working on the award winning Sodalis Pro Infantia. I have
pages and pages of information I need to find a place for and
hopefully I will. The address of the Sodalis Pro Infantia will also be
changing. The old address may still work, but I am not sure. I will
post the new address when all the pages have been added or
changed or updated. I may also be redoing the webpage attached
to the two Temples, something separate from the template design
currently on the page.

I also pride myself on refraining from posting to this forum the
personal event that happened to our beloved Lapis! I did however
forget to add his grandpaterfamilia to the email list of those we
opted to share the information with. I cannot find the address, so if
Palliadus would be so kind as to email or ICQ me, I will share this
news with him.

Along those lines, I would like to offer honorary membership in the
Sodalis Pro Infantia to any person in Nova Roma who has a child of
the appropriate age (age 0 - 13 years). The subject of the children
of ancient Rome was, frankly, neglected before the Sodalis Pro
Infantia and I would like to think that the parents of young children
within Nova Roma would want to contribute to this long neglected
subject. I cannot possibly be the only parent within Nova Roma
who is proud of their child/ren. The Sodalis Pro Infantia is a
wonderful resource for Roman Parents to gather information which
may help them to raise their children. We are certainly working to
make it so anyway.

I am now off to work ....

Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina
Founder of the Sodalis Pro Infantia
Iunonis Templique Sacerdote

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	AC1917@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:24:56 EDT

The Gods bless and protect you and your family, Sulla.

Camillus Severus Antoninus

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	"Gary E. McGrath" Garymac@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:14:35 -0400

Sulla,
May the Gods be with you and yours during this difficult time.
My prayers are with you and yours.

M. Arrius Julianus

Subject:	to the Capitoline Triad
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:48:21 -0700

Salvete, omnes. I offer this as prayers to the Capitoline Triad and all our Gods for the
favorable attentions and aid to us and our families in our own lives and and for their
favorable attentions and aid to us and our family as Nova Roma.
Ita est.
C. Aelius Ericius.


* * *

IOVE

Iove, the Greatest and Best of the Gods,
Far-seeing ruler who brings all things to fulfillment
And holds wise discourse with Themis, who sits nearby leaning toward him.
Be gracious, far-seeing one, son of Saturnus, noblest and greatest!


You were.
You are.
You will always be.

supremely sacred Iove,
we dedicate this rite to you.

Under the oak of Dodona
your prophet priests
with unwashed feet
crouch on the ground

listening to your voice speaking softly i rustling leaves and cooing doves.

You simply wish
and things come true.

You are thunder.
You are bright day,
rain, wind and dew.

Mother Earth,
her towering mountains,
the roaring sea,
you are father of us all.

You are law,
civil rights,
privacy and property.

You are landmarks
and boundaries.
Protect sweet mariage.

Show mercy to the unfaithful.
Punish perjury.
Judge the dead.

Show mercy to conscience
stricken outcasts.
Civilize us.

Grace us with love,
power, wisdom, peace,
health and wealth.



IUNO

Golden-Throned Iuno I sing, daughter of Gaia,
Queen of immortals, surpassing all others in beauty,
Sister and wive of loud-thundering Iove, Glorius goddess
Whom all the blessed Gods sheltered by lofty Olympus
Reverence and equally honor with Iove whose delight is in thunder.




Royal Iuno,
Majestic queen,
we honor you.

Virgin, mother, crone,
shield sweet marriage,
console the divorced,

ease the pangs of birth,
protect our children.

Enthroned in the blue
heart of the sky
watch over us.

Mother of rain,
the peacock
and the cuckoo,

you guide the universe
from blasting winds
and swelling seas
to rolling rivers.

You give us
ox and yoke,
gentle cows
with luminous eyes,

and plump ears of corn
golden in green fields.
We celebrate your festival
of flowers in spring.

Hear us, blessed Goddess,
beloved of Iove,
Goddess of the moon and stars,
shine joy and peace upon us.



MINERVA

I sing of Minerva, the city's protectress,
Awesome, and jointly with Mars attendent on matters of warfare---
The plunder of cities, the loud battle shout, and the fighting---
Who keeps safe from all harm the host gooing forth and returning from combat.
Hail, Goddess, and grant to us happiness and good fortune!




Fully armored you leap
from the womb
in the head of Iove.

He trusts you
with the aegis
of omnipotence.

Illustrious warrior,
principle of wisdom,
we honor you.

Teach us diplomacy
and strategy.
Give us foresight.

You invent the plow.
You give practiced hands
to build strong ships

You teach us
to spin and weave,
make shoes, work gold.

You invent the flute
and inspire its music.

You love mountains,
the brilliant peaks
and shady groves.

In the gloom you walk,
fierce gray eyes
piercing the dark.

You are the owl,
the rooster, the snake
and the spider.

Mistress of every art,
master of war,
inspired prophetess,

Minerva the grinder,
dance the war dance,
shake your spear,

rage aganist injustice.
Inspire us with the prowes
of righteous fury.

Give us your mirror,
ballance and sword
so we can slay the Gorgon.

You who trampled down
the flaming Titans,
purge the evil threatening us.

We pray day and night:
let your beauty
and omniscience shine.

You give bunches of figs
and the glittering
dew that nourishes fields and meadowns.

you taught us
to tame and bridle
wild horses.

You gave the world
your olive trees
and the golden words
that Homer gilt with.

Give us peace and health,
wisdom, happiness and wealth,
ever present, be our guide.

Grant us strength and wit,
teach us the craft
of giving the dying life.


* * *


[The first selection for each of teh Triad is adapted and Romanized from_The Homeric
Hymns_a verse translation_ by Thelma Sargent (Norton press/1975)
The second selection for each Deity is from _The Hymns of Orpheus_mutations_ by R.C.Hogart
(Phanes Press, Grand Rapids, Mich. 1993) I revere and honor the works of these three poets
and urge you to buy copies of their work.]

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:12:03 -0700

Shalom Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Comespiritu,

May the G-d of your fathers and mothers bless and keep thee and thine, may
he lend aid in this time of need.

I shall lift a horn in Symbel to Eir Odinnsdotter of the North to send
comfort and healing.

I shall lift voice in verse to Apollo Medicus as well.

In Amicus et Fidelis - Venator

Subject:	Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:22:26 -0400 (EDT)

--- w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a> wrote:
> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:17:38 -0700
> From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
> Organization: Acta Sanctorum Corpus Ordo Vox Hermeius et Templum
> To: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
> Subject: Re: GRRRR

> > > > LOL My apologies to you. He doesn't mind,
> > > So you believe
> > I'm very close to Apollo, and He knows that I mean it affectionately.
> > I leave it up to HIM to tell me, not you.

> again so you believe , You are the one who has madeup gods in her mind
> I Have voted no , when and if you wish to be real let me know.



Salvete all,

I would like to know if it is standard procedure when one applies for the
priesthood to have her and her religious beliefs insulted by her fellow members
who are supposed to be voting for her application.

I would also like to know what Nova Roma usually does in situations like these.

Between the rudeness and arrogance of being told that my gods and my beliefs
are "in my head," and being voted against because my beliefs are not the same
as this--person's--I would demand an apology for his rude behavior and ask at
the very least that his attitude be taken in consideration for my vote.


I am adopted by Athene and the Morrigan. I will not stand for such treatment
by one towards me, my gods, and my beliefs.

To say that I am pissed would be putting it rather mildly.


Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.


Valete et khairete,

-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia




===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar/Andreia *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:22:23 EDT

Salve Andrea Gladia,

This individual's remarks about your gods certainly violate decorum if
not law. However, I wouldn't pay him too much attention. He is one of the
Dictator's new appointees, and his appointment to a priesthood was, mea
sententia, a mistake. Perhaps Germanicus can respond about him. Is
there/should there be a probationary period for new priests?

My own advice would be to consider his comments to be the
cyber-equivalent of the tittering of a small, witless bird, and attribute
about the same amount of importance to them.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> wrote:
>From: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
>
>--- w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a> wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:17:38 -0700
>> From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
>> Organization: Acta Sanctorum Corpus Ordo Vox Hermeius et Templum
>> To: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
>> Subject: Re: GRRRR
>
>> > > > LOL My apologies to you. He doesn't mind,
>> > > So you believe
>> > I'm very close to Apollo, and He knows that I mean it affectionately.
>> > I leave it up to HIM to tell me, not you.
>
>> again so you believe , You are the one who has madeup gods in her mind
>> I Have voted no , when and if you wish to be real let me know.
>
>
>
>Salvete all,
>
>I would like to know if it is standard procedure when one applies for the
>priesthood to have her and her religious beliefs insulted by her fellow
>members
>who are supposed to be voting for her application.
>
>I would also like to know what Nova Roma usually does in situations like
>these.
>
>Between the rudeness and arrogance of being told that my gods and my beliefs
>are "in my head," and being voted against because my beliefs are not the same
>as this--person's--I would demand an apology for his rude behavior and ask at
>the very least that his attitude be taken in consideration for my vote.
>
>
>I am adopted by Athene and the Morrigan. I will not stand for such treatment
>by one towards me, my gods, and my beliefs.
>
>To say that I am pissed would be putting it rather mildly.
>
>
>Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.
>
>
>Valete et khairete,
>
>-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia


purgamentum init, exit purgamentum.

(Garbage in, garbage out.)

Subject:	Re: Tyr
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:22:28 EDT

Salve Priscilla Vedia,

With regard to the enduring nature of the effects of sarcasm and hard
words, let me say that I liked you from the moment that you "set foot"
here, and that feeling is not changed by your angry responses to mine or
others' criticisms of Germanicus' activities. Indeed, I might like you
less if you didn't rise to your husband's defense. He is a lucky man to
have you at his side.

As to whether the nation revolves around the issue of the treatment of
Cincinnatus, I must say that in no small way, it does. It is not a matter
of this one person, but of whether we are going to "play by the rules"
here. If people can be disenfranchised and their elective offices and
responsibilities stripped from them for reasons of personal rancor, then
we can't honestly pretend to be recreating the virtues of the Roman
Republic here, can we?

Germanicus has done many things recently that may put the Republic back
on course. If so, then some of the credit belongs to Cincinnatus, since
it was Cincinnatus' dogged insistence on getting these things
straightened out that led to Germanicus' appointment to the task of
straightening them out!

As to the fatuous arguments that others have raised, such as that
Cincinnatus' election to the Curule chair was illegal and therefore he
didn't hold the office of Consul -- that's as phoney as can be. If
Cincinnatus was not a Consul then his partner also was not a Consul, and
so the Senate convocation that appointed Germanicus (which as it stands
is of questionable legality anyway) was then clearly not legal, so then
Germanicus is not legally Dictator..... It goes on ad absurdum! Do we
want this sort of quibbling to go on?

The best thing at this point would be to start anew under the reforms
that Germanicus has made, to try to mend relations between all involved,
and to unite again. But to do that without correcting the wrong done to
Cincinnatus, who was seeking to have these very reforms made, is not
possible, at least from my own point of view.

I can forgive Germanicus for his hostility toward Cincinnatus, just as I
forgive you for your hostility expressed toward me. But you have not
harmed me nor taken anything from me. Germanicus has harmed Cincinnatus
and taken away his legitimate offices and his good name. That has
diminished not only Cincinnatus but also Germanicus, and I would like to
see it put right, for both their sakes and for the good of the Republic.

And I truly hope that I am not moved to address this particular issue
again. I don't like having to say these things.

Vale,

Lucius Sergius Australicus

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------; wrote (--------g other things):
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 7/17/99 12:37:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
><--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:
>
><< As long as Cincinnatus is not fully restored, none of these new steps and
> reforms means anything, and Nova Roma is nothing but a private farce
> masquarading as a lawful micronation. >>
>
>I was unaware that this entire nation revolved around this issue.
>
>Heavens, imagine my relief now that I can ignore the amount of
>accomplishments seen in the recent weeks.....work that a large number of
>individuals had been unable to manage in many months.....
>
>I can happily sit back and realize that the entire premise of this nation is
>"Cinncinatus".
>
>Oh wait..I forgot....that is your fantasy, not mine.
>
>Priscilla Vedia Serena


aut amat aut odit mulier: nihil est tertium.
Publilius Syrus

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:56:58 -0700

Well wait Sergius, we only have one e-mail to judge by. Why dont we ask the
rest of the Pontiffs what they think in this matter. First off, I do think
its bad taste to post private messages in a public forum, but that is just
me. I know that there have been times. But to do it maliciously to cause
harm to an appointed Pontiff I think is purely bad taste. I dont think
Germanicus or Cassius would have appointed Marcus Cornelius Felix if they
felt he was not qualifed. So why dont we ask the rest of the Pontiffs?
Cassius? Palladius? Ericius? any comments?

L. Cornelius Sulla
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
Praetor Urbanus et Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Cc: <a href="mailto:religio@--------" >religio@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Salve Andrea Gladia,
>
> This individual's remarks about your gods certainly violate decorum if
> not law. However, I wouldn't pay him too much attention. He is one of the
> Dictator's new appointees, and his appointment to a priesthood was, mea
> sententia, a mistake. Perhaps Germanicus can respond about him. Is
> there/should there be a probationary period for new priests?
>
> My own advice would be to consider his comments to be the
> cyber-equivalent of the tittering of a small, witless bird, and attribute
> about the same amount of importance to them.
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> wrote:
> >From: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
> >
> >--- w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a> wrote:
> >> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:17:38 -0700
> >> From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
> >> Organization: Acta Sanctorum Corpus Ordo Vox Hermeius et Templum
> >> To: K--------e Ariadne <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a>
> >> Subject: Re: GRRRR
> >
> >> > > > LOL My apologies to you. He doesn't mind,
> >> > > So you believe
> >> > I'm very close to Apollo, and He knows that I mean it affectionately.
> >> > I leave it up to HIM to tell me, not you.
> >
> >> again so you believe , You are the one who has madeup gods in her mind
> >> I Have voted no , when and if you wish to be real let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> >Salvete all,
> >
> >I would like to know if it is standard procedure when one applies for the
> >priesthood to have her and her religious beliefs insulted by her fellow
> >members
> >who are supposed to be voting for her application.
> >
> >I would also like to know what Nova Roma usually does in situations like
> >these.
> >
> >Between the rudeness and arrogance of being told that my gods and my
beliefs
> >are "in my head," and being voted against because my beliefs are not the
same
> >as this--person's--I would demand an apology for his rude behavior and
ask at
> >the very least that his attitude be taken in consideration for my vote.
> >
> >
> >I am adopted by Athene and the Morrigan. I will not stand for such
treatment
> >by one towards me, my gods, and my beliefs.
> >
> >To say that I am pissed would be putting it rather mildly.
> >
> >
> >Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.
> >
> >
> >Valete et khairete,
> >
> >-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
>
>
> purgamentum init, exit purgamentum.
>
> (Garbage in, garbage out.)
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Pontiff Felix
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:16:35 -0400 (EDT)

Hmmmmmm! That sure doesn't sound like the guy with whom I have recently
reached an agreement. I would support Sulla's suggestion even though
this is a religous matter, and I am not of the faithful. In addition I
would like to see the complete letter of application and the complete
letter of response. I believe also, and I do not know to what extent
this affects the situation if at all, that Pontiff Felix is dyslexic and
that may have a bearing on what was percieved to have been said. I know
that I had difficulty in reading a message that he sent me, before he
used a special technology to clear it up..

At this point I must admit that I do not know either principle well, but
it is my opinion that the applicant is a bright and eager young person,
anxious to please and to involve herself in the Roman Religio. It is my
belief that the Pontiff Felix is an experienced and learned professor of
Ancient Religions. I think with the above kept in mind and to the fore,
that we may yet slavage the feelings of a new NR member and a newly
appointed Pontiff without causing a further emnity between them. I say,
Hear Sulla. and support his suggestion.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:24:11 -0400

-----Original Message-----
From: RCW <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Well wait Sergius, we only have one e-mail to judge by. Why dont we ask
the
>rest of the Pontiffs what they think in this matter. First off, I do think
>its bad taste to post private messages in a public forum, but that is just
>me. I know that there have been times. But to do it maliciously to cause
>harm to an appointed Pontiff I think is purely bad taste.

If he is harmed, it will be by his own words, which were written in
the course of his duties as Pontifex. I see no malice behind Kyrinia's
wish to have the new Pontifex's stance examined and clarified. Or
are Cornelius Felix's official judgements to be considered a private matter?


Rusticus

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:31:22 -0700

On the contrary, I believe it is priviliged just as a communication from the
Seante to an individual regarding a matter of the Senate, would be
confidential. Rusticus.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus et Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: Na-------- Hicks &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------r> To: Nova Roma mailing-list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


&g--------rom: "Na-------- Hicks" &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------fon--------r> >
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RCW <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 7:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR
>
>
> >From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >Well wait Sergius, we only have one e-mail to judge by. Why dont we ask
> the
> >rest of the Pontiffs what they think in this matter. First off, I do
think
> >its bad taste to post private messages in a public forum, but that is
just
> >me. I know that there have been times. But to do it maliciously to
cause
> >harm to an appointed Pontiff I think is purely bad taste.
>
> If he is harmed, it will be by his own words, which were written in
> the course of his duties as Pontifex. I see no malice behind Kyrinia's
> wish to have the new Pontifex's stance examined and clarified. Or
> are Cornelius Felix's official judgements to be considered a private
matter?
>
>
> Rusticus
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: your connection to like-minds and kindred spirits.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:59:51 EDT

In a message dated 7/18/99 5:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:

<<
Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.
>>

Salvete,

I'm writing to Kyrene personally, in the hopes that this situation can be
sorted out. I've followed this thing "offline" somewhat, and believe that it
amounts to two people clashing over very different views.

I DO understand that the message cut and pasted to the list is the very tail
end of a rather thorough correspondence, and what has shown up here are the
parting comments of one individual to another - rather than an initial
contact from a Pontifex to an Applicant for priesthood.

Hopefully this won't be drawn into yet another huge list argument in the
meantime. Gods I'm tired of 'em! :P

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:07:21 -0700

Thank you Cassius for handling this. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 7/18/99 5:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:
>
> <<
> Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.
> >>
>
> Salvete,
>
> I'm writing to Kyrene personally, in the hopes that this situation can be
> sorted out. I've followed this thing "offline" somewhat, and believe that
it
> amounts to two people clashing over very different views.
>
> I DO understand that the message cut and pasted to the list is the very
tail
> end of a rather thorough correspondence, and what has shown up here are
the
> parting comments of one individual to another - rather than an initial
> contact from a Pontifex to an Applicant for priesthood.
>
> Hopefully this won't be drawn into yet another huge list argument in the
> meantime. Gods I'm tired of 'em! :P
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Check out homepage for details.
>
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>

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:08:29 EDT

In a message dated 7/18/1999 7:01:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:

<< Gods I'm tired of 'em! :P >>
Salve
Aren't we all. I'm sure you can solve this minor disagreement, Marcus
Cassius.
Vale
Q. Fabius

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:32:21 EDT

I'll say no more about it here.

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 7/18/99 5:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:
>
><<
> Fellow members and peers, I await your advice.
> >>
>
>Salvete,
>
>I'm writing to Kyrene personally, in the hopes that this situation can be
>sorted out. I've followed this thing "offline" somewhat, and believe that it
>amounts to two people clashing over very different views.
>
>I DO understand that the message cut and pasted to the list is the very tail
>end of a rather thorough correspondence, and what has shown up here are the
>parting comments of one individual to another - rather than an initial
>contact from a Pontifex to an Applicant for priesthood.
>
>Hopefully this won't be drawn into yet another huge list argument in the
>meantime. Gods I'm tired of 'em! :P
>
>Vale,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>Pontifex Maximus


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:32:18 EDT

Salve Lucius Cornelius,

You make a good point regarding the role of the other Pontiffs, but then
I wonder if this individual was ever voted on by the Pontifical College.
Wasn't he simply appointed by the Dictator? If so, then should it not be
his responsibility to look into his appointee's conduct? These days, who
knows?

As to Andrea Gladia reposting a private email message, it's true that
that is generally considered to be in poor taste. But then the message
she received appears to have been uncalled for and in poor taste also,
and I can certainly empathize with her. I have received nasty little
private messages from people here, also. For my part, I'm practicing
ignoring them.

Vale, and my best wishes for your mother's health,

L. Sergius Aust.


>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Well wait Sergius, we only have one e-mail to judge by. Why dont we ask the
>rest of the Pontiffs what they think in this matter. First off, I do think
>its bad taste to post private messages in a public forum, but that is just
>me. I know that there have been times. But to do it maliciously to cause
>harm to an appointed Pontiff I think is purely bad taste. I dont think
>Germanicus or Cassius would have appointed Marcus Cornelius Felix if they
>felt he was not qualifed. So why dont we ask the rest of the Pontiffs?
>Cassius? Palladius? Ericius? any comments?
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
>Praetor Urbanus et Senator

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"Nathan Hicks" moman@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:48:06 -0400

-----Original Message-----
From: RCW <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>On the contrary, I believe it is priviliged just as a communication from
the
>Seante to an individual regarding a matter of the Senate, would be
>confidential. Rusticus.


I've neither seen nor heard that one, Sulla... If a Pontifex
shares his reasons with an applicant--an action which is
not required of him as part of his duties--then he has given
an public statement concerning his judgement. In other
words, he has voluntarily broken the confidentiality of
his decision, the details of which may then transmitted
to the public.


Rusticus

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:59:43 -0700

As I understand it Germancius sought out Cassius's advice, regarding his
appointment. Thank you for your note about my mother. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Salve Lucius Cornelius,
>
> You make a good point regarding the role of the other Pontiffs, but then
> I wonder if this individual was ever voted on by the Pontifical College.
> Wasn't he simply appointed by the Dictator? If so, then should it not be
> his responsibility to look into his appointee's conduct? These days, who
> knows?
>
> As to Andrea Gladia reposting a private email message, it's true that
> that is generally considered to be in poor taste. But then the message
> she received appears to have been uncalled for and in poor taste also,
> and I can certainly empathize with her. I have received nasty little
> private messages from people here, also. For my part, I'm practicing
> ignoring them.
>
> Vale, and my best wishes for your mother's health,
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
>
> >From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >Well wait Sergius, we only have one e-mail to judge by. Why dont we ask
the
> >rest of the Pontiffs what they think in this matter. First off, I do
think
> >its bad taste to post private messages in a public forum, but that is
just
> >me. I know that there have been times. But to do it maliciously to
cause
> >harm to an appointed Pontiff I think is purely bad taste. I dont think
> >Germanicus or Cassius would have appointed Marcus Cornelius Felix if they
> >felt he was not qualifed. So why dont we ask the rest of the Pontiffs?
> >Cassius? Palladius? Ericius? any comments?
> >
> >L. Cornelius Sulla
> >Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
> >Praetor Urbanus et Senator
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Campaign 2000 is here!
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> Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: Privledged Communication [was: GRRRR]
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:01:47 -0700

Salvete.

RCW wrote:

> On the contrary, I believe it is priviliged just as a communication from the
> Seante to an individual regarding a matter of the Senate, would be
> confidential. Rusticus.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Praetor Urbanus et Senator

I'm taking advantage of this to bring up another point. It might be said to be off topic
for Nova Roma, but I do not think so. It is a matter of etiquette in regards to private
correspondence and the internet.

Private correspondence is not to be made public without the prior approval of both parties
involved.

That is to say that not only may I not spread around the letters Augustus sends to me, I
can not make public my letters to Augustus without his permission.

[Note: the Augustus cited is a fictitious character. Augustus has not been harmed by my
using him in this example.]

Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius.

Subject:	Re: Prayers
From:	"ROBERT WILLIAMSON" robert@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:03:15 -0400

Salve Sulla: There is today in our daily prayers the asking for blessings
for you mother and all of your family at this difficult time. We wish her
and your family well. --Appius Marcellus Cato
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 2:59 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Prayers


>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Omnes...
>
>I just recived notification from my sister that mother has just been
>admitted to the Hospital in the Intensive Care unit beucase of
>complications from Diabetes......Please pray for my mother's health..I
>am going to Riverside on Monday to be with my grandmother and to see if
>they will let visitors into her Hospital Room.
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Praetor Urbanus et Senator
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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><a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/mothernature1" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/mothernature1</a> ">Click Here</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:08:26 EDT

In a message dated 7/18/99 10:59:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< As I understand it Germancius sought out Cassius's advice, regarding his
appointment.>>

Just a side note.....Germanicus has been down with the flu for several days,
so please be patient if you are expecting any replies on this. He is aware
of the situation, but he is also not quite up to being online.

<<Thank you for your note about my mother. :)>>

I have been remiss not to extend my condolences and prayers to you Sulla.
Both my husband and I will keep your mother, yourself, and your family in our
thoughts.

Priscilla Vedia Serena

Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:11:19 -0700

I disagree...if it was sent to an individual, then it isnt public....or else
it would have gone to the list? would it not? OR at least the Religio list?

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Na-------- Hicks &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------r> To: Nova Roma mailing-list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR


&g--------rom: "Na-------- Hicks" &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=029233014237078135050082190036" &g--------man@--------&l--------&g--------fon--------r> >
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RCW <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fwd: Re: GRRRR
>
>
> >From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >On the contrary, I believe it is priviliged just as a communication from
> the
> >Seante to an individual regarding a matter of the Senate, would be
> >confidential. Rusticus.
>
>
> I've neither seen nor heard that one, Sulla... If a Pontifex
> shares his reasons with an applicant--an action which is
> not required of him as part of his duties--then he has given
> an public statement concerning his judgement. In other
> words, he has voluntarily broken the confidentiality of
> his decision, the details of which may then transmitted
> to the public.
>
>
> Rusticus
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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Subject:	office of the holy toad
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:36:04 -0700

Salve

in part of My post to the Collegium
M.Cornelius Felix Pontiff sends greeting to all here.
as i posted the letters from to me and her(the Candidate)
to the Pontiffix List I will not do so here,
in them she shows No Auctoritas,Dignitas,any Gravitas about what
we are talking about,no Pietas,.
She has called Apollo " 'Pollo-poof' "in them.
she has said I can not be a worshiper on Apollo if I do not
know her!..
NOTE that i have have many emails with her before ,
her OFFhand way of talking about the Gods shows No Gravitas
I asked then told her not to call Apollo "pollo-poof"
for the GODS Honor I asked this.
I am not mad at her, but she is very VERY immature I am not the only
person who can see this.
I will not post all the email here .
But she talked about " gods that are only hers" IE she made them up.
THINK about it.
Vale

Subject:	Tyr Again
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:38:49 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete, omnes.

I note with consider-------- irony the recent posts from <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------;.

Priscilla "has seen her beloved husband sweat, struggle and strive."

Oh, yes. The great men toil and sweat on behalf of the unwashed masses!
They make the trains run on time! They put everyone to work! They increase
production through their glorious Five Year Plans! They rescue the State
from subversives! So, look the other way, when people disappear, as they
did in Argentina. Look the other way, when ethnic Japanese are "relocated",
as they were in America. Look the other way, when tanks roll over a few
troublesome students, as they did in China. And by all means, look the
other way, when a citizen is expelled from Nova Roma.

Priscilla said, "I was unaware that this entire nation revolved around this
issue. I can happily sit back and realize that the entire premise of this
nation is Cinncinatus".

Indeed, she is entirely unaware. Indeed, she fundamentally misunderstands
the meaning of the ordeal of the 20th century. So let me give you this
perspective, written by a German more than half a century ago. It has been
30 years since I heard the quote, but the gist of it is this:

"First they came for the communists, and as I was not a communist, I did not
object. Then they came for the trade-unionists, and as I was not a
trade-unionist, I did not object. Then they came for the Jews, and as I was
not a Jew, I did not object. Then they came for me, and there was no one
left to object."

Yes, Quirites, "realize that the entire premise of this nation is
Cinncinatus", as Priscilla has said. Realize that the true measure of the
character of this nation -- and any nation -- is in its treatment of a
single individual. For when the State elevates itself above the individual
-- any individual -- that is Totalitarianism.

So Quirites, if you will not support the cause of Cincinnatus out of
enlightenment and a sense of justice, do so out of self-preservation.

Priscilla says, "If he [Germanicus] were truly the petty tyrant some here
would have you believe, would he not 'silence' the very voices that decry him?"

This is indeed a specious argument, for by her logic, the dictatorship in
Burma should have silenced Aung San Suu Kyi long ago, and the Soviet Union
should have silenced Andrei Sakharov. In fact, these examples point up the
weakness of totalitarian regimes. They breed in darkness, and they fear the
light of Truth.

Finally, Priscilla smirks, "Oh my dear Gangalius..the Gods and Goddesses of
the North have much more to do with this then [sic] you could possibly imagine."

Well, I can imagine quite a lot, and so I say, let's find out, shall we? My
right hand is doing much better today, thank you. It turns out that my left
hand suffered more in yesterday's incident, and I take this as a sign that I
should now offer my left hand to the wolf. So, again I invoke the justice
of the Germanic gods, and again I cast the Rune of Tyr. I will give up my
position as Vebsitarius Maximus if Cincinnatus will be fully restored to his
citizenship and his offices.

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------;: oh, Justice indeed! Let us h--------some!

For it remains my opinion that Cincinnatus must be fully restored!

Valete,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius

Subject:	Re: office of the holy toad
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:38:51 -0700

Very Interesting. Hopefully this will go away.
Well, today is a day of ill omen. [shrug]

Gratias tibi, Felix.

Bene vale.
Ericius

william wheeler wrote:

> From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
>
> Salve
>
> in part of My post to the Collegium
> M.Cornelius Felix Pontiff sends greeting to all here.
> as i posted the letters from to me and her(the Candidate)
> to the Pontiffix List I will not do so here,
> in them she shows No Auctoritas,Dignitas,any Gravitas about what
> we are talking about,no Pietas,.
> She has called Apollo " 'Pollo-poof' "in them.
> she has said I can not be a worshiper on Apollo if I do not
> know her!..
> NOTE that i have have many emails with her before ,
> her OFFhand way of talking about the Gods shows No Gravitas
> I asked then told her not to call Apollo "pollo-poof"
> for the GODS Honor I asked this.
> I am not mad at her, but she is very VERY immature I am not the only
> person who can see this.
> I will not post all the email here .
> But she talked about " gods that are only hers" IE she made them up.
> THINK about it.
> Vale
>
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Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: GRRRR
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:40:49 EDT

Salvete,

I'll post on this again, since issues regarding the Pontificial College are
brought up here...

In a message dated 7/18/99 10:34:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:

> You make a good point regarding the role of the other Pontiffs, but then
I wonder if this individual was ever voted on by the Pontifical College.
Wasn't he simply appointed by the Dictator? If so, then should it not be
his responsibility to look into his appointee's conduct? These days, who
knows?

Marcus Cornelius Felix was "officially" appointed by the Dictator, but on my
recommendation. He happens to be exceptionally knowledgable about the Religio
Romana and I've been in close contact with him for some time now.

As far as conduct, there are several factors involved in the correspondence
that was posted. All that I know at this point is that Felix and Kyrene have
VERY different personal views on deity and religion, and their correspondence
reflected this in every way possible. What started out as official ended up
personal.

> As to Andrea Gladia reposting a private email message, it's true that
that is generally considered to be in poor taste. But then the message
she received appears to have been uncalled for and in poor taste also,
and I can certainly empathize with her. I have received nasty little
private messages from people here, also. For my part, I'm practicing
ignoring them.

I've asked Kyrene to forward ALL the correspondence from this situation...
and hopefully this will turn out to be a minor issue as far as the list is
concerned.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus