| Subject: |
Pepper |
| From: |
Marius Fimbria legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:34:15 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete omnes...
It is with great heaviness of heart and tears streaming that I must
announce the death last Wednesday of my combat poodle Pepper at the age
of 15. He died peacefully while being petted, and was in no pain; he
is survived by Rudi, my greyhound, age 11 and a half.
I wish to thank (again) all of you who have offered prayers on his
behalf to whatever concept of Deity is most meaningful to you. The
private support I have already received from many of my Nova Roman
friends has been invaluable. Any suggestions for acts of memorial will
be gladly welcomed.
I do apologize to everyone for not yet having made any statement in my
new capacity as curator sermonem (List moderator), but...I'm sure my
fellow-Citizens can understand why I've been kinda wanting to crawl
under a rock and stay there for a while, and it is taking more than the
usual amount of Roman Discipline to avoid succumbing to that particular
urge.
Yours under the Eagles,
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |\=/|
mka Märia Villarroel ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> >[SPQR]< `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
Roman Historical Re-Creationist ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
and Citizen of Nova Roma | | / )\ \| /
'The best place to bury a dog _|_| / _/_| /`(
is in the heart of his master.' /./..=' /./..'
|
| Subject: |
Re: Pepper |
| From: |
JusticeCMO@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:43:45 EDT |
|
In a message dated 8/4/99 1:34:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> write--------r>
<< It is with great heaviness of heart and tears streaming that I must
announce the death last Wednesday of my combat poodle Pepper at the age
of 15. >>
I am so sorry to hear of your loss. :( I have endured such devastation as
well and I know how rough it is to get through. Both you and Pepper will be
in my thoughts and prayers.......
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
Re: Pepper |
| From: |
Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 04:44:08 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> wrote:
> Salvete omnes...
Salve!
> It is with great heaviness of heart and tears streaming that I must
> announce the death last Wednesday of my combat poodle Pepper at the age
> of 15. He died peacefully while being petted, and was in no pain; he
> is survived by Rudi, my greyhound, age 11 and a half.
:( I'm so sorry.... Best of wishes to you and for Pepper, wherever he may be
now....
> I do apologize to everyone for not yet having made any statement in my
> new capacity as curator sermonem (List moderator), but...I'm sure my
> fellow-Citizens can understand why I've been kinda wanting to crawl
> under a rock and stay there for a while, and it is taking more than the
> usual amount of Roman Discipline to avoid succumbing to that particular
> urge.
Hon, right now, that's rather understandable. I lost my cat too years ago, and
she was like an older sister to me--my parents got her before I was born. I
know what it's like....
Hang in there... we'll be here when you're ready to post. :)
Vale et khaire,
Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://messenger.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Notification of Action |
| From: |
Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 04:46:31 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> wrote:
> Salve,
Salve,
> Oh wait... that's not what a power-hungry tyrant is supposed to say, is it?
> Oh well...
That's ok, Germanicus... we love you anyway. ;)
Vale et khaire,
Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at <a href="http://messenger.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://messenger.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Vesta |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:01:13 GMT |
|
Salvete Omnes
One of the participants in the Goddess 2000 Project, Nancy Bennett, is
putting together a book of invocations and poetry devoted to various
goddesses as part of the project. I've submitted to her one I use for my
personal devotions to Vesta after she invited me to, so I am hoping it will
be published. If anyone else is interested in it, her email is
<a href="/--------/novaroma?--------ectID=014056234185056134050218055036129208" >bennett@--------</a>
Valete
Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: Parting Address |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:53:54 GMT |
|
Salve Germanicus
I just wished to thank you for all your hard work as dictator.
Vale
Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Re: Proper name of the SCU |
| From: |
RexMarcius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:31:34 EDT |
|
Salvete omnes!
I am not sure if this scholarly dispute is already resolved, but I have found
a reference to a German dissertation dealing exclusively with that topic:
Ungern-Sternberg, Untersuchungen zum spätrepublikanischen Notstandsrecht.
Senatus consultum ultimum und hostis-Erklärung (München 1970) (Inquiries into
the the emergency law of the late Republic. SCU and "Hostis"-declaration.
(Munich 1970). If you are still interested, I could take a detour to the
Munich university library on my next trip there ( I can not promise a certain
date for that though)
You should also check out Livy 3.4.9., it is the only reference I know to the
"de re publica defendenda" I can find (apart from the ones in Mommsen and
Durant).
I myself believe the Romans of the late Republic referred to the SCU mainly
as the Senate decree directed to the Consuls, "ne quid res publica detrimenti
caperet" (see Sallust: de coniuratione Catilinae" .29). Cicero himself used
that term in his speeches against Catilina I.2.4 ("Decrevit quondam senatus,
uti L. Opimius consul videret, ne quid res publica detrimenti caperet").
If in the meantime you have found something new to solve the question and
enlighten me, please let me know!
Valete
Marcus Marcius Rex
|
| Subject: |
Iuno |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:08:17 -0500 |
|
The new temple of Iuno is at:
<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/iuno" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/iuno</a>
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdote
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/iuno" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/iuno</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Has the Dictator Stepped Down? (etc) |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:32:09 PDT |
|
Salvete, Quirites!
It seems very unfortunate that our (ex)Dictator cannot even abdicate without
causing ructions. It strikes me, as a bystander, and not really a political
animal, that what is doing NovaRoma most damage is not what some citizens
with a high public profile actually do, quite so much as the way they do it,
nor what they say so much as they way they say it. The good M. M. Audens had
it about right, I think, when he said:
>Sir; I do not consider myself either English-impaired or a mind-reader..
>The question was a good one and a flippant response is not worthy of
>you. You have done too much work and worked to hard to have any of it
>marred. You said that the Dictator was in charge. During that time, I
>made no official comments to anyone but you. It is only reasonable that
>the requirement of precise notification of step down be provided by you.
>There is no way in which anyone would know of a last minute problem
>except you. You as the dictator had the responsiility to tell NR not
>only your intent but also when you laid down your burden..
>
>If I remember correctly, you did not appreciate insulting and flippant
>language directed at you. The others in NR, although not in the more
>dizzying heights of command authority, do not care for it any more than
>you did.
- now as I recall, Citizens, Germanicus announced an initial intention to
step down at the Apollinarian Games; then later, he announced that he would
be continuing to serve until December. Some resultant confusion on the part
of the populace who do not have the privilege of being in close, regular
communication with him and thus know his mind, can I think be excused.
Referring to citizens as 'English-impaired' may also, no matter how
humourously meant, have rather upset our citizens in Brasilia, Thule and
elsewhere who do not readily speak or understand English. Germanicus'
habitual, combative style of debate verges, in my opinion, on being a
negative political attribute. (He is, of course, not the only one of whom
one could say that). I would seriously counsel all those on the political
rostrum to save and re-read drafts of their posts before sending anything
contentious to the List, perhaps imagining themselves as they do so, to be
the main recipients for whom their posts are intended.
While I'm feeling indignant (and this IS a revised draft!), I want to take
issue with Consul Palladius:
>There is one open seat of consul (he wrote).
- that is a matter of some debate. It should not be allowed to go
unchallenged. Here again, Germanicus:
>Just because you disapprove of my removing
>Cincinnatus as a citizen for his role in the conspiracy that led to the
>Interregnum, don't add mischaracterization to your political games. It
>won't
>help Cincinnatus' cause.
- accusing Cincinnatus of conspiracy justifying interregnum could equally
well be interpreted by some as a 'political game' of 'mischaracterisation'.
Don't you see how this kind of accusatory style lowers the tone of the whole
debate and makes it a matter of personal vituperation? (I know Cincinnatus
is not guiltless of this either, but does it really matter who started it?)
Lastly, I would like to remind Consul Palladius that the Senate now has to
meet to _debate_, not 'ratify' the acts of the provisional government during
the Interregnum. It _may_ decide to ratify them, of course, but that's
another matter. Personally, I hope that the actions taken with regard to
Cincinnatus - and Gangalius, who did react out of all proper measure toward
Germanicus, but who is a dam' fine web site designer - will receive their
early attention. Until matters such as these are resolved, we will surely
continue to be pulling in different directions.
I'm sorry that I had to say all that, but I do feel a little care should be
taken to raise the standard of debate here: ask yourselves, populares: how
many peregrini come, observe our wranglings, and leave disgusted, perhaps to
spread negative publicity about NR wherever they go?
Valete bene, omnes, in pace deorum,
Nicolaus Moravius Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Has the Dictator Stepped Down? (etc) |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:14:57 -0400 |
|
Salvete Nicolaue Moravi et alii
Please correct my declension of your praenomen if I screw it up.
:From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
:
:It seems very unfortunate that our (ex)Dictator cannot even abdicate
without
:causing ructions--deletion---The good M. M. Audens had
:it about right, I think, when he said:
:
:>Sir; I do not consider myself either English-impaired or a mind-reader..
:- now as I recall, Citizens, Germanicus announced an initial intention to
:step down at the Apollinarian Games; then later, he announced that he would
:be continuing to serve until December.
I have no recollection of Germanicus mentioning that he might serve until
December. I, however, did ask him to consider sticking around for a few
months, at least until an assembly could be successfully convened and some
voting completed. Germanicus rejected my suggestion immediately, and always
made it plain, as far as I saw from his posts to this list, that he was
going to step down as soon as possible, if not a little sooner.
:Referring to citizens as 'English-impaired' may also, no matter how
:humourously meant, have rather upset our citizens in Brasilia, Thule and
:elsewhere who do not readily speak or understand English.
This was certainly not the right comment to make. But I think that we all
make mistakes from time to time, and Novoromani of good will, in Brasilia,
Thule and elsewhere will find it in their hearts to forgive this breach.
Germanicus'
:habitual, combative style of debate verges, in my opinion, on being a
:negative political attribute.
That's odd. You say that he has a "habitual, combative style", and yet he
responded politely to just about every single message that I posted here,
pointing out aspects of his laws with which I disagreed, and even typo's and
Latin grammar mistakes. Some other elected and appointed magistrates here
have insulted and flamed me for doing such, even though I had sent them
private e-mails, and offered my comments at their request! Germanicus
weighed some of the comments of people here and changed some of his proposed
laws because he saw that we had made some points. That seems to me
demonstrative of anything but a habitually combative style.
:While I'm feeling indignant (and this IS a revised draft!), I want to take
:issue with Consul Palladius:
:
:>There is one open seat of consul (he wrote).
:
:- that is a matter of some debate. It should not be allowed to go
:unchallenged.
All right, challenge it. Perhaps you can adduce some reasoning here why the
Senate should overturn that particular action of Germanicus. By the way,
Germanicus himself has already reversed most of the substance of that action
already, and I think that Cincinnatus will probably be restored to the
office of consul by the new Senate anyway, no matter what you and I write or
don't write on this list. (Assuming that we can all remain civil and
cooperative enough to make Nova Roma work long enough for that even to
happen)
But while you're preparing your post, including all the references to the
names of the people who sent you the messages, or are mentioned in those
messages as bringing about the Impeachment/Interregnum, consider the
alternative: the amnesty that Germanicus put into one of his parting
edicta. Isn't that amnesty attractive to you in some way? Because if you
make a good case, you'll undoubtedly do so by incriminating someone
(singular, plural, who knows?) in screwing up Nova Roma almost beyond
repair. As Graecus said in the first week of July, "SOMEONE was stupid".
Your case, if it's good enough to show clearly that Cincinnatus was in no
way to blame, will point to a different SOMEONE. And our elected
magistrates next year would be remiss if they did not follow through by
studying your case and putting that SOMEONE on trial. I for one would never
shut up until such action were taken. So think about it.
:
:Lastly, I would like to remind Consul Palladius that the Senate now has to
:meet to _debate_, not 'ratify' the acts of the provisional government
during
:the Interregnum. It _may_ decide to ratify them, of course, but that's
:another matter. Personally, I hope that the actions taken with regard to
:Cincinnatus - and Gangalius, who did react out of all proper measure toward
:Germanicus, but who is a dam' fine web site designer - will receive their
What action was taken against Gangalius? Are you referring to Germanicus
taking over the webmaster duties? I never saw any statement to the effect
that that was an action against Gangalius.
If it was a punitive action against Gangalius, then I have a problem with
this too. I never saw anything like a charge against Ganglius. And I for
one cannot see Nova Roma surviving a pattern of that type of punitive action
in the absence of some kind of adversarial process. The action against
Cincinnatus, while I cannot say that it was the right or wrong thing to do,
was the first act of a dictator responding to a crisis -- I resigned myself
to swallowing that one. But at least in that case Germanicus accompanied
notification of his decision with this --
"Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, who has demonstrated a willingness to
subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve his desired ends, and as such
represents a grave threat to the State, is hereby removed from membership in
the Senate, his Citizenship is hereby revoked, and he is hereby banned from
re-applying for Citizenship for a period of ten years."
If relieving Ganglius of the webmaster duties was a reaction to some real or
perceived wrongdoing of Gangalius, then at the very least a full, official
explanation must be promptly forthcoming. Palladi, Germanice? Did I miss
something?
:early attention. Until matters such as these are resolved, we will surely
:continue to be pulling in different directions.
The Impeachment/Interregnum affair demonstrated that, to the extent that
anyone was pulling in any direction whatsoever, they were doing so in
entirely different directions. As of the kalends of last month, Nova Roma
had been shelved as a failed experiment. The only Nova Roma that can go
forth now is the one that has been shaped by the Dictator.
Even if the new Senate chooses to scrap much of what Germanicus did, it will
still be the Nova Roma that Germanicus shaped (for whatever minimal length
of time it may exist), because he made the new Senate. And, I for one don't
want to see an endless debate about how the constitution should be
re-worked, because we cannot pass any laws or do much of anything until we
have a constitution in place. That's why I fired off so many messages
within such a short time to Germanicus via this list to point out what I
thought were flaws in the laws. The senators, too, as far as I know, have
access to this list, and thus to my comments on the laws. If you have a
good idea for a constitutional amendment, I think that the prudent thing now
would be to send it privately to some of the senators. If they don't react
too favorably, save it for next year. After all, if Nova Roma doesn't last
long enough to elect magistratus ordinarios at the end of the year, what's
the point in worrying about reforming the constitution?
If one or two of Germanicus' accompanying laws/decrees/edicts is found
unsuitable by the new Senate, maybe they could invite citizens to draft
"replacement" laws/decrees/edicts. But it doesn't take an advanced degree
in haruspicium to figure out that such a process could drag on and collapse
pretty easily under its own weight.
:
:I'm sorry that I had to say all that, but I do feel a little care should
be
:taken to raise the standard of debate here: ask yourselves, populares: how
:many peregrini come, observe our wranglings, and leave disgusted, perhaps
to
:spread negative publicity about NR wherever they go?
Yes, I've had that concern too. It's hard to put a good face on the
Impeachment/Interregnum affair, and some of the
communication/miscommunication that surrounded it. I hope that we can all
learn from it and move forward all the faster and stronger for it.
:
:Valete bene, omnes, in pace deorum,
Idem dico tibi Nicolaue Moravi et omnibus vobis
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
:
:Nicolaus Moravius Vado.
:
|
| Subject: |
Personal Stuff |
| From: |
Donmeaker@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:00:49 EDT |
|
My darling wife Crystal (Priestess of Juno) has a growth on her eye. We are a
little nervous about it, and would like all concerned folks to send out love
and light to her.
Don Meaker
Gaius Corneilius Mamertinus
|
