| Subject: |
Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped Down?) |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:27:29 PDT |
|
Salvete Merulle et alii
I'll be brief (for a change): Merulle, all your points of yesterday are well
made, and I concede every one - saving only this last:
>I hardly think
>that Germanicus has brought an army to trample and dig up your garden.
- Welllll, nooo. Erm... not AS SUCH. At least I didn't SEE Germanicus in
person in my garden. The fact remains, though, that a maniple of Praetorians
have left a Cruise missile road launcher in back there. (The Lar is very
cross indeed). This launcher is painted bright red, with thunderbolts and
the letters 'SPQR' picked out on the sides in gold. Will the people who left
it there, please for Vertumnus' sake take the rem perditam away again? If
nobody claims it within the next 30 days I shall donate it to the local
cohort of the Second Legion Augusta in Portus Adurni, who currently have to
make do with ballistae.
Iterum Merullus:
>If
>you believe that Cincinnatus has worked hard for Nova Roma, and you care
>about Nova Roma, then I think that you could in good conscience thank
>Germanicus for his work.
- Bene. Fiat. With the exception of Cincinnatus' cruel and unusual
punishment... Thank you, Germanicus, for doing all the work you did. Perhaps
we can agree to disagree on just how necessary it all was. Let's hope it all
proves to have been worthwhile and beneficial. We shall see what fruits we
harvest in Autumn.
Scripsit post haec Palladius:
>I intend to revive an ancient
>tradition today. It is a tradition that is primarily associated with
>the Imperial Era and was started by Augustus, but nevertheless suits
>the purpose and focus of Nova Roma quite well. The tradition is to
>start each meeting of the senate with prayers and offerings to the
>Goddess Victory at the Altar of Victory. For those of you not familiar
>with the Altar or its history, it was put in the Senate house by
>Augustus after the battle of Actium. It was meant to represent not just
>his victory but the triumph of the Roman spirit over adversity.
- Beautiful!!! Excellent idea! Does my heart GOOD to see the Religio back
on the Main List as a main item!
Nunc Germanicus:
> > - on or about 26 July (I have these extracts from forwarded text but
>cannot
> > locate the originals at present)the following was posted by Germanicus:
> >
> > ><AMPUTATIO>As legally appointed Dictator<AMPUTATIO>, I hereby assume
>the
> > >office of curator araneum through the end of the year.>
> > <AMPUTATIO>(I should say I intend to step down come December...)>
> >
> > - don't think I'm complaining that Germanicus has modified this
>decision:
>no
> > one can accuse him of inflexibility. I merely intended to point out that
> > some of us found it all rather confusing.
>
>Actually, that was referring to my intention to step down as curator
>araneum
>come December (i.e., so the position could be filled in the December
>elections). Apologies if I was less than clear. But, considering the whole
>paragraph was talking about my role as curator araneum, I thought it would
>have been a little silly to assume people would think I suddenly shifted
>gears in a parenthetical aside at the end of the paragraph, and was
>suddenly
>talking about my office of dictator.
- Sorry, Germanicus: It was an ungenerous assumption on my part, which led
to my mis-reading it.
Valete bene, omnes, in pace deorum,
Vado.
"Inuriae suspiciones, inimicitiae bellum, pax rursum."
(Slights, suspicions, enmities, war, then peace again)
- Terentius Afer, Eunuchous 1.1,14f.
|
| Subject: |
Conversations |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:50:39 -0400 (EDT) |
|
I have enjoyed your conversations immensely, and have read them
carefully. Certainly your in -depth considerations reflect new light on
the problem before the Senate.
At first, I could not see any reason what-so-ever for Cinncinnatus to be
singled out, but as the full story began to come out, there were
whisperings that perhaps all was not as the Consul had told me, and
perhaps I should look further. Is that reason to punish the Consul
because he did not tell all to his quaestor? It may be unwise, but
certainly not criminal.
Cinncinnatus has been formally charged with several counts of
indifference and refusal to consider citizen's requests and ideas by
Maria Fimbria. I have reviewed those charges, and for the most part
they are the products of disappointment for an inapropriate set of
requests. They indicate a certain insensitivity on the part of the
senior consul, however is it a reason to punish a Consul for being
blunt.?? It won't do the individual much good in the long run, but it
is hardly criminal.
While I agree that there was no way to force the Censors to do their job
under the Constitution, since the job needied doing, how do you proceed
without the benefit of being a Dictator???. Cinncinnatus' discussion
with me about supporting him was an outgrowth of the Roman Days
discussion in which the work was promised by a certain date. When the
date was exceeded by several days, only then did this cabal begin to
form. There were several suggestions, including impeachment, from the
members of the cabal, and those were, to my awareness downplayed by
Cinncinnatus, and in fact I called him on the phone and discussed the
fact that I would not support impeachment of anyone. Gangalius was
writing the charges against the Censors and Palladius, but unless he was
told by Cinncinnatus to include all comments specifically, there was no
force for such detail. Cinncinnatus' agreement with me on the phone
makes the above unlikely. Gangallus asked me if I would be willing to
write the cover letter to the charges, and I agreed, asking him to send
me a copy of the charges.. You know what happened when Flavia Claudia
got her copy. She made no attempt to find out why the "Impeachmnt
Papers" were different from our agreed goal to get the Tribes and
Centuries on paper. I did not see the "impeachment Papers" until the
following day as I was at an event, and it was in the middle of my
protest message that the lights went out. I cannot say positively that
Gangulus had any aggressive feelings in writing what he did. I think it
was simply that he put all the suggestions received together,for
consideration by the members of the cabal. Remember, at that point
nothing was chipped in stone. It was to my knowledge certainly open to
question. In my case they certainly would have had to be modified
seriously in order to prvent my withdrawal from said cabal, and
Cinncinnatus understood that. Nobody wished anyone thrown out of office,
the whole point was to get the Tribes and Centuries done. It may be
that Cinncinnatus overstepped his authority, and that we of the cabal
did wrong. However, an old Navy maxim of the Bridge Officer, if you
will allow me, says:.
"If your ship is in trouble turn the helm either right or left. If your
decision is wrong revise it as soon as possible. To do nothing is to
lead to disaster."
Therefore, because of a precipitant action by an individual whose word
was held as trustworthy, those papers became "Impeachment Papers" when
it was my understanding and agreement that impeachment was not to be
even considered. Is Cinncinatus to be held responsible for this act?
Absolutely!!! Any leader is responsible for the actions of the group he
/ she leads. However, since the intention was not what it seems, and the
consideration that there was no other way to deal with the situation
(the Constitution gave no clue and the Senate was dominated by those who
were delinquent and others of hostile intent toward Cinncinnatus for a
variety of reasons)
(I had volunteered to take on the job of Tribes and Centuries and was
told that my elctronic internet equipment was not sufficient for the
job)
Since all members of the cabal have testified at one time or another
that impeachment was not a consideration, and since you believe
Cinncinnatus honorable enough to be in the Senate, why is it so
difficult to believe what he says and drop the impeachment discussion??
I then believe that Cinncinnatus had some justification in his actions,
but failed on a couple of details. I further believe that is not
grounds for removal of a Consul. If all of the above information had
come to light at once, the above may well have been worthy of a warning
to the Consul, but under no circumstances the cutting off of the main
line of communication, and the selection of one man to be punished
without at least trying to determine if the situation was as it seemed.
If there is insufficient evidence to support guilt then he should be
restored fully. If there is a real fear that such an investigation will
harm NR further then restore him completely so that. those in the future
will not look over their shoulders at disgrace and failure because they
did the best they could.
As I see it, I understand the reaction of the group who cut off the
power. I do not condone it, but I believe that they and I have gotten
past that and it is water under the bridge. It has cost me considerably
in dignas and in rage at my treatment during those days, and the
struggle to be replaced in some semblance of my former position in NR to
assist in it's development for which I must thank all my particular
friends who asked me to come back as well as Germanicus for his liberal
actions toward me. In this cost I have learned a few things, that I had
forgotten, but will not forget again.
There is a number of rumors which are rife in NR now, which are the
imaginings of minds who feared for their situations and who reacted out
of hand and with justifications of their own. There is no concrete
proof of them that I can find, and I have no personal knowledge thereof,
so I will not bother you with them. I cannot document my alledged
behavior or comments above except to assure on my honor it is true. I
thought that you might be interested in such..
It is also in my mind to ask you both to serve as advisors to my
standing for election to Consul.. Several people have asked me to
consider that action, and I have consented. In the event that
Cinncinnatus is not returned to his Consulship, I will stand for the
position and short term of Consul this year. If he is returned, I shall
stand for the position of Consul in the new year. I would very much
appreciate you gentleman considering acting with me in this request.
Both of you have demonstrated a unique insight into NR matters and have
in my view been able to clearly and concisely state your views. I am
very impressed by you both and would wish for the opportunity to work
with you on this project, as well as get to know you better. Thank you,
in advance, for your kind consideration of this humble request.
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped Down?) |
| From: |
Diomus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:14:43 EDT |
|
In a message dated 8/6/99 1:27:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
<< From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
Salvete Merulle et alii
I'll be brief (for a change): Merulle, all your points of yesterday are well
made, and I concede every one - saving only this last:
>I hardly think
>that Germanicus has brought an army to trample and dig up your garden.
- Welllll, nooo. Erm... not AS SUCH. At least I didn't SEE Germanicus in
person in my garden. >>
Salve,
Actually I not only saw Germanicus trampling in your garden but I also
was able to aquire some pictures as well. Since an army was used in this act
of malice I suggest that the Senate hold a war crimes tribunal against
Germanicus. Since I am not sure if the Senate can agree to do this I think
we need to reappoint Germanicus as dictator until his war crimes tribunal is
done.
Vale,
Flavius Lucianius Diomus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped Down?) |
| From: |
Diomus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:17:42 EDT |
|
I also volunteer my service so serve as a special prosecutor for the war
crimes tribunal against Germanicus.
Vale,
Flavius Lucianius Diomus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped Down?) |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:54:49 -0700 |
|
Salve Diomus, This, I am assuming is a joke...Correct? Being that it is a joke,
that is how I am taking it...we do have a list the Via Trames. Please feel free
to post there. the address is <a href="mailto:viatrames@--------" >viatrames@--------</a>. Please feel free to join
that.
Vale
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------; wrote:
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 8/6/99 1:27:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
>
> << From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Merulle et alii
>
> I'll be brief (for a change): Merulle, all your points of yesterday are well
> made, and I concede every one - saving only this last:
>
> >I hardly think
> >that Germanicus has brought an army to trample and dig up your garden.
>
> - Welllll, nooo. Erm... not AS SUCH. At least I didn't SEE Germanicus in
> person in my garden. >>
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually I not only saw Germanicus trampling in your garden but I also
> was able to aquire some pictures as well. Since an army was used in this act
> of malice I suggest that the Senate hold a war crimes tribunal against
> Germanicus. Since I am not sure if the Senate can agree to do this I think
> we need to reappoint Germanicus as dictator until his war crimes tribunal is
> done.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Lucianius Diomus
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!
> For details and to order, go to:
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped Down?) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:39:55 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Oh ye Gods! What ever happened to dignitas?
Vale,
Germanicus
----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Lost Property (was Has the Dictator Stepped
Down?)
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132176253213194233015098190036129" >Diomus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 8/6/99 1:27:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
>
> << From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Merulle et alii
>
> I'll be brief (for a change): Merulle, all your points of yesterday are
well
> made, and I concede every one - saving only this last:
>
> >I hardly think
> >that Germanicus has brought an army to trample and dig up your garden.
>
> - Welllll, nooo. Erm... not AS SUCH. At least I didn't SEE Germanicus in
> person in my garden. >>
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually I not only saw Germanicus trampling in your garden but I also
> was able to aquire some pictures as well. Since an army was used in this
act
> of malice I suggest that the Senate hold a war crimes tribunal against
> Germanicus. Since I am not sure if the Senate can agree to do this I
think
> we need to reappoint Germanicus as dictator until his war crimes tribunal
is
> done.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Lucianius Diomus
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!
> For details and to order, go to:
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Apologies for this TEST |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Aug 1999 18:43:03 -0700 |
|
Audens. Once again messages that I send to your personal email address. I keep getting
Bounce notices. Have you been gotten personal messages from me over this last week?
Among other things I have found a site that has some Roman engineer reconstructions.
This is the link to the home page
<a href="http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Hummel/legiov~1.htm" target="_top" >http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Hummel/legiov~1.htm</a>
And this is the page that has the pictures that made me think of our own Roman engineer.
At the bottom of the page are a _groma_ and a light crane:
<a href="http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Hummel/legviii5.htm" target="_top" >http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Hummel/legviii5.htm</a>
As well as some legionary pix that many of us can enjoy.
BTW, I found this site through the Nova Roma RE-Enactors' links.
Valete.
Ericius.
|
| Subject: |
Newsgroup |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:48:11 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I just wanted to bounce an idea of of you and take an informal poll. How
many people have access to the alt.politics.micronations newsgroup? Do you
think that could be a valid alternative to the email list, at least for the
more politically-oriented posts and such? (I'm thinking with a marker in the
header such as NR or something.)
Alt.politics.micronations isn't a high-traffic newsgroup, but I think
everyone in the micronational community subscribes. Were we to start posting
there, not only would we get a lot of publicity, but might invigorate a
forum for the whole intermicronational community.
Whatcha think?
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Newsgroup |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:54:00 -0700 |
|
I think its an excellent idea...we just need to make sure our News readers
are able to get that newsgroup. :) I know on Earthlink we are able to get
that. Just check with your Local ISP. :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 8:48 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Newsgroup
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I just wanted to bounce an idea of of you and take an informal poll. How
> many people have access to the alt.politics.micronations newsgroup? Do you
> think that could be a valid alternative to the email list, at least for
the
> more politically-oriented posts and such? (I'm thinking with a marker in
the
> header such as NR or something.)
>
> Alt.politics.micronations isn't a high-traffic newsgroup, but I think
> everyone in the micronational community subscribes. Were we to start
posting
> there, not only would we get a lot of publicity, but might invigorate a
> forum for the whole intermicronational community.
>
> Whatcha think?
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,
> programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
> <a href=" <a href="http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce</a> ">Click</a>
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>
|
