| Subject: |
Re: My name on the Album Civium? |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:41:42 -0700 (PDT) |
|
I, too, am quite disappointed that my name is nowhere
enrolled on the list of citizens; though that may be
because I have only recently received my citizenship.
I would ask that the Censors take action to remedy
this oversight.
Lucius Licinius Varro Murena
BTW, I'm including links to some non-commercial
history projects which I am involved with, and with
which, I presume, some citizens of Nova Roma may find
useful.
This is a link to historical texts on the Roman
Republic:
<a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook09.html" target="_top" >http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook09.html</a>
This is a link to historical texts on the Roman
Empire:
<a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook10.html" target="_top" >http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook10.html</a>
This is a link to ancient legal texts:
<a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook-law.html" target="_top" >http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook-law.html</a>
You may also wish to check out this link to medieval
legal texts, as the editor (a Byzantinist) put most of
the Corpus Iuris Civilis in the Medieval sourcebook:
<a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook-law.html" target="_top" >http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook-law.html</a>
This is a link to historical fiction (an old file
which admittedly needs updating):
<a href="http://orb.rhodes.edu/non_spec/fiction.html" target="_top" >http://orb.rhodes.edu/non_spec/fiction.html</a>
Valete
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
ATTN: Edict for the Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:36:26 +0100 |
|
Salvete cives
As demanded by our sacred laws, auspices were taken by Augur Damianus
Lucianus Dexippus, which have shown August 26th to be a propicious day for
the assembling of the Comitia Plebis.
The order of works will only comprise the election of the vacant office of
Aedilis Plebis.
The list of candidadates has only one element:
G. Africanus Secundus Germanicus, Paterfamilias of the Gens Africania
Secunda.
I here make an appeal for our citizens to follow the example of this citizen
and to have more participation in the public affairs of our nation, as
general elections will soon have place, and much work is there to be done.
After careful reasoning I decided not to include the ratification of the new
Constitution in order of works of the Comitia Plebis. Although some citizens
have requested some action for the sake of the people, I have taken my
decision precisely for the sake of the people. My reasons may not be new for
you and are the following:
- All this electoral process is already the reflection of the new
Constitution. To ratify the new Constitution following its own procedures
would have no sense. On the other hand, we cannot ratify the new
Constitution by following the old, as the electoral structures of the latter
are nonexistent.
- Not to ratify the Constitution would only lead to another crisis, maybe
another dictatorship, more resignments, more time lost, fewer citizens, less
credibility, insult to the Gods.
- The Comitia Plebis would not be the right place to ractify the
Constitution, and many of our good citizens (namely the patrician) would not
accept its decision as legal. To do it would thus create an USELESS conflict
with the senior magistrates.
- The new Constitution is already giving good fruits, the first of them
being the Comitia Ceanturiata and Comitia Plebis of August 26th. The people
is being given opportunities they never had before. As such, the new
Constitution can only be good for the people.
I hope you understand my reasons, anyway, I'm sure that my decision will be
judged fairly by the people in a future Comitia Plebis like the one we shall
be holding (due to the new Constitution) on August 26th.
Valete omnes,
Antonio Grilo
|
| Subject: |
In the latest Explorator |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:42:34 -0400 |
|
Some excerpts from the issue 2.46:
Today's Independent has a report on the discovery of a Roman coin hoard
which "is thought to have been buried by one of Britain's first
millionaires" (this one will expire):
<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/atp/INDEPENDENT/NEWS/P8S1.html" target="_top" >http://www.independent.co.uk/atp/INDEPENDENT/NEWS/P8S1.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/atp/INDEPENDENT/NEWS/P8S1.html" target="_top" >http://www.independent.co.uk/atp/INDEPENDENT/NEWS/P8S1.html</a>>
The Times reports on evidence which apparently answers one of the
"mysteries" of the Roman army: where they kept their horses:
<a href="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/timcrtcrt01010.html?2177977" target="_top" >http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/timcrtcrt01010.html?2177977</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/timcrtcrt01010.html?2" target="_top" >http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/timcrtcrt01010.html?2</a>
177977>
Il Messaggero has a report on the Julia Felix (a second century shipwreck):
<a href="http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/IULIA.htm" target="_top" >http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/IULIA.htm</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/IULIA.htm" target="_top" >http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/IULIA.htm</a>>
Il Messaggero also has a sort of 'look what's been found underwater lately'
sidebar:
<a href="http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/SCAFI.htm" target="_top" >http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/SCAFI.htm</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/SCAFI.htm" target="_top" >http://www.ilmessaggero.it/hermes/19990821/01_NAZIONALE/20/SCAFI.htm</a>>
If you've been wondering what Robert Ballard has been up to, he's
apparently poking around the Black Sea, looking for evidence to support the
recent theory about the 'Great Flood' emanating from there; the National
Geographic has a nice online feature on Ballard's current efforts:
<a href="http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/" target="_top" >http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/" target="_top" >http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/</a>>
ON THE LIGHTER SIDE
The satirical journal The Onion 'reports' on Congress' allocation of $4
billion for "Bread and Circuses"
<a href="http://www.theonion.com/onion3529/bread_and_circuses.html" target="_top" >http://www.theonion.com/onion3529/bread_and_circuses.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.theonion.com/onion3529/bread_and_circuses.html" target="_top" >http://www.theonion.com/onion3529/bread_and_circuses.html</a>>
REGULAR FEATURES
CTCWeb's Words of the Week (Words associated with Roman Goddesses)
<a href="http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/myword.html" target="_top" >http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/myword.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/myword.html" target="_top" >http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/myword.html</a>>
Radio Finland's Nuntii Latini
<a href="http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html" target="_top" >http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html" target="_top" >http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html</a>>
English translation (probably delayed):
<a href="http://www.cbc4kids.ca/general/whats-new/latin-news/mainlatin.html" target="_top" >http://www.cbc4kids.ca/general/whats-new/latin-news/mainlatin.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://www.cbc4kids.ca/general/whats-new/latin-news/mainlatin.html" target="_top" >http://www.cbc4kids.ca/general/whats-new/latin-news/mainlatin.html</a>>
AT THE ATRIUM
While grumbling about the lack of an announcement of my ISP's downtime, I
decided to start putting online some more recent issues of Commentarium --
something which will be done fairly frequently over the next few weeks.
I've just put up the October 1998 issue, which has news from September
(don't complain! I'm still ahead of plenty of academic journals! 8^));
there are also links to back issues etc.:
<a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/commentarium.html" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/commentarium.html</a>
<url:<a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/commentarium.htm" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/commentarium.htm</a>
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:58:11 -0500 |
|
On 21 Aug 99, at 7:13, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:55:30 -0400
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
> Subject: Re: Re: Election Announcment
> >
> Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
> more."
>
Well thank the Mother for THAT!! This is news to me, but.....
I'll be removing the Temple to Juno page post haste!!
Amethystia IC Crystallina (no longer your priestess)
> Brave words from you, considering one Sunday morning you came to me and
> asked me to move her application to the priesthood through. At the time,
> you seemed to think I had some authority. But now... I guess now that
> there's nothing more I can do for you, you're changing your tune. You
> liked the dictatorship well enough when you benefitted from it; you show
> your true mettle now that you think you can gain something from bashing
> me.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Comments; Mist. Iden. |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:21:55 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Marcus Marcius Rex
Salve, Citizen;
You are quite welcome. There was a time when I resided in Spain, that
the good people of that country refused to talk to me unless I "tried"
to speak Spanish. As long as I tried, things were just fine. You do
much better than just try. Welcome to Nova Roma, and welcome to the
List. Your comments seem well thought out and reasonable, without
compromizing a polite approach, or deliberately trying to offend anyone.
Such a message as that is always welcome here.
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens.
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Album Civium now on-line |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:35:29 -0400 |
|
Ave Germanice! Magnam rem fecisti! Totam populam Novae Romae ut vobis (tibi
et collegam tuam, certe) gratias agamus me iuncturam esse certo! Ave! Ave!
MPJ
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:05:44 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
I've been reading many complaints of priests about the people not visiting
their temples, etc. While it is expected to any priest to have many
followers of his deity, I think he should also put the following questions
to himself:
- Am I a priest for the honor of you deity or to the eyes of the others?
- Am I really making an effort to motivate the people come to my temple?
I.e. am I acting like a priest or simply trying to do some show off in the
near term?
- Am I motivated to take my priesthood seriously?
With the aid of the Gods, this should prevent resignations like those of the
Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
Valete,
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator, et coetera
-----Original Message-----
From: Don an--------ys Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 521
>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
>On 21 Aug 99, at 7:13, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:55:30 -0400
>> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
>> Subject: Re: Re: Election Announcment
>> >
>> Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
>> more."
>>
>
>Well thank the Mother for THAT!! This is news to me, but.....
>
>I'll be removing the Temple to Juno page post haste!!
>
>Amethystia IC Crystallina (no longer your priestess)
>
>> Brave words from you, considering one Sunday morning you came to me and
>> asked me to move her application to the priesthood through. At the time,
>> you seemed to think I had some authority. But now... I guess now that
>> there's nothing more I can do for you, you're changing your tune. You
>> liked the dictatorship well enough when you benefitted from it; you show
>> your true mettle now that you think you can gain something from bashing
>> me.
>>
>> Vale,
>>
>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:54:58 EDT |
|
<< Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
more." >>
And why isn't Crystalina Priestess of Juno?
What the hell is going on now?
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
the current situation |
| From: |
"Tinnekke Bebout" tinnekke@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:05:04 GMT |
|
Salvete Omnes
I am going to take a sabbatical for a while. My life is busy and I find all
the political sniping going on to be pointless. If anyone wishes to contact
me offlist they can do so at this address. Let the college of Pontifices
also be served notice that I also withdraw my application as Flamen
Cerialis. I cannot serve NovaRoma in a sacred context when I feel the Gods
are abandoning the Senate to its own childish bickering.
Valete
Lucina Iunia Cypria
|
| Subject: |
Bickering??? |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:30:32 -0500 (CDT) |
|
I really fail to see where there has been any real bickering
beyond people just having normal discussions in the senate. Most of the
bickering is actually started on this list from some cives- usually the
same ones who have always been bickering from day one ( it often seems
to me arguement for the sake of arguement).
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Bickering??? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:56:21 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Bickering??? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:58:49 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Sorry for the "no words" message. I hit the wrong button. Apologies to
all!!!!
MMAudens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Critical Reading (was Re: Digest Number 521) |
| From: |
Marius Fimbria legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:10:59 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Germanicus scripsit:
>> Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
>> more."
...et Crystallina respondit:
>Well thank the Mother for THAT!! This is news to me, but.....
...y digo yo:
Whoa, *whoa*, WHOA, *WHOA*, people...let's take a minute to get our
bearings, shall we? Let me summarize my own understanding of this
exchange thus far:
Cornelius Mamertinus posted his view that nothing that has happened in
Nova Roma in the last six weeks has any real validity, citing several
examples of situations that in his judgement are and still ought to be
just as they were before the Dictatorship of Germanicus. (Why anyone
would want us to return to that bitter and benighted state of affairs
is beyond me, but...a man's entitled to his opinion, and I can respect
it even if I don't happen to agree.)
The statement of Germanicus quoted above was in response to Mamertinus'
own assertion that NR's recent progress is an illusion which M. has
chosen to disbelieve. Germanicus was saying that, *if* everything done
since 4 July is a fantasy, *then* Crys' Priesthood must be a fantasy
too...as that was approved at the same time as all the rest.
'If...then...'. A common-enough formula for a logical statement, if
one has studied logic. A clear-enough signal that the thing being
discussed is merely hypothetical, even if one has not studied logic.
>I'll be removing the Temple to Juno page post haste!!
I think that's part of the problem here...too much post, in too much
haste. If someone thinks a barb in any List-mail is aimed at them, let
them please refrain from responding--let alone making any major
life-decisions, such as the forfeiture of a Priesthood!!--until they
have had a chance to read it over again once the feelings have died
down. I have often been surprised how much less offensive an e-gram
can be after a second or even a third reading.
One more time: Nobody has invalidated Crys's Priesthood!! Unless, of
course, somebody invalidates all the acts of Germanicus. In which
case, there is no NR; it just sort of imploded in late June, and those
among its Citizenry who are determined to be unhappy here are free to
disperse...
>Amethystia IC Crystallina (no longer your priestess)
-- L Marius Fimbria (still a Roman)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:27:17 -0500 |
|
On 23 Aug 99, at 15:05, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
> With the aid of the Gods, this should prevent resignations like those of
> the Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
>
> Valete,
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Senator, et coetera
Sorry ... I didn't quit ... I was FIRED. First I heard of it was when
dear Germy replied to my husbands opinions on this list. Oh well.
I'm sure someone more worthy will crop up. I WAS taking my
priesthood QUITE seriously dear Graecus. Guess Iuno forgot to
send me my pink slip. For that matter so did the College of
Pontifices and so did Germy.
I will not, however, mourn the time I will now dedicate to my family
as opposed to this 'organization'.
Amethystia IC Crystallina
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:39:31 +0100 |
|
Salvete Amethystia IC Crystallina et omnes
>Sorry ... I didn't quit ... I was FIRED. First I heard of it was when
>dear Germy replied to my husbands opinions on this list.
As already pointed by a citizen, you misinterpreted Germanicus' words. What
he wanted to say was that IF his actions turn to be invalid, THEN you cannot
ave your priesthood, for it was bestowed by him.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator et coetera
-----Original Message-----
From: Don an--------ys Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 521
>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
>On 23 Aug 99, at 15:05, Antonio Grilo wrote:
>
>>
>> With the aid of the Gods, this should prevent resignations like those of
>> the Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
>>
>> Valete,
>> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>> Senator, et coetera
>
>Sorry ... I didn't quit ... I was FIRED. First I heard of it was when
>dear Germy replied to my husbands opinions on this list. Oh well.
>I'm sure someone more worthy will crop up. I WAS taking my
>priesthood QUITE seriously dear Graecus. Guess Iuno forgot to
>send me my pink slip. For that matter so did the College of
>Pontifices and so did Germy.
>
>I will not, however, mourn the time I will now dedicate to my family
>as opposed to this 'organization'.
>
>Amethystia IC Crystallina
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist: your connection to online communities.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:39:14 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
Listen, I have been trying to understand this constitutional crap for
ever (give or take) and I STILL don't. Someone PLEASE answer
me this:
1. If the old constitution was illegal then anything stemming from
the illegal constitution is then illegal -- right? If not, please explain.
2. If Germy or Cassius or Marius or WHOEVER was appointed
dictator under the old/illegal constitution then every word typed by
the dictators hand is then illegal and so null and void -- right? If
not, please explain.
3. If the old constitution was illegal was there ANY way out
besides having the Senate (who would have been elected illegally
....) rewrite the constitution?
4. In order to make the constitution legal WHAT would have had to
happen?
Until I can be sure of the legalities I cannot be comfortable
representing Nova Roma as Priestess of ANYONE. I find it too
serious a commitment to make mistakes with. Maybe I should
have voiced this before, but ... well, I make mistakes too.
Crys (still reeling over actually AGREEING with Marius Fimbria
<G>)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Priestess resigning? |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:47:54 EDT |
|
Salve Tribune Graecus,
When and why did the priestess of Iuno resign? I saw that peculiar
statement by Germanicus, but I don't know what significance (if any) it
might have. Is this something that happened off-line?
Vale
L. Sergius Aust.
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> wrote:
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete omnes
>
>I've been reading many complaints of priests about the people not visiting
>their temples, etc. While it is expected to any priest to have many
>followers of his deity, I think he should also put the following questions
>to himself:
>
>- Am I a priest for the honor of you deity or to the eyes of the others?
>- Am I really making an effort to motivate the people come to my temple?
>I.e. am I acting like a priest or simply trying to do some show off in the
>near term?
>- Am I motivated to take my priesthood seriously?
>
>With the aid of the Gods, this should prevent resignations like those of the
>Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
>
>Valete,
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Senator, et coetera
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Bickering??? |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:47:57 EDT |
|
How funny, Marcus Minucius!! I thought you were just making a subtle
comment on the fact that the only kind of honest message that's safe here
any more is one that says nothing.
Maybe your unconscious was making that statement without your knowledge?
Or maybe I've just been a clinician too long! ;-)
Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>Sorry for the "no words" message. I hit the wrong button. Apologies to
>all!!!!
>
>MMAudens
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:04:33 +0100 |
|
Salvete
>1. If the old constitution was illegal then anything stemming from
>the illegal constitution is then illegal -- right? If not, please explain.
Almost... I would say "anything stemming from it after it was declared
illegal".
>2. If Germy or Cassius or Marius or WHOEVER was appointed
>dictator under the old/illegal constitution then every word typed by
>the dictators hand is then illegal and so null and void -- right? If
>not, please explain.
They were appointed under a (still) legal Constitution.
>3. If the old constitution was illegal was there ANY way out
>besides having the Senate (who would have been elected illegally
>....) rewrite the constitution?
It was done, voted and approved.
>4. In order to make the constitution legal WHAT would have had to
>happen?
The Comitia Centuriata was - by the old Constitution - the entity that could
vote changes to the Constitution. Unfortunately the fact that invalidated
the old Constitution was precisely that the Comitia were not formed, and
their formation had no guidelines. This makes any legal procedure (according
to the old Constitution) inherently illegal.
In other words - and we must be frontal about this - there was a coup d'etat
in order to make an workable Constitution, and the Senator decided that a
Dictator was needed. The Senate crucified Cincinnatus, declared the old
Constitution invalid and created a new one, where the Comitia can now be
held. So... Don't forget the Comitia Plebis to be held on August 26th.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis et coetera
|
| Subject: |
Re: Priestess resigning? |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:06:04 +0100 |
|
Salve
>When and why did the priestess of Iuno resign? I saw that peculiar
>statement by Germanicus, but I don't know what significance (if any) it
>might have. Is this something that happened off-line?
No... It was just a text badly written by Germanicus and badly read by
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina.
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Priestess resigning?
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>Salve Tribune Graecus,
>
>When and why did the priestess of Iuno resign? I saw that peculiar
>statement by Germanicus, but I don't know what significance (if any) it
>might have. Is this something that happened off-line?
>
>Vale
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>
><a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> wrote:
>>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>>
>>Salvete omnes
>>
>>I've been reading many complaints of priests about the people not visiting
>>their temples, etc. While it is expected to any priest to have many
>>followers of his deity, I think he should also put the following questions
>>to himself:
>>
>>- Am I a priest for the honor of you deity or to the eyes of the others?
>>- Am I really making an effort to motivate the people come to my temple?
>>I.e. am I acting like a priest or simply trying to do some show off in the
>>near term?
>>- Am I motivated to take my priesthood seriously?
>>
>>With the aid of the Gods, this should prevent resignations like those of
the
>>Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes.
>>
>>Valete,
>>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>>Senator, et coetera
>
>
>certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
>(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
>
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>
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:59:22 -0400 |
|
Quirites,
I stand on the Rostra to implore you all to stop, take a very large
breath, and just think about recent events. Rather than dwelling on how one
is to parse our former dictator's words or what constitution is in force,
we should be rejoicing! We have been enrolled in tribes and centuries! This
is a watershed moment! This is when Nova Roma becomes valid as a
micronation! This is when our *citizenship* in Nova Roma actually means
something!
What is past is past. It is time for a concordia ordinum and time for all
of us to make use of our newly-created institutions to move this
micronation forward! If I were tribune I'd be licking my chops at the
opportunity that has just been presented ... consider, some lucky tribune
among us is going to be the first to convene a tribal assembly. And I would
hope that the subject of that tribal assembly would be to essentially
validate the constitution so that there will never again be this bickering
about what is established legally or not. The creation of tribes and
centuries has, in effect, removed the power from those who seem to often be
in the catapult sights of certain cives and Nova Roma is now *ours*.
NovaRomani Novaromanaeque: set down your egos, sacrifice to Pietas and
Concordia, and begin to realize what the gods have wrought.
MPJ
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:11:43 +0100 |
|
Salvete Papirius Iustus et omnes
Just to point my position clear...
>And I would
>hope that the subject of that tribal assembly would be to essentially
>validate the constitution so that there will never again be this bickering
>about what is established legally or not.
Please refer to my edict on the Comitia Plebis. I have not included the
ratification of the Constitution in the agenda of the Comitia because the
Comitia constitutes already an article from the new Constitution.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis et coetera
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Pap--------s Justus <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] What is Constitutional?
>From: "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
>
>Quirites,
>
> I stand on the Rostra to implore you all to stop, take a very large
>breath, and just think about recent events. Rather than dwelling on how one
>is to parse our former dictator's words or what constitution is in force,
>we should be rejoicing! We have been enrolled in tribes and centuries! This
>is a watershed moment! This is when Nova Roma becomes valid as a
>micronation! This is when our *citizenship* in Nova Roma actually means
>something!
>
>What is past is past. It is time for a concordia ordinum and time for all
>of us to make use of our newly-created institutions to move this
>micronation forward! If I were tribune I'd be licking my chops at the
>opportunity that has just been presented ... consider, some lucky tribune
>among us is going to be the first to convene a tribal assembly. And I would
>hope that the subject of that tribal assembly would be to essentially
>validate the constitution so that there will never again be this bickering
>about what is established legally or not. The creation of tribes and
>centuries has, in effect, removed the power from those who seem to often be
>in the catapult sights of certain cives and Nova Roma is now *ours*.
>
>NovaRomani Novaromanaeque: set down your egos, sacrifice to Pietas and
>Concordia, and begin to realize what the gods have wrought.
>
>MPJ
>]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:19:37 -0400 |
|
Quirites,
Our tribune has told us that ratification of the constitution is not on
the agenda. Is this a matter for consternation? Is this a matter for more
bickering? Or is this a matter that just doesn't matter? Quirites, the fact
of the matter is that once we do exercise our privileges as cives by
voting, the constitution will be ipso facto ratified! We will be showing to
ourselves, to the nations, to the very gods who have deemed this nation
worthy of them, that we have, in fact, approved of it by using it. Weighty
matters indeed, Quirites!
MPJ
(who was thinking the other day that what Nova Roma really needs as a
unifying force is a common enemy; is there some micronation we could
declare war on?)
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:14:41 -0700 |
|
Oh my we werent very devoted in the first case? werent we. Remember the Good
of the Res Publica....Crys!
Sulla
*even more pissed off now*
Don and Crys Meaker wrote:
> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> On 21 Aug 99, at 7:13, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:55:30 -0400
> > From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
> > Subject: Re: Re: Election Announcment
> > >
> > Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
> > more."
> >
>
> Well thank the Mother for THAT!! This is news to me, but.....
>
> I'll be removing the Temple to Juno page post haste!!
>
> Amethystia IC Crystallina (no longer your priestess)
>
> > Brave words from you, considering one Sunday morning you came to me and
> > asked me to move her application to the priesthood through. At the time,
> > you seemed to think I had some authority. But now... I guess now that
> > there's nothing more I can do for you, you're changing your tune. You
> > liked the dictatorship well enough when you benefitted from it; you show
> > your true mettle now that you think you can gain something from bashing
> > me.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:13:45 -0500 |
|
On 21 Aug 99, at 7:13, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
Dear Germanicus,
First, though Crys hoped that supporting the Religio would add
some reason for our little club and you agreed at the time to
appoint her, does not mean that she would retain that for all time if
your acts were not ratified by the Senate (under the new) or the
Senate and people (under the old). So until that appointment is
ratified under the terms of the old, then there is at least doubt
about the long term legitimacy of the appointment.
Second, I did not ask you for anything. In fact, I specifically asked
you for nothing. I forgive your error, because we were exchanging
the keyboard back and forth, and you had much on your mind.
Since you did not give us Nothing, but instead gave us a new
constitution which would hardly be an emergency, (since the
United Kingdom seems to function after a fashion without a written
constitution.)
Third, if the old constitution was illegal, then Crystallina is not
priestess.That is a conclusion that can be drawn. I support Law,
even when it is not in my local interest. I urge you to do the same.
I don't know Roman history too well, but there was a time when the
U.S. Constitution was not technically valid. You see the Articles of
Confederation required all states to agree on changes. The
Constitution only required 9 before the new constitution took effect.
Fortunately, the new Constitution was soon ratified by the other 4
and the temporary time of dubious legality became moot. Of
course if the new Nova Roma submitted the new constitution to the
membership, and not just to the senate, (meeting the requirements
of the old constitution) it would do wonders for legitimacy. I actually
have little doubt that it would pass, though my preference would be
for a more direct democracy than reconstructing the historical
vagaries of the Comita. The historical context of the Comita gave it
a function. We have lost that context, so its function could be
better served. Same with the Lictors.
You and others seem to feel that if one joins, and you change the
ground rules out from under them that they must go along. Typical
dictator stuff. I recommend you review "Decision at Daybreak" a
WWII movie of how a moral man should behave in the context of a
dictator.
And as for my mettle, be thankful that you have not tasted it yet.
Don Meaker
formerly known as Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus
>
> Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
> more."
>
> Brave words from you, considering one Sunday morning you came to me and
> asked me to move her application to the priesthood through. At the time,
> you seemed to think I had some authority. But now... I guess now that
> there's nothing more I can do for you, you're changing your tune. You
> liked the dictatorship well enough when you benefitted from it; you show
> your true mettle now that you think you can gain something from bashing
> me.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:35:45 -0400 |
|
Salvete M Papiri et alii
>From: "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
>
,
>we should be rejoicing! We have been enrolled in tribes and centuries! This
>is a watershed moment! This is when Nova Roma becomes valid as a
>micronation! This is when our *citizenship* in Nova Roma actually means
>something!
Yes, how true. Gratias magnas ago Flavio Vedio Cermanico et Decio Iunio
Palladio pro eorum bono labore nostri gratia Vivat Nova Roma quae iam vivit
>
>What is past is past. It is time for a concordia ordinum and time for all
>of us to make use of our newly-created institutions to move this
>micronation forward!
How right you are.
And I would
>hope that the subject of that tribal assembly would be to essentially
>validate the constitution so that there will never again be this bickering
>about what is established legally or not.
I'm confident that this will not make into the agenda neither of the comitia
plebis (per the statement of A Gryllus Graecus Tribunus Plebis) nor of the
comitia centuriata (per the statement of D Iunius Palladius Consul). But
the very fact of people voting in these assemblies should have the effect
that you describe here, at least in my view.
The creation of tribes and
>centuries has, in effect, removed the power from those who seem to often be
>in the catapult sights of certain cives and Nova Roma is now *ours*.
>
>NovaRomani Novaromanaeque: set down your egos, sacrifice to Pietas and
>Concordia, and begin to realize what the gods have wrought.
I would, but I'm centum milia passuum a larario remotus :)
>
>MPJ
>]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:25:28 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes....
I agree completely! We all just need to move forward and put the past behind
us. Nova Roma is moving forward we all should move forward with it. Not for
our own personal sakes but for the sake of Nova Roma!
L. Cornelius Sulla
"M. Papirius Justus" wrote:
> From: "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
>
> Quirites,
>
> I stand on the Rostra to implore you all to stop, take a very large
> breath, and just think about recent events. Rather than dwelling on how one
> is to parse our former dictator's words or what constitution is in force,
> we should be rejoicing! We have been enrolled in tribes and centuries! This
> is a watershed moment! This is when Nova Roma becomes valid as a
> micronation! This is when our *citizenship* in Nova Roma actually means
> something!
>
> What is past is past. It is time for a concordia ordinum and time for all
> of us to make use of our newly-created institutions to move this
> micronation forward! If I were tribune I'd be licking my chops at the
> opportunity that has just been presented ... consider, some lucky tribune
> among us is going to be the first to convene a tribal assembly. And I would
> hope that the subject of that tribal assembly would be to essentially
> validate the constitution so that there will never again be this bickering
> about what is established legally or not. The creation of tribes and
> centuries has, in effect, removed the power from those who seem to often be
> in the catapult sights of certain cives and Nova Roma is now *ours*.
>
> NovaRomani Novaromanaeque: set down your egos, sacrifice to Pietas and
> Concordia, and begin to realize what the gods have wrought.
>
> MPJ
> ]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
George VanDeWater VanDeWGe@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:04:42 -0600 |
|
Salve, M. Papirius Justus
Euge! Te consentio.
I too look forward to a rebirth of Nova Roma. With the establishement of the tribes and centuries we can move forward instead of worrying about the past. Some great scholar once said; "The only day we can control or change is Today. Yesterday is gone and tomarrow is not here yet." Let us all pull together and make this work.
I for one can see great things ahaed.
vale,
G. Africanus Secundus Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:05:24 EDT |
|
In a message ----------------/08/99 19:30:23 GMT Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
writes:
<< (since the United Kingdom seems to function after a fashion without a
written
constitution.) >>
And am I glad we haven't got one if this is the trouble they cause! Mind you,
'President' Tony Blair is probably writing one while on holiday.
The UK's unwritten 'constitution' is a great system, especially for
politicians. The govt. can do virtually what the hell it likes in H M The
Queen's name (just ask Maggie Thatcher) and can shaft the population at will.
A little off topic, sorry.
Severus
Provincia Britannia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Bickering??? |
| From: |
JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:11:39 -0700 (PDT) |
|
But isn't bickering the heart and soul of any Republic
or democracy? Without it, would we even have a res
publica? This whole situation, in fact, reminds me of
the period around Sulla's dictatorship. Perhaps we
should look to the example of Vetus Roma to solve our
current differences?
L. Licinius Varro Murena
--- Dean Troy <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------e:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
>
> I really fail to see where there has been
> any real bickering
> beyond people just having normal discussions in the
> senate. Most of the
> bickering is actually started on this list from some
> cives- usually the
> same ones who have always been bickering from day
> one ( it often seems
> to me arguement for the sake of arguement).
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
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> ----------------------------
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:38:20 EDT |
|
In a message dated 8/23/1999 11:24:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a> wr--------:
<< (who was thinking the other day that what Nova Roma really needs as a
unifying force is a common enemy; is there some micronation we could
declare war on?) >>
Join the Social War!! Kill Samnites!!
QFM
|
| Subject: |
Get out the suffragium was Bickering??? |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:56:35 -0400 |
|
Salvete L Licini et alii
>From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
>
>But isn't bickering the heart and soul of any Republic
>or democracy?
Well, I can't imagine a Republic or Democracy without it. But then, I can't
really imagine a functioning true Democracy of any sort...
Without it, would we even have a res
>publica? This whole situation, in fact, reminds me of
>the period around Sulla's dictatorship. Perhaps we
>should look to the example of Vetus Roma to solve our
>current differences?
Hmmm. How did the Romans resolve their differences around that time? Ah
yes, proscriptions! The headless do not bicker :).
I agree that we should look at Roma Antiqua in forming all our institutions.
I also think that we exaggerate our differences out of frustration at the
difficulty in accomplishing any particular goal due largely to the lack of a
physical community. We are, after all, a large bunch of people scattered
about the world, rarely seeing any others, communicating by a very fast but
equally impersonal medium. In this condition, it is hard to identify any
commonalities, especially common goals, let alone work toward them.
The frustration was greatly magnified, I think, by the non-implementation of
the constitution. We are now clearing that hurdle, thanks to Germanicus'
and Palladius' formation of tribes and centuries. Thank you again Censores!
But we all still have to guard against our own impatience and intolerance,
since things are not now, or anyone time in the forseeable (to me) future,
going to take off with light speed.
Two things that I think can be done at this time:
i) Those who have held office, plebeian or patrician, in Nova Roma thus far
can weigh whether they could contribute in the capacity of consul, and, if
any of them thinks that his/her holding that office would benefit Nova Roma
at this stage in her development, follow L Cornelius Sulla's honorable
example and run for the office; plebeians can likewise consider whether
they can contribute in the capacity of aedile.
ii) All of us should vote!
Date suffragia Nolite perdormire horam cum Fortunata assignatam
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>L. Licinius Varro Murena
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:58:25 EDT |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 8/23/99 2:38:42 PM Centr----------------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:
> << (who was thinking the other day that what Nova Roma really needs as a
> unifying force is a common enemy; is there some micronation we could
> declare war on?) >>
> Join the Social War!! Kill Samnites!!
> QFM
Or perhaps just another micronation to compete with for progress in
government, number of members, treasury, etc. ::shrug::
::starts looking around for ideas::
-Alex Novus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 521 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:30:09 -0400 |
|
Salve,
I wrote:
>> Let's not forget: "Crystalina isn't Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes any
more."
Then Dexippus wrote:
> And why isn't Crystalina Priestess of Juno?
>
> What the hell is going on now?
What's going on is Crystalina is once again trying to create a crisis
centered around herself. Seems to happen about every ten days. Her husband
had given a list of things that he felt had never legally happened because I
was never legally dictator. I was simply adding to his own list, saying "if
you're right, then don't be self-serving and forget _this_ item, too."
But, of course, the dictatorship was legal and was ratified by legal
procedure, and thus none of the things on his list were illegally
accomplished. Including my appointing her sacerdotes.
So, no real crisis. Just Crys taking one line of a post out of context and
turning it into another reason to play the martyr. Pay it no heed.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancestors |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:20:41 PDT |
|
Salvete Probe et Murena! Plurimam salutem!
Thank you for your interesting posts on Moravia:
> > P.S. Dear, Moravius, I was very pleased to know, you
> > had got ancestors
> > from the lands of Boioi. As it is in fact not so far
> > away from here, I
> > would be very glad to hear something more about. By
> > the way the Morava
> > river (the norther one) is about 10 km from the city
> > I live in. The
> > "southern" Morava river is 600 km to the south from
> > here.
>
>Yes, there is a recent scholarly study of the "Great
>Moravia" kingdom of c. 500 AD (I believe) which
>locates it not in the current Czech Rep., but around
>the southern river. This has gained scholarly
>acceptance.
- To the best of my knowledge and belief, the Boii are first heard of in c.
400 BCE as occupying the Danube valley (the original Celtic heartland)
between the Marcomanni to the north and Noricum to the south, and to which
Boiohaemum (Bohemia) owes its name.
By c. 60 BCE one branch had migrated toward Dacia, where they disappeared.
But some 30,000 joined forces with the Helvetii and moved across Transalpine
Gaul, to be defeated by Iulius Caesar at Bibracte in 58 BCE. They were
permitted to settle by treaty on tribal ands in east central Gaul, and
presumably merged with the Aedui, who since 123 BCE had become 'friends and
allies of Rome'.
Shortly afterwards they defected to Vercingetorix, then defected back again.
In Imperial times, they became the first Gaulish tribe to have the honour of
being represented in the Senate.
1,000 years later one Freskin (presumably a mercenary), the first recorded
ancestor of the Clan Murray, turns up in Scotland and is granted lands
(Moray, where else?) by King David I (regnavit 1107-1153). Freskin's
grandson William is referred to as 'de Moravia'. Some historians say because
he is Earl of Moray, but others because he came from Moravia. I hold to the
latter opinion, because a) I like it, and b) Moray would surely have been
latinised as 'Moraia' not 'Moravia'.
The doings of Clan Murray are obviously off-topic and I only mention it here
because this is one of the lines I do definitely descend from. And from a
number of Gauls who may or may not have come from Bibracte and environs a
few centuries earlier. Now some would say that to claim descent from the
Boii because I'm a Murray is extremely suppostitious, and I agree. But then,
if Caesar Augustus can claim descent from the goddess Venus through Aeneas
(and his isn't the only tenuous, mythologised Roman pedigree by a long way),
then I reckon I can claim what I just did too. It might even be true. Not
that it would make me a different person, would it?
Valete bene,
Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: What is Constitutional? |
| From: |
Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:59:53 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes;
M. Papirius Justus wrote: A well made oratory from the Rostrum, to which I
add "Hear Him! Hear Him!"
In Amicus - Venator
Roma Res Publica Resurgans! Get on with Nova Roma, iteration II!
|
| Subject: |
OT a little further Re: Ancestors |
| From: |
Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:12:23 -0700 |
|
Ave og Hailsa Friend Vado;
Nicolaus Moravius wrote: An interesting post of the Boii and Moravia.
>
> The doings of Clan Murray are obviously off-topic and I only mention it here
> because this is one of the lines I do definitely descend from. And from a
> number of Gauls who may or may not have come from Bibracte and environs a
> few centuries earlier. Now some would say that to claim descent from the
> Boii because I'm a Murray is extremely suppostitious, and I agree. But then,
> if Caesar Augustus can claim descent from the goddess Venus through Aeneas
> (and his isn't the only tenuous, mythologised Roman pedigree by a long way),
> then I reckon I can claim what I just did too. It might even be true. Not
> that it would make me a different person, would it?
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Vado.
>
A side note to your pride in Clan Murray. One of the respected leaders in
American Asatru (the Religion to which I adhere) is Michael "Valgard"
Murray. He is quite proud of his descent from Clan Murray.
In Frith et Amicus - Venator AKA Piparskegg
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Re: What is Constitutional?] |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:14:13 -0700 |
|
> > (who was thinking the other day that what Nova Roma really needs as a
> > unifying force is a common enemy; is there some micronation we could
> > declare war on?)
> > ]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
> >
>
> ** sitting in tavern, having a beer and minding own business ***
>
> Why's everybody suddenly looking at ME?
>
> Vercingetorix
>
What a good idea.....lets go against the Gauls....they need a good lesson in Civilization!
What a unifying issue to bring all Nova Roman's together.... *g*
I wish I thought of it first....thanks for the idea our Resident Celt! :)
Sulla
|
| Subject: |
Titles |
| From: |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:10:51 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
It has been a day of great soul-searching for me. I have asked and
I have looked for signs and my Iuno has given them to me.
First my husband and I will be leaving the dishonorable Cornelia
gens. We will find respect within another gens. The Senator and
would be Counsul has no respect and even less sense. I am
ashamed I was misled into convincing my then friend and current
husband to join it.
Second, I was Priestess of Iuno BEFORE Nova Roma and I will
remain so long after it is gone away. And so IF the Dictatorship of
Nova Roma was legal, I resign the title but (of course) not the
Priesthood as it is not Nova Romas to give, but the gods
themselves.
Thirdly, if the Dictatorship was NOT legal, then I never had the title
in the first place, so what does it matter.
I continue to have Iunos blessing. To some of you I know I will be
Priestess of Iuno as I have always been (and am fortunate to have
you as friends). The support of my friends means much and the
spite of our enemies means nothing.
If this is Rome, no wonder She fell.
Amethystia Crystallina
|
| Subject: |
Re: [ViaTrames] Digest Number 19 |
| From: |
"Helena Equitia" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192165158072112061186101192165094048139046" >gretagoring@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:32:48 PDT |
|
I think the main list needs to see this.
If we look at "dishonorable" in the dictionary we shall see
Crys's face. Sulla has been there during Crys's pregnancy from
December 1998 forward and valued Crys as one of his best friends
in Nova Roma. Let's all look at what friendship means to Crys.
And this is our Priestess.
I can think of another offensive and prejudiced adjective and
noun for you Crys but I am not going to sink to your level.
I expect our childish moderator of the Via Trames to boot us off
the list but I want to get one final statement out. I am in love
with Lucius Cornelius Sulla and he has more integrity in his
pinkie finger than you do in your entire body!!!
Sorry blankety-blank!!!
Helena Equitia Ovidia
>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
>Sorry fat boy!! It's MY list and I'll do whatever I damn well please
>with it!! Keep em or boot em --- it's MY call!!
>
>Crys (not large, but DEFINiTELY in charge)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Titles |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:32:47 EDT |
|
In a message dated 8/23/99 11:11:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> writes:
<< I was Priestess of Iuno BEFORE Nova Roma and I will
remain so long after it is gone away. >>
If it is the death of Nova Roma you speak of, I sincerely regret having to
disagree with you but I see a bright future ahead for our fair Nova Roma.
Things have been difficult, no question. However, the vast majority of the
populace appears willing and certainly capable of carrying forth the ideals
and goals that established Nova Roma. I am quite proud of the way so many
here have functioned and persevered in the face of hardship....and this
speaks volumes to me of strength, commitment and courage.
Those of us who share these values and a vision of a strong and vibrant Nova
Roma shall see many accomplishments in the future, of this I am certain.
Those who choose, for whatever reason, to retreat from the long uphill climb
that faces us....well, I wish you the blessings of the Gods and would like to
think you will keep a good thought, if not a flame lit, for Nova Roma as we
surge ahead.
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
ATTN: EDICT FOR THE COMITIA CENTURIATIA |
| From: |
Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:51:01 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete Cives Novae Romae!
The auspices having been taken and the omens being good, I hereby announce
that the Comitia Centuriata will be convened three days from now, at 2300
(11:00 PM) on Thursday, August 26, 1999, to vote on the following items:
1. Filling the vacant seat of consul.
Candidates:
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
2. To vote on the following law:
Lex Iunia de Magistratuum Aetate
This law shall regulate the minimum age a person may hold specific
magistracies.
I. No person may assume the office of censor or consul until he or she
has reached the age of 30.
II. No person may assume the office of praetor or tribune of the plebs
until he or she has reached the age of 25.
III. No person may assume the office of quaestor, aedile, or be
appointed to the position of provincial governor, until he or she has
reached the age of 21.
IV. Any person holding one of the aforementioned positions at the time
of the passage of this law shall be exempt from its provisions for the
remainder of his or her current term.
V. An exemption to this law may be granted to a person by
the approval of both censors and a senatus consultum approved by a two
thirds majority vote.
3. To vote on the following law:
Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum
This law shall regulate the amount of times a person may hold the office
of consul during a specified time period.
I. No person shall hold the office of consul for two years
consecutively, or in any five year period, hold the office of consul more
than twice.
*End of items to be voted on.*
In Service to Rome,
Decius Iunius Palladius,
Consul of Nova Roma
|
| Subject: |
Re: Titles |
| From: |
Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:16:16 -0700 (PDT) |
|
How about forming your own.
Gaius Iunius Germanus
--- Don an--------ys Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> wrote:
> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete,
>
> It has been a day of great soul-searching for me. I
> have asked and
> I have looked for signs and my Iuno has given them
> to me.
>
> First my husband and I will be leaving the
> dishonorable Cornelia
> gens. We will find respect within another gens.
> The Senator and
> would be Counsul has no respect and even less sense.
> I am
> ashamed I was misled into convincing my then friend
> and current
> husband to join it.
>
> Second, I was Priestess of Iuno BEFORE Nova Roma and
> I will
> remain so long after it is gone away. And so IF the
> Dictatorship of
> Nova Roma was legal, I resign the title but (of
> course) not the
> Priesthood as it is not Nova Romas to give, but the
> gods
> themselves.
>
> Thirdly, if the Dictatorship was NOT legal, then I
> never had the title
> in the first place, so what does it matter.
>
> I continue to have Iunos blessing. To some of you I
> know I will be
> Priestess of Iuno as I have always been (and am
> fortunate to have
> you as friends). The support of my friends means
> much and the
> spite of our enemies means nothing.
>
> If this is Rome, no wonder She fell.
>
> Amethystia Crystallina
>
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