Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Tribes was Re: Collegium Pontificum
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:05:08 -0400

Salve,

> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Caie Iuni et alii
>
> I just checked it. The tribal assignments are there as numbers, rather
than
> names.

My bad. I forgot to run the formula to convert the numbers to names before I
posted it. I'll correct it next time it gets updated. Apologies.

Vale,

Germanicus


Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:07:45 -0400

Salve,

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Was anyone else irritated at having been forced to cast votes for two
> unopposed candidates in order to be allowed to also vote on the proposed
> law that was on the same ballot?

Considering that the vote itself is a foregone conclusion, I'm wondering at
what solution you are proposing. Do you want to be able _not_ to vote for
the only candidate, do you want to be able to vote _against_ the only
candidate (a vote for "none of the above"), or do you want the candidate not
to even be listed on the ballot, because it _is_ a foregone conclusion?

> My personal preference would be to have the option of selecting "no vote"
> if there's only one name in the pull-down menu of candidates on a
> multi-issue ballot.

When there's one candidate, what does it matter how many votes are "for"
that candidate? One's enough. Does it really bother you sooooo much to have
to have your vote counted in Sulla's column? It's not like the votes will be
tallied. He won. If he won because 1 person voted, or 300 people voted, what
does it matter? He won.

> This should not be interpreted as a slap at either of the two men
> standing for offices. I just don't like being denied to the option of not
> voting for some individual candidate.

Since it bothers you so much, I will make sure to allow a blank-vote-option
when it comes time for the next election and/or vote. But I'd ask everyone
to just lighten up; people seem to be taking offense at things just for the
sake of doing so. It ain't helping; let's all just try to get along...

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus


Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:11:55 EDT

Salve Lucius Cornelius,

No, I'm sorry, but you missed my point entirely. I am not objecting to
the election of a second Consul, nor am I objecting to the candidate
standing for it. My objection is to not having the option to vote at all
unless I voted for both unopposed candidates.

In all elections, I make it a practice not to cast a vote for a candidate
who is unopposed, unless I want to simply cast a vote of approval.

In this particular election, to have followed that principle, I would
have to have been allowed to vote on the law that was proposed without
voting for either of the two unopposed political candidates.

Instead, if I was to be allowed to vote either for or against the
proposed law, I was forced to also register a vote for both candidates on
the ballot. In essence, it was "either vote for both of these men or you
cannot vote on the proposed law."

Thus I was forced to register a vote for both of you, whether I wanted to
or not, in order to be allowed to cast a vote for or against the law.

It is that forced vote to which I object. There should have been an
option to not check off the candidates' names unless one actually wanted
to vote for them. I'm sure it was only a programming oversight and not a
sinister plot to force citizens to vote for you.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Salve L. Sergius et all....but...we need to have a Consul to serve with our
>existing Consul. The people had the opportunity to throw up another
>candidate. Shall we compare Decius Iunius Palladius to Gn. Pomepieus
>Magnus??? in having a Consul without a Colleague? Please.....I honorably
>disagree with your opinion....The State requires 2 Consuls....the State
>shall have 2 Consuls. the same with the Plebian Aedile. The People have
>the right to have as many candidates as they chose to run. That is the
>voice of Republicanism in my humble opinion.
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Senator

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:19:35 EDT

Salve Flavius Vedius,

Thank you for agreeing to address my complaint. I'm sorry if it sounded
as if I was taking offense at something. I was merely stating my
preference in options for voting. No rancor was intended.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >
>Salve,
>
>> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>>
>> Salvete omnes,
>>
>> Was anyone else irritated at having been forced to cast votes for two
>> unopposed candidates in order to be allowed to also vote on the proposed
>> law that was on the same ballot?
>
>Considering that the vote itself is a foregone conclusion, I'm wondering at
>what solution you are proposing. Do you want to be able _not_ to vote for
>the only candidate, do you want to be able to vote _against_ the only
>candidate (a vote for "none of the above"), or do you want the candidate not
>to even be listed on the ballot, because it _is_ a foregone conclusion?
>
>> My personal preference would be to have the option of selecting "no vote"
>> if there's only one name in the pull-down menu of candidates on a
>> multi-issue ballot.
>
>When there's one candidate, what does it matter how many votes are "for"
>that candidate? One's enough. Does it really bother you sooooo much to have
>to have your vote counted in Sulla's column? It's not like the votes will be
>tallied. He won. If he won because 1 person voted, or 300 people voted, what
>does it matter? He won.
>
>> This should not be interpreted as a slap at either of the two men
>> standing for offices. I just don't like being denied to the option of not
>> voting for some individual candidate.
>
>Since it bothers you so much, I will make sure to allow a blank-vote-option
>when it comes time for the next election and/or vote. But I'd ask everyone
>to just lighten up; people seem to be taking offense at things just for the
>sake of doing so. It ain't helping; let's all just try to get along...
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Re: Collegium Pontificum
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:59:33 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/1999 8:20:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

Salve Gaius Marius Merullus!
I forgot to mention that not only was I real thirsty, but I spent the last of
my money buying that drink. Alas, no return of the 7-11 for me.

Vale
Q Fabius.


Subject:	Re: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:40:21 -0400

Salve,

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Despite all the rest of the whys and whens and whos you offer, I think
> we're in agreement now on the basic facts. We could have a public poll to
> determine how many here think that Flavius Vedius would have been
> appointed Dictator and would have set up the tribes and centuries had not
> Lucius Equitius pushed the issue to the breaking point, BUT I can't
> believe that there's a single Roman here who could honestly claim to
> think it would have happened that way. So why bother?

Obviously-- to incite discord, and continue the rancor which so many on this
list find so fun (and useful)! Why else are you pushing your absurd
intepretation of events? By your logic, we should be praising Jefferson
Davis for being responsible for integration. After all, if he hadn't waged
the Civil War, slavery wouldn't have been abolished, and American blacks
would never have been emancipated.

> So can we not agree on this summary? -- That as a result of a crisis
> created in response to Lucius Equitius pushing the issue of the tribes
> and centuries, Flavius Vedius was appointed Dictator, wrote a new
> Constitution, and formed the tribes and centuries needed to make proper
> elections possible in the future.

If you really want to credit the creation of a crisis that was leading
headlong to the dissolution of Nova Roma as an entity, I'll agree. But is
that something to brag about? The appointment of a dictator was (quite
literally) the last gasp short of just scrapping everything. The choice
was-- dictator or no Nova Roma at all. And Cincinnatus led us to that point.
Oh, _thanks_...

> If so, then the only thing left to argue about is how much credit each of
> the two men deserves for Nova Roma having reached a solution to its
> governmental paralysis. I think that is best left to the individual

I cannot let your blatant attempt to save face for Cincinnatus go
unanswered. Cincinnatus was trying to usurp the very Constitution (as it
then stood) by his actions. To assign any credit for our progress to him is
the same as assigning credit to Adolf Hitler for the creation of Israel.
It's tortured, it's surreal, and it's contrary to common sense.

> And if we can't agree on the above, then I really don't give a rat's
> podex about arguing it any more anyway, so let's just move on.

That, I can agree with. Moving on...

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus


Subject:	Re: Have You Seen Me?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:49:05 -0500

On 26 Aug 99, at 22:20, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> Amethysta Iunia Crystallina

Which address? The one I recieve all NR email at is
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>

Amethystia Crystallina


Subject:	Re: Have You Seen Me?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:49:44 -0500


Subject:	Re: Have You Seen Me?
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:49:44 -0500


Subject:	Re: Re: A needed division
From:	Rahnette@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:35:54 EDT

Good Day.

Apparently we observers are about to removed from this list. If I could be
heard.
I have no interest in the Roman Religion, but I do in the politics. (That
was my major at Mawr.) I think that I have been given a huge insight into
Roman politics the way it may have been, the start and the stop of political
organs, the taskfinding and the solutions. I understand you people are using
the Roman way to solve your problems and so far the results are marvelous.
We are seeing a living, breathing Rome slowly coming into existence against
all the odds. And even though you fight and attack each other every step of
the way - don't you understand that you are human? That all of you have in
your heart a little different idea on how the entity of Nova Roma should be
run? There lies the seeds of your conflict.
But that is healthy! All political and religious organizations go through
this. I see it every day in Washington, DC. And we haven't collapsed yet.
Neither will Nova Roma as long as you all have such dedication. Because it's
that caring that will keep your dream alive.
For you that seem to easy bothered by things said on this list, listen to
what the Aedile and the Praetor are saying. If you are Roman, expect
conflict. As they astutely pointed out, Rome's history was conceived,
birthed and raised in conflict. Why should you N. Romans be any different?
While these may be legends, why was it so important for the nation you are
emulating to have these legends as part of their makeup? Why? I'd hazard a
guess. To make the Romans tough! And so you will have to for your continued
survival.
I hope you will continue to allow non NR members as observers on this list.
Sometimes you just need an outsider's opinion to get you to realize what a
wonderful thing you are attempting to do here. Thanks for reading this.
Roman poly sci observer.
Rosalind Specter


Subject:	Another Mistaken Identity
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:03:36 PDT

Salvete, Quiritibus! Scripsit amicus meus Venator:

>If I may, this part of the post (plus the surrounding commentary) by
>Quintus
>Fabius Maximus speaks to a point I have been making for some time in mine
>own Faith
>Community, and a few times herein.
>
>There has been for some little while a re-awakening occuring, a return to
>the Holy Ones of our pre-Christian ancestors. The European,
>non-Mediterranean re-construction community is quite large. They have gone
>through many of the struggles we seem to be having here. (And yes, I do
>term myself a Roman to them, or rather Duo-Spiritus, both Roman and
>Asatruar.)

- not the main point I want to make here, but in passing I'd like to express
my gratitude (as I did to others in my last post to this list)
for putting this whole pagan reconstructionist issue in a global context. We
in Nova Roma are part of a much bigger development, and it's sometimes easy
to lose sight of that. Working with reconstructionists of other paths
(mostly Heathen and Druidic in my case) does help reinforce to one the fact
that something mighty is stirring in the world's affairs, and we have the
honour to be among the first to help its development. However, the main
point I wanted to make...

>As a side note: friendship with honorable, devout Christians such as Lucius
>Marius Fimbria, Marcus Minucius Audens and Nicolaus Moravius Vado are
>becoming less uncommon.

- supra solum volvo ridens magna voce!!! (No offence to anyone): Venator,
whatever gave you the idea I was a Christian, let alone a good one?!

I did train to be a priest once (but realised the Church wasn't the path I
was meant to take), and I have been known to post occasionally on Church
history (the Catholic interface with Roman religio fascinates me), but I've
been a believing practitioner of the Religio Romana, publicly as well as
privately, for some years now :-)

Valete bene in pace deorum,

N. Moravius Vado.


Subject:	Re: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:11:38 EDT

Salve Helena Equitia,

Yes, indeed. I was sorely tempted to reply just one more time. But then I
realized that the multiple historical misinterpretations and glaring
logical absurdities in that post refute his position better than I ever
could, so just let it be. Enough. It's history.

BTW, does anyone here realize that had it not been for General Benedict
Arnold, the American rebels would never have been able to continue their
revolt long enough for Britain to tire of it and let them go? He saved
their bacon for them at the battle of Saratoga, defeating a major British
force that would otherwise probably have put their little insurrection to
an end. He was actually a major hero of the American Revolution, but was
so mistreated by colonial politicians that he eventually got too
disgusted and resentful to continue.

So it goes...

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: "Helena Equitia" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192165158072112061186101192165094048139046" >gretagoring@--------</a>
>
>

>>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >>
>>Salve,
>>
>> > From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>>
>>I cannot let your blatant attempt to save face for Cincinnatus go
>>unanswered. Cincinnatus was trying to usurp the very Constitution (as it
>>then stood) by his actions. To assign any credit for our >progress to him
>>is the same as assigning credit to Adolf Hitler for the creation of Israel.
>>It's tortured, it's surreal, and it's >contrary to common sense.
>
>I think it is your analogy that is contrary to common sense, etc.
>Cincinnatus=Hitler??? Excuse me, but I am rolling my eyes...
>
>-Helena Equitia

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:11:35 EDT

Salve Lucius Cornelius,

If no choice of candidates is offered, then what difference does it make
whether one votes or not? Is not the whole purpose of voting to indicate
one's preference, given a choice?

If there is no choice, then a vote is just an empty formality.

Under those circumstances, the only reason to cast a vote would be to
indicate support for the person who has already won by default. But in
this election, even that was not possible. There was no option to
withhold one's vote from either candidate unless one chose to not
participate at all, which would have truly been irresponsible since there
was a genuine issue to be decided in the Lex that was proposed.

So, sadly, you cannot realistically interpret any of the votes you
received as a vote of confidence in your ability to fill the role of
Consul, simply because nobody who wanted to participate in the election
had any choice BUT to cast their vote for you. If I were in your shoes, I
wouldn't like that and I would want it changed. But suit yourself.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Well again...my question would be, as a citizen of Nova Roma, why would you
>be more concerned with a law..than with electing duly elected officials for
>Nova Roma, remember it is these officials who will draft more laws that you
>will need to vote on? I would think that all votes would have been just as
>vital, and to not vote on an issue....regardless if it is a lex or a
>magistrate would be well, for lack of a better word, irresponsible? But
>that is just my opinion as someone who has a Degree in Political Science.
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Senator

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	Re: Repost of Ianus question
From:	Curtia Cornelius curtiacornelius@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:13:56 -0700 (PDT)

I do not often reply to the posts on this list, but here is some
practival help for the person trying to access the URL in the message
below.

You cannot "click" the URL successfully. It will not act as a link
because it has wrapped around to another line. You must copy and
paste, and you must copy and paste twice.

First, copy the line which begins "<a href="http://" target="_top" >http://</a> and ends "DG16.p7" and
paste it into your address window. DO NOT SEND THIS ADDRESS it is
incomplete. Go back to the URL in the message. On the line below the
line which seems to be a link you will find the following:
"2&object=312" Add that to the end of the address. I did not have luck
copying the whole thing at one time. My computer did not bring the
second line along. I had to copy/paste twice.

Good luck

Curtia Cornelius

--- JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> wrote:
> From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
>
>
>
> --- "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
> wrote:
> > From: "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
> >
> > At 03:07 PM 28/08/1999 -0700, you wrote:
> > This URL is not working. Are you sure its the
> right
> > one?
> >
> > Respondeo:
> >
> > Yes, it is the right one, here it is again:
> >
> >
>
<a href="http://efts.lib.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/eos/eos_page.pl?DPI=100&callnum=DG16.P7" target="_top" >http://efts.lib.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/eos/eos_page.pl?DPI=100&callnum=DG16.P7</a>
> > 2&object=312
> >
> > And again (THIS IS IMPORTANT), please note that
> your
> > mail program (or mine)
> > will likely cut part of that off and it will spill
> > onto the next line (in
> > the previous post, e.g., the 2&object=312 part
> > spilled over). In most
> > browsers, that means you'll have to cut and paste
> > that bit on.
>
> Well, I'm running Netscape, and this is what came up
> when I clicked on the link you provided:
>
> "ERROR: Page Identifier NOT FOUND
>
> DPI=100&callnum=DG16.P7
> object=
> ident=
>
>
> Return to DG16.P7 Title Page "
>
>
> Lucius Licinius Varro Murena
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
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> at ONElist
> Join our community member news update at
> <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter5" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter5</a>
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>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>


Subject:	Re: A needed division
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:42:56 -0500 (CDT)

Salve, peregrina, et salvete omnes...

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=085166214185056134050038203140129208071" >R--------tte@--------</--------;
>
>Good Day.
>
>Apparently we observers are about to removed from this list.

Not at all, dear guest! True enough, there's been some sentiment in
that direction...but I believe most of that has been directed at former
Citizens who remain on the List long after their professed interest in
Nova Roma has ended. The concern is that such individuals might want
to cause trouble for us someday. To date, however, we have not had
this problem; the recent flap about an ex-Citizen's posting was in
response to something that appeared on another List entirely!

We have occasionally debated closing the List to non-Citizens, but this
suggestion has always been defeated precisely because we desire to
remain open to prospective Citizens and interested observers. I
personally value independent perspectives when they are to be had; a
few more such might have kept us out of various kinds of trouble... I
would certainly encourage yourself and other 'indies' to sound off when
we're doing something massively-obtuse, or when we're doing something
resoundingly-awesome! Great little things go on every day, for the
most part unheralded because, in the absence of gladiatorial combats,
we seem to have adopted feudin' and fightin' as our micronational
pastime. >({|;-)

>We are seeing a living, breathing Rome slowly coming into existence
>against all the odds.

How easily we forget this, if not frequently reminded! And there are
as many reasons to check out Nova Roma as there are aspects of Roman
society and culture. I'm a historical cultural anthropologist and
military reenactor, myself; also a storyteller of various kinds in
various settings (I write, I narrate, I roleplay...); and my life for
the last eight years has been about the revival of Roman culture to the
extent possible in the modern era. How thrilled I was to find I had
company on the journey! And yet...how easily I have allowed myself to
get swallowed up in all the fuss-making, so that the excitement is
forgotten, leaving nothing but the drudgery of 'If it ain't one thing,
it's another...'!

>I hope you will continue to allow non NR members as observers on this
>list. Sometimes you just need an outsider's opinion to get you to
>realize what a wonderful thing you are attempting to do here.

No kidding! Your post was just the breath of fresh air I needed today.
Doubtless others have benefited from it as well. I wouldn't have
missed it for the world, and hope to see many more such; perspective is
such a difficult thing to get from inside the birth-canal...!

>Thanks for reading this.

My sincerest thanks to you for writing it.

Yours under the Eagles,
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria, Curator Sermonem |>[SPQR]<|
mka M�ria Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'


Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:40:10 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] forced votes

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Salve Lucius Cornelius,
>
> If no choice of candidates is offered, then what difference does it make
> whether one votes or not? Is not the whole purpose of voting to indicate
> one's preference, given a choice?
>
> If there is no choice, then a vote is just an empty formality.
>
> Under those circumstances, the only reason to cast a vote would be to
> indicate support for the person who has already won by default. But in
> this election, even that was not possible. There was no option to
> withhold one's vote from either candidate unless one chose to not
> participate at all, which would have truly been irresponsible since there
> was a genuine issue to be decided in the Lex that was proposed.
>
> So, sadly, you cannot realistically interpret any of the votes you
> received as a vote of confidence in your ability to fill the role of
> Consul, simply because nobody who wanted to participate in the election
> had any choice BUT to cast their vote for you. If I were in your shoes, I
> wouldn't like that and I would want it changed. But suit yourself.

Well as someone who studied Political Science for 4 years on college and got
a Degree in it...I dont really concern myself over votes of confidence.
(Remember you are speaking to the person who got Dex and Rusticus to run for
Consul, just based on spindoctoring, during the first election primarly to
spicen up the first race for Consul.) And, as Machiavelli pointed out in
the Prince...is it better to be feared or loved...well....all I care about
is getting elected, and as Germanicus pointed out, I have already won.
Having people's love well...that as, Machiavelli pointed out can
change....at times literally overnite. Once I am in office I will acquit
myself of my duty regardless if the people love or hate me. Because in my
mind I will acquit myself and my actions honorably and with integrity.
History is decided long after we are done......and History will be the judge
of our actions...not the the present vote of confidence by the People. As I
said before, the People could have brought up another candidate to run
against me. Even L. Equitius could have run against me..but no one did.
Votes of Confidences's besides, IMHO are irreleveant unless there is a way
you can remove the subject person in power once they have been given power.
Also they carry about as much weight, as the polls you see on CNN during
political races.

All of these things about no one running out of protest for L. Equitius are
well.....bunk. There was nothing stopping anyone from running for office.
I have chosen to run for Consul because, quite simply, I want to help
restore the confidence of the People in the government of Nova Roma. By not
offering yourselves as a candidate, what voice is made? That you are
protesting the treatement of Equitius? or for some other reason?
Well....for whateever reason....no one became a candidate except for
me....and well I went about it first by asking the people who I trust in
Nova Roma, (Palladius, Germancius, Q. Fabius, Caesar and Helena Equitia) got
their opinion and then I elected to run for office, because I feel that I
will do a good job for Nova Roma. Thats why I ran. To serve the People.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator


Subject:	Subject: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:30:10 -0400

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:34:33 EDT
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
Subject: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes

Salvete, Quirites

Cassius;
I'm afraid that the other, unmentioned facts of the Tribes and Centuries
problems hardly leave Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus a hero...

He didn't mention them because they aren't facts.

1. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was informed by the Censors in January of this
year that they could not get to the job within a reasonable amount of time.
They made a request that the task be brought before the Senate and/or given
over to a Committee.

The Censores never asked the Senate to do the Tribes. Show the transcript. IF this was the case WHY didn't Palladius bring it to the Senate?? He was Censor AND Consul!!!

2. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus instead took on the job himself. He did not
give the situation over to the Senate, nor did he call any sort of Committee
to work on the Tribes and Centuries.

I said I would do it BUT I GOT NO INFORMATION. Cassius was simply too busy to do the work because he was moving his family business and building a new home and moving, he did not want to give up the position but NOVA ROMA was simply not a priority to him at the time. Cassius never sent me a single new citizen entry Until the week before Roman Days. As for commitees, what ever happened to the "Law committee"??? Or the Financial Committee?? Many people are simply more interested in sharing their opinion than actually doing anything.

3. Due to some of the same reasons why the Censors were having a problem,
Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was unable to form the Tribes and Centuries
*either*.

Like I said before I never got a list until APRIL and that list was at least 4 (FOUR) Months out of date.

4. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus then sat on the situation for four whole
months, doing nothing. He did not do the Tribes and Centuries as he promised.

L Equitius: IF this were true WHY didn't you speak up about it?? Cause this is BULL. You didn't give me the information, and you were telling me every time I asked for the list that Nova Roma was getting new citizens all the time. delay after delay people finally got fed up but I don't own the website.

Cassius:
Nor did he at any time turn the situation over to the Senate or appoint some
sort of Committee as the Censors had requested. Instead he allowed the
situation to fester... with the Citizens becoming more enraged by the day.

Firstly, I wasn't Censor, so I couldn't turn it over to the Senate or some committee. I was not in possession of a current list nor was I receiving ANYTHING in the way of updates from the Censores until the WEEK before Roman Days!

5. The Censors, after working some months to correct the basic difficulties
to forming the Tribes and Centuries, (online Citizenship application
problems, Citizen list problems, etc.) were finally able to do the job. They
took back the project from Cincinnatus since he had done nothing from
February till May of this year.

ONCE Again I did not have a list to work with. Cassius, you were telling me that Nova Roma was getting new citizens all the time. How many time did you tell me that you had a backlog of application to be processed?? At least half a dozen or more. Cassius was simply too busy with personal responsibilities (I don't begrudge anyone this) to do the work but he would not forward the information or resign the position (until his buddy Germanicus was dictator).

6. While the process of the assigning the Tribes and Centuries was being
done, Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus began Impeachment proceedings against the
Censors, for not doing the job.

I never began anything. But I should have. Gee,but that would not have mattered Because I don't own Nova Roma.

7. The Social Wars ensued.

No, you just own the website and you did whatever you wanted regardless.

8. Flavius Vedius Germanicus took up the Censor position vacated by Marcus
Cassius Julianus during the Dictatorship. He decided to rework the done by
the Censors already, and came up with a new set of assignments. Since during
the Dictatorship no one was able to interfere with the process actually
*being* completed, the job was finished. Germanicus did a better job at it
too, since he had a far better grasp of the Tribes and Centuries than either
myself of Decius Iunius Palladius. Valete, Marcus Cassius Julianus

So why in the hell were you guys Censores in the first place???

In a message dated 8/28/99 1:58:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:
<<
The facts (as I see them) are:

That you were a founder, a Consul, and a Censor for the first year of
Nova Roma, and (for whatever reason) you failed to set up the tribes and
centuries during the year that it was your duty to do so;

That your successors in the office of Censor also failed to carry out
that duty during their watches;

That all of you failed to respond to requests, pleas, demands, and
complaints from a wide variety of magistrates and common citizens who
recognized that the carrying out of this task was essential to even
having a Nova Roma;

That it was ONLY after Lucius Equitius Cinncinatus sought to find a way
to FORCE your friend to do his duty, that the group of you were moved to
take actions that eventually led to you straightening out (we hope) the
mess in which you originally left Nova Roman government.

Therefore, in mea sentatio, while you certainly deserve credit for doing
the job (albeit so belatedly that the very existence of the State was
endangered by your negligence), Cinncinatus deserves the thanks of all of
Nova Roma for motivating you to finally do the job.

L Equitius; This all sounds very plausible and reasonable, doesn't it? For those of us who have been citizens this past year and a half, this pretty well sums the situation up.

Without Cinncinatus' actions, there would have been no dictatorship, I regret that this opinion seems to make me persona non grata in your eyes, but truth and
honesty take priority with me.
>>

Yes, indeed. Cassius insists that I should have done it because I said I would. Well in reply I maintain that until April I did not receive any citizen information. This list was at leat 4 months old and at this time there were often pleas from prospective citizens as to their citizenship status (from this list of 240 odd citizens about 40 were incomplete entries ie, no Roman name, gens, address etc.). When I did get it this list I started to work with it. I even upon request from Provincial Praetores (Praetor Californiae C Aelius and Praetrix M Iucundia Flavia) provided them with the information of those citizen within their Provincia. I did form time to time get an additional citizen from Palladius of one of the applications that were overdue; however, It was not until early June that I began to receive anything from Cassius. Then the weekend of Roma Days (June 11-13) Cassius announced that he and Palladius would have the Tribes done the week of his return home. Which didn't happen.

As for the rest,
Germanicus; I cannot let your blatant attempt to save face for Cincinnatus go
unanswered. Cincinnatus was trying to usurp the very Constitution (as it
then stood) by his actions.

L Equitius; Once and for all I would like to see just which part of the Constitution I was "upsurp"ing??? Yes, I suppose if you say it enough times peole will believe it! JUST Which law did I break??? HOW was I upsurping anything??? What a load of BS. You guys own the site, we're just visitors.

To assign any credit for our progress to him is
the same as assigning credit to Adolf Hitler for the creation of Israel.
It's tortured, it's surreal, and it's contrary to common sense.

L Equitius; What else could I do, appoint myself Censor?? Dictator? Then appoint a Senate and magistrates. Yep, worked for you. But I don't own the website.

> And if we can't agree on the above, then I really don't give a rat's
> podex about arguing it any more anyway, so let's just move on.

That, I can agree with. Moving on...
Vale,Flavius Vedius Germanicus

When will the Bylaws and members of the board of directors of Nova Roma Inc. be posted publicly?
I'm still waiting to see just which law I broke. Oh, is the one "don't ask people to do their JOB", or is it, I didn't do it for them even when they were not providing the necessary information?

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	Re: Subject: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:42:27 -0700

> 2. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus instead took on the job himself. He did not
> give the situation over to the Senate, nor did he call any sort of
Committee
> to work on the Tribes and Centuries.
>
> I said I would do it BUT I GOT NO INFORMATION. Cassius was simply too busy
to do the work because he was moving his family business and building a new
home and moving, he did not want to give up the position but NOVA ROMA was
simply not a priority to him at the time. Cassius never sent me a single new
citizen entry Until the week before Roman Days. As for commitees, what ever
happened to the "Law committee"??? Or the Financial Committee?? Many people
are simply more interested in sharing their opinion than actually doing
anything.

As per the law committee.....It was in the Venue of the Senators....the Old
Senators. It was originally headed by F. Claudia....then she had alot to
do.....and Av. Tullius Calladius headed the Law Committee....we had 2
meetings....with him and Q. Fabius Maximus....I asked him if he was going to
have other meetings he said he would....but never scheduled them....and
well....it was left in limbo. And, no one took over the meeting.... With me
being just a Praetor Urbanus who wasn't in the Senate....I was not in a
position to supervise or moderate such a committee.....As it was the in the
Venue of the Old Senate. That is what happened to the Law Committee....

L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator


Subject:	Re: Re: A needed division
From:	"M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:07:25 -0400

Salvete,

A suggestion in regards to citizens:

We have a position for a list moderator (I forget what you call it here);
why not recreate the position of praetor peregrinus and have as one of
their duties clicking the 'moderate' box at onelist and observing the
non-citizens' behaviour ... I suspect that 99.999% of the time no
moderation would be needed, but it would prevent disputes/misunderstandings
such as was mentioned under this rubric.

MPJ
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[


Subject:	Re: Another Mistaken Identity
From:	Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:45:50 -0700

Salve Vado et Avete Omnes,

Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
>
> Salvete, Quiritibus! Scripsit amicus meus Venator:
>
> - not the main point I want to make here, but in passing I'd like to express
> my gratitude (as I did to others in my last post to this list)
> for putting this whole pagan reconstructionist issue in a global context. We
> in Nova Roma are part of a much bigger development, and it's sometimes easy
> to lose sight of that. Working with reconstructionists of other paths
> (mostly Heathen and Druidic in my case) does help reinforce to one the fact
> that something mighty is stirring in the world's affairs, and we have the
> honour to be among the first to help its development. However, the main
> point I wanted to make...
>
Venii: This realization of the broad scope of the Re-Awakening is why I
visit many Pagan and Heathen groups. We are part of something mighty. The
Olympians and their cousins are hearing the voices of their human children
again, all across the globe.
>
> - supra solum volvo ridens magna voce!!! (No offence to anyone): Venator,
> whatever gave you the idea I was a Christian, let alone a good one?!
>
Venii: Probably reading your posts late at night. My impression has been
that you are (aren't apparantly) a practicing Eastern Orthodox Christian.
Mistaken identity it is indeed!
>
> I did train to be a priest once (but realised the Church wasn't the path I
> was meant to take), and I have been known to post occasionally on Church
> history (the Catholic interface with Roman religio fascinates me), but I've
> been a believing practitioner of the Religio Romana, publicly as well as
> privately, for some years now :-)
>
> Valete bene in pace deorum,
>
> N. Moravius Vado.
>

And I shall continue to enjoy the information I see you post herein,
imperfect understanding (on my part) and all.

Vertu saell in frith - Piparskegg (Venator)


Subject:	Praedicatio Mariae Gentis
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:38:14 -0400

Salvete Cives

Factus sum hodie paterfamilias Mariae gentis Gravitatem officiorum huius
status sentio et pro familia et nationi et deis Me toto semper omnia pro
omnibus perficere conar Gratias ago Minervae et Fortunae et aliis deis
Romae pro eorum ope mei et adhuc ferendi et eos meminero in precibus rei
publicae et gentis gratia

Today I became paterfamilias of gens Maria. I am very aware of the
responsibilities of this position before my gens, this nation and the gods.
I shall give it all that I have to fulfill all those responsibilites. I
thank Minerva, Fortuna and the other gods and goddesses of Roma for their
support in bringing me to this point, and I shall remember them in my
prayers on behalf of the Republic and my gens.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


Subject:	Re: Praedicatio Mariae Gentis
From:
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:54:56 -0700

Salve C. Marius et civies.

Congrats on your appoint you are an asset to your Gens and I know you will
be extremely successful in the role as Paterfamilias! Good luck!

Vale.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Marius Merullus <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 6:38 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Praedicatio Mariae Gentis

> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Cives
>
> Factus sum hodie paterfamilias Mariae gentis Gravitatem officiorum huius
> status sentio et pro familia et nationi et deis Me toto semper omnia pro
> omnibus perficere conar Gratias ago Minervae et Fortunae et aliis deis
> Romae pro eorum ope mei et adhuc ferendi et eos meminero in precibus rei
> publicae et gentis gratia
>
> Today I became paterfamilias of gens Maria. I am very aware of the
> responsibilities of this position before my gens, this nation and the
gods.
> I shall give it all that I have to fulfill all those responsibilites. I
> thank Minerva, Fortuna and the other gods and goddesses of Roma for their
> support in bringing me to this point, and I shall remember them in my
> prayers on behalf of the Republic and my gens.
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


Subject:	Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:14:36 EDT

Salvete,

I heartily encourage most Citizens to delete this continuing thread. Even
though I'm more than happy to debate with Cincinnatus and his supporters
about it until the end of time if necessary... this isn't doing anyone any
good. It's all over and done with at this point. :P

That being said:

In a m--------g--------t--------/29/99 7:29:04 PM East--------Daylight Tim--------lt;a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
writes:

> Cassius;
> I'm afraid that the other, unmentioned facts of the Tribes and Centuries
problems hardly leave Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus a hero...

Cincinnatus:
> He didn't mention them because they aren't facts.

Cassius:
Unfortunately, they are. I posted that you shared guilt just as everyone else
did. Even your most ardent supporter has acknowledged this. To quote from the
reply to my posting from L. Sergius Aust.:

"The only new _facts_ you would add are that Lucius Equitius also had
offered to form the tribes & centuries, and that he should be added to
the list of those who failed at this task. That seems irrefutable."

>Cassius:
> 1. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was informed by the Censors in January of
this
> year that they could not get to the job within a reasonable amount of time.
> They made a request that the task be brought before the Senate and/or given
>over to a Committee.

Cincinnatus:
The Censores never asked the Senate to do the Tribes. Show the transcript.
IF this was the case WHY didn't Palladius bring it to the Senate?? He was
Censor AND Consul!!!

Cassius:
You were all upset about the Tribes. As Censor I came to you and said I
couldn't do them in a timely manner, and that if you wanted them done you
should bring it to the Senate or form a Committee to do them. You said you'd
do them yourself. I suppose I should have instantly thought you were lying,
and gone past you and directly to the Senate anyway? I believed there was no
reason to bring it further for quite some time.

>Cassius:
>2. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus instead took on the job himself. He did not
>give the situation over to the Senate, nor did he call any sort of
Committee
> to work on the Tribes and Centuries.

Cincinnatus:
I said I would do it BUT I GOT NO INFORMATION. Cassius was simply too busy
to do the work because he was moving his family business and building a new
home and moving, he did not want to give up the position but NOVA ROMA was
simply not a priority to him at the time. Cassius never sent me a single new
citizen entry Until the week before Roman Days.

Cassius:
What you got was a copy of the Citizen's list that only had people up to
December. The problem with the list involving data being lost by Flavia
Iucunda meant that you couldn't get the January and February new Citizens.
You refused to even create a *system* to plug people in to until you had a
completely up-to-date list. We couldn't get you one since two months of
people had to be recovered first. We've already gone through this before
publicly.

Cincinnatus:
>As for commitees, what ever happened to the "Law committee"??? Or the
Financial Committee?? Many people are simply more interested in sharing their
opinion than actually doing anything.

Cassius:
They ended up being superseded, at least temporarily. We now have laws, and
the finances are being done as we speak I believe. No reason to blame the
Citizens when the government itself wasn't doing anything.

> Cassius:
>3. Due to some of the same reasons why the Censors were having a problem,
>Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was unable to form the Tribes and Centuries
>*either*.

Cincinnatus:
> Like I said before I never got a list until APRIL and that list was at
least 4 (FOUR) Months out of date.

Cassius:
And as I said before, Flavia Claudia forwarded you an old (through December)
copy of the list back in February. We're not going to solve anything here.

>Cassius:
>4. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus then sat on the situation for four whole
>months, doing nothing. He did not do the Tribes and Centuries as he
promised.

L Equitius: IF this were true WHY didn't you speak up about it?? Cause this
is BULL. You didn't give me the information, and you were telling me every
time I asked for the list that Nova Roma was getting new citizens all the
time. delay after delay people finally got fed up but I don't own the website.

Cassius:
I finally DID speak up about it, and brought the issue to the Senate in the
11th hour once it was brutally plain that you couldn't do the job either.
That was when we got the alternative plans from Tullius Callidius, and Lucius
Cornelius Sulla and Antonius Gryllus Graecus. YOU certainly didn't put out
the call for alternative plans on tribes! I *had* to. While you were sitting
around saying the copy of the list you got wasn't good enough, I was being
toasted over the coals as Censor. I finally did have to go past you after
all.

> Cassius:
>Nor did he at any time turn the situation over to the Senate or appoint some
>sort of Committee as the Censors had requested. Instead he allowed the
>situation to fester... with the Citizens becoming more enraged by the day.

Cincinnatus:
Firstly, I wasn't Censor, so I couldn't turn it over to the Senate or some
committee.

Cassius:
No, you were Senior Consul, with the power to bring up the issue to vote in
the Senate, and to appoint a Committee to work on the issue. That's why I
went to you.

Cincinnatus:
>I was not in possession of a current list nor was I receiving ANYTHING in
the way of updates from the Censores until the WEEK before Roman Days!

Cassius:
You had what was available... the old list of Citizens through December.
Nobody had anything newer. The Censors were busy trying to recover lost
Citizenship data, AND sort through all the late plans and suggestions for the
Tribes that had come from various sources once we bypassed you. You make it
sound like we were sitting around on a complete and ready-to-go list, going
'ha ha'. That's silly.

>Cassius:
> 5. The Censors, after working some months to correct the basic difficulties
>to forming the Tribes and Centuries, (online Citizenship application
> problems, Citizen list problems, etc.) were finally able to do the job.
They
>took back the project from Cincinnatus since he had done nothing from
> February till May of this year.

Cincinnatus:
ONCE Again I did not have a list to work with. Cassius, you were telling me
that Nova Roma was getting new citizens all the time. How many time did you
tell me that you had a backlog of application to be processed?? At least half
a dozen or more.

Cassius:
We had more than one Citizens' list problem going. Not only had two months of
fully processed Citizens been lost, but the online application form went down
in March. Now we were trying to re-create info AND deal with complaints from
Citizens' who weren't able to get through and thought they were simply being
ignored. Darned right we had a backlog... but it wasn't due to lack of effort
or time spent on Nova Roma business.

Cincinnatus:
Cassius was simply too busy with personal responsibilities (I don't begrudge
anyone this) to do the work but he would not forward the information or
resign the position (until his buddy Germanicus was dictator).

Cassius:
I was busy with personal responsibilities back in January and February. While
I was still able to carry out most of the Censorial duties, I told you flat
out that I couldn't take the time to research the tribes (I knew NOTHING
about the tribe system) and then draft and implement a plan to create them.
That's why I came to you in the first place. During that time I processed
Citizens and forwarded them to Flavia Iucunda until they were lost. THEN we
had to get the software to keep the list ourselves, and begin retrieving lost
data and dealing with the list going down.


Subject:	Sulla on Sulla
From:
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:57:43 EDT

Salve Lucius Cornelius,

As you can see, I've changed the title of this thread, since you've
changed the subject to yourself. You do indeed sound like a professional
politician. :-)

Bona Fortuna to you, and to Nova Roma.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Well as someone who studied Political Science for 4 years on college and got
>a Degree in it...I dont really concern myself over votes of confidence.
>(Remember you are speaking to the person who got Dex and Rusticus to run for
>Consul, just based on spindoctoring, during the first election primarly to
>spicen up the first race for Consul.) And, as Machiavelli pointed out in
>the Prince...is it better to be feared or loved...well....all I care about
>is getting elected, and as Germanicus pointed out, I have already won.
>Having people's love well...that as, Machiavelli pointed out can
>change....at times literally overnite. Once I am in office I will acquit
>myself of my duty regardless if the people love or hate me. Because in my
>mind I will acquit myself and my actions honorably and with integrity.
>History is decided long after we are done......and History will be the judge
>of our actions...not the the present vote of confidence by the People. As I
>said before, the People could have brought up another candidate to run
>against me. Even L. Equitius could have run against me..but no one did.
>Votes of Confidences's besides, IMHO are irreleveant unless there is a way
>you can remove the subject person in power once they have been given power.
>Also they carry about as much weight, as the polls you see on CNN during
>political races.
>
>All of these things about no one running out of protest for L. Equitius are
>well.....bunk. There was nothing stopping anyone from running for office.
>I have chosen to run for Consul because, quite simply, I want to help
>restore the confidence of the People in the government of Nova Roma. By not
>offering yourselves as a candidate, what voice is made? That you are
>protesting the treatement of Equitius? or for some other reason?
>Well....for whateever reason....no one became a candidate except for
>me....and well I went about it first by asking the people who I trust in
>Nova Roma, (Palladius, Germancius, Q. Fabius, Caesar and Helena Equitia) got
>their opinion and then I elected to run for office, because I feel that I
>will do a good job for Nova Roma. Thats why I ran. To serve the People.
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Senator

sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

(I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)


Subject:	Re: Lets change it back though to forced votes
From:
Date:	Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:05:57 -0700

LOL oh how nice of you to do that.... :) A professional politician
no.....as I have stated before, I want to be an attorney.....primarily a
contracts attorney...thats all....After being Consul....that is the pinnacle
of a political career...that and the Censorship....and that might be
sometime in the future. Oh you say I sound like a professional
politician..Thank you...I take that as a compliment! Considering I still
enjoy studying the Field of Political Science even after I have obtained my
Bachelors and Masters Degree. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 7:57 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Sulla on Sulla

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
> Salve Lucius Cornelius,
>
> As you can see, I've changed the title of this thread, since you've
> changed the subject to yourself. You do indeed sound like a professional
> politician. :-)
>
> Bona Fortuna to you, and to Nova Roma.
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
> >From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >Well as someone who studied Political Science for 4 years on college and
got
> >a Degree in it...I dont really concern myself over votes of confidence.
> >(Remember you are speaking to the person who got Dex and Rusticus to run
for
> >Consul, just based on spindoctoring, during the first election primarly
to
> >spicen up the first race for Consul.) And, as Machiavelli pointed out in
> >the Prince...is it better to be feared or loved...well....all I care
about
> >is getting elected, and as Germanicus pointed out, I have already won.
> >Having people's love well...that as, Machiavelli pointed out can
> >change....at times literally overnite. Once I am in office I will acquit
> >myself of my duty regardless if the people love or hate me. Because in
my
> >mind I will acquit myself and my actions honorably and with integrity.
> >History is decided long after we are done......and History will be the
judge
> >of our actions...not the the present vote of confidence by the People.
As I
> >said before, the People could have brought up another candidate to run
> >against me. Even L. Equitius could have run against me..but no one did.
> >Votes of Confidences's besides, IMHO are irreleveant unless there is a
way
> >you can remove the subject person in power once they have been given
power.
> >Also they carry about as much weight, as the polls you see on CNN during
> >political races.
> >
> >All of these things about no one running out of protest for L. Equitius
are
> >well.....bunk. There was nothing stopping anyone from running for
office.
> >I have chosen to run for Consul because, quite simply, I want to help
> >restore the confidence of the People in the government of Nova Roma. By
not
> >offering yourselves as a candidate, what voice is made? That you are
> >protesting the treatement of Equitius? or for some other reason?
> >Well....for whateever reason....no one became a candidate except for
> >me....and well I went about it first by asking the people who I trust in
> >Nova Roma, (Palladius, Germancius, Q. Fabius, Caesar and Helena Equitia)
got
> >their opinion and then I elected to run for office, because I feel that I
> >will do a good job for Nova Roma. Thats why I ran. To serve the People.
> >
> >L. Cornelius Sulla
> >Senator
>
>
> sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.
>
> (I think some people in togas are plotting against me.)
>
>
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