Subject:	Re: Re: Collegium Pontificum
From:	heckifiknow@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:57:36 +0200

Salve,


M.Papirius Justus wrote:

> 1. The concept of numen is clearly tied to the concept of animism and as
> such, inanimate objects by definition do not have a numen.
>
>
I think you are mistaken. People believing in numen see all things and
beings as animate. Even stones and springs.( remember the Bandusia
spring)
The best example is shinto:-)

Concerning the "sincere belief" thing:

pietas didnīt need to include sincere belief because int the antique
world it was seen as impossible to deny the existence of the gods.




Vale
Lucius Metellus

Subject:	Re: Re: Collegium Pontificum
From:	heckifiknow@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:02:32 +0200

Salve,

What about trying to make a difference between what sacrifice means
today and what sacrifice meant to the ancients?
If we try to walk the ancient path we should accept the ancient meaning
of sacrifice and that meaning was well explained by Richard K. Perskyīs
email.


Vale
Lucius Metellus

Subject:	Re: Re: Collegium Pontificum
From:	"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:21:45 -0400

At 01:57 PM 30/08/1999 +0200, you wrote:
I think you are mistaken. People believing in numen see all things and
beings as animate. Even stones and springs.( remember the Bandusia
spring)
The best example is shinto:-)


Respondeo:

I'm not talking about "people" ... I'm talking about the Romans. When I
referred to 'animate' objects, I was referring to things which contained
'anima'. Anima and numen are pretty much synonymous but in the Roman scheme
of things, I don't think it is correct to say that all things are
'animate'. Not all stones have numen, e.g., but only special ones (e.g. the
Magna Mater). Yes, fons Bandusia had a numen, but ten so did every other
source of water. But I have my doubts whether a Roman believed, e.g., that
his or her shoe had a numen, or the little sponge that he or she used in
the lavatory, or their chamber pot, and on and on.

Scripsit:

Concerning the "sincere belief" thing:

pietas didnīt need to include sincere belief because int the antique
world it was seen as impossible to deny the existence of the gods.


Respondeo:

Talk to Lucretius about that one ...

dm
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[

Subject:	Re: Re: Religio "reenacting"
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:26:26 -0400 (EDT)

Dexippus and Cassius (Building Bridges);

Salvete, Honored Roman Fathers;

In regard to the points made by the most honored Romans above, I have
made cautious inquiries into the local supply of suttable timber for the
Bridge supports for a Bridge crossing at Gales Ferry Bar about 5 mles
upriver from New London on the Thames Estuary.

Early estimates indicate a need for 240 Main BridgeTimbers, 50 tons of
cut stone blocks,, 1500 Large Iron Spikes, 2500 small iron spikes,. 3
tons of heavy turf, 1000 smaller timbers to splil and corduroy the road,
5 miles of fiber rope, 700 smaller bracing timbers and 10-15 tons of
vine latticing.

Work elements required at the beginning of construction two large river
craft with heavy pile-drivers mounted, ten smal e river crft capable of
haulng at least two tons of stone or 3 tons of cut timbers each, two
A-Frame cranes and two Legios stationed at the site, for wok and for
defense of the bridge heads against raids b the local Guals who will
undoubtably see this attempt o civilize this part of the world as an
offense against their freedom and thier gods.

The preliminary plans are inscribed with care upon the walls of the
Patorium, and I now most respectfully ask the Augurs for an aupicious
beginning date for this ambitious project in the name of Rome and Her
Gods. I await with eager anticipation the authorization from the Senate
to take control of the surrounding countryside to undertake this project
together with the arrival of the Legions to begin the aquisition of land
and materials.

Further details regarding funding and administrative work will follow in
due course as required, and any questions from the Roman Fathers will be
considered promptly upon receipt.

This message is hereby forwarded with the greatest respect to the
Consuls and Senate for their consideration..

With the Greatest Respect;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Tribunius Militum
(Praefectus Pontiff Architechturas)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: Religio "reenacting"
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:39:15 EDT

Build the Bridge Audens!

The Gods say it "Must Be Done!"

--Dexippus
Augur!

Subject:	De christiano sacrificio animalum
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:51:49 +0100

Salvete,

Yesterday, an ignominious animal sacrifice took place in the Lusitanian
village of Barrancos. In a bullfight, two bulls were tortured to death with
spiked irons in the arena. The sacrifice was not performed in honour of any
of the roman Gods... Neither was it in honour of any other of the Gods to
Whom the christians call pagan. The sacrifice was in honour of Lady Mary,
mother of the Christ.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Priestly status was Collegium Pontificum
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:15:13 -0500

On 26 Aug 99, --------9:06, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:

>
> 1. Crystallina was appointed as Priestess of Juno by the Dictator, a well
> deserved appointment which the Pontificial College was happy to ratify.
> (Note, Crys had NOT made a formal application for the position before that
> so the Collegia had no chance to make the appointment by usual channels.)
> Crys volunteered to undergo a six-month trial period as a Camilla or
> "apprentice" to learn more about the priesthood. In the recent spat on the
> Internet list she resigned, and her status is as yet unclear.

I am not sure that I can serve Nova Roma in the capacity of
Priestess right now. I have served Iuno for the better part of my life
and will continue to do so. However I am under the impression that
my Patron deity is quite unpleased with the state of things as they
stand now with Nova Roma. What she will do about this is on her.
I have not appealed to her on the behalf of Nova Roma.

Depending on how you look at it I am still Priestess of Iuno. I
would rather not have my name associated with the position within
Nova Roma. So yes, I resign the "official" position given me by the
Dictator. I will continue to research the position on my own (as I
have always done) and I will continue my involvement with Nova
Roma as long as the gods feel the need for me to be here. But I
cannot chance displeasing Iuno by being involved with this "official"
priesthood.

The Temple of Iuno website is down at the moment while I correct a
thing or two. I will post when it is back up and corrected.

Pax

Amethystia Crystallina

Subject:	Re: Priestly status was Collegium Pontificum
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:29:43 +0100

Salve Amethystia Crystallina, Priestess of Iuno

At least, could you tell us why Iuno is unpleased with Nova Roma and how can
we appease Her, how to regain Her favour?

Vale

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	George VanDeWater VanDeWGe@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:50:49 -0600

Salvete omnes,

I too would have like the opportunity to vote on each applicant and the lex as separate issues. As the unopposed applicant for Aedilis Plebis, I apologize for stepping forward to fill a vacant seat in the Plebeian Assembly. I saw a need and was encourage to do so. I would have much rather work toward strengthening Nova Roma here in my Provincia. I would say to all of you who are having difficulty with voting for unopposed candidates jump in the ring and run against us.

Valete,
G. Africanus Secundus

>>> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; 08/28 4:09 PM >>>
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;

Salvete omnes,

Was anyone else irritated at having been forced to cast votes for two
unopposed candidates in order to be allowed to also vote on the proposed
law that was on the same ballot?

My personal preference would be to have the option of selecting "no vote"
if there's only one name in the pull-down menu of candidates on a
multi-issue ballot.

This should not be interpreted as a slap at either of the two men
standing for offices. I just don't like being denied to the option of not
voting for some individual candidate.

Valete,

L. Sergius Aust.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


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Subject:	Re: forced votes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:50:45 -0400 (EDT)

G.Africanus Secundus, C. Sulla;

My Dear Sirs;:

There is no possible reason for your apologizing for taking up "he gage"
as it were of service to the republic. I honor you for your action and
believe that the highest form of flattery to any organizaton is the
honor to serve that organization as an officer. It is a mark of
unselfih devotion, all the more so if undertaken without recompense..

My fellow citizens who have indicated some feelings about the election
process, I am sure feel in a similar way that I do. That perhaps in the
future that voting will be considered when there is more than one
candidate running and that proposed laws be seperated from office
candidacies in the voting process. There is also the consideration of
the option of appointing officers to vacancies (that have no competing
candidates), rather than going through the process of voting. Having
said all of the above, this is all an outfall of a re-organization of
Nova Roma and if we are not 100% accurate this time, I think it
understandable.

I applaud Consul Palladius for his taking charge in an active way at the
end of the Dictator's Period of Office and the actions that he has
taken. I applaud those individuals who have undertaken to stand for
office as magistrates and to further the aims of Nova Roma in a positve
and specfic way. Giuded by the new laws placed into effect, the
experience of our magistrates both civil and religious, and by a
reconstituted and more numerous Senate, I have every expectation that
these gentlemen who now stand for office out of unselfish motive for
service in NR will do well in their endeavors and bring credit to
themselves as well as laurels to NR.

The earler comments of several citizens in the aspect of the re-birth of
a great republic and a great religion, as well the slow erasing of the
lines of demarcation between religions so greatly darkened and stained
with past wars, and conflicts are pleasing to me, as well as
encouraging. I can see many of the enviable aspects of the Roman State
and Religio and respect both as one would respect the positive aspects
of any institution. I do not believe it is required for a heart-felt
love and belief in the institution to honor it, and respect it. I do
agree, however, that in devotions to my God, I expect the priest,
minister, imam, clergy, etc. to be every bit as involved as I am
myself, as that person leads me in devotions, regardless of what religio
I embrace.

So, to you who are serious volunteers to the advancement of Nova Roma, I
applaud your actions and you have my support. May your Gods guide your
every action and your footsteps in the coming tasks before you. May you
always have your hearing tuned to the needs of your constituants and
your tongues stilled to criticism and self-jstification during your
office. Do the best you can, with what you have, seek advice for
proposed actions in which there is some doubt, and provide all who wish
it a place to submit ideas and thoughts. Act and speak wisely and with
temperence for Nova Roma, with your fellow Citizens and speak gently in
reply to comments knowing that you probably have a greater understanding
of the situation in your sphere of influenece than any other. Remembe
that you are an instrument of their will and not neccesarily of your
own...

Vale, Respective Candidates;
Most Respectfully Submitted For Your Consideration,

Marcus Minucius Audens;

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: division.
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:32:12 -0400 (EDT)

L.Serius Aust. wrote:

"---unless there is conflict, there is no progress---"

This is a concept which while very accurate is the first to be forgotten
by those wishing peace at all costs. Life is having opinions and
fighting for your right to those opinions.

That procedure repeated thousands of times on every concievable subject
has led to our current status, in technology and experience in all of
our various worlds and activities. As indicated previously, if not
curbed by restriction in murder, mahem, house-burning, slavery, and
other activites resulting in the immediate silencing of our detractors,
the game can become one-sided in minimal time.

However, if certain basic protocols are followed the conflict of give
and take will yield valuable lessons to be learned, not the least of
which is to make your own points effectively in a critical atmosphere
without resorting to character assasination or to the more permanent
physical style of silencing your opponenet.

Marcus Minucius Audens,

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Fw: Law Committee Report
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:38:49 -0400

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:42:27 -0700
From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes

> 2. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus instead took on the job himself. He did not
> give the situation over to the Senate,
>
> I said I would do it BUT I GOT NO INFORMATION... As for commitees, what
ever happened to the "Law committee"??? Or the Financial Committee?? Many
peopleare simply more interested in sharing their opinion than actually
doing
anything.

As per the law committee.....It was in the Venue of the Senators....the Old
Senators. It was originally headed by F. Claudia....then she had alot to
do.....and Av. Tullius Calladius headed the Law Committee....we had 2
meetings....with him and Q. Fabius Maximus....I asked him if he was going to
have other meetings he said he would....but never scheduled them....and
well....it was left in limbo. And, no one took over the meeting.... With me
being just a Praetor Urbanus who wasn't in the Senate....I was not in a
position to supervise or moderate such a committee.....As it was the in the
Venue of the Old Senate. That is what happened to the Law Committee....
L. Cornelius Sulla Senator

Salvete,

Once again some people don't have their facts straight. The only Senator
that was involved was Flavia Claudia. This was the last post I ever received
concerning this subject and it was sent to the list not the Senate.

Valete, Lucius Equitius


-----Original Message-----
From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 3:57 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Law Committee Report


>From: m--------oon <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
>We've gotten some excellent volunteers for the NR law research, so I'll
>keep everyone informed of our progress as it happens.
>
>First: our goal is to propose a system of civil law for NR, which
>includes the laws themselves, the penalties, the processes for trials.
>
>When we've got this information, we'll turn the whole thing over to the
>Senate and probably the Praetore Urbanii for consideration. We know that
>trials were conducted by the Praetor Urbanis, but we have no civil laws
>to enforce.
>
>Our main problem is picking a period of history to emulate. Republican
>law spans quite a long time, but we're starting with the Twelve Tables
>and working from there.
>
>Volunteers for this committee (so far) are:
>L--------nus <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246033014165012132015098190036129" >SDmtwi@--------</--------;
>Callidus <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166066165056209112225046026229222078143100196169130152150" >masterofhistor--------..</a>
>Q. F--------s <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>Papinianus <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114232192237248190028232203208129208071" >----------------@--------</a>
>Flav--------laud--------<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029176066112038190112158203026129208071" >m--------oon@--------</a>
>
>I recommend that the committee keep in close touch by e-mail, so that we
>can discuss our findings. This is NOT going to be a walk in the park and
>it isn't going to be done very quickly, so don't expect instant results!
>
>If anyone commits any major transgressions, I guess we'll just have to
>stone him or her or toss 'em in the Tullian Jail to wait until we have a
>system!
>
>Thanks to everyone who's working on this gigantic project.
>
>-- Flavia Claudia

Subject:
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:39:19 -0400

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:14:36 EDT
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
Subject: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes

Salvete, Quirites

I heartily encourage most Citizens to delete this continuing thread. Even
though I'm more than happy to debate with Cincinnatus and his supporters
about it until the end of time if necessary... this isn't doing anyone any
good. It's all over and done with at this point. :P

That's right Germanicus owns the site now and he has appointed himself Censor and made Censor the Supreme magistrate (though the citizens haven't voted any of this). Like I said, we're just visitors here.

That being said:
Cassius:
Unfortunately, they are. I posted that you shared guilt just as everyone else
did. Even your most ardent supporter has acknowledged this. To quote from the
reply to my posting from L. Sergius Aust.:

"The only new _facts_ you would add are that Lucius Equitius also had
offered to form the tribes & centuries, and that he should be added to
the list of those who failed at this task. That seems irrefutable."

Yes, this is true. I have them mostly formed but I was not getting citizens information until the week before Roman days. Then it was determind that you and Palladius would do them so I stopped working on it and I have not gotten any more information.

>Cassius:
> 1. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was informed by the Censors in January of
this

Cincinnatus:
The Censores never asked the Senate to do the Tribes. Show the transcript.

Cassius:
You were all upset about the Tribes. As Censor I came to you and said I
couldn't do them in a timely manner, and that if you wanted them done you
should bring it to the Senate or form a Committee to do them. You said you'd
do them yourself. I suppose I should have instantly thought you were lying,
and gone past you and directly to the Senate anyway?

No, you should have just forwarded the information to me but you never did. Just why not? IF you were Censor and part of your reponsibility was maintaining the citizens list and you didn't have time or know how to do it, why didn't you just send me the list yourself??

>Cassius:
>2. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus instead took on the job himself.

Cincinnatus:
I said I would do it BUT I GOT NO INFORMATION. Cassius never sent me a single new citizen entry Until the week before Roman Days.

Cassius:
What you got was a copy of the Citizen's list that only had people up to
December. The problem with the list involving data being lost by Flavia
Iucunda meant that you couldn't get the January and February new Citizens.


Like I said I didn't get a list until April that was 4 months out of date. So finally you're admitting this at least.

Cincinnatus:
>As for commitees, what ever happened to the "Law committee"??? Or the
Financial Committee?? Many people are simply more interested in sharing their
opinion than actually doing anything.

Cassius:
They ended up being superseded, at least temporarily.

> Cassius:
>3. Due to some of the same reasons why the Censors were having a problem,
>Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus was unable to form the Tribes and Centuries
>*either*.
Cincinnatus:
> Like I said before I never got a list until APRIL and that list was at
least 4 (FOUR) Months out of date.

Cassius:
And as I said before, Flavia Claudia forwarded you an old (through December)
copy of the list back in February. We're not going to solve anything here.


No No No. She sent me a list in April that was 4 months old. What we're solving here is that I'm tell the truth and you were jerking me around for months.

>Cassius:
>4. Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus then sat on the situation for four whole
>months, doing nothing. He did not do the Tribes and Centuries as he
promised.

L Equitius: IF this were true WHY didn't you speak up about it??

Cassius:
I finally DID speak up about it, and brought the issue to the Senate in the
11th hour once it was brutally plain that you couldn't do the job either.


Because you weren't sending me any of the citizens' data, at least until the week before Roman Days in June. What was 'brutally plain' was that you weren't going to let me get it done either. Just when I was all but done you and Palladius step up and say you'll do it, then it still doesn't get done until you give all the information and the Website to Germanicus.

> Cassius:
>Nor did he at any time turn the situation over to the Senate...
Cincinnatus:
Firstly, I wasn't Censor, so I couldn't turn it over to the Senate or some
committee.

Cassius:
No, you were Senior Consul, with the power to bring up the issue to vote in
the Senate, and to appoint a Committee to work on the issue. That's why I
went to you.

Nope I didn't have the power to do that, the Censores are to do those things.
I was going to form the Tribes and submit them for your and Palladius' aproval, as Censores, but I was getting no infomation from you to work on them.

Cincinnatus:
>I was not in possession of a current list nor was I receiving ANYTHING in
the way of updates from the Censores until the WEEK before Roman Days!

Cassius:
You had what was available... the old list of Citizens through December.
Nobody had anything newer.

You had new citizens coming every day, at least that was what you were telling me. And the Website is claiming many more citizens than I had listings for. That is why I was not going to come out with the Tribes. We are claiming ~285 citizens and I form tribes consisting of ~215?? Right.

>Cassius:
> 5. The Censors, after working some months to correct the basic difficulties
>to forming the Tribes and Centuries,

Cincinnatus:
ONCE Again I did not have a list to work with. Cassius, you were telling me
that Nova Roma was getting new citizens all the time. How many time did you
tell me that you had a backlog of application to be processed?? At least half
a dozen or more.

Cassius:
We had more than one Citizens' list problem going. Not only had two months of
fully processed Citizens been lost, but the online application form went down
in March. Now we were trying to re-create info AND deal with complaints from
Citizens' who weren't able to get through and thought they were simply being
ignored. Darned right we had a backlog... but it wasn't due to lack of effort
or time spent on Nova Roma business.

When the online application went down prospective citizens can send applications be 'snail mail'. RTFQ/N (read the full question/note) I still wasn't getting the information forwarded to me I needed to do the job whatever the reason.

Cincinnatus:
Cassius was simply too busy with personal responsibilities (I don't begrudge
anyone this) to do the work but he would not forward the information or
resign the position (until his buddy Germanicus was dictator).

Cassius:
I was busy with personal responsibilities back in January and February. While
I was still able to carry out most of the Censorial duties, I told you flat
out that I couldn't take the time to research the tribes (I knew NOTHING
about the tribe system) and then draft and implement a plan to create them.
That's why I came to you in the first place. During that time I processed
Citizens and forwarded them to Flavia Iucunda until they were lost. THEN we
had to get the software to keep the list ourselves, and begin retrieving lost
data and dealing with the list going down.

Subject:	Religion and Politics
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:53:18 -0400 (EDT)

In addition to the comments of Merrulus and Magister, I wish to add the
following:

If any of you have the idea that politics is non-existant inthe
hierarchies of the Chritain Church, you are sadly mistaken. Many people
have left the formal church for just that reason and follow thier
devotions at home rather than endure sch at their place of worship.
While this is unfortunate, it is unfortunately an apparent follow-on of
human intolerance and favor.

I know for a fact that the same unwholesome problem plagues some of our
nations most creditable institutions, such as the Boy / Girl couts of
America, United Way, etc. to the extent that hundreds and thousands of
vlunteers leave each year who are sick of it.

What is the solution for politics. It is fairly simple:

--Respect the views of those with whom you are in contact;

--Modify response to those vews in such a way as to make yur point, but
to leave your correspondent with his dignity intact;

--Refrain from sarcastic and specialy worded rejoinders, which talk dow
to others;

--Minimize your organizational importance and inflate that of your
correspondent;

--Be aware that if there is the least doubt in your mind as to whether
your response will offend---It Will!!!

--Correspond and with your contacts in the same way that you would like
to be dealt with;

--If you are in your own mind savaged by someone take it offlist and ask
why and for the justification.

When Politics is open to the bright light of srutiny and reason it
rapidly fades, but it is a shade plant and hiding it from view enavbles
it to grow prodigiously!!!

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Latin Humour(?)
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:36:18 PDT

Quiritibus Latitoribusque, Salutem!

I think it opportune to offer the following:

Horace, Vergil and Maecenas were great friends. On one occasion they rented
a villa at Baiae and went on vacation together.

One day, Vergil suggested they take a pleasure trip across the Bay of
Neapolis, and Maecenas used his pull with Caesar Augustus to get them places
on an Imperial galley.

The sky was a cloudless azure blue, mirrored in the still, calm caerulian
waters of the Bay. There was hardly a puff of wind as the remigores bent to
their task. All in all, it promised to be a pleasant trip.

Horace, however, was a very poor sailor, and the motion of the ship soon
made him queasy. By the time they were half a mile out, he was heaving
violently over the side. Sailors turned to look, then shook their heads in
contemptuous disbelief. Patrician women, taking a turn on deck, giggled
unkindly as they passed.

"Feeling any better now?" Vergil asked his friend solicitously, after Horace
had thrown up his lunch.

"Eheu!" said Horace (or something that sounded like that).

The more stoical Maecenas tried a different approach to hearten his friend.
"Aren't you ashamed to show such weakness in front of sailors and women?
What are you thinking of? Where would Rome be if everyone acted the way you
are doing?"

Horace turned a haggard, pale green face towards him.

"O si sic omnes," he groaned.

Bene valete,

Vado.

Subject:	Re:
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:35:52 -0400

Salvete Luci Equiti et Marce Cassi et alii



>From: "Lucius" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a>
>

>So is anyone going to answer the questions of what are the Bylaws of Nova
Roma Inc. and who are the board of directors??

Subject:	Re: Fw: Law Committee Report
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:27:02 -0700

> As per the law committee.....It was in the Venue of the Senators....the Old
> Senators. It was originally headed by F. Claudia....then she had alot to
> do.....and Av. Tullius Calladius headed the Law Committee....we had 2
> meetings....with him and Q. Fabius Maximus....I asked him if he was going to
> have other meetings he said he would....but never scheduled them....and
> well....it was left in limbo. And, no one took over the meeting.... With me
> being just a Praetor Urbanus who wasn't in the Senate....I was not in a
> position to supervise or moderate such a committee.....As it was the in the
> Venue of the Old Senate. That is what happened to the Law Committee....
> L. Cornelius Sulla Senator
>
> Salvete,
>
> Once again some people don't have their facts straight. The only Senator
> that was involved was Flavia Claudia. This was the last post I ever received
> concerning this subject and it was sent to the list not the Senate.
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
>

Sulla: Are you sure that is completely true. F. Claudia said at the time, if I
remember correctly that the Senate asked her to head it up.....if you would like
I will be more than happy to confirm that with her. Besides...you were Senior
Consul..are you telling us that as Senior Consul, the Senate of Nova Roma was
taking actions that you had NO idea what was going on? Even Av. Tullius
Callidus said that the notes he was taking were being reported to the Senate.
He stated that I believe to Q. Fabius Maximus and myself.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator

Subject:	Re: Fw: Law Committee Report
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:18:01 EDT

In a message dated 8/30/1999 3:28:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< Sulla: Are you sure that is completely true. F. Claudia said at the time,
if I
remember correctly that the Senate asked her to head it up.....if you would
like
I will be more than happy to confirm that with her. Besides...you were
Senior
Consul..are you telling us that as Senior Consul, the Senate of Nova Roma was
taking actions that you had NO idea what was going on? Even Av. Tullius
Callidus said that the notes he was taking were being reported to the Senate.
He stated that I believe to Q. Fabius Maximus and myself. >>
Salve Lucius Equitius!
To set the record straight, (why I really don't know, must be the Roman in
me,) the then chair of the law committee, Tribune of the Plebeians A. Tullius
Callidus told me that he was reporting his discussions and findings directly
to the Senate. When I was working on listing all the ancient Leges for F.
Claudia, she told me that the Senate was in the loop.
So, Lucius Equitius apparently you as the senior consul was receiving no
information, which begs for an interesting question. If this was the case,
why? People didn't think you were critical to the process? Or as senior
consul, everybody would only report to you when the subject was completed or
did people just did not want to report to you? If it was the latter that
would explain greatly the paralysis NR suffered during your consulship. C.
Sulla and I, F. Maximus were at two meetings chaired by the Tribune, we
discussed a bit about the law in NR, but Tullius seemed to be more interested
in getting his concept of how the centuries would be formed adopted by the
Senate than instituting major law reform.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
Curule Aedile.

Subject:	Re: Re: Cincinnatus and the Tribes
From:	Ira Adams iadams@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:07:08 -0500

Salve Marcus Cassius,

Just for the record, I can hardly be counted as Lucius Equitius' "most
ardent" supporter -- I haven't thrust my fist into the jaws of the wolf
even once, let alone twice.

Most of the people here have supported justice for Lucius Equitius to
varying degrees, right from the beginning of the Dictatorship. I doubt
that anyone's opinions have changed: we're just all interested in getting
on with things. All of his civil rights have been restored, and all the
facts of which we are aare have been stated publically, so there's no
point in going on indefinitely.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
[SNIP]
>Even your most ardent supporter has acknowledged this. To quote from
>the
>reply to my posting from L. Sergius Aust.:

Subject:	Re: Religion and Politics
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:47:14 -0500

On 30 Aug 99, at 13:53, James Mathews wrote:
>
> What is the solution for politics. It is fairly simple:

Politics is simply the idea that we can get along without parting
someone's hair with a wrench. It is not a problem, it is a solution.
When politics denies rights to members of the body politic, and
asserts the validity of the use of force within the body politic, it is
the duty of all who love liberty to strike down the illegitimate
government.

The fighting and killing was here long before the human race.
Politics, with all its dirt, is the highest creation of the human mind.
Let all who would not be slaves pay careful attention to politics.

Gaius X Mamertinus

Subject:	Re: Latin Humour(?)
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:04:42 -0700

Avete Quirites,

Nicolaus Moravius wrote:(A nicely written joke.)
>
> "O si sic omnes," he groaned.
>
> Bene valete,
>
> Vado.
>

But the punch line made my brain hurt... >(({;-P

In Amicus - Venator