| Subject: |
Re: Announcement from the rogatores |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:08:16 -0400 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
:
:However, when one is running un-opposed and there is no choice but to vote
:for that person, the idea of a vote becomes mute. Vote or not vote, the
:candidate is elected.
True. There are at least two reasons, however, that voters would want to
exercise their vote anyway in the current two assemblies:
i) Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum, a law with which one
either agrees or disagrees. The only way to make your agreement or
disagreement count is to vote on it in the Comitia Centuriata
ii) If noone votes, voting, assemblies and other republican institutions
will fall by the wayside. We'll be left at best with either a club or some
form of perpetual dictatorship.
:
:magistrates no longer
:have to take an oath of allegiance to the Gods of Rome?
Yes, Germanicus declared this change in an edict.
:
:Can someone confirm this and explain the reasoning? Considering that NR
was
:set up to emulate that of Roma Antiqua and all the fuss in the past about
:keeping as close to the ancients as possible, where does the logic, reason,
:and purpose of this stand?
I cannot explain the reasoning and suspect that only Germanicus could do
that. But, I can say that Germanicus removed the requirement to swear an
oath, it seems to me, at about the same time that he introduced the new
constitution that included the provision for the comitia curiata. The
latter ceremonially invests magistrates with imperium. Although I am just
speculating, it seems to me that he chose to remove one form of ceremony so
as not to allow the addition of another to become too awkward.
I personally believe that the old oath was more useful than the ceremony of
the comitia curiata. Whereas the posting the oath forces the magistrate to
do at least the virtual equivalent of mouthing the words that describe
responsibility, the comitia curiata ceremony only allows some people acting
as lictores curiati to pronounce the magistrate vested with imperium; it is
passive from the point of view of the magistrate, as far as I can tell.
The comitia curiata did, however, exist in Roma Antiqua, and therefore the
very valid argument of authentic reconstruction that you point out is the
one that Germanicus cited in instituting the comitia curiata.
:
:--Dexippus
:
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: candidacy of Lucius Anneus |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:28:37 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
>> According to the edictum posted at the aerarium, candidacies for aedilis
>> plebeium had to be declared until August 23rd at the latest. Lucius
Anneus
>> posted his message on August 26th...a bit too late.
I confirm. I've already written to two 'too-late' citizens. I remind you
that you can still run in December for a complete year of office. I
encourage you to keep your motivation to enter the Cursus Honorum.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis, et coetera
|
| Subject: |
Re: Announcement from the rogatores |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:34:48 +0100 |
|
Salvete
>However, to
>reassure everyone, once formally invested in the position as Consul, I
plan,
>with Consul Decius Iunius Palladius to draft a new Oath and plan to
>incorporate it as a lex. Thereby requiring all future magistrates to state
>the Oath.
I completely agree with an oath. Go ahead Consules!
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis
|
| Subject: |
Oaths & Obligations, Moral & Legal |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 06 Sep 1999 05:42:38 PDT |
|
L. Cornelius Sulla scripsit:
>That is correct the Oath was never required to begin with, actually.
>Considering it was never incorporated in either the Old Constitution or the
>new one for that matter. In essence it was just there. However, to
>reassure everyone, once formally invested in the position as Consul, I
>plan,
>with Consul Decius Iunius Palladius to draft a new Oath and plan to
>incorporate it as a lex. Thereby requiring all future magistrates to state
>the Oath.
- I assume, Sulla, that your interpretation of what constitutes a
requirement is (in this instance) of a legal nature, because the Oath was
never explicitly required by the Constitution. Surely, though, it is, and
always has been, a moral requirement?
I think I can say with confidence that no-one would disagree with this:
that what is moral - decent, honest and honourable - is not the same as what
is legal. Gods and citizens forbid that we ever confuse the two.
Legal constraints are, in my opinion, a 'bottom line' to compel the morally
deficient.
Any decent person, on taking up office in Nova Roma, will surely wish to
swear an oath because honour and decency require it, not because the
Constitution says they must. Of what value is an oath taken under
compulsion?
And what, by the way, is wrong with the old Oath, that you and Palladius
should feel the need to spend your valuable time drafting a new one?
Nicolaus Moravius Vado
Legatus Britanniae Meridianalae nullomodoque confirmatus
(Legate of Southern Britain and not at all reassured).
|
| Subject: |
Oath |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:33:02 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve Civs;
The discussion regarding the subject and the expected actions of the
Comitia Curiata would not work very well in combination with the Oath.
The Oath is probably the only personnal guarantee of a magistrates
sincereity and effort in the position to which he has been elected.
Once he / she has taken that oath the CC could grant the imperium to the
magistrate in a formal ceremony. Seems lke that is pretty basic to me,
it certainly adds dignas to to both the Magistrate and the CC.
In regard to changing the Oath, I like the former one as it was written.
I do not say that the Consuls cannot come up with a better one, but I do
say that it might be difficult. I say better rather than different,
because the former Oath rings well in the saying and rings well also in
the doing.
Vale and with Respect;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Out of topic: Timor |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:32:05 +0100 |
|
Salvete!
As you know, Lusitania (Portugal) is still the administrative power over its
former colony of East Timor, according to UN resolutions. A referendum was
performed under the UN and 78% of the people voted for independence from the
dictatorship of Indonesia. The Nova Roman governor and the provincia are in
total agreement with the aspiration to independence of the Maubere people of
East Timor.
Please, read the following and forward to friends, institutions, etc.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae
Widespread death and destruction are happening in East Timor.
Unless world leaders exert maximum pressure on the Indonesian Government
the results of last Monday's referendum will be followed by a growing
massacre and destruction of thousands of citizens who braved everything to
vote, expressing overwhelmingly their wish to become independent.
Regrettably, the Indonesian Government is not fullfiling the New York
agreements and has allowed the violence to spread.
An international force is essential to prevent the total slaughter of
the people by the anti-independence militias.
Therefore,
I call upon you to URGENTLY exert all of the available means at your
disposal to make the killings stop and prevent the deportation and massacre
of the people of East Timor.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Schedule in NJ etc (Kind of Off-topic) |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:04:39 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Civs;
My NJ re-enactment schedule for the remainder of the year is as
follows::
--Sept. 17-19--Cold Spring Village, Cape May. NJ--Civil War Re-Enactment
with skirmishes both days,& Federal Grand Parade and Artillery Demos--I
will be on the Federal Officer Staff Line as a British Royal Engineer
and Military Observer;
--Oct. 23-24--Dye Mansion, Wayne, NJ--Rev War encampment and Skirmishes
both days. I will be wth the 42nd Regimentof Foot (Black Watch
(Highlanders-look for kilts!!) as a Crown Engineer;
--Nov. 06-07 Hope Lodge--Fort Washington, PA
Rev War Encampment and Skirmishes both days, Grand Parade, and
demonstrations in sword and dirk, bayonet walks, and debates between
Loyalist and Patriotic views. I will be again with the Highlanders
(42nd) as a Crown Engineer;.
In all of the above events. I am usually asked to narrate the events to
the spectators to exlain the very different field tactics of the period,
so if you have trouble finding me in camp, I will be at the skirmish.
One of the NR gentlemen asked me for this schedule, and I thought that
it might interest those of you that live in New Jersey as well. It is
one way to meet face-to-face with a minimal effort on the part of those
in the area, since I am committed to go anyway.
Vale with Respect;
Marcus Minucius Audens.
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Oaths & Obligations, Moral & Legal |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:02:21 -0700 |
|
Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla scripsit:
>
> >That is correct the Oath was never required to begin with, actually.
> >Considering it was never incorporated in either the Old Constitution or the
> >new one for that matter. In essence it was just there. However, to
> >reassure everyone, once formally invested in the position as Consul, I
> >plan,
> >with Consul Decius Iunius Palladius to draft a new Oath and plan to
> >incorporate it as a lex. Thereby requiring all future magistrates to state
> >the Oath.
>
> - I assume, Sulla, that your interpretation of what constitutes a
> requirement is (in this instance) of a legal nature, because the Oath was
> never explicitly required by the Constitution. Surely, though, it is, and
> always has been, a moral requirement?
Well...moral and legal arent the same thing for me. There was nothing that
specifcially said I had to take the Oath when I was elected for Praetor
Urbanus. I just did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. But no one
could have prevented me from holding my position if I decided I didnt want to
take it. And that to me is a very big deal.
> I think I can say with confidence that no-one would disagree with this:
> that what is moral - decent, honest and honourable - is not the same as what
> is legal. Gods and citizens forbid that we ever confuse the two.
>
> Legal constraints are, in my opinion, a 'bottom line' to compel the morally
> deficient.
>
Not always. They are to bring equality to everyone too. Can you imagine
someone not taking an Oath for the office of Consul? Please. It is to assure
that the Religio is protected assuradely. Besides its not like we can confirm
someone is holding a stone in their hand when they take the Oath!
>
> Any decent person, on taking up office in Nova Roma, will surely wish to
> swear an oath because honour and decency require it, not because the
> Constitution says they must. Of what value is an oath taken under
> compulsion?
>
> And what, by the way, is wrong with the old Oath, that you and Palladius
> should feel the need to spend your valuable time drafting a new one?
>
Well when I am Consul, I will definately tackle that question. Right now I am
not doing very much yet expect spending time with Helena Equitia Ovidia. All my
work in terms of the Consulship will begin once invested with Imperium. :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Out of topic: Timor |
| From: |
"Marco Guasti" fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:22:28 +0300 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 7:29 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Out of topic: Timor
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete!
>As you know, Lusitania (Portugal) is still the administrative power over
its
>former colony of East Timor, according to UN resolutions. A referendum was
>performed under the UN and 78% of the people voted for independence from
the
>dictatorship of Indonesia. The Nova Roman governor and the provincia are in
>total agreement with the aspiration to independence of the Maubere people
of
>East Timor.
>Please, read the following and forward to friends, institutions, etc.
>
>Valete
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Propraetor Lusitaniae
>
>Widespread death and destruction are happening in East Timor.
>Unless world leaders exert maximum pressure on the Indonesian Government
>the results of last Monday's referendum will be followed by a growing
>massacre and destruction of thousands of citizens who braved everything to
>vote, expressing overwhelmingly their wish to become independent.
>Regrettably, the Indonesian Government is not fullfiling the New York
>agreements and has allowed the violence to spread.
>
>An international force is essential to prevent the total slaughter of
>the people by the anti-independence militias.
>
>Therefore,
>
>I call upon you to URGENTLY exert all of the available means at your
>disposal to make the killings stop and prevent the deportation and massacre
>of the people of East Timor.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Antonio Grillo,
I'm happy to confirm you that I already
sent the second part of your message to
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212192112082154184158031248166208071048" >president@--------</a> , just the president (or at least some office of
the presidency) of the USA. I was able to have it signed by 10 people,
(2 americans, 1 israelian, 6 romanians, and one, myself Italian)
I also invite everybody to forward such message to the above e-mail
address, and also to others, possibly of members of US Congress and
Government people. Whoever can find such addresses would do a great thing to
publishing them on <a href="mailto:helptimor@--------" >helptimor@--------</a> , a list I am just creating to
help. You'll be also moderator if you like.
All those NOVA ROMANS who feel one or both of the following reasons valid
migth also help:
* A sense of humanitarian love for freedom, justice, rigth, peace
(just a sense of kinship with other humans in
trouble)
** A sense of even closer kinship for those humans which trough a neo-latin
language remember us of a direct (if european) or indirect (if
extra-european, colonial ) common cultural heritage having its deepest root
in ROME. Of course without any prejudice for the complete opening of NOVA
ROMA to people of absolutely every origin sharing a common love and
respect for ROMAN civilization as the sense of Rome in history was just to
civilize the aliens through LAW, its greatness was to be the first non
tribal society based upon LAW,
|
| Subject: |
Re: Out of topic: Timor |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:54:33 +0100 |
|
Salve Marco
Gratias multas ago tibi
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae
|
| Subject: |
New Computer / New E-Mail |
| From: |
James Mathews jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:18:21 +0000 |
|
I apologize if this letter is a repeat, but I am working with a new
computer. It has a lot of things that I don't know about so excuse me
if I don't get everything right. My new E-Mail address is above, and I
would prefer that NR use that new E-Mail address. I will slowly shift
all my correspondence to this net as I get better at it. However, I
will leave my former E-Mail active for the next month to insure I don't
miss any messages.
Thank You for your kind attention to this message
Marcus Minucius Audens
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Schedule in NJ etc (Kind of Off-topic) |
| From: |
DTibbe2926@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:07:03 EDT |
|
In a message dated 06/09/99 17:04:56 GMT Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
<< I will be on the Federal Officer Staff Line as a British Royal Engineer
and Military Observer;>>
If you bump into the guy playing Flashman, give him my best! ;-)
Vale,
Severus
|
| Subject: |
Email change! |
| From: |
"Kyrene" kyrene@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:45:37 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
For this emailing list in particular, I've switched emails from
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=051028091056078198162061186140081090177098100046209130" >K--------eAriadne@--------</a> to <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198015242190036129" >k--------e@g...</a>. I'm doing this before I
find that I have run out of time and Yahoo quota to be able to send
messages, which would be a downright pity! BTW, Outlook Express' Message
Rules are *very* happy things! :)
Everyone can still send me personal email to either account, fear not.
Valete et khairete,
Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAria *=-
|
| Subject: |
Re: New Computer / New E-Mail |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:19:41 -0700 |
|
Ah another Earthlink user...I can see it now...either you, or Germanicus or
Ericius calls in..and LOL I am on the phone..LOL! Funny!
Sulla
James Mathews wrote:
> From: Jam--------ath--------<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196061130152150" >jmath669642r----------------</a>
>
> I apologize if this letter is a repeat, but I am working with a new
> computer. It has a lot of things that I don't know about so excuse me
> if I don't get everything right. My new E-Mail address is above, and I
> would prefer that NR use that new E-Mail address. I will slowly shift
> all my correspondence to this net as I get better at it. However, I
> will leave my former E-Mail active for the next month to insure I don't
> miss any messages.
>
> Thank You for your kind attention to this message
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist announces "FRIENDS & FAMILY!"
> For details, including our weekly drawing, go to
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Useful Link |
| From: |
Steven Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:50:52 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes,
Venator scripsit,
While doing a little newsgroup browsing I found what appears to be a useful
link to a costuming information resource.
<a href="http://www.costume.org" target="_top" >http://www.costume.org</a>
Lots of graphics, many from old publications.
In Amicus - Venator
|
