Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Re:Oath of Office
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:20:55 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Razenna wrote:

> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>

> > I, Decius Iunius Palladius, Consul of Nova Roma hereby issue the following
> > edict, binding on all citizens who assume *any* magistracy of Nova Roma,
> > whether elected or appointed, from the date of this edict onward.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The following oath must be taken publicly (defined as in the public forums
> > of Nova Roma--the forum board or the list) before someone elected or
> > appointed to any magistracy can assume his or her office.
>
> * * * * * Here * * * * * *
>
> > I, __enter legal and Roman name here____________
>
> Why the requirement for "legal name"? It is actually asking for
> the "non-Roman" name since taking an oath is "YOU" taking the
> oath.

Salve Erici,

The oath requires both legal and Roman names. Since we are a real world
organization, I thought that putting one's legal, "real world" name a good
idea, at least in the oath. As Cassius pointed out, this covers people as
magistrates of Nova Roma and officers of the Corporation. I really do not
think it a big deal and wonder why you have reacted so strongly.

> Or has a loop hole been found in "Honor"? It seems very
> odd to me. Honor is Honor. To try to get out of something is
> dishonorable, whether a shyster can find a loophole or no, one is
> forsworn. I guess I should try and define "shyster" for the non-Americans.
> A shyster is an shifty, unscrupulous (sp?) lawyer who stays within the
> law, who is possibly unethical but does not leave evidence that would allow
> one to bring him up on charges of malpractice. That is not a complete
> elaboration,
> but it is enough to get the idea.

Or enough to confuse the rest of us.....

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius/Art McGrath III


Subject:	Re: Incorporation (again).
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:25:20 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Daniel Dreesbach wrote:

> From: Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>

Salve G. Iuni Germane,

>
> How do we become a member of the corporation?

By running for office and being elected to the office of praetor, consul,
or censor, at which time you will automatically become a member of the
senate and the BoD.

> If this corporation has
> legal control over this entity I would to know more about it.

Read the Constitution, specifically Article I.C.

Vale,

Decius Iunius Palladius,
Consul, Paterfamilias Gens Iunia

>
>
>
>
> --- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> > From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
> >
> > In a message dated 9/7/99 9:56:42 PM Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> > <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------/font>
> >
> > <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> >
> > > Since the Constitution will become the bylaws of
> > Nova Roma and the
> > > Magistrates the official legal officers as far as
> > our nonprofit status,
> >
> > Ericius:
> > Now that you mention it, when will this be?
> > >>
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > There was actually a thread on this while you were
> > on vacation. Not a wonder
> > you missed it... I bet you had a full mailbox when
> > you got back! ;)
> >
> > Our old "ad hoc" bylaws and Board of Directors were
> > originally set up quickly
> > so that NR could get a nonprofit bank account. We
> > HAD to have an above-board
> > and verifyable place to put the money that we were
> > recieving from Citizens.
> > Although this was approved by the Old Senate at the
> > time it was never
> > intended to be a permanent arrangement. Obviously it
> > never got done before
> > the Dictatorship... the tribes etc. were considered
> > to be in greatest need of
> > attention.
> >
> > Since the Dictatorship, we've had to wait for the
> > new Constitution and
> > officials to become "legal" before they could be put
> > onto updated
> > incorporation papers. We couldn't post the new
> > Constitution as the bylaws
> > before it was ratified, nor could the new Senate be
> > the board of Directors
> > until their positions were settled.
> >
> > With the end of the current elections, (giving us a
> > President and Vice
> > President in the *two* Consuls) it will be possible
> > to get the new paperwork
> > in and legal. Look for the paperwork to be set and
> > filed about a week after
> > the election. It'll no doubt take a bit of time to
> > type out the paperwork,
> > and then there'll be the delay in actually mailing
> > to the state of New
> > Hampshire, where we're already filed.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> > ----------------------------
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> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


Subject:	Re: Incorporation (again).
From:	"Marco Guasti" fresco@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:01:17 +0300


Subject:	Re: Timor & the White House--Off Topic as it gets
From:	"Marco Guasti" fresco@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:44:30 +0300

-----Original Message-----

>From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>

>This would be good for a laugh if it weren't that people are dying.

I fully and absolutely agree . (M. Prometheus)

>Why are you sending your little pleas to the United States
>government???

M. Prometheus:
For many reasons,
- First reason that of your first line
- Second because it was the only relevant e-mail addres I had yesterday,
I had no Australian addresses Onu e-mails or Malaysian links
- Third because I trust (enough) the good will of US Government to do
something good
with the military force funded by US taxpayers which "history", and others
"gods" gave them
(I understand that US taxpayers must mind also their taxes, but at least
personally I am grateful,
and even willing to help, and willing stronger bonds between the two sides
of the Atlantic if possible, of course with mutual help and shared costs,
rigths and responsabilities.
Usually in international politics I find myself more on US positions than
European positions.
- Fourth because Antonius Grillo which I learned to appreciate from his
posts asked.
- Fifth because I have seen some Hollywood moovie where some blue jackets
soldiers
(cavalry I guess) arrived in time to save some people in trouble.

Razenna wrote:
> I would think the United Nations would be the proper recipient.
M.Prometheus:
Only theoretically, as A) they have no power of their own,
B) They are extremely slow being a kind of Forum, and not at all an
executive government,
and C) They are usually blocked by one of the two Commies with rigth of veto
in the Security Council.
D) The only moovies I remember with United Nations soldiers intervening
somewhere where
moovies about the Corean War, and General Mc Arthur was leading the cavalry
(armored this time).

And wasn't there a lot of whining and ranting about the
>United States being involved with Europeans in a European trouble
>spot?
Yes, but I did'nt, and if you USA wouldn't there would be more troubles and
more ranties
at least in my most humble opinion.

>Well, if you have not been keeping up with events, the UN has given
>Indonesia a 48 hour deadline to stop making people dead. A "Peace
>Keeping" force is being readied. It seems it will be led by the
>Australians, who will probably be more acceptable than the despicable
>imperialistic Americans. At least until it is discovered that the
>Australians are also even handed.

Fine with the Aussies too.
But if the Aussies will go and US will not send any man, still do you think
that they could do it without American consultation, advice, political
sustainance in the general world political arena,
Satellite assistance (photo reconnaissance, radio communications etc.),
Coaxing Indonesia,
etc etc. ?????

The USA do have a very big share of their power concentrated in a single
person
that is why if you want to lobby for an international cause which has some
urgency
the first address to lobby is <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212192112082154184158031248166208071048" >president@--------</a>
If the problem is not urgent perhaps the Amnesty international approach is
also good,
(they do lobby the vilain state fist of all) but it was not the case
yesterday.

But with all this of course I recognize the very modest importance of a few
messages,
and I did'n ask for an american military intervention, of course USA cannot
rush always, everywhere, and always militarly, just coaxing diplomacy
sometimes is enough. Luckily we are not asked to be heros nowdays. Just to
honor the Roman name with the VIRTUS of a little CARE

Conclusion,
That you (or me) want or not, the USA are the only remained superpower and
the leader of
the world, of the civilized world, of western world and of western
civilization, and of NATO and even the leader of United Nations (sometimes
when Russia or China abstain from veto)
Your centurions still use eagles (US presidential flag, seal etc) .
Your senate still displays fasces etc.
Until ten years ago when there was an iron courtain your miles manned the
LIMES facing barbarians commies.
(You still keep them out of the LIMES bribing their chieftains like king
BORIuS ELTSINIUS of Sarmatia, ok the gold of the Rhine - provincia
Germania - contributed largely too)
Your republic is founded upon the worship of a very interesting item
INVENTED by the ROMANS
LAW intended as the founding element of a state!
Hammurabi's written laws are older, others too OK , but were just laws of a
state or of a tribe,
while Roman state was since the very beginning a dynamic state of emigrants
(the descendents of AENEAS refugees from TROY the sabines etc)
which invented the law and the "worship of the law" as founding element of
the state, so it was special, and for America too the law is special,
dynamic element of integration of immigrants and of minorities and object of
"cult" too, I would say, oneother similarity !
Also other peoples abide the law (the Danes I guess and few others) but few
"worship" it as Americans.

So you are the new Europe, the greater Europe, as once existed in southern
Italy a MAGNA GRECIA a Greece greater than the original you are a kind of
Greater Europe, of modern ROME. It is your responsability to lead that you
want or not. Hope you'll do together with the old continent. It is somhow a
relationship similar to that one which happened between Rome and Greece when
in 197 bc the consul Titus Quintus Flaminus after defeating at the battle
of Cynocephales king Philip the 5th of Macedonia (Hannibal's ally during the
second Punic war) did not want to annex and rule directly Greece, but
recognized her freedom solemnily proclaimed in Corynt at the hystmic games
in front of all the representatives of Greek cities (196 bc )
Unfortunately Greek cities remained internally divided and and at wars nad
Romans ended this phase. Fortunately the Marshall plan and European Union
are a success, and hopefully
atlantic partnership will last and develop too.

VALE et VALETE.
M. Prometheus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

>Dear Antonio Grillo,
> I'm happy to confirm you that I
>already
>sent the second part of your message to
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212192112082154184158031248166208071048" >president@--------</a> , just the president (or at least some
>office of
>the presidency) of the USA. I was able to have it signed by 10
>people,
>(2 americans, 1 israelian, 6 romanians, and one, myself Italian)
>I also invite everybody to forward such message to the above e-mail
>address, and also to others, possibly of members of US Congress and
>Government people. Whoever can find such addresses would do a great
>thing to
>publishing them on <a href="mailto:helptimor@--------" >helptimor@--------</a> , a list I am just
>creating to help.
>
>
> All those NOVA ROMANS who feel one or both of the following reasons
> valid migth also help:
>
>* A sense of humanitarian love for freedom, justice, rigth, peace
> (just a sense of kinship with other humans in trouble)
>** A sense of even closer kinship for those humans which trough a
>neo-latin
>language remember us of a direct (if european) or indirect (if
>extra-european, colonial ) common cultural heritage having its deepest
>root
>in ROME. Of course without any prejudice for the complete opening of
>NOVA
>ROMA to people of absolutely every origin sharing a common love and
>respect for ROMAN civilization as the sense of Rome in history was
>just to
>civilize the aliens through LAW, its greatness was to be the first non
>tribal society based upon LAW,
>
>
>
>
> ------------


Subject:	Re: Timor & the White House--Off Topic as it gets
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:31:00 +0100

Salve Razenna,

Besides the reasons that Marco Guasti gave to you, I will give a few more of
my own:

1) The structure of the UN allows all security decisions to be taken by and
in the interest of the great powers, which includes the United States. Well,
but to say the truth, I'm not able to see how it could work in a different
way - power is power.

2) The cold war was won by the United States, and now the United States are
the power more able to dictate its will.

3) I was against the bombing of Serbia. Many innocent people died. I still
think there could have been a different way... Well, difficult though =).
Now, we are not asking the USA to bomb Jakarta nor Timor. We ask for a peace
force in Timor, which would surely have little trouble restoring the order
because:
a) It would have the support of the majority of the people.
b) The FALINTIL (independentist gerrilla) would stay quiet because they are
(and are proving to be) disciplined.
c) The pro-indonesian militias are more like an undisciplined rabble.
d) The Indonesians would not respond.

Vale

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae


Subject:	Re: PBS Special "In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great"
From:	"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 06:09:17 -0400

Actually, I sent the following excerpt from my Ancient World on Television
listings to another list ... I should start sending such things here:

Educators and educatrices looking for AV material for the upcoming semester
might be interested in the following programs:

]|[ Monday, September 6

9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine First Our Neighbors ...
Joe Campanella hosts this really decent series about Roman military stuff;
the first episode looks at Rome's army in the early Republic.0

9.00 p.m. PBS In the Footsteps of Alexander Across the Hindu Kush
The series continues with Michael Wood wandering through the Hindu Kush
mountains, wondering about the size of Alexander's ego

]|[ Tuesday, September 7
8.00 p.m. HISTU England's Great Wall
Oft-repeated look at Hadrian's ego

9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Roman v. Roman
Julius Caesar's army ...

]|[ Wednesday,September 8
3.00 p.m. HISTU In Search of ... Troy
A nice quick look at Heinrich Schliemann ...

9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Roman Siege Warfare
Roman engineering in war ...

10.00 p.m. HISTU Plumbing Arteries of Civilization
I seem to recall an AWOTV reader telling me that this program contains
substantial ancient material ... it's all about the history of plumbing

]|[ Thursday, September 9
9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Barbarians at the Gate
Rome's army before the fall ... (no, not autumn)

]|[ Saturday, September 11
5.00 p.m. HISTC Egypt: Quest for Eternity
Repeat of Tuesday's program

]|[ Sunday, September 12
1.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine
HISTU is rerunning all four episodes of the series, beginning at 1.00

8.00 p.m. CNBC National Geographic Explorer Mummies of Gold
I'll hopefully be regularly including CNBC in the lineup now; this episode
deals with the discoveries at the Barhariya oasis of late (thanks to
numerous folks for the heads up!)

At 06:54 PM 07/09/1999 -0400, you wrote:
From: Jenn--------nt <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029233253185018190112158203026129208071" >moonloon@--------</a>

If you're at *all* interested, check out this website -- it's really great:

www.pbs.org/mpt/alexander

Looks like the program has already run, however.

I. Ovidia Luna, a/k/a Jenni Hunt
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029233253185018190112158203026129208071" >moonloon@--------</a>
Teacher, writer, secretary, and *still* Friend of Cows

Look for me on ICQ (#488714) or AIM (Mooonloon)

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]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[


Subject:	Re: Apology
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:50:20 -0700

Salvete.

A most gracious apology. May I be able to be as gracious in its
acceptance.
May your term in office be exceeded in success only by your happiness
and success in your home life, good Sulla.

Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius


Subject:	Laws and Sausages (was EDICT: Oath of Office)Salutem!
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 05:05:50 PDT

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject:	Laws and Sausages (was EDICT: Oath of Office)
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 05:15:48 PDT

Salutem!

Well, how quickly some things happen in Nova Roma, estne?

One day, you're beginning a discussion with the Junior Consul about moral
and legal discipline, external and internal - as the Junior Consul says he
is considering whether a law might be formulated on the subject...

...and the next, before you know it, the Senior Consul has upstaged his
junior colleague by sticking up a one-man Edict all over the place (see also
the Forum). Sorry, Sulla. There's really no point in our discussing it now,
is there? It has the force of law.

So much for Consular co-operation. Ah, well. Better get back to my stock of
bad jokes, I s'pose...

Valete,

Vado.

"The less the people know about the way laws and sausages are made, the
easier they will sleep at night."

- Otto von Bismarck


Subject:	Re: Incorporation (again).
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:14:15 -0400

Salvete Marce Cassi et alii

Does NH not allow Co-Presidents and Co-VP's? The constitution states that
the consuls are to be Co-Presidents, the urban praetors co-VP's.

Valete

CMM
-

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>

>There was actually a thread on this while you were on vacation. Not a
wonder
>you missed it... I bet you had a full mailbox when you got back! ;)
>
>With the end of the current elections, (giving us a President and Vice
>President in the *two* Consuls) it will be possible to get the new
paperwork
>in and legal. Look for the paperwork to be set and filed about a week after
>the election. It'll no doubt take a bit of time to type out the paperwork,
>and then there'll be the delay in actually mailing to the state of New
>Hampshire, where we're already filed.
>
>Vale,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>


Subject:	Re: Timor... Off Topic as it gets
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 11:30:39 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes....

The title says it all, I think... I've been in wait-and-see mode for a
couple of days to see where this thread was going. We had a very Roman
and civil discussion about Kosovo earlier this year, and I was thinking
the current thread might be more of the same.

However, we are being subjected this time to panegyrics. I am not sure
that impassioned pleas for U.S. action are even tangentially related
to 'anything that relates to ancient Rome or to the modern organization
called Nova Roma'.

The originator of this thread has quite thoughtfully and sensibly
provided a separate OneList for discussion of East Timor. I therefore
request that any interested parties conduct said discussion on the
HelpTimor List.
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka M�ria Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'


Subject:	Re: Re: Timor... Off Topic as it gets
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:46:55 +0100

Salvete Fimbria et omnes

You are partially right. But don't forget that I'm the Governor of
Lusitania, and many refugees from Timor are Portuguese citizens. They speak
a Latin language (maybe the closest to ancient Latin). What concerns me as
governor, concerns Nova Roma. Moreover, if Nova Roma is a sovereign nation,
relations with other 'modern' nations are also of interest to our 'modern'
presence and participation in world affairs.

I have posted once with a small and simple request in favour of the people
of Timor. I'm posted a second message as an answer. I won't post again on
this issue. But still, it is of our concern. If you want to see it from
another point of view, Timor speaks Portuguese only because the Romans had a
presence in Lusitania.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae

-----Original Message-----
From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:31 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Timor... Off Topic as it gets

From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>

Salvete omnes....

The title says it all, I think... I've been in wait-and-see mode for a
couple of days to see where this thread was going. We had a very Roman
and civil discussion about Kosovo earlier this year, and I was thinking
the current thread might be more of the same.

However, we are being subjected this time to panegyrics. I am not sure
that impassioned pleas for U.S. action are even tangentially related
to 'anything that relates to ancient Rome or to the modern organization
called Nova Roma'.

The originator of this thread has quite thoughtfully and sensibly
provided a separate OneList for discussion of East Timor. I therefore
request that any interested parties conduct said discussion on the
HelpTimor List.
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka Mdria Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'

--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

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Subject:	Re: Citizens living in Italy? / LANGUAGES
From:	"Marco Guasti" fresco@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:09:49 +0300

-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 4:42 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Citizens living in Italy?

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;

Salvete,

I ' m ready to help,
but as I , Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
am not yet recognized as civis in N R,
perhaps it would be better if yourself or some more official person
than me would write a letter of short presentation of NR and of request of
contact and informations.

Do you want also to extend immediately an invitation to join NR
if their stated goals are the same or at least partially compatible with
those of NR, or you prefer to wait until you receive such information, and
perhaps prefer to invite only to consult the Web site and to join the list?

If you prepare a text, I'll translate it and forward it by snail mail.
If you prefer otherwise I'll do it myself basing myself on the NR site.

If you want you could also send free a spare copy (old or new) of the Eagle,
and ask in exchange a copy of the Cittadella. and ov eventual bulletins
publied by the Associazione Romana Quirites.

As the first of your addresses contained 2 typos, if you want to send snail
mail please use the corrected address:

Segreteria
Associazione Romania Quirites
Corso Garibaldi 120
47100, Forli, Italy

Also I guess if it would be possible to translate all or some of the
N R website pages in most other neolatin languages (and in latin too), so
that more neolatin and latin loving people can consult them.
I volonteer with italian and romanian, and if nobody does it with french
too. I understand also other languages, but I am not fluent.
I am sure somebody else can take care of spanish and portuguese,
In the future some Occitanic and Aragonese enthusiast
could translate in Provencal and Catalan too.
Among european peoples one which loves and finds a lot of kinship with ROME
is the good polish people, so if somebody
knows well that language it would be very useful too, I am sure a good
number of them would respond if exposed to NR.
In Poland alreadi do exist local paganism reconstructionists, I visited some
web site, at least two grups
Same with german language, (there are already many germans
reconstructionist).

This does NOT means that all the activity of NOVA ROMA migth
be carried on contemporarly in 6 - 8 languages.

English is will do.
A lot of people everywhere speak some english
[ or at least do "thing" they do ;-)))) as I also think still
surely making many mistakes ]
Some good will from all, native and not native english speakers and some
friendly, very friendly correction of mistakes will help.
Preventive explaination in brackets of slang, idioms or other difficulties
will help, just as it has been proposed for latin words introduced in our
messages (I noticed people already began to do it, very well, so others can
learn).

Even if english is a neo germanic language at his core
(i.e. if you examine the origin of the 1000 most common words),
I read some filologist says that it is more neolatin language than a
germanic one if you make a statistic of the origin of words
(latin vs. germanic) of a much larger vocabulary , let's say of 50 thousand
words.
So, ENGLISH too is in part a successor of LATIN : - )
So we neo-latins migth not to feel too uncomfortable with it !

>Salvete,
>
>I'm hoping that we still have a few Italian Citizens among us, as I've
>recently gained the addresses of two Roman Reconstructionist resources in
>Italy. Since I don't comprehend a word of Italian myself I'm hoping that
>someone out there might be able to benefit from these. (And perhaps even be
>able to share with the rest of Nova Roma!)
>
>The first address is to a group, the Association of Roman Quirites:
>
>Segretaria
>Associazione Romania Quirites
>Corzso Garibaldi 120
>47100, Forli, Italy
>
>The second address is to a Religio Romana publication; La Cittadella:
>
>Salvatore C. Ruta
>La Cittadella
>Viale Italia n. 71
>98124, Messina, Italy
>
>It'd be great to find out about Roman reconstuction groups, etc. going on
in
>Italy itself. If anyone out there lives in Italy, or speaks Italian and
would
>like to contact these folks, I'd be most grateful to hear how it goes!
>
>Valete,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject:	Re: Laws and Sausages (was EDICT: Oath of Office)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 11:03:33 -0700

Well....an Edicta if I recall correctly can easily be overturned. Right now as
Decius Iunius informed me this is just a quick fix. There will be something
more....umm...what word...more formal in drafting once this election is
complete. There is Consular coperation I knew exactly what my Collegue was
going to do. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul Elect et Senator.

Nicolaus Moravius wrote:

> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salutem!
>
> Well, how quickly some things happen in Nova Roma, estne?
>
> One day, you're beginning a discussion with the Junior Consul about moral
> and legal discipline, external and internal - as the Junior Consul says he
> is considering whether a law might be formulated on the subject...
>
> ...and the next, before you know it, the Senior Consul has upstaged his
> junior colleague by sticking up a one-man Edict all over the place (see also
> the Forum). Sorry, Sulla. There's really no point in our discussing it now,
> is there? It has the force of law.
>
> So much for Consular co-operation. Ah, well. Better get back to my stock of
> bad jokes, I s'pose...
>
> Valete,
>
> Vado.
>
> "The less the people know about the way laws and sausages are made, the
> easier they will sleep at night."
>
> - Otto von Bismarck
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Show your ONElist SPIRIT!
> <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2</a> ">Click Here</a>
> With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject:	Re: Re:Oath of Office
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:52:43 -0700 (PDT)

--- Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
wrote:
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla
> <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
> Salve oh NOBLE Ericius....and I use that term
> losely. But is Shyster in the Blacks
> Law Dictionary...if so please furnish the page and
> what edition it is in. Becuase I
> have checked both the 4th and 5th edition and I dont
> see it there. Thank you for your
> most informative research.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Consul Elect et Senator
>

Ah, most noble Sulla, you have yet to pass the bar
exam and trudge among the noble class of men of law
(when you do, you'll know how apt is the description
"shyster" of many of them).

Vale
L. Licinius Varro Murena
Former Practicing Attorney
Present Teacher of Ancient & Medieval Legal History
__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>


Subject:	Re: Incorporation (again).
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:17:09 -0700 (PDT)

--- Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a> wrote:
> From: Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>
>
> How do we become a member of the corporation? If
> this corporation has
> legal control over this entity I would to know more
> about it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> > From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
> >
> > In a message dated 9/7/99 9:56:42 PM Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> > <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------/font>
> >
> > <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> >
> > > Since the Constitution will become the bylaws of
> > Nova Roma and the
> > > Magistrates the official legal officers as far
> as
> > our nonprofit status,
> >
> > Ericius:
> > Now that you mention it, when will this be?
> > >>
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > There was actually a thread on this while you were
> > on vacation. Not a wonder
> > you missed it... I bet you had a full mailbox when
> > you got back! ;)
> >
> > Our old "ad hoc" bylaws and Board of Directors
> were
> > originally set up quickly
> > so that NR could get a nonprofit bank account. We
> > HAD to have an above-board
> > and verifyable place to put the money that we were
> > recieving from Citizens.
> > Although this was approved by the Old Senate at
> the
> > time it was never
> > intended to be a permanent arrangement. Obviously
> it
> > never got done before
> > the Dictatorship... the tribes etc. were
> considered
> > to be in greatest need of
> > attention.
> >
> > Since the Dictatorship, we've had to wait for the
> > new Constitution and
> > officials to become "legal" before they could be
> put
> > onto updated
> > incorporation papers. We couldn't post the new
> > Constitution as the bylaws
> > before it was ratified, nor could the new Senate
> be
> > the board of Directors
> > until their positions were settled.
> >
> > With the end of the current elections, (giving us
> a
> > President and Vice
> > President in the *two* Consuls) it will be
> possible
> > to get the new paperwork
> > in and legal. Look for the paperwork to be set and
> > filed about a week after
> > the election. It'll no doubt take a bit of time to
> > type out the paperwork,
> > and then there'll be the delay in actually mailing
> > to the state of New
> > Hampshire, where we're already filed.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > ONElist now has T-SHIRTS!
> > For details and to order, go to:
> > <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt1" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt1</a>
> > ">Click Here</a>
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
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> of the Week.
> For full story and to submit yours, go to
> <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/ootw25" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/ootw25</a>
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>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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Subject:	Re: Re: Timor... OnTopic
From:	"Marco Guasti" fresco@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:27:10 +0300

-----Original Message-----
From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 9:31 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Timor... Off Topic as it gets

>From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
>
>Salvete omnes....
>
>The title says it all, I think... I've been in wait-and-see mode for a
>couple of days to see where this thread was going. We had a very Roman
>and civil discussion about Kosovo earlier this year, and I was thinking
>the current thread might be more of the same.
>
>However, we are being subjected this time to panegyrics. I am not sure
> that impassioned pleas for U.S. action are even tangentially related
>to 'anything that relates to ancient Rome or to the modern organization
>called Nova Roma'.
>
>The originator of this thread has quite thoughtfully and sensibly
>provided a separate OneList for discussion of East Timor. I therefore
>request that any interested parties conduct said discussion on the
>HelpTimor List.
>************************************************************
>Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
> mka M�ria Villarroel |\=/|
> <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
>Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
> and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
>'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
> bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
> but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marcus Prometheus most respectfully answers:

Salvete.

I'm sorry to have subjected you all cives to panegirics, deeply felt anyway,
I agree that the issue must be discussed more on the proper separate
list, but besides from having to answer on this list to the remarks made on
this list, my point is that I am not so sure that albeit indirectly the
subject
of mobilizing NR citzens in favor of Timor survival as separated entity
has nothing to do with ancient Rome or with NR.
Because of their cultural (& historic and religious) links to Portugal,
lasted 4 centuries, over 78% of East Timorese people doesn't want to be
assimilated by the mare magnum of mostly muslim Indonesia.
They are somehow lusitanized (= made portuguese) so somehow neo latinized,
so there is a cultural thread from ROME to them, and
> bein' a Roman... It's hard work, but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!'
perhaps some citzens of NOVA ROMA, (not all, it's not compulsory, smile)
could find proper some kind of personal mobilization in favour of human
rigths and CULTURAL rigths of some people to which they have discovered the
far reflex of something of roman civilization, the above said thread of
cultural kinship.
Neither me or Antonius Grillo, (see his recent post) advocated any kind of
armed intervention paid by uncle Sam (most novaromans are US taxpayers too),
and manned by US personnel, but we both asked willing sensible novaromans
individually, not as an organization to lobby immediately for political and
diplomatical strong and fast U.S. intervention.
As I wrote in my previous post : No heroes, also No US army,
No NOVA ROMA LEGIONS either.

BUT

simply NR list was considered a FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD
(FOR the ABOVE SAID REASONS OF albeit far CULTURAL KINSHIP)where it was
allowed to lobby and ask others to lobby, where Antonius Grillus, initiator
of the Timor thread, and me could post messages not to be considered a Spam,
or offence to the common sensibility.
Then not all must respond positively, those who can recognise the thread
of some latinization in Lusitanian Timor perhaps will do something, others
will not care of those too far away "relatives", no problem.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
And now speacking of the future, beyond the present case
Why politics in NR MUST obbligatorily be only internal politics ?
Why NR migth not have a politic of cultural preference ?
Isn't a cultural reenactment society ?
Isn't a micronation ? Well nations, even micronations can have a foreign
politic, especially a foreign cultural policy, a politicy of preferences for
those other subjects felt as nearer, as kinsmen, as relatives.
Perhaps the FRANCOPHONY union is a kind of inspiring example,
they are not a state, nor a kind of NATO superstatal military union, they
just do cultural politics with preference to everything which is neolatin.
The Nordic Union (Skandinavia etc.) is a similar example of cultural
solidariety , and 10 years ago recognizing an old HANSEATIC thread linking
them to Lithuania, Lettonia and Estonia, lobbied in favour of the
cultural and human rigths of the Baltic states helping them to escape the
soviets grip, and it was cultural politics, humanitarian politics, touched
also some echologic political issue, and alltogether was Foreign Politics,
and a fraction of big politics of that time.
If among NR stated aspirations there is a future sovereign territory the
size of Vatican city, then NR will have a lot of FOREIGN POLICY, just like
the Vatican city. And perhaps once will lobby East Timor government to vote
at the United Nations in favour of Nova Roma being recognized as sovereign
entity.
Better to keep copies of our lobbing in favour of them, you know
DO UT DES (give if you want to receive).

Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia

Defending the LIMES of Roman civilization
and of their more modest neolatin heirs too
in provincia DACIA ROMANIA, and now
in EAST TIMOR among malay pirates !


Subject:	New Re-Enactor Page
From:	"Gaius Triumphius" poeticfiend@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:45:15 PDT

Salvete,

I was using the Ask Jeeves multiple search engine to see whether Nova Roma
was yet on any of the search engines I have sent to have added when I found
this new re-enactor page. The address is huge so I suggest cut and paste. I
saw Germanicus listed on the page.

Here is the address:

<a href="http://www.askjeeves.com/main/metaAnswer.asp?MetaEngine=Infoseek&logQID=DCFF2D2E4C66D31195D200A0C9D4BA8C&qCategory=GEOG&qSource=4&frames=yes&site_name=Jeeves&scope=web&r=x&MetaTopic=Listing+of+Roman+Units&MetaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reenactor.net%2FAncient%2Froman%2Froman_units.html&EngineOrdinal=3&ItemOrdinal=9&ask=Nova+Roma+metasearch&origin=0&MetaList=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reenactor.net%2FAncient%2Froman%2Froman_units.html&x=14&y=9" target="_top" >http://www.askjeeves.com/main/metaAnswer.asp?MetaEngine=Infoseek&logQID=DCFF2D2E4C66D31195D200A0C9D4BA8C&qCategory=GEOG&qSource=4&frames=yes&site_name=Jeeves&scope=web&r=x&MetaTopic=Listing+of+Roman+Units&MetaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reenactor.net%2FAncient%2Froman%2Froman_units.html&EngineOrdinal=3&ItemOrdinal=9&ask=Nova+Roma+metasearch&origin=0&MetaList=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reenactor.net%2FAncient%2Froman%2Froman_units.html&x=14&y=9</a>

Valete,

Gaius Triumphius Cicero,
Senator et ProPraetor


Subject:	Re: Social War Site update
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:24:41 -0500 (CDT)

Salve, Sulla amice:

>The final tentative updates have been completed. Come and check out
>the site. It is located at home.earthlink.net/~alexious All of the
>spelling errors and such have been corrected.

Have you properly credited the artist for the graphics on the main
page? I recognize them from the Osprey Men-at-Arms series, 'Armies of
the Carthaginian Wars'. The artist's name may be found on the cover of
the book where you scanned it from... Please correct (or have Fabius
correct) this oversight if you haven't already.

Gratias tibi...
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka M�ria Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'


Subject:	Re: Timor... OnTopic
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:30:17 -0700

Salve Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia!

Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator scripsit:

I appreciate the passion and reason with which you and Antonius Gryllus
Graecus have presented the information about East Timor.

I am not a practitioner of the Religio Romana, but an adherent to Asatru,
which being a modern reconstruction of the religion of my northern European
Ancestors. One of the leading Asatru thinkers, Stephen McNallen is fond of
saying the "Freedom is a religious issue." Thusly, I support the
self-determination of the Timorese people. That they are Christian or heirs
of Rome matters not. That they wish to be free and to shape their own
destiny as a people is enough for me.

In Amicus - Venator

Post Scriptum: My beloved grandfather was born in Castel Mauro (a little
northeast of Campo Basso) and my grandmother of Blessed Memory, her father
was from Castel Di Sasso (about halfway between Naples and Rome) and her
mother was born in the Eternal City itself. This is the heritage of my
mother which I honor by my Citizenship in Nova Rome.


Subject:	Re: Incorporation (again).
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:53:00 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 9/7/99 9:56:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------/font>
>
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
>

> With the end of the current elections, (giving us a President and Vice
> President in the *two* Consuls) it will be possible to get the new paperwork
> in and legal.

Just to correct this misimpression now--we currently have a president and
vice-president of the corporation, namely myself and M. Mucius Scaevola,
respectively. Consuls are the *co-presidents* and the praetors the
vice-presidents. When Sulla is consul he will be co-president, not
vice-president, with equal, not lesser powers to mine.

Valete,

Decius Iunius Palladius
Consul

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Quis ita familiaris est barbaris,
ut aram Victoriae non requirat!"

Quintus Aurelius Symmachus


Subject:	Link to a fascianting site
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:29:20 -0700

<a href="http://www.byzantium1200.org/" target="_top" >http://www.byzantium1200.org/</a>

Here is a site for the restoration of Constantinople. I know many of us find the Byzantine History just as fascinating as I do. So I hope that this would be appropriate considering that there is some architecture that was Imperial in nature noted in here. I hope you enjoy it!

L. Cornelius Sulla
Senator