| Subject: |
Re: Re: Timor... OnTopic |
| From: |
"Marco Guasti" fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:12:40 +0300 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 6:30 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Timor... OnTopic
>From: Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
>
>Salve Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia!
>
>Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator scripsit:
>
>I appreciate the passion and reason with which you and Antonius Gryllus
>Graecus have presented the information about East Timor.
>
>I am not a practitioner of the Religio Romana, but an adherent to Asatru,
>which being a modern reconstruction of the religion of my northern European
>Ancestors. One of the leading Asatru thinkers, Stephen McNallen is fond of
>saying the "Freedom is a religious issue." Thusly, I support the
>self-determination of the Timorese people. That they are Christian or
heirs
>of Rome matters not. That they wish to be free and to shape their own
>destiny as a people is enough for me.
>
>In Amicus - Venator
>
>Post Scriptum: My beloved grandfather was born in Castel Mauro (a little
>northeast of Campo Basso) and my grandmother of Blessed Memory, her father
>was from Castel Di Sasso (about halfway between Naples and Rome) and her
>mother was born in the Eternal City itself. This is the heritage of my
>mother which I honor by my Citizenship in Nova Rome.
Salve Piperbarbe Ullerie Venator,
GRATIAS TIBI
AGO
I thank you very much for your positive comments.
I just add some observation:
For me too freedom is religous matter and sacred,
so for me too it is a reason good enough to support TIMOR.
(By instance, let's say this induced me to lobby for Timor, for the time of
one evening instead of watching TV).
BUT to follow the request of lobby of Antonius Grillus Lusitanicus was for
me also a pleased duty because I greatly appreciate him, I feel he is a
very good CIVES, loves Rome and is reasonable, has team' spirit, always
cooperative and he tries always to be part of the solution, not part of the
problem as in the last constitutional crisis of NOVAROMA.
So I learned to appreciate him reading his posts in the last 3 months and I
consider him undobtedly a friend.
So also friendship to him is a reason for me, and I suppose, there is
nothing wrong, if I do a good thing for 2 reasons instead of one.
(By instance, let's say this induced me to lobby for Timor, for the time of
one more evening instead of watching TV).
BUT not only, I also intervene for the good reasons of neolatins of Timor
(and I would not if they were the oppressors, believe me)
for a third reason, I feel to be a cultural relative of them, so I apply my
personal
cultural and humanitarian policy of dedicating myself even more to their
good cause. Again I suppose there is nothing wrong in it. Do you agree?
(By instance, let's say this induced me to lobby for Timor, for the time of
one more evening instead of watching TV).
So I have some love for freedom, some frindly motives, AND some cultural
felt kinship, which all add for a cood cause.
YOU also do something similar when in your post scriptum hint that for you
one ADDITIONAL reason of satisfaction in being an honoured NOVA ROMA
CIVES is your heritage:
>Post Scriptum: My beloved grandfather was born in Castel Mauro (a little
>northeast of Campo Basso) and my grandmother of Blessed Memory, her father
>was from Castel Di Sasso (about halfway between Naples and Rome) and her
>mother was born in the Eternal City itself. This is the heritage of my
>mother which I honor by my Citizenship in Nova Rome
So we agree very well , (we just happen to agree even more
than you thougth at first). that there is no reason of being ashamed of
loving more those nearer to us (culturally or for family ties).
I n the case of cultural ties, I call this "cultural preference policy"
(Excluding NObody, of course, but having some more special attention to
those nearer to you for cultural reasons).
I feel that this can be a very legitimate subject of interest for SOME of
the NR citzens, just those who feel it and want to follow this thread, in
the variable geometry of interests of N R
There is absolutely no difference of view among us, but what I just cannot
understand are those which are intolerant to every mention of neolatin links
How can somebody appreciate roman values and dislike deeply some or all
of Romes heirs, so much as do not to accept even that on the N R list people
speaks of sligth cultural preferences for neolatins ?
If they dont like the theme they can just follow their other preferred
threads, Archeology or everything else.
But really , for me this is an important question for all NovaRomans:
Do we have to trust the value of attachement to Roman Cultural values
from those allergic to neolatin people and in case of Timor also of very
rigth themes? Can you love just the marbles?
This remembers me when I was in Athens and a silly tourist on a cultural
archeological tour, very admirative for the monuments was showing a lot of
disgust with the heirs of those builders. He loved the marbles and hated the
people. It is a contradiction, (even if not many people in Athens (or in
Italy) live to the heigth of their ancestors.)
But our duty of NR is to honor the Roman name elevating ourselves to the
treasure of Classic cultur, not to distance ourselves from the descendants
of that culture which are our kinsmen culturally (or sometimes by ancestry
too).
All I ask is for a NR neighborhood friendly to posting some humanitarian
and
cultural neolatin themes (to be followe just by those freely willing to do
so in the multiple geometry of interests of NR).
VALETE QUIRITES
|
| Subject: |
Re: Cultural Preference & Timor.) |
| From: |
"Marco Guasti" fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:50:56 +0300 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 10:20 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Cultural Preference...? (was: Re: Timor... OnTopic)
>From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
>Signore
>You pose a good set of questions for Nova Roma's (very) long-term
>consideration; however, some of them carry some very disturbing
>implications for those of us raised to believe that *every* human being
>is precious, regardless of nationality or creed: most especially the
>following...
M. Prometheus
I also do believe that *every* human being is precious regardless
of nationality, so we can certainly clarify and remove disturbing doubts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
M. Fimbria Quotes M. Prometheus:
>>Why NR migth not have a politic of cultural preference ?
>>Isn't a micronation ? Well nations, even micronations can have a
>>foreign politic, especially a foreign cultural policy, a politicy of
>>preferences for those other subjects felt as nearer, as kinsmen, as
>>relatives.
Marius Fimbria dixit:
>"Cultural Preference"...the kind of thing that says 'All else being
>equal, we'd rather nuke China than Russia 'cause at least the Russians
>are EUROPEANS'...?
M. Prometheus
I assure you I would not nuke either.
Cultural preference means more attention to some themes and to some people
Also I fully agree to the N R openess to people of every origin, race,
color, sex
and religion (provided they respect roman religion).
It does not even mean that if once a single Inuit (Eschimo) or Australian
Aborigenal,
or Bushmen from Namibia will join Nova Roma and I will happen to know him
and like him I could'nt become quickly his best and deepest friend, better
than older NR friends, because
I'll be so pleasantly surprised from his appreciation of the culture I
appreciate
(he coming from further away from that culture ) that I could give him a lot
of positive attention
(again one other form of cultural preference.)
Cultural preference meant for me in present N R situation to accept one more
thread
the TIMOR one for some more reasons: Appreciation for Antonio Grillo who
introduced the thread, love for freedom AND cultural closeness deeply felt
from me for all NEOLATINS.
I don't want to throw out the non neo-latins from NR (provided they respect
Roma & NOVA ROMA)
I want to bring in good armony more neo-latins (provided they respect Roma
& NOVA ROMA)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
Marius Fimbria dixit:
>...the perversion of the basic urge to 'flock together' into something
>that demonizes all who are 'not like us'?
Not to you, not to me either, we both flocked together in NR with good
intentions only I believe.
Perhaps we wanted to elevate ourselves to some spiritual and cultural heigth
reached by Classic culture,
If so, in my humble opinion it is possible but incoherent exclude ourselves
from the (partial) heirs of that culture, and from some of their present
pligths. Remember Timor ? Bad news today too.
One fourth of the population (as "seen on TV") is said to have flocked out
of their houses hunted for reasons
keeping in large part from their being (and freely feeling) neolatin
malay-lusitans, thing deemed unacceptable by they aggressors. They
aggressors are demonizing those who are not like us.
I am not demonizing anybody, but in case I would demonize just the
intolerant aggressors.
Really I have seen some barbaric scenes of aggresion on TV did'nt you?
Marius Fimbria:
>...the motivating force behind so much racism, the unhealthier
>varieties of nationalism, 'ethnic cleansings' and other barbarities?
>I don't know your age or how much you have experienced of how the world
>conducts its affairs, but I have seen a *lot* of atrocity done in the
>name of "cultural preference". Signore, if by that term you meant
>something far milder than what my mind associates with it, please
>clarify.
Marcus Prometheus:
I am sure that spiritually we were both always on the side of the
aggressed.
Were not the Timorese the aggressed, but the aggressor, even if I feel they
are
part of my same neo-latin family I would'nt have asked solidariety with
them.
Family it's ok, but I don't mean Mafia's family.
So I am sure we are clarifying in good faith.
Marius Fimbria:
>>And perhaps once will lobby East Timor government to vote
>>at the United Nations in favour of Nova Roma being recognized as
>>sovereign entity.
>I'd like to see that, too, for NR's *and* East Timor's sakes...but
>let's leave the wormwood of 'cultural preference' out of it, shall
>we...?
Why ? if we clarified all and if I am always at your disposal,
ready to clarify even deeper, of course most respectfully and with
full appreciation of your scruples and of your part in building a worth N R
Let us do not love only the marbles, but also the people !
I only spook of something more, of adding, of including, not of hating.
I am not afraid of being policed on these themes by people like you
certainly in good faith, thing for which I sincerely thank you
GRATIAS TIBI AGO
VALE BENE M. FIMBRIA.
VALETE CIVES OMNES.
AD MAIORA
Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
Trying to be part of the solution, not of the problem.
OOPS ! I thougt I was at the end of Marius Fimbria Message
but I find more!
>>Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
>>
>>Defending the LIMES of Roman civilization
>>and of their more modest neolatin heirs too
>
>Even 'Magna Roma' can only spread Herself so thin before the notion of
>'frontier' becomes completely useless.
>
>>in provincia DACIA ROMANIA, and now
>>in EAST TIMOR among malay pirates !
>
>There's the demonization already... What if one of those 'Malay
>pirates' should happen to apply for Citizenship?! (Just last summer
>someone was afraid to refer her friend to Nova Roma because the friend
>was *black*!)
NO, NO, NO demonization in bulk, sorry I didn't want.
I'll explain myself fully.
1) If a malay pirate applies for NR citzenship I vote in favour, he would
not be certainly a bad pirate
but a sensible art and culture lover worth of all our appreciation and
special attention for the effort to join NR
and its values.
This of course excludes absolutely the criminal thugs seen on TV aggressing
innocent unarmed people for being suspected to be part of the 78% of people
wanting to remain neolatin and independent. This excludes those aggressing
United Nations personnel trying to help the same innocent people. This
exludes those aggressing europeans american and australian jurnalists,
western jurnalists in general on the scene guilty of documenting the
crimes.
This excludes those aggressing chinese minorities because China sides this
time with freedom.
2) MALAY PIRATES in ITALY, my country are a positive mythe ! Yes, you in
America probably have never heard about EMILIO SALGARI a great writer of
literary soap operas of last century, appreciated by childs and
grown ups. His main hero was SANDOKAN, a positive hero, a fredom figther
against the Raja of Borneo and
British gunship. SANDOKAN was the raja of imaginary island of MOMPRACEM and
was dispossessed
by lord Brooke (but loved his daughter ) , so he became a pirate and was
helped by a PORTUGUESE named YANEZ to win back Mompracem and his love.
I wrote " among malay pirates " NOT "against" malay pirates, and I
repeat in italian imaginary from many Salgari's tens of books, then mute
films, then color films, then TV films etc. malay pirates are allied of the
portuguese and freedom figthers for their dispossessed land, just like the
TIMORESE.
The main book of all the Salgari's literature is SANDOKAN & MALAY PIRATES.
It was like writing by instance "together with Zorro", nothing negative.
3) Pirate is absolutely not a term bad enough to describe the criminal
murderers of innocent people of TIMOR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Marius Fimbria
>I trust my fellow Quirites have kept up with the times and have a
>greatly-expanded notion of what is and is not 'like us'. In this we
>have triumphed over the narrowness of our ancestors, who for centuries
>did not even deem fellow-Italians fit to be Citizens.
Marcus Prometheus:
Again, my dear good Marius, I think like you, always,
Rome was too slow to accept plebeians in politics
and to give citzenship to Italians (and paid it with civil war )
Marius Fimbria:
The expansion of
>Roman Citizenship from 'City-of-Rome-born Patricians' to 'every
>free-born male in the Empire' took almost a thousand years and was one
>of ancient Rome's greatest achievements.
M. Prometheus: Who could'nt agree ?
Marius Fimbria:
Nova Roma has capped this by
>admitting women to full civil rights, and by abolishing slavery, and by
>considering 'the Empire' (for purposes of moral support) to include
>anyplace with even a single Citizen dwelling there.
M. Prometheus: Who could disagree ?
Marius Fimbria:
>There is no racial, cultural, or religious requirement to join NR.
>'All that is required is a love of all things Roman.'
M. Prometheus: Who could disagree ?
Marius Fimbria:
To the extent
>'cultural preference' has a place at all, it is exercised by the
>applicants who see in our micronation something to which they feel
>kinship.
M. Prometheus: Who could disagree ?
This is E X A C T L Y my position.
GRATIAS TIBI AGO
I could not have said it better.
Marius Fimbria:
NOT in our picking and choosing who we'd rather have for
>neighbors...
M. Prometheus: Who could disagree ? Not me!
This is E X A C T L Y my position.
I am strongly in favour of accepting even extra galactic aliens
and even if their external aspect is not apollinean
PROVIDED THEY SINCERELY RESPECT
ROMAN CULTURAL VALUES , and RELIGIO ROMANA
AS STATED BY THE NOVA ROMA CONSTITUTION
old and new.
I am against accepting extra galactic aliens future applicants
showing negative prejudice
against Roman marbles AND roman or neo-roman,
or neo-latin peoples.
Still I will be in favour if they do promit in good faith to civilize
themselves and subsequently do it.
Sincerely happy to agree so deeply with you Lucius Marius Fimbria
I confess I appreciete also your Roman Symbols made Emoticon Art.
I think you also teached me the closing formula which created the
italo-american cultural misunderstanding with malay pirates:
Were not you that wrote: DEFENDING.....IN TEXAS ?
So, if you accept me, Yours too under the same eagles.
Marcus
Prometheus
. . . . . . . . .
.. .
I am in favor of admitting unconditionally only horses YAHOO !
signed Gulliver. (I approve signed Caligula)
: - ) ) )))))))
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re: Timor) |
| From: |
Michael Marconi roma@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:05:25 -0400 |
|
Let us not forget that during the early and middle republic the Romans were
very racial or at least very territorial. The senate openly objected the
idea that non-Romans be granted citizenship. Their reason - the various
ethnic peoples, non-Romans, were thought to be more loyal to their
tribe/homeland than to Rome herself. Which turned out to be true - the later
Roman army, at least 90%, was not only not Roman but neither Italic. The
racially mixed Roman army saw itself having allegiance more so to their
non-Roman/Italic generals than to Rome. They fought more for booty and
personal gain, a barbarian trait, than for Rome. They saw themselves to be
less Roman, but still considered themselves Roman, in name only, in the
hopes of regaining some of her lost glory.
hadji wrote:
> From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
>
> Salve Mario Fimbria
>
> I would like to thank you. You have said something not very pleasant,
> but which needed to be said.
> As a NON LATIN citizen I am always quite terrified, when somebody on NR
> forums begins to use such a dark and not exactly terms as "Latin
> brotherhood", "Cultural Preferences", "Romanitas", "Civilization
> missions" etc etc.
> An year ago when I have seen NR site for the first time, my very first
> thought was: "Isn't it another neo-fascist group?" Only 50 years ago
> there was another "restitutor" of Rome in Europe. Yes, I mean Mussolini
> and his mad vissions of restored Rome. If there are still neo-nazists in
> Germany, why there mustn't be ducce followeres in Italy? Try to imagine
> what kind of slogans such a "Romans" would like to use? For you
> (Americans) it is probably nothing than rediculas story, but on Balkans
> the Greeks, Albanians and Serbians remember quite well all the terrific
> attrocities made by Mussolini's Neo-ROMAN "civilizators".
> I ask very strongly our Cenzors and you as a list moderator not to allow
> NR forums to be used for racist propaganda under the banners of
> "Latinity" and "Romanitas". NR is a modern organisation, open for
> everyone in this world, without any ethnic, culural, national or
> religious prejustices. Just few months ago the middle asians were called
> "barbarians", few days ago there were offences on Russians, today we
> have heard about "malayas pirates". Who will be the next? Jews, Asians,
> Africians, or simply everybody who looks or think in a different way? If
> NR is a "neo-latin" organisation, me personaly have nothing to do there
> and to correspond with "neo-latins (fascists)".
> I do appreciate the value of ancient Rome too.
> But I would like shortly to count few events in the history of my native
> Balkan lands and the common denominator is a "Latin civilization
> missions"
> - What have happend with the same Corinth, where the liberty of Hellada
> was proclaimed by Flaminius and only few years later in the 1st cent.
> BC?
> - What did the Normans have looking for on the Balkans during the 11-12
> cent?
> - Is there anybody who still think that the "glorious" crussaders were
> honestly buying everything they needed from the local people or they
> simply kill, rape and robber the lands they passed through?
> -Where finished the IV crossade and all the ancient treasuries from
> Constantinopolis?
> - Why the museums in Athens, Thesaloniki, Sofia are so poor compared
> with the British, Luvre etc world's museums. Who is the "barbarian" here
> - that one who robbed the treasuries of a given land using its weakness
> or descendents of people who had created those treaseries?
>
> And one more note about East Timor. After Cosovo, I do not believe to
> any medias campaigns. I am not sure the facts and commentars served to
> us are the full and only true. I have no possibility to hear directly
> Indonesian's possition and to create my own opinion so thatswhy I
> prefere to be quiet on that topic. But I think it is always better
> everyone (every country) to resolve his (its) problems alone and without
> foreign tutors. If they are not able to resolve their problems alone,
> it means foreigners surely can not help them.
> May be I am wrong, who knows?
>
> Valete
>
> Alexander Iul. Caes. probus Mac.
>
> From: Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
> Subject: Cultural Preference...? (was: Re: Timor... OnTopic)
>
> Salvete omnes:
>
> Signore Guasti,
>
> You pose a good set of questions for Nova Roma's (very) long-term
> consideration; however, some of them carry some very disturbing
> implications for those of us raised to believe that *every* human being
> is precious, regardless of nationality or creed: most especially the
> following...
> ---
> >Why NR migth not have a politic of cultural preference ?
> >Isn't a micronation ? Well nations, even micronations can have a
> >foreign politic, especially a foreign cultural policy, a politicy of
> >preferences for those other subjects felt as nearer, as kinsmen, as
> >relatives.
>
> "Cultural Preference"...the kind of thing that says 'All else being
> equal, we'd rather nuke China than Russia 'cause at least the Russians
> are EUROPEANS'...?
>
> ...the perversion of the basic urge to 'flock together' into something
> that demonizes all who are 'not like us'?
>
> ...the motivating force behind so much racism, the unhealthier
> varieties of nationalism, 'ethnic cleansings' and other barbarities?
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re:Cultural Prejudice & Timor |
| From: |
"Marco Guasti" fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:04:20 +0300 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: RMerullo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:36 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Romanitas was Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re:
Timor)
>From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>Just as barbarity is not inherited, I believe that Romanitas also is not
>passed along by generations, neither genetically (.................)
M. Prometheus:
I fully agree that Romanitas or barbarity are not inherited genetically
I do defend positions which belong to me, not any other strange theories.
please do not attribute them to me it's incorrect.
As for education, my opinion is that as lack of education or bad education
transmits barbarity, some Civility can be passed through good education.
I defended Timorese because they are rigth, I put more goodwill because I
feel them
culturally related, I would not lobby for them if they were the aggressors.
There is nothing wrong in it, or not ?
>>From: "RMerullo"
>Nothing against Italian, Hispanic or other "neolatin" cultures intended;
>but to equate these cultures with the Romans is a little inaccurate, isn't
it?
Marcus Prometheus: I fully agree and I never said or hinted somthing like
that
I never EQUATED I hinted kinship of language and/or sligth ancestry for
some
of us who have it and/or feel it as being among the legitimate motives of
reviving Roman Culture, of feeling a duty for it , of being proud of it
(without any exclusion or even superiority
face to others who arrive at the same conclusions without these reasons)
I do defend only positions which belong to me, it is very inaccurate to
enlarge monstruosly what I said to ridicule it. (Quantity is also a
Quality).isn't it?
R. Merullo
Where are all the Stoics, the temples to Iuppiter, Mars and Minerva?
>What do Roman virtues mean in the countries dominated by those cultures?
>Far less, I think, than catholic mores, redemption through confession and
>regular attendance of masses. Not that there aren't many virtuous people
in
>all those countries, and everywhere else, but I'm talking about Roman
>virtues.
Marcus Prometheus:
It looks like we migth welcome coolly neolatin NR applicants (even present
pagan ones)
just because our ancestors lost faith in Religio Romana. So what ?
Lets educate others (if they accept), Do not discriminate negatively.
Do I am strange if I believe that some of the positive glory of somebody's
ancestors (just some) can be kindly recognized to their descendents, while
I have the simple good mannered habit of NOT reproaching the sons for the
fathers
behaviour? Do I am strange if having abandoned catholicism at the age
of 16 I don't feel any guilty in front of religio romana North American
proponents
which ask me "where are the temples" and "where are the stoics"
It's irrelevant, but we have some pagans, some small, mostly private
temples, and some
stoics in Italy too, (and Epicureans too etc etc.) And as for me I consider
not myself primarly a Stoic or exclusively a Stoic,but anyway I am on two
Stoics lists.
So, everybody knows what he does, and I am not the bigot to measure
aggressively other friendly people's commitment .
R. Merullo:
>If one argues that language is the more important determinant factor, then
>just consider that Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are different languages.
>Portuguese speakers may often understand the others, but this does not
>generally work bidirectionally. And without mutual intelligibility, it is
>untenable to argue that they are one language.
M Prometheus:
I never argued that " language is the more important determinant factor"
of what ??????
I just asked for a friendly neighborhood, some empathy for neo-latins who
feel their languages a further link to ROME.
Nobody forbids you to ask some empathy or special attention by example for
those coming from places furthest away from traditional Classic world
To encourage new ideas I do offer an annual subscription to the Eagle to
the first Tibetan who will join NR (triple Hurrah for free Tibet).
Do you think I asked too much ? Is a friendly neighborhood too much for
neolatins?
Are we just tolerated until we don' t remember our origins.
Do we have unsound origins as for N R parametres ?
Is it open for all but better not to speack until you arn't a redneck?
As for languages bidirectionality its absolutely irrelevant,
but well I am also BI, no, not Bisex,
Bidirectional, even DECAdirectional, I read and understood
(newspapers, poetry and prose in all written neolatin languages.
R Merullo:
>To argue that Hispanics, Italians, Portuguese and other modern
nationalities
>ARE Romans is to issue a double historical insult, both to the specified
>modern nationality, which in every case has many centuries of post-Roman
>shared history, and to Roma Antiqua, whose history, in my view, is special
>partly because it laid a foundation for those later ones.
M. Prometheus: ??????????? insult ?????????
R Merullo:
>The insult is compounded and transformed into nationalist supremacy theory
>if one takes the position that the Roman is the superman, the ideal. I
>myself do believe that Romanitas is an ideal for which one can strive; but
>I recognize that the ethnic components of Romanitas are long dead. Let's
>not try to re-write history too much here. The so-called barbarians came
in
>and broke up the weakening empire, a hell of a long time ago. Where once
>there were Romans, there were Franks, Lombards, Angles and many many other
>peoples, who just weren't Romans.
M. Prometheus: first WHO ever spoke of supremacy theories?
second, Let's not try to rewrite biology either: I don't say that anybody
has
something like "pure roman blood of the first century after the foundation
of Rome" but I do say with very strong voice that we are all so mixed up
that if somebody in half the world says has *some* roman ancestry I do
believe he is actually scientifically correct, and if somebody of definitely
others colours in the other half of the world says the same I believe it as
well for a lot of reasons practical and sentimental: 1) It is absolutely
biologically possible that he has "SOME" minor Roman ancestry, I know some
of my ancestors, he knows better his.
2) It is an honour for me that he appreciates our possible kinship,
biological or cultural so that he mentions it to me. In my catholic school I
learned that spirit is superior to matter, (after, at 16 I understood they
must not be opposite) but still I give some extra credit to the spirit.
3) I am not a biological racist I don't feel dishonoured from his claim.
Once I read that in North America whites considered black everybody which
had a single drop
of black blood while in Brasil blacks & whites considered themselves almost
all white as they
almost all had at least one drop of white color. Well, (besides the dignity
of being black 100%which I certainly accept too) , I feel like Brasilians
in this matter : who has a drop of roman blood can claim to be of roman
ancestry, and my kinship too.
R Merullo:
>In other words, let's have an end to the fascist crap, please.
M. Prometheus:
I also recommend, lets have an end to this "finesse" please.
In my modest opinion it does'nt appare that you demonstrated
to have discovered any .................... let's better to say
anything morally criticable.
R. Merullo
>For centuries now, Roma has lived only in history, and through its legacy.
>We are trying to build Nova Roma, a new micronation that emulates the
>elements of Roma that we value most. But we are not trying to
>recruit/aid/support those people around the world whose genetic makeup most
>closely resembles C Iulius Caesar's. In our civic lives in our native
>nations or countries of residence, we can certainly embrace any cause, but
>that has nothing to do with Nova Roma.
Marcus Prometheus:
Does anti neo-latin prejudice have anything to do with Nova Roma either?
Antonius Grillus which I deeply respect posted just a single time a message
requesting
(just for those willing to help) some lobby very very justifiable from
humanitarian ground.
in favour of TIMOR. (following posts were answers to intelligent questions
sometimes, or malevolent attacks more often, not repetitions of the Timor
appeal to bother you any more).
Under criticism, honoured Antonius Grillo had to explain better that he is
interested in the Timor problem also because he has close friends there.
Well, I remember (and appreciated too) some posts of solidariety for a dog,
on this list .
The dog was the deceased friend of a NR citzen. Also I read some others
posts about suggesting a name to one other puppy. also dear to a good NR
citzen.
Of course nobody complained, and many contributed.
Now why are some citzens so intolerant to the posts in favour of the human
friends of other citzens?
Just because Antonius Grillus and I explained that among the many reasons we
feel to have to try to help TIMOR there is one more i.e. that we believe
Timorese portuguese speakers are neolatin relatives to us .
Yes, we are two people who feel that that kinship. It is not an exclusive
link, we are mostly polytheistic on this list, (and I am many other poly...
too).
We all want to respect the openess of NOVA ROMA constitution
NOVA ROMA must be open to everybody, who ever said or even just hinted the
contrary?
I never asked any precedence, never dreamed, just some MORE opennes, a
kindness
welcoming neolatins willing to do their part, but bringing also some of
their themes, of their issues. LEGITIMALLY, without any obligation to the
others.
I asked just a friendly neighborhood. In my modest opinion our issues are
not spam.
In the Nova Roma building there are many rooms, and many people with many
fields of interests, not to be adoptedcompulsorily by everyone, so why not
also some neo latins issues?
I'ts a new opening, not a closure. Of course if you want us neolatins too!
WHY could you not understand that there is nothing exclusivist in my
requests?
I feel emphaty for Antonius Grillo because I liked his previous posts,
always cooperative, never part of the problem, always part of the solution,
Also I felt empathy because I love Portugal and Lisboa, and Lusidad, and I
feel he is my cultural relative through our common neolatin heritage, but I
appreciate also Marius Fimbria which is from America perhaps for other
reasons, Why not?
I appreciate him because he is also a very good and cooperative N R citzen,
and also because he is an american Taxpayer, and american Taxpayers did a
lot for Europe (Marshall plan etc) and for freedom, and I I will find
empathy with somebody else because.......I dont know, and I will find great
empathy with the NOVA ROMAN most different from me just because he is so
different, BUT STILL HE HAS SOME COMMON GROUND WITH ME. etc etc.......
So, if you can be GOOD NOVA ROMAN AND love dogs and speack sometimes
on the NR list of canine issues if you have canine friends and canine
empathies, then , could you please
explain me why somebody cannot speack sometimes of his neolatin friends
in deep trouble without being suspected of horrible crimes and being obliged
to explain repeatedly that we can love both dogs and neolatin timorese
people, both marbles and people (sorry really for those bored ) but I was
obliged to repeat too often that I never wrote, hinted or thougth anything
polithically incorrect which is attributed to my intentions: I never
meant to exclude anybody or to exterminate anybody or to ask any seniority
or to be superman or or to nuke China.
Or sombody has perhaps some ANTI NEO LATIN PREJUDICE ?
Wouldn't be legitimate to think so if there is nothing morally criticable
(rationally and ethically) based on what actually was said from myself or
from Antonius Grillus ( not based on inventions or maliciously attributed
intentions).
Why to criticize me, my deepest opponents have to resort to link something I
have said, absolutely innocent, with something else, never said and morally
despisable ?
Can this be done in good faith ? Is it intellectual honesty ? Roman
Dignitas ? Cultural elevation ?
I do accept every possible criticism made in good faith and regarding
morality, polithically correctitude, cultural honesty, and respect of the
openess of N R Constitution (old and new) and of NR laws, please, at this
stage I do invite such criticism BUT ONLY IF BASED ON SOMETHING I ACTUALLY
WROTE.
The so called "Trial of intentions" is in reality a witch hunt, inacceptable
bigotry, stubborn prejudice, and demonstrates only the weackness of the
opponent's arguments.
Habeas Corpus ! Accuse me for what I actually said, nothing else.
Or stop being allergically intolerant to reasonable neo-latin humanitarian
and political rigth issues
please.
Or realize you could beginning to have an identity problem attracting new
CIVES from neo latin
countries.
Is that you want ? Only the marbles, not the people?
Not too different from barbarian invaders who wanted only gold,
Do you want a Nova Roma without any resident in Rome except some American
tourists in transit ?
A Nova Roma where somebody wrote he is terrorized when he hears about
Romanitas ?
Yes, exactly these words, (No, not from Merullo).
If I am not desired, you are still in time, I am not yet recognized as a
citizen of NR
Since my early childhood I considered that CIVIS ROMANUS SUM. Also I am
Italian and since one year Romanian citizen. Since when I was 16 I
preferred old Religio Romana to Vatican religion. I assumed my roman names
when I was 19. and proud of it.
As for my crimes, I confess, I sinned since childhood
1) I felt a bit " ich bin Ein Berliner " when I heard it from President
Kennedy, when I was just a child,
2) I felt a little like a " Boy of Pal Street " and an Hungarian heroic
barbarian in 1956 when I read of Budapest resistence to the Soviets
and...............................
and to stop boring I feel now a little Lusitanian Timorese. Is it morally
wrong ? Is it unroman ?
VALETE
Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
|
| Subject: |
(no subject) |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:13:56 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete!
Doing a bit of reading lately, I came across a rather
interesting Roman god. Just out of curiosity, does
anyone have as a gens deity the god Sterculinus?
Valete!
L. Licinius Varro Murena
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://auctions.yahoo.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
ATTN: Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:54:10 +0100 |
|
Salvete cives
As requested, I've already uploaded the voting results file into the Nova
Roma file area of Onelist. The name of the file is 'Suffragia CPlebis
Tributa.doc'.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
|
| Subject: |
Test |
| From: |
James Mathews jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:15:35 +0000 |
|
This is a message to see if I can send out yet, with the new computer
MMAudens
|
| Subject: |
Re: Test |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:47 +0100 |
|
Received!!!
Graecus
-----Original Message-----
From: Jam--------ath--------<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196061130152150" >jmath669642r----------------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 12:59 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Test
>From: Jam--------ath--------<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196061130152150" >jmath669642r----------------</a>
>
>This is a message to see if I can send out yet, with the new computer
>
>MMAudens
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Show your ONElist SPIRIT!
><a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2</a> ">Click Here</a>
>With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Timor in Praeferentbus Culturaliis |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:35:47 PDT |
|
Salutem, Quiritibus!
Scripsit Merullus:
>For centuries now, Roma has lived only in history, and through its legacy.
>We are trying to build Nova Roma, a new micronation that emulates the
>elements of Roma that we value most. But we are not trying to
>recruit/aid/support those people around the world whose genetic makeup most
>closely resembles C Iulius Caesar's. In our civic lives in our native
>nations or countries of residence, we can certainly embrace any cause, but
>that has nothing to do with Nova Roma.
>
>As for the notion that Nova Roma should engage in foreign policy, I wonder
>how and exacly why anyone would propose to do that, since Nova Roma has 317
>citizens and is not recognized by a single nation state. We just survived
>a
>revolution from above and are just beginning to build our institutions.
>Our
>first ever constitutional assembly has just finished electing our first
>constitutionally elected magistrate. Our policy must be to survive and
>grow. There is nothing else that we can do right now that has even the
>remotest relevance to relations among the established nation states.
Et ego respondeo:
Bene Hercle dictum'st, Merulle! (Well said, Merullus!): Romans are wherever
one finds them (and one is lucky when one does). We are all, I think, very
fortunate to have found each other.
And (referring to what Alex. Iul. Caes. Probus said on the subject): I too,
when I first came across Nova Roma, wondered whether it was neo-Fascist (a
quick read of the Website showed me it wasn't, of course). But it shows
that, as neo-Romans, we have much work to do to restore the integrity of
Rome's sacred motifs from the recent historic taint of racism and
totalitarianism.
As Merullus says, the best contribution we can make in this way is to
survive and grow, before we even think about involving ourselves in world
politics.
And I cannot see how this thread is doing anything to help East Timor at
all.
Valete bene in pace Romana,
Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: (mixing the terms) was Re: Cultural preferences...(long and too boring) |
| From: |
hadji hadji@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:43:13 +0200 |
|
Salve Marco Prometheus,
I would like to ask you not to mix the terms in your messages. It is
absolutely OK what Antonius Gryllus have written about East Timor.
Simply it was his duty to do that and I appreciate his (and yours too)
possition about that problem. What I can not appreciate are your
comments addressed to different ethnics. All of them were made from the
very insulting patronizing possition.
I would like to refresh your memory and to ask you few questions:
You have said in July (I do not remember the exact day, but it is not so
difficult to be found in the list archives) according to European
Provinces discussion that:
- moslims dream only for the Profit and will never have an interest to
join NR,
- applying for involvment NR into Moldavian frontier problems, you have
described Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians and Hungarians as barbarians
"cultivated" by their Roumanian neighbours (understand more civilized,
because of their language origin). Haven't you said that "among
barbarians there are more barbarians" with the meaning that "barbarian"
Russians are not enough "barbarian" compared to middle Asians.
I ask you: Who gave you the right to speak instead of moslims? Who gave
you the right to generalize any nation?
Few days ago you said:
<<Until ten years ago when there was an iron courtain your miles manned
the LIMES facing barbarians commies.(You still keep them out of the
LIMES bribing their chieftains like king BORIuS ELTSINIUS of
Sarmatia, ok the gold of the Rhine - provincia Germania - contributed
largely too)>>
Where do you see any Limes in the world and Europe between "civilized
provinces" and Barbaricum? Is that means that you as Italian (westerner)
consider yourself as more civilized than "the other ones out of the
Limes". It is pleasantly of course to consider your own nation as a top
of the cultural development and your own person as great defender of the
cultural achievmens, but you like very much to speak humanity, culture
etc etc. Try to read your messages again and compare them with the
dozens of pages you wrote yesterday. There are some differences, aren't
they?
Another cite from you:
<<A Nova Roma where somebody wrote he is terrorized when he hears about
Romanitas ? Yes, exactly these words, (No, not from Merullo).>>
OK, I will be very direct. You use terms with a very vast and unclear
meaning. Applying for Romanitas "Latin brotherhood" (a term of yours)
etc and generalizing some nations as barbarians is quite strange, isn't
it? Especially for citizens with non-latin origin. It is very possibly
that I am too suspicious. OK it is still better to be suspicious than to
insult any ethnic background.
If I was alergic to Rome and Romaitas in its cultural meaning, than I
will be not a member of this organization. I appreciate ANCIENT ROME,
but still can not understand what this "Latinity" you so frequently talk
about means and what it has with ancient Rome. Be so kind and explain me
please.
And as for insults:
<<M. Prometheus: ??????????? insult ?????????
2) I felt a little like a " Boy of Pal Street " and an Hungarian
heroic barbarian in 1956 when I read of Budapest resistence to the
Soviets
and...............................>>
How you can not understand that the only person you can call barbarian
without insulting him is your own ego?
The same is valid for characterizing any nation or ethnic.
Now you speak about Hungarian barbarians. It is really pity there are no
Hungarians on this list, but I very wonder if they will find your words
as polite and correct. Why you NEVER speak about Italian or Latin
barbarians? Are there no barbarians in Italy or Roumania?
I have got a regula : if I speak for another country I NEVER use
negative associations. The only country or ethnic which I have got the
right to criticize is my own. Is it so difficult to you to understand
that.
And as for our future Anuit or Australian bushes citizens , which you
wrote about, I am not very sure if they will welcome your patronizing
cares and will appreciate the great benevolence of "true pure Latin and
Roman" citizen as you surely are. I think all of them will always prefer
to be considered as equal and full right citizens not as exotic second
hand exceptions. I will be very surprized if anyone will welcome your 6
$ present for the Eagle subscription.
Vale
Alexander Iul. Caes. Probus Mac.
Non-Latin Nova Roma citizen
P.S. Why some of world languages (Latin origin) need to be prefered in
NR instead of others?
<<< Marcus Prometheus... Italians since birth , Roumanian since last
year...
Also I guess if it would be possible to translate all or some of the
N R website pages in most other neolatin languages (and in latin
too), so that more neolatin and latin loving people can consult them.
In the future some Occitanic and Aragonese enthusiast
could translate in Provencal and Catalan too.
Among european peoples one which loves and finds a lot of kinship with
ROME is the good polish people, so if somebody.....>>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Romanitas was Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re: Timor) |
| From: |
"Marco Guasti" fresco@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:29:06 +0300 |
|
-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Romanitas was Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re:
Timor)
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>I totally missed this thread but from what I have seen of it...yes, keep
the
>racial bullshit out of NR!
Marcus Prometheus
You have seen absolutely NOTHING MORALLY WRONG.
I have nothing to do with blood racism, with bulls, with ...........
If you are interested in the last ...... item perhaps you could follow a
new thread launced by JSA - VarroMurena - no subject - dedicated to GOD
STERCULINUS. ; - ))
Dexippus:
> We may all consider ourselves Roman because we
>strive for the same ideals as our "ancestors" did...but it's definately not
a
>blood tie. Hell, I'm Italian and I'm not running around claiming Emperor's
>Blood in my vains!
Marcus Prometheus:
(My chosen name is Prometheus, not Marcus ATTILA,
Commodus or Constantine, not even Augustus or Caesar
does it say anything about my good intentions to you?)
I'm sure you know better than me that Promeheus was
a very nice chap, very libertarian and humanitarian.
; - )))))))
Also I prefer Consuls and Republic to Emperors, so your criticism
cannot apply to me unless you produce a single line demonstrating
I lie now.
Dexippus
>There was so much intermarriage at one point in Rome's history that any
"pure
>blood" would have been diluted. From that, perhaps all Europeans can (ever
>so slightly) claim Roman descendancy regardless of Latin-based origin or
>Celtic or otherwise....the point is - WHO KNOWS?
Marcus Prometheus:
I absolutely do agree (convince yourself I said the very same thing with
almost the very same words in a previous answer to R Merullo)
Dexippus:
AND WHO CARES?
Prometheus?
perhaps somebody cares just a little bit and only in a positive way.
I feel some more reasons of attention, of empathy to some more "cathegories
of the spirit" like to those akin to me ( to those NEARER),
This does not implies:
That you too must comform, I never said it must be obbligatory or exclusive
This does not implies further:
That I am not attracted also (more or less) to even the contrary cathegory
of spirit: When I teached I empathized somebody because he come from
furthest away.
Dexippus
>I truly hope NR will not follow the ridiculous path that so many other
>reconstructionist Pagan organizations are following...that is ideas of
racial >purity. And I am not talking specifically of Asatru groups either!
There
>are groups based in Greece and Italy as well as Iceland and Norway that are
calling for Pagan Revivalism but only for their own "countrymen "Roman".
Prometheus: I do subscribe and fully agree. If we can discern a sense
in Roman history this is NOT EXCLUSION but
INCLUSION, in the CIVitas . THIS was called CIVI-lization.
I agree that the romans in some moments exceeded by far with exclusion,
while in others exceeded in unconditioned inclusion of others
(barbarian mercenaries almost exclusive inclusion, and lazy exclusion of
themselves and Italians from armed service, and paid it dearly ).
But even philosophically some measure of exclusion is necessary to define
yourself.
Speaking of civilizations this does not mean that it cannot be done with
respect of the other and giving a big chance of progressive inclusion too.
This inclusion must be just a little bit conditioned to others respecting us
AND our values.
So I do also somehow agree with good Atticus who from Brasil which wrote
that one of the things defining the Latin way of thinking is (quote) the
idea of fines (limits). This begins with the foundation myth, when Romulus
de-fined the limits of the City and killed his brother for not respecting
it. Quoting Umberto Eco (in: "La Linea e il Labirinto: le Strutture del
Pensiero Latino"), the ideology of the PAx Romana and the potilical thought
of Augustus are based upon the necessity of defining frontiers.
When the notion of fines lost its importance in the Roman Empire,
the barbarian tribes imposed their nomadic view and praxis and invaded Rome.
So, with Horatius poeta, "sunt certi denique fines". There are limits.
There are Romans and barbarians ways of thinking. If we strive to rebuild
Roma, we have to admit them. Of course the policy of language and thoughts
doesn't allow one to say that Malaysians are barbarians and Italians are
civilized, but I can't help making personal choices. These come with
identity, the Nova Roman identity, for what is identity if not selecting
values and thoughts? (unquote)
Marcus Prometheus:
BUT in my modest opinion, I repeat , the most important part was not and
must not to be the exclusion, but the positive INCLUSION.
With all the mistakes made, Rome substantially more often DID IT and
arrived to be loved, accepted, remembered by the many, descendants of
Romans and local Barbarians DACIANS like here in ROMANIA because they felt
at a certain moment fully INCLUDED. They called here this CIVILIZATION, and
being included in the european family.
There is anything wrong in remembering this kinship ?
Or in doing so in the framework of N R too ?
Or in the case of the TIMORESE neolatin malays, what is wrong in remembering
that they are being massacred just because they love freedom, and majority
will (78 % voted for independence under oppression and fisical barbarian
aggression of local thugs criminal militias).
But as they are massacred also because they feel different from nearby malay
indonesians because they are neolatins, what is wrong if the neolatins on
the list sympathize?
Antonio Grillo wrote IF ROMAN LUSITANIA never existed neither the present
TIMOR difference would.
I add that while we cannot say somebody is barbarian because of descent,
yet sometimes we can say somebody is barbarian because of barbarian acts.
If we speack of populations especially if run by dictatorships this would
not apply to those who could not express themselves freely but just to the
thugs.
Dexippus
I say RASPBERRIES to them all! Roman culture, religion, and
>virtues transcended racial and national lines...this should be the ideal!
I do agree fully that Roman culture, religion and virtues trascended
(past)and trascend (now) racial and national lines, and that is very
desirable (ideal) that they keep doing so even in the future, but they
happened in history, they were incarnated in people, in nations, not in
pure spirit in extraa galactic spaces or in paradise, and are having
consequences even now, see the Timorese case, and others in other places
too, like in MOLDAVIAN TRANSNISTRIA for a group of 4 heroes condemmed to
death by comunist soviets just because they are and want to remain Romanian
speakers (but this is one other complex story) .
So why not to side with the aggressed, with the freedom seeker,
(not with the oppressor) ? Or at least stay quiet if not interested ?
Why to over-react histerically allergically, unpolitely if some of your NOVA
ROMA fellows lobbies for them ? (Why instead of merely fellows could not we
be friends if good faith and politeness find some way?)
If somebody feels some kinship that you dont feel why is he wrong ?
What is wrong if (without compelling others to do the same)
he expresses its solidariety on the list ? is it Spam ?
Nobody reacted against dogs friends on the list, Why hysterical reactions to
neolatins friends to some of us massacrated because they are just a little
bit contaminated by a neo latin language?
Neolatin languages are not legitimate sons of Latin ?
And Latin Language is not at all linked to Roman culture?
May be unpolitness and Raspberries are identifiable with
Latin virtues, Pietas, Dignitas, or with NOVA ROMA more than love for
oppressed cultural kinsmen?
Is too much to ask for a friendly neigborhood ?
Do I have to start to ask for something less, like just a not too much
unfriendly neighborhood ?
Sure it would be a progress face to the present status of some
reactions, unbased intolerant and worth of witch hunting, but for the
DIGNITAS et IUSTITIA in Nova Roma ambiance
I will trust your goowill, good faith and capacity tu understand, and so I
keep asking for the maximum goal: a friendly neighborhood.
Please ! : - )
Vale Dexippus et Valete cives omnes!
Sincerly and trusfully yours under the Roman Eagles
Marcus Prometheus Decius Golia
Marco is part of my Italian legal name, Prometheus my god of Liberty,
Decius (from provencal Dez -Alea- the middle ages god of chance, and
Golia the god of european students medioeval traditions)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Romanitas was Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re: Timor) |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:37:09 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/10/99 9:15:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
writes:
<< Also I prefer Consuls and Republic to Emperors, so your criticism
cannot apply to me unless you produce a single line demonstrating
I lie now. >>
I wasn't criticizing you...or even talking about you. I was speaking of the
general populace that may be seeking to justify themselves "Romans" be
proclamations of blood lines.
<<But even philosophically some measure of exclusion is necessary to define
yourself.>>
It depends on how you are defining "exclusion". Surely one may be excluded
from one group or another by certain distinguishes...race, religion, sexual
preference, etc. However, it is a far cry from saying "I'm gay, you're
straight" or "he's black, I'm white" to saying "You don't have the same
rights as I do because you are gay" or "You can't drink from that water
fountain because you are black". In terms of "Roman", I believe you even
mentioned that exclusivity should be in terms of acts. One is "Roman" if
he/she acts in terms of what is considered "Roman" (virtues, piety,
honour)...one is "Barbarian" if he/she acts in terms of what is considered
"Barbarian" (non-virtuous, dis-honourable, etc.).
<<So I do also somehow agree with good Atticus who from Brasil which wrote
that one of the things defining the Latin way of thinking is (quote) the
idea of fines (limits). >>
However, keep in mind that you are working here with a medium that is
LIMITLESS! The Internet breaks through such boundaries. Do you really think
without the Internet that two guys fascinated with Ancient Rome would have
been able to organize an International Organization dedicated to the
restoration of Rome's Religion, Culture, and Virtues in the span of 2 years?
My point is that NR is breaking boundaries. Ancient Rome needed to define
its borders for as history demonstrated, when she became to big to manage,
she began to fall apart. But the world is a much smaller place now thanks to
technology and we should not define ourselves by "boundaries". So I believe
the who "Latin Brotherhood" debate goes the same way as Aryan Supremacy --
bye bye Racism!
With regards to East Timor...I really don't know what's going on there. I
haven't been following the thread here and I haven't kept up to the news. So
I am remaining silent on this issue. Such is the hardship of a busy life.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Timor... OnTopic |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:57:41 -0400 |
|
Salvete Golia et alii
I have never read a single post from any Nova Roman disparaging of
"neolatin" peoples. Please, don't attempt to make your point by adducing
lies.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">>From: "Marco Guasti" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
>
>
>There is absolutely no difference of view among us, but what I just
cannot
>understand are those which are intolerant to every mention of neolatin
links
> How can somebody appreciate roman values and dislike deeply some or all
>of Romes heirs, so much as do not to accept even that on the N R list
people
>speaks of sligth cultural preferences for neolatins ?
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re:Cultural Prejudice & Timor |
| From: |
"Martins-Esteves" esteves@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:58:00 -0300 |
|
Avete Quirites
Scripsit Prometheus:
>Well, I remember (and appreciated too) some posts of solidariety for a dog,
>on this list .
>The dog was the deceased friend of a NR citzen. Also I read some others
>posts about suggesting a name to one other puppy. also dear to a good NR
>citzen.
>Of course nobody complained, and many contributed.>
>Now why are some citzens so intolerant to the posts in favour of the human
>friends of other citzens?
It is part of the tradition of this list to raise the off- topic-argument
or the it-is-private-business-and-should-not-be-sent-to-the-list-argument
when something does not please someone and he is unwilling (or unable) to
attack directly the argument. So, don't worry: If people can talk about
dogs' names, you can definetly talk about TIMOR and about ROMANITAS.
(...) Scripsit ultra Prometheus
>Or somebody has perhaps some ANTI NEO LATIN PREJUDICE ?>
>Wouldn't be legitimate to think so if there is nothing morally criticable
>(rationally and ethically) based on what actually was said from myself or
>from Antonius Grillus ( not based on inventions or maliciously attributed
>intentions).
>Why to criticize me, my deepest opponents have to resort to link something
I have said, absolutely innocent, with something else, never said and
morally
>despisable ?
>Can this be done in good faith ? Is it intellectual honesty ? Roman
>Dignitas ? Cultural elevation ?
I don't know if there is in NR an anti neolatin prejudice, but I am almost
sure there is sort of a PARANOIA, which shows itself every time when
somebody writes something about Romanitas or Latin Brotherhood.
So I cannot use the words Romanitas or Latin fraternity in the Nova ROMA
list because I could hurt someone's feelings. Me Hercule!!! I'd better
subscribe to African or Moslim related list in order to discuss these
themes...
The fact is: we in NR value the Roman Civilization and THERE ARE people and
countries in the modern world to whom/which this Roman Civilization has
been trasmitted more directly. That is History, Cives! Someone, Merullus, I
think, wrote something like 'the latin countries are not equal to Rome' (not
in these words). Well, of course not, but (an let's be obvious to the end)
where can I feel the Latin culture more strongly: in Spain and Italy or in
Turkestan or China?
If we praise the Roman Civilization, how couldn't we value Spain, Italy
and... Timor?
Valete
Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re:Cultural Prejudice & Timor |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:21:47 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/10/99 11:13:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a> writes:
<< I don't know if there is in NR an anti neolatin prejudice, but I am almost
sure there is sort of a PARANOIA, which shows itself every time when
somebody writes something about Romanitas or Latin Brotherhood.
So I cannot use the words Romanitas or Latin fraternity in the Nova ROMA
list because I could hurt someone's feelings. Me Hercule!!! I'd better
subscribe to African or Moslim related list in order to discuss these
themes... >>
Such is Racism pure and simple and has no place here in NR.
<<The fact is: we in NR value the Roman Civilization and THERE ARE people and
countries in the modern world to whom/which this Roman Civilization has
been trasmitted more directly. That is History, Cives! >>
Then cite historic references. The fact is that just because a country is
Latin does not immediately imply that its people are Roman descendants.
Again you are espousing Racism.
<<If we praise the Roman Civilization, how couldn't we value Spain, Italy
and... Timor?>>
You can value Spain, Italy, and Timor...but why anymore so than England,
Canada, Australia, Portugal, Brazil, the U.S., or Cuba for that matter? All
of western civilization owes much of its origins to that of Rome and perhaps
a bit more so to Greece. So again, cut the "Latin Brotherhood" Racism crap!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Announcement from the rogatores |
| From: |
"Sacro Barese Impero sbi" sacro_barese_imp@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:39:06 PDT |
|
To have more candidates in the right time for elections, there must be an
announcement ... sorry but i haven't received some of this. But I don't know
perfectly the NR's lex and so i cannot say more. I'll study.
Of course I'll partecipate to the elections of December.
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Consul of S.B.I.
>From: Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement from the rogatores
>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:48:16 -0400 (EDT)
>
>From: Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a>
>
>
>On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Sacro Barese Impero sbi wrote:
>
> > From: "Sacro Barese Impero sbi" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166219180193237180098109077229239229102211254013241152150172" >sacro_barese_imp@--------</a>
>
> > "Gaius Marius Merullus" wrote:
> >
> > >True. There are at least two reasons, however, that voters would want
>to
> > >exercise their vote anyway in the current two assemblies:
> > >
> > >i) Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum, a law with which
>one
> > >either agrees or disagrees. The only way to make your agreement or
> > >disagreement count is to vote on it in the Comitia Centuriata
> > >ii) If noone votes, voting, assemblies and other republican
>institutions
> > >will fall by the wayside. We'll be left at best with either a club or
>some
> > >form of perpetual dictatorship.
> >
> > Yes this is the lex. If there aren't citizens that vote the institutions
> > fall. But at the lex one only vote elect the Consul. And do you thing
>that
> > the candidate don't vote himself?
> > Yes this is an ancient roman lex, but we must be realistic. This
>election's
> > system is too simple for the candidate. This isn't the only system of
> > antique Roma. I remember you that Romans invented a lot of system of
> > society. They invented the bipolarism too and the free election of the
> > consules.
> > It's more democratic if there is a public question for the candidates
>and we
> > can choose a candidate between more.
>
>There are as many candidates as ran for the offices during the designated
>campaign period. One person ran for consul--one person is on the ballot.
>One person ran for aedile--one is on the ballot. There was at least one
>other person interested in running for aedile but they presented
>themselves too late, either after voting started or just before when the
>ballot was already presented. We can not force people to participate or
>run for office--they must make those decisions themselves.
>
>With only three months left in the terms, it is likely that potential
>candidates decided to wait until they could run for a full term. I have no
>doubt that there will be a full battery of candidates in the Fall and
>perhaps for the upcoming praetor's race (details soon to be announced).
>
>Still, there is the question of the Lex on the ballot. This is the first
>opportunity ever for Nova Romans to vote on a law, either for or against.
>It is a historic moment--if for no other reason people should vote.
>
> > i don't know what is the political ideology of NR, but a fact like this
>was
> > in history of Italy. In the '20s a political party estabilished this
>system
> > killing the other parties. It was the Fascism!
> > Sorry but if NR is fascist, I want change it.
>
>The best way to change things or to have a voice is to participate in the
>election process and if you feel very strongly, run for an office in the
>next election.
>
>Vale,
>
>Decius Iunius Palladius,
>Consul of Nova Roma
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Quis ita familiaris est barbaris,
> ut aram Victoriae non requirat!"
>
> Quintus Aurelius Symmachus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ONElist: your connection to online communities.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Announcement from the rogatores |
| From: |
"Sacro Barese Impero sbi" sacro_barese_imp@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:49:41 PDT |
|
Michael where are you from? From Italy? Maybe you don't know what was the
fascist period?!
Fascism is xenophoby, repression, violence, closing-minds, etc. too.
I remeber you that Roma was big because it apllied the respect for the small
cultures, it gave importance to the provinces and not to the centralism, it
had 2 or 3 consules for a best control and division of power and not a
single dictator.
Sorry, I'm not communist, but I'm not fascist of course.
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Consul of S.B.I.
>Fro--------ichael Marconi <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=194233014237146192033082190" >ro--------...</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement from the rogatores
>Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:57:51 -0400
>
>Fro--------ichael Marconi <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=194233014237146192033082190" >ro--------...</a>
>
>Fascism - what's to fear from it. Nationalistic, anti-Communist, glorifying
>wars
>
>( something the Romans did continuously), unifying the various peoples...
>sounds
>pretty good to me.
|
| Subject: |
Ludi Romani |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:29:10 +0100 |
|
Salvete
Just to remind you that the Ludi Jovis Optimi Maximi will start at 9:30 AM
PDT.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et Editor Ludi Jovis
|
| Subject: |
Social Wars |
| From: |
James Mathews jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:46:36 +0000 |
|
I am having difficuty with my computer. While I can receive messages I
cannot seem to get them out. The keyboard for the WebTV is broken and I
am not sure if I can replace it, which leaves me in the position to read
mail but not to answer it. Please remove my name from the Social Wars
list if ypoou have not already done so, until I can regain the ability
to message out.
M.M. Audens
|
| Subject: |
100% NOVA Roman |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:44:51 -0500 |
|
On 10 Sep 99, at 7:15, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
> 3) I am not a biological racist I don't feel dishonoured from his claim.
> Once I read that in North America whites considered black everybody which
> had a single drop of black blood while in Brasil blacks & whites
> considered themselves almost all white as they almost all had at least one
> drop of white color. Well, (besides the dignity of being black 100%which I
> certainly accept too) , I feel like Brasilians in this matter : who has
> a drop of roman blood can claim to be of roman ancestry, and my kinship
> too.
My beloved son has been a victim of this law (I do believe it is
called the "One Sixteenth Law") as has my daughter and myself. I
was not even allowed admittance in the hospital without putting the
race of my son on his birth certificate. He is 1/6 Black (something
like that anyway), which makes him Black.
I put to you all that Lapis Lawrence Stone Meaker (aka Marcus
Iunius Posterious, proud grandson of the Iunia gens) is 100%
NOVA Roman. Neither white or black or Irish or Jewish. His true
relations are those who love him and watch over him, like his
GrandPater (who would never see him harmed or shamed), his
OdenUncle Venator and his Goddess Uncle/Aunt Dexxie. I believe
these people would fight for our little Posterious. I like to think that
Nova Roma would see to the well being of the 3 (at present) Native
Born Nova Romans.
Amethystia Crystallina
Mater
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Announcement from the rogatores |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:46:27 EDT |
|
Umm...wait a minute! Now that I've looked at this person's name...
Is this not that same Michael Marconi that infultrated NR and then espoused
christian propaganda against our Pagan citizens and then continued to insult
us one by one culminating in a personal attack upon yours truly before
finally being removed from the list?
What the hell is he doing back here?
--Dexippus
In a message dated 9/10/99 11:50:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166219180193237180098109077229239229102211254013241152150172" >sacro_barese_imp@--------</a> writes:
<< Michael where are you from? From Italy? Maybe you don't know what was the
fascist period?!
Fascism is xenophoby, repression, violence, closing-minds, etc. too.
I remeber you that Roma was big because it apllied the respect for the small
cultures, it gave importance to the provinces and not to the centralism, it
had 2 or 3 consules for a best control and division of power and not a
single dictator.
Sorry, I'm not communist, but I'm not fascist of course.
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Consul of S.B.I.
>Fro--------ichael Marconi <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=194233014237146192033082190" >ro--------...</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement from the rogatores
>Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:57:51 -0400
>
>Fro--------ichael Marconi <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=194233014237146192033082190" >ro--------...</a>
>
>Fascism - what's to fear from it. Nationalistic, anti-Communist, glorifying
>wars
>
>( something the Romans did continuously), unifying the various peoples...
>sounds
>pretty good to me.
--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor -------------------- >>
|
| Subject: |
Re: 100% NOVA Roman |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:51:01 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/10/99 12:38:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> writes:
<< His true
relations are those who love him and watch over him, like his
GrandPater (who would never see him harmed or shamed), his
OdenUncle Venator and his Goddess Uncle/Aunt Dexxie. I believe
these people would fight for our little Posterious. >>
And fight to the end I shall! Don't mess with a Diva with Attitude!
--Auntie Dexie
|
| Subject: |
Needless division was Re: Romanitas was Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re: Timor) |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:52:02 -0400 |
|
Salvete Golia et alii
This is my final public reply to you. Any further message from me directed
at you will probably only be intended to correct any false statements that I
see you make.
You asked Dexippus-
>So why not to side with the aggressed, with the freedom seeker,
>(not with the oppressor) ? Or at least stay quiet if not interested ?
Of course I cannot answer for Dexippus, but I can answer for myself. From
my own point of view, there are at least three big reasons why not:
i) I am a citizen of Nova Roma and need this forum, like others, to
communicate with other citizens about Roma and Nova Roma. Other uses of the
forum, whoever advances those uses, interfere with that fundamental use.
ii) You might have missed it Golia, but...Fimbria is the Curator Sermonum,
the magistrate in charge of moderating this forum, and asked for an end to
the East Timor thread. Instead of dropping the discussion, you replied to
Fimbria with your "Latin brotherhood" rhetoric and potentially divisive
calls against "Malay pirates" et cetera. So, to sum it up, you're a
non-citizen who defies the instruction of our Curator to sow discord in our
Forum. Get lost, please.
iii) The fact that some of us here don't want to discuss global politics
has nothing necessarily to do with interest, lack of interest or
disinterest. Quite the opposite. I don't want to sit through a lot of
inflammatory, off-topic posts, I don't want to read your or someone else's
pet version of recent history or current events peppered with colorful
racial labels. I don't want to see people quitting Nova Roma and unsubbing
from the list (except for you, of course) because it is dominated by
fighting, yet the only alternative that you leave me is to weed through your
posts, allow you to call Russians barbarians and Central Asians "even more
barbarians" et cetera. Maybe I'm self-centered, but I think that I
shouldn't have to receive messages like that on this list. All that comes
of it is arguing, and we have plenty to argue about without bringing in
issues external to Nova Roma. I don't want to see us divided, least of all
by a strident hostis like you.
>Why to over-react histerically allergically, unpolitely if some of your
NOVA
>ROMA fellows lobbies for them ? (Why instead of merely fellows could not we
>be friends if good faith and politeness find some way?)
Your sugary retreats are so hollow. How can you even type the word
"politeness" after your massive generalizations of barbarity tossed at
peoples around the globe?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
ATTN: Ludi Jovis in the morning |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:08:58 +0100 |
|
Salvete
Due to lack of audience, the morning Games were canceled.
Please, don't forget the afternoon Games.
AFTERNOON SHOW 4 PM PDT, 7 PM EDT
THRACIAN & GAUL BOTH TIROS
PERSEUS THE THRACIAN: 5-4 150 LBS
DIVICO OF THE BOII 5-8 175 LBS
A CLASSIC CONFRONTATION OF SPEED AGAINST MUSCLE, ODDS ARE EVEN.
THE EDITOR IS SENATRIX ET PROPRAETRIX Flavia Claudia
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=246157057089235135162082190036" >SFP55@--------</a>.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis
|
| Subject: |
Re:Cultural Prejudice & Timor |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:59:58 -0400 |
|
Salvete Tite Horati et alii
Please, by all means, be proud of your heritage! I'm proud of mine and hope
that all of us are.
But when someone speaks of "Latin Brotherhood" and the barbarity of another
ethnic group in the same post or thread, all we're doing is sowing seeds of
discord. Surely you understand that?
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
>From: "Martins-Esteves" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a>
>
>
>The fact is: we in NR value the Roman Civilization and THERE ARE people and
>countries in the modern world to whom/which this Roman Civilization has
>been trasmitted more directly. That is History, Cives! Someone, Merullus, I
>think, wrote something like 'the latin countries are not equal to Rome'
(not
>in these words). Well, of course not, but (an let's be obvious to the end)
>where can I feel the Latin culture more strongly: in Spain and Italy or in
>Turkestan or China?
>If we praise the Roman Civilization, how couldn't we value Spain, Italy
>and... Timor?
>
>
>Valete
>
>Atticus
|
| Subject: |
Re: ATTN: Ludi Jovis in the morning |
| From: |
"RMerullo" rmerullo@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:11:40 -0400 |
|
Salvete Antoni Grylle et alii
I am so sorry to say that it is physically impossible for me to be present
virtually at the games.
Thank you, and you too Fabi, for organizing this, I hope that it goes well.
Valete
Gaius Marius Merullus
work interfering with life
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete
>
>Due to lack of audience, the morning Games were canceled.
>Please, don't forget the afternoon Games.
>
>Valete
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Aedilis Plebis
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: (no subject) |
| From: |
Exitil@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:25:11 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/10/99 2:11:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:
> Doing a bit of reading lately, I came across a rather
> interesting Roman god. Just out of curiosity, does
> anyone have as a gens deity the god Sterculinus?
To the god of manure? Now THAT would be funny. Also, Rome deified people a
couple of times (maybe more than a couple), will NR be doing anything similar
to this out of curiosity? i.e. "Germanicus, god of resurrection" or anything
like that.
-Alexander Novus
|
| Subject: |
Re: (no subject) |
| From: |
Dexippus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:47:17 EDT |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 9/10/99 3:25:31 PM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------;
writes:
<< To the god of manure? Now THAT would be funny. Also, Rome deified people
a
couple of times (maybe more than a couple), will NR be doing anything
similar
to this out of curiosity? i.e. "Germanicus, god of resurrection" or
anything
like that. >>
Please...let's not even go there! That's all we need...deified Nova Romans!
Oy Vey!
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Timor & the White House--Off Topic as it gets |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:39:31 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
If people are really concerned about Timor, they should be writing to their
own (i.e. non-NovaRoman) government precisely because it is those
governments who have allowed dictatorships (and have even encouraged them)
to flourish. Folks in Canada have been protesting for years about it,
however, not realizing that our form of government is, in fact, an elected
dictatorship ... numerous very large corporations based in Canada have
corporate interests in the area, and, well, you can guess the rest. I'm
sure the same prevails with the US and numerous other countries ...
Whenever I read about events such as those in Timor, Serbia, Bosnia,
Rwanda, etc. I can only remember the words of the jurist Paulus (this used
to be my sig for a while):
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
(I'd get it tattoed on my chest, but my wife won't let me! 8^))
MPJ
[Freedom is a priceless thing]
At 05:40 PM 07/09/1999 -0700, you wrote:
From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
This would be good for a laugh if it weren't that people are dying.
Why are you sending your little pleas to the United States
government??? I would think the United Nations would be the proper
recipient. And wasn't there a lot of whining and ranting about the
United States being involved with Europeans in a European trouble
spot?
Well, if you have not been keeping up with events, the UN has given
Indonesia a 48 hour deadline to stop making people dead. A "Peace
Keeping" force is being readied. It seems it will be led by the
Australians, who will probably be more acceptable than the despicable
imperialistic Americans. At least until it is discovered that the
Australians are also even handed.
C. Aelius Ericius
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:22:28 +0300
From: "Marco Guasti" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Subject: Re: Out of topic: Timor
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 7:29 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Out of topic: Timor
>From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
>Salvete!
>As you know, Lusitania (Portugal) is still the administrative power
over
its
>former colony of East Timor, according to UN resolutions. A
referendum was
>performed under the UN and 78% of the people voted for independence
from
the
>dictatorship of Indonesia. The Nova Roman governor and the provincia
are in
>total agreement with the aspiration to independence of the Maubere
people
of
>East Timor.
>Please, read the following and forward to friends, institutions, etc.
>
>Valete
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Propraetor Lusitaniae
>
>Widespread death and destruction are happening in East Timor.
>Unless world leaders exert maximum pressure on the Indonesian
Government
>the results of last Monday's referendum will be followed by a
growing
>massacre and destruction of thousands of citizens who braved
everything to
>vote, expressing overwhelmingly their wish to become independent.
>Regrettably, the Indonesian Government is not fullfiling the New York
>agreements and has allowed the violence to spread.
>
>An international force is essential to prevent the total
slaughter of
>the people by the anti-independence militias.
>
>Therefore,
>
>I call upon you to URGENTLY exert all of the available means at your
>disposal to make the killings stop and prevent the deportation and
massacre
>of the people of East Timor.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Antonio Grillo,
I'm happy to confirm you that I
already
sent the second part of your message to
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197212192112082154184158031248166208071048" >president@--------</a> , just the president (or at least some
office of
the presidency) of the USA. I was able to have it signed by 10
people,
(2 americans, 1 israelian, 6 romanians, and one, myself Italian)
I also invite everybody to forward such message to the above e-mail
address, and also to others, possibly of members of US Congress and
Government people. Whoever can find such addresses would do a great
thing to
publishing them on <a href="mailto:helptimor@--------" >helptimor@--------</a> , a list I am just
creating to
help. You'll be also moderator if you like.
All those NOVA ROMANS who feel one or both of the following reasons
valid
migth also help:
* A sense of humanitarian love for freedom, justice, rigth, peace
(just a sense of kinship with other humans
in
trouble)
** A sense of even closer kinship for those humans which trough a
neo-latin
language remember us of a direct (if european) or indirect (if
extra-european, colonial ) common cultural heritage having its deepest
root
in ROME. Of course without any prejudice for the complete opening of
NOVA
ROMA to people of absolutely every origin sharing a common love and
respect for ROMAN civilization as the sense of Rome in history was
just to
civilize the aliens through LAW, its greatness was to be the first non
tribal society based upon LAW,
____________________________________________________________________________
___
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: POSTED IN THE FORUM |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:41:45 -0400 |
|
Wouldn't it be more appropriate for such exhibitions to be held on the Ides?
mpj
At 02:03 PM 09/09/1999 EDT, you wrote:
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
OBSERVO!
IN HONOR OF THE GREAT GOD IVPPITER OPTIMUS MAXIMUS HOLIDAY
THE CURULE AEDILE Q. FABIUS MAXIMUS WILL SPONSOR THE FOLLOWING GLADIATOR
SHOWS at the NOVA ROMA ARENA:
<a href="http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/u/440638" target="_top" >http://venus.beseen.com/chat/rooms/u/440638</a>
FRIDAY THE 10TH MORNING SHOW, 9:30 AM PDT, 12:30 PM EDT.
TWO SECUTORS,
GAIUS REGULUS FROM UMBRIA, 5'-5" 165 LBS
7 FIGHTS 5 WINS 1 ND 1 LOSS.
APPIUS FLAVIUS FROM BRUTTIA. BLONDE (OF COURSE) 5'-6" 168 LBS
10 FIGHTS 5 WINS 2 ND 3 LOSSES.
BOTH FIGHTERS ARE EVENLY MATCHED, ODDS ARE 2-3 ON FLAVIUS.
THE TRIBUNE OF THE PLEBS ANTONIUS GRYLLUS GRAECUS HAS CONSENTED TO BE EDITOR
OF THE GAMES
AFTERNOON SHOW 4 PM PDT, 7 PM EDT
THRACIAN & GAUL BOTH TIROS
PERSEUS THE THRACIAN: 5-4 150 LBS
DIVICO OF THE BOII 5-8 175 LBS
A CLASSIC CONFRONTATION OF SPEED AGAINST MUSCLE, ODDS ARE EVEN.
THERE IS NO EDITOR AT THIS TIME. INTERESTED PEOPLE PLEASE E-MAIL
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=246157057089235135162082190036" >SFP55@--------</a>.
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: POSTED IN THE FORUM |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:18:26 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/10/1999 4:47:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a> wr--------:
>> Wouldn't it be more appropriate for such exhibitions to be held on the
Ides >>
Yes it would. But it has to do with my avilability. One day, please the
Gods, I won't matter.
Vale
Q Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: ATTN: Comitia Plebis Tributa |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:19:41 -0400 |
|
Salve,
And I've also posted the results on the Aerarium Saturnii, just to have
multiple copies out there.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 5:54 AM
Subject: [novaroma] ATTN: Comitia Plebis Tributa
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
>
> Salvete cives
>
> As requested, I've already uploaded the voting results file into the Nova
> Roma file area of Onelist. The name of the file is 'Suffragia CPlebis
> Tributa.doc'.
>
> Valete
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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> <a href=" <a href="http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/hawaii2" target="_top" >http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/hawaii2</a> ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: 100% NOVA Roman |
| From: |
Steven Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:25:16 -0700 |
|
Avete Omnes!
Venator scripsit;
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/10/99 12:38:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> writes:
>
> << His true relations are those who love him and watch over him, like his
> GrandPater (who would never see him harmed or shamed), his
> Odin Uncle Venator and his Goddess Uncle/Aunt Dexxie. I believe
> these people would fight for our little Posterious. >>
>
> And fight to the end I shall! Don't mess with a Diva with Attitude!
>
> --Auntie Dexie
>
I think with a mixed bag of relations like this, we'll confuse the hell out
of anyone who thinks to make trouble for the children of the New City!!!
They won't be able to think straight enough to do anything but drool...
<LOL>
In Amicus - Odin Uncle Venator, possessor of the IRS "rat someone out"
1-800-number, and who used it on a former brother-in law who mistreated his
sister. (We have ways of getting vengence!)
|
| Subject: |
Re: oRe: Re:Cultural Preferece...? (was Re: Timor) |
| From: |
Art McGrath amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:55:51 -0400 (EDT) |
|
On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Martins-Esteves wrote:
> From: "Martins-Esteves" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a>
> >From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
> >
> >Salve Mario Fimbria
> >
> >I would like to thank you. You have said something not very pleasant,
> >but which needed to be said.
>
>
> As I can see from some postings of cives of the USA, saying something "not
> very pleasent" seams to be part of the american way of life.
Well, that was a non sequitur if I ever saw one, not to mention a cheap
shot designed at perhaps getting a rise out of some of the Americans on
this list. You turned Probus' compliment to Fimbria ("thank you for saying
what had to be said") into an excuse to throw an insult at Americans.
This was done while at the same time talking about how close you feel to
the Nova Romans on this list. Does that include the American Nova Romans
or does their status as Americans outweigh their status as Nova Romans to
you? All Nova Romans are equal but some are more equal than others?
I, for one, have been finding the general discussion about the cultural
links between cultures and the Roman influence on various cultures quite
interesting, but I thought your one particular comment out of place.
Vale,
Decius Iunius Palladius
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Quis ita familiaris est barbaris,
ut aram Victoriae non requirat!"
Quintus Aurelius Symmachus
|
