Subject:	Re: Former term City Praetor
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:19:53 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 9/20/99 9:08:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a> writes:
>
> << (the term Praetor Urbanus is no longer used. It is simply
> Praetor as provincial governors are all called propraetors. >>
> Salve Decius Iunius
> Praetor Urbanus (City Praetor) it was, so as far as I'm concerned it stays
> that. My opponents can call the office what they wish.

Salve Q. Fabi,

You may call it what you wish. In Nova Roma, however, the term is simply
Praetor, not praetor urbanus. I was only pointing out to you that you
are not running for praetor urbanus as there is no such term in Nova Roma.
When people cast a vote for you, the ballot will say praetor. If your
opponents are calling it that, then they are using the correct Nova Roman
term whereas you will not be. That is a minor point in a campaign though.

The title was changed in the new constitution during the dictatorship at
the suggestion of several people on the list. The reasoning was that since
the names of the provincial governors were changed, a term wasn't needed
to designate the elected praetor anymore and since the praetors are no
more "in the city" than anyone else (our nation being essentially
virtual) then that term was no longer needed. I myself liked the old
term of praetor urbanus. It had distinction. However, it is gone and it
*was* essentially superfluous.

Vale,


Decius Iunius Palladius



-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Quis ita familiaris est barbaris,
ut aram Victoriae non requirat!"

Quintus Aurelius Symmachus

Subject:	Re: Election Announcement
From:	Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:23:14 -0400 (EDT)

On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Daniel Dreesbach wrote:

> From: Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>
>
> I wish to run for Praetor


Salve G. Iuni Germane,


Make an announcement to that effect then, stating why you are running,
some background about yourself and your qualifications. Something along
the lines that the other two candidates have done. I don't think you want
the above line as your only announcement--you have formidable competition
in Marcus Minucius Audens and Q. Fabius.

Vale,


Decius Iunius Palladius,
Consul

Subject:	Another passing thought
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:44:03 -0500 (CDT)

Just another passing thought. Perhaps somewhere in the far off
future some citizens might be interested in pitching in funds for a
small area of common land on the provincial level for the purpose of
hunting, camping, get-togethers etc. A place where people can go even
with their families at times to getaway from things. Kind of like a
timeshare with the potential for a shrine or two on such properties.

I do know that at least here in Wisconsin there is a program
designed for conservation that states something to the effect that land
bought for that purpose-- another words a promise not to build means no
land taxes but I don't know specific requirements. I just think that in
establishing such retreats would enable more citizens to interact with
each other and provide real substantial benefits for the long term. It
is also the quickest and most practical way to start the concept of a
landed Nova Roma. Imagine the possibilities for suh places on the
provincial level.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Just wanted to let everyone know....
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:27:38 -0700

Salvete Omnes...

As Consul of Nova Roma, I want to be available to everyone. In that
end, I wanted to send an email and I will post this on the message
board, my accessibility. I think a serious problem with the old system
was that many of our magistrates werent available, so in order to avoid
that I am sending this e-mail.

I am available on ICQ, my ICQ number is 2122309. I am usually on that a
bit in the morning...and late, VERY late in the evening...

on AIM, I am Nova Roman. if I am on ICQ, then I am definately on AIM.
:)

my --------il....is <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>. Now on W--------unday I work at
Earthlink, but I am in Tech Support. So I have a response time of less
than 5 min usually....So if you e-mail me between 3:45 pm and 12:00 am,
Pacific time. I will respond very quickly..

Finally, my days off are on Monday and Tuesday. While a bit ago I was a
fixture in the Taverna....that isnt the case anymore due to work, and
well...researching laws and preparing for law school...However on my
days off I try to stop in periodically. My handle in the Taverna is
Sulla.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns. I
am here to help.

Vale!

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	ATTN: EDICT (Comitia Plebis Tributa is canceled)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:02:10 +0100

Salvete cives

I hereby cancel my edict of Mon, 20 Sep 1999 (see below) to convene the
Comitia Plebis Tributa in order to vote the Lex Grylla de Accumulatione
Magistraturarum. The reasons are the following:

1) There is a lack of consensus among magistrates, senators, citizens and
myself, including lack of consensus between the two Tribuni Plebis.

2) The danger that after the next elections many of the offices would be
vacant. The Constitution says (Const. V-D):
"Should a magistrate's office become vacant during the course of his term,
the Senate may appoint a replacement to serve out the remainder of the term
should there be less than three months remaining therein."
As such, offices cannot be filled if they remain vacant immediately after
the elections, i.e. in the very beginning of the year.
If many offices are vacant after the elections, they remain so for the most
part of the year, thus slowing and even degrading what started to be built
this year.

I still think - and everyone thinks - that to increase participation in the
public life of Nova Roma is a must. I still think - and everyone thinks -
that in order to do that, there must be some limitation to the holding of
magistracies on part of a few. Nova Roma cannot be a stage show offered by a
dozen of dedicated people. Nova Roma must be put to work and grow by all
Novi Romani. But taking into account this Lex has so many consequences in
the daily practice of Nova Roma, I take as the most responsible - though
difficult - attitude to cancel the Comitia Plebis Tributa and the Lex
proposal for the moment.

I finally leave an appeal to all citizens of Nova Roma. Your power is your
participation. More weight of citizen participation will improve the
conditions for the approval of Leges such as the Lex de Accumulatione
Magistraturarum. This participation must also be responsible. It is not
enough to present a candidacy. It is required to comply with the duties of
the chosen magistracy. As such, in the next elections:
1) Vote.
2) If you feel you're the man/woman for the job... Candidate yourself.

The canceled EDICT for the Comitia Plebis Tributa is attached below.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Salvete cives

At the same time that another Comitia Centuriata is held, another Comitia
Plebis Tributa shall be held too, this time to approve legislation. The
Comitia Plebis shall again be held simultaneously with the Comitia
Centuriata, i.e. October 4 until October 26. The
proposed lex is called Lex Grylla de Accumulatione Magistraturarum and deals
with the accumulation of magistracies, putting limits to the number of
candidacies of a citizen. Although the Lex Grylla de Accumulatione
Magistraturarum is a plesbicitum, it was discussed with Consul Palladius, a
person who also had clear intention of legislating the issue. The Lex Grylla
de Accumulatione
Magistraturarum reads as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lex Grylla de Accumulatione Magistraturarum is a plebiscitum that limits
the number of eligible magistracies to which a citizen may present a
candidacy. According to this
law, a candidacy to an office may be presented with the following
restrictions:

1) A candidate may not run for more than one office at a time whose terms
coincide.

2) The terms of eligible offices occupied by the candidate at the time of
candidacy must expire before the beginning of the term of office for which
the candidacy is being presented.

Notes:
a) Eligible offices are all those offices subject to election by the
Comitia, even if their terms were the result of appointment by the Senate.
b) This law does not restrict appointments by the Senate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some personal comments on the proposed law:
a) Point 1) prevents a citizens from presenting simultaneous candidacies in
order to win at least one. Besides assuring more commitment towards
candidacies, it prevents highly regarded and experienced citizens from
grabbing offices making the cursus honorum a priviledge of a reduced
'clique'. It thus increases the probability of a citizen to start his/her
cursus honorum.
b) Point 2) prevents 'election-after-election' accumulation of offices whose
terms overlap.
c) Senate appointments are not restricted in any way (e.g. a lack of
candidates may require such appointments to be even if there is accumulation
of offices).
d) Religious offices are not considered in the law, for it is the
responsibility of the competent Collegia to decide in a case-by-case basis
whether a citizen has the conditions to occupy a religious position in
accumulation with a magistracy.

Valete omnes

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis

Subject:	to:M. Mucius Scaevola Magistersaid
From:	"from Joanne at work" sheberserker@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:30:04 CEST

M. Mucius Scaevola Magistersaid:
>I don't think much of the trav. cheques idea - send
>them countersigned and you might as well post cash
American Express Travellers checks have a "pay to the order of " line like
any regular private check. They can only be cashed to the person that they
were writtn to.
Joanne Agate

Subject:	Re: Taxes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:48:42 -0400 (EDT)

In response to:

M. Mucius Scaevola Magister;

Your comment in regard to Traveler's Checks is a good one and one that I
missed. I have only used them for international purposes twice and had
forgotten about the double signing. Thank you for bringing up that
important point.

So, in this discussion, about taxes, I had a thought regarding the
English speaking countries, and perhaps I can put that thought before
the forum. Should any such country (England, Canada, Ireland or
Australia) have only one or two members in NR, then they should be
afforded the same priveledge as others outside these countries (no dues
/ taxes). When the population in any given country reaches three or
more then dues / taxes will be required. In non-English speakin
countries when the number of members reaches 4 or 5 then that country
will be able to pay dues / taxes as well

What think you????

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Another passing thought
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:07:45 -0500

On 22 Sep 99, at 0:44, Dean Troy wrote:

>
> Just another passing thought. Perhaps somewhere in the far off
> future some citizens might be interested in pitching in funds for a
> small area of common land on the provincial level for the purpose of
> hunting, camping, get-togethers etc. A place where people can go even with
> their families at times to getaway from things. Kind of like a timeshare
> with the potential for a shrine or two on such properties.

I have mentioned many times in the past that I have land in
Mississippi. I know this is not ideal, but it has been offered. For
all anyone knows, I may have been willing to either GIVE it to Nova
Roma or rent it to Nova Roma for the outlandish rent of $1.00 per
10 years (The Park District land in Chicago had a neato lease like
that, but it was $1.00 from the beginning until the year 2000.
Somehow I think they are looking at a nasty rent increase).

However, a more comfy place may be our house. We will be
moving somewhere between now and the 30th of October. There
will eventually be non-Roman things there, like the childs playset in
the backyard, but I guess that wouldn't matter to any but the
silliest of the stuffy. There is also the matter of the little Romans
that will be wandering around. In any event we are considering a
Triclinium (sp?) (that's 3 futon's that would act as our living room
set in not-so-Roman moments) and we have room for guests (on
the afore mentioned futons -- there will be a grand total of 4 but
room for more if you come on an off weekend (that opens up 2
more beds). If needs must, Tinky Winky can don a toga for visitors.

SO .... Nova Roma has a place to call it's own. I don't know about
the Mississippi land anymore, but the Texas land is just ripe for the
Romans!

If anyone's interested that is.

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina

Subject:	Re: to:M. Mucius Scaevola Magistersaid
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:11:17 -0500

On 22 Sep 99, at 13:30, from Joanne at work wrote:

> American Express Travellers checks have a "pay to the order of " line like
> any regular private check. They can only be cashed to the person that they
> were writtn to. Joanne Agate

What about money orders? Made out to Nova Roma in whatever
dollar amount each country decides on (deuch marks, ruppees,
dollars, francs, whatever). Then sent to the nearest countrys
accountholder. Or just sent to the US and deposited, exchange
rate be damned <G>.

Crys (trying to learn, honest)

Subject:	Re: Re: Tax them 'til it hurts!
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:24:06 PDT

Salvete!

Respondit Cassio Iuliano Crystallina:

> > and if some people
> > volunteer to be Censorial Scribes the task could be done pretty easily
>and
> > quickly.
>
>I actually thought I could do the job. It doesn't look like it would dig
>into my "Mommy" time too much. However, I don't have the
>program and Germanicus doesn't like me anyway.
>
>Crys

Respondeo:

C'mon, Crys - Germanicus, I, or just about anyone in NR can copy you the
Excel program. And liking someone hasn't anything to do with being able to
work effectively with them. Besides, who knows? You and If you did take on
the job at the Censors' office, you and Germanicus might even evolve a
mutual admiration. Stranger things have happened in NR :-)

How about it?

Valete, omnes,

Vado (cautious optimist).

Subject:	Re: Re: Re: Tax them 'til it hurts!
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:35:41 -0500

On 22 Sep 99, at 5:24, Nicolaus Moravius wrote:

> C'mon, Crys - Germanicus, I, or just about anyone in NR can copy you the
> Excel program.

I know, I know .....

And liking someone hasn't anything to do with being able to
> work effectively with them. Besides, who knows? You and If you did take on
> the job at the Censors' office, you and Germanicus might even evolve a
> mutual admiration. Stranger things have happened in NR :-)
>

Mutual admiration?? Hmmmmm. Serena and I have discussed
this a bit and wonder if people could handle it? <G> I would hate
to see hearts give out.

> How about it?
>
> Valete, omnes,
>
> Vado (cautious optimist).

Talk to you-know-who.

Crys

Subject:	Re: First British Etcetera
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:30:20 PDT

Iterum salutem!

Sic T. Fl. Saturninus:

>Greetings,
> It is interesting that just this past week I had built and painted
>an auxiliary shield that is possibly representative of Cohors I Brittonum
>Milliaria Ulpia Torquata p.f. c.R.
>I went with a red base color and the designs from top to bottom are as
>follows.
>Unit name tag
>Eagle
>Wreath
>She-wolf with Romulus and Remus
>Name tag
> I think that the use of the eagle and she-wolf, both very Roman
>items would have been a mark of a unit that had received citizenship, and
>the use of the wreath on the shield probably meant the award of torquata
>to the unit. This basic shied design appaers on Trajan's Column.
> On the back I painted various deities of a personal nature.It
>actually came out rather good!
> While auxiliary units could be granted citizenship for valour, men
>joining after the award would probably still have to await their
>discharge, as with other units to get theirs.
>Tiberius Flavius Saturninus

- A strange coincidence, this: or is somebody trying to tell us something?
:-)

- Any chance of a photograph of this shield, Saturninus? PLEASE?

Valete bene, onmnes,

Vado.

Subject:	Re: Re: Taxes (Long!)
From:	DTibbe2926@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:34:42 EDT

In a message dated 21/09/99 18:37:52 GMT Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:

<< I agree that currency exchange is a potential headache, but as Gaius
Drusus
Domitianus has suggested, Britannia's taxes could remain in a British
account, specifically to fund the expenses of Provincia Britannia
(recruitment, website development, public events, etc.). >>

Not a big headache if it is all collected in one place, say twice a year, and
forwarded as one. If it was done at the end of January and the end of July,
the central NR Treasury will know there will be an input of funds at these
times (well, January certainly). If 'taxes' are to be levied then it would
need to be made clear that x amount will be held in Britannia for 'future
expansion' (dreams of Empire!) and y amount is being sent to central NR.

As to an amount, $25 sounds OK. $15 to central NR Treasury and $10 to
Britannia's Treasury.

<< For the record, then, I would be willing to administer such a fund as a
sort
of Quaestor Provinciae Britanniae, reporting to the central NR Treasury.
Hope this helps. >>

Is central NR responsible for such an appointment?

I suspect our Legatus already has future funding of Britannia in hand for
discussion on her return from Gaul.

Valete,

Severus

Subject:	Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:45:48 PDT

Salvete!

Scripsit Audens:

>Mucius Scraeola Magister;
>
>In your comment " the requirement for for 10 years military service is
>not reasonable" may not be accurate. There are several ex-miitary men
>in this organization to which such a requirement would apply. Cut the
>requirement from 10 years to two years, and expand the field of service
>to appointed positions within NR or appointed or elected positions in
>other similar organizations. Local city government, re-enactment units
>, youth organizations, other volunteer organizations in which the
>candidate has held a position of responsibility, chairmen, board
>members, officers, etc. After all the basic idea is to season people in
>the experience of service in order to provde them with the basic
>Leadership tools. Those tools and that service experience can be gained
>from many organizations.

- the notion of a qualification of at least 2 years' experience with the
Armed Forces or other organisation of probity and honour seems an excellent
idea to me. We should be making the best use possible of the considerable
pool of organisational experience that exists among our citizens (though I
am well aware we already have some in executive offices with such valuable
experience), rather than allowing ourselves the doubtful luxury of letting
young tyros cut their executive teeth on our respublica, the way some other
micronations seem to.

I would suggest a minimum qualification of 2 years for Quastors and Aediles,
rising to 10 years for a Consul.

Valete bene,

Vado.

Subject:	Re: Another passing thought
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:46:13 EDT

In a message dated 9/21/99 10:44:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:


Drusus:
> Just another passing thought. Perhaps somewhere in the far off
future some citizens might be interested in pitching in funds for a
small area of common land on the provincial level for the purpose of
hunting, camping, get-togethers etc. A place where people can go even
with their families at times to getaway from things. Kind of like a
timeshare with the potential for a shrine or two on such properties.
>>

Cassius:
Hey, that's a *neat* idea! Obviously Nova Roma is many years away from being
able to build any kind of "headquarters" to be a world capital and make our
claim to being a living worldwide culture more real. It only makes sense that
this might be approached in stages... even ONE acre of land somewhere would
help to prove we're looking to be more than just an "all talk" virtual
community on the Internet.

A park here or there would also give reenactor legions a chance to camp, AND
have fun trying to recreate at least temporary fortifications, etc. Such a
park might be used for festivals as well. The possibility for small religious
shrines and space for Nova Roma families to enjoy the outdoors also seems
desirable. Now if we could only find a source for inexpensive real estate,
that wouldn't cost more per acre than we have in our treasury!

I've actually seen land as low as $114.00 per acre, but it was being sold in
huge lots so that the total asking price was in the $65,000 range. If anyone
out there hears of "unbuildable" land being sold in smaller lots... ;)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator

Subject:	Re: Just wanted to let everyone know....
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:03:14 EDT

Salve,

Good for you, Lucius Cornelius! On a serious note, you might want to post
such a message fairly regularly if you can... as much as once a month if you
can manage. There has seemed to be some confusion over magistrate
"availability" in the past... even though all the E-mail addresses of each
magistrate are linked right into the Collis Capitolinus section of the Nova
Roma site!

We've had that problem with the Priesthood too, even though the Pontificial
College AND each Pontiff has an Email link in the Pantheon section of the
site.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus



In a message dated 9/22/99 12:26:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>

Salvete Omnes...

As Consul of Nova Roma, I want to be available to everyone. In that
end, I wanted to send an email and I will post this on the message
board, my accessibility. I think a serious problem with the old system
was that many of our magistrates werent available, so in order to avoid
that I am sending this e-mail.

I am available on ICQ, my ICQ number is 2122309. I am usually on that a
bit in the morning...and late, VERY late in the evening...

on AIM, I am Nova Roman. if I am on ICQ, then I am definately on AIM.
:)

my --------il....is <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>. Now on W--------unday I work at
Earthlink, but I am in Tech Support. So I have a response time of less
than 5 min usually....So if you e-mail me between 3:45 pm and 12:00 am,
Pacific time. I will respond very quickly..

Finally, my days off are on Monday and Tuesday. While a bit ago I was a
fixture in the Taverna....that isnt the case anymore due to work, and
well...researching laws and preparing for law school...However on my
days off I try to stop in periodically. My handle in the Taverna is
Sulla.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns. I
am here to help.

Vale!

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul
>>

Subject:	To Crys
From:	"from Joanne at work" sheberserker@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:53:35 CEST

>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Joanne
>Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:07:04 -0500
>
>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
>On 17 Sep 99, at 7:14, <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:11:33 +0200
> > From: "Joanne Agate" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=060017221106171167073016064076057064095159081196010130152150" >PAGANFEDBELGIUM@--------</a>
> > Subject: ramblings and Roman in Belgium
> >
Hi Crys,
Thanks for your friendly reply!

>Once in NR, I read about the practice of
>married women to wear veils. I adopted it immediately and it felt
>perfectly natural, and so I just do it <G>.
Good for you! Veils are quite usual here. In Belgium and France we have many
many Moslem women who are veiled (even the teenagers).

>In this day and age I >think it is simply a symbol of the much >needed
>respect of wives for >their husbands, which is sorely lacking, >IMO.
How about the gents wearing veils out of respect for their wives women and
us gals can let our long beautiful hair hang free :-)
Warm regards from a chilly brussels,
Joanne Agate (who hasn't taken a Roman name yet)

Subject:	Re: Another passing thought
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:00:50 -0400 (EDT)

To:Gaius Drusus Domitianus;

One of the line items in the proposed budget is reserved for investment
for the purchase of real property at the Senate's approval.

The problem of a retreat and get-togethers seem to be somewhat difficult
and I am not sure why. To my mind it does not require a great deal of
effort. I suppos that is because I attend 30 to 40 events annually as
far north as Maine and as far south a Maryland, and as far West as
Missouri. However, my concept of the idea is to get together, meet each
other, share the relationship, and go home refreshed. In a weekend
get-together four meals at most need planning (two lunches, one
breakfast and a supper) together with one night's sleep. Certainly
there are sufficient restaurants, food takeout places and motels over
the country to set something up. I certainly do not require a casino or
resort to enjoy my NR friends and I am very willing to devote one
weekend per year to them..

I have suggested my home as a get-ogether area before using tentage and
sleeping in the house on air mattresses as a possible solution to keep
the cost down, but I have had few takers. I have suggested arrangements
at an Atlantic City Casino,(Caesar's Palace) and Commander Gallio
(XXIVth) Legio is willing to do the bookings but I have recieved very
few (2 or 3) responses to my request for times and places. I have been
in contact with a young lady in New jersey who is anxious to arrange a
get-together, but I was unable to give her any information about the NR
feeling for such an event.. In addition to the Atlantic City draw,
there is Foxwoods which is only about 30 mintes from my front door.

Those in the North-Eastern Province and those on the perphery of such as
well as those willing to travel a few extra miles< I ask that you
contact me with dates that you would perfer to come to a get-together,
as well as your suggestions for the suitability of having meals prepared
at a central place like my home, sleeping arrangements as described, and
one big dinner together at a local restaurant. I make this plea in that
it would be worse to have an event where no-one attended than to have no
event at all. I should think that the cost for food in the above
instance would be about $5.00 to $10.00 for the two lunches and
Breakfast, with whatever you wanted to spend for the supper. The one
night sleeping could be accomodated in my house to the extent of
probably two couples and three others on a first come first serve basis.
The remainder could set up tents in my large front lawn, (i have one
tent for two people and two flies that could be set up) or go to local
motels. My wife who is a travel agent wold be willing to make up a
motel list to provide anyone desiring such. If you object to staying in
a private residence, then perhaps some kind of meeting place, church,
school, community center could be arranged.

For this project to go forth, I need to have some indication of interest
on the part of NR members in the area. To my best count until I recieve
the figures from the Censores on the current NR residents of this
Province, I believe that we are currently at about 7 member families,
with a further 7 or 8 in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and about 3-4 in
the Maryland / Delaware Area. That may be a little short but it is a
beginning based on my Eagle subscription list. I would ask each of
these citizens to send me a brief message indicating your interest in
such a get-together, or whether you would perfer a more expensive get
-together at Caesar's Palace in Atlantic City (probably $200-300 per
family--less for double occupancy--Final Pricing would be deterined by
the number of participants and the efforts of the organizer). The
following people have responded previously:

--Dexippus;
--Commander Gallio;
--Serena and Germanicus.

(If I missed anyone my apologies!!)

Thank you for your most kind attention to this message. By the way this
offer was repeated at the request of a good friend.

Valete, Nova Roma Citizens;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Municius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Taxes
From:	"Martins-Esteves" esteves@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:53:08 -0300

Salve M. Minuci
Avete Quirites



(Audens)
>I respectfully propose that anyone living outside the U.S, be allowed to
>join tax free, and maintain a citizenship tax free, so long as they
>shall wish to remain. I further suggest that these individuals be taken
>at their word, and as long as they wish they should remain members of
>NR. If anyone outside of the U.S. wishes to cntribute financially, then
>they can send a Traveler's Check to the Financial Quaestor..
(...)
>Cives, the people of the European and the other countries of the world
>are good people. We must, if we wish this NR to be truly
>international,, and I for one do, we must begin to take actions to break
>down long held barriers, stop petty in-fighting and receive those who
>are not as strong in English as we are with a generous and open hand.
>

I am sure that you, Audens, have the best intentions with your proposal,
but I honestly think that the problem of transfering currency is not so big,
and that every cives indistinctly in the world must pay taxes, if it must be
so. If some nationality has the obligation and the right to pay taxes, all
others must pay it too. Everyone must have the right to say: ' I am a tax
payer '.

As Publilius Syrus says:
beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere
i. e. to accept a benefit ist to sell your own freedom.

Valete

Atticus

Subject:	Re: First British Etcetera
From:	greenjacket@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:48:06 -0400

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:30:20 PDT "Nicolaus Moravius"
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
>From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
>Iterum salutem!
>
>Sic T. Fl. Saturninus:

>- A strange coincidence, this: or is somebody trying to tell us
>something?
>:-)
>
>- Any chance of a photograph of this shield, Saturninus? PLEASE?
>
>Valete bene, onmnes,
>
>Vado.

I can get a photograph taken, but I don't have access to a scanner, so
I'd have to snail mail it out. It did turn out well, but the she-wolf and
twins were something of a pain to do!
Ti. Flavius Saturninus
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
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>
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Subject:	(no subject)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:32:25 -0400 (EDT)

To Chrys;

In regard to money orders, things are really not that easy.
International Cashier's checks are utilized and the charge for those
services is significant (llike as much as you would send).

In my paying for some services in England and in Egypt, I was obliged to
use travelers checks in both cases, because the tarriff on the cashier's
checks exceeded the amount being sent. The reason for this is because
the cashier's checks are set up for larger transactions and smaller
transactions would become numerous in any other situation and so a limit
is kept on the procedure by a financial cap.

I have checked this procedure out in three banks,(where cashier's checks
are issued). and the cost is the same. If yu find a bank that will
charge a reasonable price for such, say 5% of the value of the Cashier's
Check then that would be a real help.

I must admit, however, that it has been a while since I checked and if
anyone has later or better information I would appreciate it.

In regard to the property in Mississippi, your thoughts were much
appreciated and most generous and I for one was most appreciative, as I
am sure all were in NR. However, something like that is a little bit
like donating a ship that needs a yard period before it can float. A
crew must be obtained, a license must be granted for use, and it must be
accessable for a good portion of the people involved. We have just gone
through a majo disruption in NR and before that it was difficult to get
a decision from the Senate on anything as they were being used to
review many many different projects as NR began to move toward it'sgoal
of an operating republic. If you intended to donate the property to NR
for re-sale to create the beginning of a fund for the purchase of a more
centrally located piece of land / real property then I guess I did not
understand that, and if that was so, I do apologize.

The offer of your home for a get-together was a most unselfish and
thoughtful thing to do, and it is my hope that those in your area will
be able to take you up on that. Alas. I probably will not be able to do
so,as I am too far away, but one never knows. If I do find myself in
the area, I would be most pleased to accept your hospitality.

Marcus Municious Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: To Crys
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:57:45 -0500

On 22 Sep 99, at 15:53, from Joanne at work wrote:

> How about the gents wearing veils out of respect for their wives women and
> us gals can let our long beautiful hair hang free :-) Warm regards from a
> chilly brussels, Joanne Agate (who hasn't taken a Roman name yet)

Hmmmmmmm, I can see Dex in something like a veil (I even saw
some gold lame' and thought of Dex). But I doubt the gents would
go for it. But perhaps some sort of ring or something. Our
wedding rings (we wear 2, one on the right ring finger and one on
the left ring finger) were provided by Pythia and I just LOVE them.
On our right hands we wear the Julian coin rings and on our left
hands we wear the Roman Betrothal rings (Pythia, correct me if I
am wrong). The betrothal rings were more than reasonably priced.
LOL, I now feel I have the wealth of Rome on my hands. Gold,
platinum and silver <G>.

Perhaps when Nova Roman men are married they could do that?
Unless Brooks Brothers would be willing to supply us with nice
Business Togas <G>

Crys

Subject:	Re: Taxes
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:50:17 -0400

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii




>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>So, in this discussion, about taxes, I had a thought regarding the
>English speaking countries, and perhaps I can put that thought before
>the forum. Should any such country (England, Canada, Ireland or
>Australia) have only one or two members in NR, then they should be
>afforded the same priveledge as others outside these countries (no dues
>/ taxes). When the population in any given country reaches three or
>more then dues / taxes will be required. In non-English speakin
>countries when the number of members reaches 4 or 5 then that country
>will be able to pay dues / taxes as well
>
>What think you????

I think that you're on to something good here.

I hope that you will put this proposal before the Senate as newly elected
Praetor Urbanus soon. After all, the only legitimate way to impose a tax on
anyone, anglophone or other, here in NR would be by means of a Senatus
consultum. And such a Senatus consultum could really only be issued after
the Senate comes up with a budget that shows how much money we need.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
>
>Marcus Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>

Subject:	Image distribution was Re: First British Etcetera
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:01:53 -0400

Salvete Tiberi Flavi et alii

I have a scanner and would be happy to receive a picture from you by snail
mail, then scan and distribute it to whatever e-mail addresses you like.

I would be happy to do the same thing for other Novoromani who have
Roman-related pictures but no scanners.

Send me an e-mail at <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> if you're interested in doing
that.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192056078020169102159077249165108048139046" >green--------et@--------</a>
>
>

>I can get a photograph taken, but I don't have access to a scanner, so
>I'd have to snail mail it out. It did turn out well, but the she-wolf and
>twins were something of a pain to do!
>Ti. Flavius Saturninus

Subject:	Re: Taxes
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:13:57 -0400 (EDT)

My Dear Atticus;

I believe that earlier in my message from which you took your excerpt, I
mentioned that anyone who was an NR member could pay the taxes if they
felt the need. If I did not say that it certainly was an omission that
I regret.

You yourself are a case in point. As an English-Speaking person outside
the English -speaking countries,(my assumption) you have the full
benifit of membership except perhaps the opportunity to visit
get-gethers on this continent. As such I would expect that you would
pay your fair share to NR should such a tax be introduced. But others
from countries other than the English-Speaking countries who are members
of NR but do not have English like two members of my Gens in Hungary,
must enjoy NR in a secondary manner through translation. They are not
lesser people in any way for not having English, but rather do not enjoy
fully the exchange as you or I do. I think and my proposal reflects
this, that NR should give some consideration to these people. That the
topic is important, as has already been proven with the loss of several
citizens because of this situation.

I don't think it is the intention of anyone here in NR to cast anyone
into slavery, in order to give them a break. That was not the purpose
of the proposal. It was as you so very kindly said, "well meant". May
I most respectfully suggest that if you disagree with my proposal that
you work out a counterproposal taking into consideration those in NR not
having English and propose a fair way to make some kind of consideration
that appeals to them. Since you have a clearer view of such from your
standing outside the U.S. I await your comments with anticipation.

I believe that you must admit that many non-Americans consider the U.S.
to be less than sympathetic to the world's problems outside of U.S.
boundaries. One of my efforts since I have first gone to a foriegn
country many years ago was tio dispell this feeling in some very small
and insignificant way. I am still working on that premise.

Vale, Atticus;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Auens.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Brussels
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0400 (EDT)

I had the opportunity to spend a weekend in Brussels a few years ago,
and it was most entertaining and beautiful. We took a bus tour and
visted all the place of historic interest and I ask rd the Consierge of
the Hotel where we were staying how to get to Waterloo. He dismissed my
request by saying that the tours to Waterloo were over for the season.

I said in Return, "I didn't ask you about a tour, I asked about how to
get there!" He seemed quite surprised at my response and indicated that
the only way was by bus or taxi and the taxi would be very expensive.
My response was,"How do you get to Waterloo??!!??" He considered me for
a moment and gave me precise directions and told me to tell the driver
to let us off at the "Lion" When I asked him what that meant he said,"
you will see"

We followed the directions and the bus driver nodded to my message. I
do not speak either French or Flemish and I was understandably
concerned.that I had made some mistake After a bus ride through the
thriving city of Waterloo what should loom on the horizon but a gigantic
lion on a hill. The bus stopped at the Lion as requested and here was a
hill raised it is said by the women of Belgium for a base on which to
place the Lion. On top of the hill it is lined with flagstones and on a
huge pedestal stands the huge bronze Flemish Lion made it is said by
recasting the artillery captured from Napoleans forces at the Battle of
Waterloo. From the top of the Lion one could see the carefully
preserved farm lands where the battle was fought.

When we returned from our all day trip, The Lion and two large museums,
I told the Concierge about our day, ad he seemed quite astonished saying
that he had never known a American to go to such trouble to see the
Lion. When we checked out the Concierge Staff presened me with a
portrait of Napolean the 1st, autographed by Napolean the 7th or 8th who
at that time I believe lived nearby or in Brussels.

The restuarants were simply great, and I have never since seen shrimp of
such size. One shrimp sliced length wise into three fillets made a
delicious meal. The man who owned the restaurant was from Algeria and
indicated that the shrimp came from a small area in the Eastern
Mediterranean. The chocolate shos were lucious and the coffee shos were
cozy and quaint. It is to be hoped that we ca travel there again soon.
I thought that you might be interested in this story. Both my wife and
I were certainly surprised at the gift from the hotel!!!

Vale, Marcus Audens;.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Imperium L Cornelio Sulla
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:25:37 -0400

Salvete Pontifex Maxime Marce Cassi et alii

When are you going to convene the Comitia Curiata to invest Sulla with
imperium? If today is a nundina, which I believe that it is, then it must
be announced today. Right?

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	Daniel Dreesbach dreesbach@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT)

I agree in that 10 year service is a long time for a
lessor magistrate. It is a good one for consul.

But even military service may not mean a lot to some
people. I am in the Navy. Something happened to one
of my fellow sailors. She is not with us anymore.
This perpatrator was also a fellow sailor( medical
person).

Gaius Iunius Germanus
--- Nicolaus Moravius <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> wrote:
> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salvete!
>
> Scripsit Audens:
>
> >Mucius Scraeola Magister;
> >
> >In your comment " the requirement for for 10 years
> military service is
> >not reasonable" may not be accurate. There are
> several ex-miitary men
> >in this organization to which such a requirement
> would apply. Cut the
> >requirement from 10 years to two years, and expand
> the field of service
> >to appointed positions within NR or appointed or
> elected positions in
> >other similar organizations. Local city
> government, re-enactment units
> >, youth organizations, other volunteer
> organizations in which the
> >candidate has held a position of responsibility,
> chairmen, board
> >members, officers, etc. After all the basic idea
> is to season people in
> >the experience of service in order to provde them
> with the basic
> >Leadership tools. Those tools and that service
> experience can be gained
> >from many organizations.
>
> - the notion of a qualification of at least 2 years'
> experience with the
> Armed Forces or other organisation of probity and
> honour seems an excellent
> idea to me. We should be making the best use
> possible of the considerable
> pool of organisational experience that exists among
> our citizens (though I
> am well aware we already have some in executive
> offices with such valuable
> experience), rather than allowing ourselves the
> doubtful luxury of letting
> young tyros cut their executive teeth on our
> respublica, the way some other
> micronations seem to.
>
> I would suggest a minimum qualification of 2 years
> for Quastors and Aediles,
> rising to 10 years for a Consul.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Vado.
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
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> send PHOTO Greetings
> at Zing.com! Use your own photos or choose from a
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>
>
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>

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:58:52 -0500 (CDT)

Military service in any given country should have absolutely nothing
to do with who can run for what office within Nova Roma ever. Internal
prerequisites may evolve later on but I find the suggestion as stands is
way out in left field. The same for service in outside social
clubs/organizations that have nothing to do with us as a group.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:07:57 +0100

Salvete

I remind you that in some countries where not every citizen goes through
military service. Portugal is an example. I and the majority of young men
who were born in 1972/1973 were exempt from military service because the
Portuguese Army had no need for more soldiers in that year of conscription.
Does this mean that I won't have the possibility of being a Consul?

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis et coetera

Subject:	Re: To Crys
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:06:00 EDT

In a message dated 9/22/99 11:19:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> writes:

<< Hmmmmmmm, I can see Dex in something like a veil (I even saw
some gold lame' and thought of Dex). But I doubt the gents would
go for it. >>

I only wear a veil at funerals...and weddings!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:48:11 -0500

A dishonorable term of service would seem to me less of a
qualification than an honorable term doing something else. Would
Officer service mean yet more than enlisted? Would enlisted
service in the UK mean more than officer service in the Congo?
Since few women have military service, this would also have the
defacto effect of sexual discrimination.

Rather like having a motherhood qualification. Course then we
would be discriminating against our small number of virgins....

Perhaps we should have an age qualification, and then leave the
rest to the voters?

Gaius Mamertinus
Old and with a service background.


On 22 Sep 99, at 5:45, Nicolaus Moravius wrote:

> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salvete!
>
> Scripsit Audens:
>
> >Mucius Scraeola Magister;
> >
> >In your comment " the requirement for for 10 years military service is
> >not reasonable" may not be accurate. There are several ex-miitary men in
> >this organization to which such a requirement would apply. Cut the
> >requirement from 10 years to two years, and expand the field of service
> >to appointed positions within NR or appointed or elected positions in
> >other similar organizations. Local city government, re-enactment units ,
> >youth organizations, other volunteer organizations in which the candidate
> >has held a position of responsibility, chairmen, board members, officers,
> >etc. After all the basic idea is to season people in the experience of
> >service in order to provde them with the basic Leadership tools. Those
> >tools and that service experience can be gained from many organizations.
>
> - the notion of a qualification of at least 2 years' experience with the
> Armed Forces or other organisation of probity and honour seems an
> excellent idea to me. We should be making the best use possible of the
> considerable pool of organisational experience that exists among our
> citizens (though I am well aware we already have some in executive offices
> with such valuable experience), rather than allowing ourselves the
> doubtful luxury of letting young tyros cut their executive teeth on our
> respublica, the way some other micronations seem to.
>
> I would suggest a minimum qualification of 2 years for Quastors and
> Aediles, rising to 10 years for a Consul.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Vado.
>
>

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:52:50 -0500

On 22 Sep 99, at 11:58, Dean Troy wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
> Military service in any given country should have absolutely nothing to
> do with who can run for what office within Nova Roma ever. Internal
> prerequisites may evolve later on but I find the suggestion as stands is
> way out in left field. The same for service in outside social
> clubs/organizations that have nothing to do with us as a group.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>
>

Drawing from recent US history, can anyone tell me what military
service Franklin Delano Roosevelt had? Heck, he was crippled with
polio while he was in the White House. By comparison Hitler had
medals, and in Germany people with polio were put down for the
good of the Race. Course we know who won that one. Life is
complex, and we should trust our voters. Even when they "elect"
someone like Sulla.

Gaius Mamertinus
Don Meaker


>

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:19:41 -0700

Nicolaus Moravius wrote:

> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>
> Salvete!
>
> Scripsit Audens:
>
> >Mucius Scraeola Magister;
> >
> >In your comment " the requirement for for 10 years military service is
> >not reasonable" may not be accurate. There are several ex-miitary men
> >in this organization to which such a requirement would apply. Cut the
> >requirement from 10 years to two years, and expand the field of service
> >to appointed positions within NR or appointed or elected positions in
> >other similar organizations. Local city government, re-enactment units
> >, youth organizations, other volunteer organizations in which the
> >candidate has held a position of responsibility, chairmen, board
> >members, officers, etc. After all the basic idea is to season people in
> >the experience of service in order to provde them with the basic
> >Leadership tools. Those tools and that service experience can be gained
> >from many organizations.
>
> - the notion of a qualification of at least 2 years' experience with the
> Armed Forces or other organisation of probity and honour seems an excellent
> idea to me. We should be making the best use possible of the considerable
> pool of organisational experience that exists among our citizens (though I
> am well aware we already have some in executive offices with such valuable
> experience), rather than allowing ourselves the doubtful luxury of letting
> young tyros cut their executive teeth on our respublica, the way some other
> micronations seem to.

Sulla: I dont think we should have this requirement at all. For a couple of
reasons. First, I have never, nor would ever go in the military. My focus has
always been in the field of higher education.....Since I graduated High
School...in 1990, I have been in College every year for the past 9 years... In
that time I achieved an Associates Degree in Paralegal Studies and a Bachelors
Degree in Political Science with an emphasis in Public Administration.
Finally, reaching its conclusion in 1998, with a Masters Degree in Business
Adminstration with an emphasis in Entrepreneurial Management and Intrapreneurial
Management. So, if something like this was ever enacted, which I hope it will
not be, there must be exemptions for individuals who focus on education as
opposed to the military.

But the fundamental reason why I am against it, is quite simple. To be in the
military does not guarantee briliance and leadership capabalities. All I
believe it does is to limit the pool of potential office holders. Everyone has
a right to seek office within the bounds of various Edicta, and laws that are
currently on the "tablets." There is no reason, I feel to restrict that any
further. Heck, we have not even had a full year in which all offices in Nova
Roma have been filled. At the very least this discussion is very premature.

P.S. My educations still isnt complete....I still plan to attend law school and
obtain a J. D. Degree in Laws...but that is still sometime in the future. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

>
>
> I would suggest a minimum qualification of 2 years for Quastors and Aediles,
> rising to 10 years for a Consul.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Vado.
>
>

Subject:	Image distribution
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:13:04 -0400

Message: 21
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:01:53 -0400
Subject: Image distribution was Re: First British Etcetera

Salvete, Quirites

I too have a scanner and would be glad to receive a picture(s) from you by snail
mail, scan and distribute them to whatever e-mail addresses you like.

I would be happy to do the same thing for other Novoromani who have
Roman-related pictures but no scanners. No Probamo ;-)

S--------r--------sts to <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=081056091108082153015038190036129" >v--------l@--------</a> Val-------- Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
OR
Send me an e-mail at <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> if you're interested in doing
that. Valete, Gaius Marius Merullus

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192056078020169102159077249165108048139046" >green--------et@--------</a>
>I can get a photograph taken, but I don't have access to a scanner, so
>I'd have to snail mail it out. It did turn out well, but the she-wolf and
>twins were something of a pain to do! Ti. Flavius Saturninus

Subject:	Africa
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:51:06 -0500

Salvete,

Does anyone know how far the Romans got into Africa?

Pax,

Crys

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:47:25 -0400 (EDT)

In my proposal for a Service qualification for Magistrates, the
organizations which I quoted were possibilities and did not rule out any
organization which teaches dicipline, and organization, and provides an
opportunity for the participants to be in a position of authority for
the arrangement of activities and meeting scheduled deadlines.

I am service oriented, and a great part of what makes me whom I am, has
been responsible to the willingness of the Naval Service to let me find
my place within it. The above items listed are a part of miitary life,
and any who come out of a naval career ,after several years service,
soon recognize that fact in civilian life. The other organizations
named were mentioned for the same reason. The SCA which Venator is
involved with and serves as a senior impression, I dare say has similar
requirements. It will be diffcult to find other organizations that
"have something to do" with Nova Roma who offer these attributes. I am
sure. If they exist, I am not aware of them. Perhaps someone else is.

If your counrty does not have an active military, that simply means that
that particular aspect is not open to you. It has nothing to do with
your standing for Consul. I am not sure why you jump to these
conclusions Amice, we are just talking here. You may not agree, but I
think that we can agree to disagree.

Of course a dishonorable military service background is not
satisfactory. Nor is one person who commits a crime eligable for
service. However, the service is there. I have stated my service
credits and you have indicated what you think of them and that is fair.
However, they are believable and they are fact. They are provided for
your use. Your acceptance or lack of acceptance does not alter in one
small iota the experience tat lies in back of them and this is what we
are discussing It does not change the fact that the service is there.
It does not change the fact that the service listed provided me with
skills in communication, organization, leadership,
counseling,,instruction, and avariety of other skills as well as a good
educaton.

I will share with you another item that was passed on to me in service.
Do not raise a complaint (unless an emergency) merely to raise a
complaint. Put with it an idea or two of how to deal with it , rather
than spend your energy being negative without contibuting to the
question.

It may be that the organizations I named are not suitable to NR, for a
variety of reasons, but age is not any better indicator either, since
the element of age that we are looking for encommpasses those items
listed above. Younger people generally bristle at this limitation, and
upon later experience wonder how you ever got through life without
gettig killed. I didn't like the idea of age limitation either , but
when I got to a command position, I was very glad of it as I would have
been in constant trouble because of my lack of sklls.

This situation is like many problems there is no perfect answer, but I
agree wholeheartedly that I would like to see some background in an
candidate for office that indicates that he / she has the best interests
of NR at heart and that they have some idea of what they are doing.

In the case of Graecus, if I may be so bold as to use you for an
example) you have proven to me many times over your interest in NR, and
from your ideas and sucesses in NR you obviously know what you are
doing. You are just a teeny bit hot-headed but I can live with that,
because I know that is overall to my benefit. The rest of you who
entered into the thread all have shown me your interest and ability from
your posts, and I would have no problem with any of you, perhaps with
the exception of Chys's husband. I simply do not know him very well and
what I do know is disrupted by his late fued with one of the officers n
NR. That is not to say that I think he is a bad person in any way, I
just don't know. An indication though that he can put up with Chrys
(Grin) is one that indicaes that he has the patience of Job (Grin again)

Valete, Romans
Thank-You for following this thread;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:03:16 -0400 (EDT)

To Sulla;
Salve, Consul Sulla;

The acquisition of a higher education in and of itself meets the
criteria for all the items mentioned in the former message. I have a
Masters with Distinction in Education myself which I gained after I
completed y naval service. The reason I did not mention education
previously was because I tend to deal with hands-on activities as they
seem more clear cut.

I can see from this thread, that there are several who do not see
Military Service as a key to Magistrate qualification. That is fine,
but it does not change the fact that the opportunities are there, and
that virtually anyone reaching a senior NCO status or above has been
required to exercise those attributes spoken of previously. It was a
suggestion, and I am sure that all of your following thi thread will be
able to provide much better examples in it's stead.

Vale, Consul Sulla;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:28:24 -0400

Salvete Luci Corneli et alii

I agree with our esteemed consul (whom I esteem despite the lack of
imperium). Military service may be a plus, a qualification to present to
the voters in the course of campaigns. But it should not be a prerequisite
for candidates to office in Nova Roma.

The cursus honorum, if we adhere to it, will provide a means of shielding us
from grossly incompetent/corrupt/otherwise unsuitable senior magistrates.
In order for it to work, more people have to run for, and serve in, the
lower offices. Right now, there is an opportunity to serve as a scribe to
the censors. That is another way to contribute to NR and build some
experience.

I hope that lots of people will run for offices of quaestor and aedile at
the end of the year. It is extremely important to NR's future that we fill
all these offices and cooperate within their framework to build NR.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus


>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>
>
>Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
>
>> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
>>
>> >
>> - the notion of a qualification of at least 2 years' experience with the
>> Armed Forces or other organisation of probity and honour seems an
excellent
>> idea to me. We should be making the best use possible of the considerable
>> pool of organisational experience that exists among our citizens (though
I
>> am well aware we already have some in executive offices with such
valuable
>> experience), rather than allowing ourselves the doubtful luxury of
letting
>> young tyros cut their executive teeth on our respublica, the way some
other
>> micronations seem to.
>
>Sulla: I dont think we should have this requirement at all. For a couple
of
>reasons. First, I have never, nor would ever go in the military. My focus
has
>But the fundamental reason why I am against it, is quite simple. To be in
the
>military does not guarantee briliance and leadership capabalities. All I
>believe it does is to limit the pool of potential office holders. Everyone
has
>a right to seek office within the bounds of various Edicta, and laws that
are
>currently on the "tablets." There is no reason, I feel to restrict that
any
>further. Heck, we have not even had a full year in which all offices in
Nova
>Roma have been filled. At the very least this discussion is very
premature.
>
>P.S. My educations still isnt complete....I still plan to attend law school
and
>obtain a J. D. Degree in Laws...but that is still sometime in the future.
:)
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla
>Consul
>
>>
>>
>> I would suggest a minimum qualification of 2 years for Quastors and
Aediles,
>> rising to 10 years for a Consul.
>>
>> Valete bene,
>>

Subject:	Re: Africa
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:54 -0400

Salvete Crystallina et alii

The Romans acquired the Africa province by defeating Cartago in the second
Punic war, I believe, in the middle Republic. The Africa province at that
time consisted of a smallish chunk of land in what is now Libya (called
Barqah or something like that?). A century and a half or so later the
Republican Romans went to war with Iugurtha of Numidia (see "War Against
Iugurtha" by Sallust) to win that kingdom, which was west of Africa
province. I believe that Mauretania, further west, was handed to the Romans
without an armed conflict, as was Egypt (unless one considers Actium and the
conflict of Antonius and Cleopatra against Octavian/Augustus to be defense
of Egypt from Roman rule) in the twilight of the Republic. Egypt was
exceptional, in that it was never subject to senatorial jurisdiction, but
belonged to the Emperor right from the start of the Principate.

The Roman rule would have extended farthest south in Egypt, I believe to the
Nile river estuary. For more information on Roman rule in Africa and Egypt,
you could look at "Provinces of the Roman Empire" by Theodor Mommsen. It is
a boring book, but the author is recognized as one of the great scholars of
Roman history.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus



>From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
>Salvete,
>
>Does anyone know how far the Romans got into Africa?
>
>Pax,
>
>Crys

Subject:	Re: Service Qualification for Magistracies
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:35:05 EDT

Salvete Omnes!

Is there not something a bit self-defeating in this proposal? You can't
get enough people to serve in the magistracies and other jobs and yet
you're already discussing job requirements that would have the effect of
preventing some people from serving. And some of the requirements sound
silly and arbitrary. Military service in some macronation's armed forces,
while it might be laudable and honorable, has nothing whatsoever to do
with determining anyone's ability to serve Nova Roma well. It might be an
advantage or not, but it most certainly should not be a requirement.

How about a return to reality-based thinking here?

Valete,

L. Sergius Aust.


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Taxes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:35:12 EDT

Thank you, Atticus, for this comment. It states much more nicely what I
was about to say. The idea of taxing one group of citizens to support the
State, while exempting all other citizens because someone in charge is
too lazy to work out a system, is unacceptable -- to put it mildly.

No-one has mentioned yet how collecting money might affect our tax exempt
status in the U. S. -- is that not a problem?

I agree with the idea of taxes, perhapos with allowances for the ability
of some to pay, but not with the idea of exempting whole provinces
because it might cost us some conversion fees to collect from them.

L. Sergius Aust.

On 9/22/99 8:53 AM Martins-Esteves (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a>) wrote:

>I am sure that you, Audens, have the best intentions with your proposal,
>but I honestly think that the problem of transfering currency is not so big,
>and that every cives indistinctly in the world must pay taxes, if it must be
>so. If some nationality has the obligation and the right to pay taxes, all
>others must pay it too. Everyone must have the right to say: ' I am a tax
>payer '.
>
>As Publilius Syrus says:
>beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere
>i. e. to accept a benefit ist to sell your own freedom.
>
>Valete
>
>Atticus


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)