Subject:	'Nother 'Netiquette reminder
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:52:58 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes...

As a general rule, it is considered poor form to post entire quoted
letters with only a one-line response; especially if said response
consists mostly or entirely of corrections to the original sender's
spelling or grammar and not a discussion of the actual issue.

A good rule of thumb is, if the message is shorter than the
header...wait until you have more to say; if shorter than the .sig
block, you either need a longer post or a shorter .sig block.

No offense intended, and none taken...
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka Märia Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, ``}`^~``,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'

Subject:	Re: ATTN: EDICTA FOR COMITIA CENTURIATA
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:49:40 -0700 (PDT)

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> wrote:
> Salvete!
>
> I am pleased to announce that the cista is now open
> and available for
> citizens to cast their votes.

Excuse me, but I always thought voting took place in
the Saepta, not a cista.

L. Licinius Varro Murena

Subject:	SALVETE!
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:27:10 EDT

Today the citizens began to vote and I'd like to take this opportunity to
remind you why to vote for Q. Fabius Maximus for Praetor Urbanus.
I. Piety. I am a pagan. I have no other conflicts in my Religio. I have no
choice to ever make. And even though some people claim that being a
practitioner of Religio is not necessary to be Praetor Urbanus, I disagree.
We want the favor of the gods to shine on the magistrate in office. At least
I would want that.
II. Duty. I foresaw that Roma would need a due structure, and after a
fevered speech in the Forum convinced L. Cornelius Sulla, and later M.
Muincius Audens to draft proposed leges to cover the neglect. Even though
the Cassian Senate tabled the item, this is something that needs to be done,
and the legislation enacted. Now that we have the more open Vedian Senate,
that time is at hand.
I wish to work with the other Praetor Marcus Mucius Scaevola in defining a
civil law structure for NR. (our own table of XII rules). Marcus Mucius has
already made an excellent start on the rather voluminous subject but it to
must be seen to its completion.
III Honor. I have never given up on making NR work. I have never resigned
my citizenship, no matter what the provocation and I have never stopped
praying to the gods.
IV. Ability. Any citizen that would need me to represent them in the court
once we get our civil law system in place, consider this, I'm an excellent
debater, I placed in the "masters" category all three seasons while in HS,
and I speak and write very well. And if both our Consuls were disabled, the
Gods forbid, I could step into their shoes with no hesitation and no fear.
Being that I'm in my late 30s, my health and well being is excellent.
V. Accessibility. I'm one of the most accessible persons here at Nova Roma.
My job keeps me on line most of the day, and I can usually answer questions
about Ancient Roman history and Nova Roman history. If I cannot, I'll know
where to get the answer.
VI. Wealth. If Nova Roma has financial problems, I am sufficiently well off
allowing me to dip into my personal funds to cover emergencies on a temporary
basis.
Thank you for your attention.
Fortuna preserve our fair Republic.
Velete
Q. Fabius Maximus, Patrician, Paterfamilias, Curule Aedilis
Candidate for Praetor Urbanus.

Subject:	Re: SALVETE!
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:25:11 EDT

Can't remember my voter code. Where can I get this?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Seniors
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:02:28 -0500

Salvete,

For the Sodalis Familiaris:

Does anyone have any information on ancient Roman Seniors?
Pretty much anything is welcome and you will get the proper notice
in the Sodalis.

BTW I am also now accepting applications from anyone who might
want to be in the Sodalis who thought themselves limited because
of age or lack of a family. This would include anyone who
considers themselves a "Senior" (which for me means anyone over
115 years old <G>, but if you consider yourself one, please join us -
-- experience is always welcome).

The pages have not been uploaded just yet, but I'm probably going
to get to it within the next hour or so.

<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net</a>

Pax,

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Materna

Subject:	Re: SALVETE!
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:08:48 -0500

On 5 Oct 99, --------:25, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

>
> Can't remember my voter code. Where can I get this?
>
> --Dexippus

Couldn't there be something on the website where we could recover
our voter codes. Like make up our own password or something.
Then have the voter code emailed to us? I still have mine (I think)
but I don't know when I will lose it and printing it out and saving it is
almost a laughable idea around here (things get sacrificed to the
VCR god a lot these days <G>).

How about it?

Crystallina Materna

Subject:	Pages (crossposted)
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:40:33 -0500

Salvete everyone,

This is going to many lists, so if you receive it more than once,
please forgive. I have just redone several pages and thought some
of you might be interested to see myself and learn something
about me <G>.

Pax,

Crys

My Sodalis <a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net</a>

Personal Page <a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/familia" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/familia</a>

Subject:	Elections
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:43:33 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens Of NR;

I stand in Forum not to talk about myself, but rather to talk about you,
the citizens of Nova Roma.. This is your election. This is your
opportunity to provide yourselves with someone who will work for you in
the months to come, and someone who will listen and respond to your
questions and comments, and operate for you within the government.

The argument that the magistratres should all be members of the Roman
Religio is an appealing one, except for the small point that it is not
required by the Nova Roma Constitution. Now, if I am correct, I believe
ttat the Religio Romana serves in many ways, of course, but in one of
those ways, it serves as a guide to those who are believers in the
things that they do. Since the framers of both the first and the second
constitutions saw fit under the guidance of your gods to exclude the
requirement to be a member of the Religio, then as I respect the Gods of
Rome, I see no reason to question thier wisdom.. It is not required and
the Gods Of Rome have apparently been satisfied, otherwise I would not
be here.. I do not mean any disrespect by my statements, but they are
simply a reflection of the beautiful logic that I see in your religious
instituions. Nova Roma is open to all regardless of religion or race.
Should we now begin to set a precedent that only members of the Religio
may apply for office. If I read my E-Mail correctly (and I read every
message) I do not think that is the thrust of what Nova Romans want. I
think they are proud to be open to all as well as to be free to worship
as they see fit. I know I am. My respect for the Roman Gods is well
documented on the Web-Page, and I do not think that what altar a person
prays at in Nova Roma has any real invovement in political endeavors.
However, should it ever come to that I can claim the friendship and the
promised assistance of The Pontifex Maximus, and some of the College of
Pontiffs to assist me. I have begun in the last issue of Eagle a
monthly report of the College Of Pontiffs which is written by the
Pontifex Maximus himself.

In regards to debating, I would remind the citizens that on several
occasions My friend Q. Fabius and I debated elements of concern to NR
and I believe we both recieved remarks of appreciation from all sides.
It is true that Fabius is an excellent debater, but debating necessarily
has an ele,ment of personality that sometimes detracts from the needs of
the citizens. I can certainly debate if I am called upon to do so for
the benefit of the citizens, but I also have the skill to listen and
assist citizens in arriving at what they need. It takes a little more
time and effort, to be sure,, but a satisfied or inspired citizen is a
mark of success to me.

I sincerely hope that my friend Q. Fabius is never subjected to the
cruelty and the venomous attack to which I was subjected by a former NR
friend, at the outbreak of the "Social Wars.". The name does not matter
as that person is no longer in Nova Roma. I was told that I was no
longer welcme here and that if I tried to remain the NR would combine
against me. In a moment of confusion, anger and grief, I sent a message
that I was resigning. My friends immediately contacted me and asked me
to reconsider and return, These were the same friends who have supported
me in ths campaign. I heeded thier words, and I recinded my resignation
and came back. Due to a reshuffling of Offices, under the Dictatorship
I lost the Office of Questor to which I had been elected and was
required to request re-enstatement to the position of Commander of the
Sodalitas Militum which was granted., I was then requested by the
Dictator Germanicus to consider taking over the job as Eagle Editor.and
I supposed that that confidence had done away with my momentary lapse..
I went before the people and apologized publicly, and applied for the
appointment as clerk to the Senior Consul in order to complete my work
on the Budget which is now finished. You will remember that two
prominant members of our government in the past have resigned and
returned without the loss of priveledge or station. I was not so
fortunate. You will also remember at least one incident in NR history
where an apology was all that was required by the Senate for actions of
a Citizen not in keeping with his position. Based on those precedents
I thought I had paid my debt to NR, for my actions. Perhaps I have
missed something..

For me to assure you of my ability, in my opinion, is akin to singing a
lullaby to a child. Citizens of NR are perfectly capable of deciding on
my ability from the past list of accomplishments both in and out of NR,
and they do not require my assurance of that fact. I honor Q. Fabius
for his achievements in High School, and with his statements of
excellece, perhaps you will allow me some small items from my past that
were not mentioned previously:in my announcement of Candidacy.

--InPort Command Duty Officer-55o ft Naval auxilery ship (1500 man
crew)--USN;
--At Sea Officer of the Deck--USN
--5 inch Naval Artillery Single Mount Safety Officer--USN;
--3.5 inch Naval Artillery Twin Mount Safety Officer--USN;
--Nuclear Weapons Handling Officer--USN;;
--Division Officer--57 men--4 torpedo shops--USN;
--Naval Intructor--USN;
--Naval Instruction Schoo;l Instructor--USN;;
--Bachelor's Degree with Honors;in History;
--Master's Degree with Distinction in Reading and Education;;
--California Teaching Credential for History in High School Grades;;
--California Teaching Credential for Englsh in the High School Grades;;
--Boy Scouts Of America-Silver Beaver Award and Woodbadge Graduate as
well as three time instructor at Woodbadge (Advanced Adult Training--BSA
Leadership Series);
--Holder of a Naval Architecture Design Manager's Certification from the
Institute of Certified Professional Managers .

While wealth is nice to have and makes things very convienient, I
believe that the citizens of Nova Roma do not have to depend upon the
charity of any magistrate, but rather I have the faith in this NR to
solve it's financial problems with fairness to all, and without
resorting to personal donations..

Alas, I am no longer a young man, nor am I a particularly beautiful
man., but it has been said that there are some advantages to experience,
expecially when tempered with education service, and proven skills. I
do not fear to undertake any task in NR when I have the NR Citizenship
behind me;, be it in the normal course of business or an emergency. .

In closing my friends, I first of all ask that you will make a concerted
effort to cast your vote. Show the world that Nova Roma cares about
that privelege. Cast your vote for the candidfate that you believe will
do the best for you and what you want from NR. I have confidence that
you will choose what is best for you and for NR as voters neary always
do. Dictators and Demagogues may come and go, but the sure feel of an
electorate for what is right and proper is the basis of any society that
embraces universal sufferage, and equality..

I thank you for your kind attention to this rather lengthy political
discussion.

Marcius Minucius Audens, Patrician, Paterfamilias, Former Quaestor,
Eagle Editr and Candidate for Praetor.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Netiquette
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:08:46 -0500

Salvete,

Would it be too much to request that the reference to "Poles" be
removed from the voter page. It's cute and everything, but I thought
this was serious and deserving of a quick run-through with the spell-
checker at least by the webmasters.

Crystallina Materna (mother of an 8th Pole who isn't running for
anything nor open for voters)

YES that was supposed to be a funny --- mostly

Subject:	Re: 'Nother 'Netiquette reminder
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:16:37 -0400 (EDT)

To Fimbria:

Good comment. Another consideration is that those of us who use a small
laser board do not get the quality of a full-fledged computer and as a
result some misspellings occur, which require the repeated review of the
message and even then the message usually is not perfect. The important
aspect of this seems to be communication within NR, and not the
spell-checking of words. I fear that were all of Nova Roma to held to
that rule many of us would be unable to participate.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Concerning the Praetor's Race... (was: Salvete!)
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:40:11 EDT

Salvete,

The current race for Praetor is definitely an interesting one. Certainly it
is one of the few real "races" we've had! Hopefully many Citizens will turn
out to vote.

Both Q. Fabius and Marcus Audens have proven themselves to be interested,
active and competent Citizens. There can be little doubt that each is capable
of doing an admirable job in the Praetor position, and that both will go on
to other successful elected positions in Nova Roma! Whichever of them wins
will be worthy of the support of all Citizens as Praetor.

And, that being said, I hope that I can safely make some personal comments on
the most recent campaign posting:

In --------ss--------d-------- 10/5/99 2:27:24 AM P--------ic D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

> Q. Fabius:
I. Piety. I am a pagan. I have no other conflicts in my Religio. I have no
choice to ever make. And even though some people claim that being a
practitioner of Religio is not necessary to be Praetor Urbanus, I disagree.
We want the favor of the gods to shine on the magistrate in office. At
least
I would want that.

Cassius:
Since Nova Roma has both Pagan and non-Pagan Citizens, a candidate's personal
religion will hopefully have little bearing in the secular public
magistracies. The Pax Deorum is being looked after within the structure of
the Religio Romana, after all, so the other governmental positions are open
to all so long as they're willing to take the Oath. Marcus Audens has been
supportive of the Religio and has been willing to take the oath. We have had
a non-Pagan Consul and have non-Pagans in the Senate; precedent has shown
that Nova Roma is open to all so long as they are willing to work alongside
the public religion. This will allow a mixture that will help us to maintain
a balanced course.

As a trailer to this, I sincerely invite Q. Fabius to volunteer for a
Priesthood position if he can manage it on a concurrent basis with his
public political career. His insight and piety would be valued within the
public structure of the Religio. :)

Fabius:
II. Duty. I foresaw that Roma would need a due structure, and after a
fevered speech in the Forum convinced L. Cornelius Sulla, and later M.
Muincius Audens to draft proposed leges to cover the neglect. Even though
the Cassian Senate tabled the item, this is something that needs to be done,
and the legislation enacted. Now that we have the more open Vedian Senate,
that time is at hand.

Cassius:
The original tax plan presented to the "Cassian Senate" was of course
discussed, but didn't make it to a formal vote because it was unworkable.
This was primarily because it did not adequately address some critical
working details such as the problem of foreign banking. The matter was put
aside most especially since there were several other people who *did* want
taxation at the time, although I wasn't then included among them. These
included then-Consul Lucius Equetius Cincinnatus, who was I believe the
person to first raise the very idea of taxation in NR. Better the issue be
"tabled" for reworking rather than voted down entirely.

Happily, many of the working problems have been solved right here in the
Public Forum... such as the idea of American Express traveler's checks being
used in place of a foreign currency exchange, and our friends in the
Brittania Provincia graciously volunteering to handle some of the more
difficult overseas funds. Whoever next brings a tax plan before the current
"Vedian" senate will have many of the old difficulties from the previous plan
already solved.

Q. Fabius:
>I wish to work with the other Praetor Marcus Mucius Scaevola in defining a
civil law structure for NR. (our own table of XII rules). Marcus Mucius has
already made an excellent start on the rather voluminous subject but it to
must be seen to its completion.

Cassius:
Question, isn't there a "Law Committee" to at least assist with this?
Hopefully more than the two Praetors will be involved with creating a system
of laws.

Q. Fabius:
III Honor. I have never given up on making NR work. I have never resigned
my citizenship, no matter what the provocation and I have never stopped
praying to the gods.

Cassius:
Hopefully even those Pagans who *have* left Nova Roma have retained their
devotion to the Gods. The issues are not necessarily linked.

Q. Fabius:
IV. Ability. Any citizen that would need me to represent them in the court
once we get our civil law system in place, consider this, I'm an excellent
debater, I placed in the "masters" category all three seasons while in HS,
and I speak and write very well. And if both our Consuls were disabled, the
Gods forbid, I could step into their shoes with no hesitation and no fear.
Being that I'm in my late 30s, my health and well being is excellent.

Cassius:
The phrase "Two Pilums from the Consulship" suddenly comes to mind... ;)

Seriously though, my most fervent wish as a Citizen is that the Legal system
in Nova Roma be as simple and direct as possible. We have little enough
people and time to devote to the things we're already trying to do, never
mind a full Court System of some type. If Nova Roma has proven anything it's
that true communication is difficult over the Internet... the prospect for
lawsuits being levied every time someone gets upset over something, and
lawyers being dragged in to debate and argue is a pretty sobering thought to
me at least.

Q. Fabius:
V. Accessibility. I'm one of the most accessible persons here at Nova
Roma.
My job keeps me on line most of the day, and I can usually answer questions
about Ancient Roman history and Nova Roman history. If I cannot, I'll know
where to get the answer.

Cassius:
This is an excellent point which is also shared by the retired Marcus
Minucius Audens, and has happily been demonstrated as well by our new Consul
Lucius Cornelius Sulla. A new trend of communication between Citizens and
magistrates can only be welcomed! In truth, our magistrates have *always*
been contactable, but it's pleasing to see this point being brought up on a
regular basis. People forget to communicate unless they are reminded that
they can do so easily.

Q. Fabius:
VI. Wealth. If Nova Roma has financial problems, I am sufficiently well off
allowing me to dip into my personal funds to cover emergencies on a
temporary
basis.

Cassius:
Nova Roma is fortunate that such sentiments have been voiced by several
magistrates and Citizens, myself included. However, as far as I am aware the
Nova Roma treasury is doing well at present so hopefully such services will
not be required.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: 'Nother 'Netiquette reminder
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:43:56 EDT

In a message dated 10/5/99 8:17:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< Another consideration is that those of us who use a small
laser board do not get the quality of a full-fledged computer and as a
result some misspellings occur, which require the repeated review of the
message and even then the message usually is not perfect. The important
aspect of this seems to be communication within NR, and not the
spell-checking of words. I fear that were all of Nova Roma to held to
that rule many of us would >>
Salvete.

M. Audens makes a very good point that many of you sophisticated machine
users do forgot. Not everyone has the top of the line computers. Also
misspellings doesn't mean that the poster is illiterate. For many of us,
English is a second or third language. When I was learning English, one of
the hardest things to remember were the homonyms. I'm sure that I spelt
"Poles" for "Polls" many times.
Summation? Go easy on your fellow citizens, and save your criticisms for
more important events.
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject:	Re: Dues comments (was concerning the Praetor's Race)
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:11:32 EDT

In a message dated 10/5/99 8:40:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:

<< This was primarily because it did not adequately address some critical
working details such as the problem of foreign banking. The matter was put
aside most especially since there were several other people who *did* want
taxation at the time, although I wasn't then included among them. <<
Salve Marcus Cassius Julianus
Actually, if you remember, Antonius Gryllus and myself suggested American
Express checks for the non US provinces in answer to the sitting Senates'
question. However it came to pass during the debate that most of the Cassian
Senate (this is not a slur on you, Marcus Cassius, just refers to the Senate
appointed during your active consulship) felt that to institute a dues
structure would cause near disaster here in Nova Roma. We would lose the
bulk of our citizens! This came about even though we argued that by making
Nova Roma worth something in monetary value, citizen participation would
increase since the citizens now had something at stake in the micronation. I
still believe that to be true, and when Antonius Gryllus returns from
presenting his paper, we will reword and resubmit the law.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject:	Re: SALVETE!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:35:14 -0700

Salve Dex...

All you -------- to do is to e-mail <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=137056234112193209090218066036129208" >Ce--------s@--------</a> will get
you a voter code right away.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul



<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> Can't remember my voter code. Where can I get this?
>
> --Dexippus
>
>

Subject:	AUDENS PARA PRAETOR!
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:30:15 PDT

MARCUS MINUCIUS AUDENS PARA PRAETOR!

Cidadaos de Nova Roma!

Marcus Minucius Audens, Chefe do Sodalistas Militarum, Legatus Civicus de
Connecticut do Norte-Orietal dos Estados Unidos da America, antigo Quaestor
e Assistente Especial do Consul Decius Iunius Palladius de Orcamento e
Pesquisa de Situacao, e Editor de 'The Eagle', este meio anuncio minha
intencao de ser um candidato na eleicao de Praetor.

Do periodo de oficio ser curto, me oferecera um desafio maior para com a sua
realizacao durante minha gestao. Saudo meus amigos candidatos e os desejo
bem, e eu estou honrado em competir com eles por este oficio. Magistrado que
ja esteve em oficio em Nova Roma deveria alcancar algo de benefico durante
sua posse. Da 'Guerra Social' eu completei o terceiro orcamento, e revisei
os relatorios trimestrais financeiros. Eu era o conselheiro do Consul
Cincinnatus em muitos assuntos, e estou agora adjudando o Consul Palladius
com o quarto orcamento.

Legatus Civicus de Connecticut eu ajudei cidadaos a se encontrarem. Como
Chefe do Sodalis Militum eu estou compilando uma lista de referencias do
Exercito Romano junto de mais de 100 illustracoes que recriaa cartografia
Romana. Colecoes de referencia estao agora disponiveis a todos em Nova Roma,
e esta crescendo continuamente.

Praetor, eu pretendo cumprir quatro metas:

Primeiro, eu mantereitodos os cidadaos bem informados de tudo o que o
governo esta fazendo, e de o que esta acontecendo no Collegium Pontificorum.

Eu completarei o orcamento com ajuda dos Quaestors e eu apresentarei ista
para o Senado.

Terceiro lugar, eu trabalharei em co-operacao com os magistrados eleitos e o
Senado, melhorarei as comunicacoes dentro de Nova Roma.

E perguntara: 'Como voce fara tudo isso?'

Responderei: eu nao estou seguro, mas eu faco qualquer tarefa usando o
melhor de minhas habilidades. Faco esta promessa a voce! Muito do que eu
realizo se fara pela suas sugestoes, assim eu ouvirei cuidadosamente a todos
e reconhecerei cada um.

Ajudarei todo cidadao de Nove Roma a obter uma resposta do governoem
qualquer pergunta. Isto nem sempre foi assim no passado. As novas leis de
Nova Roma a fundo, embora nao seje um advogado treinado.

Na Marinhados eua durante 20 anos, de Principiante a Chefe Oficial. Eu servi
durante 18 anos na Tabua de Atracoes, como Presidente, na cidade onde vivo,
e ainda defendo esta posicao. Em sirvo como um oficial em quatro unidades de
re-representacao historicas, e completei 35 anos de servico nos Escoteiros
de America na qual eu defendi posicoes de lideranca durante 30 anos. Eu
estou agora como Comissario de Campo d Conselho de Exploradores e sirvo 6
distritos naquela capacidade. Estas realizacoes nao para se louvar, mas para
o assegurar que posse servir o Estado e os cidadaos de Nova Roma como
Praetor.

Que os informarque nao sou do Rreligio Romana:eu sou um Cristao. Mesmo
assim, honro os deuses de Roma perque eles inspiraram uma raca de homens que
resultaram na literatura mundial, leis, medicamentos e paz no Imperio.

Respeito,

Marcus Minucius Audens.

(With thanks to Senhor Mairon Augusto dos Santos Pizone).

Subject:	Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:34:47 -0400 (EDT)

As previously indicated. I have written a message to the senior Consul
requestng to know the exact status of the Dues / Tax Proposal that was
submitted. I am pleased to find out more of what the Senate thought was
wrong with the Proposal, and now it can be revised to meet the needs of
the citizens in NR.. I thank Cassius for his input. When the Senior
Consul returns from his vacation I am sure that he will provide me with
the information regarding this proposal which has been too long out of
the public mind.

This brings home the importance of at least one part of my candidacy in
that while both Q. Fabius and I are concerned about this unfinished
business;, it is my particular desire to keep the citizans appraised of
the who, what where, when, why and how, of the question as it is being
dealt with..

It may well be that by alerting the citizenship of the intention to
refurbish the item in question that new ideas can be generated by
citizens who have a different view of the situations as well as the
problems. It was a new member" who pointed out the details of the use
of Travelers Checks, in an easily understood manner and although I had
suggested that possibility early on as well as Graecus and Q. Fabius as
I have paid several overseas bills with such, her points of explanation
were valuable. It was several people who were students who reminded the
framers of that original proposal that certain considerations had t o be
adopted for students and people in a minimum wage bracket, or
intemporary difficulty which the framers of the proposal finally did

During the dictatorship there was quite a bit of discussion about the
newly proposed laws,by citizens who were not only interested but also
familiar with what was going on. My feeling is that had there been a
little more explanation that many more citizens would have entered the
forum on these ideas. Remember that much of what was suggested by
citizens to te Dictator was incorporated into the proposals, and at
least in one occasion a feature of the new constitution questioned by
citizens has given some trouble in organization simply becaue again of
insufficient communication..

When I served as a Quaestor I felt that it was my responsibility to
provide information updates on items that I was aware of and did so
peridically, and also messaged the more senior magistrtes requesting
that they consider doing the same.. Communication has always been a
particular interest of mine here is Nova Roma as well as previous
endeavors, and is to my mind one of primary importane to the citizens,
the organizations within NR and to NR as whole. Just day or so ago,
one of our long-time citizens asked if the Sodalitas which the member is
in charge of was still an official member of Nova Roma. I remember
during the Dictatorship that the Sodalitas in question was approved, and
I do not believe that item was disapproved at any later time. However,
if the person that has created the Sodlitas is not sure of it's standing
then that condition surely must say something about the need for
communication in a period of great upheaval. I do not criticize any
magistrate with these remarks, i simply refer to a citiizen who is not
sure of thier position, and that should be and can be dealt with easily
and effectively with communication..

I am confident that as more information on the actions of the government
and those working within it, is made available to the Citizens of NR.
that we will see a reawakened interest in the political activities of
this great micronation.

Marcus Mnucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Praetor's Race... (was: Salvete!)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:43:34 -0700

> Q. Fabius:
> >I wish to work with the other Praetor Marcus Mucius Scaevola in defining a
> civil law structure for NR. (our own table of XII rules). Marcus Mucius has
> already made an excellent start on the rather voluminous subject but it to
> must be seen to its completion.
>
> Cassius:
> Question, isn't there a "Law Committee" to at least assist with this?
> Hopefully more than the two Praetors will be involved with creating a system
> of laws.

Sulla: No, there isnt....the original law committee..was headed by Flavia
Claudia....when she was overworked...it was handed to Av. Tullius
Calladius....and well he has resigned his citizenship....after only 2 meetings of
the Law Committee in which the only persons present were Callidius, myself and Q.
Fabius. So, I guess we can say that was a casulty of the old government.
However, Callidus did resign prior to the "Social Wars."

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: AUDENS PARA PRAETOR!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:04:28 -0400 (EDT)

To; Nicclaus Moravious;

I thank you most profoundly for your translation of my application for
Praetor into a language not my own. It was a long and difficult job, I
know, and I appreciate it extremely. I have a great value and affection
for the Portuguese and as I have written often before, as they are an
honest hardworkng people and in the Islands of Madiera and the Azores
have shown an amazing resiliency as well as many advanced ideas in
agriculture and in many other areas as well. However they have not
neglected their rich history and heritage, so that jut as in many larger
and richer countries, the history is there to see simply by attending
one of the many museums available. They are fun to be around, and they
are polite to a fault, even in situations where politeness would not be
recognized as a suitable solution here in the U.S. It has been a long
time since I visited Lisboa, but I still remember the filled streets
with handsome men and very lovely ladies, busy shops and restaurants to
die for!!!

I would ask that all in Nova Roma who have access to Nova Romans who
have the Portuguese language to forward that excellent translaton to
them. It is a first in NR in regard to the work to bring our two
cultures closer together. A work which is a labor of love for me for as
long as I have been involved in the NR Political scene. I think it
extremely important, and would invite the ideas of all concerning such.
It is also an extremely important facet of Communication!!!.

In closing, I once again thank you for your outstanding effort, and how
much I appreciate your support.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Survey
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:14:53 -0700

Salvete Omnes....the survey has now been released....I will be
distributing it today. Please let me know if you dont have a copy of it
by tomorrow 10/06/99. Thank you for your participation and support.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: AUDENS PARA PRAETOR!
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:19:40 -0500

On 5 Oct 99, at 15:04, James Mathews wrote:

> I thank you most profoundly for your translation of my application for
> Praetor into a language not my own.

Is THAT what that was? TOO COOL.

Crys (who doesn't speak Portuguese OR Latin worth a damn)

Subject:	Chocolate Cake
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:14:54 PDT

Salvete!

The noble Cassius Iulianus is right when he says that Roman chocolate cake
represents syncretism at its best. A non-citizen friend of mine has been
serving her guests chocolate dormice at her annual Roman dinner parties for
years now (honestly!).

After all, as some of us have to keep reminding ourselves when developing
our devotio religionis, pagan reconstructionism is not the same as
historical re-enactment.

For example, when I first began to practice the religio in a formalised,
(neo)Roman way, I made some little spelt cakes to an ancient recipe and
offered them to the household gods. I thought they were rather dull and
uninteresting, but if that was what you were supposed to do, then that was
the 'right' way to do it...

Immediately after the ritual, I received a strong mental impression that the
gods weren't too impressed with the spelt cakes, either. They seemed to be
saying: 'Well, Vado, it was very kind of you to go to all that trouble, but
some of that Turkish Delight you've got hidden away in your sideboard would
be nice, y'know.' I was not aware that I had any Turkish Delight, but looked
anyway and found a box right at the back of the sideboard, forgotten since
the previous Saturnalia. I offered it. It was well received.

As Ovid says in several places in the 'Fasti', the gods have a sweet tooth.
I have subsequently discovered that Venus is particularly fond of Turkish
Delight, and Vesta is pleased with honey and raisin muffins.

Now please, Cives, don't think I am being frivolous: it is simply a logical
matter of offering the gods what you would like best yourself, or what you
would offer to your dearest friends - and being open to what the gods want,
rather than what you think they ought to want.

Asd it happens, the day before this thread started, some of us in Britannia
were discussing the idea of sacrificing a life-size chocolate hare at the
Floralia next year. Meanwhile, I wonder if Cato's sacred cheesecake recipe
(see Aprica's translation on the Website) would work with the addition of an
ounce or two of chocolate?
What d'you reckon, Venator? Anybody?

Valete bene,

Vado.

Subject:	Law Committee
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:16:05 -0400 (EDT)

To; C.Sulla;

Salve, Honored Consul;

Sir::in regard to your explanation regarding the Law Committee,I most
respectfully request to know the following information;

--Are you and Q. fabius still memebrs of the committee?

--Is the committee still an active committee?;

--Is there any possibility o re-establishing the committee?

--If there is such a possibility of restoring the Law Committee, then I
most respectfully request of you and your lengthy service in NR what is
your feeling for the steps, procedures, and needs to restore such?

I humbly thank you for your kind attention to this unworthy request.

Vale, Honored Consul
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate for Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:31:13 -0700

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> To; C.Sulla;
>
> Salve, Honored Consul;
>
> Sir::in regard to your explanation regarding the Law Committee,I most
> respectfully request to know the following information;
>
> --Are you and Q. fabius still memebrs of the committee?
>

As far as I can tell....Q. Fabius and I were the only members....We meet and
discussed the XII tables..and discussed where to begin in terms of building
the foundation of Nova Roma law.....I am sure that once I have some time...I
would be more than happy to resurrect such a committee, since really enjoy
the law.

>
> --Is the committee still an active committee?;
>

As of this moment...and since March 99, no it is not an active
committee....it has not meet since the resignation of Av. Tullius Callidus.

>
> --Is there any possibility o re-establishing the committee?

Yes I definately see that as a possibility. I think it is something that is
needed and will help Nova Roma by allowing members who shine in this area to
give their much needed expert opinion to help Nova Roma.

>
>
> --If there is such a possibility of restoring the Law Committee, then I
> most respectfully request of you and your lengthy service in NR what is
> your feeling for the steps, procedures, and needs to restore such?
>

Thank you for your request. I would definately like to try to reimplement
the Law Committee.

>
> I humbly thank you for your kind attention to this unworthy request.
>

Its not an unworthy request...it is something that I would like to do.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:51:57 -0400 (EDT)

To; Sulla;

Honored Consul C. Sulla;

Sir: I much appreciate your quick answer. The re=establishment of
the Law Committee would seem to be the thing to do in the following
lights:

--The continuing efforts to place our law structures into a better
operating situation;

--The consideration of new laws and proposals for the benefit of NR;

--and the utilization to the fullest degree that we are able, the minds
of those NR citizens who are keen on Roman Law.

May I most respectfully suggest that you review all those people who
made such outstanding comments to the Dictator's constitution changes
and approach them about serving in such an action. I suspect that if we
are successful in re-organizing the Law Committee it will be the focus
of a lot of publc ideas, and may well even become an accepted path to a
Magistacy. Of course the current Praetor would have to be consulted as
well, and his agreement obtained before going ahead with any aspect of
the effort.

Further it may be that a looser organization is neededwith each person
being responsible for a specific item and able to converse with all oter
members. I think that will distribute te burden better, and would be
more equitable. However, these are just a few ideas, and I would ask
the current Praetor to comment on them as well should he desire to do
so.

Vale, Honored Consul;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Chocolate Cake
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:58:51 EDT

In a message dated 10/5/99 3:15:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:

<< As Ovid says in several places in the 'Fasti', the gods have a sweet
tooth.
I have subsequently discovered that Venus is particularly fond of Turkish
Delight, and Vesta is pleased with honey and raisin muffins. >>

I'm not familiar with that work by Ovid....is it available in print?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:04:46 -0700

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> To; Sulla;
>
> Honored Consul C. Sulla;
>
> Sir: I much appreciate your quick answer. The re=establishment of
> the Law Committee would seem to be the thing to do in the following
> lights:
>
> --The continuing efforts to place our law structures into a better
> operating situation;
>

I agree...

>
> --The consideration of new laws and proposals for the benefit of NR;
>

well that is already done in the Album Saturnium (spelling). However, I
dont think the proposals are there...but when we do get proposals...the
Consuls review them...and once reviewed they (for the most part) put up on
the e-mail list and message board as part of the summoning of the Comitia
Centuriata.

> --and the utilization to the fullest degree that we are able, the minds
> of those NR citizens who are keen on Roman Law.
>

That I definately agree with.

>
> May I most respectfully suggest that you review all those people who
> made such outstanding comments to the Dictator's constitution changes
> and approach them about serving in such an action. I suspect that if we
> are successful in re-organizing the Law Committee it will be the focus
> of a lot of publc ideas, and may well even become an accepted path to a
> Magistacy. Of course the current Praetor would have to be consulted as
> well, and his agreement obtained before going ahead with any aspect of
> the effort.
>

Yes. If I recall correctly there were 5 of us directly consulted.
Germancius, could you please forward me a list of the people you
consulted...From what I can recall, Cassius, Palladius, and
myself...unfortunately its been a while and I dont remember the rest. Also,
I know that Scaveola has been working on an Edicta. It was very good...a
very good start in field of jurisprudence in Nova Roma. I hope that soon he
will be able to publish it.

>
> Further it may be that a looser organization is neededwith each person
> being responsible for a specific item and able to converse with all oter
> members. I think that will distribute te burden better, and would be
> more equitable. However, these are just a few ideas, and I would ask
> the current Praetor to comment on them as well should he desire to do
> so.

Well here is kinda what I think....with the early law committee meetings I
went to Cassius to ask exactly what I should research...he stated, after
some conversation that Mid-Republic law is a good place to start. Q. Fabius
has all the leges and brief synopsis of them, I believe. I think that if we
are going to start...we should focus on bringing some of the leges that were
used in Ancient Rome and try to fashion them in a way that would make them
workable in Nova Roma.....Hopefully that doesnt sound so convoluted...but, I
think it would be an excellent start.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:05:56 -0400 (EDT)

To; C.Sulla;

Honored Consul, C. Sulla

Sir: I respectfully submit the name of Merrullus and Vado who have
demonstrated a close understanding of the Roman Law and as members of NR
having a incisive interllect and a sensitive feel for the way things
should be done. I have had the honor to speak of them in glowng terms
to the Senior Consul in my capacity as his clerk-advisor and I now bring
their names to your attention. Senator Ericus was also involved and
made some shewd comments. Together with Germanicus, Palladius and
yourself, I belief that is the bulk of the group, Anyone else who
contributed to the various aspects of the new constitution is also
invited to be paced in this category should you wish it.

In regard to the old leges, the idea is sound, but I am not excited
about bringing in new laws that we don't necessarily need until all the
citizens understand the ones we have and how the institutions operate.
It may well be that you do in detail, but I would expect that wih your
background. We need to Communicate well enough so that our newest
member will o hesitate to ask about any facet of the Law that is in
place, knowing that she will get a reasonably straight-forward and
understandable answer, As no chain is stronger than it's weakest link,
no institution is stronger than it's least aware member.

Vale, Honored Consul;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Basis of Gov't. (was: Attention Lictors...)
From:	SDmtwi@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:19:46 EDT

Salvete all.

My apologies for a post that is quite probably off-topic.

Gaius Iunius wrote:
> The basis of any government is force, asserted by some at the
> command of others, as permitted by law.

I find that I must disagree with that statement. The basis of a dictatorial,
oppressive government is force. The basis of a republican government that
serves a free society is the support of that society's citizens. It is the
social contract that upholds the rule of law in such a state, and not the
ability of the government's officials to beat people.

Valete,
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:58:36 -0700 (PDT)

I thought the project of a Nova Roman code was well in
hand. Certainly I made extensive comments on such a
proposal circulated to me by Scaevola. What's going on
with that, anyway?

L. Licinius Varro Murena

--- Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
wrote:
>
>
> James Mathews wrote:
>
> > From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
> >
> > To; C.Sulla;
> >
> > Salve, Honored Consul;
> >
> > Sir::in regard to your explanation regarding the
> Law Committee,I most
> > respectfully request to know the following
> information;
> >
> > --Are you and Q. fabius still memebrs of the
> committee?
> >
>
> As far as I can tell....Q. Fabius and I were the
> only members....We meet and
> discussed the XII tables..and discussed where to
> begin in terms of building
> the foundation of Nova Roma law.....I am sure that
> once I have some time...I
> would be more than happy to resurrect such a
> committee, since really enjoy
> the law.
>
> >
> > --Is the committee still an active committee?;
> >
>
> As of this moment...and since March 99, no it is not
> an active
> committee....it has not meet since the resignation
> of Av. Tullius Callidus.
>
> >
> > --Is there any possibility o re-establishing the
> committee?
>
> Yes I definately see that as a possibility. I think
> it is something that is
> needed and will help Nova Roma by allowing members
> who shine in this area to
> give their much needed expert opinion to help Nova
> Roma.
>
> >
> >
> > --If there is such a possibility of restoring the
> Law Committee, then I
> > most respectfully request of you and your lengthy
> service in NR what is
> > your feeling for the steps, procedures, and needs
> to restore such?
> >
>
> Thank you for your request. I would definately like
> to try to reimplement
> the Law Committee.
>
> >
> > I humbly thank you for your kind attention to this
> unworthy request.
> >
>
> Its not an unworthy request...it is something that I
> would like to do.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Consul
>
>
<HR>

>

Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:08:17 -0700 (PDT)

I still think there are better ways to raise money
than to impose taxes or dues at this early stage in
NR's existence. For example, why not set up a separate
Bibliothecum page on the website, with recommended
books and mini-reviews by members, and then link them
to Amazon.com. The way its currently structured the
book list is buried in the Macellum page, and one
hardly knows it exists.

Speaking of the Macellum, why don't the magistrates
invite internet-based art & artifact firms to link to
the NR site, on an Amazon.com-style basis, much like
JBL statues do. I note there are only a few Nova
Romans in the Ordo Equester, and they supply only a
limited stock of goods. Why not, unless and until NR
citizens step forward, allow other firms to link if we
get a small cut? Places like the Metropolitan Museum
of Art, Boston Museum of Fine Arts, Past Times, etc.
sell Roman-era items, plus there are any number of
firms that sell recreations of arms and armor. In
other words, make NR your one-stop center for
EVERYTHING about Ancient Rome--jewelry, statuary,
coins, arms & armor, t-shirts, posters, mugs, books,
etc.

L. Licinius Varro Murena





--- James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
> As previously indicated. I have written a message to
> the senior Consul
> requestng to know the exact status of the Dues / Tax
> Proposal that was
> submitted. I am pleased to find out more of what
> the Senate thought was
> wrong with the Proposal, and now it can be revised
> to meet the needs of
> the citizens in NR.. I thank Cassius for his input.
> When the Senior
> Consul returns from his vacation I am sure that he
> will provide me with
> the information regarding this proposal which has
> been too long out of
> the public mind.
>

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:03:45 -0700

Thank you for your recommendation....When I start preparing the law
committee I will definatley consult them and anyone else who is interested
in reimplementing the Law Committee.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

James Mathews wrote:

> Sir: I respectfully submit the name of Merrullus and Vado who have
> demonstrated a close understanding of the Roman Law and as members of NR
> having a incisive interllect and a sensitive feel for the way things
> should be done. I have had the honor to speak of them in glowng terms
> to the Senior Consul in my capacity as his clerk-advisor and I now bring
> their names to your attention. Senator Ericus was also involved and
> made some shewd comments. Together with Germanicus, Palladius and
> yourself, I belief that is the bulk of the group, Anyone else who
> contributed to the various aspects of the new constitution is also
> invited to be paced in this category should you wish it.
>
> In regard to the old leges, the idea is sound, but I am not excited
> about bringing in new laws that we don't necessarily need until all the
> citizens understand the ones we have and how the institutions operate.
> It may well be that you do in detail, but I would expect that wih your
> background. We need to Communicate well enough so that our newest
> member will o hesitate to ask about any facet of the Law that is in
> place, knowing that she will get a reasonably straight-forward and
> understandable answer, As no chain is stronger than it's weakest link,
> no institution is stronger than it's least aware member.

Sulla: I agree about making communication a priority, hence the creation of
my survey...which is still being distributed...I have already gotten some
responses back...and I am looking forward to measuring them and trying to
adopt many of the recommendations that will, in time, make Nova Roma a
better organization.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:05:37 -0700

JSA wrote:

> From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
>
> I thought the project of a Nova Roman code was well in
> hand. Certainly I made extensive comments on such a
> proposal circulated to me by Scaevola. What's going on
> with that, anyway?

Well I am not aware of such a code other than the Edicta that Praetor
Scaveola has been working on....I have only seen one draft as of this
date...Could you please inform me on exactly what you are referring. I
would greatly appreciate that.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Voter codes (was Re: SALVETE!)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:17:47 -0400

Salve,

> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> Couldn't there be something on the website where we could recover
> our voter codes. Like make up our own password or something.
> Then have the voter code emailed to us? I still have mine (I think)
> but I don't know when I will lose it and printing it out and saving it is
> almost a laughable idea around here (things get sacrificed to the
> VCR god a lot these days <G>).

Essentially, your voter code itself is your password to get into the cista.
So, you want a password so you can recover your password? Oh, THAT makes
sense.

Now, something that might very well make sense is for people to be able to
select their own voter codes. Obviously, we can't do that for the current
election, but it could be done by November, I think. We could make it part
of the new citizenship application, too. There's nothing that says that the
voter codes have to be assigned; since some people seem to have trouble
hanging on to the one they were assigned, do folks think choosing their own
voter codes would be helpful? Let's have an informal poll...

Or perhaps an informal pole would be better. Whatever; just let me know what
you think.

Vale,

Germanicus

Subject:	Re: Netiquette
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:27:29 -0400

Salve,

I would argue that the web page is obligated to display the edict as issued.
I'm sure nobody would feel comfortable with the web master going around
making corrections to what are essentially legal documents, no matter how
much they might want to (I would point out that the US Constitution has an
amendment that contains a grammatical error, and is always published with
the error intact.) It's not the first typo that's on the site, and won't be
the last.

Vale,

Germanicus

----- Original Message -----
From: Don an--------ys Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Netiquette


> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete,
>
> Would it be too much to request that the reference to "Poles" be
> removed from the voter page. It's cute and everything, but I thought
> this was serious and deserving of a quick run-through with the spell-
> checker at least by the webmasters.
>
> Crystallina Materna (mother of an 8th Pole who isn't running for
> anything nor open for voters)
>
> YES that was supposed to be a funny --- mostly
>
> >

Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:24:29 -0400

Salve!

> From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
>
> I still think there are better ways to raise money
> than to impose taxes or dues at this early stage in
> NR's existence. For example, why not set up a separate
> Bibliothecum page on the website, with recommended
> books and mini-reviews by members, and then link them
> to Amazon.com. The way its currently structured the
> book list is buried in the Macellum page, and one
> hardly knows it exists.

An excellent suggestion, but unfortunately, one that has been in place since
the very foundations of our Republic. Check out
<a href="http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html</a> to see what I mean. It does
need expanding, updating, and publicity, but it is there...

Vale,

Germanicus (who is probably still listed as the Amazon.com rep...)

Subject:	Re: (Praetor's Race) - Dues comments
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:34:01 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 10/5/99 1:12:01 PM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

Q. Fabius:
>Actually, if you remember, Antonius Gryllus and myself suggested American
Express checks for the non US provinces in answer to the sitting Senates'
question.

Cassius:
I'm afraid that I do not remember this. When this idea was proposed by one of
the Citizen's this last month, I in fact posted that this was an idea that
would help solve some of the problems that we had been facing with the older
proposed plan. I was quite pleased to see this idea come up as a result of
public discussion! Anyone interested can check the "taxation" thread in the
list archives to verify my response. However, this might indeed be something
that got lost among other issues.

Even so it certainly wasn't the only point where the older proposed tax plan
fell short... and we still have some issues to solve in that respect, such
as the fact that overseas Citizens would end up paying more due to
unfavorable money exchange rates.

Q. Fabius:
However it came to pass during the debate that most of the Cassian
Senate (this is not a slur on you, Marcus Cassius, just refers to the Senate
appointed during your active consulship) felt that to institute a dues
structure would cause near disaster here in Nova Roma. We would lose the
bulk of our citizens! This came about even though we argued that by making
Nova Roma worth something in monetary value, citizen participation would
increase since the citizens now had something at stake in the micronation.
I
still believe that to be true, and when Antonius Gryllus returns from
presenting his paper, we will reword and resubmit the law.

Cassius:
The original hope for Nova Roma was to make it as easy and simple to join and
belong to as possible. Taxation was something that could only limit growth.
Citizens would have to wait for funds to transfer and clear before their
Citizenship would become complete, and worse yet they might put off applying
for Citizenship due to financial problems, etc. Those are still valid enough
issues. During the "Cassian" Senate, Nova Roma never gained less than 20 new
Citizens in a month, and there was every reason to encourage that kind of
growth to help fill governmental positions, Sodaliciums, the Religio Romana,
etc.

Why on Earth have I changed my position on the issue of taxation then? Simply
because of the nature of Politics in Nova Roma. While Nova Roma has continued
to make steady gains and improvements, we have also floated from public
crisis to public crisis. It has been obvious that our Citizens already feel
that they have a stake in Nova Roma, hence the high volume of political
activity. However, with political participation comes responsibility. If we
all have an equal right to agitate in the Forum and cause the political winds
of Nova Roma to blow in the direction we choose, we all ought to contribute
materially to the solid foundation of Nova Roma as well. It is my hope that
such responsibility will provide us with more balance.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: ATTN: EDICTA FOR COMITIA CENTURIATA
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:36:42 -0400

Salvete cives

When voting please be sure to enter your voter code EXACTLY as it appeared
in the e-mail from the censores. We cannot count votes that contain extra
characters, even spaces. Also, your roman name, tribal assignment et cetera
DO NOT substitute for your voter code.

If you lost your voter code, or have not received it, please alert
Germanicus right away by e-mail to

<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
rogator



:From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
:
:Salvete!
:
:I am pleased to announce that the cista is now open and available for
:citizens to cast their votes. If anyone doesn't have their voter code,
:please email me privately (<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=219056234112193209090218066036129208" >ce--------s@--------</a>) a-------- ca----------------ut your
:code. (Since my fellow censor is currently enjoying his honeymoon-- we
:hope-- I'll be sending out the codes.) Anyone whose application was made
:within the last two weeks or so, your voter codes will be sent out by
:tomorrow.
:

Subject:	Re: Re: ATTN: EDICTA FOR COMITIA CENTURIATA
From:	"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:54:14 -0400

Is our voter code the same as the last sortition?

mpj




At 08:36 PM 05/10/1999 -0400, you wrote:
From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>

Salvete cives

When voting please be sure to enter your voter code EXACTLY as it appeared
in the e-mail from the censores. We cannot count votes that contain extra
characters, even spaces. Also, your roman name, tribal assignment et cetera
DO NOT substitute for your voter code.

If you lost your voter code, or have not received it, please alert
Germanicus right away by e-mail to

<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus
rogator


]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[

Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:09:25 EDT

In a message dated 10/5/99 6:10:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<<
Speaking of the Macellum, why don't the magistrates
invite internet-based art & artifact firms to link to
the NR site, on an Amazon.com-style basis, much like
JBL statues do. I note there are only a few Nova
Romans in the Ordo Equester, and they supply only a
limited stock of goods. Why not, unless and until NR
citizens step forward, allow other firms to link if we
get a small cut? Places like the Metropolitan Museum
of Art, Boston Museum of Fine Arts, Past Times, etc.
sell Roman-era items, plus there are any number of
firms that sell recreations of arms and armor. In
other words, make NR your one-stop center for
EVERYTHING about Ancient Rome--jewelry, statuary,
coins, arms & armor, t-shirts, posters, mugs, books,
etc.

Cassius:
Excellent ideas! They have already been explored to a good extent however.
The original plan for funding ALL of Nova Roma was through a combination of
goods offered through the Macellum. We hoped that between Amazon.com book
sales, members of the Ordo Equester, and links to "other" companies in return
for a small percentage, funding would be comparatively easy.

What we found was that sales through the Amazon.com link remained poor to
weakly moderate no matter how they were promoted, only three Citizens were
interesed in the Ordo Equester, and out of nearly a dozen outside companies
contacted, only JBL statues was interested in being promoted within Nova
Roma in exchange for kicking back a portion of sales. (And THEY, quite
frankly, have never surrendered a dime to NR from sales to Citizens. The only
reason why we've bothered to keep a link to them is that they're the only
company with Lar statues in the entire world.)

The big problem with outside companies was that providing "kickbacks" from
Citizen sales meant more accounting work for them. They all figured that the
extra time in tallying up NR sales and figuring up percentages to refund
would cost them more than it was worth. Far easier to simply put up their own
webpage and link it well to the Internet search engines... no doubt we'd come
to them anyway and they wouldn't have to surrender money to a cause not their
own. :P

Hopefully all this will change somewhat in the future. The Nova Roma
bookstore would no doubt do better if it could be expanded and updated. I
don't believe that any of our webmasters or webmistresses has had the time to
update the thing for many months now. Also, there is always hope that
Citizens will see the potential for both fun and profits in offering their
own Roman items and services... there IS a ready-made market here after all!
I doubt we'll get many outside companies joining us, but perhaps as the
treasury grows Nova Roma will be able to do some wholesale buying and
reselling. We COULD make a very good profit from JBL statues for instance, by
buying Lar and other deity statues in quantity, "warehousing" them ourselves,
and selling to Citizens directly.

Unfortunately I'm no longer convinced that these things can be a
*replacement* for requiring some sort of Citizen dues. Dues are a much surer
way of keeping steady funding for Nova Roma. But even that isn't the full
issue... there is also the simple fact that ALL successful organizations
require responsibility along with the right to participate. An organization
that expects its officers to maintain all aspects of it's foundation, while
members are free from all cares except the right to use provided facilities,
is doomed to failure.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:17:04 -0500 (CDT)

I think we need taxes/dues and other forms of income as well-- like
the affiliated businesses we have. Nothing much can materialize itself
in NR or anywhere else without adequate funding.

One thing I'd love to see would be the co-sponsoring of a major event
with not only Nova Romans but with certain Asatru, Egyptian, and Celtic
Reconstructionist groups. If it could be managed right I think it would
be of great benefit/fun to everyone involved. I think even for our
nonpagan citizens such an event could be really interesting. One day
maybe...

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Voter codes (was Re: SALVETE!)
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:38:14 -0500

On 5 Oct 99, at 19:17, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> Essentially, your voter code itself is your password to get into the
> cista. So, you want a password so you can recover your password? Oh, THAT
> makes sense.

Well, excuuuuuuse me. I was just trying to figure something out.
Seems Onelist, eGroups, listbot, etc have sone EXACTLY what I
am suggesting for password retrieval.

I stand suitably stupefied.

Crys (DUH)

Subject:	Pole vs Poll
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:42:58 -0500

Again the idiot speaks ...

On 5 Oct 99, at 19:17, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

>
> Or perhaps an informal pole would be better. Whatever; just let me know
> what you think.
>
> Vale,
>
> Germanicus

Perhaps it is our lack of Latin. I, personally only have a year of
college and that was as an English major and none of Placidus' 3
degrees are in Latin or History ....

Is Pole some sort of special Latin spelling thing? Like "G" and "C".

I suppose I could get all "over-emotional" and take it as some sort
of ass-backwards crack against Polish people (of which my
daughter is one). But that is probably as stupid as the rest of the
drivel I come up with, huh?

Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Materna

Subject:	Re: Pole vs Poll
From:	"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:39:47 -0400

Salvete,

I couldn't help but grin after reading a passing mention of Ovid and then
the suggestion that an "informal pole" would be a good thing (and no, I
wasn't thinking about nationalities ;^)) ...

mpj
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[

Subject:	Audens for Praetor.
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 18:50:09 -0700

Salvete, Quirites!

I am in favor of Marcus Minucius Audens for Praetor of Nova Roma in
the current
election.

First let me quote what someone else has said of Audens:

> Salve Audens,
>
> I am grateful for your response. I was just trying to put the
election back
> into the proper footing.... which is back with politics and what can
be
> offered to Nova Roma. I know that you, my friend will do a great
job if you
> are given the opportunity to serve as Praetor. You are very
competent and
> are eager to learn in any position given to you by the People of
Nova Roma.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Consul
>

This is not saying Sulla is going to vote for Audens, but it
definitely gives
onegood reason for voting for M. Minucius Audens for Praetor.
Like Sulla, Audens is not of the Religio. Like Sulla, Audens holds
the Religio Romana
in high regard. Audens had no trouble taking the old oath, which put
more emphasis
on the Religio.

I support Audens for Praetor because I have been favorably impressed
by his
competence and energy from the beginning. I also happen to find him
the most
approachable person of the contenders, the most responsive. While he
is technically
retired, he continually takes up new projects, without shorting the
other activities.
He has taken over Nova Roma's Eagle, and improved it. The term of the
Praetors
elected this election will only be two months, yet I think M. Minucius
Audens will
show us some accomplishments even in that short a time.

The other contender for Praetor in this election, Q. Fabius Maximus,
has mentioned, a number of times, that he has never quit NR and that
Audens has.

Marcus Minucius Audens did tender his resignation to Nova Roma during
the
blast that wracked us at the beginning of July. He believed that he
had been
taken in and had been betrayed, then he decided that he had
misevaluated
the situation and humbly applied to for readmission. Audens was taken
back
into Nova Roma and his gens's Patrician status without any problems.
(Oh, yes,
gens Minucia started out nobly Plebeian and was raised to Patrician
status
by the Senate before the shocks that disturbed Nova Roma.)
Audens has shown he is willing to admit when he is mistaken. He is
also patient
and willing to go over an issue again and again for the sake of
straightening
out misunderstandings. His own as well as anther's. He has
misunderstood
some of my posts, more the problem of my poor writing than his
interpretation,
and when the meaning has been explained to him he has not held back in
smoothing
things out.

We have seen Audens' "resume" a number of times, and it is easy to see
all
the items that are listed therein. The main point of that extensive
list of
jobs, careers and activities is that Audens is a very competent,
talented
and energetic man (uh... Person!). He is able to do any job that the
People
of Nova Roma might vote him.
I submit that you vote for Marcus Minucius Audens for Praetor of Nova
Roma.

Whoever you wish to vote for, VOTE!
However you wish to vote on the laws, VOTE!
The polls close on October 17th.

Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
Senator of Nova Roma,
Propraetor of California Provincia,
Augur & Pontifex.

Subject:	Re: Re: ATTN: EDICTA FOR COMITIA CENTURIATA
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:09:21 -0400

Salve,

> From: "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a>
>
> Is our voter code the same as the last sortition?

Yes.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Censor

Subject:	Re: Voter codes (was Re: SALVETE!)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:22:14 -0400

Salve,

And the winner of the "Respond before reading all of the message" award goes
to...

"Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>

> On 5 Oct 99, at 19:17, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
> > Essentially, your voter code itself is your password to get into the
> > cista. So, you want a password so you can recover your password? Oh,
THAT
> > makes sense.
>
> Well, excuuuuuuse me. I was just trying to figure something out.
> Seems Onelist, eGroups, listbot, etc have sone EXACTLY what I
> am suggesting for password retrieval.

Doubtless you, in your haste to get a jab in at me, neglected to read the
remainder of my post which suggested that perhaps individuals should be
allowed to select their own voter code, rather than have one assigned to
them. The theory, you see, being that if you select one yourself it would be
easier to remember than 6 randomly assigned letters and numbers.

You know, like Onelist, eGroups, listbot, etc. do? _Not_ like we do now.
What you wanted was a password to get to the voter code. I still say that's
just silly. What I suggested was to combine the two into one, since
apparently keeping track of 6 characters was a bit too much for some folks.

But I have to ask; if you can't manage that, what do you do with your 8
digit phone number? Your 9-digit Social Security Number? Granted, you might
not use your voter code so often to warrant commiting it to memory, but at
least save the frigging email...

Of course, those other web sites you mentioned also let you ask a question,
like "what's your cat's name" if you manage to forget the password you chose
in the first place. My proposed change just cuts out the middle-man. And
let's not forget, if you _do_ forget, our present system does allow for a
way out. Just ask, and it'll get emailed to you.

> I stand suitably stupefied.
>
> Crys (DUH)

You said it, not me.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus

Subject:	Re: Pole vs Poll
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:27:01 -0400

Salve,

> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> I suppose I could get all "over-emotional" and take it as some sort
> of ass-backwards crack against Polish people (of which my
> daughter is one). But that is probably as stupid as the rest of the
> drivel I come up with, huh?

Or you could actually contribute substantively to the conversation and give
an opinion as to whether you think that assigned 6-digit voter codes should
be replaced by requested passwords. But, true to form, you chose to be snyde
and contrary, and take a shot at me. (I guess now that I'm no longer
dictator, you no longer see the need to kiss up to me. Lucky me!)

I look forward to the next piece of drivel against me you post on your web
site.

Vale,

Germanicus

Subject:	Re: Basis of Gov't. (was: Attention Lictors...)
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:39:02 -0500

Salvete

The nature of Government is force, not social welfare. Now a club
may provide service or community or a variety of other things. I do
not blame or criticize the confusion, for socialists, communists,
and others have sought to blur this for a hundred years.

The difference is a government that limits itself to second use of
force (against criminals and aggressors) is suitable for a free
people. A government which has no constraints in law against
those granted the authority of the government is a dictatorship, or a
despotism.

Then there is the potential to have a benevolent dictatorship, with
no checks on the government power. This usually lasts until
someone with less than sterling character reaches authority. We
were lucky with the recent dictatorship of Germanicus. I hope that
we do not tempt the fates too many more times. Constitutional
change as we grow is a given. Safety would propose that we make
our changes in such a way that new powers can be tried within
careful limits. A dictatorship is short on limits. (Hear that? It is a
compliment to you, Germanicus, and to the Board of Directors that
chose you!)

I suppose that we all wonder what NR will morph into. I apologize
for being pedantic, but to me it is simple manners to use the
correct terms and conventional spelling. I have enough difficulty
from my ignorance of the Latin terms sprinkled through an
otherwise English text. I imagine that others may also.

I understand that e-mail is less formal than paper letters, but due
care before sending a message is still polite. Some have Web TV
with no spell checker, and that is ok. When the key word and
subject of a message are incorrect, or is spelled incorrectly by a
native english speaker it gives the impression that the author is
merely slovenly.

Pax Vobiscum
Peace to you

Gaius Iunius Placidus

Subject:	Re: Pole vs Poll
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:49:46 -0500

On 5 Oct 99, at 22:27, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

>
> I look forward to the next piece of drivel against me you post on your web
> site.
>
> Vale,
>
> Germanicus

eh?

<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net</a> is the Sodalis. There is a link to NR in
there, but nothing about you as you are not a member.

<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/familia" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/familia</a> is my personal page. You don't
look nothin like my Uncle Floyd.

<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net.iuno" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net.iuno</a> is the Temple of Iuno page. You
don't look nothin like Iuno either (Serena might, but you don't).

<a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/vtnews" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/vtnews</a> is the Via Trames news. It has
the Sulla rants on it, when he was bragging about having the power
of life and death over my family in his gens. I don't think you look
like Sulla either, but you guys suddenly got all buddy buddy.

I'm afraid I don't have a <a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/germanicus" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/germanicus</a> ....
that would be like kissing something I ain't interested in kissin.

Sorry -- at least I admitted (and am willing to go through the
archives to find the emails to prove it) I didn't like you. Said you did
a good job as dictator, but STILL didn't like you. However, I did
compliment your wife on directing a question to you instead of
answering it herself. So if that was kissing ass and you say I did it
to you then my past X theory was right and you really are your wife.

Go figger.

Crys Materna

Subject:	personal statements, and uneasy friendships
From:	"Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" darth_vilmur@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:55:42 -0700

not being one to point fingers, but........

shouldn't personal messages be sent privately?
just a thought

Subject:	Re: Chocolate Cake
From:	Alasdair Morgan Gunn amgunn@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:54:25 -0700

Avete Omnes!

Venator scripsit,

Nicolaus Moravius wrote: (A nice post on offering to the Holy Ones.)
> What d'you reckon, Venator? Anybody?
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Vado.
>

I agree totally on offering to the Holy Ones that which we like best. What
is the sacrifice if you don't like spelt cakes, or some such consumables?

I offer to mine own Gods and Goddesses food and drink which I like to cook
and brew for my wife and I.

I've found that Minerva and Apollo like baklava and retsina. While UllR of
Asgard (my primary patron) likes good whole wheat bread with honey, roasted
pork and strong, dark ale.

As the Children of our Holy Ones, I see Them more as beloved elders of my
family, friends and companions. One would always try to set a good table
for those one likes, is this not so?

In Amicus - Venator, coqueror et coquus, flamen privatus pro Ullerus

Subject:	Re: personal statements, and uneasy friendships
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:38:58 -0700

Of course they should be....I hope our list moderator might assist us with
this subject.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

"Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" wrote:

<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">> From: "Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord o--------e Sith" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166091165042237215056001163243012136219139046209" >darth_vilmur@--------</a>
>
> not being one to point fingers, but........
>
> shouldn't personal messages be sent privately?
> just a thought
>
>

Subject:	Re: Basis of Gov't. (was: Attention Lictors...)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:13:01 -0700

Well that isn't exactly true....the nature of government, isn't formed
precisely because of force....it derives its power and ability to influence
by force. For example....if you look at Plato....he feels that there are
just some people born to lead...this is illustrated many times in the
Republic....He felt that society, given the noble lie....can best lead a
society by utilizing a strict education hierarchy. Force, if I recall
correctly wasn't necessary because the government was supposed to assist
every strata of society. Now, if you go through 2,000 years to someone like
Hobbes...you are partially correct. However, how was government supposed to
exist? It just doesn't come into being....it is agreed upon. If you
research Thomas Hobbes, view of the nature of man...we are at war with
everyone....and the only way to end that state is to agree to form a
government which does have coercive (sp) power over all of the individuals
who helped and consent to be ruled by the State. Therefore....while the
government has the power to use force to enforce its laws and other
actions. It is essentially the individual who allows, either directly or
tacitly to be ruled by such an institution. We at Nova Roma, have given our
direct consent by applying for citizenship to respect, obey and enforce
those laws. Otherwise....the duty of government is to enforce the laws.

Now, if you would like to read further. Please read, Plato's Republic
and/or Thomas Hobbes Leviathan.

Boy I actually had to pull the lecture notes out for this response..hehehe
;)

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Don and Crys Meaker wrote:

> From: "Don an--------ys Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete
>
> The nature of Government is force, not social welfare. Now a club
> may provide service or community or a variety of other things. I do
> not blame or criticize the confusion, for socialists, communists,
> and others have sought to blur this for a hundred years.
>
> The difference is a government that limits itself to second use of
> force (against criminals and aggressors) is suitable for a free
> people. A government which has no constraints in law against
> those granted the authority of the government is a dictatorship, or a
> despotism.
>
> Then there is the potential to have a benevolent dictatorship, with
> no checks on the government power. This usually lasts until
> someone with less than sterling character reaches authority. We
> were lucky with the recent dictatorship of Germanicus. I hope that
> we do not tempt the fates too many more times. Constitutional
> change as we grow is a given. Safety would propose that we make
> our changes in such a way that new powers can be tried within
> careful limits. A dictatorship is short on limits. (Hear that? It is a
> compliment to you, Germanicus, and to the Board of Directors that
> chose you!)
>
> I suppose that we all wonder what NR will morph into. I apologize
> for being pedantic, but to me it is simple manners to use the
> correct terms and conventional spelling. I have enough difficulty
> from my ignorance of the Latin terms sprinkled through an
> otherwise English text. I imagine that others may also.
>
> I understand that e-mail is less formal than paper letters, but due
> care before sending a message is still polite. Some have Web TV
> with no spell checker, and that is ok. When the key word and
> subject of a message are incorrect, or is spelled incorrectly by a
> native english speaker it gives the impression that the author is
> merely slovenly.
>
> Pax Vobiscum
> Peace to you
>
> Gaius Iunius Placidus
>
>
>
>

Subject:	Survey
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:17:46 -0700

Salvete Omnes..

I just wanted to let everyone know that the surveys have been completely
distributed. Citizen or not...please fill in the survey to the best of
your ability. Remember Nova Roma is our organization, help your
magistrates make it a better one! Once again, thank you for your
support! If you didnt get a survey...or accidently deleted it...please
contact m-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> or on ICQ or AIM and I will g--------ou
one ASAP.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul