| Subject: |
English grammar |
| From: |
Diana Aventina diana_aventina@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:36:38 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Greetings Nova Romans!
I would like to make a quick comment regarding
correcting other peoples' English when they make a
mistake, even if it is soooooo tempting to correct
them.
Personaly, I definately mispell words a few times a
weak, even though I desparately try to right correct
english :-)
Generally: on an international list like Nova Roma, to
correct someones English only scares the non-native
English speakers away from posting!
Hear in the far land of Belgica, we are all begining
our work days. I hope that all of you are having sweat
dreems :-)
Diana
=====
|
| Subject: |
apology to list managers |
| From: |
Diana Aventina diana_aventina@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:42:53 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Hello again,
I have changed my email address twice in the last week
(I have trouble using hotmail from work and so have
changed to yahoo). My apologies to the list managers
of religio, novaroma, eagleflight and any others that
have received a bunch messages that I have unsubcribed
and subscribed.
bright blessings,
Diana
=====
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:47:35 EDT |
|
In a message dated 10/5/99 12:16:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
<< Are you and Q. fabius still memebrs of the committee? >>
Salve!
As far as I'm concerned, Lucius Cornelius and I are still the Law committee.
We never resigned. We just are inactive. I'm ready to resume the law
discussion at anytime that we reconvene the committee.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:53:41 EDT |
|
In a message dated 10/5/99 2:58:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:
<< Certainly I made extensive comments on such a
proposal circulated to me by Scaevola. >>
Salve Lucius Licinius
So did I. I never received any reply. I assumed that he has been to busy to
reply.
Have you heard differently?
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 01:00:36 -0700 |
|
Salvete Civies
In final comment about the Nova Roma Law Committee. Currently there is no
law committee. The final meeting of the Law Committee took place in March.
The only attendees were Av. Tullius Calldius (head of the committee), Q.
Fabius Maximus and myself. Prior to that, there was only one other
meeting. Which all of us attended.
The Law Committee ceased to exist after the resignation of Av. Tullius
Callidus. With the recent discussion of the Law Committee, I feel it
necessary to make it clear that at this moment in time there is not one.
However, in the near future, I will start drawing another standing
committee. I know that Q. Fabius, who has contributed a great deal of time
and research has much of his research, papers and notes available when the
Law Committee is reestablished.
The Position of Praetor is vital for the law committee. Because
essentially, that is the sole focus and responsibility of this position. So
when you vote....remember the candidate who will be able to best contribute
to the formation of the Laws that will govern Nova Roma.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: Pole vs Poll |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:51:16 EDT |
|
In a message ----------------/5/99 7:43:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
writes:
<< I'm afraid I don't have a <a href="http://famromo.wiccan.net/germanicus" target="_top" >http://famromo.wiccan.net/germanicus</a> ....
that would be like kissing something I ain't interested in kissin.>>
For the Gods' sake! Grow up you two! Dignatis! DIGNATIS!
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
ATTN: Graecus is back |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:31:17 +0100 |
|
Salvete cives
I'm back to NR.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator et magistratus
|
| Subject: |
spellcheckers & 'Nother 'Netiquette reminder |
| From: |
Diana Aventina diana_aventina@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 03:56:36 -0700 (PDT) |
|
>> and not the > spell-checking of words.
On the lighter side of conversation, spellcheckers can
make more grammar errors than they fix spelling
errors.
For example, I recently uploaded pages to one of my
Websites and my faithful spell checker changed "click
to enter" to "lick to enter" I was of course very
surprised when I checked the website the next day...
Spellcheckers also have a strange way of chancing
"Gods" to "cods" as could be found on the copies of
the PF newsletter that 300 poeple received last
March.... <loud sigh>
Diana
=====
|
| Subject: |
ATTN Campaign for elections: Epistola pro Quinto Fabio Maximo |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:28:13 +0100 |
|
Salvete cives
I'm here to present my testimony on the competent work performed by Aedilis
Curulis Quintus Fabius Maximus, candidate for Praetor of Nova Roma.
I'd like to remind everyone that Q. F. Maximus how was appointed Aedilis
Curulis due to his hard work in Nova Roma.
I started my term of office as Aedilis Plebis with a few ideas about the
implementation of the Ludi. Quintus Fabius Maximus promptly offered his help
with lots of valuable sugestions. Those previously abstract ideas were soon
transformed into a feasible plan, but a plan is not enough... Fabius offered
himself to implement it, to get the rules, to get the players, to write the
text. And now we have the Ludi of Nova Roma!!! This was only the
beginning... Like in ancient Roma, the places for the Ludi started as ad hoc
fields specially arranged for each event... Later, the Circus Maximus and
the Colosseum were built. Q. F. Maximus is now improving our Arena.
After being appointed Aedilis Curulis, Q. F. Maximus has not ceased to work.
In fact he is working even more. Besides the Ludi, Q. F. Maximus is now
sponsoring the Social Wars email game.
I also want to remind you of the profound knowledge Q. F. Maximus has on
Ancient History, mainly Roman History... Knowledge which he uses whenever
possible to help building and improving Nova Roma: I'm talking about laws,
I'm talking about military organisation, I'm talking about religion,
literature, daily life...
Besides... Q. F. Maximus has proven to be a good Res-publican, a friend of
the people.
As Citizen, Senator and Magistrate, I ask you to vote Quintus Fabius Maximus
for Praetor of Nova Roma.
Valete omnes
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator, Tribunus Plebis, Aedilis Plebis, Propraetor Lusitaniae
|
| Subject: |
Ullr |
| From: |
Diana Aventina diana_aventina@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:08:02 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Dear Venator,
> While UllR of > Asgard (my primary patron)
> flamen > privatus pro Ullerus
In Flanders, Ullr is the Northern tradition God of the
hunt and of skiing. How comes it that a follower of
Roman Paganism has Ullr as a patron Deity?
And should I post this type of email privately (I
don't want to get on anyone's nerves).
Diana
=====
|
| Subject: |
Dignatas |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:42:04 -0500 |
|
On 6 Oct 99, --------:51, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:
> For the Gods' sake! Grow up you two! Dignatis! DIGNATIS!
>
> Q. Fabius
You know something Fabius, your right.
Sometimes the Gansta bitch takes over. You know that.
Sorry
Pax
Crys Materna
|
| Subject: |
Re: ATTN: Graecus is back |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:05:07 EDT |
|
In a message dated 10/6/99 3:27:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> writes:
<<
I'm back to NR.
>>
Salve,
And how did the presentation go? Well I hope! :)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:27:33 -0400 (EDT) |
|
To Sulla:
Salve,Honored Consul Sulla;
Sir: I thank you for your kind and timely response. I am very
pleased that you agree with my wish to re-establish the Law Committee.
As I have said before I think it a necessary adjunct to our NR
government as both a place to generate new ideas to apply to the needs
of NR, and as a work center and gropu of experts as well. I should be
pleased to be considered as a member of such.
Vale, Honored Consul
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: ATTN: Graecus is back |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" amg@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:32:10 +0100 |
|
Salve Cassi
I've sent a report to the Senate. We have much work ahead! =)
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] ATTN: Graecus is back
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 10/6/99 3:27:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
><a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> writes:
>
><<
> I'm back to NR.
> >>
>
>Salve,
>
>And how did the presentation go? Well I hope! :)
>
>Vale,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>>
|
| Subject: |
Incivility Tax? |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:34:20 EDT |
|
Salvete Omnes,
Patricia Cassia has just resubscribed to the Nova Roma list after a long
absence. This new perspective gave her an amusing idea which she just called
me to tell me about. I present it here only half jokingly... I doubt it's
something we'll actually DO, but it really does seem like something we could
USE. ;)
Suppose we decided to place a tax on incivility on the Nova Roma list? In
other words, any time someone "goes off" on another Citizen, they would be
fined say, $2.00 to go into the NR treasury. Not only would we become
instantly more conscious about the effect of our words to others... but the
way things have been going Nova Roma would soon become a "Fortune 500"
organization! ;)
Yeah, I know, this is just TOO corny. (I even think there was an old Andy
Griffith episode with a similar theme!) But it does occur that public
behavior is probably easier to monitor than more subjective things, such as a
person's adherence to the Roman Virtues.
Anyway, if such a thing had been in place, the Nova Roma treasury would
probably have gained about $20.00 this week alone... enough to pay for our
Internet bill for the month.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) |
|
To; L. Licinius Varro Murena
I thank you for your inquiry. This is exactly the kind of thing that I
am talking about, wen I mention communication. Very often the
magistrates are bogged down with a hundred details, and the priority on
some items slip without thier notice. A central place or person needs
to be willing to ask the questions of the NR membership to bring the
item / subject to te fore again,and without entering into conflict,
I respectfully request that Scravola respond to this man's question and
to mine regarding the work that is being done in the area of the Nov
Roman Code, it's present status, rough idea of completion time and / or
holding situations which are blocking further action.
Marcus Mincius Audens
Candidate For Praetor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Incivility Tax? |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:48:00 -0500 |
|
On 6 Oct 99, --------:34, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> Anyway, if such a thing had been in place, the Nova Roma treasury would
> probably have gained about $20.00 this week alone... enough to pay for our
> Internet bill for the month.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
What's the address again? The check is in the mail!!
Crystallina Materna
|
| Subject: |
Incivility Tax? |
| From: |
Diana Aventina diana_aventina@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:57:46 -0700 (PDT) |
|
> Suppose we decided to place a tax on incivility on
> the Nova Roma list? In > other words, any time
someone "goes off" on another > Citizen, they would be
> fined say, $2.00 to go into the NR treasury.
Yes, that may be silly, but it is a cute idea.
Thank you very very much for your suggestion.
(I am trying to be extra-polite and civil :-)
Diana (doing nothing at work today but sending emails)
=====
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:14:02 -0400 (EDT) |
|
To;: L. Licinius Varro Murena;
I believe the Honorable Censor Germanicus has answered your question
regarding the link to Amazon. I would ask if not in the Macellum then
where do you think that it should be??
In regard to larger organizations being invoved in the Macellum the
purpose would be to get a pecentage of profits from the businesses
involved. Amazon was fairly easy to arrange as they have offered this
way to raise money whichwas why we got involved with them early on. I
am not sure if some of those that you mentioned would be willing to
donate 19 - 15% of the profits to NR. That would have to be negotiated
with each individual company and each would require some sort of
advantage for such an exchange. Our poblem has always been the
pursuence of good ideas like yours to their logical conclusion. I just
recieved a letter from another gentleman in NR who if he had the time,
has many contacts which are available to him, but because he is also
deeply involved in the inner workings of NR and running a business as
well, his time is limited.
In retrospect, perhaps a Macellum Committee of some sort to establish
commuications with some Net businesses to maintain records concerning
possible businesss for contact, results of past contacts, and
documentation and elements of contract agreements for successful
contacts might be established. This Committee however,would have to be
a working committee and not just an "idea" committee in order to reach
our goal.
The idea of taxes / dues is to pay our debts and to proceed along the
lines that NR is cmmitted to. In my estimation to rely upon donations
from members until the Macellum can be brought up to speed is not
satisfactory, however, the reduction of taxes / dues as the Macellum
begins to produce revenue certainly is. Much depends on the final
budget that is approved, and which is now before the Consuls for review.
I thank you for your good ideas, and would ask that you also consider
involving yourself further in contacting businesses and setting up such
a group of people to assist you.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens;
Candidate For Praetor
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Incivility Tax? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT) |
|
I do not think this at all corny. In most Military officer's clubs
there is a toll charge for coming to the bar and ordering with your hat
on. This is / was also found in Enlisted clubs and was stringently
enforced. While I am sure someone will remind me that this is not a
military club, I would respond that the need for civility among our
members is a necessity if we are to attact others. A candidte from
outside the U.S. cmmented earlier that the correction of another's
spelling on the open list dscouraged peole to whom English is a second
language from participating. How much more so the name calling on the
list. If that must be a part of your participation in NR, I would ask
for the future of the organization to which you belong to confine such
remarks t a private list or better still to write a snail mail letter to
give force to your feelings.
I do not set myself up a a prude or guardian, but certainly something
must be done to make NR a kinder and gentler place in which to spend
time.
Marcus Miucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Incivility Tax? (HUMOR ALERT) |
| From: |
Marius Fimbria legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:04:29 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salvete omnes...!
Scripsit Cassius Iulianus:
>> Suppose we decided to place a tax on incivility on
>> the Nova Roma list? In other words, any time
>> someone "goes off" on another Citizen, they would be
>> fined say, $2.00 to go into the NR treasury.
...et respondeo:
Oho, so I'm to be in the tax-farming business now, am I? Then, by
Thunderbunnies*, I shall respect and observe the traditions of those
who have gone before me--and insist on at least a 30% cut!! >({|;-P
'One Cuss fer a Dime, Two Cusses a Quarter;
If ya Cuss more'n That, it'll Cost at Least a Dollar.'
-- from an outhouse-shaped piggy-bank meant to be hung in the bathroom
(I see these at gift-shops sometimes)
* Thunderbunnies = byproduct of an old Air Force joke featuring Yours
Truly...Don't ask! [g]
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria, ListMod |>[SPQR]<|
'Silly Roman...Trix are for Kids!'
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:46 -0700 (PDT) |
|
It's probably the Edicta, and the question is how to
adapt a procedure designed for a face-to-face
community like Roma Antiqua into one that will work
for a virtual community like Nova Roma.
L. Licinius Varro Murena
--- Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
wrote:
>
>
> JSA wrote:
>
> > From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
> >
> > I thought the project of a Nova Roman code was
> well in
> > hand. Certainly I made extensive comments on such
> a
> > proposal circulated to me by Scaevola. What's
> going on
> > with that, anyway?
>
> Well I am not aware of such a code other than the
> Edicta that Praetor
> Scaveola has been working on....I have only seen one
> draft as of this
> date...Could you please inform me on exactly what
> you are referring. I
> would greatly appreciate that.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Consul
>
>
<HR>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:51:18 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> wrote:
> Salve!
>
> > From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
> >
> > I still think there are better ways to raise money
> > than to impose taxes or dues at this early stage
> in
> > NR's existence. For example, why not set up a
> separate
> > Bibliothecum page on the website, with recommended
> > books and mini-reviews by members, and then link
> them
> > to Amazon.com. The way its currently structured
> the
> > book list is buried in the Macellum page, and one
> > hardly knows it exists.
>
> An excellent suggestion, but unfortunately, one that
> has been in place since
> the very foundations of our Republic. Check out
> <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/bookstore.html</a> to
> see what I mean. It does
> need expanding, updating, and publicity, but it is
> there...
>
> Vale,
>
> Germanicus (who is probably still listed as the
> Amazon.com rep...)
>
Oh, I well know its there. My point was let's CHANGE
it so it is more visible and so we'll get more sales
and hence more money. Plus having it as a Bibliothecum
would make it a more useful resource to the citizens
of Nova Roma, as would links to primary source sites
on the web (in addition to the ones we already have).
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
God Biscuits (was Chocolate Cake) |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:12:39 PDT |
|
Salvete!
Venator scripsit:
>I agree totally on offering to the Holy Ones that which we like best. What
>is the sacrifice if you don't like spelt cakes, or some such consumables?
- absolutely. I forgot to mention (though I did post to the Religio List a
while ago) that I actually discovered some commercially-produced organic
spelt Roman cookies which are made with honey and hazelnuts, and which seem
acceptable to gods and mortals alike.
They are obtainable from wholefood retailers in Britannia, or can be ordered
from the supplier:
Doves Harm Foods Ltd, Hungerford, Berkshire RG17 0RF, UK. (No website or
e-mail, alas).
Valete bene,
Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT) |
|
> One thing I'd love to see would be the
> co-sponsoring of a major event
> with not only Nova Romans but with certain Asatru,
> Egyptian, and Celtic
> Reconstructionist groups. If it could be managed
> right I think it would
> be of great benefit/fun to everyone involved. I
> think even for our
> nonpagan citizens such an event could be really
> interesting. One day
> maybe...
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
\
Well, yes, this was my suggestion for holding a "Roman
Times" or "Ancient Times" faire, which should compete
fairly successfully with all those Renaissance Faires
(after all, those interested in Celtica could just as
easily attend an Ancient Faire as a Med/Ren faire).
Not only would you have various pagan and re-enactor
groups, lots and lots of people are interested in
ancient Greece, Egypt, Babylonia, and Rome too (one
could even have "ambassadors" from India or China
too).
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Re: personal statements, and uneasy friendships |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:27:24 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Yes, though there is precedent for this behavior in
Roma Antiqua. Not infrequently candidates (especially
the tribunes) would make pointed remarks and insults
against other Romans, including the highest
magistrates and senior senators, and those speaking on
the rostra would also have to put up with hecklers
from the audience. Our heckling here is quite mild in
comparison (cf. the various remarks made about Julius
Caesar).
L. Licinius Varro Murena
--- Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
wrote:
> Of course they should be....I hope our list
> moderator might assist us with
> this subject.
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
> Consul
>
> "Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" wrote:
>
> > From: "Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith"
<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">> <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166091165042237215056001163243012136219139046209" >darth_vilmur@--------</a>
> >
> > not being one to point fingers, but........
> >
> > shouldn't personal messages be sent privately?
> > just a thought
> >
> >
>
<HR>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: SALVETE! |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:26:37 PDT |
|
Salutem!
Scripsit Q. Fabius Maximus:
>Today the citizens began to vote and I'd like to take this opportunity to
>remind you why to vote for Q. Fabius Maximus for Praetor Urbanus.
>I. Piety. I am a pagan. I have no other conflicts in my Religio. I have
>no
>choice to ever make. And even though some people claim that being a
>practitioner of Religio is not necessary to be Praetor Urbanus, I disagree.
>We want the favor of the gods to shine on the magistrate in office. At
>least
>I would want that.
Respondeo:
Dii, vostram fidem! Quinte Fabi, I would say that being a Roman pagan does
not of itself confer the favour of the gods of Rome. And are you implying
here that you believe that the gods do not approve of a good Christian? Or a
Jew? Or an atheist? I think that would be an extremely unfortunate belief to
express publicly (a pretty dubious opinion to hold, anyway). If this is what
you really think, would you try to make a law debarring non-Pagans from
holding office in NR? Are you advocating that we resume the persecution of
the Christians? And the Jews?
I think you owe the voters of Nova Roma an explanation.
N. Moravius Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:37:05 PDT |
|
Salvete iterum, mei populari!
Scripsit M. Minucius Audens ad L. Corneliam Sullam (somebody please correct
the grammar, I'm almost sure it's wrong)...
>Sir: I respectfully submit the name of Merrullus and Vado who have
>demonstrated a close understanding of the Roman Law and as members of NR
>having a incisive interllect and a sensitive feel for the way things
>should be done. I have had the honor to speak of them in glowng terms
>to the Senior Consul in my capacity as his clerk-advisor and I now bring
>their names to your attention.
Respondeo: I have to point out that some mistake has been made here. I never
contributed to the making of either constitution and have only ever raised
questions and criticisms on certain points of law and their interpretation,
as any active citizen might.
Surely L. Licinius Varro Murena is meant here? At least, I hope he is, as he
(along with Merullus) deserves such praise, and I do not.
Valete,
N. Moravius Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ullr |
| From: |
Alasdair Morgan Gunn amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:35:09 -0700 |
|
Salve Diana Aventina,
Venator scripsit -
Diana Aventina wrote:
>
> From: Diana Aventina <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176113185158237169037163101249089000144044067209130152" >diana_aventina@--------</a>
>
> Dear Venator,
>
> > While UllR of > Asgard (my primary patron)
>
> > flamen > privatus pro Ullerus
>
> In Flanders, Ullr is the Northern tradition God of the
> hunt and of skiing. How comes it that a follower of
> Roman Paganism has Ullr as a patron Deity?
> And should I post this type of email privately (I
> don't want to get on anyone's nerves).
> Diana
>
As others may already have informed you, I am not a Roman Pagan, I am a
Germano-Nordic Heathen. I have been close to Elderfather Uller since
visiting him during a shamanic experience in July of 1989. Don't worry
about asking valid questions of me in public, everyone knows that there is a
barbarian within the gates <(;-{)
As a man of mixed heritage, I am oathed to the Holy Ones of the North, but
give honor to the Olympians as cousins of the Aesir and Vanir of Asgard.
Yes, the Uller you know is the same UllR to whom I am oathed, the perfect
patron for a hunter, archer and winter lover.
Thank you for your inquiry. May all the Holy Ones send thee and thine
blessings.
In Amicus - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Basis of Gov't. (was: Attention Lictors...) |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:51:46 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
wrote:
> Well that isn't exactly true....the nature of
> government, isn't formed
> precisely because of force....it derives its power
> and ability to influence
> by force.
Only those that are authoritarian or dictatorial by
nature derive their power by force. This, by the way,
is not the basis for American government.
For example....if you look at Plato....he
> feels that there are
> just some people born to lead...this is illustrated
> many times in the
> Republic....He felt that society, given the noble
> lie....can best lead a
> society by utilizing a strict education hierarchy.
> Force, if I recall
> correctly wasn't necessary because the government
> was supposed to assist
> every strata of society.
Plato did, however, come up with a different
formulation in his later work _The Laws_.
Now, if you go through
> 2,000 years to someone like
> Hobbes...you are partially correct. However, how
> was government supposed to
> exist? It just doesn't come into being....it is
> agreed upon.
Not according to Aristotle, for whom government, and
society, was organic.
If you
> research Thomas Hobbes, view of the nature of
> man...we are at war with
> everyone....and the only way to end that state is to
> agree to form a
> government which does have coercive (sp) power over
> all of the individuals
> who helped and consent to be ruled by the State.
We are at war with everyone because according to
Hobbes the Nature of Man is evil. If, however, this is
not true, then the entire nature of government, and,
indeed, the question of government itself, is entirely
different.
> Therefore....while the
> government has the power to use force to enforce its
> laws and other
> actions. It is essentially the individual who
> allows, either directly or
> tacitly to be ruled by such an institution. We at
> Nova Roma, have given our
> direct consent by applying for citizenship to
> respect, obey and enforce
> those laws. Otherwise....the duty of government is
> to enforce the laws.
I would suggest this is a particularly BAD model for
any type of government, particularly Nova Roma (not
quite as bad as Rousseau, but still quite bad). The
trouble with Hobbes is that the contractual
relationship does not include the Sovereign (person or
body), and, hence, the latter is not bound by the
contract. Thus, as part of an effort to end the war of
all against all, we all come together and give up all
our rights to the person or persons whom the majority
decides should rule, and we are, then, only allowed
those rights which the Sovereign deigns to give us.
The Sovereign, then, not being a party to this
contract, can never breach it, and, thus, there is no
legitimacy to any form of rebellion or resistance to
the Sovereign.
If, then, Nova Roma is to be a Dictatorship along the
lines of Roma Antiqua's Principate or Dominate, the
Hobbesian/Platonic model would be most apt; but
otherwise government receives its mandate not through
force but by the consent of the governed.
>
> Now, if you would like to read further. Please
> read, Plato's Republic
> and/or Thomas Hobbes Leviathan.
>
I would suggest that instead you read Aristotle's
Nichomachean Ethics and the Politics, and, in
particular, Locke, Montesqueiu, Kropotkin, Mill, and,
perhaps, L. T. Hobson.
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:58:22 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:
> In a message dated 10/5/99 2:58:45 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:
>
> << Certainly I made extensive comments on such a
> proposal circulated to me by Scaevola. >>
> Salve Lucius Licinius
> So did I. I never received any reply. I assumed
> that he has been to busy to
> reply.
> Have you heard differently?
> Vale
> Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
No. Scaevola, in fact, hasn't been active on this list
for at least two weeks. Perhaps he is bogged down in
academic work (as I will be next week in grading
mid-terms).
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
> To;: L. Licinius Varro Murena;
>
> I believe the Honorable Censor Germanicus has
> answered your question
> regarding the link to Amazon. I would ask if not in
> the Macellum then
> where do you think that it should be??
Yes, he has, but I found the answer unsatisfactory. As
I proposed, why not a separate "Bibliothecum" page
with recommended books on various aspects of Roma
Antiqua along with mini-reviews on their
appropriateness for different levels of knowledge or
practioners of the religio, AND a link to Amazon.com.
As I stated, as it presently stands this is buried in
the Macellum, and is not immediately obvious to those
who go to the main page that NR has such a feature.
>
> In regard to larger organizations being invoved in
> the Macellum the
> purpose would be to get a pecentage of profits from
> the businesses
> involved. Amazon was fairly easy to arrange as they
> have offered this
> way to raise money whichwas why we got involved with
> them early on. I
> am not sure if some of those that you mentioned
> would be willing to
> donate 19 - 15% of the profits to NR. That would
> have to be negotiated
> with each individual company and each would require
> some sort of
> advantage for such an exchange.
We don't have to ask for 15% of the profits. Why not
5%, even 1%? Some money is better than no money.
Our poblem has
> always been the
> pursuence of good ideas like yours to their logical
> conclusion. I just
> recieved a letter from another gentleman in NR who
> if he had the time,
> has many contacts which are available to him, but
> because he is also
> deeply involved in the inner workings of NR and
> running a business as
> well, his time is limited.
As an academic with innumerable committments, my time
is limited too (along with my meager pay).
>
> In retrospect, perhaps a Macellum Committee of some
> sort to establish
> commuications with some Net businesses to maintain
> records concerning
> possible businesss for contact, results of past
> contacts, and
> documentation and elements of contract agreements
> for successful
> contacts might be established. This Committee
> however,would have to be
> a working committee and not just an "idea" committee
> in order to reach
> our goal.
Good. Appoint some of the magistrates, perhaps the
Quaestors and Aediles, to do this.
>
> The idea of taxes / dues is to pay our debts and to
> proceed along the
> lines that NR is cmmitted to. In my estimation to
> rely upon donations
> from members until the Macellum can be brought up to
> speed is not
> satisfactory, however, the reduction of taxes / dues
> as the Macellum
> begins to produce revenue certainly is.
Well, if we members get something in return for our
dues, perhaps. Remember, right now we don't even have
to be citizens to participate on the main lists.
Much
> depends on the final
> budget that is approved, and which is now before the
> Consuls for review.
> I thank you for your good ideas, and would ask that
> you also consider
> involving yourself further in contacting businesses
> and setting up such
> a group of people to assist you.
Business is something I know nothing about, nor, given
my current committments, do I wish to know anything
further (except, perhaps, getting royalties from my
publications). I suggest that this is something that
the Magistrates should be doing, along the lines of
embassies to other groups--who better? Shouldn't the
magistrates be doing something to promote various ways
of raising revenues, instead of proposing various laws
designed to milk the plebeians of their hard-won
denarii?
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
Mike Macnair MikeMacnair@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:11:00 -0400 |
|
Salvete!
Just an info message and update in response to Audens' question about the
draft Edict. Apologies for not being on earlier; as Varro Murena suggested,
I have been rather busy at work.
At the end of July I completed a first draft of a Praetorian Edict on civil
procedure - that is, a how-to-do-it for lawsuits between citizens. I
circulated it to the Consuls, the surviving (as far as I could see) members
of the Law Committee, and Merullus for comment on the Latin. I have
subsequently circulated it to the candidates for Praetor and to Varro
Murena and Justus as roman law experts.
I have had helpful critical comments on the law back from Palladius and
Varro Murena and (so far briefly) Justus on the law and from Merullus on
the latin. (Sorry Maximus, yours seem to have got lost in cyberspace). What
I haven't managed to do so far is to make a few hours of DAYLIGHT time to
sit down with the text and put all these together and see what to do. I
plan then to redraft what I have and post the whole lot in segments to this
list for general comment.
I should say that (as Varro Murena has said) there is one critical problem.
Roman law was designed round face to face legal proceedings, far more so,
in fact, than late medieval English or modern Anglo-American law. How to
adapt this to a virtual environment is inevitably going to cause trouble.
Civil Procedure is one little bit of a code of laws. We also need (1)
Criminal procedure (2) criminal law (3) civil (private) law. The first two
aren't so difficult, but on the third the romans wrote millions of words,
and those which survive have had millions more written on them by academics
from around 1200 to the present day. Prof. Reinhard Zimmermann's "short"
introductory book on the roman law of Obligations (contracts and torts)
which I use for teaching first year common law students, is over 1000 pages
long! I've gone for civil procedure first for the reason that medieval and
early modern civil procedure is roughly in my specialist field. I would
recommend the sequence in this paragraph as being the most practical way of
approaching the problem. Roman statutes, in contrast, are mostly
incomprehensible without their context - and that includes the earliest,
the XII Tables.
Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Incivility Tax? (HUMOR ALERT) |
| From: |
dean6886@--------) |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:23:34 -0500 (CDT) |
|
How about a public flogging instead with admission fees? That ought
to boost revenues right away. The offending citizen has to also pay
travel expenses for someone named Brutus the Enforcer. Plus there's
always the kickbacks from the hotdog venders.
Gaius Drusus Domitianus
( not a friend of the cows)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Incivility Tax? (HUMOR ALERT) |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:35:26 -0700 |
|
Charging for admission...Oh I like it...This sounds very promising...hehehe
;) With kickbacks from vendors...beer vendors, t-shirt, and other
accessories..and we can even market dolls....and little toy whips and other
devices..LOL..Yeah...I can just see it now.. :)
L. Cornelius Sulla
Dean Troy wrote:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
> How about a public flogging instead with admission fees? That ought
> to boost revenues right away. The offending citizen has to also pay
> travel expenses for someone named Brutus the Enforcer. Plus there's
> always the kickbacks from the hotdog venders.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
> ( not a friend of the cows)
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Incivility Tax? (HUMOR ALERT) |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:41:10 -0500 |
|
On 6 Oct 99, at 15:23, Dean Troy wrote:
> How about a public flogging instead with admission fees? That ought to
> boost revenues right away. The offending citizen has to also pay travel
> expenses for someone named Brutus the Enforcer. Plus there's always the
> kickbacks from the hotdog venders.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
> ( not a friend of the cows)
Heck, how bout I just shoot myself in the foot. The offended could
choose between 4 guns (3 rifles and a pistol) unless he is willing to
wait until after my birthday when there will be an additional pistol to
choose from.
Crys Materna (ready to put her feet up <G>)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:25:06 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> wrote:
> Quoth L. Licinius Varro Murena (can't figure out
> which name to call him
> by):
>
The historical L. Licinius Varro Murena was normally
known as "Varro Murena" so that's ok by me.
> > this was my suggestion for holding a "Roman
> >Times" or "Ancient Times" faire, which should
> compete
> >fairly successfully with all those Renaissance
> Faires...
>
> What an excellent idea! I wonder what it would take
> to make such a thing
> happen?
>
> Some things I can think of:
> - land, preferably with plenty of parking and
> modern plumbing (very
> few people extend their pursuit of historical
> authenticity as far as the
> toilet). Ideally this would be near a major city or
> university center.
Yeah. Though we should probably skip the Vomitorium.
> - whatever government permits are necessary
> (would you want a liquor
> license?)
Probably. You'd want to sell wine or beer. It would be
great if you could have a vendor selling spiced wine,
but that might be pushing it a bit when first starting
out.
> - whatever you're going to use for buildings
> (tents, stages, shops)
At first probably tents and booths. Maybe eventually
it could turn into something more permanent, like
those "Medieval Times" supper clubs, or like Colonial
Williamsburg (thinking here WAY down the line!).
> - a program of entertainment - Greek plays?
> Poetry? It would be
> tough to find ancient-music performers, but it might
> be possible.
> Military re-enactment is good but there should be
> some cultural content
> as well, with enough events through the day to make
> it worthwhile for a
> visitor to stay. Perhaps a re-enactment of a
> non-bloody religious ritual
> such as an augury?
Well, quite a lot of things can be done. To my mind
recreation of pagan religious rituals (by modern
practitioners) should be a key ingredient of this
faire (though I suppose actual sacrifices of animals
would probably be out). And these might or should be
keyed to actual festivals which historically were
celebrated on the days of our Faire.
The military re-enactors could do something like
Thermopylae, Cannae, Teutoburgerwald, whatever.
Instead of mock jousts, mock gladiatorial games,
perhaps chariot races, some typical athletic events
done in ancient times.
Tragedies, Comedies, mime farces, etc. would be a good
thing. Maybe even a recreation of a noted
trial--something involving Cicero, for example, a
daily Senate meeting, an Ostracism in progress,
whatever.
> - enough merchants willing to come in on the
> thing to make it
> workable. Food vendors are especially vital (as
> Cassius and I can
> testify, having attended a Renaissance faire this
> year where the only
> available food was kielbasa). Historical food is
> possible, but some
> vendors should cater to modern tastes as well.
Yes, like one Faire that offered "Nottingham Nachos".
Perhaps we can have "Paestum Pizza", the Asatru groups
can provide Beer & Bratwurst, etc. Start out with
modern food, eventually start providing more
historical fare.
> - decent weather (perhaps the Pontifices could
> work on this?)
> - lots of publicity! Photos and press releases
> in any available
> venue, $1-off coupons in local papers, free
> admission for news crews,
> perhaps some kind of PR event such as holding a
> Roman Senate gathering,
> in togas, on the steps of City Hall.
Well, my idea was making it not just a Roman event,
but bringing pagans and re-enactors from other
traditions of the ancient world into it as well--Celts
from Gallia and Hibernia, Asatru and Theudish from
Germania, plus those interested in ancient Egypt,
Greece, Mesopotamia, etc. Not just a place for
re-enactment, but also for public pagan worship (well,
within limits, remember, we'd like to draw in not just
adults, but teens, student groups, etc.).
>
> I am NOT volunteering to organize this, but would be
> willing to help with
> the publicity if someone else decides to put
> together a group and work on
> it.
Well, I could do some work, but I think the best place
to start would be holding these events back East (I'm
in L.A.), where there are more pagans and it seems
re-enactors.
>
> One place to start might be with the people who run
> your local
> Renaissance Faire. Their sites often go unused when
> the faire is not in
> session, and the host communities' police and
> governmental officials will
> already be familiar with the sorts of things they
> need to do to cope with
> this kind of event.
>
Good idea!
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:43:17 -0500 |
|
On 6 Oct 99, at 17:35, Pat Washburn wrote:
> - land, preferably with plenty of parking and modern plumbing (very
> few people extend their pursuit of historical authenticity as far as the
> toilet). Ideally this would be near a major city or university center.
MS is still out of the question I take it.
Crystallina Materna (gonna have to stomach selling the stupid
acreage :-( )
|
| Subject: |
Re: amazon link |
| From: |
JSA varromurena@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:40:32 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> wrote:
> Surely it would be possible to leave the Macellum
> where it is, but find
> ways to more prominently feature it on the home
> page, thus accomplishing
> both stability (for the benefit of those who may
> have bookmarked it) and
> visibility?
Well, that was my whole point--as it stands, you
hardly know it exists. I even suggested the amazon.com
thing, not knowing NR already had a bookstore and
arrangement that did just that!
However, more books need to be added, and reviews of
these books by citizens should be encouraged (I'm
willing to do my part).
L. Licinius Varro Murena
|
| Subject: |
Q Fabius Maximus |
| From: |
DTibbe2926@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:44:10 EDT |
|
Citizens,
I support Q Fabius Maximus for Praetor.
I have voted.
Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus
Provincia Britannia
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:11:18 -0700 |
|
This is one site I got from doing a web search with "living history" as the
search words. The organization/corporation that started the California
Renaissance Faires was called Living History Centre at one time. There is
now a Living History International. Their web sites should provide a fair
amount of information for researchers.
This site is a UK group of Anglo-Saxon reenactors.
<a href="http://www.cix.co.uk/~novar/renact.htm" target="_top" >http://www.cix.co.uk/~novar/renact.htm</a>
Now on to Cassia's post, and some comments of mine:
Cassia wrote:
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> Quoth L. Licinius Varro Murena (can't figure out which name to call him
> by):
>
> > this was my suggestion for holding a "Roman
> >Times" or "Ancient Times" faire, which should compete
> >fairly successfully with all those Renaissance Faires...
>
> What an excellent idea! I wonder what it would take to make such a thing
> happen?
>
> Some things I can think of:
> - land, preferably with plenty of parking and modern plumbing (very
> few people extend their pursuit of historical authenticity as far as the
> toilet). Ideally this would be near a major city or university center.
> - whatever government permits are necessary (would you want a liquor
> license?)
-Definitely a liquor license. (Mind you, I do not drink.) I went to a Old
San Francisco Fair that that Phyllis Patterson's Living History group put on
that had no liquor license. It was dead. Almost no one but the staff. This
might be hard to get.
- Also, (actually, *****FIRST*****) -- Insurance! Turkeys will get hurt.
Turkeys will sue. (We who worked Faire called the customers "turkeys" when
they couldn't hear. Much as carnival people call customers "marks".) Even
if there are no alcoholic beverages. A trip. A stumble. An injury. A law
suit.
There will be all sorts of permits needed. An inspections by the appropriate
agencies (e.g. fire marshall, health department, local police agencies
(urban, county and state with Northern Faire).
There are "Renn Faires", and such, all over now. One approach to this
project would be to sound out a group/organization/corporation that puts on a
regular period faire and talk to them. Maybe even get them in on it. Their
expertise and connections might be worth the cost. I'm sure Fabius can tell
numerous tales about the advantage of doing things professionally.
> - whatever you're going to use for buildings (tents, stages, shops)
> - a program of entertainment - Greek plays? Poetry? It would be
> tough to find ancient-music performers, but it might be possible.
Renn Faire works over period pieces, this could be done with the lighter
Classical works. Plautus has some lines that seem down right Modern.
> Military re-enactment is good but there should be some cultural content
> as well, with enough events through the day to make it worthwhile for a
> visitor to stay. Perhaps a re-enactment of a non-bloody religious ritual
> such as an augury?
> - enough merchants willing to come in on the thing to make it
> workable. Food vendors are especially vital (as Cassius and I can
> testify, having attended a Renaissance faire this year where the only
> available food was kielbasa). Historical food is possible, but some
> vendors should cater to modern tastes as well.
There are vendors and crafts people that make their living working the Renn
Faires (et al.).As you have probably seen, their wares are not exactly
"period" but can blend in, and gives the "fair goers" that watch amateur
performers go around entertaining themselves. (That is how it looks to a lot
of the people who go to Faire year after year. There are also the droves of
people who go because they feel the magic of the "time warp".)
> - decent weather (perhaps the Pontifices could work on this?)
Weather management is not part of the pontifices job. It is a sideline ({;-)
> - lots of publicity! Photos and press releases in any available
> venue, $1-off coupons in local papers, free admission for news crews,
> perhaps some kind of PR event such as holding a Roman Senate gathering,
> in togas, on the steps of City Hall.
>
> I am NOT volunteering to organize this, but would be willing to help with
> the publicity if someone else decides to put together a group and work on
> it.
And I am NOT [*N*O*T*] going to do it either.
>
>
> One place to start might be with the people who run your local
> Renaissance Faire. Their sites often go unused when the faire is not in
> session, and the host communities' police and governmental officials will
> already be familiar with the sorts of things they need to do to cope with
> this kind of event.
>
Yes, yes, yes. As I ruminated above.
> Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> --------
C. Aelius EriciusPropraetor of California Provincia
Senator of Nova Roma
Augur & Pontifex
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:52:44 -0700 |
|
I think Q. Fabius Maximus would be great in organizing this...he did a Damn
good job for Celebrate History.... I don't think there is anyone in Nova
Roma who has the ability, experience and resources....Just look at his Games
he has thrown, the Social War game that is going on...and the Celebrate
History convention that he planned and fronted most of the money for it. If
anyone can make a great success out of something like this....I know it
would definitely be Q. Fabius!
L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul
----- Original Message -----
From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Ancient Faire
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
> This is one site I got from doing a web search with "living history" as
the
> search words. The organization/corporation that started the California
> Renaissance Faires was called Living History Centre at one time. There is
> now a Living History International. Their web sites should provide a fair
> amount of information for researchers.
> This site is a UK group of Anglo-Saxon reenactors.
> <a href="http://www.cix.co.uk/~novar/renact.htm" target="_top" >http://www.cix.co.uk/~novar/renact.htm</a>
>
> Now on to Cassia's post, and some comments of mine:
>
>
> Cassia wrote:
>
> > <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
> >
> > Quoth L. Licinius Varro Murena (can't figure out which name to call him
> > by):
> >
> > > this was my suggestion for holding a "Roman
> > >Times" or "Ancient Times" faire, which should compete
> > >fairly successfully with all those Renaissance Faires...
> >
> > What an excellent idea! I wonder what it would take to make such a thing
> > happen?
> >
> > Some things I can think of:
> > - land, preferably with plenty of parking and modern plumbing (very
> > few people extend their pursuit of historical authenticity as far as the
> > toilet). Ideally this would be near a major city or university center.
> > - whatever government permits are necessary (would you want a
liquor
> > license?)
>
> -Definitely a liquor license. (Mind you, I do not drink.) I went to a
Old
> San Francisco Fair that that Phyllis Patterson's Living History group put
on
> that had no liquor license. It was dead. Almost no one but the staff.
This
> might be hard to get.
>
> - Also, (actually, *****FIRST*****) -- Insurance! Turkeys will get hurt.
> Turkeys will sue. (We who worked Faire called the customers "turkeys"
when
> they couldn't hear. Much as carnival people call customers "marks".)
Even
> if there are no alcoholic beverages. A trip. A stumble. An injury. A
law
> suit.
>
> There will be all sorts of permits needed. An inspections by the
appropriate
> agencies (e.g. fire marshall, health department, local police agencies
> (urban, county and state with Northern Faire).
>
> There are "Renn Faires", and such, all over now. One approach to this
> project would be to sound out a group/organization/corporation that puts
on a
> regular period faire and talk to them. Maybe even get them in on it.
Their
> expertise and connections might be worth the cost. I'm sure Fabius can
tell
> numerous tales about the advantage of doing things professionally.
>
>
> > - whatever you're going to use for buildings (tents, stages, shops)
> > - a program of entertainment - Greek plays? Poetry? It would be
> > tough to find ancient-music performers, but it might be possible.
>
> Renn Faire works over period pieces, this could be done with the lighter
> Classical works. Plautus has some lines that seem down right Modern.
>
> > Military re-enactment is good but there should be some cultural content
> > as well, with enough events through the day to make it worthwhile for a
> > visitor to stay. Perhaps a re-enactment of a non-bloody religious ritual
> > such as an augury?
> > - enough merchants willing to come in on the thing to make it
> > workable. Food vendors are especially vital (as Cassius and I can
> > testify, having attended a Renaissance faire this year where the only
> > available food was kielbasa). Historical food is possible, but some
> > vendors should cater to modern tastes as well.
>
> There are vendors and crafts people that make their living working the
Renn
> Faires (et al.).As you have probably seen, their wares are not exactly
> "period" but can blend in, and gives the "fair goers" that watch amateur
> performers go around entertaining themselves. (That is how it looks to a
lot
> of the people who go to Faire year after year. There are also the droves
of
> people who go because they feel the magic of the "time warp".)
>
> > - decent weather (perhaps the Pontifices could work on this?)
>
> Weather management is not part of the pontifices job. It is a sideline
({;-)
>
> > - lots of publicity! Photos and press releases in any available
> > venue, $1-off coupons in local papers, free admission for news crews,
> > perhaps some kind of PR event such as holding a Roman Senate gathering,
> > in togas, on the steps of City Hall.
> >
> > I am NOT volunteering to organize this, but would be willing to help
with
> > the publicity if someone else decides to put together a group and work
on
> > it.
>
> And I am NOT [*N*O*T*] going to do it either.
>
> >
> >
> > One place to start might be with the people who run your local
> > Renaissance Faire. Their sites often go unused when the faire is not in
> > session, and the host communities' police and governmental officials
will
> > already be familiar with the sorts of things they need to do to cope
with
> > this kind of event.
> >
>
> Yes, yes, yes. As I ruminated above.
>
> > Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
> > <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
> >
> > --------
>
> C. Aelius EriciusPropraetor of California Provincia
> Senator of Nova Roma
> Augur & Pontifex
>
> >
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
"M. Papirius Justus" papirius@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:53:01 -0400 |
|
At 04:11 PM 06/10/1999 -0400, you wrote:
I should say that (as Varro Murena has said) there is one critical problem.
Roman law was designed round face to face legal proceedings, far more so,
in fact, than late medieval English or modern Anglo-American law. How to
adapt this to a virtual environment is inevitably going to cause trouble.
Respondeo:
While I would never disagree that Roman law was designed as a face to face
thing, it is worth noting that the system was flexible enough that it could
rather easily be adapted for a 'virtual environment'. What's even better is
that there are imperial precedents, among the best of which is one of
Pliny's letters (10.81). Pliny decided he could not decide the case himself
and isntructed the litigants to put their arguments in writing so the
emperor could judge the case from their written words. It strikes me that
this is precisely the sort of thing which would lend itself to judgments
(when necessary) in Nova Roma ...
That said, for the face to face bit, I don't see why a chat room couldn't
be used, with voter codes subsequently being used for verdicts ...
mpj
]|[ M. Papirius Justus ]|[ <a href="http://web.idirect.com/~atrium" target="_top" >http://web.idirect.com/~atrium</a> ]|[
|
| Subject: |
Re: Law Committee |
| From: |
SDmtwi@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:12:21 EDT |
|
Salve, M Papiri.
> That said, for the face to face bit, I don't see why a chat room couldn't
> be used, with voter codes subsequently being used for verdicts ...
This is probably not a good option, as it would be difficult to maintain the
current level of security that a citizen's voter code currently enjoys. The
main reason for using the codes is to allow citizens to vote anonymously
while preventing ballot stuffing and other voting improprieties. Therefore,
every effort should be made to keep those codes as secret as an important
password. In fact, as has been pointed out, that is exactly what they are.
Or, are you suggesting that a jury member would cast his or her vote in an
online form like the current cista page, and have that vote tabulated by the
rogatores? Why not just have the jury be present during a trial and have
them cast votes in person at the end?
Vale,
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:13:10 -0700 |
|
Ericius here.
RCW wrote:
> From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
> I think Q. Fabius Maximus would be great in organizing this...he did a Damn
> good job for Celebrate History.
Uh.. excuse me. Remember me? I put out the early word on Celebrate History. I
sent posts to the list. Fabius and I did some working together. Fabius put on
a game. I got together a variety of printed material, paid for from my own
pocket without any thought of asking Nova Roma for recompense. I went down there
early and set up the table The table that YOU, Sulla, paid for. I interacted
with the organizers. Fabius was still slugging his way up the coast. I kept
going by the table during the convention to keep an eye on it. i interacted, on
a friendly basis, with Bob Garbisch of the Legio X Fretensis. I also spent a
whole day taking part in Fabius's game.
Fabius did a lot. Nova Roma would not have been a presence at Celebrate History
without Fabius. Nova Roma would not have been a prisons at Celebrate history
without Ericius. Nova Roma would not have been a presence at Celebrate History
without you, Sulla, and you were not even able to make because of an emergency
in your family. If it wasn't for Fabius's game, and if we did have a table, I
would have spent more time actually manning the table. Fabius laid out a
frightening amount of money on leaflets for the Celebrate history convention,
leaflets that are, unfortunately, super specific for the game he put on at that
convention. Do not rob yourself of your role in Nova Roma's participation in
Celebrate History. Do not rob Fabius of his role in Celebrate History. Do not
try and rob me of my role in Celebrate History. Do not put a shadow on that
event, it was good to meet Fabius. He is a good joe. He knows a lot. His
energy is boundless (REALLY!). But...
> ... I don't think there is anyone in Nova
> Roma who has the ability, experience and resources...
Yes there are.
> .Just look at his Games
> he has thrown, the Social War game that is going on...
and are of no interest to a fair number of people.
> and the Celebrate
> History convention that he planned
see the above.
> and fronted most of the money for it.
I do believe that the amount of money he/you said he spent on those leaflets was
staggering.But...
The money that got Nova Roma the table was Yours. Fabius is the man who got
Nova Roma the
slot it got. Well, Bob Garbisch and his Legio X Fretensis had actually gotten
the slot by the front door, as had the other "ancient" societies that were at
Celebrate History. Romans on one side of the pillar, Medieval on the other
side. Like the organizers of the Celebrate History convention had decided on
that themselves. That is the impression I got while I was talking to them
during set up Friday morning. And Saturday, before I got locked into Fabius's
game of First Cremona in the civil war of 69 ad.
But, yes. I believe that Fabius would be a good person to organize an ancient
fair. That Boundless Energy (WOW!). His knowledge, both as a history buff and
(especially) in the entertainment industry. When we were at dinner after the
game and a good bull session, I saw some of his planning/brainstorming. But...
I did not want to volunteer someone for a grueling job. I thought I would let
the man step forward himself. [Ericius wonders just what Sulla is poking Fabius
in the back with! ;-) ]
Well, Fabius? Can you do it? LHC's big surviving gig is Southern Faire. The
contacts are down there. Eh?
In service to Roma Immortalis.
C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor of California Provincia
Senator of Nova Roma
Augur & Pontifex
Member of the College of Pontiffs.
Di Deaque te ament.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Ancient Faire |
| From: |
"RCW" alexious@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:31:48 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:13 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Ancient Faire
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
> Ericius here.
>
> RCW wrote:
>
> > From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> > I think Q. Fabius Maximus would be great in organizing this...he did a
Damn
> > good job for Celebrate History.
>
> Uh.. excuse me. Remember me? I put out the early word on Celebrate
History. I
> sent posts to the list.
Sulla: Yes I remeber that...but my post didnt discuss that....it discussed
the planning and cost of the event. :) I didnt mean to step on your toe
Ericius but he did have the game event there and Q.Fabius paid quite a bit
for the game out of his own pocket. That was my point.
Fabius and I did some working together. Fabius put on
> a game. I got together a variety of printed material, paid for from my
own
> pocket without any thought of asking Nova Roma for recompense. I went down
there
> early and set up the table The table that YOU, Sulla, paid for.
Sulla: Yes I remember that too...I didnt deny that I did not pay for the
table...I am just saying that Q. Fabius would be an excellent organizer in
such an event. His producer mentality and his exposure to the entertianment
industry would make him a very postive and very dependable organizer for
such an event.
I interacted
> with the organizers. Fabius was still slugging his way up the coast. I
kept
> going by the table during the convention to keep an eye on it. i
interacted, on
> a friendly basis, with Bob Garbisch of the Legio X Fretensis. I also
spent a
> whole day taking part in Fabius's game.
Sulla: As did I....I some of my infomration from Celebrate History from
you...and I got alot of information from Q. Fabius...I still have the
e-mails saved...Ericius here on my puter... :) I am not stepping on your
toes...I was just making a point, that I know Q. Fabius would be
excellent...Remember you did appoint him as Legate over Southern Californai
and of Las Vegas precisely becuase he does get things done....Correct??
> Fabius did a lot. Nova Roma would not have been a presence at Celebrate
History
> without Fabius. Nova Roma would not have been a prisons at Celebrate
history
> without Ericius. Nova Roma would not have been a presence at Celebrate
History
> without you, Sulla, and you were not even able to make because of an
emergency
> in your family. If it wasn't for Fabius's game, and if we did have a
table, I
> would have spent more time actually manning the table. Fabius laid out a
> frightening amount of money on leaflets for the Celebrate history
convention,
> leaflets that are, unfortunately, super specific for the game he put on at
that
> convention. Do not rob yourself of your role in Nova Roma's participation
in
> Celebrate History. Do not rob Fabius of his role in Celebrate History.
Do not
> try and rob me of my role in Celebrate History. Do not put a shadow on
that
> event, it was good to meet Fabius. He is a good joe. He knows a lot.
His
> energy is boundless (REALLY!). But...
Ericius....I am not demeaning any of our roles....all of us was important to
the function that was the first major West Coast advertisment of Nova
Roma.....However, I still stand by my word there. Q. Fabius....did alot...
Pure and simple....
> > ... I don't think there is anyone in Nova
> > Roma who has the ability, experience and resources...
>
> Yes there are.
Who has the experience that Q. Fabius does???
> > .Just look at his Games
> > he has thrown, the Social War game that is going on...
>
> and are of no interest to a fair number of people.
But for many cives they are very unique...they show a flair and are a source
of entertainment to many civies who participate, myself included.
> > and the Celebrate
> > History convention that he planned
>
> see the above.
>
> > and fronted most of the money for it.
>
> I do believe that the amount of money he/you said he spent on those
leaflets was
> staggering.
Yes it was...but they were damned good flyers...I still have one....even
though I couldnt be there....Fabius did the entire layout of the flyer and I
wrote one article, which he proofed and edited.. :)
But...
> The money that got Nova Roma the table was Yours.
Of course that was.....Remember when you said I had Imperium over the table.
;) I remember that...
Fabius is the man who got
> Nova Roma the
> slot it got.
Yes he did....He did a great job getting us in there....since the timeframe
was so pressing... :) Again that reflects his leadership aspect and ability
to get things accomplished.
Well, Bob Garbisch and his Legio X Fretensis had actually gotten
> the slot by the front door, as had the other "ancient" societies that were
at
> Celebrate History.
Yes I know I spoke to him on the phone as well as with others associated
with Celebrate History... :) Remember, til Fabius got ahold of them
Celebrate History thought we were apart of the LegioX Fretensis...but Q.
Fabius and I corrected that.
Romans on one side of the pillar, Medieval on the other
> side. Like the organizers of the Celebrate History convention had decided
on
> that themselves. That is the impression I got while I was talking to them
> during set up Friday morning. And Saturday, before I got locked into
Fabius's
> game of First Cremona in the civil war of 69 ad.
Yes I know, Fabius told me that..hehehe :)
> But, yes. I believe that Fabius would be a good person to organize an
ancient
> fair. That Boundless Energy (WOW!). His knowledge, both as a history
buff and
> (especially) in the entertainment industry. When we were at dinner after
the
> game and a good bull session, I saw some of his planning/brainstorming.
But...
> I did not want to volunteer someone for a grueling job. I thought I would
let
> the man step forward himself. [Ericius wonders just what Sulla is poking
Fabius
> in the back with! ;-) ]
Funny since I am at work...hehehe. :) I am just stating the truth... :)
> Well, Fabius? Can you do it? LHC's big surviving gig is Southern Faire.
The
> contacts are down there. Eh?
LOL....talk of baiting the man...
L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul
|
