Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: Re: Law Committee
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:34:31 -0400 (EDT)

To N. Moravius Vado;

My dear sir:

I made no mistake in my suggestion. As the clerk-assistant to the
Senior Consul, one of my tasks as agreed to by the Senior Consul is to
make recommenddatons on various observations that I make from time to
time. These observations, are based on a varety of experiences and
diciplines. In your particular case I suggested that you were someone
to contact for the following reason:

--You are interested in NR;
--You have enough liesure to be active on the net;
--Your postings are well though out and polite;
--You make your points well;
--You can be both seriou and amusing
--You seem to get along well with the others on the net;
--You are respected by others on the net.

Now, with those above attributes I recommended your name to the Consul.
What does that commit you to--absolutely nothing. I think that you will
find as you move through the world that the above attributes will come
to mean more and more to you as attributes of the people that you wish
to be associated with. Further people who have these attributes are
usually able to pick up information and proceduers quickly, devote
themselves to thier commitments, and act well s a team-member.

It well may be that I am wrong in your case, but I don't think so.
Since it doesn't cost you anything, you may take it as a complimnt which
it is.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:11:31 -0400 (EDT)

Patricia Cassia is quite right in her review of considerations for a
historical event. However, add to the list that she presented: a clean
water supply, wood for camfires, and straw for sleeping. Emergency
Medical Service, as well as administration staff for admissons, tent /
pavillion layout, spectator boundaries.sanitary facilities, etc. on and
on.

We have a lot of people in Nova Roma who have some very good ideas, but
are filled up with commitments, and not very many who would willing or
able to pick up all these activities. These are ideas which have been
presented before but experience shows that there is a great amount of
effort in even a small event.

In order to put together something on this scale there would need to be
at minimum 15 -- 20 people within contact range of one another, willing
to form themselves into a committee and make commitments for such an
event. That is a pretty tall order.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Property
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:21:47 -0400 (EDT)

To Chrys:

I thought the last time that you talked about the property in
Mississippi that you no longer had possession of it, or that you werenot
sure. I am sorry if I did not unerstand that just right, but exactly
what did you have in mind in regard to the property? Do you have any
pictures of the property? Do you wish to mke some kind of offer for the
sale, use, donation, or exchange of the property?

In my humble opinion, my dear, these are things that you should
consider. It would be very hard for the Consuls to respond to any
suggestions without something on which to base their offers, should they
wish to do so.. As you know the treasury is not very hefty, so I most
respectfully ask you what is in your mind regarding said property??

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:56:16 EDT

In a message dated 10/6/99 12:00:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<<
No. Scaevola, in fact, hasn't been active on this list
for at least two weeks. Perhaps he is bogged down in
academic work (as I will be next week in grading
mid-terms).

>>
Thanks for the update.
QFM


Subject:	Re: Fabius religious views was Re: SALVETE!
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:56:20 EDT

In a message dated 10/6/99 11:26:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
<< And are you implying here that you believe that the gods do not approve
of a good Christian? Or a Jew? Or an atheist? I think that would be an
extremely unfortunate belief to express publicly (a pretty dubious opinion to
hold, anyway). >>
Well, now that is a pretty inflammatory statement hmm Vado? Is that what you
are looking for? To inflame the Christians here?
When I was a Catholic we were taught that the Jewish people killed Jesus
Christ.
It was nonsense when examined under the scrutiny of the historical record,
but that was what I was taught in parochial school. It was because of these
very falsehoods, and the result of two years of comparative religion study
while at St. Augustine High School that I made the decision of returning to
the Pantheon.
So the answer to your really insulting question is no I don't intend to
prosecute the Jews, or my former religion. Happy? You weren't with us when
we went through a lot soul searching about banning Christians from Nova Roma.
We decided that it would be like cutting of our noses to spite our faces.
We would lose much and gain little. Nevertheless if I was a devout Catholic
as I was 17 years ago, I could not be a member of NR. Simple. As much as I
love Rome, and all things Roman, I could not. "No man can serve two
masters."
I thought that this clarity would be an attribute for Roman service. After
all Rome's religion was the State's religion. But no, this does not matter.
At least to you Vado. But tell me, why are you so sure our humanistic gods
can co exist with such a religion. I'm still waiting with an open mind.
Thank you for giving me a chance to explain my view.
Vale
QFM


Subject:	Atencao- Campanha de Q. F. Maximus para Praetor Urbanus (em portugues)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:52:09 +0100

Traducao do discurso de campanha de Q. F. Maximus:

<<Salvete cives>>
Hoje os cidadaos comecam a votar eu gostaria de aproveitar esta oportunidade
para vos lembrar o porque de votar Q. Fabius Maximus para Praetor Urbanus.
I. Piedade. Eu sou pagao. Nao tenho qualquer conflito de religiao na minha
consciencia. Nao tenho outras escolhas a fazer. E embora algumas pessoas
digam que ser praticante da Religio Romana nao e condicao necessaria para
ser Praetor Urbanus, eu discordo. Nos queremos que o favor dos Deuses brilhe
no magistrado. Pelo meno eu quereria isso.
II. Dever. Eu antevi que Roma necessitaria the uma solida estrutura, e
depois de um caloroso discurso no Forum convenci L. Cornelius Sulla, e mais
tarde M. Minucius Audens a fazer rascunho de algumas leis que colmatassem as
necessidades de Nova Roma. Embora o Senado controlado por Cassius esteja a
discutir o assunto, isto e uma coisa que tem ainda de ser feita, e a
legislacao promulgada. Agora que temos um Senado mais aberto controlado por
Vedius, a oportunidade esta a vista.
Eu desejo trabalhar com o Praetor Marcus Mucius Scaevola na definicao de uma
estrutura de lei civil para Nova Roma (a nossa Tabua das XII regras). Marcus
Mucius ja fez um excelente comeco neste assunto tao vasto, mas que tem de
ser conduzido a compleicao.
III. Honra. Eu nunca desisti de fazer NR funcionar. Nunca recusei a minha
cidadania, independentemente da provocacao, e nunca deixei de orar aos
Deuses.
IV. Abilidade. Qualquer cidadao que necessitar de mim para o representar em
tribunal assim que tivermos a nossa lei civil, considere o seguinte: Eu sou
um excelente orador, enquanto frequentei a Escola Secundaria fui colocado na
categoria "masters" durante todos os tres periodos, falo e escrevo muito
bem. E no caso de ambos os Consuls estarem incapacitados de governar, eu
substitui-los-ia sem medos ou hesitacoes. Como estou nos meus 30s tardios, a
minha saude e estado geral sao excelentes.
V. Acessibilidade. Eu sou uma das pessoas mais acessiveis aqui em Nova Roma.
O meu trabalho mantem-me ligado a Internet durante a maior parte do dia, e
eu posso habitualmente responder a perguntas sobre Historia da Roma Antiga e
Historia de Nova Roma. Quando nao posso, sei no entanto onde a resposta pode
ser obtida.
VI. Riqueza. Se Nova Roma tiver problemas financeiros, eu vivo
suficientemente bem para temporariamente cobrir emergencias com os meus
fundos pessoais.
Obrigado pela vossa atencao.
Que Fortuna preserve a Republica.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus, Patricio, Paterfamilias, Curule Aedilis
Candidato a Praetor Urbanus.


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:44:36 -0500 (CDT)

True that any such event would take a great deal of time, effort and
money. That is why I suggested that we co-sponsor an event with at least
one other pagan organization in the far future or make arrangements to
make a large NR presence known at a particular event that is at that
time already arranged by another such group. Regionally there probably
are many such opportunities throughout the year that citizens would be
able to organize their attendance on.

I'm looking at it this way---- if 6 or 7 NR citizens in any given
province committed themselves to meet at just about any event---
including a ball game it would be very beneficial in bringing about a
better sense of community. The opportunity for a group of Nova Romans to
get together at a pagan event co-sponsored or whatever would not only be
a fun, interactve and social experience between ourselves and other
people, but could open a few doors for friendly relations futuristically
with other groups and Nova Roma. Anyone care to have some fun from Nova
Roma in real time?

Gaius Drusus Domitianus


Subject:	Re: Atencao- Campanha de Q. F. Maximus para Praetor Urbanus (em portugues)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:43:04 -0400 (EDT)

To; Graecus;

My Dear Graecus. I am very glad to have you back on the net, and I hope
your presentation went well. I am so pleased to see your excellent
translation on the net. Your efforts transcend this small contest, and
contribute and support strongly my own efforts in opening the door to
our brothers and sisters in far-away lands whose 1st language is not
English.

I thank you extremely for your time and effort involved in your
translation, and offer my appreciation in the name of those who need
such to participate in NR. It was a kind and generous thing to do, and
I thank you for the thought.

Most Sincerely;
Marcus Minucius Audens..

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	(2nd Attempt) Lictors, please contact the Pontifex Maximus.
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:51:51 EDT

Salvete,

I apologize for posting to the list again on this subject, but I am trying to
reach all the official Lictors as quickly as possible so that our current
Magistrates may be vested with Imperium.

Again, I have no Email addresses for the Lictors. Until all Lictors are
"contactable" the Pontificial College will be unable to organize the Comitia
Curiata, or call it to order. I again request that all Lictors contact me
personally. The appointed Lictors are as follows:

"7) The following individuals are hereby appointed as lictores curiata: Gaius
Iunius Germanus, T Labienus Fortunatus, Gaius Iunius Germanus, Gaius Drusus
Domitianus, Camillus Severus Antoninus, Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Decius
Iunius Palladius, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quinta Claudia Lucentia Aprica,
Lucius Fabius Metellus, Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia, Lucinia Iunia
Cypria, Marcus Martianus Gangalius, Marcus Minucius Audens, Junius Niger
Montis, Gaius Olivarius Mezentius, Paulus Olympius Gallus, Lucius Petronius
Gallus, Gaius Severus Marius Germanicus, Ambrosius Silvanus Virbius, Gnaeus
Tarquinius Caesar, Titia Irisia, Gaius Triumphius Cicero, Piperbaru Ullerius
Venator, Gaius Antonius Scaenicus, Gaius Augustus, Tiberius Caselius
Sidonius, Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus, Marcus Equitius Lentulus, and
Marcus Cornelius Felix."

Since my posting on 10/4 I have heard from 6 out of 30 Lictors:

1. Gaius Iunius Germanicus
2. T. Labienus Fortunatus
3. Lucius Cornelius Sulla
4. Marcus Minucius Audens
5. Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
6. Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator

Technically, 8 out of 30 Lictors are accounted for, since Decius Iunius
Palladius is off on his honeymoon, and Marcus Cornelius Felix is away from
his computer for another week or so.

I am hoping to hear from the other 22 Lictors ASAP. When you contact me I
will send some info your way, and record your address so that you may be
properly notified when the Comitia Curiata is convened. Thank you!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:03:51 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 1:21, James Mathews wrote:

> As you know the treasury is not very hefty, so I most
> respectfully ask you what is in your mind regarding said property??

The land is actually owned by various members of my family. I first
offered to sell it to NR then realized what the sum of the treasury
was, then figured I would donate it of rent it at something like one
dollar for 10 years (I like to think even NR can afford that much, if
not I was willing to rent it myself).

My portion is somewhere between 1.5 and 2 acres. Total it is
between 8 and 10 acres. It is in suburban Mississippi. Right now
no one seems horribly interested in it (to listen to my mom, who is
in charge of getting rid of this land tell it). I have known about this
land since I was 13 and didn't see any point in it then. Now I do. I
talked to Cassius about it a couple of times, but he kept
mentioning price. I'm not about making a profit off of NR (I have a
fair idea of how much money NR has ---- I'm not THAT crazy). I
just wanted to help.

I've been talking about this for a year or better and have either been
ignored or not taken seriously. I am willing to at least talk to my
mother about selling to a group for a nice cheap rate or trading with
some aunt or uncle for a corner piece and donating it.

That's about all I can think of for now. Sometimes I can come up
with something that might even be workable. NR would be on it's
own for tents, food, pottys and weather, but they would have Terra
Firma (?).

I still have to talk to my moms about it.

Pax,
Crys


Subject:	Re: Fabius religious views was Re: SALVETE!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:07:45 -0400 (EDT)

To; Q. Fabius Maximus;

Honored Candidate;

I have just read your response to Vado,and I compliment you on a
interesing view. I wonder if your could define your comment "NR Simple"
for me. Sometimes your historical backgrounds exceeds my own and your
comments are more specific than my training. Thank You.

I agree that "no man can serve two masters" but since both first and
second constitutions make no requirement to serve NR as a member of the
Roman Religio, and snce the drafters of those documents presumably did
so with the approval of the gods which watch over Rome, I see no
conflict or the "servng of two masters"

May I not admire and respect the great feat of architechture such as the
Golden Gate Bridge, and then continue on to my task as a Naval Designer?
I and several others in NR follow other religious paths than the Roman
Religio, but since we appreciate the Gods of Rome, respect the Gods of
Rome,, serve the Nova Roma that is honoring the Rome of the Roman Gods
and we have taken an oath to honor the Roman Gods why should there be a
clarity in the Roman Religio not present in other beliefs??, In that
respect, it is my belief that my personal religion makes no more
difference that my race or sex.to this institution, and if it does, I
should be very disappointed to find that out. I mean no impertinance by
my post, but I did have the above queston and comment for you.

Vale; Honored Canidate;
Respectfully
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Saturnalia Page
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:21:53 -0500

Salvete,

I am beginning work on the Saturnalia page. I would like to request
anyone with information on the history, traditions, recipes,
interesting stuff for Saturnalia please contact me privately (it's a
little early to start spouting Saturnalia on this list).

PS anyone wanting to share their Saturnalia with a group is, again,
welcome to join the Via Trames. I will once again be sharing the
Saturnalia almost every day. This year we plan on having 2
celebrations, one with the 2 older boys covering 2 weekends and
the other, scheduled Saturnalia.

Pax,
Crys


Subject:	Re: Atencao- Campanha de Q. F. Maximus para Praetor Urbanus (em portugues)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:21:33 +0100

Salve Marce Minuci Audens

I thank you very much for your kind words, and I want you to know that I
would translate your speech as well if no one had already done it before.
I think that this contest is a very tough one, for we have two kind, valid,
competent, dedicated people contending. On my part, I was a close witness of
the work performed by Q. Fabius Maximus, and he is the contender that I can
better evaluate. Others think otherwise. I admit... It's a tough decision to
take.

Vale amice

Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:20:39 -0400 (EDT)

To; Domitianus;

I certainly agree with your thoughts on the subject, and now is the time
to begin to collect information regarding the Ancient Faires in the
areas / provinces of NR. I am fairly familiar with Rev War / Civil War
re-enactments schedules set-ups and annual schedule s and other such,
but where does one start in the search for planned Ancent Faires?? I
would suppose that SCA would be resource, but the SCA unit in y area
has definately indicated that they wish nothing to do with me as a Roman
(Gee, I hope it the Roman part they object to-Grin). So where are some
paces, people organizations to contact?

Keeping in mind that a successful event usually requires 10--14 months
of preparation prior to the event, we should precede our anticipated
event by atleast that much in gathering information and interested
people into loose committees to discuss this possibility and what we
will be able to accomplish.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:52 -0400 (EDT)

To Chrys;

I thank you for the clarification, and for being up front about the
whole idea. One of the problems that I see of course is to satisfy your
needs as well as the needs of NR, and to do so in a way that it helps
all of us.

I am not a expert on land law,but I do know that land is taxed, and any
improvements will have to be protected from vandalism. There may be
zoning laws and regulations that bear upon the use of the land. An
optin is o sell the land and use the prceeds to purchase land in a more
populated NR area. Another option would be to lease the land for a
dollar a year. As merullus poited out to me sometime ago, in order to
build,improve, or even provide sanitary facilities would require a great
deal odf labor or significant expense, so that aquisition of any land
would have to be a long term and an inexpensive situation and I am sure
that you realize that as ell as I.

I thank you for your kind thoughts, and I think that I may also thank
you in Cassius' name as well. Talk with your mother about such a
possibility or possibilitiesand get back to me. Anything done about
gtting land for NR will have to be put before the citizens of NR
initially anyway to get a feel for thier desires and contributions, and
if appropriate I should think that a proposal should be submitted to the
Consuls, Since we are a long way from that, perhaps we may make a
simple start at consideration.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:02:37 -0500

Salve dearest Audens,

What if I simply donated the money I received from the sale of the
land to NR? That suddenly sounds simpler <G>. Besides,
Mississippi isn't the choicest place *I* can think of <G>.

Crys


Subject:	Election
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:01:25 -0400 (EDT)

To; Graecus;

I thank you for your your most kind offer of translation, but that has
been taken care of by another friend of mine before you returned to NR.
I honor your offer however, and your comments regarding this campaign
are much appreciated.

I fully understand what I am up against in any contest with Q. Fabius
Maximus. He is a strongly motivated gentleman whose has a set of
enviable skills and detailed knowledge, and you are certainly the best
judge of your support.

If, however, you have some translation time perhaps you would be willing
to translate something from out internet correspondance or from the
website for the benefit of the non-English speaking members of NR. You
would be the best judge of the sutability of such a piece, and submitted
to myself and to Q. Fabius for approval to insure no political jobbery,
it would be kind of a gift from us to non-English speaking peoples to
further open the door that we have unlocked.

Just a thought my friend, and subject of course to the approval of the
other honored Candidate.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Law Committee
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT)

--- "M. Pap--------s Justus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197166104009127132130232203026129208071" >pap--------s@--------</a> wrote:
>
> That said, for the face to face bit, I don't see why
> a chat room couldn't
> be used, with voter codes subsequently being used
> for verdicts ...
>

Yes, I made that suggestion, along with many more
designed to get around this problem.

L. Licinius Varro Murena


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT)

To Chrys;

Well, you are right in the respect that it would be the easiest, in
addition if you feel strongly about having suitable land at some time in
the future, you might want to consider donating itwith the proviso that
it only be used for thee purchase of land or as a principle to earn
money for the purchase of land. I am sure that the Consuls / Praetors
would be able to provide you with an agreement that wuld satisfy you and
NR as well.

One of the things also that NR should look into at some later date is
having real property donated to the Organization with the proviso that
the donators may continue to live on the land until they pass away and
then te land reverts to NR ownership. We probably could not handle the
taxes on something like this at this time, but it is an ideafor the
future..

Comments anyone???

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:37:11 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 14:24, James Mathews wrote:

> Well, you are right in the respect that it would be the easiest, in
> addition if you feel strongly about having suitable land at some time in
> the future, you might want to consider donating itwith the proviso that it
> only be used for thee purchase of land or as a principle to earn money for
> the purchase of land. I am sure that the Consuls / Praetors would be able
> to provide you with an agreement that wuld satisfy you and NR as well.
>

That could work. I'll see how much we get for the property and
then see if some sort of donation could be worked out. I owe NR a
great deal. It would be nice if I could contribute something that
everyone would be interested in.

Pax,
Crys


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:59:21 -0400 (EDT)

L. Licinius Varro Mureno wrote:

"Shouldn't the magisstrates be doing something to promote various ways
of raising revenuea instead of proposing various laws designed to milk
the plebians of thier hard-earned denarii"

I am sorry that you have the opinion that the magistrates are "milking"
anone. There have been a goodly number of citizens in NR who have
agreed that any organization with aims such as ours should assess the
membership in some way to ensure a way to pay our debts and invest for
the future. The proposal tabled before the Senate was created by three
gentlemen who were responding to the desires of those many members.
Since that time more people have embraced that belief because of the
difficulty (for a variety of reasons) to move the Macellum forward to
provide the funds needed. I know of no other organization in my
experience that does not require registration fees of some kind, and we
are not talking a great deal of money here. Many in NR have donated
money to the organization, but I do not believe it is fair to rely upon
that income for the future.

You have provided some good ideas, about possible avenues to persue.
Perhaps I might suggest that you choose one of those avenues and pursue
it to it's logical end. I realize that you are very busy and much
committed , but so am I and almost everyone else in NR who is in pursuit
of an education, career, family, public service, etc.

I do not disagree that contacting other businesses is a good idea, but
there are several aspects of that effort.. Just one is that the NR
Membership wants a say about which businesses are placed into the
Macaellum There are others. This is not an easy task. A budget has
been drawn up, as well as a proposal for taxes. both will be reviewed by
the Consuls and submitted to a vote at the Senate's approval. No action
wll be forthcoming until the membership has it's say, and as I have
noted before, I have a faith that the membership will choose wisely,
which is why I labor for NR.

Proudly;
Marcus Minucious Audens
Candidate For Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:06:03 -0400 (EDT)

To Chrys;

I know the feeling. That's great, so until further developments let us
leave the situation at that point. If you have ad questions that you
think I can answer i would be happy to give it a whirl or find someone
who can. Thank you for your patience in discussing this with me, and it
is my hope that this discussion will lead to something very satisfying
for both yourself and for NR.

Marcus Minucus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:14:39 -0700

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> L. Licinius Varro Mureno wrote:
>
> "Shouldn't the magisstrates be doing something to promote various ways
> of raising revenuea instead of proposing various laws designed to milk
> the plebians of thier hard-earned denarii"

Uh...would you mind to elaborate on this? I would like to know exactly
where you are going with this. So far every piece of legislation that has
been up to the Comitia Centuriata has, to this date, has dealt with
Rogartore Issues, Paterfamilias issue, the Oath...and one other issue that I
cannot recall at the moment..the point being...is that there has not been a
vote that has affected any revenue or finance. Thus your position that the
magistrates are "milking" anyone....let alone the Plebs is very flawed.

Now, just to set your mind at easy....the only financial item that will be
up for debate in the Senate is the budget...but that can hardly be called
"milking." So I do hope you will get your facts straight before you start
accusing your duly elected Magistrates in some sort of "milking" (as you
call it) atmosphere.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul


Subject:	Laws and Sausages (was Law Committee)
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:15:58 PDT

Salve, mi Audens!

Well, thank you for the compliment which, if it is deserved according to the
criteria you listed, is one to which at least two dozen other citizens I can
think of are no less entitled. I was SURE you meant Varro, not Vado, and I
didn't want to make a bigger fool of myself by accepting a compliment which
might have been intended for another. I am honoured, though, to be
considered worth nominating for the Law Committee - even if because I
believe that it should include a citizen or two who has no specialist legal
knowledge and who therefore can only look at a proposed law and discuss
whether it would help the average citizen lead a fuller, happier life in
Nova Roma (once they've insisted it be written in language they can
understand)... and if it doesn't promise to do that, ask: what good would it
be? Everyone who reads this List knows what Vado thinks about laws and
sausages: you can't be too careful when you're making them ;-).

But frankly, mi amice, I don't think Vado would last long on such a
committee. I'm a Legate and a researcher already, and I haven't got your
stamina for things I'm not passionate about (as, in my case, the Religio and
NR membership, food and drink). Now a committee to draft some official
prayers... I'd be right up for that! Thanks again for the good words,
though.

Semper vale,

Vado.

>To N. Moravius Vado;
>
>My dear sir:
>
>I made no mistake in my suggestion. As the clerk-assistant to the
>Senior Consul, one of my tasks as agreed to by the Senior Consul is to
>make recommenddatons on various observations that I make from time to
>time. These observations, are based on a varety of experiences and
>diciplines. In your particular case I suggested that you were someone
>to contact for the following reason:
>
>--You are interested in NR;
>--You have enough liesure to be active on the net;
>--Your postings are well though out and polite;
>--You make your points well;
>--You can be both seriou and amusing
>--You seem to get along well with the others on the net;
>--You are respected by others on the net.
>
>Now, with those above attributes I recommended your name to the Consul.
>What does that commit you to--absolutely nothing. I think that you will
>find as you move through the world that the above attributes will come
>to mean more and more to you as attributes of the people that you wish
>to be associated with. Further people who have these attributes are
>usually able to pick up information and proceduers quickly, devote
>themselves to thier commitments, and act well s a team-member.
>
>It well may be that I am wrong in your case, but I don't think so.
>Since it doesn't cost you anything, you may take it as a complimnt which
>it is.
>
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Survey
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:16:45 -0400 (EDT)

Sulla;

Unfortunately my friend I did not recieve such. Perhaps I could take a
look at a copy?

Respectfully;
Marcus minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Laws and Sausages (was Law Committee)
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" n_moravius@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:17:55 PDT


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:26:33 -0500 (CDT)

To Chrys and any other landholders:

I just wanted to point out that even if land owned is inconveniently far
away from a person and that individual would like to sell it, I heard
that Century 21 I believe offers an even trade on property values in
different parts of the country. I don't know much about it beyond that
but it's a possibility. If you or anyone else still felt like making a
donation of land you might want it somewhere more conveniently close to
your own location to enjoy if that's possible.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus


Subject:	Re: Laws and Sausages (was Law Committee)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:42:45 -0400 (EDT)

To Vado;

It was my pleasure sir, and all is not lost. As I indicated one of my
tasks is to probvide the Consul with ideas. It is his decision to
pursue them or not and to tell me to do so within his bounds. However,
having aleady recommended your name for the reasons cited, I know ask
respectfully for your recommendations in your turn. I find that most
people are very careful in recommending people to others when they and
thier judgement is at stake. A very good way I thik to identify some
good people.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:49:53 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 14:26, Dean Troy wrote:

> To Chrys and any other landholders:
>
> I just wanted to point out that even if land owned is inconveniently far
> away from a person and that individual would like to sell it, I heard that
> Century 21 I believe offers an even trade on property values in different
> parts of the country. I don't know much about it beyond that but it's a
> possibility. If you or anyone else still felt like making a donation of
> land you might want it somewhere more conveniently close to your own
> location to enjoy if that's possible.
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus

<G> I've seen too many movies to ever want to live in Mississippi
<G>. Heck, I may never set eyes on my own property <G>.

Crys


Subject:	My name <G>
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:53:40 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 14:26, Dean Troy wrote:

> Chrys

It fascinates me to see people persist in spelling my name with the
"h". I spell my name Crystal and use Crys, but the name on my
birth certificate is actually spelled with the "h". I just find that so
cool that some people just seem to know these things <G>.

Chrystal Meaker (or so it's spelled on my birth certificate <G>)


Subject:	Re: Fabius religious views was Re: SALVETE!
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:26:53 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 10/7/99 3:56:32 AM E--------rn D--------ght Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

<< When I was a Catholic we were taught that the Jewish people killed Jesus
Christ. >>

Ohhhhh I hate to see statements like that. You must have gone to an "odd"
Catholic school I'm afraid. Nowhere in Catholic beliefs have they confused
the Romans with the Jews per se. Maybe you are thinking of the whole Barabus
thing? Where the *crowd turned against Jesus*? That's about the only
possible connection to blaming the Jews for the crucifixion that I can think
of off hand.

I am no longer Catholic myself, but do teach in a Catholic school and the
current catechism does not reflect such erroneous statements anywhere.

Sorry ya had such poor teachers. :(

Serena


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:12:46 EDT

In a message dated 10/6/99 12:23:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<< Shouldn't the
magistrates be doing something to promote various ways
of raising revenues, instead of proposing various laws
designed to milk the plebeians of their hard-won
denarii? >>

Salvete,

For the most part, so far it's the plebeians who have been milking the
magistrates for *their* hard earned denarii.

I say that really in jest, since it isn't like anyone has been donating
against their will or anything. But it does bring up a point; he vast
majority of the money that Nova Roma has been running on since its founding
has been donated by magistrates. There have certainly been some occasional
much appreciated Citizen donations, of course. Yet the ratio has been uneven
by about six to one. (Not too surprising I guess ... it's not unreasonable
that folks who are very involved are the most likely to be concerned with
stable finances.)

If you prefer that Nova Roma raise it's funds from commerce rather than
taxation, I can only recommend becoming *actively* involved with commerce.
The magistrates of Nova Roma have assigned jobs already ... and they catch
hell whenever those jobs go undone. It's unreasonable to expect that the
magistrates will suddenly become salespeople too, so that the Citizens may be
saved from the absolute horror of a $15.00 per year membership fee.

Bringing up suggestions on the list about Nova Roma commerce is not the same
thing as being actively involved. It's like saying: "Here's an idea, now
somebody should go do it for me so that I won't have to."

What are some of the ways a Citizen can be actively involved in Nova Roman
commerce so that there'll be enough funds coming in regularly so that taxes
could be avoided?

1. Join the Ordo Equester - Start a Roman business, and get your info up in
the Macellum. Some needed businesses: costumers, statue makers/pottery
makers, writers, artists, jewelry makers, and much more. You can help Nova
Roma stay afloat, and make a profit besides.

2. Volunteer to work on NR commercial projects. A few ideas have come up here
on the list, including expanding Nova Roma's bookstore, and improving the
Macellum pages. The reasons why such things haven't been done isn't because
no-one has thought of it... it's because the folks already working on behalf
of NR are too busy to DO it.

3. Subscribe to "The Eagle". Since the subscription rate has been bumped from
a money losing rate of $5.00 per year to $12.00, (which provides at least a
little profit) the newsletter could be a help to Nova Roma. Unfortunately,
only 30 out of 300 plus Citizens subscribe.

4. Assist in providing Nova Roma with products to offer. Don't want to run
your own Roman business? Perhaps you can help find products that NR can
offer. Is there a company out there that you think would like to make an
arrangement with NR? Know where to get some of the produces that NR could
sell, such as flags or coinage? Don't expect the magistrates put aside other
work to take care of this kind of business. Making a phone call or two, or
looking into products yourself probably will mean the difference between what
you want getting done NOW, or "sometime in the future".

5. Donate money. Better a payment that's done voluntarily, rather than making
people ask you for funding. It's really an investment in the future of Nova
Roma. Right now we're in a difficult spot ... there have been posts to the
list that people don't want to donate or be taxed because they're "not being
provided with enough". Unfortunately, the infrastructure of things offered in
Nova Roma isn't going to grow if there's no funding for improvements.
Catch-22! :P

If anyone is looking for further ideas, please contact me personally. I've
got a *boatload* of projects I haven't been able to get to, simply from lack
of time. Pontificial and Senatorial duties come first, after all.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Fwd: Security alert
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:40:56 -0700 (PDT)

This is x-posted from Mediev-L for anyone who might be
interested.

--- Robert Hel--------chs <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=194233250003038091033082" >rob@--------</a> wrote:
>
> I just received an interesting (and potentially
> dangerous) spam. It
> read "I almost bust a gutt [sic] laughing," and had
> a URL. When I
> followed the URL, I got a dialog that was designed
> to look like it came
> from my ISP, asking to confirm my user name and
> password. Obviously,
> this clown is collected e-mail accounts, presumably
> for nefarious
> purposes.
>
> I forwarded the message to his ISP, not that it will
> do any good; it was
> one of those free e-mail services, and he no doubt
> goes from one to
> another as they get shut down.
>
> The moral of the story is, never give out your user
> name and password
> except when you are logging in to your ISP. If you
> are asked, no matter
> how legitimate the request may seem, do not give the
> information. If
> you have any doubt, contact your ISP first.
>
> Charlemagne was crowned emperor at Rome in 800.
> (See, this is a
> medieval post!)
>
> Rob
> --
>
___________________________________________________________
> Robert Helmerichs: <a href="http://www1.minn.net/~rob" target="_top" >http://www1.minn.net/~rob</a>
> The Haskins Society: <a href="http://www.haskins.cornell.edu" target="_top" >http://www.haskins.cornell.edu</a>
> Norman Bibliography:
> <a href="http://www1.minn.net/~rob/Normandy" target="_top" >http://www1.minn.net/~rob/Normandy</a>
> The Planctus for William Longsword:
> <a href="http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/Planctus" target="_top" >http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/Planctus</a>
>
>
>


Subject:	Q. Fabius for Praetor
From:	pallasathene@--------
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:57:39 -0400 (EDT)

In the spirit of the election season, and seeing that endorsement is not frowned upon by most of you, I would like to present my preference for the office of Praetor as Q. Fabius Maximus.

Now, I�m sure the majority of you are not surprised knowing that Q. Fabius Maximus and I are, yes, I�ll admit it, close friends. But, my decision was not as cut and dry as you might think.

So, it comes down to not who know more dates, geography and names, but who can substitute a Consul when needed (Gods forbid). The position needs someone who can take the reins and get things done, for lack of a better phrase. And I have been an onlooker of Q. Fabius� numerous exploits in the name of Nova Roma. He is responsible for the development of many entertainment and educational events, both for NR and his local community. These include, The Social Wars (an online RPG), Celebrate History (large event in CA to promote history education), and the Public Games in honor of the Gods. There is almost never a time when he is not sacrificing his personal life and time for the betterment of Nova Roma. And it is this that I think is a most vital quality.

Another one of Q. Fabius� various qualities is his knowledge of our Constitution. He is quite fluent in our laws and protocols, and therefore can administer Justice, the Praetor�s first and foremost responsibility. He is the person I go to when I have a question concerning these matters, not only because he knows the answer, but because he is very accessible and can answer my question right then and there. Having AOL allows him to be easily approached and thorough.

In closing, I did not run straight to the Cistern to cast my vote for this very important office. It took days to weigh out the pros and cons. And I am certain in my decision to vote for Q. Fabius as Praetor of Rome. My role as a citizen sees his dedication, comprehension of our government, and convenience overcomes my role as a friend.

Thank you for your time, Quirites.

Studiose,

Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Propraetor SE USA Provincia
Senator
Curator Araneae

----------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject:	Re: Fabius religious views was Re: SALVETE!
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:07:20 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/99 1:27:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=173075066165082194184241189100114253071048139" >JusticeCMO@--------</--------; writes:

<< Ohhhhh I hate to see statements like that. You must have gone to an "odd"
Catholic school I'm afraid. Nowhere in Catholic beliefs have they confused
the Romans with the Jews per se >>
Well blame Sister Mary Finbar. A Nun from the old sod.
Many old time Catholics believed that fact. My parents, good German
Catholics both, believed it to be true.
We know now that the execution was a political football that was booted back
and forth between the Jewish high religious council and the ruling minor
dignitaries. But back then in the 30-40s who was analyzing history? If it
was good enough for the parents its good enough for us kids, was the
prevailing attitude, and one my school taught me. BTW I went to very good
Catholic schools. They just had a centralist view of one true religion.
Theirs. I started my classical education at Catholic schools.

Good to see that Catholics have changed their view. However in light of the
newly revealed dealings of the Vatican with the Axis during War deuce, I
wonder how much of this is PC?
Q. Fabius
Still a Pagan


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:13:34 EDT

L. Licinius Varro Mureno wrote:
> > "Shouldn't the magisstrates be doing something to promote various ways
of raising revenuea instead of proposing various laws designed to milk
the plebians of thier hard-earned denarii" >>
I presume that this is a humorous comment. If so, shouldn't it be posted at
the crossroads not one the one list?
Q. Fabius Maximus.


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:15:13 -0700 (PDT)

--- James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
>
> Perhaps I might suggest that you choose one of those
> avenues and pursue
> it to it's logical end. I realize that you are very
> busy and much
> committed , but so am I and almost everyone else in
> NR who is in pursuit
> of an education, career, family, public service,
> etc.
>

Ah, but 1) I am only a lowly plebeian, newly emigrated
to Roma from my tiny family farm;
2) We lowly plebeians elect magistrates to take care
of things like this. Don't the magistrates, for
example, contact other groups and establish foreign
relations? Why aren't they out seeking groups with
which to conclude treaties of commercium? Why aren't
the magistrates trying to come up with innovative
ideas to fund our Republic, instead of leaving it to
newly-emigrated and lowly plebeians?

L. Licinius Varro Murena


Subject:	Re: Saturnalia Page
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:17:09 EDT

In a message ----------------/7/99 6:15:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
writes:

<< PS anyone wanting to share their Saturnalia with a group is, again,
welcome to join the Via Trames. I will once again be sharing the
Saturnalia almost every day. This year we plan on having 2
celebrations, one with the 2 older boys covering 2 weekends and
the other, scheduled Saturnalia. >>
Salvete.
On a Friday last Saturnalia, we let the secretaries run the company, while
management were the secretaries. It was great fun. We plan to do it again
this year.
Valete
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:17:24 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/99 6:20:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< I would suppose that SCA would be resource, but the SCA unit in y area
has definately indicated that they wish nothing to do with me as a Roman
(Gee, I hope it the Roman part they object to-Grin). So where are some
paces, people organizations to contact?>>
The Ninth Hispania, Sean's organization, is a member of the Kalifian chapter
of the SCA. I was a Byzantine during my membership. The San Diego chapter
was always more forgiving I guess.

>>Keeping in mind that a successful event usually requires 10--14 months
of preparation prior to the event, we should precede our anticipated
event by atleast that much in gathering information and interested
people into loose committees to discuss this possibility and what we
will be able to accomplish. >>
I still think that a union at Caesar Place in Vegas is the way to go here.
But in LA we have the Ren Fair, forgetting old the English spelling. I used
to know the organizers. However since Disney has taken over management, so
they might not have as much pull as the they used to have.

If we were to do this, it would be something like the Fort Tejon invitational
that is issued every year at Fort Tejon, CA. ACW reenactors from all over the
US show up for a two day event. This includes living history, were we
educate the public about life at the time of the Civil War, drill demos where
we show how a regiment is drilled and then put the regiment through it's
paces. The artillery is profiled, with explanations of how the pieces
worked, then artillery drill demonstrated. In the afternoon of both days,
skirmishes are fought, usually two a day. In between those more living
history is conducted.

So to sum up:
First we would have to find an area central to the greatest number of
legiones in the US. (Sorry NR magistrates, they are the biggest draw.)
Second we would have to get a firm commitment from the units to attend.
Third. A program would have to drawn up.
Fourth. Now with commitments in place and a program devised a budget must be
determined. (Including event insurance, unless the site owners already have
it in place.)
Fifth. Contracts with the site owners must be finalized. (Very important)
Sixth. Contracts signed, advertising begins
Seventh. PR takes place. (This is usually glad-handing the local rags, and
meeting with a couple of TV stations. Important to get the local media on
your side.)
Eighth. Event occurs. This includes site prep, the move in, the event, then
the cleanup.
Ninth. Analyze the results. Should there be another? If so start planning
now.
As you can tell I have done these before. I have had may share of failures
and successes. Planning is the key.
Valete
Q. Fabius


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:	JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:34:04 -0700 (PDT)

Well, since everyone agrees it is a good idea, might
not the Consuls send out feelers to other
re-enactor/pagan groups to see if they too might be
interested for an event held next summer? I know there
are various listservs for regional pagan
groups--perhaps a message might be sent to these to
gauge possible interest. I know that last month
various California pagans got together for picnics,
one near SF, the other near LA. Support from these
groups will also prove crucial in the beginning, even
if they only commit to attending.

BTW, what about the various provinciae holding monthly
(or bimonthly for that matter) picnics (even if this
means at somebody's house) as a way of building
community?

Vale.
L. Licinius Varro Murena

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:
> In a message dated 10/7/99 6:20:53 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:
>
> << I would suppose that SCA would be resource,
> but the SCA unit in y area
> has definately indicated that they wish nothing to
> do with me as a Roman
> (Gee, I hope it the Roman part they object
> to-Grin). So where are some
> paces, people organizations to contact?>>
> The Ninth Hispania, Sean's organization, is a member
> of the Kalifian chapter
> of the SCA. I was a Byzantine during my membership.
> The San Diego chapter
> was always more forgiving I guess.
>
> >>Keeping in mind that a successful event usually
> requires 10--14 months
> of preparation prior to the event, we should
> precede our anticipated
> event by atleast that much in gathering information
> and interested
> people into loose committees to discuss this
> possibility and what we
> will be able to accomplish. >>
> I still think that a union at Caesar Place in Vegas
> is the way to go here.
> But in LA we have the Ren Fair, forgetting old the
> English spelling. I used
> to know the organizers. However since Disney has
> taken over management, so
> they might not have as much pull as the they used to
> have.
>
> If we were to do this, it would be something like
> the Fort Tejon invitational
> that is issued every year at Fort Tejon, CA. ACW
> reenactors from all over the
> US show up for a two day event. This includes
> living history, were we
> educate the public about life at the time of the
> Civil War, drill demos where
> we show how a regiment is drilled and then put the
> regiment through it's
> paces. The artillery is profiled, with explanations
> of how the pieces
> worked, then artillery drill demonstrated. In the
> afternoon of both days,
> skirmishes are fought, usually two a day. In
> between those more living
> history is conducted.
>
> So to sum up:
> First we would have to find an area central to the
> greatest number of
> legiones in the US. (Sorry NR magistrates, they are
> the biggest draw.)
> Second we would have to get a firm commitment from
> the units to attend.
> Third. A program would have to drawn up.
> Fourth. Now with commitments in place and a program
> devised a budget must be
> determined. (Including event insurance, unless the
> site owners already have
> it in place.)
> Fifth. Contracts with the site owners must be
> finalized. (Very important)
> Sixth. Contracts signed, advertising begins
> Seventh. PR takes place. (This is usually
> glad-handing the local rags, and
> meeting with a couple of TV stations. Important to
> get the local media on
> your side.)
> Eighth. Event occurs. This includes site prep, the
> move in, the event, then
> the cleanup.
> Ninth. Analyze the results. Should there be
> another? If so start planning
> now.
> As you can tell I have done these before. I have
> had may share of failures
> and successes. Planning is the key.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius
>
<HR>

>


Subject:	Re: picnics was Ancient Faire
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:39:27 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/99 3:33:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<< BTW, what about the various provinciae holding monthly
(or bimonthly for that matter) picnics (even if this
means at somebody's house) as a way of building
community? >>
I hold picnics for my Gens. So far only four members have showed but we can
hope things will get better.
Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	Picnics
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:48:35 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 15:34, JSA wrote:

>
> BTW, what about the various provinciae holding monthly
> (or bimonthly for that matter) picnics (even if this
> means at somebody's house) as a way of building
> community?
>
> Vale.
> L. Licinius Varro Murena

Which reminds me ....

Beginning Jan 1st (Sat) 2000 Don and I will be having monthly
BBQ's, picnics, call it what you will. If you live in Texas or will be
in Texas on the first Saturday of any month of the year, you are
welcome. These are not Roman or NR gatherings. They are
mostly aimed at Don's co-workers, but we had a great time in Ft.
Worth and would hope at least the Texas NR might wander down
here sometime.

Pax,
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Materna


Subject:	Fwd: Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:47:19 -0400 (EDT)

L. Lionius Varro Murena;

The below exchange is the driving force behind this response. I believe
that Casius has explained about the Magistrates Tasks and the work that
they are doing, so I will not address that here.

The ideas of all Nova Romans are valuable , not just a select few older
and more experienced people. If you have been following my posts
recently you know that I am the last person to put someone down because
of thier new membership or questions in regard to NR.

You seem to have a hostile ring in your messages as though the
Magistrates were being not quite honest. I have no knowledge of such a
problem. There certainly has not beena lot of smooth communication in
Nova Roma in the last few months, but casting doubts on elected /
appointed magistrates without strong evidence won't do much either for
you or for NR. Nobody here is full ltime as everone woks in some area.
Even myself as a retired person work at a variety of public service
projects for the benefit on my commuity and my historical studies /
interests.

Cassius has explained in detail why your ideas are welcome, and your
follow up on your ideas are even more so. I am keeping a record of some
of the more workable ideas from this list for the purpose of the
campaign. After the campaign is over, I will either see what can be
done with them, or try to have someone look into them for me. Short of
doing your suggestions for you immediately, I cannot think of anything
further that I can offer since I am involved in a campaign whose other
candidate is a very talented gentleman..

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate for Praetor.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

From: JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>

--- James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------e:
>
> Perhaps I might suggest that you choose one of those
> avenues and pursue
> it to it's logical end. I realize that you are very
> busy and much
> committed , but so am I and almost everyone else in
> NR who is in pursuit
> of an education, career, family, public service,
> etc.
>

Ah, but 1) I am only a lowly plebeian, newly emigrated
to Roma from my tiny family farm;
2) We lowly plebeians elect magistrates to take care
of things like this. Don't the magistrates, for
example, contact other groups and establish foreign
relations? Why aren't they out seeking groups with
which to conclude treaties of commercium? Why aren't
the magistrates trying to come up with innovative
ideas to fund our Republic, instead of leaving it to
newly-emigrated and lowly plebeians?

L. Licinius Varro Murena


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:54:16 -0700

> >
> > Perhaps I might suggest that you choose one of those
> > avenues and pursue
> > it to it's logical end. I realize that you are very
> > busy and much
> > committed , but so am I and almost everyone else in
> > NR who is in pursuit
> > of an education, career, family, public service,
> > etc.
> >
>
> Ah, but 1) I am only a lowly plebeian, newly emigrated
> to Roma from my tiny family farm;
> 2) We lowly plebeians elect magistrates to take care
> of things like this. Don't the magistrates, for
> example, contact other groups and establish foreign
> relations? Why aren't they out seeking groups with
> which to conclude treaties of commercium? Why aren't
> the magistrates trying to come up with innovative
> ideas to fund our Republic, instead of leaving it to
> newly-emigrated and lowly plebeians?

Well...foreign relations has a tradition that was forumalted during the
Consulship of Flavius Vedius Germancius and Marcus Cassius ....which dealt
with other micronations. Basically it can be summarized that we will
establish a treaty with a micronation who has a serious desire to be a
soverignty project, like Nova Roma. That tradition is still the prevailing
tradition within Nova Roma. My Consular colleague and I, maintian that
role.

Now in regards to the Marcellum...the Censors are the principle magistrates
involved in that process. Not the Plebians. Now your comment about the
Lowly plebs is still uncalled for, again. Magistrates are looking into
this. Obviously you have failed to respond to my posts...but have focused
with the conciliatory Audens. Well...let me just say that the Magistrates
are responsible for other facets of Nova Roma....and none of us are
ignoreing the fiscal side of Nova Roma...as I stated on my post the budget
is going to be presented to the Senate, for debate, after the Comitia
Centuriata is finished.

Everyone who is a citizen of Nova Roma has an equal stake in the success of
this micronation. It is this primary reason why I am for the implementation
of Taxes/Dues/or whatever you want to call it. When Q. Fabius Maximius
approached me with his idea to promulgate the tax legislation he did not
need to convince me very far that I should support it. As Praetor Urbanus,
I presented it to the Senate, earlier this year. Dues, are something to
give each citizen a stakehold in an organization that they are apart of.
Marcus Cassius, who to his honor, paid many of the expenses that Nova Roma
incurred should not be burdened, but instead the entire citizen body should
bear this burden. Nova Roma is composed of many cives who in the past
contributed. But this is something that requires every civies to
pay....However, by making this a Pleb issue you are using your ability to be
a demogague by conviently avoiding some other statements. First of which is
that every civie, whether Pleb or Patrician would pay. Secondly, if the lex
is adopted that Q. Fabius, Audens and myself wrote, then there will be
execptions. Third, we are talking a very small amount of money...Most
likely the equilivant of 2 Movie tickets.... or 1 large Pizza. We all as
citizens have a vested interest in Nova Roma. Why criticize something that
would be equally distributed to all civies?

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

> L. Licinius Varro Murena
> >


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	JSA <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:22:16 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:
> L. Licinius Varro Mureno wrote:
> > > "Shouldn't the magisstrates be doing something
> to promote various ways
> of raising revenuea instead of proposing various
> laws designed to milk
> the plebians of thier hard-earned denarii" >>
> I presume that this is a humorous comment. If so,
> shouldn't it be posted at
> the crossroads not one the one list?
> Q. Fabius Maximus.
>

Except it wasn't intended to be humorous.

L. Licinius Varro Murena


Subject:	Re: Rome and the SCA
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:30:33 -0400 (EDT)

I have spoken with an SCA representative since I wrote my last
observation about the SCA. He informs me that there is no limit to how
far back you can go in SCA, and many people do Roman Re-enacting. He
has apparently spoken to the group that refused my application.

They were very nice people and were e to get off the ground in planning
an event, then they may well be of valu to NR.

I like the ideas of picnics for your gens, and think it certainly an
effort worth making. Now all I have to do is figure how to get my Gens
members over here from Slovakia for a picnic (Grin!!!)

The procedures for setting up and event that Q.Fabius Maximus has
outlined are accurate and if anything probably mercifully brief. There
are little hundreds of things to see to check on and deal with before,
during and after the event. I have only been involved in two sch
events, both of which were considered successes. In both it was an
outstanding, hard-working, detail-pursuing staff that made it all come
out right.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:19:43 -0500

On 7 Oct 99, at 16:22, JSA wrote:

>
> Except it wasn't intended to be humorous.
>
> L. Licinius Varro Murena

Sheesh, humorous or no, bring it to the Via Trames. We need
your kind of ... ummmm .. invaluable opinion. <G>

Crys (like dat style)


Subject:	Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:03:27 EDT

In a message dated 10/7/99 6:14:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<< Ah, but 1) I am only a lowly plebeian, newly emigrated
to Roma from my tiny family farm;

Cassius:
Then why on earth aren't you vending turnips in the Macellum? You're missing
out on a golden opportunity to be vaulted right into the Ordo Equester! ;)

> 2) We lowly plebeians elect magistrates to take care
of things like this. Don't the magistrates, for
example, contact other groups and establish foreign
relations?

Cassius:
Actually, no. Nova Roma has not been working much to establish foreign
relations with other Micronations. This is because most of the micronations
we've contacted have been a combination of play acting and political theory
experiment only... claiming thousands of nonexistant Citizens, long invented
histories of wars and the like. We DO have diplomatic relations with the
nation of Corvinia, who's leader is quite pro Roman and who has established a
micronation which is Roman-friendly. We've also been hearing from the nation
of Nova Arcadia which, which has serious leanings. Several other
micronations have been gently declined since we don't want a lot of "fantasy"
connections harming our legitimate international claim of attempting to
manifest a specific and valid historical culture.

>Why aren't they out seeking groups with
which to conclude treaties of commercium? Why aren't
the magistrates trying to come up with innovative
ideas to fund our Republic, instead of leaving it to
newly-emigrated and lowly plebeians?

Cassius:
Since you're a new emigrant, these are certainly valid enough questions! :)

Basically, Nova Roma has too much to do, and too few people to do it. Our
elected magistrates already *have* jobs which require a good deal of time and
attention. There is only so much a volunteer magistrate can do. And, when
those jobs don't get done for some reason, the Citizens become VERY upset. No
magistrate wants to abandon the valid business they have been elected to do,
to work on financial deals which are not specifically part of their job.
Around here that's a good way to have people screaming for your resignation.
(And probably execution!) ;)

The finances of Nova Roma probably won't be looked into "officially" on any
major basis for a while yet. We still have much work to do on our
Constitution, laws, and a raft of other political issues. We're working to
build a solid foundation from which progress can be made.

There is little doubt that more financial things can be done as the number of
Citizens grows, thereby increasing the number of people being willing to
volunteer to take on responsibility and work. In the meantime we're doing
pretty much all that our numbers and time will allow.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator


Subject:	Re: Ancient Faire
From:	Alasda--------organ Gunn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:32:40 -0700

Salve Marcus Minucius Audens!

James Mathews wrote:
>
> (snip) but the SCA unit in my area has definately indicated that they wish nothing to
> do with me as a Roman (Gee, I hope it the Roman part they object to-Grin).

How very odd of them. The SCA's mandate is to research and (selectively)
recreate pre-17th century western European culture, plus cultures which
could have come in contact therewith. When I first joined, almost a quarter
century ago, I was told that if I could find the documentation for an
Atlantean persona, I could be from Atlantis, but the persona's home culture
had to posses valid bona fides. This must be some peculiarity of the SCA
group in your area. I have friends who are Roman (Republican and Imperial)
in the SCA, Roman Britons, Roman-Hellenics (Byzantines), heck I've partied
with Roman households at SCA events. I think the Kingdom of Ansteorra
(Texas and Oklahoma) has a resident SCA Roman Legion.

Ah wel, at least you got us ~(({;-{)

In Amicus - Venator


Subject:	Re: Property
From:
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:58:23 EDT

Salvete,

The thread on property seems to have mostly gone by before I could respond.
Hope no one minds it being brought up again!

In a message ----------------/7/99 8:58:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a>
writes:

Audens:
> As you know the treasury is not very hefty, so I most
> respectfully ask you what is in your mind regarding said property??

Crys:
The land is actually owned by various members of my family. I first
offered to sell it to NR then realized what the sum of the treasury
was, then figured I would donate it of rent it at something like one
dollar for 10 years (I like to think even NR can afford that much, if
not I was willing to rent it myself).

Cassius:
If you were to decide to offer this property to Nova Roma, it would pretty
much have to be either donated or legally purchased by NR. The very idea of
property for Nova Roma is that it be something we own completely - thereby
making NR something more substantial than simply an Internet community.
Purchasing seems like a better idea than donating... land has value and you
should have some benefit after all! One other aspect of leasing is that the
land would of course have yearly taxes that would have to be paid. You don't
want to lease for a dollar for ten years, and then have to pay 100 dollars
*each* year out of your own pocket!

Crys:
My portion is somewhere between 1.5 and 2 acres. Total it is
between 8 and 10 acres. It is in suburban Mississippi. Right now
no one seems horribly interested in it (to listen to my mom, who is
in charge of getting rid of this land tell it).

Cassius:
The ultimate land claim of NR would be 108 acres somewhere as a symbolic
capital, kind of like a pagan/ancient Roman cultural Vatican City. However,
even an acre somewhere would allow us to put in a commemorative garden or
something, and raise a flag. It'd be great for PR on the website! :)

Crys:
I have known about this
land since I was 13 and didn't see any point in it then. Now I do. I
talked to Cassius about it a couple of times, but he kept
mentioning price. I'm not about making a profit off of NR (I have a
fair idea of how much money NR has ---- I'm not THAT crazy). I
just wanted to help.

Cassius:
I kept mentioning price because you deserve some benefit from that family
heritage of yours! Also, it would make the purchase much more legal... since
Nova Roma is an unusual sort of organizational entity we need to be sure we
do everything by the book. An outright purchase would also make sure that
both parties were fully protected in the event of something going sour down
the road. If there were some weird sort of future financial problem with the
property, say a lien being attached to it by a creditor or whatever, Nova
Roma couldn't toss it back into your lap and say, "No thanks!" Nor could any
member of your family attempt to take the property from NR years from now,
saying that the transaction wasn't legitimate.

Crys:
I've been talking about this for a year or better and have either been
ignored or not taken seriously. I am willing to at least talk to my
mother about selling to a group for a nice cheap rate or trading with
some aunt or uncle for a corner piece and donating it.

Cassius:
You certainly weren't ignored or not taken seriously on MY account! You and I
exchanged quite a few Emails and Instant Messages on the subject. If you
really want to do this thing I'll do everything possible personally to help
the deal go through. I have believed from day one that Nova Roma will benefit
greatly by having the tangible asset of land. The ancient Romans didn't put
so much emphasis on land ownership for nothing!

Crys:
That's about all I can think of for now. Sometimes I can come up
with something that might even be workable. NR would be on it's
own for tents, food, pottys and weather, but they would have Terra
Firma (?).

I still have to talk to my moms about it.

Cassius:
Please do! If you folks aren't attached to the land it would undoubtedly make
a great "first start" for Nova Roma. Location doesn't much matter... our
Citizens are so spread out that no place could really be central anyway. With
the gaining of land, *any* land, we'll be making a move from being a virtual
community into the real world.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator, Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Re: Property
From:	Alasda--------organ Gunn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:16:26 -0700

Avete Omnes!

Venator scripsit:

The gaining of land seems to be a growing trend amongst Heathen and Pagan
groups. Mine own Asatru Folk Assembly just recently was given 20 acres in
northern California. Asatruars are buying homes nearby and are getting a
start on an Asatru based intentional community. An Asatru Kindred in
northern Utah has just purchased a steading in southern Idaho. Other
"minority religious" groups have done the same over the years, most notibly
the Wiccan "Circle Sanctuary" in Wisconsin and "Ozark Avalon" in Missouri.

I heartily agree that the Neo-Romans need a Place to call their own.

Vale - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, Asatruar et Roman


Subject:	Re: (2nd Attempt) Lictors, please contact the Pontifex Maximus.
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:48:42 -0700 (PDT)

I am A LICTOR. Gauis Iunius
Germanus(<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I apologize for posting to the list again on this
> subject, but I am trying to
> reach all the official Lictors as quickly as
> possible so that our current
> Magistrates may be vested with Imperium.
>
> Again, I have no Email addresses for the Lictors.
> Until all Lictors are
> "contactable" the Pontificial College will be unable
> to organize the Comitia
> Curiata, or call it to order. I again request that
> all Lictors contact me
> personally. The appointed Lictors are as follows:
>
> "7) The following individuals are hereby appointed
> as lictores curiata: Gaius
> Iunius Germanus, T Labienus Fortunatus, Gaius Iunius
> Germanus, Gaius Drusus
> Domitianus, Camillus Severus Antoninus, Flavius
> Vedius Germanicus, Decius
> Iunius Palladius, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quinta
> Claudia Lucentia Aprica,
> Lucius Fabius Metellus, Augustina Iulia Caesaria
> Nocturnia, Lucinia Iunia
> Cypria, Marcus Martianus Gangalius, Marcus Minucius
> Audens, Junius Niger
> Montis, Gaius Olivarius Mezentius, Paulus Olympius
> Gallus, Lucius Petronius
> Gallus, Gaius Severus Marius Germanicus, Ambrosius
> Silvanus Virbius, Gnaeus
> Tarquinius Caesar, Titia Irisia, Gaius Triumphius
> Cicero, Piperbaru Ullerius
> Venator, Gaius Antonius Scaenicus, Gaius Augustus,
> Tiberius Caselius
> Sidonius, Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus, Marcus
> Equitius Lentulus, and
> Marcus Cornelius Felix."
>
> Since my posting on 10/4 I have heard from 6 out of
> 30 Lictors:
>
> 1. Gaius Iunius Germanicus
> 2. T. Labienus Fortunatus
> 3. Lucius Cornelius Sulla
> 4. Marcus Minucius Audens
> 5. Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
> 6. Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
>
> Technically, 8 out of 30 Lictors are accounted for,
> since Decius Iunius
> Palladius is off on his honeymoon, and Marcus
> Cornelius Felix is away from
> his computer for another week or so.
>
> I am hoping to hear from the other 22 Lictors ASAP.
> When you contact me I
> will send some info your way, and record your
> address so that you may be
> properly notified when the Comitia Curiata is
> convened. Thank you!!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
>
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>

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