Subject:	Pics
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 02:38:36 -0700

Salvete Omnes..

I added some pics I scanned of Helena Equitia Ovidia... on the e-list of
shared files... Just wanted to let everyone know. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla

Subject:	Re: Pics
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:13:53 -0500 (CDT)

e-list of shared files??? Do we have an organizational database for pics
to be stored?

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: Pics
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 03:15:04 -0700

Yes we do...its at onelist...under Nova Roma.. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla

Dean Troy wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> (Dean Troy)
>
> e-list of shared files??? Do we have an organizational database for pics
> to be stored?
>
> Gaius Drusus Domitianus
>
>

Subject:	Hellenicn
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:10:31 -0400 (EDT)

To, G.D. Domitianus;

Just out of curiosity and not out of criticism, what attributes would
you cite for your opinion about the subject institution and what are
your ideas about the improvement of such in NR.??

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Taxes, dues & Roman business
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:08:24 EDT

In a message dated 10/8/99 3:34:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=081166091180193192130061163101147165026048139046" >varromurena@--------</a> writes:

<< Obviously, if there are citizens willing to operate
from the NR website and willing to kickback a bit of
their profits to NR, why aren't we taking advantage of
this?

Cassius:
Because the focus of Nova Roma is to promote interest in things Roman. If we
start adding in a lot of things that have nothing to do with Rome just to
make money, the website would lose much of its effectiveness and we'd begin
to lose people's interest. We're trying to avoid situations like: "Nova Roma.
Come for an interest in Roman Civilization, stay for the great discounts on
lawn furniture!" We're not the only folks with this sort of rule, by the way.

Most other historical groups avoid blurring their focus by demanding that
their vendors have some direct connection to the topic at hand. You don't see
people selling televisions at Renaissance fairs or SCA gatherings, and you
don't see people selling electric mixers and lava lights at Civil War or
Revolutionary War reenactor events. There is good reason for this - you
either play to your market or you have no market.

And, just to calm your fears, we haven't been turning down dozens of
potential businesses. Only two vendors have been refused because their wares
simply had no connection whatever to anything Roman.

>Besides, what exactly is a "Roman" business?
Only selling antiquities? Selling mugs and tshirts
with cutesy Latin phrases?

I believe we've covered this somewhat... I listed out a good number of
potential Roman businesses when answering another Email of yours. Who knows,
if you'd read them perhaps you'd have found one that appealed to you, and you
could join the Ordo Equester!

In any case, a Roman business would be considered as any type of business
that has at least some direct connection to anything Roman. Direct "ancient"
endeavors could include costuming, armouring, weapons making, jewelry,
leather working, artistic drawing or painting, publishing written poetry or
prose, mosaic work, sculpture, woodworking, pottery, herbalism, making oils
and perfumes, glassblowing,
dealing in ancient coins or artifacts, offering common household items like
eating utinsils, hand mirrors, etc., textile/weaving work, teaching Latin
and other ancient subjects, and a good deal more.

More modern but acceptable businesses could include, reselling Roman oriented
computer games or videos, selling modern books on Roman subjects, the ad
specialty/collectible stuff you've already mentioned, (t-shirts, mugs,
keychains, etc. with Roman themes), Roman oriented photography, services such
obtaining out of print books or doing research for others, selling Roman
themed toys or any other type of more modern business that relates to Roman
subjects in some way.

Not acceptable businesses? Multi-level marketing schemes, pyramid schemes,
selling goods that neither existed in the Roman world nor relate to Roman
subjects, (blenders, washing machines, computers, etc.) illegal items,
books/videos on modern world subjects that don't touch on Rome or the
Classical world, weight loss/gain schemes, condo sales/timeshares (well,
outside of Roman territory anyway!), Beanie Babies, Pokemon, Avon, sports
cards, etc.

Obviously there are grey areas in places, and this is why the Censors make
individual case-by-case decisions. Nobody gets denied out of hand. If an
applicant for the Ordo Equester IS denied, they usually get suggestions on
how their business can be made more Roman if it's possible to do so.

> Why not, at the earliest
stages, encourage NR citizens to link their businesses
to the website and thus encourage NR citizens to "Buy
Nova Roman"? I understand Cassius' concerns, but
shouldn't NR also be encouraging business between its
citizens (which in turn would create a sense of
community), even if that business has nothing to do
with "Roman" concerns (as long as its not illegal or
against Roman Values?

Again, because it is in these earliest stages that we are most vulnerable to
polluting our overall focus with items that have nothing to do with Rome.
Again, people show up here because they're interested in Roman civilization.
If we don't play to that market as much as possible, we'll lose people's
interest.

Also, the goal of the Macellum is to CREATE Roman businesses as much as it is
to support Nova Roma financially. By lowering the standards we'd have nothing
to encourage people to get involved in "on topic" endeavors. Why take the
time to make Roman jewelry when you can sell modern stuff out of a "Merlite"
jewelry catalog? Why learn period costuming when you can sell ready-made
modern pants and Nike sneakers? Why learn to paint in Roman style when you
could buy and resell velvet paintings of Elvis? It's true that ancient stuff
is more difficult than modern, but if we're really interested in a Classical
world focus it's something we'll just have to deal with.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator

Subject:	Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:30:16 -0400

Salvete Consul Luci Corneli et alii



:From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>

. We all as
:citizens have a vested interest in Nova Roma. Why criticize something that
:would be equally distributed to all civies?

I think that Varro Murena has supplied some good reasons, but here's mine:


i -- Taxes may be necessary, but to demonstrate that reasonably, the Senate
needs to pass a budget. The thrust of the arguments of the pro-tax people
seems to be "We need taxes yesterday", while there has been no hurry,
apparently, to pass the budget, despite Audens' work to prepare it and put
it before two NR senates.
ii -- A high ranking official recently pointed out to me in this forum that
commerce in NR is non existent. I don't doubt his assessment of NR
commerce, but I would like to point out that tax receipts may prove to be
nearly as non existent. You see, monetary contributions to NR, in whatever
form, depend on people interested in the welfare of NR, and sufficiently
confident in NR officialdom to contribute money. While our website declares
that we have 300+ citizens, the reality is probably quite different: we
have fewer citizens than that, and of those, how many are ready to send
money? At least one high ranking official of NR recently said in this forum
that he had no intention of sending any money until NR Corp. was completely
merged with NR the micronation, a position in which he is not, I believe, at
all alone.
iii -- While taxes may prove to be necessary, other approaches to raising
money should be attempted first. The idea of a fundraising campaign, in
which donors are granted honorary titles posted on the website, has been
championed by Cn Tarquinius Caesar and others before him. Why not try this,
and other voluntary taxation, before instituting a tax? Is it because it's
too complicated, too much work, or what? If this is too much work for the
Senate and magistrates, then please explain, just what is so fully occupying
the Senate and magistrates right now?
iv -- I find the argument that we should pay taxes to demonstrate the level
of our seriousness about NR foolish and a little repugnant. Especially when
at least one high ranking official in NR reveals that he hasn't had time to
read the legal documents in the Aerarium Saturni. Does such a revelation
inspire seriousness about NR?

Here's my "tax proposal":

i -- Let the Senate pass a budget that shows what our expenses are
(including the amount of investment in the "bright future", which should not
exceed half the concrete expenses), how much much money is now in the
treasury (if any), how much money magistrates and others have spent out of
their own pockets, and a reasonable estimate of how much the treasury is
bringing in from non existent commerce through the macellum.

ii -- Let the process of merging the Corporation with the micronation be
completed.

iii -- Let the Senate then issue a consultum that appeals to the citizens to
contribute money voluntarily, as Caesar and others have been advocating.

iv -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of that SC, contributions are still
insufficient, let the Senate issue another consultum imposing a tax, with
broad leniency for citizens outside the US in terms of timeframe for
payment, and without any specific penalty for non-payment

v -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of the latter SC, payment is still
insufficient, let the consules issue edicta specifying penalties (loss of
century points, voting rights, citizenship et cetera) for non-payment. If
we get to this point, it is likely that NR will be in her last days.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

Subject:	Suggested Senate Actions
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:06:11 -0400 (EDT)

I have arrived bachome from my rather damp foray into the re-enactment
over the weekend. We had a grand time and I wish that we could have
captured the moment when the "Most Hated Man In Town (me)": finally got
shot.

It was raning, and all my troops had just gotten aboard the schooner and
it was about to cast off lines, when I took the planned hit. The
cheering was overwhelming. My young orderly (eight years old) had been
encouraged to stay with me when I fell. As my opponent s approached the
young man drew his little wooden sword screamed "KILLERS!!!!!" at the
top of his voices and attacked the nearest soldier. He was gently led
away.

I am aware that this description may be a litte off topic , but it was
great moment and were many spectatores standing in the rain who
applauded and responded so very favorably that I wished to share the
moment.

Back to Nova Roma:

As always your suggested list of government tasks is well thought out
and appealing. In respect to the titular certificates, I believe the
idea stopped at that point,but an additional idea (piggy-backed of the
first no doubt) was that certificates be made up for sale as a member of
Nova Roma, as an Magistrate of Nova -Roma, as a holder of a Relgious
position in Nova Roma and as the holder of a position of honor in Nova
Roma. In answer to your question I have asked of two printing
businesses to provide me with a cost for te development and printing of
such certificates. I am assuming that the design will be expensive.
Another pathway to the same solution would be to design each of the
certificates myself and send them to Cassius to "smooth" and then to put
them on sale. All this of course will take some time, and should anyone
have source of "Roman Art" or someting similar It would pprove to be
most valuable in this effort. I have already made that appeal with no
response. The positions that I have on my list so far are as follow:

--Praetor (provincial)
--Pro-Consul (provincial)
--Legatus (provincial)
--Pontifex Maximus
--Pontiff
--Priest / Priestess
--Consul
--Censor
--Praetor (or Praetor Urbanus as desired)
--Curile Aedile
--Tribune (militum)
--Tribune (civicum)
--Sodalitus Chairman
--Senator
--Quaestor
--Special Service Certificate to NR
--NR Membership

I have probably missed a few, but I am sure tat someone will be pleased
to bring that to my attenton.

In further answer to your question, I will be pleased to sell these
items from my Macellum sales site upon recieving approval from the
censors, and some indication from the NR Membership that such a idea is
appealing. However, I feel that I should have in hand a few examples to
demonstrate, and that has not yet been accomplished. I am also inclined
to offer this set when it is completed at a reasonable price and donate
the profits over the cost of materials for one year to NR, with a
percentage of 15% the profits after the first year.

However, I hope that all NR members realize that this is a
time-consuming effort and I have a finite amount of time to devote to
NR, So since such a project depends upon the response, assistance and
ideas of others, I should ask your indulgence as I proceed.

These things above are the actions that I am taking for Nova Roma, and I
am proud to do so.. I would be pleased to hear of other undertakings of
a similar nature.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor .

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Building Bridges
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:23:13 -0400 (EDT)

I have been absent for this thead, for the most part, and even though my
good friend Ericius has hinted that it has perhaps gone far enough, I
hope that I may record some remarks.

Vado;
I apprecite very much your putting into words my feelings in such a
sensitive and yet clear and concise way. I agree with your assessment
and I am greatly encouraged that you and by definition that the other
members of NR can see that clearly. I thank you extremely for your
words.and your faith in me.

Fabius:
I hasten to assure you that I have no "hatchet" men nor do I have at My
beck and call any hired men to speak and agitate for me. Anything that
has been said on this net is unsolicited except for the announcement to
those people that I thought would support my candidacy to this office.
I suspect that you did much the same. So while you may say to me what
you will, regarding this campaign,, I do assure you that no-one else is
under any obligaton to me for any other reason except agreement with
what I say and what I stand for. To intimate otherwise, I believe is
unfortunate, imprecise, and in contention with the honor and dignity of
the NR citizens to whom such comments are directed.

Hmmmmmmmmm!! In regard to my leaving NR temporarily, I acknowledge at
this point that was a mistake. I not belive so at the time I took the
action. People make mistakes, and as I have said before, I think that
it is how mistakes are learned from, that is important.. I have
apologized at least twice to Nova Roma for that lapse and was asked to
return by firm friends who range throughtout this micronation in rank
and interest. The Dictator himself indicated that since I had not
contacted the Censores formally that he did not consider that I had left
NR. Upon my request, the Dictator restored all honors and positions to
me, with the exception o Quaestor which hd been replaced in the new
constitution. Since I was the Junior Quaestor in votes garnered, that
was the only fair way to reduce the magistracy, and he suggested that I
consider taking up the task of Eagle Editor which I have done.. I would
remind you that the former Dictator Germanicus also left NR and returned
and was restored to the Senate with no seeming problem in that he was
selected as Dictator and supported as the author of our new constitution
and is a current holder of a senior magistarcy and a religious office.
I recall that a former Senator also resigned and then returned without
any penalty under the same conditions.. I do not think to place myself
in the same bracket with these high officers, but I believe I am
derserving of the same kind of respect as are all members of NR. The
respect to make a mistake and to do their best to rectify such. If that
cannot be granted, then where do all those who currently occupy high
positions in NR but have made mistakes in the past, stand? Will their
errors be brought up again and again ad nuseum at the whim of every
candidate for office. At what point does that cease in an enlightened
organization??

In consideration of leaving an organization, I think I detect a
difference in attitude between you and I which may be signifigant. I
will always work for any organization to which I belong and so you have
demonstrated as well. I will always stey with an organization as long
as a portion of the organization supports me as you have also
demonstrated. However,in this contention, when I am convinced that I am
no longer wanted or needed, then I will leave, and your comments
indicate that you will stay. That is our difference, and while I do not
in any way fault you for your ideals, such is simply not my way.

You have indicated that my ability to understand and honor the Gods of
Rome is unclear to you. Vado has made it very clear I think to everyone
in his "Bridgebuiilding Message", but let me speak to that topic
personally since you bring it up. In my religion I have reached a
contract (agreement) with my God, and my belief in his infinite support
for me and his care of me in times of need is absoute.. It is a
complicated contract indeed, and considering my past life, one in which
I am most indebted to my god in taking up. I have no such "contract"
with the Gods of Rome. I respect the Gods of Rome as I respect the
other great religions, Islamic, Indian, Jewish, American Indian and
Bhuddist. I will not allow them to be berated, reduced or diminshed in
any way if it is within my power to so, and I will do my best for them
as well;, but I do not have a "contract" with them. That is part of
Honor and Dignitu my friend Fabius and as you have told me, very kindly,
on the net in your own words:

"Do not change Audens, your Honor and Dignity inspires NR" (or words to
that effect) If you understand that,I wonder that my beliefs and my
honors were so unclear. I trust they are clearer now

Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Taxes, Dues, whatever...
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:57:05 EDT

n a message dated 10/11/99 7:41:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Gaius Marius
Merullus (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>) writes:

Sulla:

. We all as
:citizens have a vested interest in Nova Roma. Why criticize something that
:would be equally distributed to all civies?

Merullus:
> I think that Varro Murena has supplied some good reasons, but here's mine:

Merullus:
i -- Taxes may be necessary, but to demonstrate that reasonably, the Senate
needs to pass a budget. The thrust of the arguments of the pro-tax people
seems to be "We need taxes yesterday", while there has been no hurry,
apparently, to pass the budget, despite Audens' work to prepare it and put
it before two NR senates.

Cassius:
The old Senate never got the opportunity to pass Auden's budget due to the
Social Wars. Even though everyone recognized the importance of a proper
budget, this topic had to be put aside because of the
tribes/impeachment/interregnum situations.

Marcus Minucius Audens submitted his budget to the "new" Senate only a week
ago, just before Consul Palladius' wedding, and the current vote. As you know
the Senate cannot be in session while the Comitia Centuriata is convened and
holding an election. However, individual Senators have had opportunity to go
over the budget and assist in making necessary updates, etc. This will mean
that Audens can present a "final" budget to the Senate when it CAN convene,
and then the budget can be officially passed.

Merullus:
ii -- A high ranking official recently pointed out to me in this forum that
commerce in NR is non existent. I don't doubt his assessment of NR
commerce, but I would like to point out that tax receipts may prove to be
nearly as non existent.

Cassius:
Commerce in NR isn't non existent, but it is unfortunately a subject that has
received little attention from both magistrates and Citizens. Politics and
various crises have always been the more important issues.

Merullus:
>You see, monetary contributions to NR, in whatever
form, depend on people interested in the welfare of NR, and sufficiently
confident in NR officialdom to contribute money. While our website declares
that we have 300+ citizens, the reality is probably quite different: we
have fewer citizens than that, and of those, how many are ready to send
money?

Cassius:
We have 300+ Citizens officially. By good estimate 270+ of them are still
around. The rest simply changed Email/surface mail addresses and have become
uncontactable, or have decided to move on and didn't bother to inform anyone
so that they could be removed from the rolls. The Censors (or the new
Censorial scribes!) will hopefully soon have opportunity to try contacting
everyone to verify who still is a Citizen and who is gone.

Out of those 270+ Citizens estimated, who would be willing to pay a Citizen's
tax, membership fees or whatever? Amazingly enough, most. I spent months
being violently opposed to taxation and was stunned how many people were
*for* taxes. Citizens cited the fact virtually ALL other major world
organizations charge such fees. Many even stated that they thought less of
Nova Roma for not having such a basic financial system in place, and said
they'd almost avoided Citizenship because they were wary of a group so
seemingly disorganized that it would ignore such a common standard.

Merullus:
At least one high ranking official of NR recently said in this forum
that he had no intention of sending any money until NR Corp. was completely
merged with NR the micronation, a position in which he is not, I believe, at
all alone.

Cassius:
It has also been stated recently in this forum that Taxation is not something
that is going to be put in place immediately. There are other important
things that must be done first, such as a budget being voted official, and
the corporation board of directors and bylaws being changed over. Just
because this thread has been continued ad nauseum doesn't mean that taxation
is an emergency issue.

Merullus:
iii -- While taxes may prove to be necessary, other approaches to raising
money should be attempted first. The idea of a fundraising campaign, in
which donors are granted honorary titles posted on the website, has been
championed by Cn Tarquinius Caesar and others before him. Why not try this,
and other voluntary taxation, before instituting a tax?

Cassius:
Both voluntary taxation and attempts at fundraising have been attempted, but
there hasn't been much of a return. Surely if Nova Roma continuously put
effort into voluntary fundraising there'd be better results. However it would
take about the same overall effort as taxation, and worse yet, such measures
could easily become an irritant. "Voluntary" sounds like a desirable thing,
but it in fact equals "Constantly being asked for money". Who wants Nova
Roma to always sound like public radio and tv during their membership drive
months?

A tax would make Nova Roma the equal of virtually ALL other international
organizations, such as the Audobon Society or Greenpeace, which link a set
financial responsibility to the opportunity for membership. It's a system
that is professional, organized, and fairly painless. (Except for that one
month a year when one has to write out a check!) ;)

Merullus:
>Is it because it's
too complicated, too much work, or what? If this is too much work for the
Senate and magistrates, then please explain, just what is so fully occupying
the Senate and magistrates right now?

Cassius:
Yes, it really IS too much work. It requires the same record keeping as
taxation, but demands much more continuous effort. It would force Nova Roma
to constantly try to create new marketing schemes to sell itself to the
Citizens so that they would donate voluntarily. Once a tax system is in place
it'll be low key and quiet... funding by donation would mean constant appeals
for money, fund drives and other efforts to coax Citizen's into opening their
purses.

If you've been reading this list you have some idea of the things that the
Senate and magistrates are focusing on. There is an election in progress, a
budget is in the works, Nova Roma as a corporation has to be changed over,
new censorial scribes have been appointed and are being trained, we have a
new webmistress, which will mean changes to the site, and several other
issues on top of regular maintenance business just to keep NR functioning.

I can't help but point out that there are Citizens who raise a public outcry
every time some magistrate isn't attending to their official jobs to the
standards they expect. Now you want the magistrates to put aside their
official constitutional duties and become sales/marketing people? This would
only give more opportunities for complaint, and nobody is going to willingly
open themselves up to more criticism.

Merullus:
iv -- I find the argument that we should pay taxes to demonstrate the level
of our seriousness about NR foolish and a little repugnant. Especially when
at least one high ranking official in NR reveals that he hasn't had time to
read the legal documents in the Aerarium Saturni. Does such a revelation
inspire seriousness about NR?

Cassius:
The "one high ranking official" you're speaking about is me. I made no secret
of the fact that I had missed the full import of the documents concerning the
Lictors in the Ararium Saturni during the Social Wars, and had not had
opportunity to check back over them later while putting all efforts into
building up the Pontificial College and the Priesthoods. Do you really want
to publicly accuse me of not being serious about Nova Roma? Go ahead.

I must also remind you that the officials who are proposing taxation would be
PAYING that tax themselves. I personally find the argument that Citizens
should have full rights AND expect the people doing all the work pay all the
bills as well to be foolish and repugnant.

Merullus:
Here's my "tax proposal":

> i -- Let the Senate pass a budget that shows what our expenses are
(including the amount of investment in the "bright future", which should not
exceed half the concrete expenses), how much much money is now in the
treasury (if any), how much money magistrates and others have spent out of
their own pockets, and a reasonable estimate of how much the treasury is
bringing in from non existent commerce through the macellum.

Cassius:
The Senate will be passing a budget as soon as it can legally convene.
However, I strongly support NO limitations as to how much money Nova Roma can
put aside for such projects as land, coinage, and the like. Why limit our
potential? Our current maintenance costs are perhaps $500 per year. If we
have 270 Citizens paying $15.00 per year in taxes, that will mean $4,050.00
per year. This would allow Nova Roma to have land far sooner than has ever
been hoped, AND pay for expanding the NR infrastructure so that Citizenship
is a better deal. Rather than keeping our growth to a percentage of our
current "barest possible" costs, we should find the most positive uses for
that $4,050.00 per year, and then stick to that tax rate for at least a ten
or fifteen year period. And, if by programs such as the Macellum the annual
income for Nova Roma far exceeds that $4,050.00 so much the better. Who
knows, in four or five years we could have land AND a worldwide headquarters
building!

ii -- Let the process of merging the Corporation with the micronation be
completed.

Cassius:
In this we are in complete agreement. The corporation must be changed over
before taxation can even become a possibility.

iii -- Let the Senate then issue a consultum that appeals to the citizens to
contribute money voluntarily, as Caesar and others have been advocating.

Cassius:
It honestly makes little sense that Nova Roma should be the only
international organization in the entire world without a dues structure. Even
Cub Scouts have to pay dues, AND do fund drives besides.

Merullus:
iv -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of that SC, contributions are still
insufficient, let the Senate issue another consultum imposing a tax, with
broad leniency for citizens outside the US in terms of timeframe for
payment, and without any specific penalty for non-payment

Cassius:
The difficulty with a voluntary tax effort is that it just might work for 30
days... and then would have to be done again, and again, in perpetuity.

Any official tax would certainly have built in allowances for folks living
overseas. This has already been discussed on the list.

Merullus:
v -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of the latter SC, payment is still
insufficient, let the consules issue edicta specifying penalties (loss of
century points, voting rights, citizenship et cetera) for non-payment. If
we get to this point, it is likely that NR will be in her last days.

Cassius:
If we get to that point, we'll be holding the same standard that virtually
all major organizations hold. If you pay membership dues you get to be a
member, if you don't you're eventually dropped from the rolls unless some
sort of special arrangement is made on an individual basis.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator

Subject:	Music is Lusitania!!! =)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:21:49 +0100

Salvete omnes!

The Lusitania Web page now includes background ancient music im MPEG3
format. Please try it at <a href="http://gama.inesc.pt/Lusitania" target="_top" >http://gama.inesc.pt/Lusitania</a>

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae

Subject:	Roman Relgio
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:12:34 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of NR;

Consul Sulla wrote; "----unlike Audens I have taken an active interest
in the Religio---"

Unfortunately, I feel that I must bring to the Honored Cosul's attention
that he is inaccurate in his above statement. While I do not have nor
have I ever pretended to have the authority to make changes at the
Consul's level I have repeatedly asked the Pontifex Maximus for
information regarding the Religio, and he has responded in the last
issue of the Eagle and hopefully in the next one as well, with a
continuing report. As the Editor of the Eagle I am concerned with the
success of the Religio Romana. I have printed some of the verses
generated in NR for relgious purposes, and have contributed articles
regardng reliigion in this perid to Eagle before my citizenship. I have
visited NR friends and have witnessed and appreciated the beauty and
solemnity of the altar prayers. I have asked one of the augurs to
continue his auguries for the Eagle and I believe as soon as he has the
time he will again continue to do so. I have supplied information to
several people seeking information on the Religio when no-one else would
answer their questions and I have written to a priest who was under
pressure, making some suggestions and providing my support. in his
situation.

I do not have the opportunity of a Consul or a Pontiff to make great
strides in the advanement of the Religio, nor do I deserve or seek
such,, but I would most reespectfully remind the Honored Consul that the
small things are indications of the interests of Nova Roma just as the
actions of the more exhalted members are, and that the Roman Virtues do
not depend upon rank, but rather upon quality to be recognized.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Audens' certificate effort was Suggested Senate Actions
From:	"Gaius Marius Merullus" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:41:21 -0400

Salvete Marce Minuci et alii

If the Senate will buy (expressed in a senatus consultum following or
concurrent with the passage of a budget) the certificate idea as a means of
conducting a voluntary fundraising effort, I pledge the following:

- up to 100 USD to buy certificate stock and ship it to the person
responsible for printing
- my help, as desired on the part of the person responsible for content, in
Latin phrasing for the certificates

I would love to offer my services to print the certificates, but someone
with at least a decent laser printer should do this. Noone is going to want
to pay real money for anything that I print on my silly inkjet printer, and
that's a fact.

:From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------br> :
:I have arrived bachome from my rather damp foray into the re-enactment
:over the weekend. We had a grand time and I wish that we could have
:captured the moment when the "Most Hated Man In Town (me)": finally got
:shot.

How could you be the "Most Hated Man in Town" :)?
:

:Back to Nova Roma:
:
In respect to the titular certificates, I believe the
:idea stopped at that point,but an additional idea (piggy-backed of the
:first no doubt) was that certificates be made up for sale as a member of
:Nova Roma, as an Magistrate of Nova -Roma, as a holder of a Relgious
:position in Nova Roma and as the holder of a position of honor in Nova
:Roma.

I have already made that appeal with no
:response. The positions that I have on my list so far are as follow:
:
:--Praetor (provincial)

Or Propraetor, in keeping with the newest nomenclature.

:--Pro-Consul (provincial)
:--Legatus (provincial)
:--Pontifex Maximus
:--Pontiff

Or Pontifex, for those of us who just can't get enough Latin.

:--Priest / Priestess

We could have special certificates, with images appropriate to the
corresponding deities, for the flaminates.
:--Consul
:--Censor
:--Praetor (or Praetor Urbanus as desired)
:--Curile Aedile
:--Tribune (militum)
:--Tribune (civicum)
:--Sodalitus Chairman
:--Senator
:--Quaestor
:--Special Service Certificate to NR
:--NR Membership
:
:I have probably missed a few, but I am sure tat someone will be pleased
:to bring that to my attenton.

- Aedilis Plebis, Lictor Curiatus, Curator Araneae, Curator Sermonum,
Rogator, Accensus
- Don't forget the possibility of certificates purely "bought" for monetary
donations to NR: titles for these could be "honoratus" and the like.
:
:In further answer to your question, I will be pleased to sell these
:items from my Macellum sales site upon recieving approval from the
:censors, and some indication from the NR Membership that such a idea is
:appealing. However, I feel that I should have in hand a few examples to
:demonstrate, and that has not yet been accomplished. I am also inclined
:to offer this set when it is completed at a reasonable price and donate
:the profits over the cost of materials for one year to NR, with a
:percentage of 15% the profits after the first year.

This is how I would like to see it done:

- You make the certificates with help from volunteers: I stand ready to
help with textual content, if you like; Crystallina, Caesar, anyone else,
do you have any ideas on ways to help produce content?
- Orders with payment can be sent by snail mail to a quaestor assigned by
the Senate to this task
- The designated quaestor can then relay the necessary information per
order to you
- You then make each certificate custom to each order. I believe that a
guy/gal with (access to) a color laser printer is going to be more feasible
than handing off a bunch of orders to a print shop. We're not talking big
volume here, not at all. It has to be done in a fast, cheap manner, I
think.

So, what I am proposing is to buy you some stock and help you write
certificate content, with the understanding that neither of us would see a
penny back from the project. It's not a business proposal, it's an offer to
help raise money for NR.
:
:However, I hope that all NR members realize that this is a
:time-consuming effort and I have a finite amount of time to devote to
:NR, So since such a project depends upon the response, assistance and
:ideas of others, I should ask your indulgence as I proceed.

Right. I understand. I could say the same thing in fact. I offer my help,
as described above.
:
:
:Marcus Minucius Audens
:Candidate For Praetor .

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

:
:Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
:

Subject:	wow back online
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:01:36 -0700

Salve
well I am back online But i got over 5000 emails ( my ISP holds them for
me when i am offline
thats why i am still with them.)
so it is monday 11:57am PDT give me till tue at noon PDT .
I should have read all the lod email by them and can start back up with
you all.
vale
Wuffa/Felix/waw/wheeler

Subject:	Re: Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	JSA varromurena@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT)

> Here's my "tax proposal":
>
> i -- Let the Senate pass a budget that shows what
> our expenses are
> (including the amount of investment in the "bright
> future", which should not
> exceed half the concrete expenses), how much much
> money is now in the
> treasury (if any), how much money magistrates and
> others have spent out of
> their own pockets, and a reasonable estimate of how
> much the treasury is
> bringing in from non existent commerce through the
> macellum.
>
> ii -- Let the process of merging the Corporation
> with the micronation be
> completed.
>
> iii -- Let the Senate then issue a consultum that
> appeals to the citizens to
> contribute money voluntarily, as Caesar and others
> have been advocating.
>
> iv -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of that SC,
> contributions are still
> insufficient, let the Senate issue another consultum
> imposing a tax, with
> broad leniency for citizens outside the US in terms
> of timeframe for
> payment, and without any specific penalty for
> non-payment
>
> v -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of the
> latter SC, payment is still
> insufficient, let the consules issue edicta
> specifying penalties (loss of
> century points, voting rights, citizenship et
> cetera) for non-payment. If
> we get to this point, it is likely that NR will be
> in her last days.
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Marius Merullus
>

I second this proposal.

L. Licinius Varro Murena

Subject:	Magistrates
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:21:11 -0400 (EDT)

To, L.Varro Murena

you wrote:"---others (magistrates) seem mostly involved in running for
office, boasting of thier qulifications, running other candidates
down----"

In regard to your comments,, it may have escaped your notice, ,but this
is a declared and quite proper campaign for office. It not only occurs
in Nova Roma, but in the United States and any other country having an
elected government on periodic occasions. During such campaigns the
style is generally very similar. .Both candidates have listed thier
qualifications which is also quite usual,as well as useful for the
voters. Several of these voters have already commented favorably upon
this campaign.

If you have any practical ideas about running a campaign without these
various required items, perhaps you would confide in us.

I must however, disagree, that the magistrates have been guilty of
anything improper. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that certain
given magistrates have been responding to your ideas with detailed
patient expanations which you apparently have brushed asde as irrevelant
or untrue. Now you may of course say what you wish to about me, but
you have for some reason have not done so., However, to fasten onto and
accuse magistrates of taking time from thier dutues to provide answers
to your questions, and then to scorn the answers seems to me to be
somewhat rude.

You have made several suggestion, which have been met with answers which
you do not like. Then in that case, I recommend that you get several
people together and propose a specific change to NR polocies, with some
specific goals in mind. You have offered to review a book as a
beginning; ----do it. You have indicated that you do not know how to
increase the Macellum's efficiency and that you do not have the time for
such. Apparently niether does anyone else--Sorry, but that's the way it
goes sometimes!!

I am sure that when or if I ever rise to the position of a Magistrate
that you will criticize my actions as well, and that is certainly your
priveledge, since it will be part of my job, at that time, to take those
kind of remarks and to be polite in spite of them. But until that time
I would ask that you be alittle easier on our Magistrates. They are all
active, they are all doing thier jobs within the allotted schedules
which apparrently you are not aware of, and you are actually quite
fortunate to have these men and women in place at this time whether you
are aware of that fact or not.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Candidate For Praetor.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	3rd Attempt - Lictors please contact the Pontifex Maximus
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:49:58 EDT

From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------;

Salvete,

I apologize for posting to the list a third time on this subject, but I am
trying to
gain responses all the official Lictors as quickly as possible so that our
current
Magistrates may be vested with Imperium.

Again, I do not have Email addresses for all the Lictors. Until all Lictors
are
"contactable" the Pontificial College will be unable to organize the Comitia
Curiata, or call it to order. I again request that all Lictors contact me
personally. The appointed Lictors are as follows:

"7) The following individuals are hereby appointed as lictores curiata: Gaius
Iunius Germanus, T Labienus Fortunatus, Gaius Iunius Germanus, Gaius Drusus
Domitianus, Camillus Severus Antoninus, Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Decius
Iunius Palladius, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Quinta Claudia Lucentia Aprica,
Lucius Fabius Metellus, Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia, Lucinia Iunia
Cypria, Marcus Martianus Gangalius, Marcus Minucius Audens, Junius Niger
Montis, Gaius Olivarius Mezentius, Paulus Olympius Gallus, Lucius Petronius
Gallus, Gaius Severus Marius Germanicus, Ambrosius Silvanus Virbius, Gnaeus
Tarquinius Caesar, Titia Irisia, Gaius Triumphius Cicero, Piperbaru Ullerius
Venator, Gaius Antonius Scaenicus, Gaius Augustus, Tiberius Caselius
Sidonius, Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus, Marcus Equitius Lentulus, and
Marcus Cornelius Felix."

Since my posting on 10/4 I have heard from 11 out of 30 Lictors:

1. Gaius Iunius Germanus
2. T. Labienus Fortunatus
3. Lucius Cornelius Sulla
4. Marcus Minucius Audens
5. Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar
6. Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
7. Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus
8. Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
9. Lucius Fabius Metellus
10. Lucius Cornelius Felix
11. Gaius Drusus Domitianus


Technically, 12 out of 30 Lictors are accounted for, since Decius Iunius
Palladius is still offline I believe.

I am hoping to hear from the other 18 Lictors ASAP. When you contact me I
will send some info your way, and record your address so that you may be
properly notified when the Comitia Curiata is convened. Thank you!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

Subject:	Re: Re: Taxes / Dues -- Whatever they are called
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:19:50 -0700

Salvete Omnes..

Please keep in mind...I am not going to be authoring a lex on taxes at all.
This debate is not something that is going to get resolved during Decius Iunius
and my Consulship. Both him and I have discussed this issue...and this is one
issue that is not going to be dealt with. Most likely our Consuls for the next
year will be dealing with this. So while this debate is going on. Please keep
in mind that nothing has been submitted to the Senate, nor will this issue be
discussed, presented or legislated by myself or Decius Iunius.

With that in mind here are my opinions:


Gaius Marius Merullus wrote:

> From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
> Salvete Consul Luci Corneli et alii
>
> :From: "RCW" <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
> . We all as
> :citizens have a vested interest in Nova Roma. Why criticize something that
> :would be equally distributed to all civies?
>
> I think that Varro Murena has supplied some good reasons, but here's mine:
>
> i -- Taxes may be necessary, but to demonstrate that reasonably, the Senate
> needs to pass a budget. The thrust of the arguments of the pro-tax people
> seems to be "We need taxes yesterday", while there has been no hurry,
> apparently, to pass the budget, despite Audens' work to prepare it and put
> it before two NR senates.

Sulla: Yes...and as I stated in previous e-mail to this list...that issue has
been resolved and once the Senate is called to order after the Comitia
Centuriata is complete, that very issue will be debated and discussed and
hopefully adopted. Audens did a terrific job and P.Cassia also gave information
regarding the budget. Both of them should be commended on their contributions.

>
> ii -- A high ranking official recently pointed out to me in this forum that
> commerce in NR is non existent. I don't doubt his assessment of NR
> commerce, but I would like to point out that tax receipts may prove to be
> nearly as non existent. You see, monetary contributions to NR, in whatever
> form, depend on people interested in the welfare of NR, and sufficiently
> confident in NR officialdom to contribute money. While our website declares
> that we have 300+ citizens, the reality is probably quite different: we
> have fewer citizens than that, and of those, how many are ready to send
> money? At least one high ranking official of NR recently said in this forum
> that he had no intention of sending any money until NR Corp. was completely
> merged with NR the micronation, a position in which he is not, I believe, at
> all alone.

Sulla: And I agree with that as well. I am not trying to legislate a tax law
now. But, once this issue is resloved this impediment should not exist.
Correct?

>
> iii -- While taxes may prove to be necessary, other approaches to raising
> money should be attempted first. The idea of a fundraising campaign, in
> which donors are granted honorary titles posted on the website, has been
> championed by Cn Tarquinius Caesar and others before him. Why not try this,
> and other voluntary taxation, before instituting a tax? Is it because it's
> too complicated, too much work, or what? If this is too much work for the
> Senate and magistrates, then please explain, just what is so fully occupying
> the Senate and magistrates right now?

Sulla: Titles for money....Umm.....I dont know....If they are elected then that
would be different...it carries responsibility. But titles for just the
donation of funds? Well....that is different...

>
> iv -- I find the argument that we should pay taxes to demonstrate the level
> of our seriousness about NR foolish and a little repugnant. Especially when
> at least one high ranking official in NR reveals that he hasn't had time to
> read the legal documents in the Aerarium Saturni. Does such a revelation
> inspire seriousness about NR?

> Here's my "tax proposal":
>
> i -- Let the Senate pass a budget that shows what our expenses are
> (including the amount of investment in the "bright future", which should not
> exceed half the concrete expenses), how much much money is now in the
> treasury (if any), how much money magistrates and others have spent out of
> their own pockets, and a reasonable estimate of how much the treasury is
> bringing in from non existent commerce through the macellum.
>
> ii -- Let the process of merging the Corporation with the micronation be
> completed.
>
> iii -- Let the Senate then issue a consultum that appeals to the citizens to
> contribute money voluntarily, as Caesar and others have been advocating.
>

Sulla: Issue 4 and 5 seem to be diffucult to legislate and well...just my first
impression seem difficult to enforce without the compulsion of the Censors to
exeucte the Edicta. And would it be the Consuls who determine if the money
gathered is insufficent...and what about financial hardships....These two items
would requrie a lot of work..IMHO.

>
> iv -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of that SC, contributions are still
> insufficient, let the Senate issue another consultum imposing a tax, with
> broad leniency for citizens outside the US in terms of timeframe for
> payment, and without any specific penalty for non-payment
>
> v -- If, within 30 days of the issuance of the latter SC, payment is still
> insufficient, let the consules issue edicta specifying penalties (loss of
> century points, voting rights, citizenship et cetera) for non-payment. If
> we get to this point, it is likely that NR will be in her last days.
>
>

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: Building Bridges
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:22:26 -0700

>
> In consideration of leaving an organization, I think I detect a
> difference in attitude between you and I which may be signifigant. I
> will always work for any organization to which I belong and so you have
> demonstrated as well. I will always stey with an organization as long
> as a portion of the organization supports me as you have also
> demonstrated. However,in this contention, when I am convinced that I am
> no longer wanted or needed, then I will leave, and your comments
> indicate that you will stay. That is our difference, and while I do not
> in any way fault you for your ideals, such is simply not my way.

Audens, are you saying that if you dont get elected you are going to
resign? Or if you dont get elected to the Consulship in December you are
going to resign your citizenship again?

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

Subject:	Re: Building Bridges
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:16:14 -0400 (EDT)

Honored Consul;

Sir: I cannot believe that you would ask such a question of me
privately, much less over the onelist. Were you anyone but the Consul I
would be forced to call you impertinent!!

I took a great deal of trouble to explain that I had made a mistake,
just as you once did. Your raising that topic again is either totally
disregarding my feeling s on the subject, or an out and out attack on my
personal integrity.

I shall respond to your rather heavy habded question as follows:

I have never raised the issue of your previous error, because I beliee
it past with your apology. I am not sure why you do not allow me the
same courtesy, particularly in the light of your early support for my
candidacy to this office.

If it comes to pass that I, Marcus Minucius Audens is no longer welcome
in this organization by request of the organization as a whole, I will
quietly take my leave. This is what happened before, and I was
horrified to find out the person that so reviled me that day, lied to
me. However, anything as insignificant as an election, appointment,
opportunity or any other situation will never negate the friends that I
have here, and only they and I know who they are. I see that I have one
less than I thought.

My political ambitions do not proceed ahead of the moment, as whether
you are aware or not I am presently engaged in a campaign. I would not
presume to the stupidity of considering some future office if I do not
have the measure of my suitability in the eyes of the electorate, much
less the questionable consideration of another man's plans.

No I will not resign my citizenship for the point of a failed campign,
faile appointment, failed opportunity,or any other reason except as
indicated above; even if the point is administered by a member whose
word is not worth the paper it is written on.

Vale, Honored Consul
Very Respectfully
Marcus Miunicius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: Taxes, dues & Roman business--Disagreement
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:34:44 -0500 (CDT)

I have to go and say that I couldn't disagree more on the issue of
gaining funds through all business possibilities except what was noted--
pyramid multi-level marketing schemes, weight loss programs, time share
rentals,etc. Here is the problem:

This is not the SCA or an historical society although our
citizenship includes both and in this place-Nova Roma we have the
opportunity to explore these interests with others here. Nova Roma is
actually as I see it a set of ancient ideals set to the modern world
with the focus of promoting the Religio Romana to the modern world in a
modern way. As this is a nation state and not merely a historical
society we must NEVER limit the business of any kind just as any other
nation/state would not. If any would like an example of this, the guess
would be to look at either the Mormons in Utah or the State of Israel---
both steeped in their own history but a part of totally MODERN society,
doing business and conducting life and catering to modern people. Do the
Mormons limit business contractions between themselves to 19th century
western ware?

My belief is that when Nova Roma limits itself to the only
historical or role-play SCA type of interests in any way, we also dash
hopes of the Religio Romana taking a serious step toward becoming a
respected path within world religions. We live in a modern world and are
modern people. Nova Roma is about ideals and a better form of
governmental system, along with the promotion and integration of the
Religio Romana. I understand concerns to the contrary as far as diluting
interest but I think that assessment is wrong. These ideals (the virtues
among others) are for a world wide audience of modern people and the
Religio Romana is a modern path based from ancient religion. I believe
that we have created/evolved the nation/state here to better serve that
interest while allowing everyone to participate within thier own
particular realms of interest/amusement. Business must be conducted and
funds acquired the same way as any other modern state. My view.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus
Senator

Subject:	Re: Building Bridges
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:47:58 -0700

I do apologize for raising such a question....but after rereeading your post
3 times....after scrutinzing the post...I needed to ask. I do thank you for
your honest and sincere post on this..and I once again, do apologize. My
response wasnt a direct attack on your integrity...but it was seeking a
clarifcation. based upon the paragraph you posted.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Consul

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Honored Consul;
>
> Sir: I cannot believe that you would ask such a question of me
> privately, much less over the onelist. Were you anyone but the Consul I
> would be forced to call you impertinent!!
>
> I took a great deal of trouble to explain that I had made a mistake,
> just as you once did. Your raising that topic again is either totally
> disregarding my feeling s on the subject, or an out and out attack on my
> personal integrity.
>
> I shall respond to your rather heavy habded question as follows:
>
> I have never raised the issue of your previous error, because I beliee
> it past with your apology. I am not sure why you do not allow me the
> same courtesy, particularly in the light of your early support for my
> candidacy to this office.
>
> If it comes to pass that I, Marcus Minucius Audens is no longer welcome
> in this organization by request of the organization as a whole, I will
> quietly take my leave. This is what happened before, and I was
> horrified to find out the person that so reviled me that day, lied to
> me. However, anything as insignificant as an election, appointment,
> opportunity or any other situation will never negate the friends that I
> have here, and only they and I know who they are. I see that I have one
> less than I thought.
>
> My political ambitions do not proceed ahead of the moment, as whether
> you are aware or not I am presently engaged in a campaign. I would not
> presume to the stupidity of considering some future office if I do not
> have the measure of my suitability in the eyes of the electorate, much
> less the questionable consideration of another man's plans.
>
> No I will not resign my citizenship for the point of a failed campign,
> faile appointment, failed opportunity,or any other reason except as
> indicated above; even if the point is administered by a member whose
> word is not worth the paper it is written on.
>
> Vale, Honored Consul
> Very Respectfully
> Marcus Miunicius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>

Subject:	Pompeii: Life in a Roman Town
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:42:52 -0700

Salvete!

This is an exhibit that will run in Los Angeles, California from 17
October through 9 January
at the Los Angeles County Musuem of Art. Here is the URL:

<a href="http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm" target="_top" >http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm</a>

This is the ONLY venue for this exhibit in the United States.
400 objects are in the exhibit, from common everyday items to works of
art.
Adult tickets are $15.00.
Groups of 20 are for $12.75 per person.
Become a member of LACMA and you get 4 tickets.

Phone number for tickets is
1-877-766-7344 which is 1-877-POMPEII

All this information is on the website that I have given the URL for
above.
(I'm trying to figure out a way that I can get to L.A. for this
thing. If I don't make it, I won't be the only Nova Roman to miss
it. [brackenrackenfracken] )

Bona Fortuna!

Valete.

C. Aelius Ericius,
Propraetor of California Provincia.

Subject:	Re: Pompeii: Life in a Roman Town
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:53:03 -0700

I forgot to thank the citizen who first posted the link that lead me
to this exhibit, I. Ovidia Luna, in a post back on 3 August. It was
an item from "Discovery" (Channel).

Thank you, Luna.

Di Deaque te ament.

C. Aelius Ericius
Propraetor of California Provincia

Subject:	Groma
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:56:09 -0700

This site is about the Roman surveying instrument, the Groom. I found
it on the LAMA site and am sending it on for anyone who might be
interested.

<a href="http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm" target="_top" >http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm</a>

C. Aelius Ericius