Subject:	Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	hadji hadji@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:53:01 +0100

Salve Ericius,

I would like to thank you for your responce to my note, but I am affraid
I can not agree with the "Novi Denarii" and would like to explain the
reasons I suggested "Novi Sestercii" :

- orifinally sestercii were silver coins too,
- sestercii were the nominals used for bank operations and perdominant
number of the state costs were calculate in sestercii, (probably till
the end of 2 cent.)
- the value of one sestercius during the reign of Marcus Aurelius was
very close to the modern value of 1USD. I mean the value compared to the
basic life needs (food and clothes) - western European price level,
- If we consider the weight of one Aureus at the beginning of Augustus'
reign to be about 8 gr, 22 K gold so it is about 12.6 gr 14 K gold. It
means one sestercius was about 0.126, 14 K gold. So, I would like to ask
you how much costs 0.126 gr, 14 K gold in your country now? Here it is
very close to the value of one USD.
- Modern Macedonian currency is also named "Denar" plural "Denari". The
common practise in former Yugoslavia was after any currency devaluation,
the new nominals to be introduced with the name "Novi Dinari" inspite of
the old "Dinar" who was still in market usage. So it is very possible
than in the case of devaluation Macedonian state bank will follow the
old tradition and will issue "Novi Denari" (with the very similar
written and vocal pronunciation) as potential NR "Novi Denarii".

But all thiese considerations are rethoric only and as Merullo says it
is more important NR business to work on than what kind of currency name
we will use in it (wow, I became tired of this complicated sentence).
So, you could use "Novi Denari" and I would reply to you in "Novi
Sestercii" but the meaning will be the same US Dollar.

Vale

Alexander Probus

Subject:	Texas Gathering (and not so TX)
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:38:42 -0600

Salvete,

We're about all moved in now and so we would like to invite Texas
Romans (or anyone who would like to join in) to our new home.
We are planning regular get togethers beginning Jan 1st, but if
anyone is interested in getting together before that, please feel free
to email us and we will see if we can't get something going before
then. Terry (and the rest of us here) loved little Iulia in Ft. Worth
and we would love to get together with you again. We also would
like to see Fimbra again.

No, you don't have to live in Texas. No, you don't have to dress
Roman (but the look on all the neighbors faces would be more than
worth it <G>). I am even willing to use some of the 10 or so
Roman recipes I have gathered to add a little authenticity. We
even have a Triclinium (sp?) -- sort of <G>. We also have sleeping
accomodations for 9 (and for infants <G>) if you're not up for
staying in a hotel. It's not the Ritz, but it'll do.

Contact us at <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=230166014180193192112218004036129208" >famromo@--------</a> / <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=174166082206158174112154175101114253071048139" >MaNPaRoman@a...</a>
(either one will work) if your interested. If not we will begin regular
get togethers Jan 1st and every 1st Saturday after that for anyone
who is interested. We are also seriously considering a special
weekend to mark the 1 year birthday of the Nova Roman Firstborn
<G>. That would be Feb 11-13 (Fri - Sun). It would be appropriate
if this became a Nova Roman event!! Then I am biased <G>.

Pax,

Gaius Iunius Placidius
Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Materna
Prima Iunia Terrelina
Marcus Iunius Posterious

Subject:	Re: Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:00:56 EST

Salve,

The thread of Nova Roman coinage comes up from time to time on the list, so I
thought it might help to post the original thoughts on the subject.

Subject:	N.E. Get-Together
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:26:58 -0500 (EST)

I am really sorry about that. I have been sending the infomation to
Cassius, and I assumed that you were being made aware.. My apologies!!!
Communication is the secret of the world, Cassius!!!! (grin)!!

There has been soem talk of getting together at Uxbridge, Mass in mid
December for perhaps a weekend. The location will permit both Olivia
Luna and I to spend Saturday night at home and return on Sunday. The
motel (Quaker Motel / Inn) is one that I have used before for
re-enactment annual meetings and such. They are nice peope and they
have a gathering room that we might use for a meeting room. They are
very nice people and the motel is moderately priced, and quite
comfortable.

I wanted a chance to meet some more of our Nr citizens and see those
whom I know once again, so I have been disturbing the airways for
sometime now trying to raise a litle enthusiasm

You are of course most heartily invited to whatever we put together, as
I indicated before. I am again very sorry that you have just heard of
this, as we were discussing it before the hospital scenario.

I hope that you will be able to make it, whatever we decide.

Sincerely;
Marcus Audens.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:36:02 -0500 (EST)

In regard to coinage, the tokens that are sed on the Newport Bridge
system are bronze and they are simply but stylishly made. They are
about the size of a quarter with a deep groove between the rim of the
token and a smal circular center. The center "island" is certainly
large enough for a single letter stamp of simple figure. Where do these
tokens come from, and would something like that be suitable for what we
are looking for?

Another idea for coinage might be stamping rounds out of sheet brass,
and marking them in some way with a die stamp. I had some rounds
stamped out of sheet brss in order to put together a Roman belt, and
there did not seem to be a problem doing it. I bring these ideas up,
simply to keep the thread going. You have probably looked into this
already, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re-enactment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 12:36:50 -0500 (EST)

I am a re-enactr in the U.S. who is active in several different periods
of re-enactment (French and Indian (Seven Years) War, War of North
American Rebellion (Revolution), United States Civil War, and the Roman
Legions. I am a member and elected Officer of Nova Roma (Roman Republic
Micronaton) and am interested in the idea of this new organization of
Historical Presentation. While I do not lve in England, I do two
different characters in 1st person relating to the British Military with
some small success;

--Royal Engineer of the 1860's;
--Black Watch Officer / Asst. Crown Engineer of the 177o-80's.

I also have the extreme honor to host the Sodalicum For Roman Military
Engineering within the Nova Roma organization.

I am responding to an announcement fro Dr. Michael Bishop of the
organization of yor new organization as well as some of your long-term
goals. I have some small skill at administration, and some small
experience with 1st person re-enactment (14 years, and would be
interested in learning more about your efforts, and perhaps be a part of
the organization with the possibility of organizing a similar effort i
the U.S. under the auspices of your leadership.

I thank you for your kind attention to theis message and I hope to be
considered in some small way a part of what you are trying to do.

Sincerely;
James L. Mathews..,

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: N.E. Get-Together
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:22:07 EST

In a message dated 11/3/99 11:30:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< There has been soem talk of getting together at Uxbridge, Mass in mid
December for perhaps a weekend. >>

Regarding any get togethers in the NE region, please keep me informed. I
have been hiding in the shadows lately because work has me extremely
preoccupied. So please put "Dex! Don't Delete" in the subject lines of any
e-mails you want me to read.

Thanks,

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
<Trying to avoid the daylight!>

Subject:	Re: Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	Alasdair Morgan Gunn amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:37:36 -0800

Avete!

Venator scripsit:

I've got my home shop cleaned and am working on projects again. I have the
instructions and tools necessary to make dies. The obstacle is, I have
never done it before, so I don't anticipate this to be a short term
solution. The process is actually fairly simple, and hand struck coins can
look good.

I'll add this into my project schedule and keep the list apprised of any
progress I make. I'll try working on a plain copper Nova Roman "penny."

In amicus - Venator

Subject:	Re: Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 15:38:41 EST

Salvete.
Regarding coin of the realm, it would certainly add to our credibility if NR
could issue money. However there is no way it can be done very cheaply.
Cheap reproductions would only reinforce the illusion that we are a
fly-by-night organization.
Cutting dies can be expensive. There is no reason, however, that once we
start to take in dues, that money can be set aside for this goal. Our coin
should be the equivalent of the US dollar in silver, whatever name we pick.
Later we can work on smaller coins, to give us the ability to "make change."
Once we do this several things must happen. The treasury becomes responsible
for the maintenance of currency, since we have to back up our currency with
precious material. That is why I suggested the slaving to the dollar. Next,
we must find an easy way to get the newly minted coins into circulation.
That may be harder to do then imagined. Finally we should have designs for
such underway now. Gens Fabii has several talented artists that are
available to do such work.
Even though we may be several years away from realizing this goal, the
planning should begin soon. I suspect it well take several years before a
design consensus is reached.
Valete
Q Fabius

Subject:	Re: Novi denarii/sestercii
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 16:31:09 EST

In --------ss--------d-------- 11/3/99 12:39:14 PM P--------ic St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:

Fabius:
<< Regarding coin of the realm, it would certainly add to our credibility if
NR
could issue money. However there is no way it can be done very cheaply.
Cheap reproductions would only reinforce the illusion that we are a
fly-by-night organization.

Cassius:
Quality was indeed one of the original concerns for Nova Roma coinage, which
is one of the reasons why "cast" coinage wasn't even being considered. Die
molded coins are sharp and clear. Surprisingly, *producing* coins from a die
IS a very cheap process, again costing something less than 20 cents per unit.
That bargain-basement price gives excellent quality since die stamping is
actually a quicker and less involved process than casting.

The problem once again is a mold. The company we were hoping to go with was
advertising a mold price of about $175 per side... but when it came time to
the actual order the price skyrocketed to over a thousand dollars per side.
Obviously their advertised die price was a gimmick. (However, their
production costs were consistent, about 17 cents per unit, minimum quantity
of 5,000 pieces, or $850 for a total run.)

Q. Fabius:
Cutting dies can be expensive. There is no reason, however, that once we
start to take in dues, that money can be set aside for this goal.

Cassius:
Hopefully we can collectively figure out how to do a couple of hand-striking
molds, as Venator has suggested. This would allow us to produce coinage
exactly as the ancient Romans did... an attractive idea.

Q. Fabius:
Our coin
should be the equivalent of the US dollar in silver, whatever name we pick.
Later we can work on smaller coins, to give us the ability to "make change."

Cassius:
I personally tend to be very leery of attempting full dollar value at
startup. The main reason for this is that dollar coins it would make
counterfeiting Nova Roma coinage an attractive prospect... one could make a
real profit from a forging process. Counterfeiting cheap coinage is *far*
more trouble than it's worth. (This is something that comes into play fairly
often in the antiquities world.)

But there are also other factors as well. Coinage is far more than just a
medium of exchange... it's a symbol and a means of advertising. This is one
of the reasons why the AS coin was so popular in the Empire... an emperor
could popularize ideas by minting lots of small denomination coinage and
spreading it all over the known world.
It's also the reason why the most popular Presidents are on the lower
denominations of US bills. We'd produce twice as many fifty cent value coins
as we could dollar value coins. We'd also make more money on each coin since
we'd be able to produce them in bronze rather than silver.

Q. Fabius:
Once we do this several things must happen. The treasury becomes
responsible
for the maintenance of currency, since we have to back up our currency with
precious material. That is why I suggested the slaving to the dollar.

Cassius:
Responsibility of the treasury is a major reason to produce lower
denomination coinage. With less possibility for fraud there would be less
chance of our currency being undermined... and the result of THAT would be
bankruptcy. By backing our currency to US currency we wouldn't be on a
precious metal standard either... a NR Novus Sestertius would be equal to 50
cents US no matter what the market fluctuation.

Q. Fabius:
Next,
we must find an easy way to get the newly minted coins into circulation.
That may be harder to do then imagined. Finally we should have designs for
such underway now. Gens Fabii has several talented artists that are
available to do such work.

Cassius:
Three coin designs are already complete and in fact HAVE been for about a
year and a half now, although the efforts of the Gens Fabii artists would no
doubt be a welcome addition. Circulating coins wouldn't be all that
difficult. The process would start by offering them through the NR website,
and perhaps even offering them to coin dealers as a collectible, etc. This is
one case where producing the product is more of a problem than marketing it.

Q. Fabius:
Even though we may be several years away from realizing this goal, the
planning should begin soon. I suspect it well take several years before a
design consensus is reached.

Cassius:
The pre-dictatorship Senate had already given the OK to the three coin
designs that have been waiting, but if we do find a means of production there
is no reason why the designs couldn't be reevaluated. If Venator is correct
and a proper hand-striking die can be made, there really isn't THAT much
problem with design. More than one die could be made and more than one
version of coinage could be produced. In ancient Rome new coin designs were
put out quite often and there was never a problem with more than one version
of any type of coin being in circulation at once.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator

Subject:	Re: N.E. Get-Together
From:	JusticeCMO@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:03:02 EST

In a message dated 11/3/99 11:30:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< There has been soem talk of getting together at Uxbridge, Mass in mid
December for perhaps a weekend. >>

Germanicus and I would dearly love any excuse to revisit Massachusetts.
Unfortunately the timing of mid December is unworkable for us, with family
and various holiday obligations.

Perhaps if a Spring gathering is arranged we will be able to make it then.

:) Serena

Subject:	DEX, READ THIS--DO NOT DISCARD!!!!!!!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:12:26 -0500 (EST)

To save some time and repetition, here is a copy of a message I sent to
Germanicus. It says about all there is to say at the moment. except to
say how welcome you would be, if it were possible for you to come!!!

Marcus Miunicius Audens


Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


The basic plan at this point t=is to meet in mid-December at Uxbridge,
Mass at a small motel just on the outskirts. Nice people, comfortable ,
and close by some nice restaurants. I suggested that the program should
be visiting and discussion of things NR during the day Saturday, dinner
Saturday night, maybe a few drinks in the rooms at a nearby roadhouse or
in the rooms--Olivis and I go home for the evenng and return in the
morning for Brunch. Visit / diiscuss (whatever) until about 2"00 - 3"00
P.M. and then depart fr home.

It is a bit of a drive for you, but I routinely g down to Wayne and
Mnmouth New Jersey for re-enactment events and do so without much of a
problem. I would like a chance to meet you and your lovely wife, so I
hope tat yo will be able to make it.

Marcus Audens,

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: getting together
From:	Jenni Hunt moonloon@--------
Date:	Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:00:50 -0500

At 12:09 AM 11/04/1999 -0000, you wrote:
>Salve,Omes ! Merlinia sends Greetings!
> Somehow I Missed something about meeting in Mass.;
>I'd love to go, but I cannot due to my work schedule-
>Nov.-Dec. and a little longer is a 7-day schedule.
>If there is any way you can set it up outside those months,
>I'd appreciate it.

Well, if there's enough interest, there's no reason why we can't do both,
right folks?


Jenni Hunt, a/k/a J. Ovidia Luna
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029233253185018190112158203026129208071" >moonloon@--------</a>
Sola Romana in Rhoda Insula, et amica bovum

Look for me on ICQ (#488714) and/or AIM (Mooonloon)

Subject:	Re: N.E. Get-Together
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 21:08:06 EST

Salve,

AH! Missed this. As long as you've found space this will work... I didn't
notice much of note in Uxbridge the last time I was there. It'll be a fairly
long way for Patricia and myself but we'll be able to make it. (Even though I
kind of wish there was a shop or site that we could take some time with!)

Vale,

Cassius


In a message dated 11/3/99 11:30:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<<
There has been soem talk of getting together at Uxbridge, Mass in mid
December for perhaps a weekend. The location will permit both Olivia
Luna and I to spend Saturday night at home and return on Sunday. The
motel (Quaker Motel / Inn) is one that I have used before for
re-enactment annual meetings and such. They are nice peope and they
have a gathering room that we might use for a meeting room. They are
very nice people and the motel is moderately priced, and quite
comfortable.
>>