Subject:	Re: Lex Crylla
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:29:14 -0000

Salve

>With your statement, I do not wish to argue, but realize there are only 4(I
>believe) Plebeian Senators; what happens if they are all currently serving
in
>office? What happens if one cannot serve the position for some valid
reason,
>such as illness, or any other extraordinary circumstances occur?
Nothing prevents the senate from raising a private citizens to senator,
right? =)

>It is my understanding that 'timelines' set by the constitution or Laws are
>not, by any means, unimportant. What has this to do with responsibility? If
>you are refering to the Senate acting promptly of it's own accord, it would
>be nice; however, I think past performance warrants a deadline.
No. I refer to responsibility of those who want to occupy an office.
Deadlines must be respected. I one wants to occupy an office, one must be a
candidate.

>I was planning on voting in favor of your initial proposal, but I cannot
vote
>for it the way it stands now; not as a citizen of the Plebeian class and
not
>as a candidate for Tribune. In fact, in it's current form, it goes against
>everything a Tribune of the People is supposed to protect.
I thank you for your honesty, nevertheless I disagree with your statement.
In fact I think my law can bring more motivation to future candidates as
well as guarantee the that there will be at least one Tribunus Plebis and
one Aedilis Plebis.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Tribunus Plebis



-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------;
To: amg <amg>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 5:31 PM
Subject: re: Lex Crylla


>In a message dated 12/05/1999 6:29:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
><a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> writes:
>
>Salve, Graecus.
>
><< 1st- 'Senator' must be more than a title. If one wants to serve as
Senator,
> he/she must be able to occupy any office as needed.>>
>
>With your statement, I do not wish to argue, but realize there are only 4(I
>believe) Plebeian Senators; what happens if they are all currently serving
in
>office? What happens if one cannot serve the position for some valid
reason,
>such as illness, or any other extraordinary circumstances occur? I just
think
>you are putting the Senate between a rock and a hard place. While I agree
as
>to the obligations of the Senate, I still think that you should at least
>place a clause that states if no Senator is able to take on the position,
>that the Senate may appoint a private citizen in his place. There is no
>reason not to insert something of this nature, and several reasons why it
>should be part of the law.
>
><< 2nd- In order not to make elections and candidacy timelines with no
> importance. Peple must learn to be responsible. >>
>
>It is my understanding that 'timelines' set by the constitution or Laws are
>not, by any means, unimportant. What has this to do with responsibility? If
>you are refering to the Senate acting promptly of it's own accord, it would
>be nice; however, I think past performance warrants a deadline.
>
>I was planning on voting in favor of your initial proposal, but I cannot
vote
>for it the way it stands now; not as a citizen of the Plebeian class and
not
>as a candidate for Tribune. In fact, in it's current form, it goes against
>everything a Tribune of the People is supposed to protect.
>
>Just my 2 sestercii,
>Vale.
>Gnaeus Tarquinius
>

Subject:	Re: Lex Crylla
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:50:53 -0000

Salve

Just to summarize...

I still think that you should at least
>place a clause that states if no Senator is able to take on the position,
>that the Senate may appoint a private citizen in his place.
There is nothing that prevents a private citizen from being chosen to occupy
the office. There are two ways:
1- Candidate him/herself to the office (this is the preferable way)
2- Be raised senator to be able to occupy the office after the elections.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: Proposed Nova Roma Outreach Program and Archives
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:28:53 EST

Salvete,

Many thanks for raising such issues, Marcus Minucius! I'm quite sorry that
your original Email regarding this got lost before I could reply.

The issue of promotion for Nova Roma has been a concern since the founding.
Its something that we were never able to quite get to... but the concept of a
magisterial "office" for coordinating promotion was at least brought up in
Senate conversation during the first year.

All the specific means of advertizing that Audens has addressed and more
should be attended to. However, most of them probably should be coordinated
officially in order to be effective. For instance, several of the concepts
here, (contacting radio, TV, etc) could be covered by something as direct as
an "Official Press Kit". Most organizations and corporations have press
kits, consisting of literature, articles, photos, and even videos... all
designed to catch the eye of people doing news stories. Shouldn't be too
impossible to do!

As far as advertisements/literature, this is again something that might be
best coordinated by the Senate if possible. NR is a complex place since we
try to keep a balance between all apects of modern Roman interest - so most
of our public info is best carefully worded so that it's not too political,
too reenactor focused, too religious or whatever.

My personal feeling is still that there should be an official "promotion"
position in Nova Roma, so that we can coordinate our efforts effectively.
Such an office could be the contact place for news media, coordinating
advertizing in magazines and internet newsgroups, etc.

Probably the only thing that MUST be left to Citizens would be individual
websites, although we could certainly offer advice. Also there might be
incentive for *doing* a Nova Roma related website... say more electoral
points or whatever they're called?

Valete,

Cassius







In a message dated 12/5/99 2:55:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<<
Salve, Citizens of Nova Roma;

I would like to propose a set of ideas to you for the purpose of
furthering the cause of Nova Roma Outreach in the real world. I think
that we can all agree that while the micronation of Nova Roma is an
interesting and facinating organization, one of our real problems, as I
percieve it at least, is that we as an entity are not known to a large
percentage of the world population. I postulate further, that as we
become better known a certain percentage of those who come to know us
will be interested in becoming citizens. In order to take full
advantage of our accomplishments to date, I would like to establish an
organization within Nova Roma entitled the Nova Roma Ourtreach Program
which would be the repository for all information relating to the below
ideas and any others offered to further this prospective project. I
visulize that the Nova Roma Outreach Program will devote itself to the
effort of making the world aware of Nova Roma. I have developed a few
ideas with which to begin this effort, and would ask that any member of
NR having additional ideas, would post them to me for addition to the
list. The ideas are as follow and can be furthered by any NR citizen
who wishes to engage in such activities:

--Contact your local library's and ask about the possibility of posting
NR brochures / posters. Look into posting such handbills on any public
forum such as Community Service, Senior Citizen Activities, and any
other municipal, or fraternal organization that promotes such
advertisement. Many large supermarkets have Bulletin Boards for the
benefit of thier customers. Please share unique ideas not mentioned
here so that the list may be constantly updated, with the Proposed Nova
Roma Outreach Program at <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045128014022121135028082190036" >jlm42@--------</a> untilt the Proposal should be
reviewed;

--Contact all local newspapers and ask for the requirements for
submitting public service letters to the newspapers, and then submit
letters of introduction to any and all within your area. Consider
sending a repot of your results to the Proposed Nova Roma Outreach
Program;

--Contact all radio stations in your area and discuss with them the
desireability and the feasabilty of having a representative of Nova Roma
give a short presentation on the micronaton as a public service to their
listeners. If you are successful, please try to get the stattion to
make you a tape of the presentation. Consider sending a copy of the
tape and a list of your efforts to the Proposed Nova Roma Outreach
Program Archives;

--Contact the Television Services in your area and ask if they would be
interested in something similar to the above radio program , only with a
face-to-face aspect and probably in period dress. If you are
successful, share your success with NR and where and when the activity
will be broadcast. Ask for a tape to be made of the activiy and
consider providing a copy of such together with a list of your efforts
to the Proposed NR Outreach Program Archives;

--Contact Local Schools and Colleges in order to determine their
initerest in NR with the idea of presenting a Roman Program to the
school, or for the possble recognition of the Classics Department of the
College of Nova Roma, as a resource of study for that institution. The
thrust of this activity would not only be a possible presentation, but
also the recognition of Nova Roma by a number of institutions. Those
who have made such contacts, Consider providing a copy of your efforts
to the Proposed Nova Roma Outreach Program and letting me add your
efforts together with the Institution and Contact Person for a thank-you
letter and inclusion in our archives;

--Those in NR who have the ability to create simple Web Pages, I would
ask that you consider making web pages to order on behalf of our various
provinces, in order to further advertise Nova Roma. I would further
request that the URL's of such an effort be posted to the Proposed NR
Outreach Program Archives;

--Those in NR who have a connection or "in" to organizations which are
similar to NR, try to acertain whether they would be willing to add our
brochures and advertisements to any and all newsletters that are
available, and consider sending such advertisements to the Proposed NR
Outreach Program Archives for a record of our activities in this area;

--Those among the NR Citizenship who are gifted with writing skills
consider designing a Nova Roma adverisement on a 3" x 5"post card, a one
liner for inclusion in a newspaper column, a larger one paragraph
advertisement for use with magazines. Consider sending a copy of the
advertisement to the Proposed NR Outreach Program Archives;

--Contact Book stores and Museums, and ask if NR may leave some booklets
or posters or both for the public's information which would be a booklet
describing NR (four or five pages), Those within NR having these skills
it is suggested might be willing to develop such for the purpose of
having a booklet to provide to bookstores, museums, Community
Facilities, Librarys, and any other similar institution willing to
assist us in getting the message out. Consider providing a copy of the
booklet and a list of institutions contacted to the Proposed NR Outreach
Program Archives;

--Put together a list of local (and not so local) events, activities,
expositions, and celebrations which would welcome NR as a participant
either as re-enactors or as a booth set up for public awareness and
service or both. Consider sending a copy of that list to the Proposed
NR Outreach Program Archves;

I offer this Proposed Program to the Citizens of Nova Roma for thier
input, and for thier determination of its worth. It has been voiced of
late on the one list that politics can be a bore and that some people do
not have time to review all the messages available concerning the
micronation. I would suggest however, that everyone is interested in
furthering the cause of an institution to which they belong and feel
strongly about, and further that there is room in the preceeding program
elements for all Citizens regardless of interest, time available or
location to make a positive impact for NR. If you have any questions or
comments regarding this post please do not hesitate to contact Marcus
Minucius Audens at <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045128014022121135028082190036" >jlm42@--------</a>.

Consuls, with Respect, I lay before you this idea to be considered as a
program, sodalitas, or other organizaton / institution for the benefit
of Nova Roma as you shall see fit. Should you approve such by whatever
designation that you shall agree upon, I would then take the position of
Director and appoint an Assistant Director, both of whom would be
subject to the supervision of NR, to maintain the Archives, and respond
to messages recieved, Reports of the progress of such an organization
would be filed in hard copy as well as tapes, books, etc. in archves
available to all NR Citizens The archves would be under my control and
held at my place of residence with an possible addition of the Program
and results attached to the NR Website, or another website linked to the
NR Website. The proposed organization would be open to all NR Citizens
with a desire to futher NR in the indicated ways or with regard to new
ideas which would be suitable to NR

I say in defensre of this proposal that Pro-Consul Julianus (Nova
Britannia Provincia) has approved an earlier version of this proposal
for use within the above Provincia. He has encouraged me to formallze
my ideas to some degree, and has indicated that the idea(s) have some
small merit. I therefore place this before you for your kind
consideraton, and possible approval.

Valete, Citizens Of Nova Roma, and Magistrates;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens;
Praetor et Senator;
Candidate For Consul

>>

Subject:	Re: Re: Proposed Nova Roma Outreach Program and Archives
From:
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:30:35 EST

In a message dated 12/6/99 7:29:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:

<< For instance, several of the concepts
here, (contacting radio, TV, etc) could be covered by something as direct as
an "Official Press Kit". >>
Salve Cassius.
Does NR have a press kit?
Vale
Q. Fabius.

Subject:	Re: ATTN- A New Sensible Proposal For Minimum Age Law
From:
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:50:54 EST

n a message dated 12/6/99 8:09:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034233091161146153033082190" >--------@--------&--------a> writes:
<< If not, the answer is very easy: our society EVOLVED, and 200 hundred
centuries gave us a lot of social changes and conquests, so that we could
never think to reenact some of the Roman uses. <<

Salve Lvcivs Annevs Lavrentivs
Since slavery was an off-product of conquest, and NR is a historical
organization dedicated to restoration of Roman mores and values (for me those
of the mid republic) I doubt there would every be slavery in NR.
The Paterfamilias concept is more complex. Women indeed have more freedom,
their status is very close to Patracians in the late republic and early
empire, though unless they were Vestals, they had little say in Roman
politics. Our NR is different.
Our women are encouraged to run for office. As you say this is because of
our 20th century sensibilities see nothing wrong with this, while the Roman
males of the republic would find this abhorrent.
I think the role of Paterfamilias needs to be better defined, and as NR
grows, I believe it will
Vale
Q. Fabius

Subject:	Re: commitment to NR
From:
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:05:53 EST

In a message dated 12/6/99 8:09:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034233091161146153033082190" >--------@--------&--------a> writes:
>> I'm 18 old now, and I'm happy to be citizen of NR and (at the moment) I
hope to stand for a long time as citizen; but I can't know at now if in 9
years (2008) I still will be an active member of this Republic: 9 years in a
man's life are a lot of time, and whoknows how many things will happen during
this time! <<
Salve Lvcivs Annevs Lavrentivs!
I admire your frankness yet I have to condemn it. If you honor the gods, and
spend a sensible amount of time here in virtual Rome, then you should still
be with us when you are 27. We are all in this for the long haul, otherwise
we all would have left when the Republic went through growing pains this
summer. This means that NR must become important in your life. And all the
other important people in your life, be made aware of this fact. If people
are joining this organization on whims, then we will have a whimsical
organization and never accomplish much.
The only way NR would close besides apathy, would be if we lost the Internet.
Then we would be no longer to communicate. We would remain Pagan though and
honor the gods in our own ways.
Vale
Q. Fabius.

Subject:	Re: ATTN- A New Sensible Proposal For Minimum Age Law
From:
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:46:44 EST

In a message dated 12/6/99 10:09:44 AM Central Standard Time,
&-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=034233091161146153033082190" >--------@--------&--------a> writes:

> Moreover we've to consider that our specific society of NR is a VIRTUAL
> community, that is we have some advantages and some disadvantagesas regards
a
> REAL society.

Thats part of my point too. If this was real Rome (or a landed community),
there would be alot more things to do, while in NR the only offices that
TRULY get things done are Consul and Praetor. I know some will disagree, who
believe that running a newspaper or selling small statues or...something is a
worthwhile job but personally unless it is truly advancing the Republic
noticably it isn't something I would want to do.

Subject:	Re: Eagle Subscriptions
From:	George VanDeWater <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=251166234193056045244038203219129208071" >VanDeWGe@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:11:55 -0700

Salvete Marcus Minucius Audens
Sorry I took so long in responding as I've been out of country for a while.
>>> James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> 11/22 12:01 PM >>>
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------br>
Salvete Citizens of Nova Roma:

This is a message of information for all ciizens interested in buying a
subscription to the Nova Roma Eagle. The subscription fee, which is
$12.00 annually, a change which was made several months ago by the
previous Eagle Editor, before I accepted the position, is the current
rate.

The fee rate for an Eagle subscription has unfortunately never been
changed on the Nova Roma website to reflect this new fee, and thanks to
my new Web Equipment installation in the last weeks, I made that
discovery, Since that time I have asked the Nova Roma WebMaster and the
current Censors to make that change.

The problem is that I have four checks for the previous rate ($5.00
annually) in my current possession. I will not name the individuals
herein, but as I am sure that you know who you are, please let me know
what you wish to do from the following option list:

--I will provide the remaining $7.00 for an annual subscription and
start that subscription with the November Issue of Eagle;

--Return my check for $5.00 and forget the whole thing;

--Send me back copies from August, September, October and credit me with
two more months of Eagle (November and December);

--Begin my five month subscription with the November Issue.

I sincerely hope that you will all continue with Eagle. I greatly
regret my inability to survey the Web-Page due to equipment break-up and
not find this gliche until just recently.

The November Issue of Eagle will feature the latest information about
the Religio Romano, announcements about the government actions taking
place in the last month, and a feature article on the structure of Roman
Houses in Roman Britain. A news feature of the new archaeology
discoveries in Alexandria, Egypt is also included. Get your
subscription in today, and be the first one on your block to read about
the wonders of ancient Egypt buried for centuries beneath the waters of
Alexandria Harbor!!

Valete, Citizens Of Nova Roma;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Editor, Eagle

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: ATTN- A New Sensible Proposal For Minimum Age Law
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:44:38 -0800

My comments at the end:

> >
> > > Moreover we've to consider that our specific society of NR is a
VIRTUAL
> > > community, that is we have some advantages and some disadvantagesas
regards
> > a
> > > REAL society.
> >
> > Thats part of my point too. If this was real Rome (or a landed
community),
> > there would be alot more things to do, while in NR the only offices that
> > TRULY get things done are Consul and Praetor. I know some will
disagree, who
> > believe that running a newspaper or selling small statues or...something
is a
> > worthwhile job but personally unless it is truly advancing the Republic
> > noticably it isn't something I would want to do.
>
> I find this attitude disturbing from a citizen and perhaps it explains the
> lack of candidates for many positions. What do you consider advancing the
> Republic? Only being consul? Let me tell you, we could not operate without
> many of the lesser positions that you scoff at and frankly, many of them
> are more important to the survival of Nova Roma than some of the senior
> positions such as praetor. You want to know why? Well to go over some
> of the positions you mentioned and others you did not:
> running the newsletter is important to
> Nova Roma because it is one of our main sources of income and it gives us
> a hardcopy product for people to judge us on.
>
> Selling statues (or trinkets you imply) is another way of raising money,
> vital to the survival of Nova Roma. Passing laws and issuing edicts is
> fine and dandy but you better make sure that there is a treasury to keep
> us afloat. This is where queastors come in, handling the treasury and
> disbursing funds.
>
> Possibly the most vital position in Nova Roma is webmaster, for Nova Roma
> would have no central means of communication and information and perhaps
> after that in importance is censor and consul. And don't forget list
> moderator, the vote counters, and regional governors. Yes, praetor does
> fit in there somewhere, though it is our vaguest position, with little
> defintion of its role and little for the bearer of the office to do.
>
> One cannot start at the top, you must earn your way up there. By
> serving in a lesser position, you gain experience, prove yourself to Nova
> Romans and SERVE Nova Roma, enabling Her to prosper. It isn't about what
> is fulfilling for us at the moment, it is about advancing the cause of
> Nova Roma. That my friend is where you miss the point.
>

Salve!

Let me also state that I started serving Nova Roma as Quaestor. I served
that position and let me state that position was more important for Nova
Roma than as Praetor (Praetor Urbanus). Every citizen, who has a desire to
serve, should begin in the lower offices. It is through those lower offices
that we, the magistrates, gain our experiences and grow as magistrates. I
am the first Nova Roman to successfully complete the Cursus Honorum in Nova
Roma, and I am extremely proud of that fact. I have, granted in less time
than in ancient Rome, held each of the offices that compose the Cursus
Honorum. While my time as a magistrate is reaching its zenith as Censor, I
will always do my part as patriotic citizen. I am proud to be a citizen of
Nova Roma. Every office in Nova Roma is vital in importance. As my
Consular Colleague pointed out, every office is important. During our terms
as Consuls, Decius Iunius and I, strove to restore faith in Nova Roma during
the months of uncertainty during late June through Mid July, while we hope
we made a difference, we both know that the work is not done, but at least
the recovery is in process.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla
Consul