Subject:	All the best!!
From:	danat@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:17:53 +1030

Salve,

I just wish to say have a happy Saturnalia/xmas or whatever tradition you
celebrate to all citizens of Nova Roma. Also have a great new year. I'll
talk to everybody after the festive period as I'll be away for a while. :-)
at the beach hopefully because it's very hot down here in Australia!!

Vale,

Marcus Arcadius Pius

Subject:	Re: "manifesto" for Provincia Nova Britannia?
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:00:20 -0500 (EST)

Hear Her!!! ;-) Hear Cassia Julianus, Quaestor and Keeper of the
Scroll Of Manifesto for the North East Provincia and the East Coast
Faction!!! ;-) Raise the Flags, Beat The Drums, Sound The Horns and
Wind The Flute ;-)-- Come to Your Feet Citizens of the East Coast
Faction ;-) to support the golden words of our Mentor and Holder Of
the Flame Of Truth, Justice, and the Nova Roman Way!!!!!!
(Double GRIN!!!!!! ;-) ;-) This is kind of fun!!!)

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: Stranger Than Faction
From:	Ira Adams iadams@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:31:21 -0600

Marcus Minucius! Have you been into the egg nog again?

:-)

Salve et vale,

Happy Whatever-You-Choose-For-A-Holiday!

L. Sergius Aust.


On 12/20/99 12:01 PM James Mathe--------<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>) --------e:

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>Salve Marius Merrullus;
>
>While your thoughtful words regarding factions are strangely riveting to
>this old and weary head, perhaps I could appeal to you for some slightly
>different type of a strike for recognition. A "Hunger Strike" seems so
>---well final as it were. (Grin!!!!!)
>
>Perhaps in honor of the importance of the general topic we could declare
>a ban on using deorderant, or perhaps no hair dressing will we
>undertake until our demands are met. It may even be that the East Coast
>Facton may refuse to use any derogatory references to any NR personages
>until our numerous demands (whatever they may be) are recognized,
>thereby confounding all those previous NR interested citizens who have
>determined that we are a group who use personal insults against our
>fellow members as a way of life.;-)
>
>The very magnitude of what could be used to further our aims by threat
>of our refusal to act or say or do in this vast variety of possibilities
>beggars the imagination, and certainly would result in the re-evaluation
>of the Hunger Strike, a very very barbaric and un-Roman-like
>consideration :-)
>
>Rally then to the barricades (such as they may be) my most honorable and
>Roman friends to defend the honor and integrity of the East Coast
>Faction against the slings and arrows of our erstwhile self-seeking
>opponents whose feet smell of vile odors of the grave (or simply not
>having been washed) and whose materfamilus grandis wore pugna
>caligula!!!!
>
>To Arms (an exercise in futility and humor for those who have not
>recognized the poor literary effort),
>Vale;
>Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	Re: Disagreements
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:01:00 PST

Oh Gods! How could I know that a naive novice's question about the parties
in NR would lead us to THIS! I'm sorry I asked.

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Disagreements
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:19:48 -0500 (EST)
>
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>Salvete Citizens;
>
>May I ask that in hopes of a more dignified presence than is now being
>exhibited on the Onelist, that you take your disagreements off-line!
>Anyone who has been involved with this net in the last few months knows
>of the emnity between you. No-one but you can change that, and I do not
>want to get into the middle of it at all. However, throwing comments at
>each other which sound like insults, character assassination and misuse
>of legal medical terminology is not in the best interests of this net.
>I ask most respectfully that you take your argument elsewhere.
>
>To say that I am not interested is not the truth, because as I have said
>I hope and pray that some bridge will be erected between you, but until
>that happens, your comments on this net are inconsiderate, unnecessary
>and offensive. I ask all of you so engaged to consider the other
>citizens of Nova Roma that have objected strenuously to just this kind
>of exchange.
>
>Respectfully and with regret;
>Marcus Minucius Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>

Subject:	Re: Re: Disagreements
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:10:44 PST

(if any newcomer is asking
>"what pages? what exchanges? what's an interregnum?", you're a candidate
>for the job of chronicler in my opinion)
>
>
>C Marius Merullus
>
Yes, I'd like to ask;-) what pages? what exchanges? what's an interregnum?
what's the Civil war? etc.

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

Subject:	Re: Re: Disagreements
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:15:01 PST

Again. Who the Hades are all these "constitutionists" and "legalists", and
all the others? Can someone clyrify it for newcomers?

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Disagreements
>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:40:09 EST
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
><a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
>
> Salvete C. Marius Merullus et al.
>
> << read the list archives, and, I think, asked some people some
> questions to figure out what ideas had been exchanged, then summarized
>his
> findings and put it on the website.<<
>
>I said earlier, I have been going through the volume of e-mail produced
>during the crisis, and have sketched out a rough outline for the addition
>to
>the "Annuals," (Tactius forgive me). Since I am a member of the Sullian
>faction, but neither a member of the constitutionists, nor the legalists, I
>felt I could bring perspective to the whole mess including the minor part I
>played. Also since I am a historian of reasonable merit, I can write
>coherently.
>
>About Crys & Sulla. In answer to Lucius Cornelius question posed to be in
>public I must say this. Since Crystillina agreed with most our desires
>concerning our faction goals here in Nova Roma, I would say she was a
>kindred
>spirit. But not once did she declare she was truly of our faction and I
>wouldn't expect a priestess of Juno to do so. I'm glad that Marius has
>reminded the warring parties of their dignatis to the rest of us on this
>list.
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>

Subject:	Re: Re: Stranger Than Faction
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:25:41 PST

How about we sponsor an East Coast Hunger
>Strike until the NR Senate agrees to strike the letter "y" from the English
>Language?
>
>Valete et ridete bene
>
>C Marius Merullus

That would be a big mistake!!!! Letter "y" is VERY Latinate, or more
exactly, Hellenic. Hands off letter "y" !!!
(I was joking;-))

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

Subject:	The Meaker Get-together
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" famromo@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:30:10 -0600

Salvete,

I would once again (perhaps the first time for some of you) like to
send out the reminder for the Meaker get together. It will be the
first Saturday of January (which will be January 1) at our home.
This invitation IS eclectic, IOW there will be Pagans and Christians
and people who don't care one way or another. This is about
fellowshipping and (perhaps more important) FOOD!!

We will begin this year with our entire family, so if you want to
meet the entire Meaker Clan, please email me and I will see if I
can't scare up our address.

Pax vobiscum,
Crys
Great OneLists <G>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/1LifeTeachers" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/1LifeTeachers</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/1PP" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/1PP</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/ANaturalSolution" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/ANaturalSolution</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/ArmedPagans" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/ArmedPagans</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/Many_Paths-2" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/Many_Paths-2</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/MenFinallyLoved" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/MenFinallyLoved</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/PaganMasterCook" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/PaganMasterCook</a>
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/TheMEANParent" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/TheMEANParent</a>

Subject:	A Civil Disagreement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:10:38 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Artem;

In partial and brief answer to your three questions, which I am sure
will also be answered by others more qualified than I, It was a Civil
Disagreement which resulted in the appointment of a Dictator, as our
Constitution provided for, who took charge of the government, wrote a
new Constitution, and made a series of decisions in regard to the
government of NR in order to put the government back on an even footing
again.

As you would imagine there were those who disagreed with the Dictator's
actions and those who supported him, and those who both supported some
of the actions and objected to others. There were essentially those
who, for a variety of reasons, had fallen out with the government prior
to the Dictator taking power and there were those who supported the
government in it's effort to manage NR properly, there were those not
too interested in the government at all, and finally there were those
who supported the government in some things but not in others. There
were identified groups on all sides of the question each with thier own
ideas on what should be done, and how it should be done. Those voices
raised in protest, on occasion grew angry, and factions were formed,
early factions were strengthened, and many comments were shared and
accusations made, which changed the face of NR significantly in the few
months that the Dictator was in charge. During that time "battle
lines", if I may use that anology, were drawn, many of which are present
today, people turned away from NR, some permanently and some for the
moment, while some felt they were forced away, but most stayed on to see
what could be done, for the idea of NR was still very strong upon the
bulk of the citizens.

However, on the brighter side, as the new NR emerged in many cases
former opponents came to realize that there were reasons for the actions
taken which were not at first apparent to all, and that all opponents
were not really evil people but rather reasonable people that could be
talked with and who had good reasons for their previous actions.
Friends among other factions were slowly formed, and with the "approval"
of the citizens of Nova Roma the new Constitution took effect, and NR
settled once again into a course of action which has brought NR to this
point in it's history. Do not be misled by thinking that all became
sweetness and light for such a supposition is not so, however, NR is
once again moving along, getting things done. This period however, gave
rise to the necessity of three elections in one year which sapped the
strength of the government, to some extent, and took it's toll on the
government's ability to restore normalcy to the micronation in full
measure. Some things were managed and done well, but probably less than
otherwise could have been expected. I hasten to remind all who read
these words that the efforts on behalf of Nova Roma are for the vast
majority, those of a secondary nature as all have jobs at which they
work, and those who volunteer for positions of responsiblity often have
only a limited amount of time to donate.

This perod of conflict is sometimes referred to as "The Civil Wars".
That there were negative comments and accusations, actions and voices on
many sides it is true, but as all things do, this period passed slowly
but inevitably. I have kept my comments in this chronicle general, as
there are still strong feelings in NR about this period, and I wish to
raise no more hackles than absolutely necessary. You will understand
that the details of this period are still very sensitive to many
citizens.

Merullus in his appeal for someone who was not involved in this conflict
to ask questions, and view what happened and then write a history of
"The Civil Wars" made a good call as a dispassionate reviewer would be a
fresh breath of revelation in all liklihood. Q.Fabius Maximus has
apparently already begun such an effort from his archives, even though
he was present. He has, as he has said, however, no small skill as a
writer and historian. I, for one, shall look forward to reading his
review.

In recent weeks this period has been discussd over again, and in
identifying the various groups both real and imagined, individuals have
chosen descriptive words which fit thier idea of what occurred but do
not always fit the view of the "other sides." Hence a variety of labels
have been created which even to those who were here during the
"conflict" may not be fully recognizable. As in a military conflict, no
one person knows all of what is going on, but rather at best, only that
which has happened in his / her sphere of influence or activity and then
not always with absolute accuracy. Memories slip and what happened when
it happened sometimes get confused. People make errors in judgement,
and mistakes in both personal and public activities and those errors and
mistakes are not easy to admit, discuss and bring into the open. I know
whereof I speak, as I have made my share.

I hope that this brief and very incomplete explanation, inadequately
stated and poorly chronicled will provide some small insight into your
questions. Be assured that others will be eager to fill you in further.

A word of caution my friend, as you move further into this maze, as you
undoubtably will. As you have seen recently, there are strong feelings
here, and many are still raw wounds from the "Wars." I ask that you be
gentle in your inquiries and non-judgemental in your observations.
There is no need to again raise the specter of "Civil War" because of
incautious curiosity. As a member of NR you certainly have the right to
know something of her history, but you should realize there is a cost to
the older citizens in providing that information.

To the citizens of Nova Roma, this missive was begun to answer a new
member's questions. My memory and my antecedents are not any more
infallible than the next man's and if I have made any statements which
violate your beliefs about the conflict which I have described, I do
apologize as such is not my intent. I fully expect to be followed by
comments, corrections, and updates to my remarks and that is totally
satisfactory with me.

Vale;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Disagreements
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:08:24 -0500

Salvete Q Fabi et alii

I for one would be interested in reading your write-up of the
Impeachment/Interregnum matter. I would hold it in the same regard as the
opinions of other citizens who were present and prominent in NR at the time.

Surely you recognize, however, that you hardly enjoy the unbiased
perspective that a relative newcomer would have on those events.

You do recall, don't you, that you made a speech in the forum shortly before
the Interregnum regarding the failure of the government to form the tribes
and centuries? I would not attempt to prove or disprove the effect, or lack
thereof, of your speech on the opinions and attitudes of the magistrates and
senators of NR, but I hold the power of your words in high enough regard to
realize that you might very possibly have contributed to the events of the
Impeachment/Interregnum, by virtue of that speech alone, even assuming that
you were not busy canvassing magistrates and senators on the issues that
were the subject of that speech.

You're not the only one who saves everyone's posts, you know :).

In light of this, your write-up simply does not have the objectivity needed
for an addition to NR's annals, in the style that the work was undertaken by
M Martianus Gangalius. Wouldn't it seem odd to you, that a man elected
consul in the very same year as the Impeachment/Interregnum, would become
the official NR historian of the events of the Impeachment/Interregnum?

Let's have a newcomer do it. Anyone who has the inclination can write
whatever they want, and, as I said, I'd love to read your version of the
events, I'm sure that it will add to my comprehension of what happened. But
it's not for the annals.

Valete

C Marius Merullus


-

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
>
><a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
>
>I said earlier, I have been going through the volume of e-mail produced
>during the crisis, and have sketched out a rough outline for the addition
to
>the "Annuals," (Tactius forgive me). Since I am a member of the Sullian
>faction, but neither a member of the constitutionists, nor the legalists, I
>felt I could bring perspective to the whole mess including the minor part I
>played. Also since I am a historian of reasonable merit, I can write
>coherently.
>

Subject:	Re: Disagreements
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:44:53 -0500

Salvete Aule Artori et alii

Check out the onelist archives first. Whatever is missing there can be
obtained from people who have been here for a while -- like Q Fabius and me,
for instance, but plenty of other people too. I mention the two of us
because we seem to share the sickness of saving everything that comes into
our inboxes.

Valete

C Marius Merullus


>From: "Artem Kouzminyk--------4; <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=224212113078159153036161203004129208071" >ural_liz@--------</a>
>
>>
>Yes, I'd like to ask;-) what pages? what exchanges? what's an
interregnum?
>what's the Civil war? etc.
>
>AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE
>
>LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST
>

Subject:	Re: A Civil Disagreement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:51:23 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Marcus Arcadius Pius;

You are probably correct, but as Merrullus said so elequently, people
will write about what they wish, and as another member of NR has stated,
they wil say what they will say regardless of what the "government" has
to say about it. Te topic here is freeedom of speech, both written and
spoken. The hope is that individual members will see in and of
themselves the damage that they do to others,themselves and to NR by
intemperate comments on a public list. However, legislation of such
privilages is futile, as we have seen and probably undesirale as well.
Much of what went on in that perid is very sensitive to some, but to
others less affected it was merely curious. Nova Roma since the day I
joined has been a series of thoughtful polite people, who have treated
me very well and with consideration to rebellious people who seldom have
a good word to say about anyone, and all in between. The real skill
here is to try an understand the majority, value extremely those of like
nature, and try your best to serve those of unlike nature.

There may be other and more effective ideas to deal with this internet,
but so far that is the one that works best for me.

Vale;
Marcus Minucius Audens


Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	ATTN: Graecus is out for the Saturnalia
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:55:22 -0000

Salvete omnes

Today I depart for Saturnalia holidays with my beloved wife. I won't have
access to the Internet until - in worst case - January 3. I wish you a merry
Saturnalia and Agon Solis (December 25). Have also a happy New Year.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Magistratus et Pontifex

Subject:	Re: Disagreements
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:56:42 -0500

Salvete Aule Artori et alii

No, not really. Rather, a newcomer or newcomers will have to sort it out
for themselves, and us old folks too. The word "disagreement" is a pretty
good summary of Nova Roma history to date, and, as the direction of this
thread yesterday showed, the people who were here for it, whether they "did
it" or not, cannot sort through it objectively enough to provide an
explanation for posterity, or you.

I encourage you to explore our history, and do so with patience, tolerance
and objectivity. Ask tons of questions, take each answer and measure it
carefully together with all the rest. No harm will come from such an
exercise, except of course you'll never recover the time that you invest in
the process.

Valete

C Marius Merullus


>From: "Artem Kouzminyk--------4; <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=224212113078159153036161203004129208071" >ural_liz@--------</a>
>
>Again. Who the Hades are all these "constitutionists" and "legalists", and
>all the others? Can someone clyrify it for newcomers?
>
>AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

Subject:	Re: "manifesto" for Provincia Nova Britannia?
From:	"RMerullo" rmerullo@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:05:07 -0500

Salvete Cassia et alii

Hmm, not bad. I think it compares favorably with the Communist Manifesto.

I don't know whether it's possible to demand respect, but hey, let's try! I
stand ready to discard my switchbladeesque portable comb -- just say the
word Fellow Factioneers!!! Respect the East Coast, or get a neverending bad
hair day!!!

Valete et ridete bene

C Marius Merullus


>From: Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
>(Continuing in the satirical style of my Nova-Britannian countrymen, but
>feel free to take it seriously if you like):
>
> 1. We demand that people act civilly toward one another within Nova
>Roma, respecting one another as people before engaging in otherwise
>healthy debate on issues of importance, and recognizing the importance of
>maintaining their own honor and dignitas through regular demonstrations
>of courtesy and kindness.
> 2. We demand that everyone be free to worship in the religion of his
>or her choice, or in no religion at all.
> 3. We demand that the respect of the voters be given first to they
>who have done the most to advance the educational, cultural, financial
>and/or spiritual goals of Nova Roma, rather than they who have argued the
>longest and loudest.
>

Subject:	Re: A Civil Disagreement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:29:56 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Marcus Arcadius Pius;

You may rest assured that the "Disagreement" hangs over us all as a
reminder of what can happen. No one in his right mind wants to bring
back a Dictator, even though Germanicus did a great deal of work for NR
in his tenure at that position. Further no-one wants a disruption like
that eperienced before. Much has been done to prevent a repetition of
such, and more is in the works. Tempers are cooling somewhat, and some
who left are returning. We will not be as we were, but we will be
better for the experience, even though I would have waived the
privaledge had I had the oppotunity to do so.

I think that the best cure for this is to choose an interest and get
invoved in it and involve others. By doing so, you interest yourself in
the institution that you have chosen to honor with your presence, you
meet other people, and you strengthen Nova Roma. Do not hold to grudges
about fancied injuries, and deal at least politely with all, to the
degee that you can. I thnk you will find your time here much more
ejoyable and profitable as a result. If you are at a loss as to what to
turn your efforts to, I have an idea or two if your are interested.

Vale;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Re: Disagreements
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:57:20 EST

In a message dated 12/21/99 6:15:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=224212113078159153036161203004129208071" >ural_liz@--------</a> writes:

<< Again. Who the Hades are all these "constitutionists" and "legalists", and
all the others? Can someone clyrify it for newcomers? >>
Wait until the "History is released." It has little to do with present day
NR.
QFM

Subject:	Re: Re: Disagreements
From:	SFP55@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:23:35 EST

In a message dated 12/21/99 8:14:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:

<< You do recall, don't you, that you made a speech in the forum shortly
before
the Interregnum regarding the failure of the government to form the tribes
and centuries? I would not attempt to prove or disprove the effect, or lack
thereof, of your speech on the opinions and attitudes of the magistrates and
senators of NR, but I hold the power of your words in high enough regard to
realize that you might very possibly have contributed to the events of the
Impeachment/Interregnum, by virtue of that speech alone, even assuming that
you were not busy canvassing magistrates and senators on the issues that
were the subject of that speech. >>
Salve C Marius Merullus!
As I said I had a small part in it. The speech was my attempt to break the
log jam, and anymore background to it you will have to wait to read. Let's
say the timing was unfortunate.

>>Let's have a newcomer do it. Anyone who has the inclination can write
whatever they want, and, as I said, I'd love to read your version of the
events, I'm sure that it will add to my comprehension of what happened. But
it's not for the annals.<<
No, I disagree. First off I was forwarding information via Crystillina's
back alley after the main website went down. So all e-mails from both sides
came through me. As a former newsdirector of a radio station, I switched to
reporter mode, and saved everything written that day.
Next the Praetor Urbanus Scaevolia was kind enough to send me all his
correspondence with the censors & the results of that correspondence.
Finally Cassius & Equitius engaged in that memorable debate several months
later and filled in much "in between the lines." As for a Consul not being
able to write a history, that's nonsense. Fabius Pictor wrote a very good
one on the Punic Wars that Livius later drew on while writing his history.
If someone wants to do that later, for his history, then he is welcome to do
so.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject:	Disagreements & Histories
From:	Diana Aventina diana_aventina@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:00:33 -0800 (PST)

Save iedereen,

Just a comment:
I have been on this list since about August and September
and ever since the first day, I have been reading little
remarks and digs between some citizens which are usually
preceeded by "I don't want to start up the arguments again
but".....

For a few months, I have been both wondering--and not
caring-- what this was all about.

I think that you should ALL just stop making
comments/references about whatever it is that happened. It
only succeeds in making newcomers ask questions and then
you stir up the bickering again.

I don't think that anyone should write the "annals" of what
happened. The people involved will read it and begin to
scream "That's not what happened!!" and then it all begins
again....

And because no one on this list knows me and I am alone in
my country as a Nova Roma citizen, I hope that all of you
will realize that I have said the above only in the best
interests of Nova Roma (and not for the benefit of any
"faction").
May your Gods bless you during this holiday season and all
year long!
Diana
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Yahoo! Shopping: <a href="http://shopping.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://shopping.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Re: Augurs
From:	GregTheRed@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:33:49 EST

Salvete,

Are there any augurs in Nova Roma? If there are, could somebody
please tell me how to contact them? I am in dire need of an augury.


Tiberius Augustulus Claudius
paterfamilias Gens Augustula

Subject:	Re: Joining
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:14:31 PST

Salve!

AFAIK, the names NRomans choose are usually original ancient Roman names,
that can be found at URL <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html</a>. So
Josephus and Australius do not seem to be Roman;-). You can use Australius
for a additional cognomen, as SARMATICVS in my name.

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

&g--------om: Che Monro &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=230128020180175135050082190036" &g--------ir--------..&l--------&g--------fon--------r> >Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Joining
>Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:59:30 +1100
>
&g--------om: Che Monro &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=230128020180175135050082190036" &g--------ir--------..&l--------&g--------fon--------r> >
>Salve!
>
>I figure that since I have common interests with the group, and since
>various members have given so generously of their time to answer my
>questions, I should join the group...
>
>Anyway, I wanted to ask about names.
>
>I was thinking of calling myself:
>
>Josephus (one of my middle names) Something Australius
>
>Or should that be Australicus or Australianus? :)
>
>Does anyone know a good Gens to join? I suppose I could always start
>Monronius... Monrovius? *Crosseyed look*
>
>Any comments welcome! *blithely*
>
>Che
>
>You have been flirting with Che Monro - The infamous Internet Flirt!
&g----------------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=230128020180175135050082190036" &g--------ir--------..&l--------&g-------- &l--------href="h--------//www.geoci--------.com/Paris/Cafe/2079" --------e---------------- &g----------------/www.geoci--------.com/Paris/Cafe/2079&l--------&g--------fon--------r> >
>

Subject:	Re: Disagreements & Histories
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:31:18 EST

On 12/21/99 2:00 PM Diana Aventina (<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176113185158237169037163101249089000144044067209130152" >diana_aventina@--------</a>) wrote:

[SNIP]
>I don't think that anyone should write the "annals" of what
>happened. The people involved will read it and begin to
>scream "That's not what happened!!" and then it all begins
>again....

Mea sententia, you are exactly right about this. Any recounting of the
story/myth will disturb the equilibrium by offending one party or
another. The more objective and factual the reporting, the more people
will be disgruntled by it because it won't support their own pet
contentions and beliefs.

I doubt that anyone will listen to pleas that they not indulge themselves
in creative writing at the expense of the peace on this list, however.
Perhaps we could all agree not to rise to the bait when it appears?

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Joining
From:	Anita Megas amgunn@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:52:06 -0600

Ave!

Artem Kouzminykh wrote:
>
> From: "Artem Kouzminyk--------4; <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=224212113078159153036161203004129208071" >ural_liz@--------</a>
>
> Salve!
>
> AFAIK, the names NRomans choose are usually original ancient Roman names,
> that can be found at URL <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html</a>. So
> Josephus and Australius do not seem to be Roman;-). You can use Australius
> for a additional cognomen, as SARMATICVS in my name.
>
> AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE
>
> LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST
>
> VALETE IN PACE
>

Or, you could do as did I. I "Latinized" my Asatru Faith name.
Hence: Piperskegg UlRsson Veithmathur becomes Piperbarbus Ullerius
Venator,
both meaning Pepperbeard son/descendant of Uller the Huntsman

In Amicus - Venator

Subject:	Re: Joining
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:14:35 -0600 (CST)

Salve, Che! Heilsa, Veni!

>> AFAIK, the names NRomans choose are usually original ancient Roman
>> names, that can be found at URL
>> <a href="http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html" target="_top" >http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html</a>. So
>> Josephus and Australius do not seem to be Roman;-). You can use
>> Australius for a additional cognomen, as SARMATICVS in my name.
>
>Or, you could do as did I. I "Latinized" my Asatru Faith name.
>Hence: Piperskegg UlRsson Veithmathur becomes Piperbarbus Ullerius
>Venator, both meaning Pepperbeard son/descendant of Uller the Huntsman
>
>In Amicus - Venator

Another approach, for those willing to do a little homework, is to pick
a gens for which you feel an affinity; find out which Praenomina (first
names) were in use by that gens, taking the one you like best; then ask
yourself what your nickname would have been if you could have picked
one--by looking it up in a Latin dictionary, you should come up with a
Cognomen that suits you. As far as I know, 'Lucius Marius Fimbria' was
not a recorded historical personage; but the name is one that could
quite conceivably have been given to somebody in the Marius clan. (I
got 'Fimbria' for my magnificent bangs; it means 'hair worn in a
fringe'.)

Yours under the Eagles,
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka Märia Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'

Subject:	Re: Joining
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:01:47 PST

>Or, you could do as did I. I "Latinized" my Asatru Faith name.
>Hence: Piperskegg UlRsson Veithmathur becomes Piperbarbus Ullerius
>Venator,
>both meaning Pepperbeard son/descendant of Uller the Huntsman
>
>In Amicus - Venator

OK, but how to "Latinize" 'Che Munro'? AFAIK it is impossible.

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE

Subject:	Re: Disagreements & Histories
From:	"Artem Kouzminykh" ural_liz@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:40:14 PST

Salve!

OK, but have new Nova Romans right to know the history of their new country,
to know of that factions, wars, disagreements, interregnum and dictatorship
you are talking all the time? I believe that I'm not the only one who will
ask questions. Perhaps Che Munro will be the next?.. No, some kind of the
annals are needed... May be both (or there were more than 2 of them?:-))
sides will write their points of view on that has happened (briefly) and
share it in the List (or better send it privately to newcomers)?

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE

LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST

VALETE IN PACE


>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Disagreements & Histories
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:31:18 EST
>
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>
>
>
>On 12/21/99 2:00 PM Diana Aventina (<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176113185158237169037163101249089000144044067209130152" >diana_aventina@--------</a>) wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
> >I don't think that anyone should write the "annals" of what
> >happened. The people involved will read it and begin to
> >scream "That's not what happened!!" and then it all begins
> >again....
>
>Mea sententia, you are exactly right about this. Any recounting of the
>story/myth will disturb the equilibrium by offending one party or
>another. The more objective and factual the reporting, the more people
>will be disgruntled by it because it won't support their own pet
>contentions and beliefs.
>
>I doubt that anyone will listen to pleas that they not indulge themselves
>in creative writing at the expense of the peace on this list, however.
>Perhaps we could all agree not to rise to the bait when it appears?
>
>Vale,
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>
>
>certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
>(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
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Subject:	Re: Re: Augurs
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:19:24 -0800

Salve!

You can s--------an --------il to <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> (to Ericius),
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116025056228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> (to Germa--------s) a--------o <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=114056131009152219130232203140129208071" >dexippus@a...</a> (to
Dexippus) They can help you.

Sulla

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=244212192108059125184229163208114253071048139" >GregTheRed@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=244212192108059125184229163208114253071048139" >GregTheRed@--------</--------;
>
> Salvete,
>
> Are there any augurs in Nova Roma? If there are, could somebody
> please tell me how to contact them? I am in dire need of an augury.
>
> Tiberius Augustulus Claudius
> paterfamilias Gens Augustula
>
>