| Subject: |
The First Edictum of 2000 |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:16:19 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
It is with great pleasure that I, Flavius Vedius Germanicus, issue the first
magisterial edictum of 2000 (or perhaps I should say 2753). In my capacity
as Proconsul of the Media Atlantica provincium, I hereby appoint Lucius
Equitius Cincinnatus as Legatus for the regia of Maryland and Virginia. I am
confident that he will be a wonderful organizer and point of contact for
Nova Romans in and around the Washington, D.C. area, and I look forward to
working with him.
See you all at Roman Days!
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: The First Edictum of 2000 |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 00:04:17 -0600 |
|
Ave Germanicus! Salve Cincinnatus!
Vivat! Vivat! Vivat!
Vale - Venator
Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote: (snippage)
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Proconsul - Media Atlantica provincium
> Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus,Legatus - regia of Maryland and Virginia
>
|
| Subject: |
Happy New Year! |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 05:16:16 EST |
|
Salvete, quirites!
At the start of a new year a Roman would observe a careful ritual to ensure
success
in private and public affairs. The first words spoken on rising, the first
actions performed within the household would be happy & uncomplaining.
Laurel & saffron around the lintel or burning on the household altar will
bring luck. As the year started so it would continue. Romans would visit or
receive friends, well wishing gifts would be given and gotten, honey, dates,
& figs representing sweetening for the coming year.
Then it was off to work. As it is with me. I wish both Praetors Urbanii to
call on me (via e-mail) at their earliest convenience.
I and Marcus Municius Audens will next lead the virtual procession of the
Senators and Equites to the virtual temple of Iuppiter Best & Greatest,
(<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS</a>) where at 12:00 PM PST we will
sacrifice (not a white ox alas) but a white rat for the good of the Republic.
Simple times call for simple gestures.
I will burn on my household altar, saffron & laurel (from Sensibilities
Aromatherapy, I promised the mention in return for free herbs). We have no
sacred chickens to eat grain, and we have no meal to sprinkle the rat with.
I can only hope the God realizes that we of Nova Roma are trying our best
with limited resources but have only the correct intentions. If all of you
at 12:00 PM PST would recite a simple prayer to the God to watch over our
small republic this coming year, I and my fellow consul would most appreciate
it.
Fortuna watch over you & our Republic!
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus,
Seniores Consul
Nova Roma
Post Scriptum
(For those who may be squeamish about that rat's fate. Don't be. First it
is a lab animal, so it would be destroyed no matter what. Second, I was
first in my class in dissection at UCSD Matthew's campus for premed, so my
cuts will be sure and true. The rat will not suffer. I do worry about
possible internal damage caused by whatever experiment the rat was subjected
to, however. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
No, I'm not a reader of the auspices. However I know undamaged and
unblemished organs when I see them. That will be my guide. I'm using Cato's
invocation to the God. It will be English. Not everybody in the Republic
speaks Latin. That will change one day I'm sure. But not now. I'm sure
Iuppiter Best & Greatest understands English. He has had a Millennium to
learn. )
>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Happy New Year! |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 09:36:35 -0600 |
|
Salvete Honored Consul!
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------; wrote:
>
> (snippage)
> I and Marcus Municius Audens will next lead the virtual procession of the Senators and Equites to the virtual temple of
> Iuppiter Best & Greatest, (<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS</a>) where at 12:00 PM PST we will sacrifice (not a white ox,
> alas) but a white rat for the good of the Republic. Simple times call for simple gestures.
> (snippage)
> Fortuna watch over you & our Republic!
> Valete!
> Q. Fabius Maximus,
> Seniores Consul
> Nova Roma
>
Beneditus!
May your hands be as sure as your intentions are pure!
May All the Holy Ones of all Romans watch over and accept the Full
Sacrificial Offering in the Spirit to which it is intended!
May the New Year bring nothing but Good Fortune to Nova Roma!
May the New Year bring each and every Citizen current and future,
nothing but Vigorous Health and Bountious Prosperity!
May the interaction of our individual intellects, personalities and
faithways meash for the good of the People and Governance of Nova Roma!
Vivat the People! Vivat the Senate! Vivat the Magistrates! Vivat
Vivat Vivat the New City!
In Amicus - Venator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Happy New Year! |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:37:33 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Fabius Maximus;
While I agree that your plans for the NewYear's ceremony are necessary
and I do not question your research, I ask that for the moment you will
exclude the blood sacrifice. It was my understanding that during the
last year discussion of the necessity and desirability of blood sacrifce
was not in any way determined to be a determined idea among the
citizens. I ask you please to consider my request, based on my own
uncertainty of the desirability of this action and also with objections
already received as a result of your appeal to the citizens.
I certainly bow to your greater knowledge of Religous Ceremony, but I
must ask that you provide me with a longer period of time than a few
hours in order to consider your plans and prepare myself for these kinds
of events. I am fully willing to accompany you on your virtual
procession and render to the Gods Of Rome that which is their honor and
due. However, I am unwilling to participate in a blood sacrifice when
the greater part of my understanding for the time that I have been in NR
indicates that such is not the desire of the people. I request that the
College of Pontiffs rule on the use of blood sacrifice in State
Occasions before we procede with such.
I ask that you consider carefully my request that we may carry out this
ceremony in joint harmony and in joint reverence as the Gods of Rome
expect.
Respectfully
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: the year 19100 !?! |
| From: |
Matt Haase haase@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:08:54 -0600 (CST) |
|
> That is what the year is showing as in the chat room.
> Beseen might not be Y2K compliant,
> but it sure is Y192K compliant.
It's a common error that we'll be seeing a lot of... I got caught by
this one myself.
Unix systems represent time internally as the number of seconds since
01/01/1970 GMT. This is very simple and reliable and is the reason that
they're relatively unaffected by y2k problems.
However, this sort of time isn't particularly useful for display
purposes, so it is usually converted into a "struct tm", a structure
that has multiple fields for second, minute, hour, etc.
The tm_year field is defined as the current year, minus 1900. In the
past, it would always be a two-digit year that is found in there:
70 through 99. But now, that field contains 100 (current year minus
1900).
A programmer who wants to display a two-digit year would do it in
either of two ways:
tm_year
tm_year % 100
The first of these expressions now produces '100', which is basically
useless. Thus dates like 99/12/31 are followed by 100/01/01 instead of
the more proper 00/01/01.
If a four digit date is called for, it should be tm_year +1900.
Printing a 19 and then the raw value of tm_year is extremely shortsighted...
M. OCTAVIANUS GERMANICUS, geek.
--
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) | "They that give up essential liberty
konoko Network Consulting | to obtain a little temporary safety
Graveyards of Chicago: | deserve neither liberty nor safety."
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> | - Benjamin Franklin (1759)
|
| Subject: |
on the meaning of sacrifice |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:32:19 EST |
|
Salvete quirites,
While I am reluctant to start out the new (Common Era) year with
controversy, I must ask that our magistrates consider what sacrifice
means when proposing to carry out a religious ritual.
Sacrifice means offering up something valued by the one making the
offering. In an agrarian-based society such as Roma Antiqua, to offer up
a bull at the altar of Iuppiter was to give up something of very great
value. Is the slaughter of a discarded lab rat a meaningful equivalent of
the offering of a bull by our ancestors? I think not.
If the essence of the sacrifice lay in the simple-minded act of killing,
then the killing of a rat might be the functional equivalent of the
killing of a bull. But is the killing what the gods desire of us? Isn't
meaningful sacrifice, the offering up of something valued by the
worshiper, what all deities expect from their wroshipers?
I think we need to distinguish between sacrifice and killing, and it is a
_sacrifice_ that should be offered to the God. Killing a valuable animal
was one form sacrifice took in the ancient world, but it is not the only
form of sacrifice.
Even the Jews, for all of their holding to their ancient traditions, long
ago quit slaughtering animals on their altars.
I think (without intending to offend anyone who may be a practitioner)
that only very primitive religions still carry out blood sacrifices (and
national governments, of course, which remain very primitive).
I ask you to let your sacrifices be real and meaningful, and not be hung
up on the ghastly romanticism of the act of killing, which could also
have some very nasty effects on Nova Roma's relations with the rest of
the world.
What says the College of Pontifices about this?
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribune of the Plebs
in ullam rem ne properemus.
(Let's not rush into anything.)
|
| Subject: |
Auguri! |
| From: |
Jordi A Reus jordireus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 10:56:09 -0500 |
|
Congratulations on your nupta. You will be moving from pater familia to
manu mariti, always a special and joyous occassion. A Roman wedding?
This may sound extreme, but in early Roman culture the bride would cut
her hair and wear a headpiece ornamented with seashells, which was very
reminiscent (or perhaps the precursor of) the Vestal Virgin initiation
ceremony.
I am new to the list. My name is Jordi Reus i Estrany. I do not know
much about your community, but I am a lover of Ancient Rome. I come from
one of Rome’s provinces, Tarraconensis, and I speak the dialect of Latin
known as "català." My wife, Maria, is from Reggio Calabria. She speaks
a dialect quite similar to mine as well as to that of the true Italian.
May the new year bring wonderful blessings from the gods!
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
<a href="http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj" target="_top" >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj</a>.
|
| Subject: |
Re: the year 19100 !?! |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 09:39:15 -0800 |
|
Salve, M. Octavianus!
Thank you for the informative post. I guess what you have elucidated is what
the regular figuring out circuits in my Mark-I brain said for explanation, but
it is very helpful to get the inside explanation.
Gratias tibi ago, M. Octavianus Germanicus, geekus.
Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius
Matt Haase wrote:
> From: Matt Hu--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
>
> > That is what the year is showing as in the chat room.
> > Beseen might not be Y2K compliant,
> > but it sure is Y192K compliant.
>
> It's a common error that we'll be seeing a lot of... I got caught by
> this one myself.
>
> Unix systems represent time internally as the number of seconds since
> 01/01/1970 GMT. This is very simple and reliable and is the reason that
> they're relatively unaffected by y2k problems.
>
> However, this sort of time isn't particularly useful for display
> purposes, so it is usually converted into a "struct tm", a structure
> that has multiple fields for second, minute, hour, etc.
>
> The tm_year field is defined as the current year, minus 1900. In the
> past, it would always be a two-digit year that is found in there:
> 70 through 99. But now, that field contains 100 (current year minus
> 1900).
>
> A programmer who wants to display a two-digit year would do it in
> either of two ways:
>
> tm_year
> tm_year % 100
>
> The first of these expressions now produces '100', which is basically
> useless. Thus dates like 99/12/31 are followed by 100/01/01 instead of
> the more proper 00/01/01.
>
> If a four digit date is called for, it should be tm_year +1900.
> Printing a 19 and then the raw value of tm_year is extremely shortsighted...
>
> M. OCTAVIANUS GERMANICUS, geek.
>
> --
> Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) | "They that give up essential liberty
> konoko Network Consulting | to obtain a little temporary safety
> Graveyards of Chicago: | deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> <a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> | - Benjamin Franklin (1759)
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Oath of Office for Iulia Ovidia Luna |
| From: |
Jenni Hunt moonloon@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:10:26 -0500 |
|
I, Iulia Ovidia Luna do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Iulia Ovidia Luna swear to honor
the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Iulia Ovidia Luna swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the
State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would
threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Iulia Ovidia Luna swear to protect and defend the Constitution of
Nova Roma.
I, Iulia Ovidia Luna further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Aediles Plebis to the
best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Aediles Plebis and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Jenni Hunt, a/k/a Iulia Ovidia Luna
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029233253185018190112158203026129208071" >moonloon@--------</a>
Pontifex, Aedilis Plebis of Nova Roma, Legate of RI Regio
Sola Romana in Rhoda Insula (et tamen amica bovorum)
Look for me on ICQ (#488714) and/or AIM (Mooonloon)
|
| Subject: |
The Rat will live! |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:15:16 EST |
|
Salvete!
After being informed by Lucia Maria that blood sacrifice was disallowed here
in Roma, I will offer a libation of a bottle of Mumms to the God. I'm sorry
to cause such an uproar, I didn't know about this decision.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Apologies |
| From: |
Jenni Hunt moonloon@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:17:47 -0500 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I wanted to let everyone know that I have been pretty much out of touch
lately, as I have a serious illness. I have been online only sporadically,
and then, mostly deleting anything but personal email from friends. If you
have something which requires my attention, please be sure to note such in
the header and allow several days for a reply.
Hopefully this won't last for long. :-(
Jenni Hunt, a/k/a Iulia Ovidia Luna
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029233253185018190112158203026129208071" >moonloon@--------</a>
Pontifex, Aedilis Plebis of Nova Roma, Legate of RI Regio
Sola Romana in Rhoda Insula (et tamen amica bovorum)
|
| Subject: |
Re: on the meaning of sacrifice |
| From: |
JustiniaCassia@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:18:41 EST |
|
As an anthropologist, I have to agree with Lucius Sergius Australicus (and I
won't even jump on him for the use of the word "primitive" -- that's not the
point here).
Killing an animal has a different meaning in the modern world than it did in
cultures of the past. Most of us don't slaughter our own livestock, nor do
we even buy live animals from the market. There have also been several
hundred years of raised sensitivity to the need to treat animals humanely.
While we are attempting to revive and rejuvinate ancient culture, we have all
still lived our lives in the present, and I think it would be difficult to
ritually kill an animal without the act being contaminated, even
subconsiously, by a flavor of cruelty (this, of course, does not apply to
those who have grown up in cultures that practice religions like Santeria or
Vodoun).
I also agree that a discarded lab rat does not have the same worth, now or in
ancient times, as a fine bull. A greater experience of sacrifice would occur
for most folks if they set fire to a pile of twenty dollar bills. Now that
would take sacrifice!
On a personal basis, I find it somewhat disturbing to realize I've joined an
organization that would condone animal sacrifice. I had assumed that would
be up there with slavery & the subordination of women as institutions best
discarded.
Justinia Cassia
In --------ss--------d-------- 1/1/0 11:32:38 AM, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------; writes:
<< From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
Salvete quirites,
While I am reluctant to start out the new (Common Era) year with
controversy, I must ask that our magistrates consider what sacrifice
means when proposing to carry out a religious ritual.
Sacrifice means offering up something valued by the one making the
offering. In an agrarian-based society such as Roma Antiqua, to offer up
a bull at the altar of Iuppiter was to give up something of very great
value. Is the slaughter of a discarded lab rat a meaningful equivalent of
the offering of a bull by our ancestors? I think not.
If the essence of the sacrifice lay in the simple-minded act of killing,
then the killing of a rat might be the functional equivalent of the
killing of a bull. But is the killing what the gods desire of us? Isn't
meaningful sacrifice, the offering up of something valued by the
worshiper, what all deities expect from their wroshipers?
I think we need to distinguish between sacrifice and killing, and it is a
_sacrifice_ that should be offered to the God. Killing a valuable animal
was one form sacrifice took in the ancient world, but it is not the only
form of sacrifice.
Even the Jews, for all of their holding to their ancient traditions, long
ago quit slaughtering animals on their altars.
I think (without intending to offend anyone who may be a practitioner)
that only very primitive religions still carry out blood sacrifices (and
national governments, of course, which remain very primitive).
I ask you to let your sacrifices be real and meaningful, and not be hung
up on the ghastly romanticism of the act of killing, which could also
have some very nasty effects on Nova Roma's relations with the rest of
the world.
What says the College of Pontifices about this?
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribune of the Plebs
in ullam rem ne properemus.
(Let's not rush into anything.)
>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Happy New Year (?) |
| From: |
Marius Fimbria legion6@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:27:51 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve, Quinte Fabi Consul (Congrats!):
><< I thought we had forsworn public animal sacrifice. >>
>
>Salve!
>Did we? I didn't know. I remember some discussion about it on the
>list but I thought it was never resolved. Thanks for informing me.
The question has come up a couple of times on the NovaRoma List, and
once (that I recall) on Pythia's Religio List. And every time the
officials of the Religio Romana have hastened to assure us that (a)
blood sacrifice is not a mandatory component of private worship, and
(b) that it *will not* be used in public worship/ceremony due to the
potentially-catastrophic public-relations backlash.
Consul Audens, Tribune Australicus and I still await the Collegium
Pontificium's official ruling on the subject; but that is how these
debates have always hashed out.
I can respect what Venator does; when he has to slaughter one of his
cattle for beef, he first dedicates the animal to the Gods. But I
believe Australicus has a very good point in what he says about the
difference between 'killing' and 'sacrifice'. The thing to be
sacrificed (whether animal, crop, a commitment of time or a correction
of habit) has to be worth something to the person performing the
sacrifice. Any life that can be so casually-dismissed as that of a lab
animal is likely not worth much to the Gods either.
>Vale QFM
In amicitia et fides,
************************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
mka Märia Villarroel |\=/|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Roman Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
and Citizen of Nova Roma ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman... It's hard work, _|_| / _/_| /`(
but SOMEbody's gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Rat will live! |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 10:33:01 -0800 |
|
Good for Lucius Marius Fimbria.
Fabius, I would have expected you, of all people, to have remembered
all
that has blown through this list since you've come along. This bloody
debate
(pun intended) was so recurring and drawn out I would have expected
you
to have caught at least part of it.
There is still the point of the quality of the sacrifice you intended
that will
probably be kicked around. A bottle of pricey booze would be more
of a sacrifice than a surplus rat. (Remember to Sacrifice a
significant portion
of the hooch. Maybe read the pattern of bubbles for the augury - not
easy this-
Be cool) BTW, researchers at UC traced the white rat and mouse gene
back to an island shrine of Apollo.
Good luck on your year as Consul
C. Aelius Ericius
Augur et Pontifex
Senator of Nova Roma
Paterfamilias gens Aelia
Post-propraetor of California and Nevada.
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Rat will live! |
| From: |
SFP55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:39:59 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/1/00 10:33:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< BTW, researchers at UC traced the white rat and mouse gene
back to an island shrine of Apollo.
>>
Salve, Senator
Yes, I remembered that much. About the debate, no I really don't. However,
that was a busy time for me. But don't fear. Our noble Pontifex Maximus is
quickly bringing me the knowledge.
Vale
Q Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Oath of Office - Praetor |
| From: |
"Gary E. McGrath" garymac@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:41:58 -0500 |
|
Salvete Good Citizens of Nova Roma,
In accordance with the policies and procedures of Nova Roma, below
find my Oath of Office:
I, MARCUS IUNIUS IULIANUS (GARY ERNEST McGRATH)
DO HEREBY SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO UPHOLD THE HONOR
OF NOVA ROMA, AND TO ACT ALWAYS IN THE BEST
INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE AND THE SENATE OF NOVA
ROMA.
AS A MAGISTRATE OF NOVA ROMA, I, MARCUS IUNIUS
IULIANUS SWEAR TO HONOR THE GODS AND GODDESSES
OF ROME IN MY PUBLIC DEALINGS, AND TO PURSUE
THE ROMAN VIRTUES IN MY PUBLIC AND PRIVATE LIFE.
I, MARCUS IUNIUS IULIANUS SWEAR TO UPHOLD AND
DEFEND THE RELIGIO ROMANA AS THE STATE RELIGION
OF NOVA ROMA AND SWEAR NEVER TO ACT IN A WAY
THAT WOULD THREATEN ITS STATUS AS THE STATE
RELIGION.
I, MARCUS IUNIUS IULIANUS SWEAR TO PROTECT AND
DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF NOVA ROMA.
I, MARCUS IUNIUS IULIANUS FURTHER SWEAR TO FULFILL
THE OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE OFFICE
OF PRAETOR TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES.
ON MY HONOR AS A CITIZEN OF NOVA ROMA, AND IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE GODS AND GODDESSES OF THE ROMAN
PEOPLE AND BY THEIR WILL AND FAVOR, DO I ACCEPT THE
POSITION OF PRAETOR AND ALL THE RIGHTS, PRIVILIGES,
OBLIGATIONS, AND RESPONSIBILITIES ATTENDANT THERETO.
May the Gods and Goddesses help me keep this, my solemn oath and may
they look favorably upon our great Republic.
Vale,
Marcus Iunius Iulianus
Praetor
|
| Subject: |
Re: The Rat will live! |
| From: |
Cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:30:29 EST |
|
In --------ss--------d-------- 1/1/00 1:17:14 PM E--------rn St--------rd Time, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246157057089235135169082190036" >SFP55@--------</--------;
writes:
<< After being informed by Lucia Maria that blood sacrifice was disallowed
here
in Roma, I will offer a libation of a bottle of Mumms to the God. I'm sorry
to cause such an uproar, I didn't know about this decision. >>
Salvete,
I applaud Q. Fabius Maximus in his decision!
The subject of sacrifice has come up more than once in Nova Roma, and it is
understandable that Q. Fabius was uncertain of the decisions regarding the
issue. Hopefully all Citizens will understand that Fabius was motivated by
both Pietas and a sense of Roman tradition.
The College of Pontiffs has been opposed to sacrifice being included in the
Public Rites. Sacrifice is a divisive issue even among pagans, and is of
course a foreign subject to the private religions of many Nova Roman
Citizens. There were many other acceptable forms of making offering in the
ancient Roman world in any case.
My sincere thanks to ALL involved with this issue!! This could have been
potentially explosive, instead we've worked through an issue equitably. This,
more than anything, is an auspicious omen for the coming year! :)
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Happy New Year (?) |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson amgunn@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:35:34 -0600 |
|
Avete Omnes, et Salve L. Marius Fimbria!
Marius Fimbria wrote:
>
> (snippage)
> I can respect what Venator does; when he has to slaughter one of his
> cattle for beef, he first dedicates the animal to the Gods. But I
> believe Australicus has a very good point in what he says about the
> difference between 'killing' and 'sacrifice'. The thing to be
> sacrificed (whether animal, crop, a commitment of time or a correction
> of habit) has to be worth something to the person performing the
> sacrifice. Any life that can be so casually-dismissed as that of a lab
> animal is likely not worth much to the Gods either.
>
> In amicitia et fides,
> ************************************************************
> Lucius Marius Fimbria
>
Actually, I do consider the deer which I hunt to be the wild cattle of
my patron UllR, which he is most generous to gift me, if my hunting
skills are up to the test. I do spend time in preparation and have for
the past decade given Blot (sacrifice) to UllR before, during and after
the season. Before for Luck, during when I am successful and after in
thanksgiving for the food with which I shall feed my family during the
winter.
If I may suggest something which IIRC is "period" usage? How about
burning an effigy of a white bull? The leader of the sacrifice can put
some resources, monetary, time and effort, into making the effigy, then
it will have value - and be suitable?
In Amicus, under my Troth to UllR and the other Holy Ones - Pierbarbus
Ullerius Venator, who also cooks what he kills ;-{)
|
| Subject: |
Re: Roman wedding |
| From: |
thomas.h@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:40:47 +0100 |
|
> Salvete omnes!
>
> As a few of you may already know, Cassius and I became engaged
> (sponsa)
> at Saturnalia. We are, naturally, thinking of holding a Roman
> theme
> wedding. In addition to expressing a historical interest we share,
> this
> will also provide a natural outlet for our Pagan impulses without
> unduly
> upsetting our non-Pagan relatives.
>
> Can anyone suggest books or Web sites that will help us with the
> details
> of the ceremony, clothing, food and so forth? We do plan to skip
> the
> sheep sacrifice and the dowry payment...
>
>
>
> Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
Salve,
My uncle Caius Anneus Lucanus Otho has already once performed a Roman
wedding, so I think that he might be able to help you some. His e-mail
is <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=165128214237056116225056203208129208071" >olhaenzi@--------</a>
so you might try asking him for some advice.
Many happy years together, Tiberius Anneus Otho
--
E-mail for everyone! <a href="http://www.bluemail.ch/" target="_top" >http://www.bluemail.ch/</a> powered by the blue window
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: The Rat will live! |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 12:11:06 -0800 |
|
Cassius wrote:
> This could have been
> potentially explosive, instead we've worked through an issue equitably.
True.
> This,
> more than anything, is an auspicious omen for the coming year! :)
Most true.
I think the Consul Fabius has provided us with the auspices for the year
in this unexpected way. This is the same type of "divinatio" that decided the
Romans to stay in Roma after its destruction by the Gauls.
C. Aelius Ericius.
Augur et Pontifex.
|
| Subject: |
Blood Sacrifice |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:46:27 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Justina Cassia;
In regard to the subject item, I hope that the exchange of E-Mails this
morning has shown you that Nova Roma and the Collegio of Pontiffs does
not condone the public sacrifice of animals at State Ceremonies. The
personal practices of indviduals has always been above and beyond the
reach of secular and relgious law, and probably unreachable in any way
at all save for an appeal to the individual situation. Anthing else
could only be construed as a gross invasion of privacy and as such will
not be considered by the present government, or I suspect in an
officious way by the Pontiffs.
I hope these words have helped in some small way, and I hope that you
will continue to enjoy your time here in NR. There are many wonderful
people here, and they are well worth knowing better.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Consul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Apologies |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 15:50:17 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Jenni Hunt;
I am very sorry to hear of your illness, and my prayers go with you for
a speedy and complete recovery. As your nearest "nieghbor" if I may be
of any assistance please do not hesitate to ask.
Vale, with a Prayer for your well-being;
Marcus Audens
Consul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
de Kalends Ianuarius |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 14:04:49 -0800 |
|
Salvete.
I thought I would send in this selection from H. H. Scullard's entry
on the consuls taking office on this day.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius
Augur et Pontifex
Senator of Nova Roma
Paterfamilias of gens Aelia
from Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic by H. H. Scullard
(Cornell University Press, Ithaca, NY/1981; 1982 Second printing)
On the Kalends of Ianuarius.
[begin quoted material]
In early times consuls entered office at various dates, but at least
from 153 bc 1 January became the fixed date. ...
The consul's first duty was to observe the auspices: the phrase
‘auspicari magistratum'was the equivalent of entering a magistracy
(inire magistratum). A solemn business in early days, this had become
a mere formality, if not something of a farce, by the late Republic.
...
With the favour of heaven thus secured, the consuls then put on their
purpled-bordered togas (praetexta) in the privacy of their own homes.
... Thus arrayed, each consul then received formal visits (salutatio)
from senators, friends and clients. Thereafter, preceded by his
lictors marching in single file, he set out in solemn procession,
escorted by his supporters, the senators behind and the Equites in
front. The processions of the two consuls then presumably met,
perhaps on the Via Sacra in the Forum, and together they began to
climb up the Capitoline hill. The people, suitably dressed for the
festive day, crowded around. At the Aequimelium, an open space on the
lower slopes of the hill above the Vicus Iugarius, where in Cicero's
day there was a market for lambs used in household worship, the
procession was probably joined by the sacrificial animals. Then in
the confined space before the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus the
consuls took their seats on their official ivory chairs (sella
curulis), probably placed conspicuously on a tribunal (‘et nova
conspicum pondera senit ebur': Ovid). There they received public
acclaim. Then each in turn sacrificed to the god a white bull, in
payment of vows for the safety of the State made a year before by the
previous consuls ....
Thereafter the senior consuls summoned a meeting of the Senate on the
Capitol and laid before it first religious and then secular matters.
He announced the date of the feriae Latinae and then moved on to such
questions as the distribution of the provinces. With this business
completed, the consuls were escorted home by the whole Senate (‘toto
comitante senatu': Ovid), and a solemn but cheerful day ended.
Our picture of the day is slightly blurred because the specific
action of each consul is not always made clear. Though they had equal
authority, for practical reasons they often divided some of their
functions either by agreement (comparatio) or by lot (sortitio).
Generally however, they acted on the principle of rotation, which
assigned the adminsitration and the IfascesI (the lictors' bundles of
rods) to each consul for a month at a time. One was the maior consul:
this probably meant not the elder of the two, but rather the man who
had been elected first (in the electing body, as soon as a majority of
voting-groups (centruiae) had recorded their vote for a candidate, his
election was announced, and then the voting continued in order to
decide who his colleague woule be). Thus the maior consul started the
year by taking priority in January. Hos this affected the inaugural
ceremonies is uncertain. Each consul may have taken his own auspices
and then may have been visited by his own friends; alternatively, one
consul may have taken the auspicies on behalf of both. No doubt they
processed together (if side by side, no problem about the arrangement
of the lictorsand fasces would arise) and then say together . Each
shared in the sacrifice, but possibly only the senior man ... summoned
the Senate and took the initiative in its business. Both consuls gave
their names to the year in which they held office, but in the Fasti,
the lists of consuls from the beginning of the Republic, the name of
the maior consul came first.
[end of quoted material]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Blood Sacrifice |
| From: |
Jordi A Reus jordireus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 17:22:10 -0500 |
|
First, I wish a speedy recovery to Jenni Hunt. Que tinguis bona salut i
rebis bon cor ben aviat, germana meva.
Second, I will research the Nova Roma website on Monday to learn more.
Last, regarding animal sacrifice, I am very much pleased with the
suggestion of burning a pile of $20s as sacrifice. That would, in my
understanding, be quite appropriate for sacrifices where we are asking
for something. Of course, not all sacrifices are for desiring something.
Sometimes, sacrifices are for expressing love or admiration. Among my
people, the Catalans, we sacrifice once a year. We choose a pig,
originally a wild boar but around my father’s time large sows have become
more commonplace. It is a regular market-place sacrifice, and a butcher
is present. All of the townspeople contribute in some way to the
preparing and the cooking of the animal. The pig represents fertility
for us, and we eat every part of it in the same spirit that we would kiss
and taste our lover: i.e, to have a part of it inside us. The sacrifice
is quick and painless and far more humane than the typical conveyor-belt
slaughtering performed for most of the meats we eat in our modern
society. It is a tradition I often think about because I enjoy the day
of the feast immensely though I am an avid animal lover and
environmentalist. I enjoy the socializing that takes place in the feast,
and though fewer and fewer younger people partake in it (they prefer the
temples of Discotheques), there are still a number of young people that
will continue the tradition in the smaller towns. At the very least,
the recipes will be kept alive for another century or so.
My point though, is that in our minds, this sacrifice is not a prayer
request nor is it a sadistic ritual to inflict and observe pain in the
animal. This sacrifice has more in common with the yearly sacrifice of a
turkey that my wife and I observed takes place in the New World. For the
Saturnalia Feast, which in Catalonia coincides with a newer one called
Nadal, in which is celebrated the New Year as well as the birth of a
Hebrew man, we also perform another sacrifice. It is a lamb which we
cook and prepare for a family meal. Unlike the pig we sacrifice at the
Summer Solstice, this sacrifice is not intended for a public event but
rather a private one, at the hearth, with only intimate family at the
table.
May I suggest that if there occur social gatherings of Nova Romans,
doesn’t the meal you share with one another qualify as a benevelont
sacrifice of brotherhood and love?
I am relieved to hear that animal suffering is not something that occurs
among the Nova Romans, and I hope my sharing with my perspective of
"sacrifice" , something that is still very much "alive" in my modern
culture, shows that the modern Thanksgiving Dinner is indeed a parallel
to the more common sacrifices of thousands of years ago. We were too
poor to waste food. The burn offerings, where food is indeed not
consumed and therefore seems wasted and additionally takes on the air of
cruelty and brutality, is more accurately expressed in our society by
burning a pile of $20s or I daresay $100s. In the New World, with all
its riches and abundance, killing any animal can hardly qualify as a
sacrifice, no matter how appropriately dressed we are for the occasion.
We keep alive the traditions of Ancient Rome, we are attracted to Ancient
Rome and it’s ideals of equality and democracy. I don’t think any of us
are attracted to the negative aspects of Ancient Rome, nor do we wish to
keep alive the brutalities that occured. We wish to see the original
government of Rome, and/or the benevolent government of Augustus, not the
tyrannies of Caesar. In other words, we extract the good we learned from
the culture. Similarly, in sacrifice, we must extract the true essence
of sacrifice, which we see has nothing to do with animals at all, but
with sacrifice. With giving up what is dear to show sincerity or put
sobriety in a society that might be taking life for granted. Sacrifice
must inspire contrition and make us better people. Since I believe none
of us are starving, killing any animal is not a valid sacrifice and the
Gods would become furious at us and punish us.
The Gods will be far more pleased with us if we offer the sacrifice of
caring for the animals and caring for the land that we depend on. In the
agricultural past of my people, that was the point. In the technological
present of my people, we abandon the nonsense aspect and hold on to the
benevolent, which is what the Gods have been hoping to see in us for
milleniums now.
________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re:Blood Sacrifice [post from Reus] |
| From: |
Razenna razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:16:57 -0800 |
|
Salve, Jordi A Reus.
I am greatly impressed by your post. Your insights and
interpretations are
much in agreement with my own and those of other in Nova Roma, as well
as being almost a summation of the discussions that have transpired on
the
subject of sacrifice over the course of Nova Roma's history.
I believe I have seen your name on posts before, yet you did not
include a
Roman name on your post. I do hope you have joined Nova Roma, we
can use people like you.
The favors of the Gods and Goddesses be with you and yours.
Bene Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius
Paterfamilias of gens Aelia
Augur & Pontifex
Senator.
|
| Subject: |
Hello |
| From: |
Jordi A Reus <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045233091150082209184168000248155208071048" >--------ireus@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:02:32 -0500 |
|
Thank you Senator,
I am not sure yet what it means to join Nova Romans, but I will learn to
the best of my ability and hope to contribute postively, otherwise I will
simply remain silent and continue learning.
This is my third post here. I am a subsriber to other onelists, but they
are all Catalan and Italian lists. Perhaps you have seen my name in
those?
I did not choose a Roman name because I have not decided on one yet.
Also, I wished to introduce myself with my family name to show that
though I appreciate the government and protection Roma offers, and I wish
to learn from the great Roman thinkers, I am still only a Laietan, a
citizen of the Llobregat valley where L'Ebre River flows. My heart, my
language, even my future is Roman, but my blood is Celtic, Laietan and
Iberic. Jordi does mean "of the earth/farmer", the Italians would say
"Giorgio" and the Greeks would say "George" and it means the same thing.
I confess I am not familiar enough with the language of my Senator to
know how to properly write my name in Latin.
Deu vos guard.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
<a href="http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj" target="_top" >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj</a>.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Hello |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 19:49:36 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Jordi
Your background and ancestory is quite satisfactory for NovaRoma. My
background is also Celtic (Scots, Irish and mostly Welsh), but I am
servig Nova Roma as a student and admirer of the Roman. Senator
Ericius' comments ring very true, and you have a very balanced view of
some ideas which are inherent to the Roman Culture. I hope that you
will choose a Roman Name, and will join us. There are several Gentes
that would be glad to have you as a member, so when you are ready, do
not hesitate to announce your wish to join us and we shall do our best
to accomdate you.
Welcome to Nova Roma!!!
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Consul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Festival of Amburbium |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@--------) |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 21:49:29 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salvete, Citizens of Nova Roma;
(Consul Marcus Minucius Audens is seated in the Curile Chair in the
Forum, dressed in his Consul's Toga) The Consul speaks to those who
have come to listen:
"By the authority granted to me by the Citizens and Gods / Goddesses of
Nova Roma I hereby. in the ancient way, proclaim the Festival Of
Amburbium!!!! Make your preparations now Citizens for this most
auspicious occasion in the month of February. Be prepared to honor Nova
Roma with your prayers, hymns and sacrifices of purification. Poets be
generous with your arts and glorify your ancient city in the finest
words of your mother tongue as well as the Gods and Goddesses who watch
over her. Painters be liberal with your drawings and colors to portray
your home in the lights and lines that please these Gods and let flow
from all your mouths the cleansing phrases of your faith and devotion to
the Gods, to the city and to Nova Roma"
Note:---The Festival of Amburbium was a movable festival whose date of
occurance in February was announced by the Consul on January 1st. It
appears to have been held to purify the City of Rome and it involved a
procession around the city, accompamied by prayers and sacrifices.
Reference:
Roy T. Adkins, "Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome."
Vale, Citizens of Nova Roma;
Respectfully;
Marcus Mnucius Audens
Consul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Oath of Office, Curator Differum |
| From: |
Decius Iunius Palladius amcgrath@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:28:55 -0500 (EST) |
|
Lex Iunia de Iusiurando
I, Decius Iunius Palladius (Arthur F. McGrath III) do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Decius Iunius Palladius swear to honor
the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Decius Iunius Palladius swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana
as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that
would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Decius Iunius Palladius_swear to protect and defend the Constitution
of Nova Roma.
I, Decius Iunius Palladius further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Curator Differum (Eagle Editor) to the
best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Curator Differum and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
|
