| Subject: |
Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:00:34 -0500 |
|
Salvete Tite Labiene et alii
:From: &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=034166250009056116130232203056129208071" &g--------bienus@--------&l--------&g--------r>
:
:
:Why bother with this sort of staged implementation of taxation? We've
already
:operated under a policy of voluntary contributions for over a year now.
Yes and no. As far as I'm concerned, we haven't been operating under any
policy, since the ownership of NR is only now being resolved through the
formal merging of NR Corp. and the nation through the Articles of
Incorporation.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:03:26 -0500 |
|
Salvete Diana et alii
I haven't read anyone writing that he/she did not want to contribute to NR.
Who said such a thing? I really want to write his name down.
Opposition to imposition of taxes does not equate with unwillingness to
contribute financially to NR.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
:From: Diana Aventina <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176113185158237169037163101249089000144044067209130152" >diana_aventina@--------</a>
:
:Hi Dexippus and others,
:I am firmly behind :-) Dexippus in this issue.
:I really find it hard to believe that people
:don't want to pay anything to support Nova Roma.
|
| Subject: |
What "system" was Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:08:34 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
:
:
:
:The proposed tax system is more than fair. You are just being
unreasonable.
Which one? The provincial one? The gens one? The pizza one? Or are they
all more than fair?
Hey -- why not pass them all? We can tax people in a variety of ways for a
few weeks, then focus on the method that turns away the most people the
fastest.
Valete
C Marius Merullus:
|
| Subject: |
Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:11:11 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et alii
What are these benefits?
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
:
:Equal taxation for equal benefits. You pay $15, I pay $15, she pays $15,
he
:pays $15 and we all get the same benfits. You pay nothing, I pay $25, he
:pays $50, she pays $10...why should you get the same benefits as the rest
of
:us or I get the same benefits as the citizen who pays $50?
:
|
| Subject: |
Who bears the brunt was Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:17:39 -0500 |
|
Salvete Dexippe et Tite Labiene et alii
Of course this is true. For the most part, citizens from the more affluent
countries will be the ones who provide the most monetary support to Nova
Roma -- unless we recruit Berezovsky or other oligarchs from the less
affluent countries, I guess.
The citizens in the more affluent countries have a choice, either to
contribute the funds and let it go at that, or drive away their brethren
from the less affluent countries for non-payment.
I know which way I'm going.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
Senator
:From: &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=034166250009056116130232203056129208071" &g--------bienus@--------&l--------&g--------r>
:
:
:Bear with me through the following syllogism, please.
:
:-Nova Roma's aggregate expenses will, primarily, be covered by taxes. This
:point is currently moot (moot=debatable), but I believe that is the
inevitable
:outcome.
:-Eastern citizens are, in general, much poorer than Western citizens.
:-A flat tax will, therefore, constitute a higher percentage of Eastern
:citizens' income.
:-More Eastern citizens will, therefore, decide that Nova Roman citizenship
is
:not worth the expense. (Re: Maslow)
:-Therefore, the bulk of Nova Roma's citizens will remain Westerners.
:-Therefore, the bulk of Nova Roma's expenses, i.e. taxes, will be borne by
:Western citizens.
|
| Subject: |
The family tax was Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:24:52 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
This has the makings of a proposal. What happens to the non-paying gens
members? If the head of the gens has the power to boot them for
non-payment, do they re-apply to the censores for membership in different
gentes? Or are they booted from NR once and for all?
Who determines the locally fair rate?
Also, who moderates disputes over tax payments between the children and the
fathers/mothers?
Valete
C Marius Merullus
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
:
:
:Let the province tax its gens (genii? genses?) at the rate considered
:locally fair, and all provinces contribute the same fixed percentage of
:their take to Mother Nova Roma, thus doing away with the problem of
:different income levels in the different provinces. In turn, each
:Paterfamilias (or materfamilias) would determine what was expected of
:each individual member of their gens, thus leaving the problem of
:hardship cases, fairness, etc., to the family to determine.
:
|
| Subject: |
Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:32:01 -0500 |
|
Salvete Iuli et alii
:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246243113180119209184102159248147208071048" >St--------eck@--------</--------;
:
:
:Perhaps we should make donating money easier, somehow, and make it seem
more
:"popular" and fun.
:
Nah. Too much work. Just pay taxes instead.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
Senator
|
| Subject: |
Re: Theft accusations and other off-topics threads |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:45:51 -0500 |
|
Salvete Aule Artori et alii
:From: "A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a>
:
:
:I certainly know that such personal stuff like this theft squabble must be
:kept off-lists, but… This accusations has been made publicly, and not
once –
:several times a day.
Let's all be friends here. We're here to re-build Roma, remember?
For what it's worth, I don't take the accusation against you at all
seriously, and I doubt that anyone else does. Just let it go.
:The only thing I can suggest is everyone to send in NR list the only one
:message upon one topic per day and answer all the opponents at once in it –
:this could solve the problem of huge traffic. Personally I'll try to manage
:to do so now;-) I agree with everything been said about the huge amount of
:messages.
Huh? I just read what seemed like a million messages from you, now you
don't want to read a dozen or so from me?
Boo-hoo, not fair.
:Respondeo: Sorry! Never really know that! I didn't want to shout! I used
:capitals just to stress some sentences;-) I also use capitals in the end of
:my NR messages, it's just because Romans always used only capitals in their
:writings,
Is that true? Why then do I see cursive writing that are supposed to be
"authentic"? It seems unlikely to me that the Romans always used capital
letters, just as everyone in Rome probably didn't wake up each morning and
start speaking like Cicero giving an oration. Unless the Rome about which
you're talking is a very early, barely literate one. Please elaborate.
and the text of my signature is completely in Latin, and I always
:try to type Latin like it was written in Rome. If I bother someone with
:this, just tell me, no problem – I'll use the smallest letters my computer
:can print;-)!!!
Big signatures, whatever their contents, can bother some people, including
me. But it's no big deal. If it pleases you to emulate the Romans that
way, I say, go ahead.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
:
|
| Subject: |
Re: paying for temples |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:13:28 -0500 |
|
Salvete Cassia et alii
One of the problems with imposing taxes is that what you want to buy, I want
to buy, and some other Gaius wants to buy, may all be different things. If
all three of us send NR some money, then the Senate votes to use the funds
to build a shrine of a deity that none of us worships, that is simply the
Senate's prerogative -- how could we argue with it?
But if our funds are collected by coercion, then of course we won't feel so
good if we don't agree with the result. And won't we be less likely to
donate anything above and beyond the mandatory amount ever after?
By the way, the only long-term investment that I see as having a reasonable
consensus right now is for a parcel of NR land. I picture at least a temple
there, a capitolium perhaps.
The cost to obtain land and build even one temple seems significant to me.
There are so many variables -- where will the land be, what temple, how will
it be constructed et cetera -- but surely this is something approaching a
million $. For 300, 400 or 500 citizens contributing a pizza a year, this
is going to take an awful long time (not that we can expect to coerce a
pizza from 300 at this point, minime haud).
I believe that we would do better to bring in more people and induce more of
them to contribute more, more quickly.
I think that outreach -- over the Internet, in-person -- may bring us to the
temple faster and better.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
:From: Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
:
:It is my belief that Nova Roma treasury funds should be used first and
:foremost to create events and projects that will bring us together. While
:I am a believer in the Religio Romana, I also know that most ancient
:Romans contributed only to the temples of the gods of their own faith.
:Most men of the elite, for example, did not support the worship of
:Cybele, and the worship of Bona Dea was probably funded entirely by women.
:
:I suggest that raising money for a temple be a separate, voluntary fund,
:encouraged by the leaders of Nova Roma but not funded through any
:mandatory tax. I would be willing to administer this fund in conjunction
:with my duties as Quaestor.
:
|
| Subject: |
[Fwd: RE: Probus's post] |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:05:07 -0800 |
|
Salve! I am forwarding this post to the NR Main list. Since Sarmaticus has
unsubbed from the NR main list.
L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" wrote:
> Salve Sulla,
>
> I have just unsubscribed from NR list so I cannot send it there. But why no
> thinking about such a phrase "A citizen should pay 15$, but not more than X%
> of his/her annual income (variant: his/her province/country _average_
> individual income/wage))"?
>
> Still, neither Probus nor me suggested to control everyones' incomes! We
> both have said that an _average_ individual income/wage can be taken as a
> base.
>
> Please forward this to NR officials if you think it's worth.
>
> See you in Vizantia!
>
> >From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> >To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> >Subject: [novaroma] RE: Probus's post
> >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:14:07 -0800
> >
> >From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> >
> >of the 1% tax.
> >
> >Sorry, its a bit unrealistic for a few reasons.
> >
> >1. We dont have the infrastructure and bureaucracy to investigate
> >exactly how much everyone makes. Nor do I think most civies would like
> >us to know.
> >
> >2. I make about 25K a year, that is NOT alot of money. That means
> >instead of 15.00 per year going to Nova Roma, mandatory tax, and if I
> >decided to add anything on top of it, I cant send that in. Now I have
> >to send 250.00. Sorry, but with my rent, school loans, and other debts
> >that just isnt going to happen.
> >
> >As I said, the proposal that I drafted was a fair and very moderate tax,
> >as opposed to your proposal. :)
> >
> >Respectfully.
> >
> >L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >Censor
> >
> >
> >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
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> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE ETIAM
> PROPRAETOR SARMATIAE PROVINCIAE
>
> LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST
>
> VALETE IN PACE
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Tax breaks |
| From: |
Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:23:01 -0500 |
|
Quoth Nova Roma Mailing List:
>We could apply for a "tax break" such as those Non-Profit Organizations and
>Churches Receive. Unless I'm mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong,
>Recognized Churches and Recognized Non-Profit Organizations, such as the
>Boy-Scouts of America (Which I was in untill I graduated), don't have to pay
>taxes, or only have to pay reduced taxes.
Nova Roma is already registered as a nonprofit organization, and will
apply in due course for an exemption from U.S. taxes. Provinciae outside
the United States will need to consult the rules of their own countries,
of course, and probably establish their own treasuries with a defined
relationship to the central one. I encourage those proposing a tax system
to present a full-fledged plan with provisions for dealing with these
difficulties, rather than asking the Senate to vote on a vague concept.
Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Chat Room Issues |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:47:06 EST |
|
Salve,
I can certainly understand your concern about the Chat Room, Lucius
Cornelius, but I'm wondering who you expect can make this change. I'm
probably completely wrong, but thought that YOU were the one working on
getting the Chat format changed over to something more safe and stable! Was I
incorrect that you'd volunteered to do this at one point? (Wouldn't blame you
if you tried and couldn't... it's probably something that's both time
consuming and requiring a lot of technical expertise.)
In any case, if you get the opportunity, please ask these friends of yours at
Earthlink what they recommend as far as solving this problem. If they know
all the details about why our current Chat is unsafe, hopefully they also
know of better systems we can make use of.
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
In a message dated 1/30/00 1:34:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<<
Salve
Working at Earthlink brings me into contact with many individuals who know
ALOT about computers. I have learned that the Chatroom setup is not safe
because it displays our IP addy's. While it is safer for Dial up accounts
because its a Dynamic IP addy. For us High Speed, Broadband users who have
static IPs its VERY UNSAFE. Its a Security Hazard. Could this please be
changed, I really dont want people finding my IP address and hack into my
computer.
At work today I learned just how easy it is to hack into any computer once
you learn their IP addy, and well I am very concerned.
Vale
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
|
| Subject: |
Re: a Suggestion |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:47:48 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/29/00 5:01:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114176113185158237169037163101249089000144044067209130152" >diana_aventina@--------</a> writes:
<< Nova Roma could do the same thing. Nova Roma
could give away, say 5 free memberships, if there >>
That's reasonable. It's not gonna make or break us.
--Dex
|
| Subject: |
Re: Chat Room Issues |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:48:49 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Censor Sulla;
I am very glad to hear your report in regard to internet security. I
reported the same problem to NR a year ago (or more) as my son had
reported to me in regard to internet security and Those in NR who were
perhaps not quite so well trained in the system were quite skeptical of
my warnings. Although you use more technical terminology in your
explanation, than I have access to or knowledge of, I think that your
security warning is a very real thing.
I suspect that this "new" information was exactly what our old friend
Fannius was talking about when he offered to assist in "plugging" some
of these security leaks. Of course, he failed to come through, but I do
not think that reflects on the truth of the security problems, rather
perhaps upon other factors.
Never-the-less I am glad to hear of your findings and I support your
call to look into the problem.
Vale;
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens;
Consul et Senator
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Digest Number 715 |
| From: |
w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:53:14 -0800 |
|
Salve Alexander I.C. Probus
1% of someone's income is Fair to me , BUT I live in the USA and I also know that
some of our Civii are
on foodstamps ( GOV help to buy food) and and somne are working poor and at a min
wage job
1% is still $10 a month! thats not Fair.
vale
<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:25:15 +0100
> From: hadji <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=180166080058082135090082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
> Subject: Can NR taxes be fair?
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> A lot of stuff have been said on the list about this issue and sometimes
> I was ashamed to read some insulting notes. On the other side I highly
> appreciate the efforts of Marcus Minucius Audens, Lucius Cornelius
> Sulla, Venator, Moravius and other to quite down the contraproductive
> noise.
> I have told you about my plans to run out Pannonia Macellum and will do
> all the best I can to support Nova Roma. On the other side I do
> understand very well what our young, temperament but true friend
> Sarmaticus have wanted to say. I would like to offer you an idea of mine
> which seems to me to be acceptable for everyone in Nova Roma.
> As 1$ has really a very different value all over the world, what about
> to replace this 15$ amount with 1% from the annual income of every Nova
> Roman citizen. So this 1% is so valuable for me and for Sarmaticus and
> for Dexipus too. 1% is the sama all over the world and I am ready to
> accept it. There is absolutly no need to declare or to publish our
> incomes as all of us are enough honest to calculate this 1% amount alone
> and to send it to our treasure. For those ones who are afraid or ashamed
> to send the exact amount, I would like to suggest to use the average
> income in their own state (it does not matter Texas, Sarmatia, Pannonia
> or Somalia). I guess such a proposal is enough honest for everyone and
> do not provides anyone to be ashamed or publicly to demonstrate the
> advatiges of his/her birthplace.
> This is my last word on this issue. Let us to see how generous, honest
> are all of us now. I am prepared to devote my 1% to Nova Roma.
>
> Est felicibus difficilis miseriarum vera aestimatio
> /It is difficult for the happy one to understand how feels the poor one/
>
> Bene Vale
>
> Alexander I.C. Probus
> Propraetor of Pannonia
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Senate Item #5 |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:53:49 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/30/00 1:31:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> writes:
<< Have you contributed any money to Nova Roma? >>
Yes
--Dex
|
| Subject: |
Re: Chat Room Issues |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:59:59 EST |
|
Salve Sulla
<< Working at Earthlink brings me into contact with many individuals who know
ALOT about computers. I have learned that the Chatroom setup is not safe
because it displays our IP addy's. While it is safer for Dial up accounts
because its a Dynamic IP addy. For us High Speed, Broadband users who have
static IPs its VERY UNSAFE. Its a Security Hazard. Could this please be
changed, I really dont want people finding my IP address and hack into my
computer.
At work today I learned just how easy it is to hack into any computer once
you learn their IP addy, and well I am very concerned. >>
As always it is a great pleasure to receive email from you. I have
discovered an online resource, simmilar to the one who currently supplies our
chat rooms, which does not display IP's and personally I believe it to be a
better overall chat room. You can find more information at www.anexa.com
(and they also have simmilar chat rooms at www.xoom.com).
Vale in pace
Iulius Thompsonus
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
|
| Subject: |
Update on the Senate meeting |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:32:55 EST |
|
Salvete Omnes!
The Senate is now voting on its current agenda. Voting will end on
Tuesday, 01 Feb.
Item six -- appointments to fill vacant magistracies -- has been
withdrawn as unnecessary.
Item seven -- to appoint a Princeps Senatus -- has been withdrawn. There
was much discussion about what the duties of this person would be and
whether this ancient and distinguished title would be appropriately used
for someone who would essentially be "just" a webmaster.
An eighth item has been added to the formal agenda: it proposes that the
Senate confirm the incorporation papers of Nova Roma, and seems bound to
pass.
It appears that most senators are in favor of changes to the century
point system, but many are voting for smaller increases, and the addition
of points for lictors and consular advisors has been pointed out as
unnecessary because they are already covered in the original lex.
The confirmation of provincial governors has been pointed out to be
redundant and unnecessary, but most senators seem to be voting yes on it
anyway, and for the creation of the province of Germania comprising
present day Germany and Austria, with Marcus Marcius Rex as Praetor.
There was some debate about the status of my own province's "propraetrix"
Minerva Iucundia Flavia, who has been inactive recently and had informed
some senators that she wished to be removed from her offices. Minerva
Iucundia, however, put a dramatic end to this debate by reappearing and
voting ahead of everybody else.
Items three and four, relating to Marcus Minucius Audens' relations with
the SCA (or his local guild thereof) and his "outreach program" seem to
have fairly universal approval, even though nobody knows what is meant by
his "outreach program."
Item five -- that the Senate impose a dues structure on citizens -- seems
to be passing. It should be noted that this item doesn't actually tax
anyone. It just says that that is something the Senate should do. There
is no specific proposal for taxes or dues here, so that is something that
will have to wait for a later meeting of the Senate in any case. This
seems to be an almost pointless vote other than to state a "sense of the
Senate" in favor of taxes.
That's the news from the Senate so far.
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribunus Plebis
cum ballistae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti ballistas habebunt.
(When ballistas are outlawed, only outlaws will have ballistas.)
|
| Subject: |
tax proposal |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:31:21 -0600 |
|
Salve Gaius Marius,
Thanks for noticing my idea, which is just an elaboration of something
posted by Marcus Marcius Rex. I thought both our posts were lost in the
snowstorm of mail between Dex and Sarmaticus. Here then is a more
complete proposal that I am submitting to the list, the Senate, and the
Consuls.
I am in favor of a lex that would make it a duty for everyone to
contribute to the financial underpinnings of the Republic. I am also
aware, even before Sarmaticus, that in some regions of the world, and for
some people everywhere, $15 can be an enormous sum of money. In fact, I
know many people in this "rich" country (U.S.A.) who could not afford to
pay $15 annually to belong to Nova Roma -- anyone who chooses to not
believe this is free to do so but it is fact. I am not in favor of
limiting citizenship to those who are financially able to afford $15
annually.
I would propose (were I a senator) that the Senate pass and present to
the Comitiae for approval, a tax policy that each gens is expected to
contribute money to support the Nova Roman activities of the province
they (the pater/materfamilias) call theirs and the activities of Nova
Roma as a whole. It would be the responsibility of the provinicial
governor to determine what is a fair and equitable amount for the gentes
of their province to contribute. The provinicial governor annually would
forward 50% of the money raised to the government of the Republic. It
would be specifically left to the head of each gens to determine how the
tax would be raised within their gens. Obviously in a single member gens
such as the Sergii, the tax would be paid solely by the Paterfamilias or
Materfamilas.
Within the family (gens) failure of an individual to contribute if asked
to do so by the family head would be a matter within the authority of the
head of the family. I doubt that anyone is going to throw a family member
out just because they can't afford their share, but there would be an
explicit right of appeal to the governor, and beyond that to the Senate
(or Consuls?), for moderation.
Within the province, failure of a gens to contribute the designated
amount held fair for that province would be dealt with by the governor,
with right of appeal to the Senate (or Consuls?).
And there are always the Tribunii Plebii to appeal to.
I would specify that revocation of citizenship by the family head or
provincial governor simply for non-payment of taxes is not allowed. That
option would be reserved for the Senate. (In general, I think that only
the Senate should have the power to revoke citizenship for any reason.)
This proposal solves the problem of the differences in average income
between "rich" countries/regions and poorer ones. If a provincial
governor were to abuse his/her power to levy taxes by requiring too much
from gentes within the province, they would appeal to the Senate (or
Consuls) for moderation or correction (which could even result in the
replacement of the governor).
Advantages of this proposal:
There would be much more incentive for the growth of the Republic,
because Pater/Materfamilii would have motivation to recruit more members
for their gentes so as to share the tax "burden!"
Additionally, new citizens might be more interested in joining an
existing gens than in creating more and more one-member gentes as is the
case now.
Provinicial governors would have some real governmental responsibility
beyond just hosting meetings and conducting PR. (If any governor is
offended by this statement, don't be. I don't know all that you do and
that isn't an issue anyway -- PLEASE let's not start a thread on how much
more you do than Australicus acknowledged -- who cares what Australicus
acknowledges?)
Provincial governors would have some funds to pay for the things they do
within their province, or could do if they had money (Web site, meetings,
literature, newsletter, mailings to non-Internetworked citizens, etc.).
Nova Roma would have more income than at present. Everyone would have a
part in supporting it, while no-one would be forced to pay more than they
could afford. The gens-system would be strengthened. Provincial
governorships would be more important even than they are now. Medicaid
would be saved again -- whoops! Wrong campaign!
Disadvantages:
Family heads (is there a non-gender term for this in Latin?) might not
want the responsibility of asking their family members for money, and
governors might not want the responsibility of deciding what level of
taxation is fair for their provinces. All I can say there is that it
necessarily goes with those offices if we're at all serious about Nova
Roma. Those who don't want responsibility should not seek positions of
responsibility.
Some governors may ask for more from their provinces than their
provincial citizens think is fair. There is appeal to higher authority to
remedy that.
Some governors may ask for less from their provinces than citizens of
other provinces, or senators, think is fair. There are remedies for that
too -- governors serve at the pleasure of the Senate and people of Nova
Roma.
Some citizens and heads of family asked to pay taxes may decide Nova Roma
isn't worth it and may drop out. We may lose whole gentes of people who
decide Nova Roma isn't worth it. I have to ask, Conscript Fathers and
Quirites, if they are asked to contribute an amount judged reasonable and
fair by the Senate and their local governor and they don't think Nova
Roma is worth it, then why do we need them? Let them go. (What was that
line from Patrick Henry about "sunshine patriots?")
Most cives may be already so tired of this debate about taxes that they
don't even respond to this proposal. Fine -- I can't blame them. For my
part, I'm sending it out into the field and I'm going to sit back in my
tent and see if it comes back alive. It's too late for this session of
the Senate anyway, so there's plenty of time for others to modify it and
firm it up for the next, or kill it off entirely.
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribunus Plebis
On 1/29/00 11:24 PM Gaius Marius Merullus (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>) wrote:
>From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
>
>This has the makings of a proposal. What happens to the non-paying gens
>members? If the head of the gens has the power to boot them for
>non-payment, do they re-apply to the censores for membership in different
>gentes? Or are they booted from NR once and for all?
>
>Who determines the locally fair rate?
>
>Also, who moderates disputes over tax payments between the children and the
>fathers/mothers?
>
>Valete
>
>C Marius Merullus
>
>
>
>:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
>:
>:
>:Let the province tax its gens (genii? genses?) at the rate considered
>:locally fair, and all provinces contribute the same fixed percentage of
>:their take to Mother Nova Roma, thus doing away with the problem of
>:different income levels in the different provinces. In turn, each
>:Paterfamilias (or materfamilias) would determine what was expected of
>:each individual member of their gens, thus leaving the problem of
>:hardship cases, fairness, etc., to the family to determine.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: paying for temples |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:31:24 -0600 |
|
Salve Omnes,
I think Gaius Marius has put it correctly: the expense of actually
building public buildings such as temples would be much more than we are
likely to raise in taxes anytime soon. I think the question of building a
temple was just introduced as an example of something that could be a
common goal of Nova Romans. Apparently it ws not the best example.
We are nowhere near the point of needing to decide how to pay for a
temple -- we are currently heavily dependent upon the generosity of
individual magistrates just to buy stamps for correspondence!
It would be perhaps reasonable now, since we are approaching the point of
collecting taxes (dues, whatever) to think about what funds might be set
aside to buy some plot (or plots) of land for Nova Roman activities. That
would be within our budget hopefully in the foreseeable future.
(Here commence the squabbles about in whose country the land should be,
what could we do with land, why should all of us contribute to it, etc..
Have fun!)
Valete,
L. Sergius Aust.
On 1/30/00 12:13 AM Gaius Marius Merullus (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>) wrote:
>From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Cassia et alii
>
>One of the problems with imposing taxes is that what you want to buy, I want
>to buy, and some other Gaius wants to buy, may all be different things. If
>all three of us send NR some money, then the Senate votes to use the funds
>to build a shrine of a deity that none of us worships, that is simply the
>Senate's prerogative -- how could we argue with it?
>
>But if our funds are collected by coercion, then of course we won't feel so
>good if we don't agree with the result. And won't we be less likely to
>donate anything above and beyond the mandatory amount ever after?
>
>By the way, the only long-term investment that I see as having a reasonable
>consensus right now is for a parcel of NR land. I picture at least a temple
>there, a capitolium perhaps.
>
>The cost to obtain land and build even one temple seems significant to me.
>There are so many variables -- where will the land be, what temple, how will
>it be constructed et cetera -- but surely this is something approaching a
>million $. For 300, 400 or 500 citizens contributing a pizza a year, this
>is going to take an awful long time (not that we can expect to coerce a
>pizza from 300 at this point, minime haud).
>
>I believe that we would do better to bring in more people and induce more of
>them to contribute more, more quickly.
>
>I think that outreach -- over the Internet, in-person -- may bring us to the
>temple faster and better.
>
>Valete
>
>C Marius Merullus
|
| Subject: |
Pizza Tax |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:46:04 PST |
|
Mei populari, salutem!
Sic Merullus, in responsio Dexippum:
>:The proposed tax system is more than fair<AMPUTATIO>. >Which one? The
>provincial one? The gens one? The pizza one? Or are they
>all more than fair?
- Cives, I must have fallen asleep or else deleted some really important
posts by mistake. I see now that there is to be a Pizza Tax. Well, Quirites,
let it be known that I, Nicolaus Moravius Vado, am prepared and willing, as
Paterfamilias of Gens Moravia, to pay 1% of what Gens Moravia spends on
pizzas, including those consumed by my cousin Diana in Gallia Belgica
(though not including those purchased by her non-citizen barbarian husband,
but not excepting any part or parts of the aforementioned pizza or pizzas
which may be fed by either of them to, or purloined by, their cats);
provided that all such monies be paid by me into the Aerarium Britannicum
pending universal agreement in Nova Roma as to whether non-pagan citizens
shall be required to pay for the printing of contributions or articles of a
pagan nature in the Eagle,(not forgetting of course the proportional postage
fees required for the carriage and delivery of that part of the total weight
of that issue of the Eagle represented by the aforementioned article or
articles), and all suchlike other vital matters. And providing we can have
an assurance that pizzas in the western and wealthier provinciae will be
made larger than those of the eastern, in the interests of fairness. Again,
assuming that the tax is to be a quantitative tax, rather than one based on
a sliding scale according to the width and depth of the pan and whether
pepperoni and olives are extra.
Dear Gods! What will the debates be like when we actually HAVE money to
spend? Just think of the disagreements we can have then! (:-(
Valete bene in pace,
Vado.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: tax proposal |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:53:18 -0800 |
|
Okay. I'll respond to this proposal, since it is on the Senate mailing "list".
I think that it is a bad idea. I mean ill considered, however much thought
appears to have gone into it. It is a good example of passing the buck.
If the Senate wants to "impose" taxes, then it should cope to its
responsibility and do so itself rather than use the Gentes as a new
type of Tax Farming.
With a little more work this proposed system could, possible,
be more complicated. And it is so easy to say that if someone
does not agree with your opinon that they are ignorant hooligans
who obviously do not Really Care about Nova Roma. And NR
would be better off without them. Cassius, a Founder, has been
against Taxes in the past and most likely in the present.
*** Voting is going on in the Senate as we read and write. ***
Nova Roma does need, repeat Need, taxes at present.
Any sort of taxes, dues, fees will be in violation of the
incorporation papers that are even now being voted on.
While this is a plan for extracting money form the citizens,
there is still no thing that says where our hard earned
money will go.
There is an annoying saying that I hear at various times
here in the U.S. It seems to fit a lot of the talk on taxes
that has been going on here. It goes, "Don't tax me,
don't tax me. Tax the other guy behind that tree."
Stupid doggerel. But when taxes are needed there will
not be an argument about whether to have them, just
about how to get them. This plan does address that.
Just the same it is a bad plan. And I've already given it
more words than it deserves.
C. Aelius Ericius.
Ira Adams wrote:
> Salve Gaius Marius,
>
> Thanks for noticing my idea, which is just an elaboration of something
> posted by Marcus Marcius Rex. I thought both our posts were lost in the
> snowstorm of mail between Dex and Sarmaticus. Here then is a more
> complete proposal that I am submitting to the list, the Senate, and the
> Consuls.
>
> I am in favor of a lex that would make it a duty for everyone to
> contribute to the financial underpinnings of the Republic. I am also
> aware, even before Sarmaticus, that in some regions of the world, and for
> some people everywhere, $15 can be an enormous sum of money. In fact, I
> know many people in this "rich" country (U.S.A.) who could not afford to
> pay $15 annually to belong to Nova Roma -- anyone who chooses to not
> believe this is free to do so but it is fact. I am not in favor of
> limiting citizenship to those who are financially able to afford $15
> annually.
>
> I would propose (were I a senator) that the Senate pass and present to
> the Comitiae for approval, a tax policy that each gens is expected to
> contribute money to support the Nova Roman activities of the province
> they (the pater/materfamilias) call theirs and the activities of Nova
> Roma as a whole. It would be the responsibility of the provinicial
> governor to determine what is a fair and equitable amount for the gentes
> of their province to contribute. The provinicial governor annually would
> forward 50% of the money raised to the government of the Republic. It
> would be specifically left to the head of each gens to determine how the
> tax would be raised within their gens. Obviously in a single member gens
> such as the Sergii, the tax would be paid solely by the Paterfamilias or
> Materfamilas.
>
> Within the family (gens) failure of an individual to contribute if asked
> to do so by the family head would be a matter within the authority of the
> head of the family. I doubt that anyone is going to throw a family member
> out just because they can't afford their share, but there would be an
> explicit right of appeal to the governor, and beyond that to the Senate
> (or Consuls?), for moderation.
>
> Within the province, failure of a gens to contribute the designated
> amount held fair for that province would be dealt with by the governor,
> with right of appeal to the Senate (or Consuls?).
>
> And there are always the Tribunii Plebii to appeal to.
>
> I would specify that revocation of citizenship by the family head or
> provincial governor simply for non-payment of taxes is not allowed. That
> option would be reserved for the Senate. (In general, I think that only
> the Senate should have the power to revoke citizenship for any reason.)
>
> This proposal solves the problem of the differences in average income
> between "rich" countries/regions and poorer ones. If a provincial
> governor were to abuse his/her power to levy taxes by requiring too much
> from gentes within the province, they would appeal to the Senate (or
> Consuls) for moderation or correction (which could even result in the
> replacement of the governor).
>
> Advantages of this proposal:
> There would be much more incentive for the growth of the Republic,
> because Pater/Materfamilii would have motivation to recruit more members
> for their gentes so as to share the tax "burden!"
>
> Additionally, new citizens might be more interested in joining an
> existing gens than in creating more and more one-member gentes as is the
> case now.
>
> Provinicial governors would have some real governmental responsibility
> beyond just hosting meetings and conducting PR. (If any governor is
> offended by this statement, don't be. I don't know all that you do and
> that isn't an issue anyway -- PLEASE let's not start a thread on how much
> more you do than Australicus acknowledged -- who cares what Australicus
> acknowledges?)
>
> Provincial governors would have some funds to pay for the things they do
> within their province, or could do if they had money (Web site, meetings,
> literature, newsletter, mailings to non-Internetworked citizens, etc.).
>
> Nova Roma would have more income than at present. Everyone would have a
> part in supporting it, while no-one would be forced to pay more than they
> could afford. The gens-system would be strengthened. Provincial
> governorships would be more important even than they are now. Medicaid
> would be saved again -- whoops! Wrong campaign!
>
> Disadvantages:
> Family heads (is there a non-gender term for this in Latin?) might not
> want the responsibility of asking their family members for money, and
> governors might not want the responsibility of deciding what level of
> taxation is fair for their provinces. All I can say there is that it
> necessarily goes with those offices if we're at all serious about Nova
> Roma. Those who don't want responsibility should not seek positions of
> responsibility.
>
> Some governors may ask for more from their provinces than their
> provincial citizens think is fair. There is appeal to higher authority to
> remedy that.
>
> Some governors may ask for less from their provinces than citizens of
> other provinces, or senators, think is fair. There are remedies for that
> too -- governors serve at the pleasure of the Senate and people of Nova
> Roma.
>
> Some citizens and heads of family asked to pay taxes may decide Nova Roma
> isn't worth it and may drop out. We may lose whole gentes of people who
> decide Nova Roma isn't worth it. I have to ask, Conscript Fathers and
> Quirites, if they are asked to contribute an amount judged reasonable and
> fair by the Senate and their local governor and they don't think Nova
> Roma is worth it, then why do we need them? Let them go. (What was that
> line from Patrick Henry about "sunshine patriots?")
>
> Most cives may be already so tired of this debate about taxes that they
> don't even respond to this proposal. Fine -- I can't blame them. For my
> part, I'm sending it out into the field and I'm going to sit back in my
> tent and see if it comes back alive. It's too late for this session of
> the Senate anyway, so there's plenty of time for others to modify it and
> firm it up for the next, or kill it off entirely.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Sergius Australicus
> Tribunus Plebis
>
> On 1/29/00 11:24 PM Gaius Marius Merullus (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>) wrote:
>
> >From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
> >
> >Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
> >
> >This has the makings of a proposal. What happens to the non-paying gens
> >members? If the head of the gens has the power to boot them for
> >non-payment, do they re-apply to the censores for membership in different
> >gentes? Or are they booted from NR once and for all?
> >
> >Who determines the locally fair rate?
> >
> >Also, who moderates disputes over tax payments between the children and the
> >fathers/mothers?
> >
> >Valete
> >
> >C Marius Merullus
> >
> >
> >
> >:From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=226107192180229130130232031248147208071048" >LSergAust@--------</--------;
> >:
> >:
> >:Let the province tax its gens (genii? genses?) at the rate considered
> >:locally fair, and all provinces contribute the same fixed percentage of
> >:their take to Mother Nova Roma, thus doing away with the problem of
> >:different income levels in the different provinces. In turn, each
> >:Paterfamilias (or materfamilias) would determine what was expected of
> >:each individual member of their gens, thus leaving the problem of
> >:hardship cases, fairness, etc., to the family to determine.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Re: Chat Room Issues |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:41:55 EST |
|
Salve!
<< I'm not really sure who runs the Chatroom, if anybody...but I believe
that feature (displaying the chatters' IP addresses) was enabled around
the time of the Chat Wars (Fall '98) so that the owner of the room
could Ban people from the chat--we were having a very serious problem
with intruders booting out Citizens and taking over the room with
obscenities. The Ban feature requires the use of IP addresses.
Typically, every solution brings with it a new set of problems... I
will make the change sometime in the next couple of days; but I would
be most interested to hear of Sulla Censor's progress in finding us a
new Chat. >>
The anexa.com chat rooms which I told you about earlier have special
Administrator Java menu's which only the Administrator can use. This could
solve this problem and the IP problem.
Vale
Iulius Thompsonus
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Alternative to taxes |
| From: |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:41:31 -0500 |
|
Are checks to be made payable to Nova Roma?
Pat Washburn wrote:
>
> From: Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> While the issue of taxation has reared its ugly head again, I would like
> to mention that Nova Roma has always accepted donations from
> public-spirited Citizens. If you have the means to encourage Nova Roma's
> growth and strength through even a small contribution, the address is:
>
> Nova Roma
> P.O. Box 1897
> Wells, ME 04090
>
> Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0
> percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden
> fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve.
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mia So--------uist (<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=189075253209082116015223190036129" >tuozin@--------</a>)
<a href="http://www.crosswinds.net/~ratnow/" target="_top" >http://www.crosswinds.net/~ratnow/</a>
Want to play the Story Game?
<a href="http://www.onelist.com/community/storygame" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/community/storygame</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: tax proposal |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:31:15 -0600 |
|
Salve Senator Ericius
Thank you for taking the time to read my message. However I wish you had
taken a little _more_ time to read it carefully. It does not "pass the
buck" -- the Senate appears to be already in the process of officially
voting that taxes should be levied. The idea I presented would simply
allow the decision of how much those taxes should be to be left to more
local discretion at the level of the province.
I resolutely refuse to take offense that you falsely accused me of
expressing the opinion that any citizens are
>ignorant hooligans who obviously do not Really Care about Nova Roma. And NR
would be
>better off without them.
I would be amused to see where in my post you found that opinion, because
it is not there anywhere. Just read it again and try to keep your
feelings from clouding your otherwise impressive acuity.
Many people have been opposed to taxes, dues, etc., and there's nothing
wrong with their opposition. They're not "bad citizens" for opposing the
idea. But if someone quits Nova Roma because taxes are voted in, what are
we to do? -- rescind the tax bill to persuade them to come back? And then
have Nova Roma remain nothing but an Internet debating society?
As to the incorporation papers, I think that all "not-for-profit"
organizations collect money to advance their causes and achieve their
organizational goals, and that collecting money for profit means
something other than that. However, as I have said elsewhere, that calls
for a professional legal opinion.
There is nothing anywhere in my post that suggests "don't tax me -- tax
the other guy." That seems to be somebody else you're responding to. I'm
only trying to suggest a way to provide for a fair tax on everyone.
I apologize if my post to <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=061056234237175198015158190036129" >se--------@--------</a> is disruptive to the Se--------
session. In the past, I have consistently been told that the way to bring
an idea to the attention of the Senate is to email it to that address. If
that is a mailing list address, so that mail to the Senate arrives in the
middle of Senate deliberations, that seems to be a problem of
organization that should be fixed. The Senate's email address should
probably be different from its mailing list. If we are to follow
tradition, nobody should be "speaking" in the Senate except Senators and
the Consuls. I'm not certain whether even Tribunes and other magistrates
were entitled to participate in debate in the Senate of Rome. I welcome
clarification/correction on that issue.
Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.
On 1/30/00 10:53 AM Raz-------- (<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>) wrot--------r>
>Okay. I'll respond to this proposal, since it is on the Senate mailing
>"list".
>I think that it is a bad idea. I mean ill considered, however much thought
>appears to have gone into it. It is a good example of passing the buck.
>If the Senate wants to "impose" taxes, then it should cope to its
>responsibility and do so itself rather than use the Gentes as a new
>type of Tax Farming.
>
>With a little more work this proposed system could, possible,
>be more complicated. And it is so easy to say that if someone
>does not agree with your opinon that they are ignorant hooligans
>who obviously do not Really Care about Nova Roma. And NR
>would be better off without them. Cassius, a Founder, has been
>against Taxes in the past and most likely in the present.
>*** Voting is going on in the Senate as we read and write. ***
>
>Nova Roma does need, repeat Need, taxes at present.
>Any sort of taxes, dues, fees will be in violation of the
>incorporation papers that are even now being voted on.
>
>While this is a plan for extracting money form the citizens,
>there is still no thing that says where our hard earned
>money will go.
>
>There is an annoying saying that I hear at various times
>here in the U.S. It seems to fit a lot of the talk on taxes
>that has been going on here. It goes, "Don't tax me,
>don't tax me. Tax the other guy behind that tree."
>Stupid doggerel. But when taxes are needed there will
>not be an argument about whether to have them, just
>about how to get them. This plan does address that.
>Just the same it is a bad plan. And I've already given it
>more words than it deserves.
>
>C. Aelius Ericius.
|
| Subject: |
Re: tax proposal |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:33:45 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
Ago magnas gratias pro his litteris Thank you very much for this. I ask
that you hold on to this proposal, and consider fine-tuning it in
collaboration with other citizens.
If voluntary contributions and macellum sales don't make their projections
in the coming couple of months, we may well need to impose taxes. Your
proposal seems to me to be a fair model from which to construct a tax
system. The system would be spelled out in a senatus consultum rather than
a lex.
For now, I remain optimistic that Nova Roma will see a flood of donations
and macellum sales in these next few weeks.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
Senator
post scriptum I think that "family heads" could be translated literally,
capita gentium, but I can't provide any example at this moment. I'll look
it up as soon as I can.
:From: Ira Adams <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=210166080237038233015038190036129" >iadams@--------</a>
:
:Salve Gaius Marius,
:
:Thanks for noticing my idea, which is just an elaboration of something
:posted by Marcus Marcius Rex. I thought both our posts were lost in the
:snowstorm of mail between Dex and Sarmaticus. Here then is a more
:complete proposal that I am submitting to the list, the Senate, and the
:Consuls.
:
|
| Subject: |
The Tax Vote |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:17:41 -0800 |
|
Salvete Quirites.
It seems as though the blanket statement item on
the Senate ballot regarding the imposition of taxes
will pass (has passed).
For good or ill I wish it to be known that I am against
taxes in Nova Roma. I always have been. I am willing to
concede only that there might be a time when they would be
appropriate, but that time is not now.
There will be more talk on this issue. You shall be getting
the official notice of the results of the entire ballot that the
Senate of Nova Roma voted on soon. I just wanted to
state what my stand is.
Bona Fortuna, Quirites.
Bona Fortuna.
C. Aelius Ericius
Senator of Nova Roma
Augur et Pontifex
Paterfamilias of gens Aelia.
|
| Subject: |
Orientalism; Gryllus vs Vado : again =) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:35:15 -0000 |
|
Salvete Vado et al
Did you know what I came across with?
The Etruscans believed that there was a 'Manus' (literally 'Hand', but could
also be used as 'Power', 'Force') "which they believed to underlie all of
creation and which manifestated itself to humans as Gods"? The text
continues: "Those who could discern the motions of this power (...) would be
in touch with the divine and would be favoured in their lives.". The author
says that "This is a principle in many philosophies and religions,
especially in the East.". The Romans inherited this belief.
I'm going to check on references and original sources.
|
