| Subject: |
Re: RE: incorporation papers |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:36:55 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Citizens of NR;
My thanks to Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar for his excellent foresight and
response on the subject item.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
File section does not work? |
| From: |
"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:01:28 YEKT |
|
Salvete omnes,
I wonder could someone explain why the "Files" section of the NRlist is not
working at <a href="http://www.onelist.com/files/novaroma/" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com/files/novaroma/</a> ? I am sure it worked OK
some months ago.
AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE
PROPRAETOR SARMATIAE PROVINCIAE
LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST
VALETE IN PACE
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
A--------Pearso--------t;a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=100071080200035240184098109219176090136026139046209" >A--------Pearso--------..</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:33:01 -0000 |
|
Salvete, Cives.
A couple of years ago we had rumours of a Roman site near Dublin. Now 'New Scientist' is carrying this report on an intriguing piece of late 2nd century statuary! Go to:
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns222537" target="_top" >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns222537</a>
to read the New Scientist article (don't hang around - the report will probably be overwritten in a few days).
Was Roman shipping physically capable of crossing the Atlantic?
Valete bene,
Vindex
|
| Subject: |
Re: Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:37:45 EST |
|
Salvete,
Many thanks for posting this! There have been other isolated "hints" of
occasional Roman contact with the new world, but none have so far been as
close to being scientific proof.
Among other items found have been Roman ship anchors and amphora off the
coast of South America (but difficult to prove conclusively *when* they were
left), supposed occasional findings of coins and objects in North America
(which could easily have been brought by Colonial era or 19th century
collectors and simply lost here in America) and even a couple of inscriptions
(impossible to prove their age).
One of the supposed Roman inscriptions is in York, Maine; only two towns away
from me. There is a rock in the harbor which is submerged at high tide. There
is a very old Latin looking inscription on it which indeed *seems* to be
Roman style Latin, as opposed to church Latin or scholarly Latin from later
periods. (Sorry, I can't remember just now what it says, but it's only two
or three words). But again, this could have easily been done any time in the
last couple hundred years by some bored Roman scholar, trying to fake an
older style.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
In a message dated 2/10/00 7:45:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=100071080200035240184098109219176090136026139046209" >A--------Pearso--------..</a> writes:
<< Salvete, Cives.
A couple of years ago we had rumours of a Roman site near Dublin. Now 'New
Scientist' is carrying this report on an intriguing piece of late 2nd century
statuary! Go to:
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns222537" target="_top" >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns222537</a>
to read the New Scientist article (don't hang around - the report will
probably be overwritten in a few days).
Was Roman shipping physically capable of crossing the Atlantic?
Valete bene,
Vindex >>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:38:23 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/10/2000 7:45:48 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=100071080200035240184098109219176090136026139046209" >A--------Pearso--------..</a> writes:
<< Was Roman shipping physically capable of crossing the Atlantic?
>>
Salvete!
We had this debate many years ago in grad school. The wargalleys no,
Triremes, Biremes and Liburnians, the freeboard is just too low to survive
the Atlantic storms.
However a merchant, especially a large merchant of 500 tons burden or more
had an excellent chance to make it. Then we know the grain carriers had the
rough dimensions of "Nina" of Columbus fame, so it could happen. Did the
Romans make a regular habit of it? I would doubt it. First off the ship
would have to make landfall several times during the crossing to make sure
the crew had fresh food and
water. Second, the meticulous Romans would have left some written record of
trade with the Americas.
What happened, how did the bust get to Mexico? Likely one of the ships that
plied the tin trade between Britannia and Gaul (the date 200 CE is
significant) got caught in a sudden storm and blown way off course in the mid
Atlantic. It probably arrived in the Americas with it's crew dead or dying.
Who knows how many times the bust changed hands before it arrived at its
finally resting place?
Vale
Q Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:03:04 EST |
|
<< Was Roman shipping physically capable of crossing the Atlantic? >>
Salve Vindex
I feel that the Romans very likely traveled to America, even if by accident,
and that at least some of the crew of whatever few ships may have made the
voyage survived. The controversial proof that I offer which collaborates
with this is in ancient Aztec Mythology. The statue was found fairly close
to modern day Mexico City which once was also the Capital of the Ancient
Aztec Empire. When Spanish (White Skinned) people first came into contact
with the Aztecs the Aztecs immediently wanted peace with them because of
their belief that the Spanish were Gods (who they recognized by their light
skin) which left them 1,000 years earlier and promised to later return. Now
the belief by the Aztecs that white men were gods also brings up that the
Possibility that not only did the Romans which landed on shore survived, but
possibly also Ruled the Aztecs for a short period of time and then left
(After repairing their ship?). Why no records of this exist in Roman Texts
definately suggests that their ship sank on the Voyage home. Unfortunately
because of the greed of the first Spanish to visit Mexico the Aztec Empire
was destroyed in a lust for gold, and probably many Roman Artifacts were
destroyed along with the Aztec Cities.
Vale
Iulius Thompsonus
Faber est suae quisque fortunae.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:03:31 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/10/00 5:35:11 PM Central Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246243113180119209184102159248147208071048" >St--------eck@--------</--------; writes:
<< I feel that the Romans very likely traveled to America, even if by
accident,
and that at least some of the crew of whatever few ships may have made the
voyage survived. The controversial proof that I offer which collaborates
with this is in ancient Aztec Mythology. The statue was found fairly close
to modern day Mexico City which once was also the Capital of the Ancient
Aztec Empire. When Spanish (White Skinned) people first came into contact
with the Aztecs the Aztecs immediently wanted peace with them because of
their belief that the Spanish were Gods (who they recognized by their light
skin) which left them 1,000 years earlier and promised to later return. Now
the belief by the Aztecs that white men were gods also brings up that the
Possibility that not only did the Romans which landed on shore survived, but
possibly also Ruled the Aztecs for a short period of time and then left
(After repairing their ship?). Why no records of this exist in Roman Texts
definately suggests that their ship sank on the Voyage home. Unfortunately
because of the greed of the first Spanish to visit Mexico the Aztec Empire
was destroyed in a lust for gold, and probably many Roman Artifacts were
destroyed along with the Aztec Cities. >>
too bad the Norse got to N. America first;) but suprisingly, in the Vinland
Sagas, they left beacuse the natives were to hostile. now, the roman miltary
were unparrelled, for the most part, but i just can see a Bearzearker turning
tail. there's was much like the spartan way. come home with your shelid, or
or on it, or don't come back at all.
|
| Subject: |
Incorporation papers, money, taxes, etc. |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:16:39 -0800 |
|
I'm going to make some comments below. It will mainly be areiteration and elaboration of my request for moving
slowly.
First. Regarding the posting of the articles of incorporation on the website--
Yes. Also, as I recall from receiving them as a Senator, they are not long.
The could also be posted to the list. The Web Site would give a permanent
home for them.
Patricia Cassia wrote:
> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:02:30 -0500
> From: Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
> Subject: incorporation papers
>
> Pursuant to last week's vote, I have submitted the revised incorporation
> papers to be registered.
>
> This does NOT mean we are yet a tax-exempt nonprofit organization. I plan
> to make this application later this spring. To do this will require an
> application fee of at least $150, a significant portion of the current
> Treasury. (The re-registration cost just $15.)
I've thought of fancy, cushioned wording. I'll be simple, and hopefully short,
instead. PLEASE, No one take this wording as an insult to them or their
Romanitas and all that other stuff.
I do not think we should rush into the tax exempt game yet. Why should we?
What do we have to gain from it? We will blow a big hunk of the current budget
just to Apply. Tax exempt status requires Super Detailed Book keeping.
If that is done wrong the group loses its tax exempt status, can be hit with fines
and back taxes. I have known of groups that have gone the tax exempt route
and the people have felt lucky to get away with simply having that status yanked.
To do it properly, even if Nova Roma does not start getting large amounts of money,
we would have to get an accountant. There is talk about salaries for some of the NR
jobs. You can be sure the accountant will get a salary. Salaries! That means W-2 and W-4 Forms!
Tax exempt status won't help me, or most citizens. My wife it the number cruncher
and she figures out our tax return several ways, the possible forms and tax schedules
that we can legitimately use. Itemizing makes us pay more taxes, so we don't.
Is there some Really Big prize Nova Roma will get if it is tax exempt? Is there?
Are there people who are waiting for that status so that they can start money making
operations that will swell Nova Roman coffers? Are there people waiting for the
tax dodge to give NR money?
I know most people are fascinated with the Tax Exempt Status thing. Just as they ate
enamored with the Incorporation thing. Which I was also against, but nobody asked me
when it started. I voted to submit the papers. After all the work you people had done,
I didn't think it worth it to vote no against what was simply re-doing what had already
been done. And $15 is not much money. To some people $150 is also not a lot of money.
I am NOT one of those people. Also, $150 is a lot of money so far as the Nova Roma
treasury goes. Yeah. I can hear some saying that they can fix that real easy. TAXES!
Now there is a reason to get us to pay taxes. Remember -- The expenses will continue
to rise. If the game is played right, the expenses will not exceed income.
Why not wait a year to reconsider applying for Tax Exempt Status?
Have a long period for discussion. And use that $15 Incorporation fee
while the papers apply. Instead of reapplying for that status of Corporate-ness,
then you can use the money on the other.
Yes. I expect you people will do it. I might not keep on speaking against it.
I know I'm wasting my breath right now. I am doing this as a matter of
conscience. I will not be changing my mind on this issue. I have been down
this road. It is a waste of time, money and energy.
So there it is ... friends (?). Those of you who are still my friends.
Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius.
Senator.
Augur.
Pontifex.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Transatlantic Romans? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:28:07 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/10/2000 3:35:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246243113180119209184102159248147208071048" >St--------eck@--------</--------; writes:
<< The controversial proof that I offer which collaborates with this is in
ancient Aztec Mythology. The statue was found fairly close to modern day
Mexico City which once was also the Capital of the Ancient Aztec Empire.
When Spanish (White Skinned) people first came into contact with the Aztecs
the Aztecs immediently wanted peace with them because of their belief that
the Spanish were Gods (who they recognized by their light skin) which left
them 1,000 years earlier and promised to later return. <<
Whoa!
Your name isn't Clive Cussler is it? OK think for a moment on what you are
saying.
1500s would be around the 500s when the visitors came according to the Aztec
Calendar. If you use the Toltec Calendar it's even later. Now, that would
mean these were Byzantines, not Romans. That doesn't diminish the feat, a
Droman was not a seagoing ship. But the Byzantines were not Romans.
>>Now the belief by the Aztecs that white men were gods also brings up that
the
Possibility that not only did the Romans which landed on shore survived, but
possibly also Ruled the Aztecs for a short period of time and then left
(After repairing their ship?). Why no records of this exist in Roman Texts
definitely suggests that their ship sank on the Voyage home. Unfortunately
because of the greed of the first Spanish to visit Mexico the Aztec Empire
was destroyed in a lust for gold, and probably many Roman Artifacts were
destroyed along with the Aztec Cities. >>
Many of my friends believe that the Toltecs were visited by ETs and the
Aztecs "lifted" the legend from that tribe. Who knows? But if there were
Roman artifacts in the Aztec treasury, don't you think the Spanish leaders
who were schooled in the
Hellenistic schools of Art might not notice these? And the Church, who was
with the invasion every step of the way, and already was collecting Roman art
treasures, their chaplains might have written about it, in their reports to
the Holy
See.
No, I'm afraid that this is probably an isolated incident, a ship blown off
course, a long journey across the Atlantic, ending in tragedy in the 200s.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Incorporation papers, money, taxes, etc. |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:16:40 -0600 |
|
Salve Senator Ericius
You present some powerful arguments. What would tax-exempt status require
of us besides the accounting and accountability? Would it interfere with
our collection of sums of money for investment and future real-world
expansion?
On what basis would we qualify for tax-exempt status?
We should think very carefully about where we're going. We've already
heard voices raised against the idea of collecting dues or taxes because
of our "not-for-profit" incorporation papers. What bonds would tax-exempt
status put on us?
It is a stated goal of Nova Roma to establish a real-world presence. We
may be going in directions counter to that goal. Let us examine what
we're doing at least as carefully as some would have us examine the idea
of taxes/dues.
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribunus Plebis
On 2/10/00 8:16 PM Raz-------- (<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>) wrot--------r>
SNIP
>
>I've thought of fancy, cushioned wording. I'll be simple, and hopefully
>short,
>instead. PLEASE, No one take this wording as an insult to them or their
>Romanitas and all that other stuff.
>
>I do not think we should rush into the tax exempt game yet. Why should we?
>What do we have to gain from it? We will blow a big hunk of the current
>budget
>just to Apply. Tax exempt status requires Super Detailed Book keeping.
>If that is done wrong the group loses its tax exempt status, can be hit
>with fines
>and back taxes. I have known of groups that have gone the tax exempt route
>and the people have felt lucky to get away with simply having that status
>yanked.
>To do it properly, even if Nova Roma does not start getting large amounts
>of money,
>we would have to get an accountant. There is talk about salaries for some
>of the NR
>jobs. You can be sure the accountant will get a salary. Salaries! That
>means W-2 and W-4 Forms!
>Tax exempt status won't help me, or most citizens. My wife it the number
>cruncher
>and she figures out our tax return several ways, the possible forms and
>tax schedules
>that we can legitimately use. Itemizing makes us pay more taxes, so we
>don't.
>Is there some Really Big prize Nova Roma will get if it is tax exempt? Is
>there?
>Are there people who are waiting for that status so that they can start
>money making
>operations that will swell Nova Roman coffers? Are there people waiting
>for the
>tax dodge to give NR money?
>
>I know most people are fascinated with the Tax Exempt Status thing. Just
>as they ate
>enamored with the Incorporation thing. Which I was also against, but
>nobody asked me
>when it started. I voted to submit the papers. After all the work you
>people had done,
>I didn't think it worth it to vote no against what was simply re-doing
>what had already
>been done. And $15 is not much money. To some people $150 is also not a
>lot of money.
>I am NOT one of those people. Also, $150 is a lot of money so far as the
>Nova Roma
>treasury goes. Yeah. I can hear some saying that they can fix that real
>easy. TAXES!
>Now there is a reason to get us to pay taxes. Remember -- The expenses
>will continue
>to rise. If the game is played right, the expenses will not exceed income.
>
>Why not wait a year to reconsider applying for Tax Exempt Status?
>Have a long period for discussion. And use that $15 Incorporation fee
>while the papers apply. Instead of reapplying for that status of
>Corporate-ness,
>then you can use the money on the other.
>
>Yes. I expect you people will do it. I might not keep on speaking
>against it.
>I know I'm wasting my breath right now. I am doing this as a matter of
>conscience. I will not be changing my mind on this issue. I have been down
>this road. It is a waste of time, money and energy.
>
>So there it is ... friends (?). Those of you who are still my friends.
>
>Valete.
>C. Aelius Ericius.
>Senator.
>Augur.
>Pontifex.
|
| Subject: |
How Excessive Government Killed Ancient Rome |
| From: |
"Robert Williamson" <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=194233250056127134015037190036129" >robert@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:22:12 -0500 |
|
Salvé: Although I have been pretty quiet for some time, I have kept up on what has been going on in Nova Roma and continue to be a loyal Nova Roman. (Yes, I think some sort of tax payment is only fair, Nova Roma should have some reasonable income.) I have found what I consider to be an interesting site dealing with the government of Ancient Rome. It deals primarily with the Empire, but does have some mention of the Republic as well. I hope you find this interesting and would be interested in any comments.
<a href="http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html" target="_top" >http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html</a>
Valé: Appius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: How Excessive Government Killed Ancient Rome |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:45:27 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Appius Marcellus Cato;
An interesting essay indeed. Just proving as always that at the bottom
of most if not all national conflicts is the basc greed for wealth and
the need of controls to maintain free trade.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
