Salvete Luge Briganti et alii
You touch upon some interesting questions here. I have thought along
similar lines and would like to add a little bit. I hope that subscribers
to the religio and Vizantia lists won't mind this cross-post. I cross-post
because I think that there is some possible relevance for subscribers to
those lists. If I'm wrong, please delete it and forget it.
First off, I have no idea why the lares are depicted in Greek dress carrying
Greek rhytones. Sorry Vado. I can only offer speculation, that some Greek
statuettes made their way to Latium further back than our record goes.
These statuettes might have suggested lares to some notable patrician, who
acquired them and built a shrine around them in his domus. His clients and
guests might then have seen this shrine, and striven to imitate it. If
Roman deity images drew heavily from Greek ones, I see no reason to deny the
possibility that the statuary depictions of lares could have been imitations
of some Greek statuary.
One reason to deny this would be the idea that the lares were purely Latin,
having no analog in Hellenic religion. Of course I don't know whether this
assertion is true, but I suspect that it isn't. In previous threads,
Ericius has offered information on Etruscan deities that likely influenced
the development of lares in religio romana. And, other cultures also have
spirits associated with place (more on that later).
It's possible, even if my speculation is true, that the imitated Greek
statuette(s) represented something entirely different, not analogous to
lares. I mention this possibility to acknowledge my own failure to answer
Vado's question, and invite other people to try instead.
> >>
>
> no offence, but has anyone considered carving your own statuary? i
know
>were are not all artisans,
A member of my gens, Sextus Marius Australis, does this. I have seen
pictures of his lararium, and a statue of Diana that he made. I do not have
these skills, and I suspect that only a tiny few have them.
but when you make your own icons, they become
>embodied with our spirit as well as the lar and pentaes.
This makes sense to me, but I would like to point out that one can imbue
with spiritual meaning a representation (picture, statue, other) totally of
someone else's making, or noone's making. Actually, if this weren't so, of
what use would that black stone have been to the worshippers of Magna Mater?
What I have thought more about is -- what are the lares et penates, beyond
the forms of their representations? The short answer is spirits of the
home, and spirits of the hearth. This answer leaves me with more questions.
But first, your question:
oh yes, considering
>Roman relgion, we have reccords of settlers and soldiers leaving votie
>offerings to Gods in native or newly conqured land, or even civilied
>proviences. would it be appropite, for those of us in the U.S., to leave
>offerings to native american land spirts.
For whatever it is worth, I would say probably yes. More below.
i always do, as i consider it a
>sign of respect for the local spirits. we occupy their land, and likewise,
we
>should not take them for granted beacuse of it.
Well, the land that I occupy is mine, to the extent that land belongs to any
human being. That means that I have a relationship with that land, the
obligation to do as much as I can to clear dead trees and brush to make room
for the healthy, prevent fires and protect everything on it. I believe
that, if one enters this sort of relationship with the land, the local
spirits of the land join with you. "Your" local spirits (in my case, lares
et penates) are the local spirits of the locus. If one abuses one's own
land, one cannot worship spirits of the place, no matter how you try to
worship them or what you call them, whosever they are. I would think it
quite appropriate to honor spirits of place by their American indian names,
if one knew the spirits by those names and felt that he/she were visiting
the land.
My question: are lares et penates indigenous to places, or are they
associated with families? Or, is this a false dichotomy?
I saw an interesting article last week (may still be there --
<a href="http://www.russiatoday.com/features.php3?id=135907" target="_top" >http://www.russiatoday.com/features.php3?id=135907</a>) about superstitions in
Russia. I have been to Russia and known quite a few people from there and
neighboring countries, and I have been under the impression that the three
quarters of a century or so of communism and state promotion of atheistic
materialism had pretty much stamped out religion and sprituality there, not
just orthodox christianity but judaism and other forms as well. I was
surprised by the suggestion of this article that some forms of ritualistic
behavior (naturally called superstitions, since the author and intended
audience aren't supposed to subscribe to them) are very widespread there
today. But, when I thought about my own surprise, I recalled the custom of
sitting down together before setting out on a trip as an act to do for its
own sake with one of my acquaintances who had never seemed to me to be
atypically spiritual or superstitious. Of particular interest to me here is
the notion of the domovoy, the household spirit. It seems that some
Russians believe that houses have spirits indigenous to them.
>
>Smooth Roads
>
>Lugus Brigantius
>
Valete
C Marius Merullus
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Salve, Luge Briganti!
These are good words. Does it matter more or less where one lives, though?
For myself, I think it an excellent sentiment, fully in accord with the
spirit of the Religio Romana and a good way of empathising with the local
spirits, no matter where one is.
A long-term project of mine (in other words, I've been putting it off for
the past five years) is to carve just such an image dedicated to the genius
that lives in my garden. I have the wood (a large branch of apple I had to
take off), I have the wood chisels, I have no previous experience. No doubt
I shall suprise myself when I do get around to having a go. I hope I shall
still boast my full complement of fingers after I have surprised myself...
Pace deorum,
Vado.
> no offence, but has anyone considered carving your own statuary? i
>know
>were are not all artisans, but when you make your own icons, they become
>embodied with our spirit as well as the lar and pentaes. oh yes,
>considering
>Roman relgion, we have reccords of settlers and soldiers leaving votie
>offerings to Gods in native or newly conqured land, or even civilied
>proviences. would it be appropite, for those of us in the U.S., to leave
>offerings to native american land spirts. i always do, as i consider it a
>sign of respect for the local spirits. we occupy their land, and likewise,
>we
>should not take them for granted beacuse of it.
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