Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes, again
From:	"Donald and Crystal Meaker" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 01:01:15 -0000

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, Lucius Cornelius Sulla alexious@e...
wrote:
> Salve
>
> As I have responded to most everyone....I am only off of work on
Monday and
> Tuesday. Those are the main days I have to work. I have a list of
people
> that I have to get voter codes for. I try to fluctuate between
getting
> voter codes, working on the Tribes and Centuries, and processing new
> applications. So that I dont get bored with the work.
>
> I did get your e-mail, it goes right to a separate folder
(filtering gotta
> love it). You will be getting your voter code on Monday or Tuesday.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>



Thanks. I thought it had to be a misunderstanding.

AICrysM

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Rufa Paula Cornelia
From:
Date:	Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:50:35 EDT

In a message dated 4/2/2000 1:26:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132100020254093198016200200028114253071048139" >DTibbe2926@--------</--------; writes:

<< We'll be quoting Magna Carta next! >>
What's the Magna Carter???
QFM

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Rufa Paula Cornelia
From:
Date:	Sun, 2 Apr 2000 18:56:41 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=061044104089235135169082190036" >sfp55@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Rufa Paula Cornelia


> In a message dated 4/2/2000 1:26:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132100020254093198016200200028114253071048139" >DTibbe2926@--------</--------; writes:
>
> << We'll be quoting Magna Carta next! >>
> What's the Magna Carter???
> QFM

Jimmy Carter's sister...or was it his Mother?
Sulla Felix

Subject:	The "legitimization" of the Religio
From:	Donald and Crystal Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a>
Date:	Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:59:21 -0500

Salvete,


The social worker in charge of Terrys adoption has reviewed our religion
(our meaning Don and I, at least) and, with the help of letters from a
couple of good practioners of the Religio has prepared a summary of the
Religio Romana (a.k.a. Roman Paganism). She believes there will be no
problem in securing the adoption, regardless of our religion. If anyone
would like, we can try (most likely after the adoption, which is
scheduled for August) to secure this document and post it for all to see.

This will be the first time (in our knowledge) that the Religio Romana
has been brought into the light as a legimate religion. I do not know if
this is enough "president" or not, but it is a beginning. Paganism has
no voice because too many are willing to hide behind either lies or the
claim of historical interest. No wonder they can still kill us off and
continue to discriminate against us. The papers used in the adoption
will also be used in another court battle in Texas.

Don and I would like to thank our supporters, especially Quintus Fabius
Maximus and Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus for their personal letters
regarding the Religio and (actually more important) their practice of
it).

To those who say the gods do not exist. In Texas they do. Now.


Donald and Crystal Meaker (and Terry Brewton -- who will be a Meaker in
August)
Gaius Iunius Placidus and Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Materna (and Prima
Iunia Terrelina)

Through my constant care, my husband flourished.
-From an epitaph found at Rome (1st century B.C.)

Subject:	HELP!!
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:13:00 +0930

Salve,

I am currently working on a Uni essay and I need help!! It is a simple
enough question really but I can't find an answer in any of my sources!!

Was the Republican era noble family of the Domitius Ahenobarbus' patrician
or plebiean?

Any help greatly appreciated :-)

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Pontiff

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] HELP!!
From:
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 01:05:56 -0700

It was Plebian :)

Sulla Felix
Censor

"M. Arcadius" wrote:

> Salve,
>
> I am currently working on a Uni essay and I need help!! It is a simple
> enough question really but I can't find an answer in any of my sources!!
>
> Was the Republican era noble family of the Domitius Ahenobarbus' patrician
> or plebiean?
>
> Any help greatly appreciated :-)
>
> Marcus Arcadius Pius
> Pontiff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/954747893/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/954747893/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Freedom of Speech
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:00:48 +0100

Salvete T Labiene Fortunate, Marce Apolloni Formosane, M. Muci Scaevola
Magister et al

>Fortunatus:
>Surely you cant believe that Festus should be *executed* for his
statement,
>regardless of how distasteful. True, he should have phrased it as a
statement
>of belief, and not of fact. Still, who among us has not committed that
venial
>sin?
Of course I want no executions. But the capital crime in NR is punished with
removal of citizenship. Nevertheless, as Festus has alsready recognised that
it was the way he said his belief that shocked people, I consider him
apologized. Of course I'm (and Nova Roma is) open to philosophical debate,
with the condition that we state our beliefs (or disbeliefs) in the Religio
as personal thought and respect the Religio as least as an important part of
Roman Law.

>Magister:
>1) As far as my reading goes, the roman law crime of sacrilege, though
>ill-defined, was applied mainly to acts like interfering with,
>misappropriating or defacing sacred sites and property, rather than to
>speech whether public or private. However,
Wrong. There was a guy executed for public atheism. I shall bring the name
tomorrow.

>Festus:
>Naturally then, we should not be surprised at his claim that our thinking
of
>something proves its existence. For if something exists only as an object
of
>thought, it would cease to exist once we stopped thinking about it. And
that
>would be a change, which Parmenides held is an illusion. But, if nothing
>changes, where is Parmenides today?
What if he is right? And you then continue:

>Festus:
>The trouble is that Parmenides is wrong. We all see in our common sense
>experiences, every day, that things do in fact change.
Dear Festus... What Parmenides stated as an illusion was precisely the
common sense experience. So, you are not proving he is wrong. You are just
stating it. Again: our common sense experiences can be an illusion.

>And we all know,
>again, in our common sense lives, that things do not exist just because we

>may think of them.
That is as difficult to proof as the existence of the Gods.

>The universe
>of objects of thought is vastly larger than the universe of actually
existing
>things, for the former includes the latter, as well as objects of the
>imagination. I can think of things which no longer exist {Parmenides,
Julius
>Caesar}, things that do exist independently of our mind {the moon, the sun}
>or things that do not exist at all {Godzilla, Mary Poppins}.
That's because you are thinking about matter only. Plato provides an
explanation for Parmenides' statement stating that change belongs to matter
while the Ideas of Archetypes do not change.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a>
To: INTERNET:<a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:59 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Freedom of Speech


>Salvete!
>
>I think the debate about freedom of speech is slightly misdirected.
>
>1) As far as my reading goes, the roman law crime of sacrilege, though
>ill-defined, was applied mainly to acts like interfering with,
>misappropriating or defacing sacred sites and property, rather than to
>speech whether public or private. However,
>
>2) Though Nova Roma is a micronation, it is also a religious
>reconstructionist organisation. There are plenty of classical and/or Roman
>studies groups which are not commited to the revival of the Religio Romana;
>NR provides the main space for those of us who are committed to the
>Religio. In this context freedom of speech within NR is less like freedom
>of speech within a territorial state which disposes of coercion, like the
>USA, and more like freedom of speech within a church or church
>organisation. People who can't resist taking the opportunity to publicly
>denounce the religion don't belong in an organisation devoted to that
>religion, and their freedom of speech is not infringed by preventing them
>speaking in those terms; since they can speak in those terms ANYWHERE ELSE
>(caps to substitute for italics for quiet emphasis, not to shout). On the
>contrary, using the resources of a religious group to denounce the
>religious beliefs of the group is a denial of the freedom of speech and
>association of the believers.
>
>Valete,
>
>M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
>Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
>0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
>Apply NOW!
><a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/954669545/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/954669545/</a>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Subject:	[Fwd: Woops....]
From:
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 02:15:56 -0700

Salvete.

Here is someone who has requested information. I dont know the answers, maybe someone on the list here might be able to help. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Jesse Hamilton wrote:

> Consul Sulla, Lucius Cornelius.
>
>
> Sorry for sending the last letter with nothing on it, my finger slipped on the keyboard.
>
> First, thank-you for responding to my Email so quickly. It is nice to meet people with the same interests. My main area of focus at the moment is the first "triumvirate" of Ceasar, Crassus, and Pompey. I really need to find out the names of the legions just befor the civilwar between Ceasar and Pompey, and their locations.
>
> Due to my location, I'm limited in the historical references I can access. From Plutarch's "Lives", there is mention of Ceasar's highly skilled X Legion, but I can not find the name (Victrix?).
>
> Brian Campbell's "The Roman Army", has good maps of Legion locations, and their names, from II Augusta to III Parthia (33 legions in all), but this is from the Empire, not the late Republic.
>
> Can you help me with the names of the Legions and thier locations from c.56 B.C. to c.5 A.D.?
>
> I would be most grateful. Also, please tell me more about your interesting organization. I've only heard about it by word of mouth. Can anyone join? Even a Plebian?(ha-ha).
>
> I Eagerly await your reply with hope of an answer to my problem, and further discussion about your organization.
>
> ----- Namius Pyphonus.
>
> Send FREE April Fool's Greetings to your friends!
> <a href="http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/American_Greetings.rdct" target="_top" >http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/American_Greetings.rdct</a>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] HELP!!
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:02:22 +0930

Thank you.

Arcadius Pius

> It was Plebian :)
>
> Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> "M. Arcadius" wrote:
>
> > Salve,
> >
> > I am currently working on a Uni essay and I need help!! It is a simple
> > enough question really but I can't find an answer in any of my sources!!
> >
> > Was the Republican era noble family of the Domitius Ahenobarbus'
patrician
> > or plebiean?
> >
> > Any help greatly appreciated :-)
> >
> > Marcus Arcadius Pius
> > Pontiff
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> > 1. Fill in the brief application
> > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> > Apply NOW!
> > <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/954747893/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/954747893/</a>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/954753614/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/954753614/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Subject:	Kyrinia is back...
From:	"Kyrene" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198015242190036129" &--------yrene@--------</a&--------/td>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:21:21 -0400

Salvete all,

I'm back, I was on a vacation for the past three days and am now EXTREMELY
behind on email, and amazed at how quickly the issue of the "gods do not
exist" poster was handled. I'm glad to see that so many people stood behind
the Religio, and I'm quite happy.

I should be back on routine shortly. I'm still behind on email, but I got a
lot done this weekend, so it's all well and good.




Vale et khaire,

Kyrinia



-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527</a> *=-
-=* ~The Tholos~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAriadne *=-

Subject:	Severus;
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:33:07 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, My Friend;

I hope that your opportunities to post on the list will be reater rather
than fewer in the future. As always, I enjoy your commentaries and
comments.

To the NR Citizenship:-

My friend Severus is the gentleman who introduced me to my gens Audens.
He rescued me from an awful Greek name, and acted as my guide (If you
will allow that familiarity Severus) into the Roman Military World of
today. He also provided quite a bit of salty advice aong the way, and
answered many of my early questions. He and I have another element in
common, which he may not realize, and that is that as a Revolutionary
War Re-enactor I play the part of the Adjutant for the Royal Highland
Regiment=42nd Regiment of Foot and an Asst. Crown Engineer. During
those re-eactment periods, my thoughts regarding the US Constitution and
the War of Rebellion are very similar to his (Grin!!!!!).

I realize that this may be off topic to some degree, but I wanted to
welcome him and his candor back to the Onelist!!! I hope that you may
spend more time with us in the future than in the past, and I thank you
again for your efforts on my behalf.

Vale, Respectfully and in Friendship;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	WereWolf
From:
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:06:48 -0400

Greetings!

Does anyone know as to where I may find an English translation of
Petronius'
The Werewolf ?

Tacitus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [ReligioRomana] The "legitimization" of the Religio
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:23:05 +0100

Salvete Gai Iuni Placide Amethystia Iunia Crystallina Maternaque et Prima
Iunia Terrelina

I would like you to know that I'm very proud of your efforts for the
Religio and that what you are doing is very very important. It is indeed a
big step for the Religio Romana. I'm sure that the Gods will favour your
effort.

Please, feel free to ask me anything you need.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex - Senator - Praetor - Propraetor Lusitaniae

Subject:	De Blasphemia Horribilissima
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:44:39 PDT

Salvete mei populari atque peregrini

To answer one part of Fimbria's admirable post on the subject of a few days
ago, I am in complete agreement with the point made about philosophy
strengthening (and, maybe, maturing) one's faith.

Therefore, in the hope of lightening things up a little, I challenge Festus
to prove that HE exists (if he accepts the challenge but loses the debate,
at least he won't be able to suffer the fate decreed for Socrates for
alleged blasphemy by the Republic of Athens) (id est, terminated existence,
because he shall have been proved not to have existed at all). I say this
without prejudice (as Scaevola magister would say), as I am in complete
agnosis as to whether Festus exists (or not).

Bene valete in pace deorum, pace Festo,

N. Moravius Vado.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Rufa Paula Cornelia
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:55:38 +0100

> > << We'll be quoting Magna Carta next! >>
> > What's the Magna Carter???
> > QFM
>
> Jimmy Carter's sister...or was it his Mother?
> Sulla Felix

- His mother, definitely: Magna Mater Carter ;-)
- Vado.

Subject:	Population Decreasing?
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:07:34 EDT

Salvete Everyone!

I was looking on the Novaroma.org website to see when the next market day
chat would be. I noticed that the Current Population was at 411.

I remember clearly that when I joined Nova Roma in December the Current
Population listed over 800. Did the population drastically drop? Or was
there a big error during the rein of our last webmaster?

Vale

Iulius Thompsonus

Faber est suae quisque fortunae.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Market Day (was Population Decreasing)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:23:53 +0100

Salvete

For your information, although it is still not updated, the next market day
is April 9th (the last was on April 1st). The rule of thumb is to count with
a period of 9 days.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

Subject:	Roman History Website Moved
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:35:24 EDT

Salvete!

I have moved my website about Roman History from:
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/RomaImperia/RomaImperia" target="_top" >http://members.xoom.com/RomaImperia/RomaImperia</a>

to:
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/RomanaImperia" target="_top" >http://members.tripod.com/RomanaImperia</a>

I moved the website to Tripod because Xoom had been insufferably slow for the
past few months. Also I'm still working to create new Material for the
website.

Vale

Iulius Thompsonus

Post Scriptum: If you have a website or potential website that you would like
for me to design in a simmilar format to my Roman History Website, just email
me! <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246243113180119209184102159248147208071048" >St--------eck@--------</--------;

Subject:	Re: Population Decreasing?
From:	"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:55:36 -0400

Salve

That was either a typo (most likely) or a highly anomalous migration. I'm
fairly certain that it must have been a typo, because the number of voter
codes (equal to the number of citizens) issued in December was in the 300's.

The population reached 100 sometime in mid-1998, and has been growing fairly
steadily since then. While a few people have left, more have joined,
resulting in an ever-increasing number of citizens. Subscription to this
main list has grown similarly from 40 or so in Sept. 1998 to 179 today.

Valete

Gaius Marius Merullus

>I was looking on the Novaroma.org website to see when the next market day
>chat would be. I noticed that the Current Population was at 411.
>
>I remember clearly that when I joined Nova Roma in December the Current
>Population listed over 800. Did the population drastically drop? Or was
>there a big error during the rein of our last webmaster?
>
>Vale
>
>Iulius Thompsonus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Population Decreasing?
From:
Date:	Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:29:54 -0700

Salve.

Nova Roma has never had a population of over 500 people. Currnetly the
population (without pending applicants) is over 411 people. The Population
for a LONG time was listed at 378, if you notice the Roman Numerals under the
citizen number (in arabic numerals) they still reflect the older number.
When our webmaster starts updating the site again, I am sure that will be
corrected. Nova Roma is at its highest number of citizens and continues to
grow every week! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=246243113180119209184102159248147208071048" >St--------eck@--------</--------; wrote:

> Salvete Everyone!
>
> I was looking on the Novaroma.org website to see when the next market day
> chat would be. I noticed that the Current Population was at 411.
>
> I remember clearly that when I joined Nova Roma in December the Current
> Population listed over 800. Did the population drastically drop? Or was
> there a big error during the rein of our last webmaster?
>
> Vale
>
> Iulius Thompsonus
>
> Faber est suae quisque fortunae.


<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=034166250009056116130232203056129208071" &g--------bienus@--------&l--------&g--------td>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Freedom of Speech and a Philosophical Ramble
From:
Date:	Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:18:05 US/Central

Salve Antoni Grylle

> Of course I want no executions. But the capital crime in NR is punished
> with removal of citizenship.

Ah, I see. I read capital in its sense of "requiring death," whereas you meant
it as "foremost in importance." Considering the importance placed on the
religio in our republic, I withdraw my objection to the word.

> Wrong. There was a guy executed for public atheism. I shall bring the name
> tomorrow.

I look forward to reading this, as I have never heard of such a case. The
closest I've seen is Apuleius' Apology, in which he defends himself against
allegations of (among many other things) atheism. In his case, he was facing
exile. Please do supply as many details as possible.

> >And we all know, again, in our common sense lives, that things do not exist
> >just because we may think of them.
> That is as difficult to proof as the existence of the Gods.

True. However, to claim that what our senses show to us is entirely illusion
is to claim that we can never know anything. It is impossible to disprove as a
position, but it inevitably descends to solipsism.

> That's because you are thinking about matter only. Plato provides an
> explanation for Parmenides' statement stating that change belongs to
> matter while the Ideas of Archetypes do not change.

And here we hit one of the great insoluble debates: that between spiritualists
and materialists. I usually lean toward the materialist side, though I cannot
bring myself to entirely deny the claims of the spiritualists. (Neither side,
BTW, necessarily accepts nor denies the existence of the gods.)

It is impossible to disprove the claim that there is some thing which exists,
but which is not perceptible by human senses and is not quantifiable by human
sciences. However, the inability to disprove a thing does not constitute proof
of that thing.

And so, left with neither proof nor disproof of the spiritualist stance, I am
left with only reason and personal preference with which to attempt to grasp a
truth that, by its very nature, will forever elude me. Reason dictates that I
must trust my senses, which are useless in this case. Personal preference
dictates that I join the spiritualist camp, but, as my preference is stronger
or weaker on any given day and gradually changes over time, it is a fickle and
unstable thing to base a system of belief upon--especially since I maintain
that Truth is constant.

Hence my simultaneous distaste and deep respect for Plato.

Vale,
T Labienus Fortunatus