| Subject: |
Censor update |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:23:36 -0700 |
|
All Votercodes are going to be going out tonite. I have been working on the dramatic influx of applications I recieved over this past week.
Tonite I should mail out voter codes for those individuals who have requested.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
WebMaster Update?? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:37:13 -0700 |
|
Salve!
Has anyone heard from our webmaster?
I have sent updates in regards to some Edicta's and the Album Gentium but I havent seen any updates on the website.
Also, the Roman Numerals are incorrect.....I have e-mailed him privately a few times but I have not gotten any response...and I am hoping someone here has heard from him. :)
The Album Civium is almost complete....So that will be sent to him soon too.... :)
I apologize for putting this on the list....but I keep getting citizens e-mailing me...about this....LOL and all I can do is refer them to him. :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ancient paganism and mythology of Indo-Europeans |
| From: |
Megas-Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Wed, 05 Apr 2000 20:09:27 -0500 |
|
Hailsan Allir,
Piparskegg here:
Found this on the soc.religion.pagan newsgroup. Thought it might be of interest.
In Frith under Troth - Piparskegg
=================================================================================
Date: 3 April 2000
Re : The Indo-European Database online
A new scientific project was launched today on the Web. Ten leading websites devoted to
linguistic, historical and cultural studies of Europe and Asia merged to create The Indo-European
Database, the widest and most reliable source of academic knowledge about Indo-European languages,
history, archaeology, and mythology.
The Indo-European Database (TIED) provides a wide range of brand new issues of research in
linguistic and historical area, grammars and glossaries, publications and etymologies written and
collected by the Members. Joint projects will be implemented in the field of Indo-European studies.
Besides, the Indo-European Forum, a part of TIED, acting since September, 1999, has been renovated
to satisfy all needs of the interested audience.
The Indo-European Database always welcomes new Members and Authors who would like to contribute
to the research of social sciences and who is willing to carry new ideas and theories to the
audience. The Database is a non-commercial project, all its materials are free for everyone.
See The Indo-European Database at: <a href="http://indoeuropean.cjb.net" target="_top" >http://indoeuropean.cjb.net</a>
See the Indo-European Forum also at: <a href="http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist" target="_top" >http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist</a>
Cyril Babaev - TIED Administrator - <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=051176091009018153241134203043129208071" >KirillVB@--------</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] WebMaster Update?? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:46:12 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/5/2000 6:37:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< Has anyone heard from our webmaster? >>
Salvete
I echo L. Cornelius. If anyone has information on Gnaeus Tarquinius, please
contact the consules.
Valete
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: [Civil War Legiones] |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:11:57 EDT |
|
In a me--------e dated 4/5/00 2:01:33 PM EST, <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> write--------r>
<< Salve, Fabi Maxime Consul:
>Before I send a private e-mail to this person, I was wondering if any
>other citizens was interested in this information.
>>
Sounds interesting, I'd like to know, too.
Drusus Cornelius Claudius
|
| Subject: |
Re: WebMaster Update?? |
| From: |
"Luciu--------riu--------mbria" <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 02:39:59 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes...
> << Has anyone heard from our webmaster? >>
He's on his honeymoon, isn't he...?
-- L Marius Fimbria (quizzically)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: WebMaster Update?? |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:50:18 -0700 |
|
what honeymoon?
SF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luciu--------riu--------mbria" <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 7:39 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: WebMaster Update??
> Salvete omnes...
>
> > << Has anyone heard from our webmaster? >>
>
> He's on his honeymoon, isn't he...?
>
> -- L Marius Fimbria (quizzically)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/4/_/61050/_/954988808/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/4/_/61050/_/954988808/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 20:25:06 -0700 |
|
Salvete Citizens!
As you all know there are some vacant position in this upcoming election....one of them is for the Office of the Censor. This position is instrumental in the continuing growth of Nova Roma. The Constitution states that there must be two Censors. However, that reason is not why I am writing this e-mail. The reason I am writing this e-mail is to appeal to our Citzens that this office is one that MUST be filled. As most of you know I have put in many hours fixing holes in citizen entries, approving new applications, changing citizen entries, entering voter codes, speaking to people on the phone, answering questions, updating Century points, Tribes and Century Placements and probably many other issues that I cannot remember while I am writing this email. Since the time I have became Censor I have approved over 50 applications so far. We all know, in our recent past, what happens when our Censors were not able to accomplish their duties. Yet, here we are, with only ONE Censor. I have told the Senate I can do the work, however that was before I was scheduled for Surgery on May 11. Since my Censorial colleague resigned I have maintained the database and basically been working on my own. And, if no candidate steps forward, that would mean I have no associate til January next year.
Please keep in mind that the job of a Censor is a very large responsibility. Just look at when we approve a new citizen. Every new citizen that is approved, needs new century points, Tribe and Century placement, and a voter code. Not only that but the Censors are the main point of contact for Governor's. Without us, our governors are unable to know they have new citizens (and to this date, I have only been able to give that information to our Governor in the SE provincia and the governor of California). Just as we are the focal point with our Rogatores in the sense that the Rogatores get all voter codes from us as well (Only Helena Cornelia has this list, since she is my scribe). Basically, this means that this position is of paramount importance to the continued growth and political stability of Nova Roma.
I have tried my best to meet the requirements of this office. However, let me state that this IS the busiest office in Nova Roma (just ask any of our previous Censors: Marcus Cassius, Decius Iunius and Flavius Vedius). As someone who has completed the entire Cursus Honorum in Nova Roma I can say that with all honesty and truthfulness. This is an office that MUST be filled.
Finally, I do have some plans that I would like to implement in Nova Roma. Such as the creation of a part of the website where we can list our ICQ #'s, AIM names, Yahoo and MSN handles. Some other plans I cant recall at the moment, since I am at work. :) But I wont be able to implement any of them if I am to remain sole Censor, since most of my time will be devoted to maintaining and correcting issues that on the citizen database and the Albums.
The requirements of office are simple: Excel, E-mail. The ability to deal with people (citizens and non-citizens), the ability to be online ALOT, Diligent, customer service oriented, able to put in at least 3-5 hours a week doing essentially office work. Detail oriented. Likes to solve problems.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Webmaster Cont'd |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:51:12 -0700 |
|
Just wanted to let everyone know I have heard from Caesar. :) He is alive and well...but his computer isn't... :) Just wanted to let everyone know!
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Does Festus Exist??? (long) |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 01:23:37 EDT |
|
Salve, M. Scaevola Magister,
I read your post with much interest. So much in fact, that I printed it
out and read it more than once. Believe it or not, most of what you say I
have no problem with. I think we are in more agreement than is immediately
apparent.
Before I respond to the main body of your post, there are a few other
matters.
You said, "Festus opened this discussion by asserting the Gods do not
exist....It is not up to us believers {in this discussion opened by Festus}
to prove that the gods exist: the burdon of proof is on Festus".
This is incorrect on both counts.
1. I did NOT open this discussion. That was done by Antonius Gryllus
Graecus. He wrote, on 3/30, "I think that the exchange of ideas should not
be completely free in Rome, particularly in what concerns the Religio Romana.
To blasphemate the Gods of
Rome is to bring their wrath over all nation." And later that same day, he
said, "One is free to practice whatever religion he chooses, provided that
the official Gods of Rome are not insulted or blasphemated."
Graecus was the one who initiated talk of the gods. My statement that they
do not exist was in response to his own. Please re-read Graecus' comments.
There are three theological claims in them.
{a} It is assumed that the gods actually exist. This is necessary for,
{b} that they can "vent wrath", and
{c} they can be insulted and 'blasphemated' {sic}
So, I did not initiate the "god-talk" here. But even if I did, it would make
no difference as to the question of burdon of proof. The one making a
positive claim always has the burdon of proof. In a criminal court, the one
making the positive claim is the prosecutor. He claims that John Doe
committed such-and-such a crime on such-and-such a date.
It is up to the prosecution to prove their case. All the defense has to do
is show that the arguments of the prosecutor do not prove the defendant is
guilty. Another example will drive this home. Suppose Stupidicus Maximus
accused you of being a potential pedophile, and that you entertain depraved
fantasies of children. Then Stupidicus Maximus shifts the burdon of proof to
you. Can you PROVE that you have never had depraved fantasies of children?
Of course not. None of us here could come up with such a proof! But
Stupidicus made the positive claim, and so therefore HE has the burdon of
proof!
You then said, "....we are not obliged to prove the existence of the Gods to
the satisfaction of Festus on a list whose purpose is to promote their
worship;
and the curator of the list would be entitled to intervene to shut this
discussion down and arguably should do so."
May I ask then, what the Religio mailing lists are for? Can you imagine what
would have happened had someone made that remark on the Religio mailing list?
The "controversy" here {which was actually a tantrum by some fanatical
religious bigots} would have looked downright pleasant and happy by
comparison.
Another Religio member here made a short and sweet theological statement
concerning the gods. "Our Gods demand Festus to apologize. Not to do it is
nefas". So, if we add this to Graecus remarks, we can conclude that the
Roman Gods exist, can vent wrath, can be insulted, and can demand apologies.
{Why the gods, if they are have power to vent wrath, are unable to complain
to me personally and instead have to have posters like that speak for them
was not explained. If they exist, maybe they really do not care if I say
they are real or not}
When I replied to Graecus, my response was in the context of the ROMAN gods.
I said they do not exist and stand by that statement. For 2900 years, since
Homer is believed to have composed his Illiad, there has been no compelling
reason given to believe that the Olympians actually exist, outside of
literature and our imaginations. The Tooth Fairy has as good a claim to
existence as do they. I do not know if you have been following the
discussion between Graecus, Fortunatas, and myself. Graecus began his
defense by asserting that the fact we can think of them proves they exist.
Since then, he has seemed to be retreating from his original certainty, and
as of his last posting, he seems to have conceded that the counter-arguments
raised by Fortunatas and myself are equally possible. {You may be right, but
you may be wrong} So the "proof" he began with has proven to be not a proof
at all.
This now brings me to your exposition of your theology, in which you explain
how you "ceased to be an atheist and {became} a neoroman pagan". Since Nova
Roma has no "creed" for it's religio members, I will not assume that your
beliefs or approach is necessarily shared by all other neoRoman pagans.
Let me cut to the chase. The truth is, you are still, in fact, an atheist.
What you have done is to take theological terminology, and apply them to
natural, material things. You are a pantheist. I have long called pantheism
{and please do not take this personally} a chicken-form of atheism. It is
atheism, dressed with "god-talk" to look like a form of theism. If you strip
away the names of the gods and the other religious terminology, your position
is really no different from the atheists and humanists I have known over the
years.
You begin by saying that I claim that I claim that "only those things exist
which have consequences in the perceptible world and that the gods do not act
in the perceptible world".
How do you then begin to refute this? You claim that the sun, ocean,
weather, the earth all exist and have effects in the perceptible world! You
just give these things the names of Apollo, Neptune, Jupiter, and Ceres. I
do not. Of course the ocean has effects on the world. It is A PART of the
natural world! So, your statement could be re-written to say, "Natural
things exist in and affect the natural world". This is not theology, but
tautology. It is like a Christian saying, "To sin is most sinful". And for
the record, no atheist I know {and certainly not I} denies the universe and
it's constituent parts exists.
You then say, "The question is whether we should think
of these causal powers as mechanisms (as yet imperfectly explained), the
(more or less sophisticated) materialist view; as either mechanical
creations, or providential operations of a single omnipotent, etc., god,
(the monotheist view); or as agents which have an active role in our
destiny, the (polytheistic pagan view)."
Actually, your polytheistic pagan view is not a third position at all. Both
the materialist and the monotheist can and DO agree with number three,
because since these things exist, and since they do affect our lives, they
have an "active role" in our lives. They are indeed "agents" of change,
growth, and the like. Your choice of the word "destiny" is most appropriate
here however. It is my view that pantheism/atheism, being identical though
with different vocabularies, are both philosophically incompatible with the
notion of "free will". Since human beings cannot have free will in this
view, "destiny" is a most appropriate word for our end. Because of the
length of this post amd the depth of the subject, I will save discussion of
free will for some other time.
Following this, you say, " Hence, the claim that the Gods do not act in the
perceptible world is, in reality, a claim either (i) that our prayers are not
always
answered, so that we cannot prove the existence of the Gods by experiment
or (ii) that postulating the Gods is not necessary to relating our lives to
the causal powers in the world (hence all the science stuff), so that by
applying Occam's Razor (the argument that imperceptible entities should be
kept to the minimum required for explanation) we should refuse to postulate
them."
I respond as follows:
1. No atheist or agnostic argues that the gods do not act in the perceptible
world because our prayers are not always answered. We do not pray because
prayers are never answered! :} Seriously though, prayers do not properly
belong in a discussion of the alleged existence of the gods for the simple
reason that there is no way to verify that they are answered at all. Look at
it this way: If a man prays for a sick friend to get well, and he does get
well, he will assume the deity answered his prayer with a Yes. If the friend
does not get well, he assumes the deity said No. But if the friend gets
well, the unbeliever will point out that sick people get well everyday, and
well people get sick everyday, and so there is no proof that the deity cured
him. If the sick friend does not get well, the unbeliever is not surprised,
since he does not believe in prayer anyway.
So the prayer question has no bearing here. Whether the sick man gets well,
or stays ill, or even dies, the believer will believe that the prayer was
answered {even if the answer was No} and the unbeliever will not believe it
was answered at all, {even if the sick man recovers}. Since both sides
attitudes towards prayer are based on their respective belief sets, the
introduction of the topic pf prayer inevitably leads to both sides begging
the question.
Following this, your next section is not one I have much disagreement with at
all. You basically touch on the facts of our epistemic limitations,
illustrated by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and chaotic systems, and
these are facts that the atheists, agnostics, monotheists, polytheists, etc,
can all agree with. In my years with the so-called "freethought movement",
during which I was sucessively involved with nearly every thing from the
Society of Evangelical Agnostics {defunct} to the American Atheists to the
American Humanist Association to the Council for Democratic and Secular
Humanism, I have known of these limitations, and no atheist or humanist I
knew believed we could know everything. As for complexity and emergent
characteristics....these are old hat! If you were arguing with a 19th
century freethinker, you might have an opponent here!
Towards the end of your post, you finally come to what appears to be the real
reason for your 'conversion': You are afraid. Specifically, you are afraid
of great technological advance without a similar advance in human wisdom, and
in the face of possible errors and unforseen consequences.
Hey, I do not blame you! I actually am on your side here. I am very
unnerved by the fact that not a single advance has not been misused or
perverted into a weapon of some kind. The development of robots and
artificial intelligence can give me chills, to say nothing of genetic
engineering.
But I do blame you for basing this conversion of yours on the false
polarization between the "nature revering pagan" and the "nature abusing
atheist/scientist/fill in the blank".
The truth is, atheists, agnostics, deists, Christians, Jews, all can respect
both nature and our limitations. It is people who simply do not either care,
or are ignorant of these real concerns, that are the threat. And they are to
be found paying lip service to any creed or belief system. Pagans are no
different. Have you ever seen the trashy mess left behind after one of their
Earth Day rallies?
Anthropomorphizing.....yes, we all do it to an extent. One of my best
buddies is my little furry friend, my cat Frisky. I talk to him. I use
expressions like "she is a good car" or "mother earth" in conversations. But
regardless, I am always aware that they are NOT people. Such talk is
convention, but expresses no reality.
So, most people can and many do revere the natural world, atheists included.
They just don't dress it up in religious garb, pray to it, and make a
religion out of it, which is what you seem to have done. Aside from your
religious terminology, there is no difference between you and the atheists.
You just call material things "gods". They don't.
I have much more to say about pantheism, the free will question, and other
things. But the hour is very late, and that can take up a whole different
topic. So I will forgo that until some other time.
Best Wishes,
Gaius Lupinius Festus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 02:51:56 EDT |
|
Salve omnes!
I don't wish to sound as if I'm looking down upon everybody like I may
have seemed in the past. But it does bother me that noone will stand for the
position of Censor. I would do it in a second if I were old enough (I'm 18
now)! Not only the ability to serve Nova Roma in Her most important role in
Her most crucial early years, but the honor of sitting in the Senate with the
Republic's noble Fathers and Mothers! A dream for me!
For the Senate and the Roman People, Valete!
Drusus Cornlius Claudius
In a m--------g--------t--------/5/00 10:26:52 PM EST, <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< As you all know there are some vacant position in this upcoming
election....one of them is for the Office of the Censor. This position is
instrumental in the continuing growth of Nova Roma. The Constitution states
that there must be two Censors. However, that reason is not why I am writing
this e-mail. The reason I am writing this e-mail is to appeal to our Citzens
that this office is one that MUST be filled. As most of you know I have put
in many hours fixing holes in citizen entries, approving new applications,
changing citizen entries, entering voter codes, speaking to people on the
phone, answering questions, updating Century points, Tribes and Century
Placements and probably many other issues that I cannot remember while I am
writing this email. Since the time I have became Censor I have approved over
50 applications so far. We all know, in our recent past, what happens when
our Censors were not able to accomplish their duties. Yet, here we are, with
only ONE Censor. I have told the Senate I can do the work, however that was
before I was scheduled for Surgery on May 11. Since my Censorial colleague
resigned I have maintained the database and basically been working on my own.
And, if no candidate steps forward, that would mean I have no associate til
January next year.
Please keep in mind that the job of a Censor is a very large responsibility.
Just look at when we approve a new citizen. Every new citizen that is
approved, needs new century points, Tribe and Century placement, and a voter
code. Not only that but the Censors are the main point of contact for
Governor's. Without us, our governors are unable to know they have new
citizens (and to this date, I have only been able to give that information to
our Governor in the SE provincia and the governor of California). Just as we
are the focal point with our Rogatores in the sense that the Rogatores get
all voter codes from us as well (Only Helena Cornelia has this list, since
she is my scribe). Basically, this means that this position is of paramount
importance to the continued growth and political stability of Nova Roma.
I have tried my best to meet the requirements of this office. However, let
me state that this IS the busiest office in Nova Roma (just ask any of our
previous Censors: Marcus Cassius, Decius Iunius and Flavius Vedius). As
someone who has completed the entire Cursus Honorum in Nova Roma I can say
that with all honesty and truthfulness. This is an office that MUST be
filled.
Finally, I do have some plans that I would like to implement in Nova Roma.
Such as the creation of a part of the website where we can list our ICQ #'s,
AIM names, Yahoo and MSN handles. Some other plans I cant recall at the
moment, since I am at work. :) But I wont be able to implement any of them
if I am to remain sole Censor, since most of my time will be devoted to
maintaining and correcting issues that on the citizen database and the Albums.
The requirements of office are simple: Excel, E-mail. The ability to deal
with people (citizens and non-citizens), the ability to be online ALOT,
Diligent, customer service oriented, able to put in at least 3-5 hours a week
doing essentially office work. Detail oriented. Likes to solve problems.
>>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:16:01 EDT |
|
Citizens! How can this be? Not one of you wishes to be censor? I
constantly hear that you all wish to help Nova Roma, with many "pie in the
sky" schemes.
But the one thing that our micronation needs now, is someone standing for
censor.
And not one of you has stepped forward. I wish for all of you to dig down
deep inside. Is there not one of you willing to assume the responsibility?
To help Nova Roma at the place that is so important. Gaining more citizens.
Helping the nation grow. Again we and the Senate ask. Is there not one of
you willing to be censor?
Tomorrow is the last day to declare. Help your nation. Stand for censor.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus.
|
| Subject: |
I'm so sad... You did not understand... (was Does Festus Exist???) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:13:54 +0100 |
|
Salvete Festus, Saevola et omnes
There is much confusion here.
>You said, "Festus opened this discussion by asserting the Gods do not
>exist....It is not up to us believers {in this discussion opened by Festus}
>to prove that the gods exist: the burdon of proof is on Festus".
>
>This is incorrect on both counts.
>
>1. I did NOT open this discussion. That was done by Antonius Gryllus
>Graecus. He wrote, on 3/30, "I think that the exchange of ideas should not
>be completely free in Rome, particularly in what concerns the Religio
Romana.
>To blasphemate the Gods of
>Rome is to bring their wrath over all nation." And later that same day, he
>said, "One is free to practice whatever religion he chooses, provided that
>the official Gods of Rome are not insulted or blasphemated."
>Graecus was the one who initiated talk of the gods. My statement that they
>do not exist was in response to his own. Please re-read Graecus' comments.
>There are three theological claims in them.
Then you continue:
>{a} It is assumed that the gods actually exist. This is necessary for,
>{b} that they can "vent wrath", and
>{c} they can be insulted and 'blasphemated' {sic}
You are right. IT IS ASSUMED that the Gods actually exist. IT IS ASSUMED!
And it is a sacrilege to ASSUME OTHERWISE. That is Roman thought. That is
very first principle of our Constitution.
I believe you still do not understand the principle of what I'm saying. Ok.
I pass to explain better.
Marcus Minucius Audens is Consul. He had to make an oath of allegiance to
the Roman Gods. Well, but he is a Christian.
Maybe many of our magistrates (or even priests) are atheists. I don't know,
I don't care, noone cares. Maybe Iulius Caesar was an atheist, who knows?
But he was Augur, Pontifex! But then, what is mandatory here? It's TO ASSUME
that the Roman Gods exist when performing our public acts.
The important thing in the official Religio Romana is not 'inner faith'.
That is a thing that came with oriental cults in the later Republic and
Empire (which of course also fall within the span of Nova Roma's
spirituality, but are not mandatory as the state cult). What is important is
RITUAL, CULT, as demanded by Roman tradition. One may not believe, but the
very principle of the Roman state is to ASSUME the existence of the Gods in
our public actions. Can you do it? Welcome to Nova Roma, and maybe you can
become a Roman magistrate or priest.
This is why the Religio Romana is for everyone. You can be atheist,
christian, hindu, moslem, anything. Here, the only condition is to respect,
ASSUME and - if that is the case - to perform the rituals correctly.
Later on...
>Graecus began his
>defense by asserting that the fact we can think of them proves they exist.
>Since then, he has seemed to be retreating from his original certainty, and
>as of his last posting, he seems to have conceded that the
counter-arguments
>raised by Fortunatas and myself are equally possible. {You may be right,
but
>you may be wrong} So the "proof" he began with has proven to be not a
proof
>at all.
Wrong. Thought is a proof of existence "IN SOME WAY", remember? I was
correct enough from the philosophical point of view as to say "IN SOME WAY".
It can be a material existence (as I believe you believe) or a metaphysical
existence (as many of us believe and I myself defended). "IN SOME WAY" is
absolutely true. We only disagree as to WHAT WAY, right? And the answer to
the latter question is a matter of personal faith that neither I nor you can
prove.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
"Jeffrey L. Graham" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045056047121127198187242109140244253188098030046209130" >--------reygraham@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:55:49 +0000 |
|
After giving the matter serious thought, I have decided to withdraw my
candidacy for curule Aedile and stand for censor instead.
Quintus Gaufridus Canus
On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 04:16:01 EDT <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=061044104089235135169082190036" >sfp55@--------</--------; writes:
> Citizens! How can this be? Not one of you wishes to be censor? I
> constantly hear that you all wish to help Nova Roma, with many "pie
> in the
> sky" schemes.
> But the one thing that our micronation needs now, is someone
> standing for
> censor.
> And not one of you has stepped forward. I wish for all of you to
> dig down
> deep inside. Is there not one of you willing to assume the
> responsibility?
> To help Nova Roma at the place that is so important. Gaining more
> citizens.
> Helping the nation grow. Again we and the Senate ask. Is there not
> one of
> you willing to be censor?
> Tomorrow is the last day to declare. Help your nation. Stand for
> censor.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/955008970/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/955008970/</a>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
ICQ # 55638228
|
| Subject: |
ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem VIII Idus Aprilis (April 6th) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:27:22 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action or
public business could take place.
This is the third day of the Megalesia in honour of Magna Mater (Cybele),
Who gave us the victory over Hannibal.
Pax Deorum vobiscum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
"Kyrene" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198015242190036129" &--------yrene@--------</a&--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:55:50 -0400 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=061044104089235135169082190036" >sfp55@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position
> Citizens! How can this be? Not one of you wishes to be censor? I
> constantly hear that you all wish to help Nova Roma, with many "pie in the
> sky" schemes.
> But the one thing that our micronation needs now, is someone standing for
> censor.
What does the position entail?
Vale et khaire,
Kyrinia
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527</a> *=-
-=* ~The Tholos~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAriadne *=-
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] I'm so sad... You did not understand... (was Does Festus Exist???) |
| From: |
"Kyrene" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198015242190036129" &--------yrene@--------</a&--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:58:56 -0400 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:13 AM
Subject: [novaroma] I'm so sad... You did not understand... (was Does Festus
Exist???)
> This is why the Religio Romana is for everyone. You can be atheist,
> christian, hindu, moslem, anything. Here, the only condition is to
respect,
> ASSUME and - if that is the case - to perform the rituals correctly.
Oh dear gods, I hope that I'm misreading you here, but are you suggesting
that ANYONE can be a priest of Nova Roma regardless of faith? I sincerely
hope that the Religio will not be reduced to role playing!
To request those of another faith, or lack of it, to respect our rites is
one thing, but to allow *anyone* to be a priest--I cannot agree with that.
I respect the right to your opinion, but if the issue comes up again, I will
make my views quite plain. I am certain that I'm not the only one who feels
this way.
Vale et khaire,
Kyrinia
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527</a> *=-
-=* ~The Tholos~ *=-
-=* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:KyreneAriadne *=-
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] I'm so sad... You did not understand... (was Does Festus Exist???) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:59:01 +0100 |
|
Salvete Kyrene et omnes
ATTN: What I'm going to say is completely my responsibility, and may not be
the view of the Collegium Pontificum.
>> This is why the Religio Romana is for everyone. You can be atheist,
>> christian, hindu, moslem, anything. Here, the only condition is to
>respect,
>> ASSUME and - if that is the case - to perform the rituals correctly.
>
>Oh dear gods, I hope that I'm misreading you here, but are you suggesting
>that ANYONE can be a priest of Nova Roma regardless of faith? I sincerely
>hope that the Religio will not be reduced to role playing!
It's not role playing. The relationship between a Roman priest and his God
is one of personal relationship. Traditionally, a Roman priest is a
magistrate of the STATE! He performs his rituals, not for himself but for
the PEOPLE as a whole. As such, the needed faith is not that of the priest.
It's that of the PEOPLE HE REPRESENTS. What is the manifestation of faith
for the Romans? It's RITUAL, the RITES that honour the Gods in order for the
Gods bless the State and the People! This is the traditional Roman view of
'Religio'. 'Religio' is not Religion, it's "rule", the "prohibition", the
"formula" that must be said correctly by the magistrate for the People and
the State. That's why Nova Roma is not simply a religious organisation. The
Religio Romana is a State affair.
The problem is that there were so many centuries under Christianity that
people think that the only possible form of PIETY is ORIENTAL-FLAVOURED
FAITH.
Now. Which cults were traditionally held in this view. Not every cult. I am
referring to the TRADITIONAL Roman cults, to the NATIVE Roman Gods, Who are
very different from SOME of the Gods of the Greek and Oriental cults.
Does the Rex Sacrorum need to have faith? No.
Does a Flamen need to have faith? No.
Does a Quindecemvir need to have faith? No.
Does a priest of Eleusis need to have faith? Yes.
Does a priest of Isis need to have faith? Yes.
Does a priest of Mithras need to have faith? Yes.
Does a priest of Serapis need to have faith? Yes.
Why? Because these cults enforced a personal relationship between the
individual and the deity, which was a NOVELTY in Rome!!! Why? Because in
Rome there was traditionally no notion of salvation. Death was death, the
end, Infernus, enjoying the company of the Gods of the Underworld! Heaven?
Isles of the Blest? Those are Greek and Oriental notions, which of course
had their followers in Rome, and which also fall within the span of Nova
Roma?
>To request those of another faith, or lack of it, to respect our rites is
>one thing, but to allow *anyone* to be a priest--I cannot agree with that.
>I respect the right to your opinion, but if the issue comes up again, I
will
>make my views quite plain. I am certain that I'm not the only one who
feels
>this way.
In my opinion, anyone who Loves, Respects, Assumes the Roman Gods to exist
and is able to perform the ritual with accuracy can apply to a TRADITIONAL
ROMAN priesthood. For he is a magistrate, nothing but a representative of
the SPQR.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
Matt Hu--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:28:52 -0500 (CDT) |
|
> Finally, I do have some plans that I would like to implement in Nova Roma.
> Such as the creation of a part of the website where we can list our ICQ #'s,
> AIM names, Yahoo and MSN handles.
I could develop such an application. I'm a professional web developer
and sysadmin and have done projects similar to this in the past. I
volunteer my services as programmer. A simple database application allowing
people to add information to their own profiles shouldn't take more than
a day or two to develop. Lucius Cornelius, please send me a description
of what sort of functionality you'd like to have.
I'll also offer free hosting of the site - I don't know how
novaroma.org is hosted now, but I'm sure I can match it.
I hope you'll accept these services from a curule aedile, rather than
a censor. I prefer to start in a relatively low position on the
cursus honorum and advance through the magistracies in the traditional
manner.
M. OCTAVIUS GERMANICUS
Candidate for Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
---
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
Graveyards of Chicago: |
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |
|
| Subject: |
It's good to be the Romans |
| From: |
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=034056178009193132062218046036129208" >legioix@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:48:09 -0000 |
|
www.smh.com.au:80/news/0004/03/text/features4.html
A nice article regarding the adult arts of Pompeii
Gaius Valerisu Tacitus Hibernicus
Centurio
Legio IX Hispana
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] I'm so sad... You did not understand... (was Does Festus Exist???) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:56:52 +0100 |
|
Salvete Kyrene et al again
>It's not role playing. The relationship between a Roman priest and his God
>IS ONE of personal relationship.
It should be read "IS NOT ONE".
And I add the following. The Roman Gods do not demand inner faith. They
demand sacrifice. An atheist that performs the due sacrifice pleases more
the Gods that the faithful who does not offer sacrifice.
Remember the rare persecutions of christians? What was demanded from the
suspects in order to show their loyalty to the Roman Gods? To abdicate from
their faith? No! They were demanded to offer sacrifice and the magistrate
would sign a document to be presented by him as proof to the authorities.
Kyrene, now for you. As to the Greek cults (at least most of them), the
thing was similar with just some developments of oriental influence.
Eleusinian Mysteries! Who was promised the Isles of the Blest by the priests
of Eleusis? The faithful? No! All individuals who were initiated with the
appropriate formulas who were promised immortality after death. Of course
other Mysteries were different and required more from the individual.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
|
| Subject: |
Forming a Roman Legion |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:21:56 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Quintus Sertorius;
I salute a former military man! No, your message did not go astray. I
am the commander of a Civil War (American) re-enactment unit and I have
been in the process of preparing a four-piece map-set of an upcoming
local event here in early May, and getting that material to printers to
deadline. I am still in the process of recovering from an amputation,
and my wife and I are making all the special arrangements to make a trip
to the West Coast.
In addition to those areas of endeavor, I have recently been elected to
the position of Chief Engineer for the NE Federal Staff (Civil War) and
with the sesaon now resuming, my interests in the Naval Landing Party
(Civil War), Sailing Master, HMS Richmond (Rev War) and Adjutant, 42nd
Regiment of Foot (Royal Highland Regiment (Rev War), Secretary,
Connecticut Colonial Military Assoc., President of the Quoketaug Rangers
(F&I), and Vice-President and Board Member of the Naval Military History
Association, Board Member of the Society of Europe (Civil War), and
Field Engineer for Battery "F' of the Artillery Company of Newport have
become somewhat more active. In my spare time, I work with the Boy
Scouts of America, and am the Chairman of a local town Committee.
My activities as the Nova Roma Consul are tucked in there somewhere as
well! Since my days are rather full now, requests for information must
take thier turn. I apologize for the delay, but I am here now.
Your lead-in indicates some thought in beginnig a legion, which is
necessary but not vital. Marius Fimbria (Legio VI) in Texas, in our own
NR as well as Legion XXIV Medius Atlantia are sponsored by NR.
There are several legions active in the US, and they can be found easily
enough on the internet through NR website links. The two that I am a
auxilary member in, are the XXth Legion located in Maryland and the
XXIVth Legion in New Jersey. Another is the IXth Hispana in San Diego,
and I believe there are two legions in Portland, Oregon. There is a
legion in New Orleans, LA. All these Legions links I believe are listed
on the Nova Roma Website. I understand that further information is
available from Marius Fimbria on legion organizations and unts, through
the Onelist.
There is also quite a bit of information regarding uniforming and
weapons on the NR webpage, some photographs and 16 links to other units.
My recommendation at this point is to read the website as it relates to
the Legions, and contact all the links located thereon. Contact the
XXth Legion and buy a copy of thier quite complete set of plans for the
making of a complete set of armor, weapons, uniforms and marching kit.
You can also approach any one of the legions about doing a part of the
legion away from the main group, or auxiliaries (uniform was different).
My next action would be to get all the books by Peter Connelly (Amazon
Books-internet) having to do with your view of the legions as you wish
to portray them. With Connelly's Books and the XXth Legion's detailed
information you will have more than enough information to start your
legion as well as the start of an excellent bibliography to gain you
more data as you need it. Any one of those persons or links listed
above will be more than happy to provide you with book titles and
additional data pertaining to your endeavor.
In order to set up any re-enactment unit, I believe that the following
steps are necessary:
--Contact people that are interested in the hobby;
--Determine what unit you will portray, and find out all you can about
the unit that is possible;
--Determine the cost for a complete set of uniform, weapons, armor and
accouterments that a legionary can appear before spectators in. Also
how long you will allow prospective members to have before they should
be outfitted;
--Due to the problem of few uniform / weapon sutlers--you should
endeavor to set up a workshop somewhere to assist members of your unit
to make much of thier equipment. I uderstand from Matthew Amt of the
XXth Legio that things are getting better in that respect. He maintains
an excellent newsletter (internet) monthly that carefully outlines this
type of information as it becomes available;
--You will need to contact time-line events in your area to portray a
Roman Legion, as well as to contact a park or other historical
organization(s) to sponsor your major yearly events. I believe that
most legion units strive to set up 6 to 10 events per year, at least one
o which is an allout event that you will be the host unit siilar to
Roman Days in Maryland. My understanding is hat the SCA and two or
three other similar organizations have worked with beginnig legions in
the past. I currently belong to a Maratime Guild of the SCA as a member
of Nova Roma and participate in thier activities as a Roman Officer;
--At some point you will probably wish to consider a set of by-laws so
that everyone one understands the needs and procdures of the unit--a
newsletter which announces the activities of the unit--establish at
least an annual meeting of the unit to settle matters of unit policy and
attendance.
These are some general ideas on the development of a re-enactment unit.
I can help you further in the specifics of establishing a general set of
guidelines for a unit of this type, but perhaps one of the existing
legions (I must again, at this point, advise you to contact Mathew
Amt-Commander of the XXth Legion) for a more specific view of Roman
Legion re-enacting. I have sent this message to the Onelist in order
that some of the legionaries on the list who are more deeply involved in
Roman Period Re-enactment than I, may contact you with more specific and
technically revelent information.
In regard to the Roman Military aspect of Nova Roma, as indicated on the
website, which supports a Military Sodalitas for Mlitary Engineering and
Cartography. Marcus Audens is the Commander of this organization. It
is currently endeavoring to expand into a broader view of Military
Information, at the request of several people in NR, but needs some
additional interested people to get more involved in the Sodalitas, as
the Commander is currently involved in political organization for the
remainder of the year.
If you have any further specific questions please do not hesitate to
contact me with such.
I wish you the best of good fortune in your endeavor, and the best of
good fortune in finding good friends in the re-enacting world. It is
unfortunate that I come so late to the Roman re-enacting world, but it
is, I know, one in which you will find many friends and much
satisfaction.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Personal Thoughts on the Gods |
| From: |
"Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045015192254056209050218001036129208" >jhebert@--------&--------a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:05:40 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
In an earlier post, Antonius Gryllus Graecus (whom I like to consider
a respected personal friend and mentor), made the following statement:
"The Roman Gods do not demand inner faith. They demand sacrifice.
An atheist that performs the due sacrifice pleases more the Gods that
[sic] the faithful who does not offer sacrifice."
I agree insofar as the statement goes, but I think that, as it
stands, it is far too "cold and businesslike" and may be so
incomplete in stating our relationship with the Gods (at least in my
understanding) as to be a touch misleading. That is, to me, it makes
the Gods sound a bit like a cross between divine mercenaries and
sacred shop keepers.
My thought is (and I believe that such noted pagan philosophers as
the Emperor Julian would concur) that our relationship with the Gods
is indeed one of "give and take," but it is more importantly a bond
of friendship and even organic kinship. In one of his letters, I
believe, Julian states that we are "descended from the Gods" and,
thus, are of their kindred. This is much more personal, familial and
social than a purely "goods on demand and payment" commercial
relationship which I infer from Antonius' admittedly brief statement.
Like our human family and friends, I believe that, as it were, we
"invite the Gods to parties" ("rituals"), "take them out to lunch"
("sacrifices"), and "call them on the phone" ("prayers"). In short,
we develop and maintain a relationship with them which is far from
purely mercenary; rather, it is a bond of ever-increasing friendship,
trust and affection (which one doesn't normally feel for, say, the
neighbourhood car salesman).
While it may have been part of the more austere Roman character to
"de-emotionalize" man's relationship with the Gods, I do not think
that such a view is complete -- as much as we admire our ancient
forefathers, we do not have to take it on faith, as it were, that
they were absolutely correct about everything, including their
understanding of our mutually-shared Religion. In re-establishing
Roman values, religion and traditions, I do not think that it is
necessary to also attempt to recreate an "authentic reconstructed
mindset" (if such a thing is even possible) which does not allow for
the continued evolution and discovery which free and noble men and
women naturally claim and pursue as their birthright. If some Romans
took an unemotional, "business is business" approach toward the Gods,
even on the highest official levels, I believe it is neither
necessary nor even advisable that we, in an effort to revive the
ancient culture, follow precisely in their [presumed] footsteps, or
that we proclaim such an approach as "official doctrine."
I think perhaps that while we "render the Gods Their due," we also
reflect upon the likelihood that this is not merely a fiduciary
duty. It is, and is founded upon, a mutual love and concern, a
friendship and familial bond, which is as much in our hearts as in
our heads.
Thanks for letting me spout off. Et Antoni amice, tremens corde
spirituque responsionem pontificalem e Lusitania expectabo.... :o)
Valete et omnibus omnia optima -- et salutationes meas novi Novae
Romae amici et amicae,
Acadianus Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] salvete romani |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:07:30 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Nina Shaull;
Well, take a look at our website (I believe my Scribus already provided
it to you) and read it over. If you have any questions, please do not
hesitate to ask. Should you like what you see, feel welcome to join us.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Mincius Audens;
Consul et Senator
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Plea for Censorship position |
| From: |
George VanDeWater <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:15:09 -0600 |
|
Salve Omnes!
In response to our Good Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla, I will be with drawing my announcement to stand for Curule Aedile and Announce that I will stand for election as censor. I have been a citizen of Nova Roma since August of 1998. I am Paterfamilis Africania Secunda in the Southwest Provincia. I served for a short time filling the vacant position of Aedile Plebis.Since I am retiring from my career as a college administrator I feel that I would be able to meet the requirements of office stated by L. Cornelius. These are: Excel, E-mail. The ability to deal with people (citizens and non-citizens), the ability to be online ALOT, Diligent, customer service oriented, able to put in at least 3-5 hours a week doing essentially office work. Detail oriented. Likes to solve problems.
With the help of the Gods and my good wife Julia, I am willing to serve Nova Roma.
Vale,
G. Africanus Secundus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Forming a Roman Legion |
| From: |
"Rick Brett" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189212253108160085015199190036129" >trog99@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:29:38 PDT |
|
Salve, Consul Audens:
In this informative discourse you alluded to your "spare time"...outside an
agenda like this you still have spare time?....incredible!! (Grin)
Vale, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123075020254193194170038203026129208071" >gu--------he@--------</a> (Qu--------s Sertor--------, <a href="ma--------:novaroma@onel--------com" >novaroma@onel--------com</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Forming a Roman Legion
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:21:56 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Salve, Quintus Sertorius;
>
>I salute a former military man! No, your message did not go astray. I
>am the commander of a Civil War (American) re-enactment unit and I have
>been in the process of preparing a four-piece map-set of an upcoming
>local event here in early May, and getting that material to printers to
>deadline. I am still in the process of recovering from an amputation,
>and my wife and I are making all the special arrangements to make a trip
>to the West Coast.
>
>In addition to those areas of endeavor, I have recently been elected to
>the position of Chief Engineer for the NE Federal Staff (Civil War) and
>with the sesaon now resuming, my interests in the Naval Landing Party
>(Civil War), Sailing Master, HMS Richmond (Rev War) and Adjutant, 42nd
>Regiment of Foot (Royal Highland Regiment (Rev War), Secretary,
>Connecticut Colonial Military Assoc., President of the Quoketaug Rangers
>(F&I), and Vice-President and Board Member of the Naval Military History
>Association, Board Member of the Society of Europe (Civil War), and
>Field Engineer for Battery "F' of the Artillery Company of Newport have
>become somewhat more active. In my spare time, I work with the Boy
>Scouts of America, and am the Chairman of a local town Committee.
>
>My activities as the Nova Roma Consul are tucked in there somewhere as
>well! Since my days are rather full now, requests for information must
>take thier turn. I apologize for the delay, but I am here now.
>
>Your lead-in indicates some thought in beginnig a legion, which is
>necessary but not vital. Marius Fimbria (Legio VI) in Texas, in our own
>NR as well as Legion XXIV Medius Atlantia are sponsored by NR.
>
>There are several legions active in the US, and they can be found easily
>enough on the internet through NR website links. The two that I am a
>auxilary member in, are the XXth Legion located in Maryland and the
>XXIVth Legion in New Jersey. Another is the IXth Hispana in San Diego,
>and I believe there are two legions in Portland, Oregon. There is a
>legion in New Orleans, LA. All these Legions links I believe are listed
>on the Nova Roma Website. I understand that further information is
>available from Marius Fimbria on legion organizations and unts, through
>the Onelist.
>
>There is also quite a bit of information regarding uniforming and
>weapons on the NR webpage, some photographs and 16 links to other units.
>
>My recommendation at this point is to read the website as it relates to
>the Legions, and contact all the links located thereon. Contact the
>XXth Legion and buy a copy of thier quite complete set of plans for the
>making of a complete set of armor, weapons, uniforms and marching kit.
>You can also approach any one of the legions about doing a part of the
>legion away from the main group, or auxiliaries (uniform was different).
>My next action would be to get all the books by Peter Connelly (Amazon
>Books-internet) having to do with your view of the legions as you wish
>to portray them. With Connelly's Books and the XXth Legion's detailed
>information you will have more than enough information to start your
>legion as well as the start of an excellent bibliography to gain you
>more data as you need it. Any one of those persons or links listed
>above will be more than happy to provide you with book titles and
>additional data pertaining to your endeavor.
>
>In order to set up any re-enactment unit, I believe that the following
>steps are necessary:
>
>--Contact people that are interested in the hobby;
>
>--Determine what unit you will portray, and find out all you can about
>the unit that is possible;
>
>--Determine the cost for a complete set of uniform, weapons, armor and
>accouterments that a legionary can appear before spectators in. Also
>how long you will allow prospective members to have before they should
>be outfitted;
>
>--Due to the problem of few uniform / weapon sutlers--you should
>endeavor to set up a workshop somewhere to assist members of your unit
>to make much of thier equipment. I uderstand from Matthew Amt of the
>XXth Legio that things are getting better in that respect. He maintains
>an excellent newsletter (internet) monthly that carefully outlines this
>type of information as it becomes available;
>
>--You will need to contact time-line events in your area to portray a
>Roman Legion, as well as to contact a park or other historical
>organization(s) to sponsor your major yearly events. I believe that
>most legion units strive to set up 6 to 10 events per year, at least one
>o which is an allout event that you will be the host unit siilar to
>Roman Days in Maryland. My understanding is hat the SCA and two or
>three other similar organizations have worked with beginnig legions in
>the past. I currently belong to a Maratime Guild of the SCA as a member
>of Nova Roma and participate in thier activities as a Roman Officer;
>
>--At some point you will probably wish to consider a set of by-laws so
>that everyone one understands the needs and procdures of the unit--a
>newsletter which announces the activities of the unit--establish at
>least an annual meeting of the unit to settle matters of unit policy and
>attendance.
>
>These are some general ideas on the development of a re-enactment unit.
>I can help you further in the specifics of establishing a general set of
>guidelines for a unit of this type, but perhaps one of the existing
>legions (I must again, at this point, advise you to contact Mathew
>Amt-Commander of the XXth Legion) for a more specific view of Roman
>Legion re-enacting. I have sent this message to the Onelist in order
>that some of the legionaries on the list who are more deeply involved in
>Roman Period Re-enactment than I, may contact you with more specific and
>technically revelent information.
>
>In regard to the Roman Military aspect of Nova Roma, as indicated on the
>website, which supports a Military Sodalitas for Mlitary Engineering and
>Cartography. Marcus Audens is the Commander of this organization. It
>is currently endeavoring to expand into a broader view of Military
>Information, at the request of several people in NR, but needs some
>additional interested people to get more involved in the Sodalitas, as
>the Commander is currently involved in political organization for the
>remainder of the year.
>
>If you have any further specific questions please do not hesitate to
>contact me with such.
>I wish you the best of good fortune in your endeavor, and the best of
>good fortune in finding good friends in the re-enacting world. It is
>unfortunate that I come so late to the Roman re-enacting world, but it
>is, I know, one in which you will find many friends and much
>satisfaction.
>
>Vale, Respectfully;
>Marcus Audens
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>LOW RATE, NO WAIT!
>Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates
>as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
>Apply NOW!
><a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/4/_/61050/_/955038117/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/4/_/61050/_/955038117/</a>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Festus |
| From: |
Mike Ma--------r <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=174176211056207031025158175026172165098048139046" >MikeMa--------r@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:38:35 -0400 |
|
Salvete!
Regrettably, part of Festus' response to my post makes clear that he does=
not accept that Nova Roma is constitutionally committed to the Religio
Romana as part of its basis, and that the Religio is not merely a "side
issue". I quote:
>You then said, "....we are not obliged to prove the existence of the God=
s
to =
>the satisfaction of Festus on a list whose purpose is to promote their =
>worship;
>and the curator of the list would be entitled to intervene to shut this
>discussion down and arguably should do so."
>May I ask then, what the Religio mailing lists are for? Can you imagine=
what =
>would have happened had someone made that remark on the Religio mailing
list? =
> The "controversy" here {which was actually a tantrum by some fanatical =
>religious bigots} would have looked downright pleasant and happy by =
>comparison. =
This being the case I do not think it proper to respond further to Festus=
'
actual arguments, but will instead ask the Praetors and/or Censor to
consider whether Festus should be allowed to continue to occupy time and
bandwidth in the Nova Roma list.
If, of course, Festus were to state clearly and unequivocally that he
accepts that NR is committed to the Religio and is prepared to support it=
on that basis, there might then be some interesting philosophical
discussion to be had of other issues he raises.
Valete,
M. Mucius Scaevola Magister
|
| Subject: |
Belief & Religio Priesthood |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:59:15 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/6/00 7:19:36 AM Pa----------------ylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:
<<
ATTN: What I'm going to say is completely my responsibility, and may not be
the view of the Collegium Pontificum.
Cassius:
I am most grateful to Antonius Graecus for making this clarification! So far
the policy of the Collegium Pontificum has been to allow only those who
actively practice the Religio as their own personal worship to be official
Priesthood within Nova Roma.
Graecus certainly has a point that the ancient Romans in some senses regarded
ritual correctness to be more important than personal belief. However, this
does not mean that belief was totally unimportant. Someone doing ritual with
real feeling and intent would generally have been more successful as a
priest. Doing a ritual with the same passion as say, reading some wall
graffiti correctly might satisfy ancient *form*, but as important as
correctness was it was unlikely to please either the public or the gods as
much as true spiritual involvement.
Of course, the above can be argued against, and quite well. What is more
difficult to dispute is that the Romans, and the Religio Romana, paid dearly
for allowing priesthood to become a function of ritual form rather than an
inspirational vehicle of religious feeling.
In 360 AD, the Emperor Julian made desperate attempts to reorganize the Roman
priesthood. Why? Because the Christian priesthood, through stressing
sincerity of religious feeling and holding priesthood as a full time
occupation proved conclusively to be more effective in every aspect of public
and community life. Julian stressed Pietas (belief, not just form) for the
Pagan priesthood and changed the ancient part-time offices to full time
careers, in an effort to keep pace. It was plain that the overall quality of
Christianity's representatives that had gained it popularity, and that the
lack of true spiritual authority on the part of the Religio's "form only"
priesthood that had lost it respect.
I personally hope that Nova Roma continues to learn from the "end" of
antiquity in such matters. We have clear historical example of what happens
when a priesthood (and even a religion!) with little inner spiritual
connection to it's deities, tries to compete with a religion who's priesthood
and membership have strong belief in and passion for their gods. It's just no
contest.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Voter Codes and Announcement |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:34:52 -0700 |
|
Salve
I have sent out voter codes to everyone I had a list for. If you still
do not have a voter code....Please let me know!
I will send it out ASAP.
Especially now with elections right around the corner, you need your
voter code if you are thinking of voting.
ALSO....
Beginning tomorrow all applications processing will be on hiadus (sp)
during this election period, and processing will not resume til a week
after the election is over.
This will give me some time to get caught up on our dramitic influx of
applications. :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement to the people of Nova Roma (Special Election) |
| From: |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:42:34 +0100 |
|
Why?
Vado.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hu--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement to the people of Nova Roma (Special
Election)
>
> I, MARCUS OCTAVIUS GERMANICUS, citizen of the Laci Magni Provincia,
> respectfully declare to the Senate and People of Nova Roma
> my intention to stand for Curule Aedile.
>
>
> --
> Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
> konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
> Graveyards of Chicago: |
> <a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/954890142/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/954890142/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement to the people of Nova Roma (Special Election) |
| From: |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:39:59 +0100 |
|
Salutem mei populari
Dixit Canus:
> I would like to stand for the office of curule aedile
>
> Q. Gaufridus Canus
Respondeo: Quapropter?
Valete,
Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Does Festus Exist? |
| From: |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:11:38 +0100 |
|
Salvete Quiriti
Well, look what a few more random keyboard depressions have generated
(albeit, possibly, predictably), as if in response to my attempted reductio
ad absurdum:
> << (Well, Quirites, a similar aetiology of randomness has been advanced by
> atheists to explain the Creation without a divine agency, and is
earnestly
> believed by many clever people in the world today...) >>
>
>
> You haven't been reading creationist literature, have you?
- Actually, yes, I do read Creationist literature. It's more fun than the
pathetic prognostications of so many frogs in a pond to the effect that no
higher life-form exists than frogs in the pond, and that the perceptible
pond is the universe. I like the idea of a Demiurge planting fish-fossils up
a mountain on the Fifth Day, just to test the faithful and prove to future
geologists that there really was a universal flood. (Just the sort of thing
I'd do if I were a god) (:-).
> Actually, atheists do not tend to appeal to randomness to explain the
cosmos
> without a deity. J. Monod was an atheist who DID do that, but he is
unique
> in this. Atheists tend towards the opposite view, that matter/energy,
> behaving in patterns which are regular and predictable {in theory, if not
in
> actual practice} brought about "creation". So called "creation
scientists"
> are notorius for erecting the "it's all chance" straw man argument, which
> they claim is the only alternative for theistic creation.
- So, if I understand this right, all the atheists in the world save one
(Mr. Monod) are looking up at the limitless expanse of tthe stars and
saying: "Yes, well, of course tjhis all happened without a pre-extant
conscious entity, and the whole thing would have been entirely predictable
had we been conscious entities before it all happened." I'm impressed by
such profound reasoning. I truly am.
> As for Berkowitz and the Virgin Mary's globe trotting these last few
decades,
> ask yourself what Hume asked. Which would you say is more likely? That a
> spook is talking to Berkowitz {or a 2000 years dead Jewish woman is
appearing
> in Conyers} or that someone is either {1} making it up, or {2}
hallucinating.
- O 'Festus', you must ask yourself Hume's question: is it more likely that
you exist, who have been seen (if at all) by far fewer people, than a female
divinity commonly known as the Virgin Mary (who has also appeared to the
people of Lourdes, France, Fatima, Portugal, Knock, Ireland, Medugorje,
Croatia, Guadeloupe, Mexico, et cetera ad infinitum)? It seems to me that
you simply don't WANT to believe.
You know, it really saddens me that atheists, in denying the existence of
immortal spiritual beings, may thereby also be denying themselves worthwhile
spiritual existence beyond the material. I have actually met the spirits of
a few dead atheists, who experience all kinds of problems because they
cannot or will not resolve for themselves the apparent contradiction that i)
they still exist; and ii) mostly the material world ignores their continued
existence.
As my grandfather was fond of saying (he appeared to the family after he
died, by the way): "If you think a thing is, it is." Our beliefs
precondition our perceptions, and a closed mind is doomed to a life of
narrow possibilities.
> So, it is all still up to you! A real person is typing {even if I am a
> neurotic Sulla...No I'm not...Yes I am!...oh shut up...I'm trying to type!
> Well so am I!} or you are a loon!
- Enough. Satis. In deference to Consul Q. Fabius, even though I'm not a
philosopher, I shall have to ask anyone who persists in calling me a loony
to step outside into some other forum. And will someone please hold my toga?
Bene valete,
Vado.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement |
| From: |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:40:47 +0100 |
|
Ave Censor atque salve Sulla
Aletheia Moravia and I don't have any new voter codes. We have our original
codes, though. Is that sufficient?
Bene vale (will remember you to Mercurius and Minerva Medica on the 11th
May),
Vado.
> Salve
>
> I have sent out voter codes to everyone I had a list for. If you still
> do not have a voter code....Please let me know!
>
> I will send it out ASAP.
>
> Especially now with elections right around the corner, you need your
> voter code if you are thinking of voting.
>
> ALSO....
>
> Beginning tomorrow all applications processing will be on hiadus (sp)
> during this election period, and processing will not resume til a week
> after the election is over.
>
> This will give me some time to get caught up on our dramitic influx of
> applications. :)
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:15:01 -0700 |
|
The Original Codes are sufficent.
I have not made any changes to the original voter codes. If you still have
them you can continue to use them.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick For--------4; <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123056234112159192112061175246231253136100139046209" >gens_moravia@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement
> Ave Censor atque salve Sulla
>
> Aletheia Moravia and I don't have any new voter codes. We have our
original
> codes, though. Is that sufficient?
>
> Bene vale (will remember you to Mercurius and Minerva Medica on the 11th
> May),
Thanks! :)
> Vado.
>
>
> > Salve
> >
> > I have sent out voter codes to everyone I had a list for. If you still
> > do not have a voter code....Please let me know!
> >
> > I will send it out ASAP.
> >
> > Especially now with elections right around the corner, you need your
> > voter code if you are thinking of voting.
> >
> > ALSO....
> >
> > Beginning tomorrow all applications processing will be on hiadus (sp)
> > during this election period, and processing will not resume til a week
> > after the election is over.
> >
> > This will give me some time to get caught up on our dramitic influx of
> > applications. :)
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> > 1. Fill in the brief application
> > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> > Apply NOW!
> > <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/</a>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/955057300/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/4/_/61050/_/955057300/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement to the people of Nova Roma (Special Election) |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:47:43 -0700 |
|
What do you plan to do as Curule Aedile?
Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matt Hu--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement to the people of Nova Roma (Special
> Election)
>
>
> >
> > I, MARCUS OCTAVIUS GERMANICUS, citizen of the Laci Magni Provincia,
> > respectfully declare to the Senate and People of Nova Roma
> > my intention to stand for Curule Aedile.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
> > konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
> > Graveyards of Chicago: |
> > <a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
> > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> > <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/954890142/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/954890142/</a>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955056995/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955056995/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement |
| From: |
"Robert Williamson" <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=194233250056127134015037190036129" >robert@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:25:33 -0400 |
|
Salve: Greetings to you and yours. I may have missed something. If so I
offer my apollogies, but for those of us who have had voter codes for a long
time, are these codes still in effect?
Respectfully .... Appius Marcellus Cato
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:34 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement
> Salve
>
> I have sent out voter codes to everyone I had a list for. If you still
> do not have a voter code....Please let me know!
>
> I will send it out ASAP.
>
> Especially now with elections right around the corner, you need your
> voter code if you are thinking of voting.
>
> ALSO....
>
> Beginning tomorrow all applications processing will be on hiadus (sp)
> during this election period, and processing will not resume til a week
> after the election is over.
>
> This will give me some time to get caught up on our dramitic influx of
> applications. :)
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> 1. Fill in the brief application
> 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:28:23 -0700 |
|
Salve!
Yes the old voter codes are in affect....you can still use them..I have not
changed them at all. :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Williamson" <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=194233250056127134015037190036129" >robert@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement
> Salve: Greetings to you and yours. I may have missed something. If so I
> offer my apollogies, but for those of us who have had voter codes for a
long
> time, are these codes still in effect?
> Respectfully .... Appius Marcellus Cato
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
> To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:34 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Voter Codes and Announcement
>
>
> > Salve
> >
> > I have sent out voter codes to everyone I had a list for. If you still
> > do not have a voter code....Please let me know!
> >
> > I will send it out ASAP.
> >
> > Especially now with elections right around the corner, you need your
> > voter code if you are thinking of voting.
> >
> > ALSO....
> >
> > Beginning tomorrow all applications processing will be on hiadus (sp)
> > during this election period, and processing will not resume til a week
> > after the election is over.
> >
> > This will give me some time to get caught up on our dramitic influx of
> > applications. :)
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!
> > 1. Fill in the brief application
> > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds
> > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR
> > Apply NOW!
> > <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/975/4/_/61050/_/955053476/</a>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/955063464/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/955063464/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
