Subject:	Censor's Duties
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:06:46 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Censor Sulla:

I do not agree with your evaluaton entirely. There have been other
Censors who have not done as much or done so well. You have shown in
your position so far as a Censor and a Magistrate, an ability to work
steadily at the backlog, that we are all aware faces the NR Censors,
deal wth it effectively, and still have enough time to deal on a
personal basis with those in NR that need a helping hand, in a quiet and
non-agressive way. I am pleased to see that you have chosen to modify
past tendencies to use the Onelist as a personal forum for difficulties
not of general interest to the list. In my view this is also very
impressive, and to my certain knowledge not an easy thing to do--my
admiration and congratulations go with this recognition.

While you and I have not always agreed on our goals and procedures, it
is my estimation that you have in fact come a long way and you have
served Nova Roma well. You certainly in my estmation deserve the praise
that you have received from those in NR who recognize your worth.

I have been on occasion in the past been criticized for undue
congratulation, however, in this particular instance I believe my words
are not excessive for the service that they recognize.

Vale, Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Consul et Senator

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Election
From:
Date:	Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:02:37 -0700

Salve

I am getting a few questions from civies.....and I dont know the answer.....when exaclty will the election begin and for that matter, when will it end?

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: Re: Personal Thought on the gods etc.[novaroma] Digest Number 790
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:51:34 PDT

Salutem:

Australicus wrote (after making, in my opinion, many sensible observations:

>I think it tells us something important that a number of people on this
>list reacted to Festus as Christians would rather than as Romans would.

- Sorry, mi Australice, but I can't let this one go. The way Fimbria reacted
was, in my view, as a Christian Roman. Consul Audens is deliberating with
much care on what should be the official policy on public statements
expressing disrespect for the gods of Rome, and again in my opinion he is
doing so like a Roman who has consistently and successfully integrated the
exigencies of his high office and of his Christian faith.

On the other hand, many of Socrates' fellow-citizens reacted hysterically to
his rather innovative beliefs in his 'daimon', and to the lasting shame of
Athens, we all know what happened. As I see it,
reaction is more down to personal psychology rather than personal theology,
and maybe even - as Fimbria hinted - to the depth and strength of one's
personal faith. Just my dupondius' worth.

Valete bene in pace deorum,

Vado.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Personal Thoughts on the Gods, etc.
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:33:11 +0100

Salve Saevola

>Please excuse me for entering into this with a couple of
>observations/questions. (*Why* is beyond me since I make it a rule NEVER
>to get drawn into discussions of religion. However, this one looks to be
>a civil one so far.)
Thank you for your thoughts!

>>Again, for the Romans (traditionally) Gods are not the kin of humans. That
>>is a later Greek and Asiatic development, which was firstly manifested in
>>the Orphic and Pythagorean schools of Magna Graecia.
>I don't think this is correct, since the Roman myth of their origin was
>that they were descended from Aeneas and his entourage, who in turn had
>family relations with some of the gods and goddesses. The Julii, in
>particular, always claimed actual descent from Venus -- hence the
>traditional battle cry of Caesar's legions, "Venus Victrix!"
Good point! But this is likely to have been Greek influence as well, though
we cannot of course discard it from Roman culture. Anyway, you may verify
that only SOME humans were considered the same kin of the Gods, and those
mortals could in fact become immortal in the Isles of the Blest. Initially,
only those humans who descended from a God (children of God and human) (in
anciente Greece, as attested by Homer, only noblemen were recognised that
privilege) had the right to attain immortality after death. Later, the
Mystery religions brought the idea that any human was the same kin of the
Gods and could attain immortality through proper initiation and/or way of
life.
In other words, both Aeneas and Caesar are evoking the traditional thought
of being the same kin of the Gods by direct descendence.

>>>Like Augustus, Julian, and others, I abhor the idea that a priesthood
>>>might be a mere political vehicle for some ambitious people who don't
>>>think such a personal bond with the Gods is important.
>>ATTN!!!!! Augustus HAD THE IDEA THAT A PRIESTHOOD MIGHT BE A MERE
POLITICAL
>>VEHICLE. He intituted the Imperial cult, which lead to the gradual
decadence
>>of the traditional priesthoods.
>I never realized that Augustus started that -- do you have references on
>this?
Well... I could provide you thousands of references. But ok... The complete
story. Iulius Caesar was the very first initiator, for he was deified still
during his life. Marcus Antonius was even chosen for Flamen of his cult.
Later Augustus instituted the Imperial cult as it would exist (with little
changes) until Aurelian, when the Emperor started to be addressed as
"Dominus et Deus" still during life.
Do you have the Dictionary of Roman Religion? See under "Imperial Cult".

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem IV Idus Aprilis (April 10th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:20:34 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action or
public business can take place.

This is the seventh and final day of the Megalesia in honour of Magna Mater
(Cybele). This is the Dies Natalis of her temple at the Palatine Hill. She
gave us the Victory over Hannibal, and for this Her idol was kept at the
temple of Victoria before being deposed in Her own temple in this joyful day
in 191 BC. This day sees the culmination of the games with chariot races at
the Circus Maximus. Before the Praetor signals the start of the chariot
races, there is a procession of golden statues of the Gods around the
Circus  winged Victoria, Neptune, Mars, Apollo, Minerva, Ceres, Bacchus,
Pollux and Castor, and Venus.
The festivals of Cybele and Attis are finishing. Lets us remember them
within our hearts until next year.

Don't forget that this month is sacred to Venus. Aprilis may be derived from
"Aphru", ethruscan transcription of Aphodite.
Venus, Magna Mater and Ceres is also starting to bless our fields. I would
say that this month is devoted to the female creative power. But some
dangers must also be averted. But let each thing come at its due time as
dictated by Sol and Luna.

Pax deorum vobiscum

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

Subject:	Announcement
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 03:41:56 -0700

Salvete Civies!

I have a wonderful announcement to make. As vested in Article 2 Section
C Part 1, ".... The Censors shall have the power to elevate a Plebian
Gens to Patrician Status." With that in mind, I hereby am extremely
honored to promote the Gens Gryllia.

I have made this decision due to the achievements that Antonius Gryllus
Graecus
has made for the advancement of Nova Roma, from both within Nova Roma
(with his website revisions, his public service and his religious
involvement) and in trying to promote Nova Roma in the outside academic
community and through his website as Governor of Lusitania.

Vale and Congratulations

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor et Senator

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Announcement
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:32:57 +0100

Salvete omnes

I am extremely honoured by the promotion of Gens Grylla to Patrician status
and I'm very grateful to Censor Sulla. I have accepted this promotion in
memory of the Manes of the Gens.

Although I'm now a patrician, I want you to know that I will not forget my
roots, for my ancestors in Roman times were surely plebeian and probably
worked hard on the fields (my province, Alentejo in southern Portugal, is an
agricultural province, and it was already in Roman times as attested by the
numerous Roman villas), maybe as servants of a landlord. To the Dii Manes of
Gens Grylla I dedicate the promotion and mark this day on the Calendar as
sacred to my Gens. I also add Magna Mater to the list of patron deities of
Gens Grylla, for it was in the Dies Natalis of Her temple than my Gens was
promoted.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
Senator
Praetor
Propraetor Lusitaniae

Subject:	Address needed
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 05:07:21 -0700

Salve

I need the address of Marcus Marcius Rex, Governor of Germania. It is
not listed in the Government section of Nova Roma and my e-mail has
bounced (from the citizen database). Please contact me as soon as
possible. Thank you! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Subject:	Re: Re: Personal Thought on the gods etc.[novaroma] Digest Number 790
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:19:38 EDT

Salve,

Indeed, Vado, you are quite right. in the sentence you quote,
"Christians" was meant to refer to those Christians I described in the
preceeding paragraph, i.e., those who react with fear and aggression when
they hear an assertion that doesn't agree with their beliefs. I should
have made this sentence a part of the preceeding paragraph and it should
have read "...as these Christians would..."

Thank you for pointing out a serious misstatement. I hope that I offended
no-one by it, but if I did, I apologize.

Making attributions to people on the basis of membership in a loosely
defined group is about as safe (and as smart) as exploring an un-mapped
minefield. I should know better!

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.


On 4/10/00 2:51 AM Nicolaus Moravius (<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>) wrote:

>Salutem:
>
>Australicus wrote (after making, in my opinion, many sensible observations:
>
>>I think it tells us something important that a number of people on this
>>list reacted to Festus as Christians would rather than as Romans would.
>
>- Sorry, mi Australice, but I can't let this one go. The way Fimbria reacted
>was, in my view, as a Christian Roman. Consul Audens is deliberating with
>much care on what should be the official policy on public statements
>expressing disrespect for the gods of Rome, and again in my opinion he is
>doing so like a Roman who has consistently and successfully integrated the
>exigencies of his high office and of his Christian faith.
>
>On the other hand, many of Socrates' fellow-citizens reacted hysterically to
>his rather innovative beliefs in his 'daimon', and to the lasting shame of
>Athens, we all know what happened. As I see it,
>reaction is more down to personal psychology rather than personal theology,
>and maybe even - as Fimbria hinted - to the depth and strength of one's
>personal faith. Just my dupondius' worth.
>
>Valete bene in pace deorum,
>
>Vado.


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Personal Thoughts on the Gods, etc.
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:19:29 -0500

Salve Pontifex Antonius Gryllus Graecus

On 4/10/00 3:33 AM Antonio Grilo (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>) wrote:
>Salve Saevola
>
>>Please excuse me for entering into this with a couple of
>>observations/questions. (*Why* is beyond me since I make it a rule NEVER
>>to get drawn into discussions of religion. However, this one looks to be
>>a civil one so far.)
>Thank you for your thoughts!
>
>>>Again, for the Romans (traditionally) Gods are not the kin of humans. That
>>>is a later Greek and Asiatic development, which was firstly manifested in
>>>the Orphic and Pythagorean schools of Magna Graecia.
>>I don't think this is correct, since the Roman myth of their origin was
>>that they were descended from Aeneas and his entourage, who in turn had
>>family relations with some of the gods and goddesses. The Julii, in
>>particular, always claimed actual descent from Venus -- hence the
>>traditional battle cry of Caesar's legions, "Venus Victrix!"
>Good point! But this is likely to have been Greek influence as well, though
>we cannot of course discard it from Roman culture. Anyway, you may verify
>that only SOME humans were considered the same kin of the Gods, and those
>mortals could in fact become immortal in the Isles of the Blest. Initially,
>only those humans who descended from a God (children of God and human) (in
>anciente Greece, as attested by Homer, only noblemen were recognised that
>privilege) had the right to attain immortality after death. Later, the
>Mystery religions brought the idea that any human was the same kin of the
>Gods and could attain immortality through proper initiation and/or way of
>life.
>In other words, both Aeneas and Caesar are evoking the traditional thought
>of being the same kin of the Gods by direct descendence.
>
>>>>Like Augustus, Julian, and others, I abhor the idea that a priesthood
>>>>might be a mere political vehicle for some ambitious people who don't
>>>>think such a personal bond with the Gods is important.
>>>ATTN!!!!! Augustus HAD THE IDEA THAT A PRIESTHOOD MIGHT BE A MERE
>POLITICAL
>>>VEHICLE. He intituted the Imperial cult, which lead to the gradual
>decadence
>>>of the traditional priesthoods.
>>I never realized that Augustus started that -- do you have references on
>>this?
>Well... I could provide you thousands of references. But ok... The complete
>story. Iulius Caesar was the very first initiator, for he was deified still
>during his life. Marcus Antonius was even chosen for Flamen of his cult.
>Later Augustus instituted the Imperial cult as it would exist (with little
>changes) until Aurelian, when the Emperor started to be addressed as
>"Dominus et Deus" still during life.
>Do you have the Dictionary of Roman Religion? See under "Imperial Cult".

I haven't but I'm sure Barnes & Noble does. I'll consult it at the very
next opportunity. Thanks.

And congratulations on the elevation of your gens to patrician status.
You richly deserve recognition for your efforts. I particularly enjoy
your daily information on the Religio.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.
>
>Vale
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Address needed
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:30:25 -0500

Salve,

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=085056131063158209025056228219114253071048139" >RexM--------us@--------</--------; w--------h--------e used ------------------------ebru--------

I knew there would be a reason for saving all those messages!

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust.

On 4/10/00 7:07 AM Lucius Corn--------s Sulla (<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>) wrot--------r>
>Salve
>
>I need the address of Marcus Marcius Rex, Governor of Germania. It is
>not listed in the Government section of Nova Roma and my e-mail has
>bounced (from the citizen database). Please contact me as soon as
>possible. Thank you! :)
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Censor

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Address needed
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 05:27:04 -0700

That was the addy I had too. It bounced. :) Is there another I might not
have on my database?

Sulla Felix

Ira Adams wrote:

> Salve,
>
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=085056131063158209025056228219114253071048139" >RexM--------us@--------</--------; w--------h--------e used ------------------------ebru--------
>
> I knew there would be a reason for saving all those messages!
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
> On 4/10/00 7:07 AM Lucius Corn--------s Sulla (<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>) wrot--------font>
>
> >Salve
> >
> >I need the address of Marcus Marcius Rex, Governor of Germania. It is
> >not listed in the Government section of Nova Roma and my e-mail has
> >bounced (from the citizen database). Please contact me as soon as
> >possible. Thank you! :)
> >
> >Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >Censor
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/955369842/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/4/_/61050/_/955369842/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	Pontifex Antonius Gryllus Graecus
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:38:42 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Pontiff and Senator Graecus;

Please allow me to extend my congratulations for the elevation of your
Gens to Patrician Class. Your work for Nova Roma in the past, your very
obvious dedication, devotion and study in the Area of the Religio Romana
and your detailed knowledge of Roman Culture, all combine to make you an
ideal candidate for such an honor.

I am most pleased to be able to congratulate you on this honor, as well
as to call you friend and colleague. All the best to you and yours.

Vale, Very Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Consul et Senator

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Album Gentium
From:	George VanDeWater <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:41:07 -0600

Salve Censor Sulla,
I know that you have worked deligently to correct errors in both these listings. Unfortunately I find that there are still errors for my Gens. Under the Plebeian Gentess the listing for Africania Secunda still has the following errors;
Provincia- should be Southwest (as we are in Utah)
email- --------ld be <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a> (drop the ut)
Patro Deities- Minerva & Mithras

In the Album Civis I believe my Centry Points are incorrect as I served as a Plebian aedile last year. This should bring it from 15 to 25. Also at what point will the additional name of memebrs of my Gens be added to the list?

Since I am standing for election this year it would help to have it correct.
Vale,
G.Africanus Secundus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Album Gentium
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 07:46:34 -0700

Salve.

The changes have been made. What was unforntuate was that I forwarded the copy of the email I e-mailed Gn. Tarquinus Caesar....back in Late Feb\Early March. So not all of changes have been reflected that I made after that date. They are
corrected in the newer version that I will hopefully forward to Graecus sometime later this week.

At the moment I have to divide my time between the Tribes, Centuries, Updating the databases, and processing applications. Let me assure everyone that the Century Points are UPDATED! YES that is correct, they are completed. However, I am
working with Decius Iunius in regards to the placement of citzens in Centuries. Til I get his infomration I am stalled. The Tribes (for the new citizens are done). Placement of the 4 Rural Tribes (for those citizens who did not Vote in
the last election) have not yet started, I just recently got a list from C. Marius Merullus (last years Rogator), and will commence that probably today or tomorrow.

Currently I am still processing application that I recieved earlier this month.

Hope this helps

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

George VanDeWater wrote:

> Salve Censor Sulla,
> I know that you have worked deligently to correct errors in both these listings. Unfortunately I find that there are still errors for my Gens. Under the Plebeian Gentess the listing for Africania Secunda still has the following errors;
> Provincia- should be Southwest (as we are in Utah)
> email- --------ld be <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a> (drop the ut)
> Patro Deities- Minerva & Mithras
>
> In the Album Civis I believe my Centry Points are incorrect as I served as a Plebian aedile last year. This should bring it from 15 to 25. Also at what point will the additional name of memebrs of my Gens be added to the list?
>
> Since I am standing for election this year it would help to have it correct.
> Vale,
> G.Africanus Secundus
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/955377697/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/4/_/61050/_/955377697/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 789
From:	"Tinnekke Bebout" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=189176234185056182213038203004129208071" >tinnekke@--------</a>
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 15:41:37 GMT

"Oh, don't worry... Anyway, pietas without romanitas is not enough for me. I
think you will surely find this wise too. =)

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex"

Salve Graecus

After reading your definition of Romanitas, I must say I agree with you. A
combination of Romanitas and Pietas would be the best.:) However, if you do
have someone of deep Romanitas offer who might be an atherist or whatever, I
think their love of Rome will definitely still be an asset.

Vale

Cypria
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>

Subject:	[Fwd: Announcement]
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:08:27 -0700

This is a forward from Cassius :)

SF

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus is certainly deserving of recognition! He has been
> of great service to Nova Roma in many areas, including the Religio, the
> Senate, and as Praetor of the Lusitania Province. :)
>
> I'm not quite sure how much of a reward Patrician status is, since the two
> "classes" basically have equal status within Nova Roma. It's a good thing
> that Sulla did this however, as we have only a limited number of Patrician
> Gens, and better not to leave such positions vacant.
>
> In any case, Ave Antonius Gryllus Graecus!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Album Gentium
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 13:12:14 -0700

Salve.

For every citizen.....if there are updates, such as changes in e-mail
address's and Patron Dieties you want listed. PLEASE, let me know. I
am just about caught up with citizen applications and I would really
like to update the Album Gentium before I take my medical leave. :) So,
you have about 2 weeks to notify me.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Subject:	Censor Update
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 16:04:53 -0700

Salve

I apologize with all of my e-mails to the list. However I have just
completed the backlog of applicants. Our Current population is 425.

I have about about 21 pending applicants, who have issues. :)

Also, If any governor would like to e-mail me I can get them a list of
citizens in their Provincia.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Album Gentium
From:
Date:	Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:23:07 EDT

Salve!

The Gens Augustula no longer exists, but it's still on the Album Gentium.


For the Senate and the Roman People, Valete!
Drusus Cornelius Claudius


In a m--------g--------t--------/10/00 12:29:03 PM PST, <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< For every citizen.....if there are updates, such as changes in e-mail
address's and Patron Dieties you want listed. PLEASE, let me know. I
am just about caught up with citizen applications and I would really
like to update the Album Gentium before I take my medical leave. :) So,
you have about 2 weeks to notify me.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>>