Forum Romanum


Subject:	latin radio
From:	<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=123202250237229116184218046036129208" >gkbagne@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 00:51:27 -0000

Did you know you can get the weeks news sumarized in Latin on the
radio? Its on shortwave, satelite, and reelaudio on the net from
radio netherlands. You can get times and frequencies at
www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/index.html. There are transcripts on the web so
you can see if you understood it as well. My latin instruction was
strictly pen and paper stuff so I've never heard Latin used before!


Subject:	MIA: Collegium Pontificum List
From:
Date:	Tue, 02 May 2000 18:14:25 -0700

I just posted to it. Went to look at another post, and it GONE!
I was working on the Egroups Website, clicking tween messages.
I clicked back on the CollPOnt list and go the message
"Oop! There is not CollegiumPontif list."

I post this to here since most of the Pontiffs are here as well as the

folks who work on the 'puter mumbo-jumbo.

C. Aelius Ericius.


Subject:	Re: MIA: Collegium Pontificum List
From:
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 01:16:38 -0000

OOPS!!!!

I meant to address this to the Senate.

That comes from trying to do all this in two hours. LOL.

CAE

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, Razenna razenna@e... wrote:
> I just posted to it. Went to look at another post, and it GONE!
> I was working on the Egroups Website, clicking tween messages.
> I clicked back on the CollPOnt list and go the message
> "Oop! There is not CollegiumPontif list."
>
> I post this to here since most of the Pontiffs are here as well as
the
>
> folks who work on the 'puter mumbo-jumbo.
>
> C. Aelius Ericius.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Coming Together
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 21:20:01 EDT

Salve Consul Audens and Preator Graecus,

It is great to be on good terms with all else buried! With regard to
Roman Days, I cannot be there since my National Guard unit is going to be
doing its two week stint in New Jersey, unless I can luck out and get
assigned to go to Germany instead later in the year. But this is unlikely.

I emailed Palladius about the editorial policy and should hopefully have
a decent work for submission by late summer.

Do let me know if you need any help with this project. If this lady
needs any material or what-have-you, I can take it to her before June 2.

Festus


Subject:	"Classical Living"
From:
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 21:56:00 EDT

Salvete Feste et Omnes,

The copy of "Classical Living" which I ordered arrived today. I have only
had the opportunity to give it a quick look, but it appears to be quite
interesting. Also, the amazon.com price is something like $7.00 off the
cover price, FYI. Finally, from the first glance, I think there may be
sufficient religious trivia in it to make even the Honoured Pontifex Graecus
smile! :o)

Pax omnibus,
Acadianus Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Coming Together
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 21:59:57 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Festus;

I admit that not having to count on your fingers in regard to who your
enemies are is a great relief! It certainly assists in information
transfer!!! Grin!!!!

I hope you get your posting to Germany. It is the long sots that are
the more exciting!!! I will not be able to attend "Roman Days" either,
as I have a previous commitment. I am sorry not to be able to go, but
one cannot g everywhere and do everything.

My concerns in inviting the author that you have mentioned, have several
points none of which are related to the lady herself or to the book,
The problems as I see them are as follow:

--This is Mathew Amt and the Legio XX's event;

--I will be asking both he and the host organization to consider making
arrangements for recieving her and prooviding space for her to sell her
book and perhaps speak to the NR membership, and I have no idea how any
people are planning to attend. I have not recieved any further
information since I wrote you the letter. This information will be the
first thing that the Legio XX will want to know;

--As I understand the description of the book, although it seems to be a
interesting and useful read from your brief discussion, Mathew Amt and
the Legio XX 's main area of interest is in the Roman Military Machine,
it's weapons, tactics, and training. That being said, I would like to
know that a significant number of interested people will be in
attendance to make these arrangements.

--I would appreciate your comments on these thoughts.

Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "Classical Living"
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 22:38:11 EDT

I've only read the introduction so far. I may just read it through the year,
beginning with May and going through a bit at a time. It seems to be
designed that way.

You had a good price cut. No wonder Amazon doesn't make any money!

Festus


Subject:	Album gentium
From:
Date:	Tue, 02 May 2000 19:42:36 -0700

Salvete Omnes

I have already noticed a slight error on the Album gentium.....most of
the Patron Dieties are not listed. I dont exactly know what happend but
I will work to get this corrected by Friday too.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor


Subject:	Beginning on Friday
From:
Date:	Tue, 02 May 2000 19:44:44 -0700

I will resume the process of citizen applications. There is a backlog
due to the fact that the citizen form was not disabled during the
election. I can assure everyone that I did NOT process any applications
during that time. But there is now a backlog and I will work to get
that fixed beginning on Friday.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Coming Together
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 22:48:26 EDT

In a message dated 5/2/00 10:02:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< and I have no idea how any
people are planning to attend. I have not recieved any further
information since I wrote you the letter. >>

We need a show of hands from the citizenry here.

Even if the Roman Days idea falls through, I think NR can still establish
contact with the author, invite her to visit the web site, maybe send her
some literature and a free copy of the Eagle. After contact is made, if she
is intrigued by Nova Roma, an invitation to Roman Days can be issued.

I may email with a few more thoughts.

Festus


Subject:	Beginning on Friday
From:
Date:	Tue, 02 May 2000 19:40:46 -0700


Subject:	Re: amazon.com/Classical Living
From:
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 22:57:12 EDT

Salve Feste,

I've got stock in amazon.com! If they're not making money, I implore you:
Buy a dozen more copies!

Vale!
Ac. Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: amazon.com/Classical Living
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date:	Tue, 2 May 2000 23:00:17 EDT

In a message dated 5/2/00 10:57:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=243158113150082031172168000208172253098145044009209130152" >--------i--------dr----------------</--------; writes:

<< I've got stock in amazon.com! >>

I heard on the news radio {WTOP 1500am} that Amazon is selling a lot, but not
making a profit. Is this true?

Festus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Coming Together
From:
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 03:09:25 -0000

I have quite forgotten Who She is. It is a good idea to mention
names
often in circumstances like these. Also, I'm sure the Author would
not mind at all if she gets numerous name plugs. It could help sell
another book or two.

Take care an be well
C. Aelius Ericius
[who is staying in California Septentrionalis]

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, Lykaion1@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/2/00 10:02:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jmath669642reng@-------- --------es:
>
> << and I have no idea how any
> people are planning to attend. I have not recieved any further
> information since I wrote you the letter. >>
>
> We need a show of hands from the citizenry here.
>
> Even if the Roman Days idea falls through, I think NR can still
establish
> contact with the author, invite her to visit the web site, maybe
send her
> some literature and a free copy of the Eagle. After contact is
made, if she
> is intrigued by Nova Roma, an invitation to Roman Days can be
issued.
>
> I may email with a few more thoughts.
>
> Festus


Subject:	Timeline of Pagan Persecution
From:
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 00:15:26 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

As part of my on-going look into the persecution of pagans in the Later
Empire, I came across an interesting timeline ("The Triumph of
Christianity"!). However, it might be of interest to follow a few of the
dates that relate to the gradual increase in severity of the legal
contrivances devised to first create major hindrances for Paganism in the
Empire and then to eradicate it entirely. Ecce, igitur, partem historiae
nostrae sub imperatoribus christicolis:

342 Imperial Edict prohibits public sacrifices

356 Imperial Ban on Pagan Cult Practices

361- THE DIVINE JULIAN
363 Imperial Legislation restores Paganism; Imperial toleration of Pagan
cults

363 Julian murdered (alleged by the "Holy Mercurius" -- possibly
canonised by the Orthodox Church; I'm researching that character);
Emperor Jovian restores favoured position of Christianity

382- Dispute over Altar of Victory in Rome. (Remember Symmachus?)
384 One of his major opponents, BTW, was "St." Ambrose of Milan

391 Theodosios outlaws ALL Pagan sacrifices

392- Pagan aristocracy supports revolts of Eugenius and Arbogast in the
West
394 (I wonder why?)

394 Battle of Frigidus: Theodosios crushes the Pagan-inspired forces of
the West

528- Justinian purges administration of Pagans (one Orthodox group HAS, I
529 understand, canonised this monster, as well as his chippy wife,
Theodora)

529 Neoplatonic Philosophers of Athens migrate to Persia

535 Imperial laws against heretics, Jews and Pagans in North Africa

546 Second Purge of Pagans from the Administration

562 Third Purge of Pagans from the Administration

Obviously, we lasted for quite a while despite on-going and ever-increasing
harassment and persecution, including the closure of the Academy under
Justinian, and the massive collection and burning of Pagan texts under both
him and Theodosios (which is one of *why's* we don't know as much as we
otherwise might). And, equally obviously, not all of our noble forefathers
(and mothers) were as attracted to the "superior religion from the East" as
most extant authors would like us to believe. A sad history, perhaps, but
one in which we can take enormous pride. Vivat semper Roma, et bis vivat
Religio Romana.

Valete concives,
Acadianus Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Capite Velato
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 08:39:28 +0100

Salve Marce

>Dear Pontifex Salve.
>Most respectfully, I have some doubt:
>Saturnus is specifically a latin and italian god,
>even if he has a greek corresponding god
>Cronos if I am not wrong.
>He is considered so much ITALIAN that
>Virgilius if I remember well called ITALIA as
>" SATURNIA TELLUS ",
>So if capite velato goes in accordance
>with latin origin of the specific god
>and the contrary with the greek origin,
>then why
>might SATURNUS be honoured in a
>more "exotic" way like the typically
>greek Apollo and Heracles ?
>It looks incoherent at least not knowing more.
Very good question, but the fact is that Saturnus was honoured capite
aperto. I think that even the Romans had some difficulty answering this
question: when a certain Claudius (whose Gens was responsible for the cult
of Saturnus) celebrated the rites capite velato, he was reprimanded by the
Pontifex Maximus, for he should have done it capite aperto.
It must be noted that the Ritus Graecus appeared in a somewhat later date
(IIIrd or IInd century BC) where Greek influence was great. Although the
cult of Saturn was very ancient, an identification with Kronos may have
changed the procedures of the cult. As such, Saturnus was considered as the
Greek God Kronos looking for shelter after being expelled from Greece by
Zeus.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Capite Velato
From:	"Doug Barr" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114015211254158209218218186036129208" >dhkbarr@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 00:45:09 -0700

Well, now I am just completely confused. :)

Salvete Pontifex et omnes.

May I take it as a *general* rule that in any rite beyond the Daily Lararium
Rite, where the lucerna is lit or incense lit, the celebrant should be
capite velato unless the rite is to Saturnus or a particularly a
particularly Greek deity? (Apollo comes to mind, since He didn't even get a
Latin name.)

And I know that some gods are very definitely Roman -- Ianus, for only one
example -- but what of the Olympians and other gods that were imported from
Greece? Capite velato to Ceres but capite aperto to Demeter, and so on? Or
just what?

Sorry if this seems querulous, it's just that the whole capite velato rule
isn't something I've encountered before -- it's specifically Roman -- and it
irritates me that I can't do things right because I don't know how to do
them right. You know?

Valete
C. Albius Gadelicus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Capite Velato
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 09:43:01 +0100

Salve Albi Gadelice

>May I take it as a *general* rule that in any rite beyond the Daily
Lararium
>Rite, where the lucerna is lit or incense lit, the celebrant should be
>capite velato unless the rite is to Saturnus or a particularly a
>particularly Greek deity? (Apollo comes to mind, since He didn't even get a
>Latin name.)
Exactly.

>And I know that some gods are very definitely Roman -- Ianus, for only one
>example -- but what of the Olympians and other gods that were imported from
>Greece?
In fact not all were "imported". Many were ancient Latin deities Who were
IDENTIFIED WITH the Olympians. So, while Apollo is considered Greek,
Iuppiter is Roman, Iuno is Roman, Minerva is Roman.

>Capite velato to Ceres but capite aperto to Demeter, and so on? Or
>just what?
Ceres is an interesting case. She has 2 facets. The first is Roman,
represented by the Flamen Cerealis. The other is PURE Greek, represented by
a Greek (!!!) Sacerdos Publica. Neither of them makes use of the Roman Ritus
Graecus. The Flamen celebrates capite velato the traditional Ceres, while
the Sacerdos Publica celebrates in Greek way (of course capite aperto) in
Greek language with traditional Greek rites of Demeter. So, when honouring
the traditional Roman Ceres of thr state cult you should be capite velato
like the Flamen. On the other hand, if you seek to honour the Greek
Demeterian aspect of Ceres, you may use either a kind of Ritus Graecus (in
Latin language), or use traditional Greek procedures if you know then (e.g.
Homeric or Orphic hymns to Demeter).
Other cults such as Esculapius have only traditional Greek rites and no
public rites. For these, either Graecus ritus or traditional Geek rites are
Ok.

I know this sounds complex =). Simply email me when you have doubts on the
way to honour a deity =).

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	Re: Timeline of Pagan Persecution
From:	hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 12:29:29 +0200

Salve Acadiane Draco et alii

I read with a great interest your post and even have printed it for my
archives of NR discussions.
Just two short questions to you:

<<535 Imperial laws against heretics, Jews and Pagans in North
Africa>>

1. Which North Africa? Vandalish one or provinces under Empirial
control? I do not remember well at the moment at what time Belisarius
re-established there official administration?

<<392- Pagan aristocracy supports revolts of Eugenius and Arbogast
in the West >>...
<<394 Battle of Frigidus: Theodosios crushes the Pagan-inspired
forces of the West>>...
<<528- Justinian purges administration of Pagans (one Orthodox group
HAS, I understand, canonised this monster, as well as his chippy wife,
Theodora)>>...
<< And, equally obviously, not all of our noble forefathers
(and mothers) were as attracted to the "superior religion from the East"
as most extant authors would like us to believe. ...A sad history,
perhaps, but one in which we can take enormous pride.>>

Reading your post one can imagine that all the evil come from East to
the West (sounds quite familiar and in accordance with modern
stereotypes and political propaganda, isn't it?). But there exist one
other and different opinion too: that The Eastern Empire was who saved
the achievments of ancient culture and philosophy from the Barbarians
hordas. Actually if you speaks about persecutions against other
believers, I would like to call your attention to medieval history.
There have never exist on the East so massive and total persecutions as
we know from West European countries. Just remember for a while The
Incvisition, burning the whiches, French protestants, Spanish rule over
Netherlands, Crossades, the destiny of Indians in America (50 millions
brutaly murdered humans), etc etc etc
I am proud to be from the East and with our history too. In the same
time when the Jews in western Europe were persecuted, murdered and
forced to become Catholics - the second city of importance Thessaloniki
was for example mainly Jewish and there is not any record of any racial
or religious persecution against them.
We on the East are accustomed to live in a religiously and ethnicaly non
homogenious space, while that one is from historicaly view point (200 or
300 years is not history) new experience for westerners.
I do understand some cites from your posts as an attack against our
(eastern) history. Please, do not use that forum for propagating any
stereotypical myths about evil easterners. In such a case there is
plenty of historical facts which I would present for opposing you.

Bene vale and try to save the peace on the list

Alexander I.C. Probus

Pannonian Propraetor


Subject:	ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem V Nonas Mai (May 3rd)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 12:24:28 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is a dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote on
political or criminal matters.

This is the last day of the Floralia, and Games take place at the Circus
Maximus. Hoats and hares are hunted in the Circus Maximus prior to the
Games.

Pax Deorum vobiscum

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Timeline of Pagan Persecution
From:	Mar--------O--------ius Germani--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 08:07:42 -0500 (CDT)

On Wed, 3 May 2000, hadji wrote:

> << And, equally obviously, not all of our noble forefathers
> (and mothers) were as attracted to the "superior religion from the East"
> as most extant authors would like us to believe. ...A sad history,
> perhaps, but one in which we can take enormous pride.>>
>
> Reading your post one can imagine that all the evil come from East to
> the West (sounds quite familiar and in accordance with modern
> stereotypes and political propaganda, isn't it?).

That didn't look like a slur on the East to me -- merely dispelling
a popular myth that just happens to use the word "East".

Octavius

--
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
Graveyards of Chicago: |
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |


Subject:	Update on Religio in US Courts
From:	Donald and Crystal Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 08:47:38 -0700

Salvete,

We are in the final stages now. With the signing of about a half dozen
release of information forms all should be ready to go. We hope to get
the date moved up from the August date. At that time we will, hopefully
have the official description (official meaning State of Texas and not
Nova Roma) of the Religio Romana. We are still unsure if Nova Roma would
be interested in this validation of the Religio, as it has been called
the "Meaker Religion" and so I don't know if I should actually forward
the report or simply paraphrase.

Using the word "faith" has gotten my slammed in the past. But that is
one of the words I use. I have "faith" or a BELIEF in the gods to take
care of my family as they deserve to be taken care of. Not hiding our
religion has brought great rewards to our family in that my husband will
be allowed to adopt my daughter. Had we taken the advice to hide or
downplay our religion we would have found trouble indeed! I believe it
WAS our belief (since the word faith is bad) in our religion which has
given us this easy road to my daughters future.

If anyone is interested in seeing this report when it becomes public,
please let me know. As the "Meaker Religion" we benefit no one but
ourselves. As the "Religio Romana" there is hope that all Roman Pagans
may have their religion out of the closet and public, as Wicca has been.
Maybe we can give others the strength to come out. There is no shame in
the Religio Romana, at least not in the way we practice it, and those
besides us who practice it need not be so afraid anymore.

Texas courts have a reputation (I hear) for being
anti-anything-not-Christian, anti-anything-not-white(Catholic mostly, I
think), and anti-gay. Should Don continue along this path and be allowed
by this tough court system to adopt my daughter, it will be a banner day
for us! Perhaps even precedent setting.

Pax,
Crystal Meaker


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Album gentium
From:	"George VanDeWater" <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 08:28:56 -0600

Salve Sulla,
Thank you for you time and service to Nova Roma. When you go back into =
the Album Gentium could you make a change to my email address. Drop the ut =
at the end. It is causing a bounce.

Just as a reminder our Deities are Minerva and Methras.

Vale,=20

G. Africanus Secundus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Timeline of Pagan Persecution
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 10:38:22 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete, All;

I am sorry to see the beginning of "don't tread on me" arising from this
very interesting discussion in regard to Pagan Persecution. I am
interested in setting the history of this thread in my own mind right,
by finding new information which has been to a great degree suppressed
by those in my world seeking to tell only one side of the story.

As an example, one of my ancestors apparently shot and killed a deputy
sheriff in West Texas (American West), and absconded with a large sum of
money, to the neighboring state of Mexico, in the period following the
American Civil War (1870-1875). While I do not condone his actions, I
do not judge them either, and I have recorded the story in my family
history as a matter of great interest to me, against the rather violent
protests of some of my older relatives.

I have recently had some difficulty with the clarity of my anologies, so
please bear with me!! The above discussion relates to the actions of
the Pagan Persecution by those who engaged in it East or West, in that
it makes little difference who did what, but rather the importance is
that both sides of this discussion entered into Persecuton practices
when they became "top dog" as it were. The recollection of those
actions does not reflect upon personages or values of this present
world, any more than I should be held responsible for the actions of my
ancestor, but it does reflect upon man's basic inhumanity to man, in
general, which is the topic under discussion. It is the lesson that all
men take advantage of other men under a given set of conditions,
regardless of religion, creed or belief, that is beng discussed here,
not what group is "responsible" for those acts at the present time.

I am a Christian by belief, but that does not hamper my ability or my
willingness to recognize the vicious, persecutive nature of another
Christian should the evidence make the fact so, any more than I believe
that all pagans are bloodthirsty savages. People are people, and they
are shaped by the culture, trainng, and the times around them as well as
their own desires, accumulated experiences, and personal nature. All
Protestants are not "good", all Catholics are not "bad," all pagans are
not "wierd," and all atheists are not "chaotic." I ask that in this
discussion, perhaps we not try so hard to defend our "sacred
institutions" of religion, state, culture, and friends, while we delve
further into this very interesting topic of discussion and mold our
minds more to little known facts that to established fictions.

Valete, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Timeline of Pagan Persecution
From:
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 10:56:54 EDT

Salve Probe, Pannoniae Propraeter,

I'm happy that you found some use for the Timeline. I will look into your
question regarding "which Africa" (the source I used was not specific, though
I suspect Egypt and the non-Vandal areas of eastern North Africa as it was
about this time that the Temple of Isis on Philae was closed and desecrated).
I will get back to you on this matter when I have additional information.

As to other observations you have made, I would be delighted to discuss both
your well-taken points and my own personal views and interpretations
privately so that we may understand each other's perspective. I will respond
later this evening, when I have returned from work and hope to have a lively
and informative discussion with you without any possibility of disturbing the
Peace of the List. Okay?

But, on one point I would like to speak to the List, and I ask you, Probe, to
please trust me in one regard: I am not against "Easterners" in any way and
am only "against" a handful of things which "originated" in a location which
lies easterly of that from which my own ancestors hail. You and I can
discuss my "Eastern connexions" soon, offlist -- I believe that you may be
pleasantly surprised with my "credentials" in that regard. :o)

Valete omnes et, tibi Probo Aestimato, Pacem et Amicitiam sinceram offero,
Acadianus Draco


Subject:	Resignation
From:
Date:	Wed May 03 11:58:46 2000

Salvete Omnes,

In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my resignation as a Citizen of Nova Roma.

I regret in having offended some few so mortally.

It has been a great honour to be with you all, even for so brief a time, and to get to know a handful of you well, profiting for your vast store of knowledge and insights has been a sheer delight to me. With your permission, I would love to remain in contact with some of you privately. I cannot, however, in good conscience, risk offending other citizens by posting further observations or results of research which will invariably result in disgruntlement on the part of one faction or another.

Pax omnibus -- I dare not wish to you the blessing of the Ancient Gods lest it be taken as a sign of Anti-Christian propaganda! Ergo, in exsilium volontate mea, io ... :o)

Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	Mar--------O--------ius Germani--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 11:01:45 -0500 (CDT)

> In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this
> morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the
> sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my
> resignation as a Citizen of Nova Roma.

You're a valuable contributor here, and if you let a few
ill-mannered hotheads chase you off, they'll have won, and we'll all be
the worse for it.

Pleas stay. Your presence and writings are welcome, and those that
can't deal with should be the ones to leave.

M. Octavius Germanicus

--
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
Graveyards of Chicago: |
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	Mar--------O--------ius Germani--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 11:08:00 -0500 (CDT)

On Wed, 3 May 2000, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> Pleas stay. Your presence and writings are welcome, and those that
> can't deal with should be the ones to leave.

*That* was obviously written in haste!

It should read: "Those who can't deal with it should be the ones
to leave." I re-assert my statement; Acadianus Draco's message
was interesting and useful, and if he is being harassed for it,
then the poltroons who are doing so should be revealed for
what they are. Don't leave, Draco. Don't let them win.

Octavius

--
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
Graveyards of Chicago: |
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 17:01:57 +0100

Salve Draco

I subscribe to what Octavius says. Do not resign for so little.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

-----Original Message-----
From: Mar--------O--------ius Germani--------<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Cc: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=243158113150082031172168000208172253098145044009209130152" >--------i--------dr----------------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=243158113150082031172168000208172253098145044009209130152" >--------i--------dr----------------</--------;
Date: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Resignation

>
>> In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this
>> morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the
>> sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my
>> resignation as a Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
>You're a valuable contributor here, and if you let a few
>ill-mannered hotheads chase you off, they'll have won, and we'll all be
>the worse for it.
>
>Pleas stay. Your presence and writings are welcome, and those that
>can't deal with should be the ones to leave.
>
>M. Octavius Germanicus
>
>--
>Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) |
>konoko Network Consulting | Microsoft delenda est.
>Graveyards of Chicago: |
><a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> |
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Now the best and coolest websites come right to you based on your
>unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching.
>And, it's FREE!
><a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3013/4/_/61050/_/957369733/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3013/4/_/61050/_/957369733/</a>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=132056219182127132169218031036129208" &g--------curia@--------&l--------&g--------td>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 11:31:15 -0500

Salve meus amicus et bonus sapiens magister:

If I have offended you, please forgive me. That was never intended. As I
read the discussing and responses, there were remarks made that came across
as very hateful and disturbing. I have experienced some persecution for my
faith in Christ in several areas of my life; the most heart breaking from
members of my own family. It all sounds the same sometimes. And I do take
things to heart when I don't need too. Please do not leave meus
carrussimuss magister. I love you very much as a friend.

Rufa Paula Cornelia
Miles Romanus
Tormentrix
Ferrum Romae fero.

----------
>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=243158113150082031172168000208172253098145044009209130152" >--------i--------dr----------------</--------;
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Resignation
>Date: Wed, May 3, 2000, 11:58 AM
>

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this
> morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the
> sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my resignati=
on
> as a Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
> I regret in having offended some few so mortally.
>
> It has been a great honour to be with you all, even for so brief a time,
> and to get to know a handful of you well, profiting for your vast store o=
f
> knowledge and insights has been a sheer delight to me. With your
> permission, I would love to remain in contact with some of you privately.
> I cannot, however, in good conscience, risk offending other citizens by
> posting further observations or results of research which will invariably
> result in disgruntlement on the part of one faction or another.
>
> Pax omnibus -- I dare not wish to you the blessing of the Ancient Gods le=
st
> it be taken as a sign of Anti-Christian propaganda! Ergo, in exsilium
> volontate mea, io ... :o)
>
> Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get paid for the stuff you know!
> Get answers for the stuff you don=92t. And get $10 to spend on the site!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/4/_/61050/_/957369536/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/4/_/61050/_/957369536/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:43 +0100

Salvete

We as followers of the Religio Romana have the right to have our martyrs in
the same way as you, Nazarenes, have. If you cannot live with it I remind
you that this is not the city of Constantine. The traditional Religio Romana
rules here and our state Gods must be honoured independently of inner faith.
Hail to our martyrs!
We regret our persecutions as much as you should regret yours.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"George VanDeWater" <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 11:16:29 -0600

Salve,
Don"t let a few ill-mannered people chase you off, If you do they will =
have won. Nova Roma and our new society will be the worse off for it. Your =
contributions here ARE of value to many of us and you provide a source of =
interesting contemplation.

Please stay and help us to make NR a better place for all. Let those that =
can't deal with it leave.

Vale,
Gaius Africanus Secundus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 13:31:04 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Draco;

Please let me add my voice to the voices of the others asking you to
remain. My last post I hope indicated my interest in your research and
your topic. I should be extremely disappointed to see you leave NR.

I ask you as the Consul of NR and as a new friend, very interested in
your research, to endure these thoughtless comments made at times like
these. It is occurances like this that make me wonder at the success of
my own religion, and berate the small-mindedness of those who are so
ignorant as not to be able to see the values of others as being equally
important as thier own. I say damn all who act as judge and jury in the
affairs, beliefs and values of others as long as such does not interfere
with them, and I ask you, Draco (my new friend) to please reconsider
your hasty action and return here to share your research and ideas.

I have not been vocal in other areas where NR members have chosen to
leave, for a variety of reasons, even though I deeply regret thier
decisions, but in this case I feel that I must respond. To my mind
Draco, his research and his postings represent all those that we hope to
attract to NR with new and fresh ideas, lines of research, and new
avenues of thought

I further say, in reference to those who cannot and will not consider
the content of their posts as injurous to others because of your
personnally and jealously held attributes, do you wish to tear this
union apart?? For surely you will do so unless this foolishness
ceases!!!

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: Resignation
From:	"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 13:33:27 -0400

Salvete Adriane Ari et Marce Octavi et alii

Octavius Germanicus is right. Maybe I missed something, but I have never
seen any personal attack or hate talk inserted into any message of yours.

If we care about what we discuss, we are bound perpetually to disagree, even
vehemently at times. As long as we all try to respect each other, we should
be able to handle it. If not, we'll never learn anything.

Please come back. If you really need a break, unsubscribe from the list for
a nundina.

Valete

C Marius Merullus

>You're a valuable contributor here, and if you let a few
>ill-mannered hotheads chase you off, they'll have won, and we'll all be
>the worse for it.
>
>Pleas stay. Your presence and writings are welcome, and those that
>can't deal with should be the ones to leave.
>
>M. Octavius Germanicus
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 13:38:26 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, All;
In my anger and frustration I forgot to sign my last post. I would
suppose that most would recognize the lowercase format of my writing but
for those who did not:

Vale, Respectfully and Most Sincerely;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject:	Do Not Resign, Draco :(
From:	"susan brett" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061158091009093031223225065148243223136058139046209" >scriba_forum@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 17:48:36 GMT

Salve, Acadianus Draco:

Like most of your posts, I come away a more learned and enlightened person.
As a lover of "All Things Roman", I have an interest and a respect for the
beliefs of the Ancients, and the history of these beliefs, although I
personally do not subscribe to the Religio.

I was in no manner "offended" as a Christian by this interesting post
relating an historical timeline. I see nothing persecutory about it, and
having read your other posts, you are simply not that kind of person.

As I recall, you were on line over the Easter weekend, and you were kind and
pragmatic enough to wish those of us Christian civites a Happy Easter.

Face it folks, if we can't share this stuff in the Forum of an organization
pledged of a love of "All Things Roman"...there's something wrong.

Please don't leave, Draco...you just keep on doing what you're doing. Your
departure would be a big loss for NR.

In Amicitia :), :), :)
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo

eply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Resignation
>Date: Wed May 03 11:58:46 2000
>
>Salvete Omnes,
>
>In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this
>morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the
>sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my resignation
>as a Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
>I regret in having offended some few so mortally.
>
>It has been a great honour to be with you all, even for so brief a time,
>and to get to know a handful of you well, profiting for your vast store of
>knowledge and insights has been a sheer delight to me. With your
>permission, I would love to remain in contact with some of you privately.
>I cannot, however, in good conscience, risk offending other citizens by
>posting further observations or results of research which will invariably
>result in disgruntlement on the part of one faction or another.
>
>Pax omnibus -- I dare not wish to you the blessing of the Ancient Gods lest
>it be taken as a sign of Anti-Christian propaganda! Ergo, in exsilium
>volontate mea, io ... :o)
>
>Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"Robert Williamson" <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=194233250056127134015037190036129" >robert@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 16:49:57 -0400

Salv� Draco: Along with the others who have already replied to your
resignation, I also ask you to please re-consider. Although you and I have
only had a couple of e-mails back and forth, I have come to appreciate your
knowledge and humour, and realise that you are a great asset to Nova Roma. I
consider you a friend because of your kind offer of assistance in my study
of the Latin language. I think that what sometimes happens is that we can
from time to time let our emotions get the better of us and say things that
hurt or insult when we would have said something intelligent if we had taken
a few moments longer to think about the subject under discussion. Instead we
sometimes are too quick on the keyboard. We must try to rise above these
petty squables. There is room for both Pagan and Christian in Nova Roma. We
have Pagan citizens who have contributed much to Nova Roma. And we also have
Christian Nova Romans who have done the same. Nova Roma would be poorer if
either were lost. We should try to work together for Nova Roma as Christian
and Pagan. Forgive me for turning this into a little lecture to others out
there. I just don't want to see Nova Roma get torn apart over these
arguments that have been going on lately. ... Pax Vobiscum.
... Appius Marcellus Cato.

Post Scriptum: Again, please reconsider Draco! I wish you and yours
well. May the gods watch over you.

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=243158113150082031172168000208172253098145044009209130152" >--------i--------dr----------------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 11:58 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Resignation

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received this
morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged, for the sake
of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit my resignation as a
Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
> I regret in having offended some few so mortally.
>
> It has been a great honour to be with you all, even for so brief a time,
and to get to know a handful of you well, profiting for your vast store of
knowledge and insights has been a sheer delight to me. With your
permission, I would love to remain in contact with some of you privately. I
cannot, however, in good conscience, risk offending other citizens by
posting further observations or results of research which will invariably
result in disgruntlement on the part of one faction or another.
>
> Pax omnibus -- I dare not wish to you the blessing of the Ancient Gods
lest it be taken as a sign of Anti-Christian propaganda! Ergo, in exsilium
volontate mea, io ... :o)
>
> Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get paid for the stuff you know!
> Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/4/_/61050/_/957369536/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/4/_/61050/_/957369536/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"Doug Barr" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114015211254158209218218186036129208" >dhkbarr@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 10:11:02 -0700

I'd like to add my voice to this.

Reste donc, Acadien! Tu nous manquerais trop si tu t'en allais.

Octavius is right, if you leave you let the crazies win. The bad crazies, I
mean. :)

> It should read: "Those who can't deal with it should be the ones
> to leave." I re-assert my statement; Acadianus Draco's message
> was interesting and useful, and if he is being harassed for it,
> then the poltroons who are doing so should be revealed for
> what they are. Don't leave, Draco. Don't let them win.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Capite Velato
From:	"Doug Barr" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114015211254158209218218186036129208" >dhkbarr@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 11:10:45 -0700

Salve Grylle Pontifex!

Thank you, with a general rule I don't feel so twitchy about possibly
causing offense to the gods.

I did do the ritus Kalendarum (Latin version) on the website, on May 1. Not
having a toga to hand, I figured that I could do capite velato
symbolically -- what my across-the-street neighbours may have thought of the
guy standing at his kitchen table waving his arms about with a scarf on his
head, I don't like to dwell on. :) But it *was* done, at least.

Speaking of togae and such, does anyone know of a decent book or website
that tells you how to drape the damn thing? I've seen a couple, but one made
reference to "rolling up" the excess (under the right arm) and then throwing
that over the left shoulder, which I just can't get to visualize correctly.
(Though it would no doubt help enormously if I had an actual toga to work
with, which I'm working on.)

I find it somewhat ironic that, thanks to a former roommate of Indian
provenance, I can drape, wear, walk in, and generally inhabit a sari better
than most white *women* can -- and I've taught enough white women to know --
but the toga, so far, defeats me. I nearly considered using one of my saris
(I buy them "cheap like dirt" in Little India for use as wall-hangings,
etc.) that's white with a purple border, and throwing the free end over my
head to simulate capite velato (which, in fact, is *precisely* what Hindu
women do to pray), for the Kalendae ritual. But I wasn't sure if it was
appropriate, being a boy and all <grin>, so I went with clean street-clothes
and the afore-mentioned scarf.

Help with toga-draping would be *much* appreciated.

Valete omnes,
C. Albius Gadelicus


Subject:	Re: Resignation
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166234009056153112037203168129208071" >danielov@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 19:11:22 -0000

Ave optime amice:
L. Pompeius Octavianus Adriano Ario Arcadiano Draco S.P.D.:
I regret very much your resignation. That=B4s really too bad. You
are
one of the few I made acquaintance here at NR. And I think you are
very valuable for Nova Roma. Your resignation means a big loss for NR.
That makes me very sad.
Pax tecum et bona fortuna
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, acadianusdraco@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> In view of certain extremely vocal e-mails which I have received
this morning regarding my posting of the "Timeline," I feel obliged,
for the sake of peace and tranquility within the Republic, to submit
my resignation as a Citizen of Nova Roma.
>
> I regret in having offended some few so mortally.
>
> It has been a great honour to be with you all, even for so brief a
time, and to get to know a handful of you well, profiting for your
vast store of knowledge and insights has been a sheer delight to me.
With your permission, I would love to remain in contact with some of
you privately. I cannot, however, in good conscience, risk offending
other citizens by posting further observations or results of research
which will invariably result in disgruntlement on the part of one
faction or another.
>
> Pax omnibus -- I dare not wish to you the blessing of the Ancient
Gods lest it be taken as a sign of Anti-Christian propaganda! Ergo,
in exsilium volontate mea, io ... :o)
>
> Adrianus Arius Acadianus Draco


Subject:	Draco!
From:
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 19:13:03 -0000

Resign! No! Besides what the others have said, you should also
consider negative replies ot one's posts as proof that they are
being reead by one and all. [more or less]

Actually you should think of them as a tessera to wear on your lorica.
You were wearing your lorica, weren't you? As that novelist had
Iulianus the Martyr say before he died, "Always wear armor in
warfare." Warfare? Here? A clash of ideas? Non. Niemals! [oops,
wrong lingo!]

Besides, if you quit now you won't get to watch the other folks
in this arena going at it.

Okay. I'll say, "Please!"
There. I said it. Please?

Di Deaque te ament.
Bene vale.

C. Aelius Ericus.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Draco!
From:
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 12:27:22 -0700

I agree....I have chatted with you alot on AIM! Please dont go....I have
truly enjoyed your company!!! I even throughly enjoyed the Timeline..and I
have printed it out....(That isnt something I do very often!) Please dont
leave NR.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Razenna wrote:

> Resign! No! Besides what the others have said, you should also
> consider negative replies ot one's posts as proof that they are
> being reead by one and all. [more or less]
>
> Actually you should think of them as a tessera to wear on your lorica.
> You were wearing your lorica, weren't you? As that novelist had
> Iulianus the Martyr say before he died, "Always wear armor in
> warfare." Warfare? Here? A clash of ideas? Non. Niemals! [oops,
> wrong lingo!]
>
> Besides, if you quit now you won't get to watch the other folks
> in this arena going at it.
>
> Okay. I'll say, "Please!"
> There. I said it. Please?
>
> Di Deaque te ament.
> Bene vale.
>
> C. Aelius Ericus.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets
> you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3012/4/_/61050/_/957381193/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3012/4/_/61050/_/957381193/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Censorial Edicta - Gender Naming Policy
From:
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 20:33:55 +0100

O si divi volentii... consider the transexuality of Iuppiter, of Hercules,
of Attis, of Dionysius, of Minerva, and then ask yourselves, Sullus and the
rest, whether your badly-thought-out platitudes that cross-gender behaviour
is somehow dishonest, are not only facile, but also impious.

I hope and trust that the Senate and People of Nova Roma will indeed
overturn this gratuitous piece of hurtful foolishness, which was rushed in
as an Edictum Censorium, without any preliminary consultation or debate.

Vado.

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Censorial Edicta - Gender Naming Policy

> Dex you arent defending anything. Its LAW. Its done for unless the
Senate
> or People of Nova Roma overturn it.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=114056131009152219130232203140129208071" >dexippus@--------</--------;
> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 9:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Censorial Edicta - Gender Naming Policy
>
>
> > In a message dated 4/26/00 6:18:45 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a> writes:
> >
> > << I don't have to deal with anything Dex. I am not the one whining
like
> a
> > spoiled little brat about a perfectly just and fair law. >>
> >
> > Considering that I don't have a gender-identification issue, but I'm
> > defending the rights of those citizens (past, present, and future) who
> > may...how am I acting like a spoiled brat? It would seem to me that you
> and
> > others are the ones fighting to get your way.
> >
> > --Dex
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Do you love your Mother?
> > Click Here
> > <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3652/4/_/61050/_/956808899/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3652/4/_/61050/_/956808899/</a>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You set the price on thousands of products. Computers, electronics,
> art, home appliances and more. Visit uBid today!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3026/4/_/61050/_/956809295/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3026/4/_/61050/_/956809295/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NR in French
From:
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 21:13:24 +0100

Salve!

Je m'en interesse! Allons!

Vale,

Vado.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cornelius Scriptor <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=219233091185056153036168000126229241039102131192183239161126172205142" >cornelius_scriptor@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 9:39 PM
Subject: [novaroma] NR in French

> Salvete
>
> I'm the one who was entrusted in translating the NR site in French.
> It's now up, but faaaaaar from completed. I don't have much free
> time, so it took a little longer than expected. You can see it there:
> <a href="http://cornelius_scriptor.tripod.com/index_fr.html" target="_top" >http://cornelius_scriptor.tripod.com/index_fr.html</a>
>
> I do need some help to continue the translation. It's not difficult,
> but it requires time I sadly lack. I have some ideas of sections to
> add to the site (like a book review i'm working on), but it will have
> to wait.
> Also, I could be a nice idea to regroup french-speaking citizens into
> an association, or at least a mailing list, so we can stay in
> contact. E-mail me if you're interested, we'll see what we can do.
>
> Valete
>
> Marcus Cornelius Scriptor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/4/_/61050/_/957127146/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/4/_/61050/_/957127146/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Capite Velato
From:
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 21:19:34 +0100

Salvete Cai Albi Gadelice et alterii

Only when you sacrifice, because of the potential for negative omens to
intrude. Daily lararium prayers without sacrifice, IMHO, do not require the
president to be capite velato.

Pace deorum,

Vado.

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Barr <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114015211254158209218218186036129208" >dhkbarr@--------</a>
To: Nova Roma List <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:43 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Capite Velato

> Salvete omnes:
>
> Not having been paid recently -- ergo, having currently no money to blow
on
> yet more lovely books :) -- I'm wondering if the citizens on this list can
> define for me when one should be capite velato. Capite velato is a
> specifically Roman thing, as far as I can tell -- neither the Greeks nor
the
> Celts seem to have done it.
>
> I notice that one need not be capite velato in the performance of the
daily
> lararium rite, but in the rites for the Kalends, Nones, and Ides, it is
> required.
>
> I had *thought*, therefore, that for rituals involving the major deities,
or
> public rituals, that capite velato is required, but not for rites
involving
> only the Lares and Di Penates.
>
> Then I read that various emperors had such gods as Iuppiter as "Di
Penates,"
> and therefore concluded that, besides the "small gods" of the storerooms,
> "Di Penates" means "hearth-gods" and by extension the tutelary
deity/deities
> of the familia or gens are included.
>
> So, if I'm doing a private rite for, e.g. Iuppiter as a "Deus Penatis" (?)
> of my familia/gens, should I be capite velato or not?
>
> Valete
> C. Albius Gadelicus
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/4/_/61050/_/957215394/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/4/_/61050/_/957215394/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


Subject:	Let's calm down
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:34 EDT

Salve Draco,

I am asking the censors here and now to grant your request for
termination, AFTER at least a 24 hour waiting period. I hope you will
rethink this choice. Remember that you were concerned I had dropped out when
I was busy and stopped posting for a while?
Now why are you so anxious to run off?

Surely a days waiting period is not a whole lot to ask? Reading the replies
above, it would seem that at least one of the people concerned about your
post does not want you to leave. So why jump into the Tiber to drown?
{Hell...if you hang around me long enough, someone will likely push you in
anyway, so why rush it?}

Gaius Lupinius Festus


Subject:	hmmmm
From:	w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 03 May 2000 15:00:57 -0700

RETimeline of Pagan Persecution etc.
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:29:29 +0200
From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
Subject: Re: Timeline of Pagan Persecution

Salve Acadiane Draco et alii

I read with a great interest your post and even have printed it for my
archives of NR discussions.
Just two short questions to you:

<<535 Imperial laws against heretics, Jews and Pagans in North
Africa>>

1. Which North Africa? Vandalish one or provinces under Empirial
control? I do not remember well at the moment at what time Belisarius
re-established there official administration?

<<392- Pagan aristocracy supports revolts of Eugenius and Arbogast
in the West >>...
<<394 Battle of Frigidus: Theodosios crushes the Pagan-inspired
forces of the West>>...
<<528- Justinian purges administration of Pagans (one Orthodox group
HAS, I understand, canonised this monster, as well as his chippy wife,

Theodora)>>...
<< And, equally obviously, not all of our noble forefathers
(and mothers) were as attracted to the "superior religion from the East"

as most extant authors would like us to believe. ...A sad history,
perhaps, but one in which we can take enormous pride.>>

Reading your post one can imagine that all the evil come from East to
the West (sounds quite familiar and in accordance with modern
stereotypes and political propaganda, isn't it?). But there exist one
other and different opinion too: that The Eastern Empire was who saved
the achievments of ancient culture and philosophy from the Barbarians
hordas. Actually if you speaks about persecutions against other
believers, I would like to call your attention to medieval history.
There have never exist on the East so massive and total persecutions as
we know from West European countries. Just remember for a while The
Incvisition, burning the whiches, French protestants, Spanish rule over

Netherlands, Crossades, the destiny of Indians in America (50 millions
brutaly murdered humans), etc etc etc
I am proud to be from the East and with our history too. In the same
time when the Jews in western Europe were persecuted, murdered and
forced to become Catholics - the second city of importance Thessaloniki
was for example mainly Jewish and there is not any record of any racial
or religious persecution against them.
We on the East are accustomed to live in a religiously and ethnicaly non

homogenious space, while that one is from historicaly view point (200 or

300 years is not history) new experience for westerners.
I do understand some cites from your posts as an attack against our
(eastern) history. Please, do not use that forum for propagating any
stereotypical myths about evil easterners. In such a case there is
plenty of historical facts which I would present for opposing you.

Bene vale and try to save the peace on the list

Alexander I.C. Probus

Pannonian Propraetor

Dear Alexander
the Time line can be seen in ANY good book on the Subect
all you havr to do is look at the Corpus Juris Civilis Justinian
to see anti pagan hate laws. for more on the time raed the history of
the byzantine state by ostrogorsky


Subject:	Resignation?!
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=014130014161146028033082190" >bvm3@--------</a>
Date:	Thu, 04 May 2000 00:28:11 +0200

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus Adriano Ario Arcadiano Draco et
Omnibus S.P.D

Don't do it amice! You are one of the most likeable and
impressive people I have met with in Nova Roma. Your
intelligence, modesty, humour, and team-spiritedness have
enabled you to make a great contribution to the Sodalitas
Latinitatis, and I have it very much to heart that you
should go on making contributions there. We need what you
have to offer.

After my pleas for *comitas* on the list, it is indeed
dismaying to see that some people have now started to attack
others in a more private but equally destructive manner. Is
it really possible that so few people are able to express
strong disagreement and protest without *nastiness*?

Christians have made it very much a matter of public
knowledge how they were martyred at the hands of pagans. We
now live in a time where most people would like to get a
balanced and truer picture of who did what to whom in the
past, not to seek revenge, but just to have everything fair
and clear. If a citizen of Nova Roma, a place specially
designed to protect the free practice and discussion of the
Religio Romana, cannot publish the facts about pagan
martyrs, then where can it be done?

Acadianus has said nothing inflamatory or hateful, and it is
obvious to me that he is not the kind of person likely to do
so. If everyone leaves Nova Roma at the drop of a hat
(sometimes not even using legal remedies which the
Constitution entitles them to), then we are impoverished. If
people who simply lose interest leave, that is regrettable,
but not a catastrophe. If some of the most active and
committed people are driven out, whether by offical
unbendingness or the sheer nastiness of some among us, it is
destructive for our whole community.

Therefore, I would urge people to stay here and fight for
what they believe in (in a decent and proper way). Continue
to contribute, continue to count, continue to have an
influence for the better here. Roma was never a very
tranquil place, but it managed not only to hold itself
together (somehow!), but to bring the people of a large part
of the world together.

I am looking forward to seeing more of the history of
martyrs presented, too, so that those with envenomed tongues
will not be rewarded by success in stifling freedom of
research and publication.

Mane nobiscum, O Acadiane!

Apollonius
-----------------------------
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Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]