Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Announcement
From:
Date:	Tue, 9 May 2000 20:46:18 EDT

In a message dated 5/9/00 3:33:01 PM Paci--------Daylight Time, <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
writes:

<< Nobody DENIES you anything !
And you are nobody's victim.
Nobody tried EVER to silence you,
and even now nobody , including me ,
does not ask your expulsion or you to be denied any right,
and much less that of free speech.
>>

Salve,

I'm afraid you've wasted your breath. He's unsubscribed himself from the
list.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Announcement
From:	"Augusti--------ulia Caesaria Noctur--------#34; <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=091176219007018031015158190036129" >--------la@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 00:16:07 +0100

Salvete Omnes!

I do believe it is time for me to step in here.
Alex is part of my Gens and always shall, be he is a good friend and an
extremely wonderful person.

As for Prometheous claiming he was merely stating facts, well Prometheous,
there are a great number of facts I could state about the United States of
Amertica ( I believe you are American, if not forgive me I can probably find
many about whatever country you come from!) both modern and past that would
likely upset and annoy many of our American Citizens.

This was done to provoke Alex and I think he deserves one Hell of an apology
from you.

In losing Alex we have lost a great Citizen and, as Graecus always says, no
one is a winner.
Though it does seem that Prometheous has declared himself the victor!


> > I would like to let you know that I have requested our Censors to remove
> > me from the Citizen list and to deny my citizenship.


> Nobody DENIES you anything !

This is Alex's phrasing, he means to give up his citizenship. Alex's first
language is NOT English, he tries his best, I would like to see how much
Slovakian you speak!

> Your big ego is not served well enough from the usual 3 or four
> roman names so you call yourself Iulius Caesar Alexander Macedonicus,
> and what names! All the 5 imperial names.
> So, please come down from your imaginary column and
> stay in the forum to discuss freely on an equal feet
> with people with NO LESS rights than yours.

This is a direct personal attack.

The Iulius Caesarius is his family name.
I am his materfamilias, of the Gens Iulia Caesaria.
*I* chose the name!!
In attacking my Son you have attacked my Gens and myself.
In attacking his name you have personally attacked me.

Alexander is a perfectly reasonable first name!
Macedonicus is because Alex comes originally from Macedonia

At least he chooses a name that makes sense, whereas you call yourself the
so-called.
What is that supposed to mean?

> Then, exactly TWENTY minutes later you post
> the above resignation in terms of a victim
> writing of DENIAL of your Citizenship.

As said above, this is the way Alex phrases things.
He is not saying he has been denied citizenship.


I have no more to say on this matter

Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia

If you have a problem with MY name tyake it up with me!
Yes it's Imperial, I am an Imperialist!

------------------------------------------------
Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
Materfamilias of the British gens Iulia Caesaria
etc, etc, etc

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Re: I ask..,
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 02:21:40 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: martedì, 09 maggio, 2000 12.57
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Re: I ask..,


> Salve Iadams,
>
> <<You miss the point. Of course your personal quarrel with Prometheus is
> not irrelevant to you -- it is clearly a matter of some passion to
> you.>>
>
> That is your opinion.
> I think a man able to say "his" countries' neighbours are "barbarians"
> and szstematicly to damn one nation and to glorify another is not only
> my personal business.
>
> <<Please don't try to use this forum or the government of Nova Roma as a
> means of carrying on a personal quarrel with another citizen.>>
>
> Why you post that to me but not to that one who started that issue.
>
> Vale
>
> Alexander I.C Probus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/6/_/61050/_/957866894/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/6/_/61050/_/957866894/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: I ask
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 04:21:32 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: 09 may 2000 14.58
Subject: [novaroma] Re: I ask



> OK my English is not good, is worse than yours.

Prometheus:

I never ever ever wrote a single word to insult or
even to complain about your knowledge of English.

The problem among us is not english, is a different
appreciation of freespeech and different myths or references.
Mine are Romanitas Veritas and Libertas.
In Romanitas I include also Humanitas
In Prometheus I find are included
Humanitas (he loved men even more than gods, so stole the fire to gods for
men)
Veritas (he didn't betray men or truth even when tortured)
Libertas (freedom even from religious dogma)

They are not even myth
The name of the myth of Veritas (independence even from gods


What you exactly want from me? Tell that openly
> please. You want to see me leaving - I will do that and you will have a
> free field for your dreams. Or not? Maybe you simply need an enemy -
> tell that openly please. Or you need to specify what topics we disagree
> with? So, try to specify and let us to talk about in a polite and
> cultivated manner or you will prefere to continue in your malicious
> attacks.

I accept to try to talk in a polite and cultivated matter.
I will apologize when I realize you talk with me in a more polite and
cultivated matter.
I admit in one specific instance to have hinted you didn't knew what you
were speaking about
I am very sorry for this, but, please could you kindly show me I was so much
wrong ?
I do admit such an hint does not usually help communication, but I felt
already lost,
I mean it is very difficult to communicate with you, I felt you on a
pedestal and I tried to call you down
among us mortals equally endowed of rights (but no more) and realizing that
the only pedestal which can raise you in a Forum of free men is a pile of
good books, and not monopoly of subjects East, an absolute nonsense. I was
so astounded by this self commenting pretence of your that I touched it only
marginally in my replies. I felt I would ridicule myself posing as a
freedom fighter, so I kept this chapter in which you were already
ridiculing yourself you more than I ever wanted to the minimum as being
already covered by the broad point of the right to free speech, (and not
only for me, but for everybody) Please, remember, freespeech means right to
dissent, not to agree always .


You have never posted me anything privatly - you prefere to
> dehonestate me publicly - that is your choice.

I don't feel any need to write you privately, sorry.
I find you lack consistency. Until now all you wanted was to silence me on
this mailing list.
I have nothing personal with or against you.

As for dehonestate, please believe me I don't do it, for many reasons,
also a very humble one.
But please, you too might try to be humble, and try to understand me, so
look on the dictionary at least for one word you use way TOO often.
Find a little more exactly what you want to say, so that I can understand
you better, and then try your chance again if in your conscience you find
it right.

Please, I am not joking, or trying to ridicule you
I am not so arrogant, I don't want to be impolite for the sake of being
impolite.
And please understand also that selfishly I try to avoid ridiculing myself:
As you are (just like me) a non native speaker of the english language and
as I know that almost all the non native speakers make mistakes more or
less, so how do you think I would spend time to write to criticize you on
such a field ?
Conversely I find absolutely proper to criticize eventual boisterous
historical or ideological unsubstantiated claims lightly or strongly
accordingly to how unsubstantiated they can look confronting them with my
modest and limited knowledge. Up to you to show me wrong.
You are welcome.



(so called) Marcus Prometheus

Trying to be part of the solution, not of the problem

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 840
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 02:04:13 +0300

----- Original Message -----
F-------- LegionXXIV <a h--------"/post/nova--------?p--------ctID=034056178009193116001195151189114012071048139" >legionXXIV@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: martedì, 09 maggio, 2000 20.15
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 840


> Gallio Velius Marsallas of Legion XXIV here.


>
> I purchased a nice Gallic-J
> Gallio / George




Excuse me, please

What is a Gallic - J ?

Thank you in advance if you can find time for my curiosity.

Compliments for your page.

M. Prometheus.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Re: I ask..,
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 02:30:36 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: hadji <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>

Subject: [novaroma]

Re: Re: I ask..,



Yes. But WHY sometime
YOU don't ask something
also to YOUR SELF ?

To your big self ?
Or at least so looks to me,
and apologies for my dirty mind.

(so called) M. Prometheus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Announcement
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 04:39:13 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: Augusti--------ulia Caesaria Noctur--------<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=091176219007018031015158190036129" >--------la@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: mercoledì, 10 maggio, 2000 2.16
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement





> you call yourself the so-called.
> What is that supposed to mean?

It is how he wrote about me in his very tolerant and liberal request of
expulsion


> I have no more to say on this matter
>
> Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
>
> If you have a problem with MY name tyake it up with me!
> Yes it's Imperial, I am an Imperialist!
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Augustina Iulia Caesaria Nocturnia
> Materfamilias of the British gens Iulia Caesaria
> etc, etc, etc


Your comments are welcome,
If you have time you could get a complete opinion reading the whole story.
I have no monopoly of truth.

Respectfully
M. Prometheus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Announcement
From:	"M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 05:05:29 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=219166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >c--------us622@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: mercoledì, 10 maggio, 2000 3.46
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement


> I'm afraid you've wasted your breath. He's unsubscribed himself from the
> list.
> Vale,
> Marcus Cassius Julianus




I confirm you are absolutely right,
I' m sure I wasted my breath in this and other matters, almost always.


Thanks for the advice, and compliments for your understanding.

All this said and all this notwithstanding I have two points.


1 ) Do I sound a fanatic if I think I owed all the answers to everybody
and to him too for truth sake ?
Of course it will be my truth, but I accept to confront it with
other's truths.


2) I tried to convince freely , I insist I never asked or supported any
expulsion.
Furthermore, ( if I am not wrong, but perhaps I am, I don't know for
sure),
I feel some contradiction in the last two messages he sent just at 20
minutes of distance,
and so perhaps he will reconsider.

MOST MOST humbly, I do hope he reconsiders A LOT of THINGS, and not just
one.
Do I am too harsh if I think he would be welcome reconsidering not only a
single thing ?

Respectfully
M. Prometheus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement
From:
Date:	Tue, 9 May 2000 23:28:46 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 5/9/0 12:29:33 PM, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=219166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >c--------us622@--------</--------; writes:

<< This "phenomenon" has got to be preventable. Maybe some folks from
non-English speaking countries are just too touchy and easily offended...
maybe we're just not tolerant enough with people that can't choose their
words carefully because they don't speak the language well. Can anyone think
of ways that such arguments could be "broken up" before they cause
irreparable damage? >>

A good way to start would be to look at each of these situations to see what,
if anything, they have in common. It would take some digging through
archives.

I'm afraid I haven't been here long enough to volunteer as I don't know who
or what I'd be looking for.

Iustinia Cassia

Subject:	Introduction...
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 05:41:30 -0000

Salve...

I have been a member of Nova Roma for some time but have never truly
taken any time to introduce myself. I have decided to take more time
and greater interest in this and have found this to be the way to
start. I do hope that I will be able to talk to more people in an
individual sort of a way. I certainly hope that I can become a
greater part of Nova Roma.

Ursus Sitheus Ragnos


<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------td>

Subject:	By the way
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 09:50:29 +0200

Salve me amici,

I just heard great news. The new Didius Falco novel is to be published
june the first :)))))
As far as I know it will be titled "Ode to a banker" and will deal with
the morder of a banker, surprise!!, who was also intrested in publishing
Falco´s poems.
I know it´s a bit off topic but I guess there are some Falco-Fans who
are glad to hear this.

Salve
Lucius Metellus





<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------td>

Subject:	East and West and this stuff
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 10:28:51 +0200

Salve ,

going to write this will not be the easiest task for me but I think I
could add some new aspects into discussion.
I don´t write very often to this list, usually I only post something
when I really have to say something new.
I also get tired of this thread but alas...

I will not start taking sides in this quarrel, who is right and who is
wrong, I only seek to provide some new aspects.

Some of you know that I am from Germany. Now that Germany is "reunited"
I have to make clear that I grew up in
West-Germany. But I know some East-Germans personally and thus I can
imagine what is up in there minds.
You have to imagine that all that you knew would change completely and
would be damned as wrong and inferior.
You as a people are classified as lazy, stupid and generally as the poor
relative from abroad who should be greatful that the rich cousin lets
himself down to take care of you.

Just imagine the US would be "united" with Canada. Washington D. C.
would be renamed, say, Cornwallis?
All your values would be considered obsolete, you would lose your job
because the guy from Canada is "better" than you are, your politicans
are replaced by secondrate ( or backbenchers) Canadians and your history
would be declared a series of irrelevant, wrong actions made by
dilletants.
Wether or not you liked or supported this system doesn´t matter, you
would simply feel like sh**.

Perhaps we can understand now that some people from the East are a
little bit "touchy" and perhaps we could be a little more considerate
towards them, even if we don´t see the problem?

I , myself, have very ambiguous feelings about the US, for example (
but also for Germany ;) ; and to say nothing about my feelings about
France, being an anglophile ex-French)
>From time to time I read an email and wanted to start the hottest
debate, but then I take a deep breathe ( or two) and reconsider. Perhaps
we all should do this and when we think someone is trying to insult us
we should try to be above such things.

Salve,

Lucius Metellus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Lingua Esperantica, Ido & Interlingua
From:	"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 15:44:42 YEKST

Salvete,


>From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=014130014161146028033082190" >bvm3@--------</a>
>Salvete Novoromani!
>
>I was asked for websites for some of the Latin-based planned
>international auxiliary languages. Here are three good ones
>for Esperanto, Ido and Interlingua respectively:
>
><a href="http://www.esperanto.net" target="_top" >http://www.esperanto.net</a>
>
><a href="http://members.aol.com/idolingua/index.html" target="_top" >http://members.aol.com/idolingua/index.html</a>
>
><a href="http://www.interlingua.com" target="_top" >http://www.interlingua.com</a>

Here's also a link to Latino Moderne/Modern Latin, a language based on
Interlingua, but a bit closer to Classical Latin:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3150/latinomodernecontents.html" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3150/latinomodernecontents.html</a>

The newest Neoroman (constructed) language is nevertheless Romanova at
<a href="http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm" target="_top" >http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm</a>

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
Civis et barbarvs Novae Romae
Propraetor Sarmatiae Provinciae

Libertas inaestimabilis res est

Vale(te) in pace

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 08:22:42 EDT

Salve Marcus Cassius,

I tried manfully to reads through Probus' posts to understand what he was
so adamant about. I am convinced that he hounded himself out of here. I
can find no substance in his complaints that would justify his vehemence.
I am sorry he left, but apparently he couldn't tolerate the normal give
and take in the Forum, for reasons peculiar to him.

Valte,
L. Sergius Aust.

On 5/9/00 12:20 PM <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=219166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >c--------us622@--------</--------; (<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=219166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >c--------us622@--------</--------;) wrote:

>In a message dated 5/9/00 5:32:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
><a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=180166080058082135130082190036" >hadji@--------</a> writes:
>
><< I would like to let you know that I have requested our Censors to remove
> me from the Citizen list and to deny my citizenship. >>
>
>Alexander Probus has indeed unsubscribed from the Nova Roma list, and is
>gone. Can anyone fill me in on what happened here? The arguments cited must
>have happened while I was away...
>
>Has anyone besides myself noticed that this has happened a few times now
>with
>folks that have joined NR from Eastern Europe? I rather think it is quite an
>honor to hear from folks from such areas, and it's proof that Nova Roma
>has a
>chance to really be something worldwide. It will be a real shame if we can't
>figure out how to deal with language/cultural barriers. To me, anyway, it
>seems like the minute that someone from Eastern Europe makes a statement
>they
>immediately offend three or four people, and end up getting hounded off the
>list and out of NR itself.
>
>This "phenomenon" has got to be preventable. Maybe some folks from
>non-English speaking countries are just too touchy and easily offended...
>maybe we're just not tolerant enough with people that can't choose their
>words carefully because they don't speak the language well. Can anyone think
>of ways that such arguments could be "broken up" before they cause
>irreparable damage?
>
>Vale,
>
>Marcus Cassius


certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 12:27:12 -0000

Salvete omnes,

oh... I just saw all this at www.egroups.com (I don't receive
individual emails from NR list today for an unknown reason;-)). I
have to say that it's all awfull. When will this end? People leaving
regularily for such reasons like personal quarrels, insults etc...
Just a little more of tolerance or at least of politeness...
Alexander Probus was (and certainly is) my best friend in NR... and
not only. I think NR, and her (Eastern-)European part will lack him
very much. I only hope that he'll be back. Exactly the same thing has
happend to me in January, so I know that I am talking about...

I'm very upset. I'll try to get him back here.

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
Civis et barbarvs Novae Romae
Propraetor Sarmatiae Provinciae

Libertas inaestimabilis res est

Vale(te) in pace


--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, hadji hadji@u... wrote:
> Salvete omness,
>
> I would like to let you know that I have requested our Censors to
remove
> me from the Citizen list and to deny my citizenship. I wish to all
of
> you to feel comfortably here discussing your common values. Be calm
> there would be no thread from me further - I am leaving that list
too.
> Congratulations to the winners - the wrong side is completly
defeated
> and there is no more danger for Roman Virtues from not educated and
> wrong minded barbarians.
> I would like to thank to that one of you who have emailed me
privatly
> with the request to explain my possition.
> I would like to thank very much to my Materfamilias Augustina Iulia
> Caesaria Nocturnia for her kind cares and words.
>
> Vale
>
> Alexander Hadjiivanov
> former Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonicus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement
From:	"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 12:41:08 -0000

Salvete,
>
> A good way to start would be to look at each of these situations to
see what,
> if anything, they have in common. It would take some digging
through
> archives.
>
> I'm afraid I haven't been here long enough to volunteer as I don't
know who
> or what I'd be looking for.
>
> Iustinia Cassia

Look for me for instance;-)))

AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
Civis et barbarvs Novae Romae
Propraetor Sarmatiae Provinciae

Libertas inaestimabilis res est

Vale(te) in pace

Subject:	Leaving Nova Roma
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 10:14:27 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete, Omnes;

Your comments are interesting and if I may offer a few points of
observation perhaps we could pursue this together.

In my brief experience with NR, I have seen several people leave whom I
have deeply regrettted (A. Probus was one), some have left and it was
too bad, but I was not stricken about it, and some have left and it was
a relief to see them go. Some have just disappeared into the fabric of
NR and they are not heard from any more. Let us begin to categorize
these groups on a very personal basis, since some of you have indicated
a reluctance to do so, due to your relative short involvement with NR.
These are my categories, feel free to substute something more suitable
as you wish.

Category 1-- Deeply Regret

The reasons I believe these people have left follow:-
-----They wanted something from Nova Roma which seemed reasonable to
them, but was withheld for any one of a variety of reasons. They
apparently did not understand, agree with, or percieve the necessity /
desirability of the withholding and finding that there was a large
silence from the bulk of the membership in that area, dispaired of
attaining thier goals or of understanding their failure to do so, in
this world and left.

------Those who were not clever enough or did not have the ability to
voice their real concerns. Remember that we have on this list those who
do not have English as a first language, those who have physical
disability affecting reading and composition, and we have some who are
highly educated and others who have little education. We also have
those who are from a totally different culture and who often do not
understand the nuances of what those who use English constantly mean by
thier comments.

------Those who at present are involved in large important projects and
who direct the activities of many other people, and those who work alone
or not at all. Those who are somewhat timid in their approach to others
and some who feel the need to bull the way to the front to be noticed.
There are those who are polite to a fault and there are those who do not
see the need for a compliment unless there is a sgnificant result
attained. There are those who beat a point home an belabor it until it
is completely shreeddeed and those who bringup a point quietly and
gently. All these people have either been here, are here now, or will
come to NR in the future.

Possible Solutions-----
--Be more concerned and supportive on an individual basis;
--Be more involved in contacting those Magistrates whose duties involve
the granting or review of these needs;
--Be more considerate, polite and downright nice to those whom you do
not know well. If you feel that a correction is in order, do not make
it with a hammer, make it with a reference and a gentle reminder. Truth
is a great goal, but if it is wielded like steam hammer, soon those
would-be recipients will be crushed.

Category 2---

-------These are individuals who have a very low threshold of insult or
pain. It appears to others that they are always wearing "a chip on
thier shoulder." Often these people lash out at former friends and at
others over items that most people would not address. Much of this kind
of behavior comes from frustration either a perception of being ignored,
or as a perception of having one's ideas cast aside because of neglect,
past injury or disinterest. Most believe that the "sqeaky wheel gets
the grease" and live thier lives according to that saying.

Solutions----Keep these people in the information stream. Acknowledge
problems that interfere with the consideration of thier ideas and
values--More work??? you bet, but the alternative is to have them
disrupt the onelist. cause hate and discontent and leave NR, because
they thnk that the collective "You" doesn't care. Special Treatment--I
suppose, but if you wish anyone to contribute to your designs must you
not accomodate them to some degree? This solution will take more effort
and more involvement, but there are those in NR who wish to find a place
to contribute, it is up to those in office and well known in NR to seek
them out and use them effectively.

Category 3-------

-----These are people who have an agenda other than NR. They have
proven such by words and actons. Their real agenda is somewhere to the
right and far beyond anything we in NR envision. These are people that
have either been officially disenfranchised or have left of their own
free will do to there disatisfaction with what NR stands for and it's
policies.

Solution-------
--Perhaps a mandatory waiting period for active membership;
--A stated agreement with the NR goals prior to the issue of a
citizenship;
--Perhaps a waiting period assigned temporarily to an established gens
before creating your own gens.

In closing my friends, these are only my ideas of categorizing the
problem. Nothing here is written in stone, and nothing here should be
considered to be solid policy. I put this before you in response to a
Senator's appeal for some thought on the subject, and a couple of
comments from Citizens. I am aware that many in NR are concerned about
this, and this is my personal view and offering to begin the discussion.
I am aware that many will disagree and I agree to disagree with you in
turn, so there is no necessity to get upset over what you see here.

I would like to ask that someone interested in this topic place this
first set of comments in a computer archive and then add comments to
that archive as they are generated, so as to collect the thoughts and
ideas of NR citizens who are concerned in this thread. Somewhere out
there is an idea or combination of ideas that will move toward the
soothing of this ulcer, and I know of no other way to obtain it.

Valete, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	What is a Gallic - J ? Do You Really Want to Know ?
From:	"LegionXXIV" <a h--------"/post/nova--------?p--------ctID=034056178009193116001195151189114012071048139" >legionXXIV@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 10:42:22 -0400

A Gallic-J one of many styles of iron legionary helmets.=20
It is an icon of the classic roman army helmet with eyebrow
ridges on the front scull, sculpted cheek guards and neck=20
guard and dates to the mid 1st century AD period.
The designation comes from H.R.Robinson in his book=20
"Armour of Imperial Rome", long out of print.=20

The helmet is shown, on the right, in photos on the=20
Legion XXIV website at=20
=20=20=20=20=20
<a href="http://www.legionxxiv.org/equipment/=20" target="_top" >http://www.legionxxiv.org/equipment/=20</a>

Another view shows the "J", on the right
in the photo at=20

<a href="http://www.legionxxiv.org/equip2enlarg/=20" target="_top" >http://www.legionxxiv.org/equip2enlarg/=20</a>

Hope this helps with your curiosity.
Thanks for your interest.

Gallio Velius Marsallas - Legion XXIV MA
Tribune Militaris - NovaRoma

----- Original Message -----
F-------- LegionXXIV <a h--------"/post/nova--------?p--------ctID=034056178009193116001195151189114012071048139" >legionXXIV@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: marted=EC, 09 maggio, 2000 20.15
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 840

> Gallio Velius Marsallas of Legion XXIV here.
>
> I purchased a nice Gallic-J
> Gallio / George

Excuse me, please

What is a Gallic - J ?

Thank you in advance if you can find time for my curiosity.

Compliments for your page.

M. Prometheus.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	United States
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 12:37:42 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Lucius Metellus;

I have read your post most carefully and with great interest, and you
are of course correct in your equation of the situation. Such was what
I and several other people tried to address with Alexander, that those
things were not important to us, rather he was important to us. In the
end, I believe he was overcome with shame, as he put it to me in a
personal letter, that he could not express his real feelings because of
his experiences and difficulty with English, and that he thought he had
caused conflict and could not explain such. I have often found that in
dealing with Americans those who have another lnguage will apologize for
not speaking English well. I tried to urge him that such was not
important, but I think he had already made the decision that such an
action was necessary for him. I am very sorry for it, but his choice
must be honored. I very much hope that he will rejoin us, but I was not
friend enough to be able to convince him of that.

In your message illustration you use the U.S. and Canada as conquered
and conquerors, and I respond that the American People have found
themselves in that situation at least three times in the past--Rev War,
War of 1812, and the American Civil War, and each time they fought the
attempt to subjugate them so fiercely and with so much determination,
that those who sought to overcome were finally discouraged. I am not
sure what would happen should a simlar attempt be made here today, but I
believe that myself and many of my friends and others like me would
either win our freedom or die in the attempt. It is my culture and my
nature, and it is the call that sounds to me from my counrty and my
family roots. That it would be hard I have no doubt, but I believe that
we would leave our mark. We are a cantankerous people, but on occasion
also a generous people, and those with whom I share my activities, don't
care much what language you use, what color you are, what religion you
follow. or what culture has molded your spirit, but we do demand
courtesy, and straight talk and hard work. There is a lot wrong with
America, but it is still a place that I can vote out a crooked
politician, thumb my nose at stupidity, walk into the church of my
choice, pick my friends and my pastimes, and decide my life work and my
education level. It is still a place that you are limited by your
efforts, and skills only, and it is a place that you have the freedom to
choose your workplace. I love to visit other lands and the people in
them to see how the world works, and I am always glad to come home
again.

I thank you for your observations, and your discussion. I also thank
all for allowing me to vent some things which I needed to say, as well.

Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Introduction...
From:	<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 12:44:49 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Ursus Ragnos;

Welcome to NR and the onelist. I hope that you will find sommething
here of interest. It is a container of many interesting topics and full
of great people. Feel free to stay, make friends and share in our
culture.

Vale, Respectfully
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Religio Romana mailing list
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 17:49:11 +0100

Salvete

In case some new citizens are interested on the discussion of the Religio
Romana in both practical and theoretical aspects, you can subscribe to the
Religio mailing list at:
<a href="http://www.egroups.com/group/ReligioRomana" target="_top" >http://www.egroups.com/group/ReligioRomana</a>
There you can meet curious, practitioners and priests of the Religio.

For those interested specifically on scholarly discussion of the Roman
Mithraic Mysteries:
<a href="http://www.egroups.com/group/mithras" target="_top" >http://www.egroups.com/group/mithras</a>

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

Subject:	Learning Languages....
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 17:57:38 -0000

Salve....

Perhaps this question was posted before and answered, but I must ask.
In many posts and responses I see a language I am not sure of, such a
salve, which I now know is hello. What language is this? Also,
where
is it that I may learn more about this language? Forgive my
ignorance, and hopefully someone may be able to assist.

Ursus Ragnos

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Learning Languages....
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 18:55:40 +0100

Salve Urse

It is Latin. Don't worry, for after reading a few postings you will catch
the rules =)

Vale (stay well)
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

-----Original Message-----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=070154192165056209247248242115114253071048139" >epeter4150@--------</--------; <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=070154192165056209247248242115114253071048139" >epeter4150@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Date: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:57 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Learning Languages....


>Salve....
>
>Perhaps this question was posted before and answered, but I must ask.
>In many posts and responses I see a language I am not sure of, such a
>salve, which I now know is hello. What language is this? Also,
>where
>is it that I may learn more about this language? Forgive my
>ignorance, and hopefully someone may be able to assist.
>
>Ursus Ragnos
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bids starting at $7 for thousands of products - uBid.com
><a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957981465/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957981465/</a>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Subject:	The communication problem
From:	"Maurice Lefebvre" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=219233091185056153036168000126229241039102131192183239161126172205142" >cornelius_scriptor@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 14:11:17 -0400

Salvete,

The problem we have in this list is not a language or cultural problem.
The problem is that many people here just "know they are right". When two
(or more) of theses people start arguing, they rapidly anchor themselves in
their opinion and try to convince the other. What is a fanatic? Someone who
won't change is opinion, and won't change the subject.
Another facet of this problem, is the "cultural attitude". It's not a
culture problem, it's an attitude problem. Most of the time, very
innocently, someone will make remarks that can sound real bad to others. An
example? Many remarks sound like the U.S. (or now English-speaking
countries, or even the western civilization)) are in the body of everything
and all the others just appendages. I know it's not what was meant! But
please admit it does sound like that sometimes.
Personnaly i'm not angry with that. I live in Québec (in Canada), I
speak French, I travel a lot, work with people from many very different
cultures, and I live close enough to the Americans not to be bothered
anymore. I'm not attacking anyone, I just want everyone who read the post
not to be bothered too much by theses attitudes (I used Americans as an
example, I could have taken anyone). And i'm talking to everyone whoever
might you be, wherever might you be from.
Everyone think from the position of his own's culture, we can't change
that, and it's a very good thing. Global communication is very recent, so
most of the people here didn't grew up in a REAL planet-wide multicultural
background. We all must understand that. I had the chance to travel a lot,
to live in many different cultures (and I mean LIVE), even so, I still make
comparisons.

So the problem is not related to language, or directly related to
culture. It's just an attitude problem, even when no harm is meant. In a
post, or in any discussion, before answering to something you don't agree
with, ask yourself: If I say (that), will he finally see the truth? If your
answer is "yes", just shut up. And adding IMHO (in my humble opinion) won't
change anything. I'm not saying we shouldn't have opinions, but we shouldn't
start with the idea that we have "the right one".
And if you don't think you're concerned with what I just said, maybe
you're the person who's the more concerned.

Valete,

Marcus Cornelius Scriptor

Subject:	Re: Learning Languages....
From:	Mariu--------mbria <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 13:42:30 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete omnes (Greetings, all)!

Scripsit Graecus (Graecus wrote):
> It is Latin. Don't worry, for after reading a few postings you will
> catch the rules =)

...to which I add that there is an *excellent* Latin chatting guide on
Claudia Lucentia Aprica's homepage, which is linked to from the site
for the Britannia Province. This in turn is accessible via the Nova
Roma 'Provinces' page, or you can click on the Province name under
'Magistrates'.

Should be enough to get you started!

In amicitia et fides (In friendship and faith),
***********************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria / Legio VI Victrix |>[SPQR]<|
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> |\=/|
Storyteller, Roleplayer Emeritus, ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Historical Re-Creationist, `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
and Citizen of Rome ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman...it's hard work, but _|_| / _/_| /`(
*somebody's* gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Introduction...
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 21:01:15 -0000

Salve, Ragnos!

I wish to echo what Audens Consul has said, and to invite you to drop
by the Forum Romanum chat room. Some of us call it the caupona or
the
taverna. Be patient. You will meet other Nova Romans -- eventually.
Feel free to ask questions, here and in the caupona.
We will do our best to answer them accurately. Eventually =({[;-)

Vale.
C. Aelius Ericius.

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Salve, Ursus Ragnos;
>
> Welcome to NR and the onelist. I hope that you will find sommething
> here of interest. It is a container of many interesting topics and
full
> of great people. Feel free to stay, make friends and share in our
> culture.
>
> Vale, Respectfully
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Learning Languages....
From:	"Jeffrey L. Graham" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045056047121127198187242109140244253188098030046209130" >--------reygraham@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 17:01:20 +0000

There are several good books available to teach yourself. The best one. i
think, is "Wheelock's Latin" (available from Amazon.com). be sure to get
the workbook that goes with it, tho. And whatever you do, Avoid "Teach
Yourself Latin" published by NTC. It requires way too much memorisation.

Q. gaufridus Canus.


On Date header was inserted by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net Marius Fimbria
<a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> write--------r> > Salvete omnes (Greetings, all)!
>
> Scripsit Graecus (Graecus wrote):
> > It is Latin. Don't worry, for after reading a few postings you
> will
> > catch the rules =)
>
> ...to which I add that there is an *excellent* Latin chatting guide
> on
> Claudia Lucentia Aprica's homepage, which is linked to from the site
>
> for the Britannia Province. This in turn is accessible via the Nova
>
> Roma 'Provinces' page, or you can click on the Province name under
> 'Magistrates'.
>
> Should be enough to get you started!
>
> In amicitia et fides (In friendship and faith),
> ***********************************************************
> Lucius Marius Fimbria / Legio VI Victrix |>[SPQR]<|
> <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a> |\=/|
> Storyteller, Roleplayer Emeritus, ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
> Historical Re-Creationist, `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
> and Citizen of Rome ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
> 'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
> bein' a Roman...it's hard work, but _|_| / _/_| /`(
> *somebody's* gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bids starting at $7 for thousands of products - uBid.com
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957984354/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957984354/</a>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Going, Going .... Gone
From:
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 14:35:16 -0700

Salvete Omnes...

I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone....I will be gone for anywhere
from 3-7 days at the hospital. Helena will keep everyone informed.

Vale!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Subject:	An opinion on communication in a foreign language
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166234009056153112037203168129208071" >danielov@--------</a>
Date:	Wed, 10 May 2000 23:31:56 -0000

As a non native english speaker, I know that expressing ideas and
thoughts in a foreign language are much harder to tell than using my
own language. In fact, sometimes I cannot tell them with the
precision I would like. So, often I must write a message within the
limitations of my knowledge. I think this is a common problem for
anyone learning and speaking any foreign language (unless you master
it). I consider it a point to be considered in any world-wide
communication. I want to express that I'm not talking about
attitudes, which they are completely apart from this. I hope nobody
will misunderstand me.

Curate ut valeatis et bona fortuna

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus