Subject: Re: [SenatusRomanus] Going, Going .... Gone
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:15:31 -0400 (EDT)
Salve, Sulla;

All the best, may the Gods of Rome smile upon you with good fortune. I
shall place you in my prayers as well, and may the Christain God extend
his powerful wing over you and keep you safe until your healing is
complete and you may return to us again.

Vale, Godspeed Your Return;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Introduction...
From: "M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:10:59 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=070154192165056209247248242115114253071048139" >epeter4150@--------</--------;
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: mercoledė, 10 maggio, 2000 8.41
Subject: [novaroma] Introduction...


> Salve...
>
> I have been a member of Nova Roma for some time but have never truly
> taken any time to introduce myself. I have decided to take more time
> and greater interest in this and have found this to be the way to
> start. I do hope that I will be able to talk to more people in an
> individual sort of a way. I certainly hope that I can become a
> greater part of Nova Roma.
>
> Ursus Sitheus Ragnos
>
>
> W E L C O M E in NovaRoma


Vale,
Marcus Prometheus
Italian living in Romania




Subject: Re: [novaroma] Lingua Esperantica, Ido & Interlingua
From: "M G" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=230212192112185190015225190036129" >--------co@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:13:39 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: mercoledė, 10 maggio, 2000 18.44
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Lingua Esperantica, Ido & Interlingua


Thank you very much for your precious answer.

Marcus Prometheus


> Salvete,
>
>
> >From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=014130014161146028033082190" >bvm3@--------</a>
> >Salvete Novoromani!
> >
> >I was asked for websites for some of the Latin-based planned
> >international auxiliary languages. Here are three good ones
> >for Esperanto, Ido and Interlingua respectively:
> >
> ><a href="http://www.esperanto.net" target="_top" >http://www.esperanto.net</a>
> >
> ><a href="http://members.aol.com/idolingua/index.html" target="_top" >http://members.aol.com/idolingua/index.html</a>
> >
> ><a href="http://www.interlingua.com" target="_top" >http://www.interlingua.com</a>
>
> Here's also a link to Latino Moderne/Modern Latin, a language based on
> Interlingua, but a bit closer to Classical Latin:
>
> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3150/latinomodernecontents.html" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3150/latinomodernecontents.html</a>
>
> The newest Neoroman (constructed) language is nevertheless Romanova at
> <a href="http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm" target="_top" >http://members.aol.com/dkcsac/myhomepage/romanova.htm</a>
>
> AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
> Civis et barbarvs Novae Romae
> Propraetor Sarmatiae Provinciae
>
> Libertas inaestimabilis res est
>
> Vale(te) in pace
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957951884/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957951884/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] The communication problem
From: "yquere" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=160000044056127198015181190036129" >yquere@--------&--------a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:22:11 +0200
Salvete Omnes

I do agree with what Marcus Cornelius Scriptor said at one hundred percents.
I think that neither NR, neither this mailing list is aimed at proving that
one culture is better than another. Most of us recognize themselves in the
Roman Virtues, that's the only thing that counts in my views.
As members of a worldwide and multicultural community, such as NR, we should
be able to contain and transcend our basic cultural differences. These
differences exist, none can denies it. But we are grown ups, aren't we ? I
think we should all accept these differences and admit that each one can
have one's own interpretation of life, of culture and even Roman way of life
for instance. In my opinion behaving this way could be a good way of
defining CIVILIZATION.

If you think of the ancient roman culture, Romans were integrating every new
culture without difficulties as soon as the newcomers were respecting basic
roman rules (which are the equivalent of the basic rules in NR). The
arguments we beheld on the mailing list during the last few days was
absolutely "un-roman" at all, according to me. I must admit I was surprised
and disappointed.

For example, one of the first problem that arose with the christians in the
ancient Rome, was that they do not accept to integrate the roman religio,
whereas the romans were quite ready to integrate Yavhe into the pantheon ?
That led to persecutions and systematic misunderstanding. If we really want
to defend Roman Virtues, let us not make the same mistakes again !

I heard some of us saying they had ambiguous feeling about the US, or
France, or wherever. OK ! and what's the point ? Is it an efficient way of
sharing experiences and knowledge ? I don't think so. Having ambiguous
feeling about another culture seams simply affirming a certain feeling of
being the only one who's right, isn't it ? Very tolerent views indeed !!!
Every culture has is good and bad sides in the eyes of a stranger, but is it
because we're different that we have the right to judge the other as a
lesser barbarian ? Maybe we should ask ourselves that if we're not able to
understand and to accept the others then we are the barbarians ! I
personnaly am quite fed up with all these arguments, sincerely.

Sorry, I've been getting angry. That's all I had to say.

Valete Omnes
I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio


----- Original Message -----
From: Maurice Lefebvre <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=219233091185056153036168000126229241039102131192183239161126172205142" >cornelius_scriptor@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:11 PM
Subject: [novaroma] The communication problem


> Salvete,
>
> The problem we have in this list is not a language or cultural
problem.
> The problem is that many people here just "know they are right". When two
> (or more) of theses people start arguing, they rapidly anchor themselves
in
> their opinion and try to convince the other. What is a fanatic? Someone
who
> won't change is opinion, and won't change the subject.
> Another facet of this problem, is the "cultural attitude". It's not a
> culture problem, it's an attitude problem. Most of the time, very
> innocently, someone will make remarks that can sound real bad to others.
An
> example? Many remarks sound like the U.S. (or now English-speaking
> countries, or even the western civilization)) are in the body of
everything
> and all the others just appendages. I know it's not what was meant! But
> please admit it does sound like that sometimes.
> Personnaly i'm not angry with that. I live in Québec (in Canada), I
> speak French, I travel a lot, work with people from many very different
> cultures, and I live close enough to the Americans not to be bothered
> anymore. I'm not attacking anyone, I just want everyone who read the post
> not to be bothered too much by theses attitudes (I used Americans as an
> example, I could have taken anyone). And i'm talking to everyone whoever
> might you be, wherever might you be from.
> Everyone think from the position of his own's culture, we can't change
> that, and it's a very good thing. Global communication is very recent, so
> most of the people here didn't grew up in a REAL planet-wide multicultural
> background. We all must understand that. I had the chance to travel a lot,
> to live in many different cultures (and I mean LIVE), even so, I still
make
> comparisons.
>
> So the problem is not related to language, or directly related to
> culture. It's just an attitude problem, even when no harm is meant. In a
> post, or in any discussion, before answering to something you don't agree
> with, ask yourself: If I say (that), will he finally see the truth? If
your
> answer is "yes", just shut up. And adding IMHO (in my humble opinion)
won't
> change anything. I'm not saying we shouldn't have opinions, but we
shouldn't
> start with the idea that we have "the right one".
> And if you don't think you're concerned with what I just said, maybe
> you're the person who's the more concerned.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cornelius Scriptor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bids starting at $7 for thousands of products - uBid.com
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957982015/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3027/6/_/61050/_/957982015/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone
From: "yquere" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=160000044056127198015181190036129" >yquere@--------&--------a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:27:09 +0200
I hope everything is allright with you, Lucci Cornelii Sulla.
If I may, I would dare to say "take care"

Vale
I. Querius Armoricus


----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; Senate <a href="mailto:SenatusRomanus@--------" >SenatusRomanus@--------</a>;
Cornelia <a href="mailto:Cornelia@--------" >Cornelia@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone


> Salvete Omnes...
>
> I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone....I will be gone for anywhere
> from 3-7 days at the hospital. Helena will keep everyone informed.
>
> Vale!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


Subject: Edictum censoriale de apparitore
From: "Gaius Marius Merullus" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:15:44 -0400
Salvete Omnes

Magno cum gaudio Titum Labienum Fortunatum designo scribam mei in munere
suffecti censoris adiuvandi causa
Nobis rogatoribus et postea in Senatu Fortunatus mihi diligentiam maximam et
mentem clarissimam demonstravit Opera prima Fortunati erunt adiumentum in
scribendo libero de censoriali labore et in facendo meliorem statu datorum
censorialium alborum Spero vos omnes benigne accepturos eum in hoc munus
esse

It is with great pleasure that I appoint T Labienus Fortunatus as scribe to
assist me in the office of censor suffectus. Fortunatus has demonstrated,
during our tenure as rogatores and later in the Senate, great diligence and
clarity of thought. His chief tasks will be to help in writing the censors
handbook and to improve the format of data in the censorial alba. I hope
that everyone here will welcome him in this new assignment.

Vivat Roma
Vivat Nova Roma

C Marius Merullus
Censor Suffectus


Subject: Re: [novaroma] An opinion on communication in a foreign language
From:
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:44:48 EDT
In a message dated 5/10/00 7:33:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166234009056153112037203168129208071" >danielov@--------</a> writes:

<< I know that expressing ideas and
thoughts in a foreign language are much harder to tell than using my
own language. >>

Not only that but there is a saying "The meaning was lost in the translation"
basically meaning that some ideas cannot be expressed from one language to
another.

I have some good news Diane was moved from Critical Care to a standard ward!

Vale!

Iulius Titinius Antonius

Subject: Re: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone
From:
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:00:02 -0700
Good luck Sulla, and the best of wishes!

Tacitus



Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:

> Salvete Omnes...
>
> I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone....I will be gone for anywhere
> from 3-7 days at the hospital. Helena will keep everyone informed.
>
> Vale!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Edictum censoriale de apparitore
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:54:33 -0400 (EDT)
Salve. T. Labienius Fortunatus;

Welcome and congratulations on your new appointment. I can think of no
greater recommendation that that of my colleague and friend Gaius Marius
Merrullus.

I hope that you will find your work satisfactory and rewarding and I
give you thanks for your willingness to serve the needs of Nova Roma in
a very special and practical way.

Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject: Archival count and other thoughts
From: Megas-Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:01:47 -0500
Avete Omnes;

Venator scripst.

12,714 posts since July of 1998 (as of 10:30 PM CST in the USA) to the Nova Roma list. Quite the
amazing amount of information contained therein.

My first post (#3 in the archive) was on 26 July 1998, three days after I became a Citizen. #1 was
by Lucius Equitius Cinncinatus and #2 was from Flavius Vedius Germanicus.

Personally, I am dismayed by the number of Cives from those days (just 4 months after the founding
of Nova Rome) who are no longer resident in the New City. I am dismayed by those I considered
better Romans than I who have left. Hel, I am dismayed by those I consider friends who have left.

I wish that all who see these words Good Fortune, Vigorous Health and Best of Luck.

in Amicus - Venator

Subject: Subject: [novaroma] The communication problem
From: Donald and Crystal Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:02:05 -0700
With regard to other cultures...

I grew up about 100 miles south of Quebec. My first professional baseball
game was at Jarry Park in Montreal. The Mets lost.

I learned French in high school, Spanish in college, and the army in its
infinite wisdom sent me to Germany. In general the only thing proper for
a victor to do is to be generous. The losers in any contest console
themselves with their valor, and the victor should never contradict.
That is why a victor oft seems to take on the characteristics of the
loser, such as the American Army's respect for the Wehrmacht some 55
years ago. Think how tough and virtuous the East Germans and Russians
must be to have attempted to live the Soviet Virtues for 50 and 80 odd
years respectively, with as little reward as they had. Who else could
make that abhorrent a system last so well for so long? Once they get
their feet in a market socialism as in modern Germany, or get beyond the
Kleptocracy of current Russia, they will show us something and we will
have to work like heck to keep up with them. We in America are quite
glad that Market Socialism is now the rage in Europe, for it will over
tax producers and transfer capital away from productive areas of the
European Economy, assuring American dominance until Europe catches on.

As for communism, that seems to me have much more in common with the
ancient Roman Virtues than American democratic capitalism. Consider what
Roman Virtue means: Submittal to the State as representative of the
people, lack of deference to the rights or will of any person as an
individual worthy in his own right, the path of honor being through
government service to the collective rather than commercial service to
individual buyers who have something of value to exchange, value for
value in a free marketplace. High taxes, public amusements, military
service abroad under political generals who will spend an ocean of blood
to not be embarrassed. Don't forget the similarity of Roman Corruption to
Soviet Corruption rather than the generally more fair American tradition
of jurisprudence with its independent and mostly apolitical judiciary. (
and yet we still have yet to get an accurate vote count from Cook County
Illinois!)

I ignored my political reservations about NR when I joined, hoping that
I could find some common ground with some of the people in the Religio.
And so I did, which consummated in my marriage to Crystal. I do
understand the disappointment that our eastern brothers have with us
Americans. We are rude, boisterous, and provincial. Rather like the
Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy compared to the austere Romans of
Constantinople. Yet it is possible for even an Ostrogoth to admire the
Grandeur that was Rome, while being unwilling to sacrifice the same
amount of personal freedom as our Roman predecessors.

My notions of virtue are more influenced by Ayn Rand, a Russian Emigrant
than by Cornelius Sulla, either antique or modern. My interest in NR
politics has always been low, and in its pseudo politicians even lower.
That is why I doubted that the Dictator ship of Germanicus could ever
lead to anything legitimate. And why I would still be overjoyed if the
folks of NR would prove me wrong despite the best efforts of their
"leaders". To communicate one must have something to say. To lead, you
must have somewhere to go.

That is why I left.

Don Meaker
ExPatriot Roman
Former Gaius Iunius Placidus

Subject: So leave already. {Meakers}
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:42:21 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/00 12:05:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a> writes:

<< That is why I left. >>

Really? Forgive me, but considering your continued, uninterrupted presence
here since this, your latest "departure", always telling everyone how you
have quit...it is as though you have never departed.

Consuls, I would like to suggest that the continued presence of the Meakers
is no longer appropriate. Since they have made a big public deal about their
leaving, and have nothing constructive to say about Nova Roma, they should
walk the walk instad of just talk the talk.

Gaius Lupinius Festus

Subject: Re: [novaroma] So leave already. {Meakers}
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
Salve, Festus;

I understand your thoughts on the matter, but I point out to you that
there is no restriction on posting to the onelist. If you are not a
citizen. I agree that such a phenomenon is an interesting one, and the
comments are facinating considering the author's background in NR and
the politics of NR.

NR politics has since it's beginning been driven by the people's
election with the exception of the Dictatorship period. In calling
attention to the shortcomings of the Magistrates of NR, the author also
makes a case for the ineffectivity of the voting citizens. I do not
happen to agree with that thesis, however, the gentleman has his right
to his belief.

It should be understood, however, by newer members that Mrs Meaker was
much caressed by the NR when I first joined, and she recieved many
loving solititations during that period. Mrs Meaker is still a friend
of mine, even though my work as a mediocre politition has not met Mr.
Meaker's needs or his expectations. We can but try within the
limitations of our abilities and time that is avvailable, but of course
that is only a poor excuse.

Yes Festus, I understand your frustration, but I ask that you try to
see, at least Mrs. Meaker, as she was in the days before her marriage.
She was as sweet and loving a person as you will wish to meet. I wonder
what happened????????

Vale, Rspectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject: Re: [novaroma] So leave already. {Meakers}
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:54:07 EDT
In a message dated 5/10/2000 9:43:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=226028211237082190172248203043129208071" >Lykaion1@--------</a> writes:

<< Consuls, I would like to suggest that the continued presence of the
Meakers
is no longer appropriate >>
Salve.
They have been warned.
Vale

Subject: Re: [novaroma] So leave already. {Meakers}
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:02:08 -0400 (EDT)
All Interested;

I believe I have committed an error. I may have sent a private message
to the onelist by mistake. I do hope no-one was offended.

MMA

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject: Re: [novaroma] So leave already. {Meakers}
From: <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166091165042237215056001163243012136219139046209" >darth_vilmur@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:56:08 GMT
okay,
i have been a member of this group for about a year now, and usually
only read other members e-mails. i interact as rarely as possible. is
it just me or has almost every one been sending divisive and negative
attacks against people and the list?
has this group degenerated so far?
should any of us really give a shi* any more?

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Subject: Re: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone
From: Matt-------- Stappert <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=158059101122035091033" >3s@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:20:14 +0200
Ave, Censor.

Best wishes. May Aesculap helb you.

C. Flavius Diocletianus
Citizen of Nova Roma

Lucius Cornelius Sulla schrieb:

> Salvete Omnes...
>
> I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone....I will be gone for anywhere
> from 3-7 days at the hospital. Helena will keep everyone informed.
>
> Vale!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------td>
Subject: Re: [novaroma] The communication problem
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:24:02 +0200


Salvete,

for I was the one who expressed ambiguous feelings, I thought it proper to
answer to Querius Amoricusī email.

Maybe my message came through as negative, but I consider having ambiguous
feelings as something positive.
It makes you think about what exactly makes you have these feelings. I have
ambiguous feelings about my country and think that stopps me from being a
"hurra patriot" (sorry, but I lack an english expression).
I like my country, I like France and I really like the US, but there are
things, traits that I donīt understand, that startle me.
But this is good, because it stopps me from being uncritical.
I hope that cleared it a bit, but I am always open to questions.



Valete
Lucius Metellus


P.S. Itīs never good to answer an email when one is angry, the next reply
might also be sent in anger and the next, etc.
In that way we risk making that thread as bad as some others lately


Subject: Re: Subject: [novaroma] The communication problem
From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=158059101122035091033" >3s@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:40:27 +0200
Ave.

For my opinion itīs not okay to compare ancient societies with modern ones.
To compare the roman society with the eastern europe communism is the same as
to compare apples with cherries.The ideological background of communism dates
back to the early industiral societies in Europe. It had no more historical
roots.

I think that the roman culture and society has most in common with the
amerian capitalism up to the late roman empire. Under Diocletian, the
politics changed the society to a more socialist one. His Edict about the
Prices and the installed hereditiy of professions is Socialism by the state.
But, of course, his politics reconstructed roman power and laid the roots for
the powerful roman empire under Constantin. It worked.

And, by the way, if you mean that something goes wrong, try to change it.

C. Flavius Diocletianusu
Citizen of Nova Roma

Donald and Crystal Meaker schrieb:

> With regard to other cultures...
>
> I grew up about 100 miles south of Quebec. My first professional baseball
> game was at Jarry Park in Montreal. The Mets lost.
>
> I learned French in high school, Spanish in college, and the army in its
> infinite wisdom sent me to Germany. In general the only thing proper for
> a victor to do is to be generous. The losers in any contest console
> themselves with their valor, and the victor should never contradict.
> That is why a victor oft seems to take on the characteristics of the
> loser, such as the American Army's respect for the Wehrmacht some 55
> years ago. Think how tough and virtuous the East Germans and Russians
> must be to have attempted to live the Soviet Virtues for 50 and 80 odd
> years respectively, with as little reward as they had. Who else could
> make that abhorrent a system last so well for so long? Once they get
> their feet in a market socialism as in modern Germany, or get beyond the
> Kleptocracy of current Russia, they will show us something and we will
> have to work like heck to keep up with them. We in America are quite
> glad that Market Socialism is now the rage in Europe, for it will over
> tax producers and transfer capital away from productive areas of the
> European Economy, assuring American dominance until Europe catches on.
>
> As for communism, that seems to me have much more in common with the
> ancient Roman Virtues than American democratic capitalism. Consider what
> Roman Virtue means: Submittal to the State as representative of the
> people, lack of deference to the rights or will of any person as an
> individual worthy in his own right, the path of honor being through
> government service to the collective rather than commercial service to
> individual buyers who have something of value to exchange, value for
> value in a free marketplace. High taxes, public amusements, military
> service abroad under political generals who will spend an ocean of blood
> to not be embarrassed. Don't forget the similarity of Roman Corruption to
> Soviet Corruption rather than the generally more fair American tradition
> of jurisprudence with its independent and mostly apolitical judiciary. (
> and yet we still have yet to get an accurate vote count from Cook County
> Illinois!)
>
> I ignored my political reservations about NR when I joined, hoping that
> I could find some common ground with some of the people in the Religio.
> And so I did, which consummated in my marriage to Crystal. I do
> understand the disappointment that our eastern brothers have with us
> Americans. We are rude, boisterous, and provincial. Rather like the
> Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy compared to the austere Romans of
> Constantinople. Yet it is possible for even an Ostrogoth to admire the
> Grandeur that was Rome, while being unwilling to sacrifice the same
> amount of personal freedom as our Roman predecessors.
>
> My notions of virtue are more influenced by Ayn Rand, a Russian Emigrant
> than by Cornelius Sulla, either antique or modern. My interest in NR
> politics has always been low, and in its pseudo politicians even lower.
> That is why I doubted that the Dictator ship of Germanicus could ever
> lead to anything legitimate. And why I would still be overjoyed if the
> folks of NR would prove me wrong despite the best efforts of their
> "leaders". To communicate one must have something to say. To lead, you
> must have somewhere to go.
>
> That is why I left.
>
> Don Meaker
> ExPatriot Roman
> Former Gaius Iunius Placidus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double your manufacturer's warranty on all computers,
> home appliances, and electronics AND win up to $500
> towards your purchase!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3749/6/_/61050/_/958017883/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3749/6/_/61050/_/958017883/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject: ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem V Idus Mai (May 11th)
From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:20:15 +0100
Salvete

This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action or
public business can take place.

Today is the second day of the Lemuria in honour of the Lemures. The Lemures
are the ghosts of wicked people or of those who did not receive the proper
rites after death. These are not received by the Gods of the Underworld and
as such are condemned to roam and to haunt the living. Today they come to
take from the living what his theirs by right.
The Lemuria are held on 3 consecutive odd numbered days: 9, 11 and 13 May.
It's rites are performed at home by the paterfamilias (family father). At
night, the paterfamilias gets up from bed and walks barefoot through the
house, making the "mano fico" gesture. He washes his hands with water
brought from a spring. He takes some black beans. He throws nine beans over
his shoulder without looking back, while saying for each bean: "Through
these beans I expiate myself and my family". He then performs a new ablution
washing the hands. He then asks the ghosts to go away by saying nine times:
"Manes of our ancestors, leave!". After this he looks back and the Lemures
are surely gone, for the rites were correctly accomplished and the dead have
taken what is their right.
Some say that those black beans are offered in place of real human lives,
offered by our ancestors in remote times. In fact, some Greek theologoi such
as the Pytagorean and the Orphic say that beans are charged with life.

The Vestals are preparing the mola salsa since May 7th and this will
continue until May 14th.

I remind you that Maius is the month of the old and the dead. Maia, the
Lares and the Manes and their mother (Mater Larum) are specially honoured.

Pax Deorum vobiscum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex






Subject: Threats against my Family
From: Donald and Crystal Meaker <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029056113163056209105098072248155208071048" >meakerfam@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:23:25 -0700
You people really need to make up your minds.


One minute I am being told I can stay on this PUBLIC list, as is my
RIGHT. The next I am being told to leave as if this is a private list.


Apparently no one noticed the Signature nor the way the email which has
gotten you all so upset. *I* (Crys) did not type that letter. My
husband did.


Audens says I have changed. Fabius sends us "warnings" from the Nova
Roma government that sound like some sort of a threat. What is next?
Armed guards in the night to threaten my children??? My daughter has
ALREADY been attacked by a Pontifex of Nova Roma. Most people here know
how I feel about my children. I do not take attacks on them lightly, it
does not matter if the attack is verbal, physical or cyber.


To Audens: I have NOT changed. I still love my children. I still
abhor politics. It is Nova Roma which has changed, which is the reason
both Dex and myself left. Nova Roma never did put ANY information on my
Sodalis on the website. It remains the ONLY place with information on
Ancient Roman Children. It had been my HOPE to continue to share that
information with and gather information from Nova Romans. I now know
that Nova Roma is not interested in ancient Roman children, nor even the
children of it's members. A "country" which ignores it's children has no
future, as the children ARE the future.


To Fabius: You were considered a friend. Once you became a politician,
you had no time for a friendship. I was to be distanced from. I was too
"controversial", or whatever.


To Festus: You have NO idea ANYTHING about me. I bore the first child
within Nova Roma (who meant nothing to this country nor did any of the
OTHER children borne to Nova Roman citizens). I began the ONLY website
DEDICATED to the children of ancient Rome. NEW Rome has no time for
children, which are my heart and life (not only MY children, but ALL
children). This government is not interested in anything that does not
have to do with History and in that regard only the historical figures of
interest. The rich and the powerful. Not the poor. Not the uneducated.
Not the children. Not the FUTURE.


The Nova Roma I joined WAS open to everyone. It has since become
anti-children, anti-family anti-Pagan, and, with the Edicta,
anti-trans-sexual. What is next? Like my attorney doesn't have enough
to do.


Crystal Meaker (I repeat CRYSTAL Meaker)

Subject: Re: [novaroma] Threats against my Family
From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:48:12 +0100
Salvete Don & Crys Meaker

Please, for the sake of the Gods and the dignitas of yours and your family,
leave Nova Roma in peace. I think that you need help which can only be
achieved with psychological treatment. I'm sure that neither the citizens of
Nova Roma nor the Senate nor the Collegium Pontificum feel competent to
provide you that help, though we wish the best for you and pray the Gods to
guide you and help you get out from such dark path.
Your postings only contribute to show to our citizens that you are not well
and to show them your selfishness. Before the people gets tired and start to
attribute all 'nefas' to your presence, to demand you to be exiled by force,
to lament the fact that you are the parents of such lovely children, to pray
to the Lemures to take you to the Underworld, I beg you to leave in peace.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus



Subject: Congratulations :)
From: "susan brett" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061158091009093031223225065148243223136058139046209" >scriba_forum@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:33:24 GMT
Salvete, Omnes:

I would like to publicly congratulate my brother in gens Cornelia, Drusus
Cornelius Claudius.

Yesterday he received the distinction of "History Scholar of the Year"
of Mt. San Jacinto Community College, Lake Elsinore, Calif.

Ave Claudius!!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone
From: "George VanDeWater" <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:45:33 -0600
Salve Sulla,

May the Gods bless and keep you safe. We will remember yoiu in our =
prayers.

Gaius Africanus Secundus


Subject: Re: The communication problem
From: "RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:36:19 -0400
Salvete C Flavi et alii

Just a quick note to point out that you have well illustrated another
communication problem: frame of reference, or lack of a common one.

You pointed out, quite accurately in my view, that modern societies are so
different from ancient ones that broad comparisons between the two are of
limited utility. But you went on to describe the reforms of Diocletian as
"socialist". That's not a bad description, as far as I'm concerned, but was
there any socialism in the world of Diocletian's time, or, is socialism,
like communism, an industrial-dependent construct?

I am not even sure that capitalism existed in any period of Roman history,
in fact, I tend to think that there was only a sort of primitive monetarism,
driven by increased volume of slave labor, that became less liberal over
time. Did anyone own stock in corporations that could be traded on a public
exchange? I don't think so (if I'm wrong, I look forward to learning about
a facet of Roman history of which I am now ignorant).

Anyway, our languages, circumstances and life experience vary pretty widely
here. In addition, NONE of us has a native language, circumstances or life
experience that would lend themselves to a more or less full understanding
of any aspect of any period of Roman culture. I believe that most of us are
people who are on different points of a continuum of study of some or other
aspects and periods. In light of this, we should be flexible in trying to
understand each other's questions and answers. Otherwise, there isn't much
point in participating in the forum -- and there is never any point, of
course, in posting a lengthy message in the forum about why there is no
point in posting messages in the forum :). But then, we already knew
that.....

So "study, study and study again".

Valete

C Marius Merullus
-
>For my opinion itīs not okay to compare ancient societies with modern ones.
>To compare the roman society with the eastern europe communism is the same
as
>to compare apples with cherries.The ideological background of communism
dates
>
>I think that the roman culture and society has most in common with the
>amerian capitalism up to the late roman empire. Under Diocletian, the
>politics changed the society to a more socialist one. His Edict about the



Subject: Re: List Problems & People Leaving
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:41:26 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/00 12:54:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166091165042237215056001163243012136219139046209" >darth_vilmur@--------</a> writes:

<< okay,
i have been a member of this group for about a year now, and usually
only read other members e-mails. i interact as rarely as possible. is
it just me or has almost every one been sending divisive and negative
attacks against people and the list?

Cassius:
If you were to read this list regularly, you would see that on the whole it
is fairly calm and civilized. Yes, occasionally troubles do flare up - but it
has been less so recently than in the past. This sort of thing happens on
EVERY list now and again. It really doesn't matter what a list is about,
people are people and disagreements happen. Especially through the computer
where things sound more serious because one can't 'moderate' one's tone
through voice inflection, or correct/clarify a statement instantly. And hey,
it could be worse. We could be having this kind of trouble while arguing over
things as vitally important as Star Trek episodes, or Pokemon.

The *real* problem here is that this list is currently without a moderator.
Nobody is in charge of informing new people of what's expected, or
occasionally post basic rules of etiquette. There is no one here to calm
things down if conversation is getting too rough... or review postings before
they go to the list (in extreme cases), or to simply tell people to take an
argument to private Email. Some of the recent problems might well have been
avoided if there had been a third party responsible for keeping things
reasonable.

Vilmur:
has this group degenerated so far?

Cassius:
We've actually been through rougher times than this. Having been on the list
since day one I'm pleased to say that there has been a great deal of
improvement overall. More good ideas get discussed, and we're much more a
"community" now than ever. When again a moderator is added to stop
difficulties before the escalate too much, this list will continue to be one
of the most reasonable ones out there.

Vilmur:
> should any of us really give a shi* any more?

Cassius:
Yes, simply because the alternative is far, far worse than anything that
could *possibly* happen here. Just three years ago there was in essence no
Roman community at all... just a few bookish geeks and nerds pining away for
an ideal that had been all but forgotten. Nova Roma has one *huge* advantage
over Roma Antiqua. It's alive. I'm just back from England, were we got to
spend 10 days visiting ancient Roman sites. They were fascinating, inspiring,
and quite dead. I couldn't *wait* to get back to a place where the spark of
Romanitas is still a living thing - even with all the problems that go with
it.

Nova Roma is never going to be problem free. Citizens will always have
disagreements. People will find us and gain Citizenship... and others will go
away. Often times the folks that go end up returning after time has sorted
things out on both sides of the fence. Nothing is certain! None of these
things should be a surprise to us. They happened in the ancient world, and
they still happen today.

This place really isn't so different from the rest of things in life. If you
want to see nothing but what's negative, and focus on nothing but problems,
that's what your experience will be about. If you focus instead on the good
things that we do have, and enjoy being around others who share a love for
things Roman, your experience will on the whole positive.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Senator


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Congratulations :)
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:23:46 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/2000 6:34:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061158091009093031223225065148243223136058139046209" >scriba_forum@--------</a> writes:

<< Yesterday he received the distinction of "History Scholar of the Year"
of Mt. San Jacinto Community College, Lake Elsinore, Calif.
>>
Salvete!
At last some good news. This is one of the many reasons Nova Roma was
founded, was to encourage the study of ancient Rome. Drusus Cornelius has
done so with distinction. Ave Cornelius!
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject: Re: [novaroma] Congratulations :)
From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:27:40 +0100
Salve Drusus Cornelius

I join Consul Fabius congratulating you for your distinction!
It is like this that Nova Roma can win battles nowadays. It is not with an
army, it's with work, study!

Ave Cornelius! May your triumph be an example to all of us.

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex, Senator, Praetor, Propraetor Lusitaniae, civis


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Congratulations :)
From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
Salve, Drusus Cornelius;

Well, this is a distincton indeed!! Please let me join the others in
recognizing your excellent work and your excellent effort in attaining
such an award.

Let me also invite you to join us in Nova Roma. I would be pleased to
offer you a position as my historical advisor, should you be interested.
Perhaps you would also be interested in writing an article or
contributing one already written to our Eagle, which is always looking
for histroical information of the Roman Period.

In closing, it is a real pleasure for me to recognize a young person for
special achievement over and above the norm expected of students. I
extend to you the "Well Done" of my past experience and my heartfelt
congratulations.

Respectfully;
Marcus Municious Audens
Consul et Senator

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Congratulations :)
From: "yquere" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=160000044056127198015181190036129" >yquere@--------&--------a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:47:49 +0200
Salve

Congratulations from Gens Queria

Vale
I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio

----- Original Message -----
From: susan brett <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061158091009093031223225065148243223136058139046209" >scriba_forum@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:NovaRoma@--------" >NovaRoma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:33 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Congratulations :)


> Salvete, Omnes:
>
> I would like to publicly congratulate my brother in gens Cornelia, Drusus
> Cornelius Claudius.
>
> Yesterday he received the distinction of "History Scholar of the Year"
> of Mt. San Jacinto Community College, Lake Elsinore, Calif.
>
> Ave Claudius!!
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double your manufacturer's warranty on all computers,
> home appliances, and electronics AND win up to $500
> towards your purchase!
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/3749/6/_/61050/_/958052029/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/3749/6/_/61050/_/958052029/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] The communication problem
From: "yquere" &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=160000044056127198015181190036129" >yquere@--------&--------a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:53:33 +0200
Salve Lucii Metteli

I ambiguously interpeted your message... forgive me. Everything is clearer
now. Thanks for your answer, and besides I do agree with you.

Vale
Ianus Querius Armoricus




----- Original Message -----
From: &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=180056219163082131036067066024166165018048139046" &g--------ckifiknow@--------&l--------&g--------r> To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] The communication problem


>
>
> Salvete,
>
> for I was the one who expressed ambiguous feelings, I thought it proper to
> answer to Querius Amoricusī email.
>
> Maybe my message came through as negative, but I consider having ambiguous
> feelings as something positive.
> It makes you think about what exactly makes you have these feelings. I
have
> ambiguous feelings about my country and think that stopps me from being a
> "hurra patriot" (sorry, but I lack an english expression).
> I like my country, I like France and I really like the US, but there are
> things, traits that I donīt understand, that startle me.
> But this is good, because it stopps me from being uncritical.
> I hope that cleared it a bit, but I am always open to questions.
>
>
>
> Valete
> Lucius Metellus
>
>
> P.S. Itīs never good to answer an email when one is angry, the next reply
> might also be sent in anger and the next, etc.
> In that way we risk making that thread as bad as some others
lately
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Win $500 at freewarranty.com!
> Click Here:
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4031/6/_/61050/_/958033534/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4031/6/_/61050/_/958033534/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone
From: "Robert Williamson" <a href="/post/no--------ma?protectID=194233250056127134015037190036129" >robert@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:01:25 -0400
Salvé Sulla: I hope everything goes well for you. Best wishes!
Valé: Appius Marcellus Cato
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>; Senate <a href="mailto:SenatusRomanus@--------" >SenatusRomanus@--------</a>;
Cornelia <a href="mailto:Cornelia@--------" >Cornelia@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Going, Going .... Gone


> Salvete Omnes...
>
> I just wanted to say goodbye to everyone....I will be gone for anywhere
> from 3-7 days at the hospital. Helena will keep everyone informed.
>
> Vale!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> <a href="http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/" target="_top" >http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/6/_/61050/_/957995879/</a>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>


Subject: Re: [novaroma] An opinion on communication in a foreign language
From: "Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166234009056153112037203168129208071" >danielov@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:51:57 -0000
Ave optime amice:
I agree with you. Nice saying.
Cura ut valeas
L. Pompeius Octavianus

--- In <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, StarWreck@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/10/00 7:33:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">> danielov@-------- writes:
>
> << I know that expressing ideas and
> thoughts in a foreign language are much harder to tell than using
my
> own language. >>
>
> Not only that but there is a saying "The meaning was lost in the
translation"
> basically meaning that some ideas cannot be expressed from one
language to
> another.
>
> I have some good news Diane was moved from Critical Care to a
standard ward!
>
> Vale!
>
> Iulius Titinius Antonius


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:12:52 +0100
Salutem!

Belated congratulations to Gaius Marius Merullus on his elevation to the
office of Censor...

> In agreement with my colleague, I am processing citizenship applications
> through the end of June. It means that I'll have the unfortunate
> responsibility of removing those cives who resign (may there be no more
who
> do so!) during that time.
>
> My policy is going to be to wait nine days from the time that the civis
> resigns before I actually touch the person's data in the censorial alba.
It
> is my hope that people will thus have sufficient time to think their
> requested resignation over, and be comfortable with their decision.

Respondeo: this is most laudable, and Ericius is to be thanked for having
first made the suggestion.
Would it be too much to hope for that BOTH Censors, for consistency, adopted
such a policy? Or indeed, that it be written into the Constitution? Sulla
has lately been very briskly striking cives off the rolls, even quicker than
the edicta he issues which provoke such resignations.

Valete bene,

N. Moravius Vado.



Subject: Ancient times fascination
From: "Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166234009056153112037203168129208071" >danielov@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:35:16 -0000
Today at RomanOutpost( <a href="http://www.egroups.com/group/RomanOutpost" target="_top" >http://www.egroups.com/group/RomanOutpost</a> ) ,
I posted a message talking about how ancient times fascinates me.
Those who wish to read it please feel free to do it. Thank you.
Curate ut valeatis et bonam fortunam.

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus


Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Announcement
From:
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:19:44 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/2000 3:17:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123056234112159192112061175246231253136100139046209" >gens_moravia@--------</a> writes:

<< Sulla
has lately been very briskly striking cives off the rolls, even quicker than
the edicta he issues which provoke such resignations. >>
Salve!
No, he has not. He only removed citizens after they requested it twice.
As consul I wrote many of these citizens requesting them to stay.
Their reasons for leaving were varied. And after they requested twice to be
removed, only then did he do so.
Be sure of your facts. This is one of the problems with the list. Think
before you post. The first part of your post was helpful, and no doubt the
Senate will take it under advisement. The second part was not helpful at
all.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

Subject: Sulla's Condition
From: Helena <a href="/post/novaro--------rotectID=165158192237078153036181001245114223071048139" >oceanlilly@--------</a>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:32:49 -0400 (EDT)
I am relieved to inform the Senate and People of Rome that
Sulla's surgery was a success and his condition is stable.
He is still in a lot of pain, groggy and incoherent but...
the overall prognosis is good.

I will post again tomorrow.

-Helena
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