Subject:	[novaroma] The Gladiator Soundtrack
From:	StarWreck@--------
Date:	Thu, 25 May 2000 21:26:31 EDT

Salvete Gladiator Fans!

I just purchased the last copy of The Gladiator Soundtrack at my local
Warehouse Music (They had it hidden!), it was sold out at Borders, Target,
and Wal-Mart, I'm guessing that its selling pretty well. The soundtrack is
great! The only complaint I have about it is that you can't tell when it
moves onto the next track because all the music fits so well together!

Valete,

Iulius Titinius

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Subject:	[novaroma] Books on the Religio
From:	Maurice Lefebvre <cornelius_scriptor@-------->
Date:	Thu, 25 May 2000 21:43:05 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete

A few days ago, someone asked for book suggestions
on the Roman period and the Religio. Since i'm in the
process of packing my bookshelves (I learned tonight
that i'll will be moving in another town in two
days...), I tought I could give a few suggestions
based on the books I have at home.
Most of theses books are in French, but translations
might be available.

Manuals:

The first thing to read when you begin to be serious
about the Roman culture and civilization are school
manual made for university-level students. Only in
theses manual you'll be able to find comprehensive
information AND complete footnotes AND an extensive,
often commented, bibliography AND an introduction to
the most useful tools in Roman studies, like the great
collections, the specialised encyclopedias, the best
periodical publications, and other stuff like the CIL
(latin inscriptions)and the CAV (catalog of pottery in
museums).
So I greatly recommend M.CHRISTOL, C.NONY "Rome et
son Empire" Hachette Supérieur, 1990-1995 ISBN
2-01-016009-6. I found this manual to be the most
complete and useful, with loads of maps, diagrams,
explanations, and a bibliography for every chapter. A
great job. All the other titles in this collection (I
own the one on Greece, and ordered the one on
Near-Orient and Egypt)

On the Religio:

I first recommend the very nice, easy to approach,
but still very complete R.TURCAN "Rome et ses dieux".
It will gives you a good approach on the subject.
R.SCHEID "Religion et Piété à Rome" is a little more
advanced, some kind of second step.
D.FASCIANO "Dieu chez les Païens" is a manual that
covers the concepts of mythos, deus and numen. A must
for our priests :)
J.BAYET "Histoire politique et psychologique de la
religion romaine". Serious stuff.
While reading, always refer to a GOOD dictionnary on
Roman mythology, like P.GRIMAL "Dictionnaire de la
mythology" (on graeco-roman mythology, but covers
accuratly the Roman Mythology)
==Stay away from Edith Hamilton!!!=== She covers
very well the Greek myths but she seems to me to be a
complete incompetent on anything Roman.
Now, if you are interested in the early Religio, its
origin and its links with other indo-european
religions and myths, G.DUMÉZIL " Archaic Roman
Religion" and "Mythes et Épopée I, II, and III".
There are also a buch a very good monographies:
R.TURCAN "Les cultes orientaux dans le monde romain"
H. Le BONNIEC "Le Culte de Cérès à Rome, des
origines à la fin de la République"
R.SCHILLING "La Religion romaine de Vénus depuis les
origines jusqu'au temps d'Auguste"
M.Le GLAY "La Religion Romaine"
J.GAGÉ "Apollon romain, essai sur le culte d'Apollon
et le développement du ritus graecus à Rome, des
origines à Auguste"
D.FASCIANO, P.SEGUIN "Les flamines et leurs Dieux"
D.FASCIANO, K.CASTOR "La trifonction indo-européenne
dans l'Énéide"
And so much more I could go on all night.

Reading the classical authors is always a pleasure.
Here's a small selection. I'm not sure of the English
titles and names, so i'll just give the latin ones.
AUGUSTINUS "De ciuitate Dei" A must.
AULUS GELLIUS "Noctes Atticae"
CICERO "De diuinatione" "De natura deorum"
MACROBIUS "Saturnalia"
OVIDIUS "Fasti" "Methamorphoseon"
SENECA "Naturales quaestiones"

At last, the references books (don't even think
about buying them!):
C.DARENBERG, E.SAGLIO,E.POTTIER "Dictionnaire des
antiquités grecques et romaines" in 5 volumes.
PAULY, WISSOWA, KROLL "Real-Encyclopädie der
klassichen Altertumswissenshaft" 34 volumes and 16
supplements. I believe there's an English translation.
AAM.Van Der HEYDEN, HH.SCULLARD "Atlas of the
Classical World" A very nice historical atlas.
CB.AVERY "The New Century Classical Handbook" Very
useful for all the names you'll encounter.

Well, that's enough for a start. I could go on for
hours. Maybe next time i'll hit another subject on the
Roman culture. If you have questions, feel free to
ask.

Valete

M. Cornelius Scriptor

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Subject:	[novaroma] Like the Energizer Bunny...
From:	"Lucius Marius Fimbria" <legion6@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 05:01:54 -0000

...we just keep growing, and *growing*, and GROWING!!

We have reached our two-hundredth subscriber to the NovaRoma List.

WOO-HOO!!!

(I now return to my regular programming.)

-- Marius Fimbria (who does *not* run the place)


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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] *cringe* Gladiator
From:	cacc <cacc72@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 04:44:16 -0700 (PDT)

What was that white powder used to calm the "new"
emperor's head ache?...

--- Scott Cozad <scott@--------> wrote:
> I thought it was quite good. Any inaccuracies
> aside I think it portrayed a
> very human character forced into very extraordrnary
> circumtances. I was
> really moved by the end and I usually dont get moved
> by movies. I was quite
> impressed.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>
>
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] *cringe* Gladiator
From:	Piscinus@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 08:20:54 EDT

Slave Scott
Most likely candidate? papavera rhoeas. By Commodius' time the Romans
would likely have been aware of opium, from p. somniferum. But they had more
experience with papvera rhoeas from which they made a calming potion.
Records mention its use mainly for easing the pangs of love. A powder from
p.rhoeas can be made from the resin gathered up in the same manner as is done
to collect opium. It is mildly calming, the dosage could be increased
relatively safely, enough to put someone asleep? I have never tried it in
such amounts to know. But from the way they were pouring it into his wine,
by the cyathus-full, it is my guess that they were implying p. rhoeas.
Another candidate hat was available was mandrake. To have been a white
powder though they would have to have taken a further step in processing it
that I have never read about them performing. Of mandrake, steeped in wine,
Pliny cautions that a middling dosage is a single cyathus (1 1/2 Tbls). The
method of taking it, and similar drugs, was not by imbibing however. Rather,
mandrake in wine would be heated and th efumes inhaled. (Nat. Hist. XXV. 94)
There were other tropane containing plants, such as belladonna, which had
long been in use. These were probably the most potent drugs known and widely
used at the time.
Rather than giving the emperor something to ingest, especially untested,
they probably would have instead applied topically an herb steeped in wine to
his forehead. One possible candidate here would be convallaria.
I would be most curious about anyone else's ideas on this topic.
Vale
Gn. Hernicius Piscinus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Books on the Religio
From:	Piscinus@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 10:15:02 EDT

Salve Cornelius Scriptor
I have an interest in the Romans' use of herbs. From an Italian heritage,
I was raised with the herbal remedies of streghieri. I've read Pliny, Galen,
some of the Greeks, the usual sources. Any suggestions on other sources?
Vale
Gn. Hernicius Piscinus

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Subject:	[novaroma] "Seezer"
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 14:29:12 EDT

I just thought about it, but did you notice in Gladiator they didn't
pronounce Caesar correctly? Still was "Seezer" instead of "Kaeser".

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "Seezer"
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 13:56:49 -0500 (CDT)

On Fri, 26 May 2000 exitil@-------- wrote:

> I just thought about it, but did you notice in Gladiator they didn't
> pronounce Caesar correctly? Still was "Seezer" instead of "Kaeser".

They also had a character named Lew-shuss -- equally annoying.

(Perhaps that's how Maximus recognized the boy -- he knew him by his
non-standard pronunciation!)

By now, my meatspace friends have learned that if they say "Seezer" while
I'm around, the "Kaiser" lecture will inevitably follow.

-Octavius

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Seezer
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 13:58:55 US/Central

Salvete.

> I just thought about it, but did you notice in Gladiator they didn't
> pronounce Caesar correctly?  Still was "Seezer" instead of "Kaeser".

I caught that immediately (along with loo-silla, loo-shus, and others). Just
put it on the long, long list of things that could have been better in what
was, still, an incredibly enjoyable movie. (The sight of all those legionaries
advancing was awesome, and the Flavian Amphitheatre was truly done justice.
And the city... Wow!)

BTW, I was awfully tempted to start a "Most Embarassing Outfit Lucilla Wore"
contest, but that corsetted thing she was in at the end was so horrific that
it'd obviously be the winner.

Valete,
T Labienus Fortunatus



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "Seezer"
From:	StarWreck@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 15:07:44 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/00 2:59:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, haase@--------
writes:

<< > I just thought about it, but did you notice in Gladiator they didn't
> pronounce Caesar correctly? Still was "Seezer" instead of "Kaeser".

They also had a character named Lew-shuss -- equally annoying.
>>
We must not forget that Gladiator was fictional, and that the entire movie
was in English (It'll be translated into other languages sooner or later),
and in English "Seezer" and "Lew-shuss" are the correct pronounciations.

Maybe we can get the movie studio to translate it into Latin (Whooo!!) with
the Latin pronounciations of the names while they're translating the movies
into French, Spanish, German, ect...

Vale

Iulius Titinius
Cogito ergo sum!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Seezer
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 14:08:07 -0500 (CDT)

>(The sight of all those legionaries
>advancing was awesome, and the Flavian Amphitheatre was truly done justice.

Would the Colossus of Nero have been visible in 180 AD? I didn't see it,
and I think it was still intact by then.

The characters referred to the Ampitheatre as the "Colosseum", several
times -- but didn't this name come much later?

I was disappointed in how badly history was distorted regarding the
reign and death of Commodus. Still, this movie is worth owning on
DVD, just for the city scenes.

-Octavius

--
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Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
Microsoft delenda est!
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Seezer
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 14:21:08 US/Central

Salve Marce Octavi.

> Would the Colossus of Nero have been visible in 180 AD?  I didn't see it,
> and I think it was still intact by then. 

That's a good question. I hadn't even thought of that.

> The characters referred to the Ampitheatre as the "Colosseum", several
> times -- but didn't this name come much later?

Yes, it did. That bugged me too, but not as much as Lucilla's wardrobe. Also,
someday they'll make a movie about Rome that doesn't feature an effeminate and
incestuous emperor, but probably not in my lifetime.

> I was disappointed in how badly history was distorted regarding the
> reign and death of Commodus.

Agreed. Fortunately, I had plenty of forewarning, so I wasn't so upset by it
as to lose my suspension of disbelief.

Vale,
T Labienus Fortunatus



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Subject:	[novaroma] A question of devices
From:	"Decius Aucelius Sebastianus" <Decius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 14:34:35 -0500

Salve, Omnes,

Would a heraldric device be completely anachronistic (I think that is the
word) for a Roman gens to have (such as a family crest) if not, are there
any examples of such a device that I may look at?

Gracia,
D. Aucelius Sebastianus


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Seezer
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 15:30:09 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/2000 12:22:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

<< That's a good question. I hadn't even thought of that. >>
No, It was melted down during Domitian's reign according to Dio's History

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Introduction to the Religio Romana
From:	Piscinus@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 19:37:15 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Antonio Grilo" <amg@c...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> For those interested, here is an online introduction to the Religio
Romana.
> I have doubts about some parts, but I think it is good in general,
despite
> being written by a Reverend.
> http://members.aol.com/hlabadjr/RELIGIO.HTM
>
> Valete
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex

Salvete Quirites

This is a horridly inaccurate website, beginning with its presumption
that anything in the myths of the Imperial Age should reveal anything
on the origins of Rome or of the religio romana. The basic concepts
of the religio romana are formed from those Italic tribes, the
Pallantine Latins and Quirillian Sabines, that later joined to form
the city. Much is said about Etruscan "influence" and too much
emphasis is placed on Greek "influence" in the forming of a "Graeco-
Ionic" mythos for Rome. But if any of that were true at the
beginning of Rome and its ante-AUC institutions it would still imply
an underlying religio viteliana more Sabine than Etruscan.

Valete
Gn. Hernicius Piscinus


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Introduction to the Religio Romana
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 20:25:25 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Piscinus@a... wrote:
> > For those interested, > > being written by a Reverend.
> > http://members.aol.com/hlabadjr/RELIGIO.HTM
> >
> > Valete Antonius Gryllus Graecus Pontifex
>
Salvete Quirites
>
> This is a horridly inaccurate website, beginning with its
presumption
> that anything in the myths of the Imperial Age should reveal
anything
> on the origins of Rome or of the religio romana. The basic
concepts
> of the religio romana are formed from those Italic tribes, the
> Pallantine Latins and Quirillian Sabines, that later joined to form
> the city. Much is said about Etruscan "influence" and too much
> emphasis is placed on Greek "influence" in the forming of a "Graeco-
> Ionic" mythos for Rome. But if any of that were true at the
> beginning of Rome and its ante-AUC institutions it would still
imply
> an underlying religio viteliana more Sabine than Etruscan.
>
> Valete, Gn. Hernicius Piscinus

I wholeheartedly agree with your stance concerning Greek and
Etruscan "influence"; however, I don't completely agree that the
subject website is "horridly inaccurate". Do you mean the whole thing
or just parts? If so, which parts?

Valete, Lucius Equitius




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Seezer
From:	"StormWolf" <blakmice@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 15:29:12 -0000

>Yes, it did. That bugged me too, but not as much as Lucilla's wardrobe.
Also,
>someday they'll make a movie about Rome that doesn't feature an effeminate
and
>incestuous emperor, but probably not in my lifetime.


Well for the first bit of the movie the emperor was Marcus Aurelius... for
the first bit....

L Vatinius


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] "Seezer"
From:	"JP" <jpp@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 14:20:34 -0700

Salvete,

This is somewhat unrelated, but in the movie "the 13th warrior" there is
a scene where the characters speak latin extensively. They try Greek, but
the vikings don't understand it, but they do understand latin. If you turn
the subtitles on, all the Latin is represented as [speaking greek to man]
and even [. . . more greek]. Someone needs to beat those boys.

S. Troicus Ductor

----------
>From: StarWreck@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] "Seezer"
>Date: Fri, May 26, 2000, 12:07 PM
>

> In a message dated 5/26/00 2:59:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, haase@--------
> writes:
>
> << > I just thought about it, but did you notice in Gladiator they didn't
> > pronounce Caesar correctly? Still was "Seezer" instead of "Kaeser".
>
> They also had a character named Lew-shuss -- equally annoying.
> >>
> We must not forget that Gladiator was fictional, and that the entire movie
> was in English (It'll be translated into other languages sooner or later),
> and in English "Seezer" and "Lew-shuss" are the correct pronounciations.
>
> Maybe we can get the movie studio to translate it into Latin (Whooo!!) with
> the Latin pronounciations of the names while they're translating the movies
> into French, Spanish, German, ect...
>
> Vale
>
> Iulius Titinius
> Cogito ergo sum!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/6/_/61050/_/959368072/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Gladiator Soundtrack
From:	"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 16:46:41 MDT

Salve,

Very Lucky... I cannot find a copy of the Gladiator Sountrack anywhere near
where I live. I have to wait a few weeks until the next shipment comes in.

Marcus Darius Ursus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Gladiator Soundtrack
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 26 May 2000 19:35:32 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/00 5:47:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
marcus_darius@-------- writes:

> Salve,
>
> Very Lucky... I cannot find a copy of the Gladiator Sountrack anywhere
near
> where I live. I have to wait a few weeks until the next shipment comes in.
>
> Marcus Darius Ursus

Check out www.musicmatch.com for an MP3 player and then go to:
www.napster.com
search for "Gladiator" and you'll get hundreds of MP3 recordings of the
gladiator soundtrack

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