| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Birth rites and related stuff |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:14:41 +0100 |
|
Salve Patricia
>Great heavens! It sounds like you need your own priest working full-
>time just to have a baby!
This was not performed by a priest. This is part of the family cult.
>I expect, however, that not all of these
>customs were followed for every birth, and it's wonderful to have
>them
>all listed in one place.
Of course not every deity was invoked in practice. They were invoked
according to context or need. This is a listing of the powers that can be
invoked when divine help is needed. However, the rituals I've described
(tables prepared for the Gods and friends before birth, etc) are likely to
have been the rule.
>We noticed a similar phenomenon when researching Roman weddings:
>There
>were so many customs, some of them conflicting, that it took the help
>of a couple of good scholarly books to figure out which ones were
>most
>usual.
Exactly
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Deities Who preside over sexual relations |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:32:31 +0100 |
|
Salvete
This is also an addendum to the birth rites, a part I have ommitted. Now,
for the curious, next time you have sex, remind the following (attn: this
only applies for heterosexual couples, no discrimination being intended):
- Jugatinus presides to the union between man and woman.
- Cinxia and Virginensies expose the waist of the woman.
- Subigus gives the woman to the man.
- Prema commands the pressure of the Penis during penetration.
- Inuus (or Tutunus or Mutunus) and Pertunda put an end to virginity.
- Ianus, God of the passages, opens the way to the semen, which is provided
by Saturnus.
- Liber helps the ejaculation.
Ok. Another information for women:
- Iuno and Mena assure the menstrual flux.
Pax Deorum vobiscum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] EJMS - New: Inscriptions of the Mithraeum of Sta. Prisca |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:52:54 +0100 |
|
Salvete
Excerpts from Vermaseren's book on the Mithraeum of Sta. Prisca are now
available on the EJMS. Go to:
http://www2.uhu.es/EJMS/outofprint.htm
This is worth reading not only for the researcher of Mithraism but also for
other fans of Roman Religion, as it includes prayers to Tellus and other
deities. Some pages are missing but I am striving to get them.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Clarification re Roman Days |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:05:22 -0000 |
|
It has come to my attention that I inadvertently
gave offense in my
description of one of the personages who so
brilliantly fed the re-
enactors. Fiona is the greatly honored co-preparer
of the feast, and
is
not anyone's slave. My apologies to her and to
Merlinia for
misrepresenting things.
While I'm clarifying things, just because I posted
in a thread on
birth
customs does NOT mean that I'm contemplating
motherhood! Sorry,
Iustinia...
Patricia C
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN: Edict from Curator Araneae->Appointment of Gallio Velius Marsallas as Scribus |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:20:44 +0100 |
|
I hereby officially appoint Gallio Velius Marsallas as my Scribus to help
facilitate the work on the website of Nova Roma. I would also like to
publicly manifest my recognition for the work that Gallio Velius Marsallas
has been doing to keep the Tabularium updated.
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Curator Araneae
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
"Cornelius Scriptor" <cornelius_scriptor@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:23:57 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
I know I will disapoint many of you but, Big News, Carthage wasn't
salted. It's a 19th century myth. Sorry.
In fact the first account of "salting" was, if I remember well, in
the very end of Roman history, in the Orient, and the Romans were the
victims of this mostly symbolic gesture.
Too many myths still plague the studies of ancient cultures, and
theses myths are often presented as truths to students. I only learn
the truth on that while I was working in Carthage, and even there you
will be able to find indication boards mentionning the salting "over
all the fields around Carthage". No archaeological trace of salting
was ever found anywhere in Carthage.
Well, that was just a little piece of information.
Valete,
Cornelius Scriptor
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Salting of Carthage |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:51:53 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Cornelius Scriptor;
It is generally accepted practice here on Nova Roma Onelist to provide
references to statements which allude to new discoveries and the repeal
of ancient "accepted" activities.
For my part, although I have no "stake" in the myth of salting, it is
hard for me to see how a "one-time" salting of the fields around
Carthage would be detected in the present day. In 2000+ years I would
think that all traces would have been carried away. I know that
repeated irrigation with highly salted water as in the lands irrigated
by the Colorado River here in the U.S, results in a saline "cake" being
established beneath the surface of the ground, and "deep plowing" is
required to break up this "Cake" for the continued land use. However, I
do not see how a one-time salting could be determined either positively
or negatively at this late date.
I have not visited Carthage nor have I studied extensively the
destruction of the city by Roman Forces, but the "salting" episode
always seemed to me to reflect the reasonable attitude of a victorius
Roman Host over a long-time and bitter enemy, particularly in the light
of the reported complete destruction of the city. My present-day visits
to the Northern Coast of Africa in the pursuit of U.S. Naval affairs
showed me that while precipitation is not frequent, it is neither
non-existant.
I am willing to be convinced otherwise, of course, as I am here in Nova
Roma as a student of Roman Military History, but I need some concrete
references to assist me in this possible change of venue.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Birth rites and related stuff |
| From: |
"Lucius" <vergil@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:14:28 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
This is an interesting page for 'Birth rites and related stuff '...
http://famromo.wiccan.net/pregger.htm
> They speak of birth information on the main list. They would rather not
> mention that the information is easially obtained @
> http://famromo.wiccan.net/ . That is a damn shame.
All personalities aside the Sodalis Familiaris website is also a wonderful
resource for family related information.
Valete, L Equitius
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:31:29 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete,
> I know I will disapoint many of you but, Big
> News, Carthage wasn't
> salted. It's a 19th century myth. Sorry. >>
Just to play "Devil's Advocate", in the book
"Hannibal An African Hero" by William J. Jacobs;
he claims the following. "Cato, on an inspection
tour, ordered that all remaining buildings be
leveled to the ground and put to the torch. The
fire is said to have burned for 17 days; a layer
of rubble remains today. Then the land was
plowed and sown with salt."
Perhaps, just perhaps, this was done as a
"symbolic gesture" as you said in your e-mail.
If this were done, and done only once, of course
there would be no archaeological evidence.
Oh, BTW, Jacobs uses Livy and Polybius as his
primary sources.
Correus Appius Iulianus
Trained in Classical Archaeology
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Birth rites and related stuff |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:42:56 +0100 |
|
Salvete
In fact I did not consult that site. My data was taken from R. Turcan's
"Rome et ses dieux".
So, I'm not ashamed of having posted that information and not having
referred that site, which I suppose (because of the words employed and the
attack they make) belongs to the Meakers.
On the other hand I appreciate that Pontifex Cincinnatus has informed you
about that site.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius <vergil@-------->
To: Nova Roma <novaroma@-------->
Date: Sexta-feira, 16 de Junho de 2000 19:13
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Birth rites and related stuff
>Salvete,
>
>This is an interesting page for 'Birth rites and related stuff '...
>http://famromo.wiccan.net/pregger.htm
>
>> They speak of birth information on the main list. They would rather not
>> mention that the information is easially obtained @
>> http://famromo.wiccan.net/ . That is a damn shame.
>
>All personalities aside the Sodalis Familiaris website is also a wonderful
>resource for family related information.
>
>Valete, L Equitius
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
"C Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:15:23 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes
I'm taking what each side adds to this thread....with a grain of salt!
Valete
C Marius Merullus
>
>> I know I will disapoint many of you but, Big
>> News, Carthage wasn't
>> salted. It's a 19th century myth. Sorry. >>
>
>Just to play "Devil's Advocate", in the book
>"Hannibal An African Hero" by William J. Jacobs;
>he claims the following. "Cato, on an inspection
>tour, ordered that all remaining buildings be
>leveled to the ground and put to the torch. The
>fire is said to have burned for 17 days; a layer
>of rubble remains today. Then the land was
>plowed and sown with salt."
>
>Perhaps, just perhaps, this was done as a
>"symbolic gesture" as you said in your e-mail.
>If this were done, and done only once, of course
>there would be no archaeological evidence.
>
>Oh, BTW, Jacobs uses Livy and Polybius as his
>primary sources.
>
>Correus Appius Iulianus
>Trained in Classical Archaeology
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:21:56 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve!
So am I! LOL LOL LOL
Valete
Correus Appius Iulianus
--- C Marius Merullus <c_marius_m@-------->
wrote:
> Salvete Omnes
>
> I'm taking what each side adds to this
> thread....with a grain of salt!
>
> Valete
>
> C Marius Merullus
>
>
> >
> >> I know I will disapoint many of you but, Big
> >> News, Carthage wasn't
> >> salted. It's a 19th century myth. Sorry. >>
> >
> >Just to play "Devil's Advocate", in the book
> >"Hannibal An African Hero" by William J.
> Jacobs;
> >he claims the following. "Cato, on an
> inspection
> >tour, ordered that all remaining buildings be
> >leveled to the ground and put to the torch.
> The
> >fire is said to have burned for 17 days; a
> layer
> >of rubble remains today. Then the land was
> >plowed and sown with salt."
> >
> >Perhaps, just perhaps, this was done as a
> >"symbolic gesture" as you said in your e-mail.
>
> >If this were done, and done only once, of
> course
> >there would be no archaeological evidence.
> >
> >Oh, BTW, Jacobs uses Livy and Polybius as his
> >primary sources.
> >
> >Correus Appius Iulianus
> >Trained in Classical Archaeology
> >
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
StarWreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:26:36 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/16/00 3:18:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
c_marius_m@-------- writes:
<< with a grain of salt! >>
CUM GRANO SALIS!!!
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Carthage |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:35:04 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete Omes;
Your puns are terrible!!! But--------rather RIGHT ON!!!!!!!! LOL:-)
LOL:-) LOL:-)
Valete, With Humor
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Palatine walls |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:09:40 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Correus <correus@y...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> > I know I will disapoint many of you but, Big
> > News, Carthage wasn't
> > salted. It's a 19th century myth. Sorry. >>
>
> Perhaps, just perhaps, this was done as a
> "symbolic gesture" as you said in your e-mail.
> If this were done, and done only once, of course
> there would be no archaeological evidence.
>
> Oh, BTW, Jacobs uses Livy and Polybius as his
> primary sources.
>
> Correus Appius Iulianus
> Trained in Classical Archaeology
>
Salvete Quirites
I think the point was missed here. It is not what actually did or
did not happen at Carthage that concerns us here. The tale of the
salting of Carthage is part of a ritual of the unfounding of that
city, and therefor even in the ancient report of this, it was purely
a symbolic gesture. Still, even though in reverse, this is the only
documentary evidence we have of the kinds of rituals that were
performed when making a pomerium wall. The Cippus Avellanus that I
referred to speaks of another ritual, similar to the annual
Ambarvalia, that is performed at such a pomerium, but does not shed
any light on the ritual specifically used in founding a pomerium or
in founding a city, as Regulus was referring to.
Also, let me emphasize that this wall on the Palatine is a very new
discovery. There is as yet no evidence associated with the wall that
even allows a reasoned speculation of what it represents. There are
no professional papers, no analysis of the material collected has
even begun. Thus far there has only been a local report made that
such a wall has been discovered. Regulus was able to pass on this
news to us only because he lives in Rome.
Valete
Piscinus
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Salting of Carthage |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:42:55 +0100 |
|
Salvete!
>From Aletheia Moravia:
It is possible that a detailed survey of stratified plant and insect remains
might reveal a radical change at a level corresponding to the sack of the
city, which in turn MIGHT indicate possible salination. Having said that,
archaeo-ecology is a very new discipline and I doubt if much work has been
done on a site of this nature.
>From Vado:
Carthago was not, I believe, finally destroyed until 146 BCE. Thirty years
or so later, the Gracchi founded a Roman colonia on the site of the old city
(not to be confused with the Julio-Augustan Colonia Carthago). Whether 30
years would be sufficient time for any widespread salting to leach out of
the soil I don't know, but the poison-gas-polluted, high-explosive-ravaged
farmland of northeastern France and Belgium (much of which resembled the
surface of the moon when the Great War ended in 1918), was recovered to
productive agricultural use in far less time than that.
Respecte,
Vado & Aletheia.
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Vado Incommunicado |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:46:29 +0100 |
|
Popularibus salutem
Owing to a recent death in the family, a disaster-emergency-contingency-planning exercise at work this coming weekend, followed by my uncle's funeral and a pre-planned short vacation thereafter, Aletheia and I will be completely out of it for a few days. We'll need the rest.
Bene valete,
Vado.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Announcement. |
| From: |
"Jennifer Harris" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:27:29 -0000 |
|
Salve citizens of Nova Roma,
I will be honest, a few small glitches did occur. But guess what!!
It's here my poetry list has been created. For those who would like
to subscribe go to ForTheMuses@--------, yes I know strange name
I first typed in Roman Poetry but I experienced technical
difficulties. Anyway I'm going to quit babbling seems like lately
thats all I've been doing on here. But I look forward to reading alot
of poetry soon.
Vale
The Impish
Aeternia Draconia
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