| Subject: |
[novaroma] patri/matrilineal |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:35:59 -0000 |
|
> I suppose that rites could still vary for the birth of sons or
daughters.
> Is Nova Roma going to be a patrilineal, matrilineal, or other
society?
I don't think we can apply either of those terms, since our "lineage"
at this point consists of our gentes, which are voluntarily created
and joined.
Children of Citizens are welcome to join when they are of age, and
there are no restrictions requiring them to join the gens of their
mother or father.
Patricia Cassia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: patri/matrilineal |
| From: |
"Gaius Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:09:09 -0000 |
|
Salvete Cassia et alii
Certainly, you have accurately summed up our present condition.
What the future holds is less certain. The growth of NR's population
may someday be dominated by births, especially if we are successful
in building up local activities and real communities.
I suppose that, until we reach that state, which will probably not be
in our lifetime anyway, my question is unanswerable. How d'ya like
that :(?
Actually, the lineage may be defined even before births outstrip
online citizenship applications. Some trend may develop as patres
and matres decide the issue of succession, which we all have to face
since we are not immortal.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
patient, but not that patient
--- In novaroma@--------, "pjane@j... " <pjane@j...> wrote:
>
> I don't think we can apply either of those terms, since
our "lineage"
> at this point consists of our gentes, which are voluntarily created
> and joined.
>
> Children of Citizens are welcome to join when they are of age, and
> there are no restrictions requiring them to join the gens of their
> mother or father.
>
> Patricia Cassia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:44:49 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes
Tonite, well this morning, I have participated in a discussion in the NR
chatroom regarding the origion of the term, "Conscript Fathers." This
of course is the term that is used to address the Senate of both Ancient
Rome and in Nova Roma. Well, between conversations between Piscinus,
Marcus Attilius Regulus, and myself we discussed some theories but my
knowledge is extremely limited in this area. So, I am hoping that some
of you folks might be able to shed some light in this matter. :) Any
opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Iulia66198@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue Jun 20 11:05:47 2000 |
|
Salvete!
As a newbie to the NR list, I'm going to stick my neck out here with an idea that may be *too* simplistic, lol. I hope nobody minds. ;-)
In a message dated Tue, 20 Jun 2000 9:36:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> writes:
<< Salvete Omnes
Tonite, well this morning, I have participated in a discussion in the NR
chatroom regarding the origion of the term, "Conscript Fathers." This
of course is the term that is used to address the Senate of both Ancient
Rome and in Nova Roma. Well, between conversations between Piscinus,
Marcus Attilius Regulus, and myself we discussed some theories but my
knowledge is extremely limited in this area. So, I am hoping that some
of you folks might be able to shed some light in this matter. :) Any
opinions would be greatly appreciated.>>
When I look up the definition for "conscript," the word that comes closest in my mind to fitting what we're talking about here is "select." Some of the meanings for "select" are as follows: best, elect, appoint, designate, ordain. Thus, we could think of Senators as representative of the best of our society, or as our elected or designated 'fathers' in a sense - those who would watch over and act in the best interests of those who have appointed them.
Just a thought to maybe get the discussion rolling. :)
Iulia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XII Kalendas Quinctilis (June 20th) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:44:29 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.
Today is the aniversary of the Tample of Summanus near the Circus Maximus,
which was dedicated in 278 BCE during the war with Pyrrhus. Summanus is an
Etruscan deity admitted to the Roman pantheon, Who retained the thunderbolt,
which as you know is an attribute of Iuppiter. Acording to the Etruscans,
the thunderbolts were distributed to nine different deities. While Iuppiter
is responsible for the hurling of thunderbolts during day, Summanus is
responsible for hurling at night. Two black wethers (castrated male sheep)
are offered to Summanus, and cakes in the shape of wheels are also
sacrificed.
I also remind that Iunius is the month of Iuno, month of the young
(iuuenes).
Pax Deorum vobiscum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:01:02 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/20/2000 6:36:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
alexious@-------- writes:
<< "Conscript Fathers." >>
Salve Lucius Cornelius
Livy claims that the term "Patre conscripti " came about when plebians
entered the senate (cica 330 BCE). Up till then it was "Patre augusti". I'm
in the editing bay so I don't have these quotes handy. I'll look them up
when I get home. Interesting point. When I first joined Nova Roma our
senate were all patricians. So I always addressed them as "August Fathers."
Vale
Quintus Fabius
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] very ancient religions |
| From: |
"M G" <fresco@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:03:42 +0300 |
|
I forward parts of 2 long posts about ancient
goddesses gods & creation myths
from TIED (Indo European studies list)
also about Castor Pollux & Romulus Remus
It's a long post, sorry, if not interested DELETE.
SALVETE Marcus Prometheus
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
. . . . . . . .
Glen:
> Marija Gambutas makes connections between the Goddess and the later IE
> IndoEuropean) mythology. She basically blaims war and pestilence on the
> patriarchal (non-gylanic) IndoEuropeans
> ( and therefore all men are inheirantly evil. :) )
> I would like to take a less feministic approach and say that the IE are in
> fact not the main originators of their mythology afterall. Rather,I
suspect
> the belief system is mostly inspired by the Semitish who were already
using
> a hybridized belief system of the monotheistic Goddess combined with
> African polytheistic values.
John:
"African polytheism" so early is hard to demonstrate.
Even in early Egypt, it seems that the chief divinity until the coming of
the falcon people (the hypothetical "Dynastic Race")
was a goddess, portrayed iconographically with upraised arms.
It seems that this Goddess later split into a number of separate
manifestations
Neith (the protectoress warrior goddess) in Sais
Nut (the sky)
Hathor (who made a compromise with the Falcon people
by accepting the falcon (Hor) into her name)
Auset (the Throne) cognate with Astarte in Syria.
Auset was known to the Greeks as Isis.
Glen:
> The Goddess mythology basically goes as follows. There is only the Goddess
> which created the world and everything in it. She lives in everything -
the
> sky, the waters and the land. As such, she is represented in various
forms,
> but primarily the bird (sky), the serpent (waters) and the bull (land).
> So, the Semitish may have been worshipping the Goddess as creator but at
> the same time, preserving the spirits or gods that they brought with them
from
> Palestine.
John:
It was not just the Semitish who did so Glen.
It seems to have been a key factor of the first Caucasian speaking farmers.
Catal Huyuk is a classic site, showing clear connections between the
iconography here and the goddess images of the upper Paleolithic
(Gravetians) which stretched from Spain to the trans Ural region.
Glen:
>Apparently, the southernmost Natufian has this thing with
> skulls and ancestor worship.
John:
This only came relatively late in the Natufian sequence. It attracted
a great deal of attention, however, due to the artistic sophistication
of the lime covered skulls, with inlaid cowrie eyes.
Glen:
> If I read correctly, it appears that the bodies are buried in a
dismembered-
> like fashion, almost as though they were afraid that their ancestors
would
> come back to haunt them. Perhaps, they originally viewed ancestors as the
> mediators to the gods, worshipping them for a better life and to protect
them > from harm, whilst making sure that they stayed in the underworld
where they
> belong (ie: return of the living zombies, yikes!).
John:
The Underword as the "land of the zombies" is found from Sumeria to ancient
Greece. Only with the idea of the Classical Elyssian fields did a more
pleasant view of the underword spread.
Glen:
> The Semitish would have brought this African style belief with them.
John:
Sorry Glen - Natufians have no connections back into Africa at such a time.
The Qadan (13,000-9,000 BCE) and the Isnan (9,000-4,500BCE) cultures, the
Natufians contemporaries in NE Africa show no pre-Natufian connections at
all. They are pure Saharan cultures having connections with Capsian.
These are almost undoubtably Afro-Asiatic.
Glen:
>They also certainly adopted the native Goddess belief of creation -
> you know: In the Beginning, there was darkness and only
> the Goddess (as a bird, aka Nyx/Yahweh) who laid an egg;
> the upper shell became the sky and the lower
> shell the land; there's a great tree that holds up the sky
> (aka Yggdrasil/Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad);
> don't forget the duelling twins with one of them founding mankind
> (aka the Horse Twins Castor and Pollux, or should I say, Cain and Abel),
John:
There is also the underlying myth in Semitic
of the Goddess as the watery depths.
She was the serpentine Tehom in Hebrew, Tiamat in Akkadian.
Taimat mingled salt from fresh water.
The first act of creation, coming from the body of Goddess Taimat herself
was the the separation of salt from fresh waters.
This led to the birth of Anu (Sky home of fresh rain)
and Ki (Earth home of the salt water oceans).
The Sumerian name Ki travelled westwards to become the Ge of the
Pelasgians (combined with IE aia=grandmother) to make Gaia,
The oldest of the Greek Gods (See Cyril's essay on Gaia).
Semitic El comes from the Sumerian Ellil, or Enlil = Lord Air,
the child born of the union of the Earth with the Sky.
But the air could not hold up the vault of heaven,
and Taimat grew tired of the noise and disturbance of the other Anunaki
(Anu and Ki = Gods and Goddesses). [=Cielo e terra]
She wished to destroy the creation, but was resisted by the gods.
Enlil agreed to save the gods if they would install him as the king of
heaven. They agreed (thus establishing Male Patriarchy over the earlier
mother
goddesses), and he slew Tiamat's husband (known to the Syrians as
Lawtan, and to the Hebrews as Leviathan), before dispatching the
Goddess herself, constructing the arch of the sky out of her ribs.
This myth that the world was created by the male gods slaying the
snake Goddess, was found in the Hittites, amongst the Greeks (Apollo
slew Python - (Gaia in another form), Zeus slew Typhon, Yahweh slew
Leviathan. The idea of the world as made from the body of a slain
divinity also shows up in Norse mythology (Ymir), who was cognate
with the Iranian Jamashah and the Hindu Yama.
Tehom -Tiamat also shows up as the Greek Oceanus and as the Norse Midgard
Serpent, who holds the world together, so these myths travelled a long way.
Glen:
> The two mythologies would have merged into a Eurafrican mix so that the
> Creator Goddess (rather than the ancestors) became the mediator to
> the other gods.
> In fact, since she was creator, obviously she would be an "ancestor" too.
John:
Eurafrican Glen? I think you are dreaming here.
Glen:
>Hence, the connection. Therefore, gods like *`ATtaru (Venus) and
> *Hadadu (Thunder) would exist side by side with the worshipped Goddess,
but > the Goddess still may have represented the entire pantheon as a whole
and a
> mediator to the other gods.
John:
Hadad as a thunder god is relatively late.
Ishtar (Venus) shows up as Astarte in Syria, Ashtoreth in Israel, Auset in
Egypt, Esther amongst the Persians, and hence into the bible and as a modern
name. She is very early, but her association with the Semitic Innana seems
to have occurred principally during the reign of Sargon of Akkad, and his
daughter Enheduanna.
Glen:
> It would also appear that *Hadadu (thunder god with horns and axe), or
> according to the early IndoEuropeans, *Dye:us, merged with the Goddess,
> producing *Dye:us Pxte:r "Lightning Father". Why? Because both of them
were
> associated with the bull. I guess that would be the reason why the word
> *dyeus which would have originally meant "lightning" came to be the word
for
> "god" in general, since *Dye:us, as the embodiment of the Goddess would
> pervade in everything and be the one and only god (at least, for a while).
> This may be the reason why Zeus was suckled by the wolf (being the Goddess
> in disguise and hence, his mother, lending validation to his worship).
John:
Zeus suckled by a wolf?
Hardly, he was suckled by a goat Amalthea, who fostered him, and hid him
from the wrath of his father Chronos, who swallowed all his other children.
Glen:
> There is also *`ATtaru (Ishtar or Venus) which we can easily connect with
> the IE word *xste:r "star" since she was represented as such.
> Venus is the brightest planet in the sky, you know.
> Like all other Semitish goddesses,
> she would be intrinsically associated with the Creator Goddess too.
>
> There's more, it would appear that the _Semitic_ peoples were also later
> influenced by the Goddess (evidenced as well in the archaeology with venus
> figurines eventually strewn about in Palestine) and hence we have the
> thoroughly pagan Bible with all the elements that are attributed to the
> original Goddess religion with a smattering of African voodoo for good
> measure. In fact, there's even evidence of a slight southward cultural
> migration from Syria later on. Perhaps some Semitish went back south as
the
> Hattic were spreading.
John:
African voodoo? Glen, please! Voodoo as a religion was the product of the
Slave centuries in coastal West Africa (from about 1400 CE onwards.
We are here talking at least 3,000 BCE.
This sounds like another of your famous time travel scenarios Glen ;-)
You asked how I'd wriggle out of this.
Firstly there are no African elements in Natufian
Secondly I don't believe in time travel.
Hope this helps . ----------- John
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
John quips:
>"African polytheism" so early is hard to demonstrate.
Glen:
Perhaps. Luckily, it's simply an entertaining side-point
about the ultimate origins of Semitic mythology and
nothing that I need get deeply into right now.
John:
>It was not just the Semitish who did so Glen. It seems to have been
>a key factor of the first Caucasian speaking farmers.
Glen:
Of course, but as we've already discussed ad nauseam, there are no
demonstratable Caucasic loans to be found in IE (IndoEuropean). Until we
find 'em, that leaves the obvious Semitish avenue which we will continue
down on.
John:
>Catal Huyuk is a classic site, showing clear connections between the
> iconography here and the goddess images of the upper Paleolithic
>(Gravetians) which stretched from Spain to the trans Ural region.
Glen:
The wide spread of the Goddess religion can be associated with the
VascoCaucasic language spread which split very early into Vasconic (Basque)
and Caucasic (Hattic, NEC, HurroUrartian). I'm beginning to suspect that
Linear A (Minoan) might be VascoCaucasic too but let's not hold our breath
on that one :) As far as I know, Catal Huyuk doesn't show a clear "blend" of
mythologies but rather shows the typical undifferentiated characteristics of
the Goddess religion.
John:
>There is also the underlying myth in Semitic of
>the Goddess as the watery depths.
>She was the serpentine Tehom in Hebrew, Tiamat in Akkadian.
Glen:
Yes. It's always either the bird (sky) or the serpent (waters) that creates
the world in these myths.
John:
>The idea of the world as made from the body of a slain divinity
>also shows up in Norse mythology (Ymir), who was
> cognate with the Iranian Jamashah and the Hindu Yama.
Glen:
I have to question this. Sure you aren't confusing things here? In this
particular case you're refering to the Twins that fight each other and one
of them becoming the originator of _mankind_ (not the universe) as in the
story of Cain and Abel, Romulus and Remus & Castor and Pollux.
Tiamat however is related to a clear pattern of creation of the _universe_
(not mankind) with the opening theme of a bird (Nyx) or serpent (Tiamat)
that
starts the process.
John:
>Tehom also shows up as the Greek Oceanus and as the Norse Midgard >Serpent,
>who holds the world together, so these myths travelled a long
>way. To Eastern Asia and beyond.
Glen:
In fact, more food for thought about IndoEuropean/Semitic myth:
The story of the Flood is in fact a story about _Re-Creation_
since we find a bird flying over the waters
(sent by Noah/Utnapishtim, in this case searching for land).
It can be seen as a metaphor for the Mother Goddess creating the universe
yet again. I just figured that out and I feel proud enough to share.
There are other parallels too.
John:
>Eurafrican Glen? I think you are dreaming here.
Glen:
It's your dream, not mine. A blend of European and African myth is a reality
just as there is a blend of genetics, culture and language between the two
continents. Wakey-wakey, now.
John:
>Hadad as a thunder god is relatively late.
Glen:
True. West Semitic. I'm sure it is influenced by earlier forms though (Baal,
maybe?) The similarities are too great to ignore.
John:
>[Ishtar] is very early, but her association with the Semitic Innana seems
>to have occurred principally during the reign of Sargon of Akkad,
> and his daughter Enheduanna.
Glen:
This says nothing. *`ATtaru is certainly early and what does Innana have to
do with anything?
John:
>>[...] original Goddess religion with a smattering of African voodoo for
>>good measure.
>
>African voodoo? Glen, please! Voodoo as a religion was the product
>of the Slave centuries [...]
Glen:
Obviously. I was taking some liberty with the English language here,
casually mentioning voodoo in connection with African mythology. Afterall,
voodoo is still based very much based on the beliefs of Africa - not
something that slaves just made up to pass the time away! Why, one may even
call it a Eurafrican religion, n'est pas?
------------ gLeN
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
StarWreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:16:17 EDT |
|
Salvete!
<< As a newbie to the NR list, I'm going to stick my neck out here with an
idea that may be *too* simplistic, lol. I hope nobody minds. ;-) >>
Well, Here's another idea thats just as simple. Conscript is a synonym for
Draft. Drafting of course weas the government forcing men to join the
military. Maybe "Conscript Father" was... the person who chose who to be
drafted for the army, or a father who has sons that were drafted. *Shrugs*
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Marius Aurelianus <aurelianus@--------> |
| Date: |
Date header was inserted by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net |
|
Salvete omnes...
> Maybe "Conscript Father" was... the person who chose who to be
> drafted for the army, or a father who has sons that were drafted.
Hmm...I was thinking it was the Senators themselves who were 'drafted';
that there were not enough Patrician members to make up a full Senate
after the Gaulish invasion and sack led by Brennus, so noteworthy
Plebeians were 'conscripted' to fill the empty seats. Is this far
off-base...? (I write this without having delved into my
references...)
***********************************************************
Lucius Marius Aurelianus |>[SPQR]<|
<aurelianus@--------> |\=/|
Storyteller, Roleplayer Emeritus, ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Historical Re-Creationist, `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
and Citizen of Rome ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
'Just a-hangin' around the Universe, | | / )\ \| /
bein' a Roman...it's hard work, but _|_| / _/_| /`(
*somebody's* gotta do it!!' /./..=' /./..'
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:25:42 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes.
The term "fathers" was (according to my knowledge) used to address the
original patrician senators. Conscripti (meaning "who are scripted
together") was the term used to designate the upcomers, the non-patrician
senators. They filled the ranks when plebejans were enabled to join the
senate (around 330 BCE, as Q. Fabius Maximus mentions). Like him, I don´t
have my sources available now. In German, the terminus is translated as
"Väter und Beigeschriebene". Fabius´ explanation is in my opinion the
clearest. Please note also that the ranks of the senators were filtered by
the Censors, which had the imperium to expel senators. Also they had the
imperium to appoint Senators, usually men who had served as Quaestors. I
think that this was made by a written appointment.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Legatus Germaniae
Lucius Cornelius Sulla schrieb:
> Salvete Omnes
>
> Tonite, well this morning, I have participated in a discussion in the NR
> chatroom regarding the origion of the term, "Conscript Fathers." This
> of course is the term that is used to address the Senate of both Ancient
> Rome and in Nova Roma. Well, between conversations between Piscinus,
> Marcus Attilius Regulus, and myself we discussed some theories but my
> knowledge is extremely limited in this area. So, I am hoping that some
> of you folks might be able to shed some light in this matter. :) Any
> opinions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:01:01 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes again
Marius Aurelianus schrieb:
> Salvete omnes...
>
> > Maybe "Conscript Father" was... the person who chose who to be
> > drafted for the army, or a father who has sons that were drafted.
>
> Hmm...I was thinking it was the Senators themselves who were 'drafted';
> that there were not enough Patrician members to make up a full Senate
> after the Gaulish invasion and sack led by Brennus, so noteworthy
> Plebeians were 'conscripted' to fill the empty seats. Is this far
> off-base...? (I write this without having delved into my
> references...)
The plebeian Senators were not violently drafted. The participation of
plebejans in public businesses was the item the plebejans fought for in this
early times. But the time of emergence (Brennus) accelerated the whole
thing...
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Very ancient Religion |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 18:52:56 EDT |
|
Salvete Quirites
This string on Egyptian myth, and Gimbustas, and etc. is too long to
comment on in detail as I might like. Instead I am just going to provide
some websites on Prehistoric Italy as that is most relevant to us in NR.
Some of these sites are for the general public and introductory in nature.
Others are sites where professional papers are being presented. Some are in
English, others Italian.
For those who might like to begin studying Prehistoric Italy first try
the University of Sydney site: <A
HREF="http://www.archaeology.usyd.edu.au/arcl3001/">ARCL 3001: The
Archaeology of Pre-Roman Italy</A>
The following site has various Neolithic to Bronze age ruins: menhirs,
dolmens, fortresses: <A
HREF="http://www.stonepages.com/dmeozzi/Italia/Italia.html">Stones of Italy -
Stones of Italy</A>
More generalized sites, beginning with the Bronze Age and dealing
primarily with Rome: <A
HREF="http://myron.sjsu.edu/romeweb/glossary/timeln/contents.htm">Title of
this Table of Contents</A> and <A
HREF="http://www.bowdoin.edu/dept/clas/arch102/">Archaeology 102:
Introduction to Roman Archaeology</A>
The Italian Archaeological Bulletin: <A
HREF="http://dns.unife.it/notes/index.html">NOTES</A>
The Mediterrenean Prehistory Online covers a wider area of concern, but
prehistoric Italy would be included here. The particular article on obsidian
distribution, with concern for the trade patterns in Prehistoric Italy I
found especially interesting. <A
HREF="http://www.med.abaco-mac.it/articles/aol.htm">Articles Online</A>
There are several sites available for individual digs. Usually these may
be found for individual provinces, like this one for Tuscany: <A
HREF="http://www.area.fi.cnr.it/area/sesto/arch1.htm">Archeologia preistorica
a Sesto Fiorentino</A>
For a good source for materials on any period of history fordham
University has a good site. Here is the one that pertains to ancient
history: <A HREF="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/asbook.html">Internet
Ancient History Sourcebook: Main Page</A>
There are other sites I have already recommended in earlier posts.
The point to be made is that during the Bronze Age, prior to the arrival
of those nasty patrilinialists called Indo-Europeans, Italy was already
covered with depictions of warriors in helmets and body armor, engaging in
warfare, hilltop villages with defensive walls, and graveyards filled with
those who did not die peaceably. And further, there seems to be some
evidence that women participated in head bashing just as much as did the men.
The theories of a peaceful, idyllic, matrilinial community, put out by
some of Gimbustas' followers, just does not hold up, and certainly do not
derive from any evidence presented by Gimbustas or any other archaeologist.
You can find your own sites for and against this theory.
If any are interested on the topic of Archaic or Prehistoric Italy, I
could probably put together a list of books as well.
Valete
Piscine
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Senate news |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:23:37 EDT |
|
Salvete omnes
A few items of business have been ocurring on the Senate list.
The senior Censor has withdrawn his request for Senate action against the
Tribunus Plebis L. Sergius Australicus. Peaceful coexistence, if not
affection, reigns between these two magistrates.
Legio VI, based in Albany, NY, has applied for sponsorship by Nova Roma,
via application by one Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus, Praefectus Legionis.
The text of the newly crafted censorial edict on changing names has been
posted for review and comment by Senators, prior to official
proclamation. Due to some kind of interruption in email, I learned of
this just yesterday and have not had time to read it.
C Marius Merullus has posted a proposed procedure for magistrates to
claim reimbursement of expenses incurred in service to the State.
That is all for now.
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus
Tribunus Plebis
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Question to NR Scholars |
| From: |
Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:33:49 -0600 |
|
Salvete,
I don't believe the phrase patres conscripti has any tie to plebeians at
all. "Conscripti" simply means that these were the patres who were enrolled
in a certain class (i.e. they were the heads of the important families); on
a snobby note, one could event refer to them as 'the select' or 'the
chosen' -- *all* senators could be so addressed, even those from the old
families.
mpj
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