| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roamn Ocean Going Vessels |
| From: |
"Tertia Albia" <albia@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:08:18 -0700 |
|
Salvete!
Can't find any information on the Roman Navy or trading vessels on the NR
Site - but I am looking for links, books, etc... for information on Roman
ocean going vessels. I am a sailor and am toying with the idea of
researching ancient Roman Boats in order to build a reproduction of one -
maybe to teach kids? history re-enactment?- special charters or cruises?
Wouldn't it be cool to have a Roman wedding that culminated in a Honeymoon
aboard a Roman Vessel in the Mediterranean? or to take a holiday aboard such
a craft complete with larium (?) and traditional celebrations!? - just an
idea at the moment - but who knows!!?? any contact/advice/links would be
appreciated.
O===)=========>
Bene Valete
Tertia Albia Caesia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Another cursed resignation ( A response and adendum to Green is the Colour) |
| From: |
Im2Brandon@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:03:30 EDT |
|
Nova Roma, Roma Resurgens. Many months ago I looked upon those words and
the picture of Augustus in his majesty welcoming me to a nation that before
that time I
had no idea of its existence, and was awed. I was tickled pink of the
possibility of joining a
group that prided itself on the restoration of Roman culture, government, and
virtues in
the modern world. Of course, I joined to further my exposure to Nova Roma,
and to a
greater extent, expand my horizons and my knowledge. Great dreams and wondrous
feelings ensued from that moment...
Until recently. Perhaps it is idealistic youth that drives me at this
moment. But now
I look upon this “nation” and I see so many things that leave me with a bad
taste in my
mouth. In my exposure to this micronation I do not see a fraternal community
of scholars,
but rather a collection of pedagogues who daily take part in contests to
prove who is the
greatest Roman scholar not trying to enhance the general knowledge of all,
but suborning
the beauty of history to use as a weapon in arguments and tools to put
“simpletons” in
their place. What has happened is that you all pride yourselves on a love and
knowledge of
Rome, but you learned none of the lessons that Rome taught. First, you create
a power
elite, stratifying the government, alienating it from the people. Then,
secondly, you put
through a piece of legislation that, by all means is disapproved by a great
number of the
populace. Of course I am referring to the Gender Edict that still has so many
ambiguities
that it has failed to move past the Senate. If you truly wish to get any
support from the
people, conduct a plebiscite.
Also, when strong individuals show themselves as those who stand alone,
not
falling to the beckoning status quo, you laugh. Oh yes, you laugh or you
dismiss them as
village idiots or eccentric madmen who should remain silent rather than
expressing beliefs
that run contrary to the ideas of the power elite. There is no protection of
the minority.
And furthermore, this government is not open. I have already stated that it
is not
responsive to the will of the people, but also it is not responsible to the
people. Where are
the tribunes, where is the right of the people to hear of what goes on in our
vaunted
Senate? Where is the disclosure to the citizens of the Republic? I see little
if any at all.
And if you wish, Audens, to have people run for government and operate within
it, than
take it out of the back alleys and the places where you hide it, bring it out
into the open air
where all can see, and where all can join in, and where it can flourish.
And finally, I do not see how one can profess the true love of the image
of Rome
and the governing ideas of Nova Roma when a great degree of the postings are
rallying
toward the flag of the United States. Nova Roma is not a cheer section where
those whose
nationalism drives them to use the Forum as a means to proclaim the greatness
of the
United States and attack what they see as the lackings of the “lesser
nations”. In fact, this
is not supposed to be happening at all. I saw Nova Roma as an unbiased entity
that was to
be a nation state on its own, a place to leave behind macronational disputes
and identities.
A place where the love of Roma is not degraded to the love of one’s
macronation. Truly this
is not the case, and truly many cannot take an unbiased objective approach to
this nation.
If the tone of this letter wasn’t apparent enough, I am posting my
resignation as a
citizen in this nation, I had hoped that the inherent flaws I saw would be
addressed from
the time that I had witnessed them, but this was not the case. And I, as with
others will try
not to digress into vulgarity in our postings. Some day, Nova Roma will rise
to the place
that I saw for it many months ago, I will await the day that she achieves
that fine destiny,
and perhaps she will welcome me with open arms as she did the day I became a
citizen.
Until then, adieu.
Farewell and good luck,
Brandon Wayne Burns (once know as Publius Cornelius Sertorius
Claudius)
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Another cursed resignation ( A response and adendum to Green is the Colour) |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 21:49:24 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Brandon Wayne Burns;
Your resignation distresses me since you leave this place with such a
skewed view of our world.
I am surprised at your statement that I should take the government out
of back alleys and dark places, simply because it has never been in a
place such as you describe to those who have spent any time here.
Again, as your dissatisfied predessors before you, you speak in
generalities or of things that are not apparent to most of the citizens,
and therefore, as you well know, cannot be addressed by any Magistrate
or set of Magistrates. The one specific item you mention has been
rewritten, but you don't have time to wait for it's release.
Your anguish against the Gender Edict together with others has
engendered a change that has been brought forward by the Censors working
together, but you are so impatient to get your personal desires made the
law that you will not even wait to see what your government has done. I
am one who does not see the Edict as it is now written as a satisfactory
item as it stands, but I have chosen to let the elected magistrates
responsible for such--for the first time together--attempt to do what
the people have elected them to do, but of course you can not wait for
that.
You have said that the minority is not protected, but your postings to
this list are read and evaluated by every Nova Roman on the Onelist, and
your minority votes are counted and noted to the people by number,
tribe, and century, but of course that is not good enough as apparenty
anything less that getting what you want is unsatisfactory.
One tribune is reporting regularly, the last time just today, and the
other even though he has problems in getting on line has been active in
the government to the best of his ability, but of course, you wouldn't
know about that because you chose to leave before his last report.
You accuse me of hiding the government in dark and unsavory places, but
you have done nothing to show me the way you want me to go, or even to
contact me or my Consular Colleague with your frustrations, ideas, anger
or whatever drives your activity.
And now you say that you will let others develop Nova Roma to your
specifications, and let others do the work and let others ferret out the
answers, let others move slowly but steadily forward in creating the
perfect place for you to sit back and enjoy the fruits of other's labor.
Hmmmmmmmmm! Well in my meagre experience and poor political showing,
there are names for creatures who live off growing organisms, but who
contibute nothing but pain and sometimes disease for thier
feasting---However, those names that spring to mind, could not possibly
be a relative to you as they are nothing better than insects-- so I must
refer to my dctionary==Let me see!!!!!! Ohhh I am so sorry, I guess I
will have to get a bigger edition!!
Vale, Long Life to You and All the Success That You Will Need To Find A
Preconcieved Place To Your Satisfaction That Others Have Struggled Long
To Create;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Apology to NR |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:15:05 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes
I want to apologize to all of NR for the postings of my ex-Gens
members. As many of you know, there are some resignations going on in
my Gens. And, they are basically being very rude to not only the
government of NR but to the People who they are so quick to jump to
defend. To me it doesnt make much sense, but considering the fact that
they are kids (around 17-18 years old) should be understandable. This
is no insult intended from the many young citizens NR has.
Let me also state that throughout the year I have had a Gens e-mail
list. And, one of these individuals who resigned ever posted their
concerns to me privately or in the Gens list. So, there was never
really a way to even fix the problem since they never told me.
So, again I wish to apologize for this situation, it reflects poorly on
myself since I allowed them to enter my Gens.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Apology to NR |
| From: |
Lykaion1@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:43:53 EDT |
|
Salve Sulla,
You have nothing to apologise for. You are really better off without
these whiners.
What they really desire is attention, which is why they post long winded
sniveling posts. They will of course return hoping to read a bunch of "oh,
please don't go you are so freakin valuable" replies. They are no loss.
As for honor....the first boy to pack up his toys and go home is still
using the name Cornelius in his chat room name. If they have any honor at
all, they will drop that name before darkening the taverna door again.
Gaius Lupinius Festus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] How To Resign: A Simple Form |
| From: |
Lykaion1@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:07:41 EDT |
|
To save time and to keep mailbox clutter to a minimum, I have rather
ingeniusly devised this simple form for future public resignations. Whiners
and attention cravers who feel the need to grandstand and feel important will
find this useful. Just fill in the blanks and cut/paste.
I AM RESIGNING FROM NOVA ROMA.
I wanted this:__________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
But I didn't get things my way, so I quit. You are a bunch of
___________________
_____________________________________________________________________
I want replies from people asking me not to leave, telling me how smart and
important I am, and how NR will just never be the same without me, so please
inflate my flagging ego by sending sympathy email to my email address, which
is __________________
{Fill in any extra gripes and tantrums below}
_______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________
Sign real name here, followed by ex-Roman name in parenthesis.
_________________________
It is my sincere hope and wish that this form will be most helpful.
Gaius Lupinius Festus {who, should he ever resign, will send private email to
the censors}
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Another cursed resignation (yawn!) ;) |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:28:23 EDT |
|
Salvete,
Ordinarily I don't bother to respond to the occasional "Melodramatic
Resignation Swan Song" that filters through the list, since usually such
replies are a waste of everyone's time. However, I thought a few facts might
not be out of place just this once...
1. As far as I am aware as a past Censor, Nova Roma has *never* had less than
20 new Citizens join in any month since it's founding. (Usually it's 30 or
40!) We're gaining a minimum of 240 Citizens a year - so far without any
real advertising except making the main NR website available. (I can't wait
for the Outreach Sodalitas to get started!)
2. Out of that base of 20 Citizens per month, perhaps as many as five
eventually fade away, or decide to quit outright. That give an estimated
maximum of 55 folks leaving each year. (Usually it's less than that.) Yet
even if that number is true we're gaining at an estimated *minimum* of 180
serious Citizens a year.
2. In essence both entering and leaving Nova Roma is an easy process.
Citizenship is free and is granted to all serious applications, and those
who leave generally do so without too many hard feelings. Folks who leave
have so far always been welcomed back if they choose to return, although they
do have to formally reapply to resume Citizenship if they go over the ten day
"waiting" period. We've had several Citizens do this as their personal
situations changed. We're all here through a love of things Roman... and
personal squabbles tend not to be quite so enduring as Romanitas itself.
3. My guess is that this ratio of people joining vs. leaving Nova Roma is
going to change only gradually. As Nova Roma begins to grow by publicizing
it's existence, more folks will be able to meet on a "face to face" local
level and this might mean fewer misunderstandings among us. Might. For the
meantime, at least the next full year, we'll be looking at that minimum of
240 people coming in, and a maximum of 55 people leaving. This is just facts
of life stuff and I for one refuse to get worked up over it - especially
since it means I'm gaining at least 180 new Roman friends a year! ;)
4. The estimates above are fairly verifiable. Nova Roma has been around for
two years, and we have 469 (Whoops! 468!) Citizens. This count is probably a
little low since I don't believe the Censors latest data has made it to the
website.
My point with all this? Stuff happens, and it's easy to forget the facts
whenever someone decides to do some personal venting to the list. The facts
are actually pretty simple. Two years ago there were something less than a
dozen "serious" Roman folks in any kind of meaningful contact with one
another... now there are 468.
There is now a growing community where there wasn't one before. I don't know
about anyone else but I'm pretty damned happy about it all.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Question for Scholars |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:42:05 EDT |
|
Salvete Quirites
As you have begun to speculate about our conversation maybe I should
weigh in and explain the issues a little.
The phrase Patres et Conscripti dates back into the regal period, some
sources claim all the way back to Romulus, but before the Republic, as laid
out by Ogilvie (Comm. 1965). It can not therefor refer to the Plebians
attaining rights in 330 bce, nor in 493 bce.
This is only a small part to the wider question of the origin of the
Plebs and the Patricians. You can not project our present day connotation of
these title, or even the connotations they had developed during the
Republican era, back into the Archaic period and assume that those later
associations were the original. This is a question being debated between
Professor Arnaldo Momigliano of Rome and J.C. Richard.
It does not follow that just because the Patricians would be
paterfamilies that the Plebians did not have gentes and paters of gens as
well. Pleb senators could just as easily be considered patres. We know the
Plebs were not immigrants as the Sabine Claudii arrive in 504 bce and became
patricians. Then too there are the earlier Sabine patricians, Valerii, and
the office of Flamen Quirinalis is associated with the Sabines, but reserved
only for patricians. So the Pleb question does not refer to any ethnic
difference, and the conscripti does not seem to apply to the Plebs.
I have suggested that the conscripti may refer to an alternate form of
social organization, related to the curiae. Here the conscripti also has a
military connotation in that it may refer to senators drawn from the leaders
of the curiae. (See Beginnings of Rome, T.J.Cornell, 1995; p114-116, and
242-271.)
Another possible connotation is that conscripti can refer to some people
designated by treaty. That is they could be senators from the non-Roman
Latini, or possibly ambassadors of other cities, sent to observe the senate
proceedings. Unlikely but all considerations are still open.
There is one other point I have made here, and that is that the
archaeological evidence shows that Villanovans were in the earliest levels of
Roman occupancy, but abruptly disappear at about the same time as the
beginning of the Republic. (See article on settlement patterns <A
HREF="http://www.shef.ac.uk/~assem/4/">assemblage, no. 4</A> as I have
previously recommended) I think that should be taken into consideration.
What segment of the society prior to the Republic was Villanovan and why did
they leave with the Republic's establishment? And why only in northern Lazio,
not southern? Does this have any bearing on the patrician/plebian division
in Roman society?
Regule has not laid out any theory yet. But he has mentioned something
along the lines suggested by Marius Aurelianus. He is providing sources too,
which I am scrambling to find.
Again, we meet in the chat room every work day at 1:00PM Greenwich or
8:00AM EST. Please join in.
Valete
Piscine
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Books on Archaic Italy |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:14:02 EDT |
|
Salvete Quirites
Regulus has provided me with a list of Italian authors on Archaic Italy
and the founding of Rome. I have found some of these are translated into
English, and to these I have added a couple others:
The Classical Foundations of Modern Histiography. Arnaldo Momigliano & R. di
Donato, 1992.
Roma Arcaica. A. Momigliano, Firenze:1989.
The Foundation of Rome:Myth & History. Alexandre Grandazzi,et al, 1997.
La Foundazione di Roma. A. Grandazzi, 1993.
History of Earliest Italy. Massimo Pallottino, 1991.
The Etruscans. Massimo Pallottino, out of print.
Origini e Storia Primitiva Roma. Massimo Pallottino, out of print.
La Tavole Iguvinge. Ancillotti Cerri; Perugia: 1997.
Underground Religion: Cult & Culture in Prehistoric Italy. R.D.Whitehouse;
London:1992.
The Beginnings of Rome. T.J.Cornell; London: 1995.
Valete
Piscine
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:17:08 -0500 |
|
20 June 2000
Salve
I would like help finding information about a ancient Roman Legion. The
Legio I am interested in was called "Legio I(I Germanica)". I have found
this Legion in G.R.Watson's book called "The Roman Soldier". Any help will
be of great importance to me.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Citizen
Canada Occidentalis
Nova Roma
quintus-sertorius@--------
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Another cursed resignation (yawn!) ;) |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:38:35 EDT |
|
Salvete!
In any nation, even our micronation there will be comings and goings. It is
something that happens to all organizations. As long as the comings out
number the goings, and does not disrupt the government of Nova Roma, I see it
as something to live with. I was bothered to hear that several of former
members resigned because they couldn't be Praetors and Consuls right away. I
say to you all again. We are not a true role playing game. You earn your
trust and admiration here being a productive citizen. As you do your
offices. 18-19 years old is too young for a major magistracy. Ancient Rome
knew this and we follow suit. Finally if you want Rome to help you, you must
help Rome. The last several weeks I have had many requests from younger
citizens asking for my help in writing term papers. I'll be glad to provide
sources for information if you have specific questions but that is all. The
Senior Consul will not cowrite term papers. I'm not the reference librarian
at the Imperial Library. Sorry. And if you work hard for Nova Roma, one day
you will receive your reward: A strong and healthy micro nation.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: How To Resign: A Simple Form |
| From: |
"Jennifer Harris" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:47:17 -0000 |
|
--- Salve Festus,
ROFLMAO!!!!!! That was hilarious!! I have to admit that was the best
thing I have seen all day.!!! Thank you for cheering me up.
Vale
*Full of Giggles*
Aeternia Draconia
In novaroma@--------, Lykaion1@c... wrote:
> To save time and to keep mailbox clutter to a minimum, I have
rather
> ingeniusly devised this simple form for future public
resignations. Whiners
> and attention cravers who feel the need to grandstand and feel
important will
> find this useful. Just fill in the blanks and cut/paste.
>
> I AM RESIGNING FROM NOVA ROMA.
>
> I wanted
this:__________________________________________________________
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
>
> But I didn't get things my way, so I quit. You are a bunch of
> ___________________
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
>
>
> I want replies from people asking me not to leave, telling me how
smart and
> important I am, and how NR will just never be the same without me,
so please
> inflate my flagging ego by sending sympathy email to my email
address, which
> is __________________
>
> {Fill in any extra gripes and tantrums below}
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
_
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
_
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
_
>
> Sign real name here, followed by ex-Roman name in parenthesis.
>
> _________________________
>
>
> It is my sincere hope and wish that this form will be most helpful.
>
> Gaius Lupinius Festus {who, should he ever resign, will send
private email to
> the censors}
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:00:27 +0200 |
|
Salve, Quintus Sertorius
A short info at first. I have my books not available at this moment, but I
promise you to take a look.
As I can remember at this moment, the legio I germanica was a unit in the army
of Augustus and his sucessors. It was stationed at Bonna (Bonn), Germania
Superior from 43 CE onwards. In the year of the four emperors (69 CE), a
vexillatio of this legio was used by Vitellius, when he marched to Italy. The
parts of the legio remaining in Bonna were destroyed by the batavi during
their uprising, the castra was destroyed by the batavi. The surviving soldiers
were absorbed by the batavi. For this, the legio I germanica was disbanded by
Vespasian in 69 or 70 CE.
Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Legatus Germaniae
Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
> 20 June 2000
>
> Salve
>
> I would like help finding information about a ancient Roman Legion. The
> Legio I am interested in was called "Legio I(I Germanica)". I have found
> this Legion in G.R.Watson's book called "The Roman Soldier". Any help will
> be of great importance to me.
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
> Citizen
> Canada Occidentalis
> Nova Roma
> quintus-sertorius@--------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1 out of 3 have it and they don't know it.
> ARE YOU AT RISK?
> Find out and win $1500!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5602/6/_/61050/_/961561120/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] re: foot stompin Roman music |
| From: |
gkbagne@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:12:30 -0000 |
|
As I was reading Ovid's Fasti tonight I came across this passage
about a feast and drinking session attended by demigods "Others
linked arms and stamped a quick three-step on the verdant ground."
bk6 line330. It seems to me Ovid is conjuring a mental picture his
audience is expected to be familiar with from their own lives. I
picture the dance as a line dance like a Greek folk dance. Houpah!
lapyella
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:49:44 -0500 |
|
20 June 2000
Salve
Thank you for the quick reply. You have with your post more than doubled my
knowledge of LegI(I Germanica).I eagerly await any further information.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Citizen
Canada Occidentalis
Nova Roma
quintus-sertorius@--------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica)
> Salve, Quintus Sertorius
>
> A short info at first. I have my books not available at this moment, but I
> promise you to take a look.
>
> As I can remember at this moment, the legio I germanica was a unit in the
army
> of Augustus and his sucessors. It was stationed at Bonna (Bonn), Germania
> Superior from 43 CE onwards. In the year of the four emperors (69 CE), a
> vexillatio of this legio was used by Vitellius, when he marched to Italy.
The
> parts of the legio remaining in Bonna were destroyed by the batavi during
> their uprising, the castra was destroyed by the batavi. The surviving
soldiers
> were absorbed by the batavi. For this, the legio I germanica was disbanded
by
> Vespasian in 69 or 70 CE.
>
> Vale
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> Legatus Germaniae
>
> Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
>
> > 20 June 2000
> >
> > Salve
> >
> > I would like help finding information about a ancient Roman Legion. The
> > Legio I am interested in was called "Legio I(I Germanica)". I have found
> > this Legion in G.R.Watson's book called "The Roman Soldier". Any help
will
> > be of great importance to me.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> > Citizen
> > Canada Occidentalis
> > Nova Roma
> > quintus-sertorius@--------
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 1 out of 3 have it and they don't know it.
> > ARE YOU AT RISK?
> > Find out and win $1500!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5602/6/_/61050/_/961561120/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> $B%5!<%/%k!&F1Ak2q!&F1N=!&%S%8%M%9!&2HB2$G$I$&$>!*(B
> $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/8/_/61050/_/961570829/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] How To Resign: A Simple Form |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:14:35 EDT |
|
Excellent, Festus!
On 6/20/00 10:07 PM Gaius Lupinius Festus (Lykaion1@--------) wrote:
>To save time and to keep mailbox clutter to a minimum, I have rather
>ingeniusly devised this simple form for future public resignations. Whiners
>and attention cravers who feel the need to grandstand and feel important
>will
>find this useful. Just fill in the blanks and cut/paste.
>
>I AM RESIGNING FROM NOVA ROMA.
>
>I wanted this:__________________________________________________________
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>But I didn't get things my way, so I quit. You are a bunch of
>___________________
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>
>I want replies from people asking me not to leave, telling me how smart and
>important I am, and how NR will just never be the same without me, so please
>inflate my flagging ego by sending sympathy email to my email address, which
>is __________________
>
>{Fill in any extra gripes and tantrums below}
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>Sign real name here, followed by ex-Roman name in parenthesis.
>
>_________________________
>
>
>It is my sincere hope and wish that this form will be most helpful.
>
>Gaius Lupinius Festus {who, should he ever resign, will send private email
>to
>the censors}
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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| Subject: |
Fwd: [novaroma] Books on Archaic Italy |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:16:09 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Senator Graecus;
As the NR Webmaster, may I ask that you add the enclosed list of book
titles to the NR Booklist.
My thanks to Piscinus for his efforts in providing booklists of this
quality.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] How To Resign: A Simple Form |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:22:33 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Festus;
I think you have hit just the right note. My congratulations! LOL :-)
:-).
This form I will save to provide to any further resignees who are
inclined to blame the world for thier shortcomings and frustrations.
Well Done and thank you for the grin that it elicited from this grouchy
old curmugeon!!!
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Senate news |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:44:21 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve!
> certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam
> adesse.
>
> (You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in
> Kansas anymore.)
I AM in Kansas!
Correus Appius Iulianus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roamn Ocean Going Vessels |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:46:55 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve!
I may have some info for you. If I can make the
time I will check. If you don't here from me in
a fews days - just pester me.
There is a group (in Greece I think). that has
built a working Trireme (sp?).
Correus Appius Iulianus
--- Tertia Albia <albia@--------> wrote:
> Salvete!
>
> Can't find any information on the Roman Navy or
> trading vessels on the NR
> Site - but I am looking for links, books,
> etc... for information on Roman
> ocean going vessels. I am a sailor and am
> toying with the idea of
> researching ancient Roman Boats in order to
> build a reproduction of one -
> maybe to teach kids? history re-enactment?-
> special charters or cruises?
> Wouldn't it be cool to have a Roman wedding
> that culminated in a Honeymoon
> aboard a Roman Vessel in the Mediterranean? or
> to take a holiday aboard such
> a craft complete with larium (?) and
> traditional celebrations!? - just an
> idea at the moment - but who knows!!?? any
> contact/advice/links would be
> appreciated.
>
> O===)=========>
> Bene Valete
>
> Tertia Albia Caesia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Apology to NR |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:51:05 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix - Salve!
My thoughts are with you in this time of turmoil.
I shall burn incense in your honor and that of
your familia's shades.
Correus Appius Iulianus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Another cursed resignation (yawn!) ;) |
| From: |
"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:58:57 MDT |
|
Salvete,
As a relatively new citizen of Nova Roma, I figured I would add my few words
on the matter.
I do not expect or demand to be a Praetor, or a Consul right away. The way I
understand it is that it is the duty of a citizen to see how NR works before
wanting a position that requires responsibility. Since I have only been a
citizen since May, I do not expect (and would refuse if offered) a position
such as those above. My duty as a citizen, as I see it, it to support those
citizens who currently hold those positions.
For those new citizens who don't understand any of the politics involved
with NR, be patient, observe and ask questions. I admit I don't understand a
lot of of the politics in NR, however, I will eventually learn. The Old
Empire was built on the backs of politicians and the strength of it's
Legions. For the present, NR must rely on it's politicians as the logistics
involved in NR actively recruiting and forming a full sized Legion (at this
time) would be nearly impossible. Even if it could be done, I don't think
any State or Provincial government would allow the ten cohorts and auxilia
of a Legion to terrorize it's jurisdiction. As powerful as a Legion is, I
think it would be a short contest if the foe were the National Guard.
For those who feel dissatisfied of NR and feel they must leave, that is your
right as a citizen... But when you do, please do so quietly, as I am trying
to observe and learn the political process of the micronation that is Nova
Roma.
Valete,
Marcus Darius Ursus
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roman Ocean Going Vessels |
| From: |
"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:07:21 MDT |
|
Salve!
These were some links that I picked up from this group when I first became a
citizen. I hope they are helpful.
http://www.navipisa.it/e-index.htm
http://index.waterland.net/navis/Themes/Commercio/CommerceEnglish.htm
http://www.archeologia.com/roman_navy/rn.html
http://www.freeweb.org/letteratura/romaeterna/english.htm
Vale,
Marcus Darius
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] A Place for Everyone |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:15:10 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve Marcus Darius Ursus;
Welcome to Nova Roma!!! Your words ring wisely in the rotunda, and I
rise to extend the hand of friendship and opportunity as you wish.
There are many places here in NovaRoma that one may gain further insight
into our micronation, help her along and learn a little more about the
internal workings of the government through the political offices and
thier assensai, the administrative offices of the College of Pontiffs or
the openings for volunteers in the Sodalitas within Nova Roma:
--Military Engineering Sodalitas;
--Outreach Sodalitas;
--Food and Wine Sodalitas;
--and there is another Sodalitas which will be coming before the Senate
for approval called the Latin Sodalitas.
If you are interested in any of the above, let me know and perhaps we,
together, ca get you more involved in an area of your particular
interest.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:15:58 +0200 |
|
Ave, Quintus Sertorius
Ill need a few days. Please wait...
Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
> 20 June 2000
>
> Salve
>
> Thank you for the quick reply. You have with your post more than doubled my
> knowledge of LegI(I Germanica).I eagerly await any further information.
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
> Citizen
> Canada Occidentalis
> Nova Roma
> quintus-sertorius@--------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 2:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica)
>
> > Salve, Quintus Sertorius
> >
> > A short info at first. I have my books not available at this moment, but I
> > promise you to take a look.
> >
> > As I can remember at this moment, the legio I germanica was a unit in the
> army
> > of Augustus and his sucessors. It was stationed at Bonna (Bonn), Germania
> > Superior from 43 CE onwards. In the year of the four emperors (69 CE), a
> > vexillatio of this legio was used by Vitellius, when he marched to Italy.
> The
> > parts of the legio remaining in Bonna were destroyed by the batavi during
> > their uprising, the castra was destroyed by the batavi. The surviving
> soldiers
> > were absorbed by the batavi. For this, the legio I germanica was disbanded
> by
> > Vespasian in 69 or 70 CE.
> >
> > Vale
> > Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> > Legatus Germaniae
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
> >
> > > 20 June 2000
> > >
> > > Salve
> > >
> > > I would like help finding information about a ancient Roman Legion. The
> > > Legio I am interested in was called "Legio I(I Germanica)". I have found
> > > this Legion in G.R.Watson's book called "The Roman Soldier". Any help
> will
> > > be of great importance to me.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > >
> > > Quintus Sertorius
> > > Citizen
> > > Canada Occidentalis
> > > Nova Roma
> > > quintus-sertorius@--------
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 1 out of 3 have it and they don't know it.
> > > ARE YOU AT RISK?
> > > Find out and win $1500!
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5602/6/_/61050/_/961561120/
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k!"Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B
> > $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B
> > $B%5!<%/%k!&F1Ak2q!&F1N=!&%S%8%M%9!&2HB2$G$I$&$>!*(B
> > $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/8/_/61050/_/961570829/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k!"Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B
> $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B
> $B%5!<%/%k!&F1Ak2q!&F1N=!&%S%8%M%9!&2HB2$G$I$&$>!*(B
> $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/8/_/61050/_/961581075/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:10:18 +0200 |
|
Salve, Quintus Sertorius.
There are some short notices about the Prima Germanica:
The Legion was raised by Octavian during the time of the triumvirat. It seems that
the unit originally bore the name "Augusta", but this name was purged after a
misbehavior in Spain 19 BCE. The unit was origninally stationed in Spain
(Legio/Leon), but was moved to Gallia 19 BCE and later, as I wrote, to the Rhine
(9 CE in Mogontiacum (Mainz), 14 CE in Cologne, then to Bonn).
Their badge is unknown.
The year the Legion was disbanded was 70 CE.
Source:
Markus Junkelmann: Die Legionen des Augustus, 1986
Vale, until then
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
>
> Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
>
> > 20 June 2000
> >
> > Salve
> >
> > Thank you for the quick reply. You have with your post more than doubled my
> > knowledge of LegI(I Germanica).I eagerly await any further information.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> > Citizen
> > Canada Occidentalis
> > Nova Roma
> > quintus-sertorius@--------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 2:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica)
> >
> > > Salve, Quintus Sertorius
> > >
> > > A short info at first. I have my books not available at this moment, but I
> > > promise you to take a look.
> > >
> > > As I can remember at this moment, the legio I germanica was a unit in the
> > army
> > > of Augustus and his sucessors. It was stationed at Bonna (Bonn), Germania
> > > Superior from 43 CE onwards. In the year of the four emperors (69 CE), a
> > > vexillatio of this legio was used by Vitellius, when he marched to Italy.
> > The
> > > parts of the legio remaining in Bonna were destroyed by the batavi during
> > > their uprising, the castra was destroyed by the batavi. The surviving
> > soldiers
> > > were absorbed by the batavi. For this, the legio I germanica was disbanded
> > by
> > > Vespasian in 69 or 70 CE.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> > > Legatus Germaniae
> > >
> > > Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
> > >
> > > > 20 June 2000
> > > >
> > > > Salve
> > > >
> > > > I would like help finding information about a ancient Roman Legion. The
> > > > Legio I am interested in was called "Legio I(I Germanica)". I have found
> > > > this Legion in G.R.Watson's book called "The Roman Soldier". Any help
> > will
> > > > be of great importance to me.
> > > >
> > > > Vale
> > > >
> > > > Quintus Sertorius
> > > > Citizen
> > > > Canada Occidentalis
> > > > Nova Roma
> > > > quintus-sertorius@--------
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 1 out of 3 have it and they don't know it.
> > > > ARE YOU AT RISK?
> > > > Find out and win $1500!
> > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5602/6/_/61050/_/961561120/
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k!"Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B
> > > $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B
> > > $B%5!<%/%k!&F1Ak2q!&F1N=!&%S%8%M%9!&2HB2$G$I$&$>!*(B
> > > $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/8/_/61050/_/961570829/
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k!"Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B
> > $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B
> > $B%5!<%/%k!&F1Ak2q!&F1N=!&%S%8%M%9!&2HB2$G$I$&$>!*(B
> > $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/8/_/61050/_/961581075/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> SALESFORCE.COM MAKES SOFTWARE OBSOLETE
> Secure, online sales force automation with 5 users FREE for 1 year!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2658/8/_/61050/_/961596959/
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Patres ET conscripti |
| From: |
"Marcus Attilius Regulus " <m.morgantini@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:14:30 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Premesso che chiedo la gentilezza di una collaborazione per la
traduzione dei miei interventi; posso scrivere solo in italiano al
fine di non creare equivoci e problemi di interpretazione.
Comunque , in inglese , mi trovate on line insieme all'amico Piscinus
alle ore 14.00 (merid.Roma), dove sar lieto di dibattere con
tutti
voi sulle tematiche che interessano tutti i cives di NR .
Dunque, "Patres et conscripti" , non una mia idea originale ma
prendo spunto dalle tesi del prof. Arnaldo Momigliano (The origins of
Rome ,in Cambridge Ancient History, VII ,second edition); Momigliano
forse il massimo esponente mondiale di quella scuola che tende
a
rendere compatibile la Tradizione con la moderna critica storica.
Io credo che insieme al prof Massimo Pallottino , grande
etruscologo,
egli abbia offerto un quadro d'insieme accettabile per coloro che
vivono la storia di Roma come una fede pi che una disciplina
scientifica.
Patres conscripti una aggettivazione dei Senatori; Patres et
conscripti profondamente differente: indica una suddivisione
all'interno del Senato. Fermo restando che i Patres sono Patrizi ,
chi
sono i conscripti? Perch stato necessario inserire dei
Senatori non
Patres all'interno dell'Assemblea? Quando stato decretato? e da
chi?
Il problema si lega ,oggettivamente con un'altra dualit : Populus
plebeque. La Plebs era parte del popolus? Tentiamo insieme di dare
una risposta plausibile a tutto questo.
Marcus Attilius vi saluta con grande stima per il vostro impegno nei
confronti della storia e della civilt della mia citt , unica
al
mondo : l'Urbs nostra amatissima.
Remember translation necesse est!!
Marcus Attilius Regulus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roamn Ocean Going Vessels |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:28:08 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/21/2000 6:47:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
correus@-------- writes:
<< There is a group (in Greece I think). that has
built a working Trireme (sp?).
>>
Salvete!
Triremes are not ocean going vessels! They are land based units. The most a
Trireme or Tres, to use the Greek term, can stay at sea is 2-3 days. I think
what our friend wants is a merchant like a grain ship, or a wine transport.
I have drawings and plans of those avaliable, but I'm in the middle of
launching a new historical magazine. I'll see if I can get to those plans on
the weekend.
Valete!
Q. Fabius
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Roamn Ocean Going Vessels |
| From: |
Correus <correus@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:55:08 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve!
> << There is a group (in Greece I think). that
> has
> built a working Trireme (sp?).
> >>
> Triremes are not ocean going vessels! They are
> land based units. The most a
> Trireme or Tres, to use the Greek term, can
> stay at sea is 2-3 days. I think
> what our friend wants is a merchant like a
> grain ship, or a wine transport.>>
I knew that that is what he wanted, however, I am
only aware of the one working Trireme - that is
the closest sailing vesel (that is used) I am
aware of that has been built the way the use to
do it.
Correus Appius
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: A Place for Everyone |
| From: |
"Jennifer Harris" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:58:46 -0000 |
|
---Salve Marcus Darius Ursus,
Opportunity is a good thing around here, I'd also like to extend an
invitation. If you by any chance happen to write poetry or have an
interest in it. I have just the place for you,e-mail me at
SyanneRose@-------- there I will give you details. While I'm at I'd
like to also extend an invitation to Consul Audens himself. Ok I
think I'm done with the babble thanks again everyone for listening.
Vale
Aeternia Draconia
*Who is still recovering from Festus's hilarious post*
In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Salve Marcus Darius Ursus;
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma!!! Your words ring wisely in the rotunda, and
I
> rise to extend the hand of friendship and opportunity as you wish.
> There are many places here in NovaRoma that one may gain further
insight
> into our micronation, help her along and learn a little more about
the
> internal workings of the government through the political offices
and
> thier assensai, the administrative offices of the College of
Pontiffs or
> the openings for volunteers in the Sodalitas within Nova Roma:
>
> --Military Engineering Sodalitas;
>
> --Outreach Sodalitas;
>
> --Food and Wine Sodalitas;
>
> --and there is another Sodalitas which will be coming before the
Senate
> for approval called the Latin Sodalitas.
>
> If you are interested in any of the above, let me know and perhaps
we,
> together, ca get you more involved in an area of your particular
> interest.
>
> Vale, Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] History of Legio I(IGermanica) |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:05:07 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/21/2000 7:20:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 3s@--------
writes:
<< Leg I (I Germanica).I eagerly await any further information. > >>
Salve!
Since I'm writing an abstract on 1st Cremona for my new magazine I had the
info at hand.
GERMANICA (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum XII 2234), reflecting service on
the Rhine, or named by Germanicus, CE 14 for service in quelling the German
mutiny.
First attested: AL 1976, 515 (Augusta); Inscrp. Latin. Select. 2342
(Claudian); AL 1956, 169. Sir Ronald Syme has suggested that this was the
legion deprived of its title in 19 CE; (C. Dio Liv. 11.5) see JRS xxiii 1933,
15. No link has ever been demonstrated.
Number: First
Formed: Either 47-48 (Caesar's consular series), or 43 (Pansa's consular
series). With Octavian, in 41, took part operations against Sextus Pompeius,
in 36. (Appian. BC V. 112).
As Colonists, at Luceria, 31-30 (l' Annee Epigraphique 1969/1970, 158; AE
1976, 168, 169)
Spain, 30 -9 CE; Put down several rebellions, may have been disgraced in rout.
(See Below)
Rhine frontier, Germany 9 CE transferred to replace legiones lost in Varius
disaster.
Took part Tiberius' campaigns (9-12) Mutinied in 14. (Tact. Ann. I. 31; 39;
50.) Germanicus' campaigns 14-16. Mentioned in Germanicus triumph (15) At
Idistavisius (16)
Mutinied in 69 AD against Galba. (Tact. His. II. 55.) Sent a force of three
Cohortis (likely VII-IX) with Caecina to take part in the invasion of Italy
for Vitellius. (Tact. His.II. 61.) Joined Civilis in rebellion. (Tact. His.
IV 59.)
Rejoined Roman troops at Trier. (69) Cashiered shortly after by Cerialis. (
Less then 1000 men probably remained considering their losses in the Camp
siege, and the detachment of the Vexillatio) Eagle in Mars Sanctuary (Cas.
Dio.)
The Emblem: Likely the Julian Bull but not confirmed.
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Patres ET conscripti |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:00:05 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Marcus Attilius Regulus "
<m.morgantini@--------> wrote:
> Patres conscripti una aggettivazione dei Senatori; Patres et
> conscripti profondamente differente: indica una suddivisione
> all'interno del Senato. Fermo restando che i Patres sono Patrizi ,
> chi sono i conscripti? Perch stato necessario inserire dei
> Senatori non Patres all'interno dell'Assemblea? Quando stato
decretato? e da chi?
> Il problema si lega ,oggettivamente con un'altra dualit :
Populus
> plebeque. La Plebs era parte del popolus? Tentiamo insieme di dare
> una risposta plausibile a tutto questo.
>
>> Marcus Attilius Regulus
Salvete
The first question relates to the expression of qui patres quique
conscripti found at Livy 2.1.11 and with Festus, indicating that
already in the Regal period there was recognized a division in the
Senate of two exclusive groups. They do not relate to patricians and
plebians. In the first years of the Republic 12 out of a total of 57
magistrates were Plebians. The percentage of plebian officeholders
actually declines over the next 100 years, and there is no mention of
a struggle by Plebians to win a right to have Senators.
The second question on the populus plebeque is answered by the jurist
C. Ateius Capito (Gellius 10.20.5 and 17.21.27)when he distinguishes
between the two by saying that only the populus included patriciae
gentes as well as plebians. There is also a related problem in that
there were distinguished the maiores gentes and the minores gentes
among the patriciae, with no material available to distinguish
between them.
There are other places with Livy and Cicero alike, reporting on the
laws of prohibition of the intermarriage of plebes and patricians,
where the patricians are referred to as patres, irregardless of
gender. Then too are the sex suffragia which Festus seems to imply
by centuriae procum patricium that within the comitia centuriata
there were centuries composed exclusively of patricians. These were
related to the calvary units organized under the Servian reform. And
there are the various religious offices held to be exclusive to
patricians. The distinction between plebes and patriciae may have
their origin in an earlier period, but widen then during the
Republic. Some historians see the aggitation of the plebes as a
reaction to the closing of the patrician status, implying that it had
been easier in the past to move between plebe and patrician status.
Even the Twelve Tablets marriage prohibition implies the same.
>From the above, and other reasons, it does not follow that such
divisons as patriciae vs plebes, patres et scripti, and populus
plebeque, all correspond to the same two divisions of society.
Although you can say that the patriciae were patres, you can not
really say that there were no plebian patres; nor is there any
indication that at any time were the scripti exclusively plebian, or
patrician, or any other group we know of in Roman society.
Valete
Piscine
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman city maps? |
| From: |
DolanAp@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:03:55 -0000 |
|
Salvets Civitus
I have a personal project in mind and am looking for some help. I
was wondering if anyone from Nova Roma knew of any reliable web sites
or books that might have maps of ancient Roman territories. I am
wanting maps that would show the names of cities, states,
settlements,
and any land holdings that the Romans had a vested interest in. I am
looking at all time periods, from the founding of Rome to the end of
the Empire. I am wanting specific information, so general maps that
have no dates of occupation, will be of no use to me. Any
information
dealing with this topic would be appreciated. Yes I know, that maps
of this type are a tall order. However, if I can find maps that
have date details in relation to settlements, it would reduces my
research time by about 5 years.
Valete Civitus
Thank you for your time, Prima Ritulia Nocta
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Patres ET conscripti |
| From: |
Paula Sherrod <apricot@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:52:18 -0400 |
|
Salve Marcus Attilius Regulus,
La mia base proviene da Friuli ma, purtroppo, non parlo italiano. Vorrei
rispondere a voi ma l' inglese alla funzione italiana di traduzione sul
website di Altavista abbastanza difettoso.
Sono sicuro che che cosa appena ho scritto a suoni abbastanza sconosciuti
mentre lo ho fatto funzionare tramite il traduttore:) Aiuto! Chiunque altro
parla italiano? Sta chiedendo assistenza con la traduzione dei suoi
postings in inglese ed ha
alcune altre domande.
Help! Does anyone else speak Italian? He is asking for assistance with
translating his postings into English and he has some other questions. I ran
the above paragraph through the Altavista translator and it is probably
gibberish.
Popillia Cassia Aemilii
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Patres ET conscripti-oops |
| From: |
Paula Sherrod <apricot@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:56:18 -0400 |
|
Looks like Piscine took care of the translation (thank you!) Teaches me
for not reading all of the messages in my inbox.
Popillia Cassia Aemilii
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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