| Subject: |
[novaroma] Senate in session |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:00:33 EDT |
|
Salvete civites
The Senate has been called to order by Consul Marcus Minucius Audens, who
has charged it with consideration of the following agenda:
1.---To authorize the replacement of the Album Civium, Album Gentium,
Album Sentorium and citizenship aplication papers; (Yes-No);
This is with regard to the proposal from Marcus Octavius Germanicus I
reported on 07 June.
2.---To Move the entire www.novarma.org site to the server hosted by
M.Octavoius Germanicus; (Yes-No);
As above.
3.---Expansion of the Miltary Sodalitas; (Yes-No);
I accidentally deleted the details of this one.
4.---Approval of the Proposed Sodalitas Latinitatnus: (Yes-No);
The Latin language interest group.
5.---Approval of a Proposed Website Application Protocol; (Yes-No);
Having to do with linking to other Web sites and adding sites to the Web
ring.
6.---Confirm the appointment of Lucius Cornelia Sulla Felix as ProConsul
for the Province of California / Nevada: (Yes-No);
To fill out the term vacated by Helena Cornelia Ovidia's resignation.
7.---Approve a "--Measure Of Appreciation--" for Praetor Vado of
Britannia and his Provincial Report: (Yes-No):
He gave a remarkably thorough and informative provincial report which
should serve as a model to other governors (my personal opinion).
8.---Approve the Proposed Procedure for Senators and Magistares to
recover reimbursements from the NR Treasury: (Yes-No);
Reported previously.
9.---Approval of the application for sponsorship from the VIth Legio
(Albany, NY); (Yes-No);
Reported previously.
10.---Approval of a declaration of current non-alliance / association
with any other micronation; (Yes-No);
Stating that we don't play with the fantasy nations -- we're for real (my
very loose interpretation -- you get the picture, I'm sure).
Credits: This list (less my annotations) quoted from the Consul's summary
post.
There has also been a little discussion of the new "name change" edict,
which I gather is now about to become law. As such, I presume the Censors
will post it publically shortly. It would be presumptuous of me, I think,
to "scoop" them here.
If anyone needs more details, let me know and I will endeavor to get them
for you. I sometimes feel a little silly transferring large chunks of
information from one list to the other, so I usually endeavor to
summarize.
If you have feelings about any or all of these matters, I suggest you
email the Senate at senate@--------
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus the Opinionated
Tribunus Plebis
(Does anybody know the latine for "The Opinionated?" I'm thinking of
agnominating myself.)
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] [Fwd: Ancient Rome] |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:11:43 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes...
I just received this post and I was hoping someone might be able to provide an
answer to him. I thank you very much before hand. :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
Youth Pastor Steve Payne wrote:
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> I am looking for some information on ancient Rome and what there religious
> practices are. I am also looking for information on the view of rape in
> ancient Rome. If you can please help that would be great!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Steve Payne
> Youth Minister/Founder
> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries
> http://www.gcym.org
> Youthldrsteve@-------- <mailto:Youthldrsteve@-------->
> <mailto:pastorsteve@-------->
> voicemail 602-202-8654
> Toll Free 1-800-222-6000 Ext. 1082777
> Please follow the Instructions
> ___________________________________________
> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries is seeking to Team up with other
> Ministries. If you would like to help us, please email us at
> info@-------- <mailto:info@--------
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Anybody interested in a London Nova Roma group.? |
| From: |
"jonothon boulter" <hermet@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:31:46 +0100 |
|
Ave Nova Roma,
Is anybody in either the South-East of England or London in a Nova Roma
Freindly society where we can discuss the re-creation of our Romanic Identity
in Britain and also the political possibilities of the Micronation creating a regional Autonomy taking as our model Cornwall which had to basically revive its identity
or Catalonia which is a strong model of regional autonomy.? Like a Romanic Mercia or wessex Movement?
A professor friend of mine is involved in the recreation of a Latin based English using Iberian Runes which used to exist in Britain.
Is anybody interested or does a group like this already exist if so when and where does it meet.?
Separate from this is anybody on the list interested in the Trojans and the reality of the Roman origins from them ? and does anybody have any interest in or knowledge of the Thracians and of the Thracian auxillaries and connections in Britain. ?
Fraternally.
Marcus Etruscus Arcadius.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] L. Sergius Australicus Opiniosus |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:51:21 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Lucio Sergio Australico Tribuno
Plebis S.P.D.
Thank you for your good job of reporting to the People. Do I
understand correctly that after the new and improved Gender
Edictum comes out you and your colleague intend to bring it
to a popular vote? Or has there been any change in your
plans?
You write:
(Does anybody know the latine for "The Opinionated?" I'm
thinking of
agnominating myself.)
Yes, in Latin it is *not* "opiniatus" as one might suppose,
but *opiniosus*. (That is like "peen", not like "pin" in the
true Latin pronunciation, by the way.) The Latin word does
not contain quite the feeling of having perhaps arbitrary or
stubborn opinions as does the English, but somewhat more
emphasises the abundance of one's opinions and the
possibility of their being baseless. But I think it is a
good equivalent, and I recommend it, unless your real
meaning is that you are stubborn or firm ;-) in the same few
opinions all the time (rather than having many), in which
case "obstinatus" - which in Latin can carry the good
meaning of "resolute" and "determined" as well as
"obstinate" and "stubborn" - might be preferred.
Vale!
-----------------------------------------
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus,
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae,
Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis Futurae
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
ICQ# 61698049
________________________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman religion and views on rape |
| From: |
Patricia Washburn Bradford <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:25:05 -0400 |
|
Dear Mr. Payne:
Your request for information was posted to the main e-mail list for Nova
Roma, in hopes that one or more of us might have answers to your
questions. Others may have far better answers than I, but here's my
information:
Roman religion centered around the family and the home. The father of a
family (paterfamilias) maintained a household altar (lararium) and
offered prayers there for the family. Farmers also offered prayers for
prosperous crops and livestock. Beyond this, the state religion of Rome
was a respected part of the city's life and government. Priesthoods were
held by men of high status, who also might be active in the city's
political life.
The basic gathering space for religious Romans was a temple, where
animals and other offerings (incense, wine, grain) were given to the
gods. There were no regular weekly services, but the temples also served
as meeting-places, and crowds gathered outside them on festival days.
Temples were usually located in the center of a town, surrounded by its
life and bustle.
Romans took rape seriously, particularly if the victim were a young girl,
for her value as a marriage partner was reduced if she were not chaste
(pudicitia). Much of this legal attitude can be attributed to notions of
daughters as valuable commodities rather than out of concern for the girl
herself, but the same can be said of women throughout the ancient world,
including those covered by the laws of the Old Testament.
Justinian, one of the best-known Roman jurists, writes: "The law punishes
the detestable wickedness of women who prostitute their chastity to the
lusts of others, but do not hold those liable who are violated by force
and against their will. And, moreover, it has very properly been decided
that their reputations are not lost, and that their marriage with others
should not be prohibited on this account."
If a husband or father caught a man raping his wife/daughter, it was
permitted to kill the man. Likewise, Roman law punished a man who raped a
woman for whom he served as guardian, or who raped a slave. As far as I
know, no classical society recognized the concept of spousal rape.
Two famous Roman stories illustrate a couple of attitudes toward rape:
Lucretia, in Livy's tale, is absolved of guilt after her husband's friend
takes her by force - but she is so virtuous that she kills herself
anyway. Romans were fond of telling stories like this to illustrate how
women weren't as virtuous as they used to be.
And in a story of ancient Rome, early Roman men, suffering from a rather
lopsided population, take women by force from the Sabine tribe. Livy,
writing about this in about the time of Christ, was retelling an event
that supposedly had happened eight centuries earlier, so it's hard to
believe he could have been working from solid facts, and this story must
be consigned to the category of legend. In his version, the girls are
understandably upset, but are won over by avowals of passion and promises
of material rewards, respectable marriage and children.
I hope this answers your questions! Please feel free to ask me any
further questions you might have.
Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
pjane@--------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: History of Legio I(I Germanica) Page Photos attached |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:49:01 -0500 |
|
Avete Omnes!
Venator scripsit:
I have posted the Title, Publication Information, Preface and Table of Contents pages to the
eGroups/Nova Roma files area in a Military History folder of the book "The Roman Legions" by H. M.
D. Parker
This is the source of the info I have sent Q. Sertorius.
In Amicus - Venii
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: History of Legio I(I Germanica) Page Photos attached |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 07:06:54 -0700 |
|
Thank you for that Venator! :)
Sulla Felix
Megas-Robinson wrote:
> Avete Omnes!
>
> Venator scripsit:
>
> I have posted the Title, Publication Information, Preface and Table of Contents pages to the
> eGroups/Nova Roma files area in a Military History folder of the book "The Roman Legions" by H. M.
> D. Parker
>
> This is the source of the info I have sent Q. Sertorius.
>
> In Amicus - Venii
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> STEALS AND DEALS! Cheapest prices on airfare, new cars, insurance, maids,
> contractors, collectibles, more. Get exactly what you want at the lowest
> price. New FREE service!
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Chat Room Error? |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 07:13:37 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes.
I have just gotten the following error when I tried to enter the
chatroom. Has anyone gotten this?
Error 500 Internal Server Error:
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@-------- and inform
them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done
that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error
log.
Thanks for any information.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] [Fwd: Ancient Rome] |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:29:13 EDT |
|
Salve,
I hope I'm not getting (too) paranoid in my old age, but this sounds like
he may be searching for material to support a hostile, slanderous
viewpoint against the Religio and the "heathens" of ancient Rome. I
wonder if we want to get involved with providing him ammunition that may
be turned against us.
Just a thought.
Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.
On 6/24/00 3:11 AM Lucius Cornelius Sulla (alexious@--------) wrote:
>Salvete Omnes...
>
>I just received this post and I was hoping someone might be able to
>provide an
>answer to him. I thank you very much before hand. :)
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Censor
>
>Youth Pastor Steve Payne wrote:
>
>> Dear Sir or Madam,
>>
>> I am looking for some information on ancient Rome and what there religious
>> practices are. I am also looking for information on the view of rape in
>> ancient Rome. If you can please help that would be great!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Steve Payne
>> Youth Minister/Founder
>> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries
>> http://www.gcym.org
>> Youthldrsteve@-------- <mailto:Youthldrsteve@-------->
>> <mailto:pastorsteve@-------->
>> voicemail 602-202-8654
>> Toll Free 1-800-222-6000 Ext. 1082777
>> Please follow the Instructions
>> ___________________________________________
>> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries is seeking to Team up with other
>> Ministries. If you would like to help us, please email us at
>> info@-------- <mailto:info@--------
in ullam rem ne properemus.
(Let's not rush into anything.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] [Fwd: Ancient Rome] |
| From: |
"StormWolf" <blakmice@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:33:23 -0000 |
|
>Salve,
>I hope I'm not getting (too) paranoid in my old age, but this sounds like
>he may be searching for material to support a hostile, slanderous
>viewpoint against the Religio and the "heathens" of ancient Rome. I
>wonder if we want to get involved with providing him ammunition that may
>be turned against us.
>Just a thought.
>Vale,
>L. Sergius Aust.
I wouldn't be too worried. Nothing posted was too drastically different from
old testament stuff anyway except for the personal altars... and besides...
if he really wanted ammo, he'd do like all those others who slander pagans
of any variety and make up his own stuff.
Vale,
L. Vatinius Lupus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] [Fwd: Ancient Rome] |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 08:04:14 -0700 |
|
Salve,
Lets be a bit openminded shall we. :) I think the response Patricia Cassia gave
was excellent and I hope that it would enlighten him. That is one of the many
goals we do have, is to help people who dont have a proper knowledge of Roman
Culture to have an opportunity to be exposed to true Roman Culture and Virtue. :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
LSergAust@-------- wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I hope I'm not getting (too) paranoid in my old age, but this sounds like
> he may be searching for material to support a hostile, slanderous
> viewpoint against the Religio and the "heathens" of ancient Rome. I
> wonder if we want to get involved with providing him ammunition that may
> be turned against us.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Sergius Aust.
>
> On 6/24/00 3:11 AM Lucius Cornelius Sulla (alexious@--------) wrote:
>
> >Salvete Omnes...
> >
> >I just received this post and I was hoping someone might be able to
> >provide an
> >answer to him. I thank you very much before hand. :)
> >
> >Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >Censor
> >
> >Youth Pastor Steve Payne wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Sir or Madam,
> >>
> >> I am looking for some information on ancient Rome and what there religious
> >> practices are. I am also looking for information on the view of rape in
> >> ancient Rome. If you can please help that would be great!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Steve Payne
> >> Youth Minister/Founder
> >> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries
> >> http://www.gcym.org
> >> Youthldrsteve@-------- <mailto:Youthldrsteve@-------->
> >> <mailto:pastorsteve@-------->
> >> voicemail 602-202-8654
> >> Toll Free 1-800-222-6000 Ext. 1082777
> >> Please follow the Instructions
> >> ___________________________________________
> >> Rainbow Christian Youth Ministries is seeking to Team up with other
> >> Ministries. If you would like to help us, please email us at
> >> info@-------- <mailto:info@--------
>
> in ullam rem ne properemus.
>
> (Let's not rush into anything.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/8/_/61050/_/961864159/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] L. Sergius Australicus Obstinatus |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:07:54 EDT |
|
On 6/24/00 7:51 AM M. Apollonius Formosanus (bvm3@--------) wrote:
>M. Apollonius Formosanus Lucio Sergio Australico Tribuno
>Plebis S.P.D.
>
>Thank you for your good job of reporting to the People. Do I
>understand correctly that after the new and improved Gender
>Edictum comes out you and your colleague intend to bring it
>to a popular vote? Or has there been any change in your
>plans?
Thank you for the praise, and I'm glad you asked that question. (Sound
like a political candidate, don't I?)
I have no indication of plans from my colleague Gn Tarquinius Caesar, but
judging from his previous pronouncements on these issues, I would be
greatly surprised if he had any interest in bringing it to a popular vote.
As to my own intentions: I was originally willing to present L. Marius
Fimbria's complaint to the Comitia Plebis Tributa, but she chose not to
do so. Since no other citizen ever asked to have the matter brought
before the comitia, I saw no point in pursuing that avenue on my own.
After all, there would have to be extensive interest among the citizens
in order to have an effective vote on the matter, and it was not that
clear that that many people were aroused by the issue. Besides that,
although the Comitia Plebis Tributa could make a law (a plebiscite)
contrary to the edict, it would reflect only the voice of the plebians.
As I have said several times previously, I think the assembly of all the
centuries, which includes all of us, should vote on the matter. But only
a Consul or a Praetor can convene that assembly.
Since then, we've had the matter presented to the Senate for debate, with
little interest shown there and the matter referred back to the Censores.
Now we are about to have a new edict issued, after which the original
"gender edict" is supposed to be withdrawn.
In the meantime, we have had yet another resignation-in-a-snit which has
left us without the two Rogatores we need in order to have any kind of a
vote of the citizens on anything. I'm not certain that we could even hold
a Comitia vote right now, at least until a new Rogator is chosen. I hope
this time they will be someone who won't back out of their _sworn_
responsibilities the first time things don't suit them.
My feeling at this point is that this whole issue of names and gender has
been talked to death. More than anything else, it has convinced me that
unless more citizens get actively involved in the business of Nova Roman
politics, you can kiss the "republic" aspect of Nova Roma good-bye.
_Some_ of your current magistrates have already made it clear that they
aren't interested in "the population" having an active part in government
decisions, and they have conducted themselves like little tin-pot
Caesars, issuing imperial commands and denunciations while asserting that
their importance and their "dignitas" puts them above the reproach of,
for instance, a "mere Tribune." Some of this goes on in private, so most
of you won't know everything to which I am referring.
As I have said in the past, what Nova Roma will become will be determined
by what we all make of it. Get involved or lose it. A wise man once said
"A people deserves its government" and if you don't all take an active
part, you'll deserve what you get as far as I'm concerned. Politics is a
dirty job, but somebody's got to do it, and if you want it clean, you'd
better be willing to do it yourselves.
The _original_ revival of the Roman republic was established a little
over two hundred years ago. It is called the United States of America. As
some of you may know, its citizens have already allowed it to largely
degenerate into an oligarchy run by the wealthy and the well-connected,
for their own sakes and glory and financial rewards. The populace as a
whole let that happen by leaving the dirty business of politics to the
career politicians who wanted to do it.
"Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
end of lecture
>
>You write:
>(Does anybody know the latine for "The Opinionated?" I'm
>thinking of
>agnominating myself.)
>
>Yes, in Latin it is *not* "opiniatus" as one might suppose,
>but *opiniosus*. (That is like "peen", not like "pin" in the
>true Latin pronunciation, by the way.) The Latin word does
>not contain quite the feeling of having perhaps arbitrary or
>stubborn opinions as does the English, but somewhat more
>emphasises the abundance of one's opinions and the
>possibility of their being baseless. But I think it is a
>good equivalent, and I recommend it, unless your real
>meaning is that you are stubborn or firm ;-) in the same few
>opinions all the time (rather than having many), in which
>case "obstinatus" - which in Latin can carry the good
>meaning of "resolute" and "determined" as well as
>"obstinate" and "stubborn" - might be preferred.
Thanks. I think "Obstinatus" may be what I'm looking for. Someone else
suggested "Sententiosus" but that doesn't feel right. I think resolute
and firm and maybe sometimes obnoxiously so is what I want to say.
("Maybe?" "Sometimes?" I hear you all thinking out there! ;-) )
BTW, the new names edict seeks to limit your choice to use certain
agnomina. You can't be "great" unless The Great decide you are "great."
Get the picture?
My old general Gnaeus Pompeius made himself "great" as a teenager. He'd
be out of luck in Nova Roma. (More likely certain Nova Roman magistrates
would find themselves examining their own entrails -- Gnaeus Pompeius
once warned some magistrates "Stop quoting laws to us -- we carry
swords." I wonder if Janet Reno is related to him.....)
"So it goes....."
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
Tribunus Plebis
>
>Vale!
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Marcus Apollonius Formosanus,
>Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae,
>Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis Futurae
>Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
>ICQ# 61698049
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]Concerning Magnus |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:59:11 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/24/2000 11:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
LSergAust@-------- writes:
<< My old general Gnaeus Pompeius made himself "great" as a teenager. He'd
be out of luck in Nova Roma. >>
Salvete
Well, since both Plutarch and Appian make it pretty clear that the cognomen
was a mocking one, the Censors probably let him keep it for humorous reasons.
Let's face it, Magnus pretty much comes off as buffoon in Roman history. He
lets himself be manipulated by L. Cornelius Sulla, he lets Sertorius runs
rings around him in Spain, he crushes the rements of the Spartician rebellion
after Crassius has done all the work, but claims the glory, he does clean up
the Mare Nostrum of piracy, using a enlightened policy, but historians today
question if he adopted that policy from someone else, it is so out of
charactor for him. He can't even rally the people of Italy against Caesar,
he flees to Greece, out maneuvers Caesar's attempt to bring him to battle,
until Pharsalus, were though he outnumbers Caesar by nearly two to one, he
loses decisively.
Mommsen sums him up quite well: "A good officer, but otherwise of mediocre
gifts of intellect and heart, fate had with superhuman constancy for thirty
years allowed him to solve all brilliant and toiless tasks; permitted him to
pluck all laurels planted and fostered by others; had presented to him all
the conditions requisite for optaining the supreme power -- only in order to
exhibit in his person an example of spurious greatness to which history would
know no parallel. His Character was not up to the challenge..." Interesting
you should use him as your model. He was never opinionated
Valete
Q. Fabius
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]Concerning Magnus |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:09:51 EDT |
|
Salve Consul,
I agree with Mommsen's assessment. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus was ultimately
a loser. He was also callously brutal, although that was not unusual in
his time and so should perhaps not be held too strongly against him. He
has never been my "model." I wonder what his father thought of him -- I
suspect he spent much of his life trying to imitate his old man, Strabo.
I have more respect for G. Iulius Caesar.
There is, however, something of chilling honesty to be appreciated in
Pompeius' reply to the city magistrates in Syracuse (was it?).
Vale,
L. Sergius Aust.
On 6/24/00 1:59 PM Quintus Fabius Maximus (sfp55@--------) wrote:
>In a message dated 6/24/2000 11:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>LSergAust@-------- writes:
>
><< My old general Gnaeus Pompeius made himself "great" as a teenager. He'd
> be out of luck in Nova Roma. >>
>Salvete
>Well, since both Plutarch and Appian make it pretty clear that the cognomen
>was a mocking one, the Censors probably let him keep it for humorous
>reasons.
> Let's face it, Magnus pretty much comes off as buffoon in Roman history.
>He
>lets himself be manipulated by L. Cornelius Sulla, he lets Sertorius runs
>rings around him in Spain, he crushes the rements of the Spartician
>rebellion
>after Crassius has done all the work, but claims the glory, he does clean up
>the Mare Nostrum of piracy, using a enlightened policy, but historians today
>question if he adopted that policy from someone else, it is so out of
>charactor for him. He can't even rally the people of Italy against Caesar,
>he flees to Greece, out maneuvers Caesar's attempt to bring him to battle,
>until Pharsalus, were though he outnumbers Caesar by nearly two to one, he
>loses decisively.
>Mommsen sums him up quite well: "A good officer, but otherwise of mediocre
>gifts of intellect and heart, fate had with superhuman constancy for thirty
>years allowed him to solve all brilliant and toiless tasks; permitted him to
>pluck all laurels planted and fostered by others; had presented to him all
>the conditions requisite for optaining the supreme power -- only in order to
>exhibit in his person an example of spurious greatness to which history
>would
>know no parallel. His Character was not up to the challenge..."
>Interesting
>you should use him as your model. He was never opinionated
>Valete
>Q. Fabius
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]Concerning Magnus |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:44:20 GMT |
|
Salvete, Tribune L Sergius Australicus et Consul Q. Fabius Maximus:
>From: LSergAust@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma]Concerning Magnus
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 15:09:51 EDT
>
>Salve Consul,
>
>I agree with Mommsen's assessment. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus was ultimately
>a loser. He was also callously brutal, although that was not unusual in
>his time and so should perhaps not be held too strongly against him. He
>has never been my "model." I wonder what his father thought of him -- I
>suspect he spent much of his life trying to imitate his old man, Strabo.
RESPONDEO FROM POMPEIA ..
*************but that is Mommsen...other historians, and Plutarch is one of
them, cut Pompeius Magnus a bit more slack....and..he was cognomated Magnus
(Plutarch et al) by Sulla; he didn't give himself this title.***********
G. Pompeius Strabo I agree, was relentlessly cruel. I have not read of
anything positive about this person. Upon the seige of Asculum in Picenum,
Italy near the end of the Social War, about 89 BCE, he flogged and beheaded
all officers in the city...and "kicked" the women and children out of the
city, with nothing but what they wore.
I am not sure if we can call G. Pompeius Magnus a man of quite that degree
of cruelty. He had his moments of benevolvence. After his raid of the
pirates of the Mediterranian, he resettled these pirates into land farms, or
atleast most of them, instead of crucifying them.
He reorganized the east after the defeat of Mithadrades (spelling) VI
Eupator with negotiation and treaty, before employing the sword.
Magnus was very cruel with the Marian factions, earning him the title of
Carnifex (butcher) when he was about 20. He cruelly executed those
affiliated with Gaius Marius...... Perhaps the fact that his father
Strabo's dead body was dragged through the streets of Rome during the seige
of Rome against Marius by Strabo and Sulla's factions. (about 87BCE)
If I were a young Roman boy, such a situation would upset me to the point
where I would want vengeance, for right or for wrong.*********
>I have more respect for G. Iulius Caesar.
********And Augustus Caesar, great in many ways as he was, would have it
so. He would not want you to believe anything good about Caesar's opponent,
or any other Republican...*****************
************It was Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus who restored power to the Plebs
during his first Consulship. Sulla had taken it away while he was dictator,
increasing the Senate and choking the power of the Tribunes
:)********************
>There is, however, something of chilling honesty to be appreciated in
>Pompeius' reply to the city magistrates in Syracuse (was it?).
Valete all,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo (Strabo after my floppy right eye and the
historian/geographer Strabo)!!!
>Vale,
>
>L. Sergius Aust.
>
>On 6/24/00 1:59 PM Quintus Fabius Maximus (sfp55@--------) wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 6/24/2000 11:08:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >LSergAust@-------- writes:
> >
> ><< My old general Gnaeus Pompeius made himself "great" as a teenager.
>He'd
> > be out of luck in Nova Roma. >>
> >Salvete
> >Well, since both Plutarch and Appian make it pretty clear that the
>cognomen
> >was a mocking one, the Censors probably let him keep it for humorous
> >reasons.
> > Let's face it, Magnus pretty much comes off as buffoon in Roman history.
> >He
> >lets himself be manipulated by L. Cornelius Sulla, he lets Sertorius runs
> >rings around him in Spain, he crushes the rements of the Spartician
> >rebellion
> >after Crassius has done all the work, but claims the glory, he does clean
>up
> >the Mare Nostrum of piracy, using a enlightened policy, but historians
>today
> >question if he adopted that policy from someone else, it is so out of
> >charactor for him. He can't even rally the people of Italy against
>Caesar,
> >he flees to Greece, out maneuvers Caesar's attempt to bring him to
>battle,
> >until Pharsalus, were though he outnumbers Caesar by nearly two to one,
>he
> >loses decisively.
> >Mommsen sums him up quite well: "A good officer, but otherwise of
>mediocre
> >gifts of intellect and heart, fate had with superhuman constancy for
>thirty
> >years allowed him to solve all brilliant and toiless tasks; permitted him
>to
> >pluck all laurels planted and fostered by others; had presented to him
>all
> >the conditions requisite for optaining the supreme power -- only in order
>to
> >exhibit in his person an example of spurious greatness to which history
> >would
> >know no parallel. His Character was not up to the challenge..."
> >Interesting
> >you should use him as your model. He was never opinionated
> >Valete
> >Q. Fabius
>
>
>certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
>(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Patres Conscripti |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 01:16:14 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Marco Attilio Regulo S.P.D.
[English translation below]
Il Suoi messaggi sulla questione dell’origine e originale
significato dell’espressione "Patres (et) Conscripti" sono
molto interessante, ed io vorrei fare tre domande a Lei:
1) Quali sono le fonti della nostra conoscenza degli
"speciali" novi senatori nel tempo di Servius Tullius? (So
che c’č una menzione in Zonaras (VII.9), ma non ho il
testo.)
2) Il contemporaneo nome delle questi senatori era
"Conscripti"? Lo sappiamo?
3) C’č ben definita prova del uso dell’espressione "Patres
(et) Conscripti" nel periodo regio? Se c’č, questo
esattamente?
Tante grazie in anticipo per la Sua benigna risposta.
Vale!
[English Translation]
Your messages on the question of the origin of the
expression "Patres (et) Conscripti are very interesting, and
I would like to put three questions to you:
1) What are our sources of iur knowledge of the
"special"senators of the time of Servius Tullius? (I know
there is a mention in Zonaras (VII.9), but I do not have the
text.)
2) Was the contemporary name of these senators "Conscripti"?
Do we know?
3) Is there definite proof of the use of the expression
"Patres (et) Conscripti" in the regal period? If there is,
what exactly?
Thank you very much in advance for your kind response.
--
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus,
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae,
Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis Futurae
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
ICQ# 61698049
________________________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
________________________________________________________
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