| Subject: |
[novaroma] Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
Gaius Pontius <elokk@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:42:06 -0700 |
|
Salve all! My name is Gaius Pontius and I am a new member of Nova Roma. I
thought I should introduce myself and I hope this is an acceptable outlet
for doing so. In this email I will discuss myself, my interests, what I
want from Nova Roma and what I can offer to the glory of the Republic.
I was born in Portland Oregon in the United States of America. I lived
there for 10 years, and then moved to Omaha Nebraska. I now live in
Seattle Washington and Have been here for the past 9 years; I am 24 years
old. I have traveled to every state in the US besides Alaska and
Hawaii. In addition, I have been to Canada and Mexico. I am very
interested in other cultures and I am going to be traveling to other
countries as soon as I possess the financial means to do so.
My intellectual interests range widely. I have come up with a small list
of topics I am interested in, here it is:
History
Science
Magick
Philosophy
Military
Politics
Cultures around the world
Languages, current and ancient
That is all I could think of off the top of my head; there are many more
that did not come to me. I hope that I will be able to learn as well as
teach here in Nova Roma.
Essentially what interested me in Nova Roma was the Republic aspect. I
have always thought that the Roman Republic should be resurrected and I am
glad to see others agree. I intend on participating in the political
aspect of Nova Roma. I have quite a few ideas I think we could easily
implement and I think that we have a bright future ahead of us.
I am interested in meeting as many of you as possible and I hope that we
can come up with many good topics for debate and learning.
Vale!
Gaius Pontius Corvus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Latin Right Here! |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:51:00 -0000 |
|
This is a wonderful idea! Thank you! Would you consider posting some
information about the usage regarding feminine names?
Patricia Cassia
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Latin Right Here! |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:08:49 -0500 |
|
24 June 2000
Salve
Thank you for this opportunity to start my study of Latin. I have always
wanted to learn the language, but have not felt comfortable enough till now.
I will eagerly await your next installment.
Quintus Sertorius
Citizen
quintus-sertorius@--------
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:32:41 -0500 |
|
Salve Gaius Pontius:
Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator scripsit:
I bid the welcome to the New City. You find us a fractious and warm hearted lot. Please post any
information you find useful to the list. If it's a big post, save it as a text ile and post it in
the Nova Roma file area at eGroups.
Jump right in, express your opinion, if you have questions - ask, also, reading the archives at
eGroups for this list will fill in a lot of gaps in what may seem arcane discussions on various
themes.
Again, welcome!
Vale et Bona Fortuna - P. Ullerius Venator,
Quaestor et Dominus Sodalis Coq. et Coq.
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Pastor S.Payne |
| From: |
"M G" <fresco@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:57:58 +0300 |
|
Perhaps Youth Pastor Steve Payne interested in ancient Rome's Rape customs
could be interested in completing his study of ancient rape comparing the
extraordinary legend of the "Rape of the Sabines,
(just a story of human extraordinary behaviour, not recommended by any pagan
god) with the following:
" Top 14 Biblical Ways to Get a Wife" .
In the case nr. 5 of Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)
the story is exactly like in the Rape of the Sabines,
(except that the Israelites provoked themselves through
genocide the extraordinary scarsity of women)
It is to be noted that some of the 14 following cases are just stories,
while others are carried on following God's indications.
Marcus Prometheus
-------------------------------------------------------
The Top 14 Biblical Ways to Get a Wife
1. Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim
her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours. - (Deuteronomy
21:11-13)
2. Find a prostitute and marry her. - (Hosea 1:1-3)
3. Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock.-
Moses (Ex 2:16-21)
4. Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. Boaz
(Ruth 4:5-10)
5. Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and
carry her off to be your wife. - Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)
6. Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost
you.- Adam (Gen 2:19-24)
7. Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get
tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the
woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years
of toil for a wife. - Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)
8. Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his
daughter for a wife - David (I Samuel 18:27)
9. Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll
definitely find someone. (It's all relative, of course.) - Cain (Genesis
4:16-17)
10. Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. -
Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)
11. When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have
seen a ... woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your
decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me." - Samson
(Judges 14:1-3)
12. Kill any husband and take HIS wife (Prepare to lose four sons,
though). - David (2 Samuel 11)
13. Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good
idea; it's the law.) - Onana and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in
Ruth)
14. Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. -
Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)
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|
| Subject: |
Old T. Pickups, was Re: [novaroma] Pastor S.Payne |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:07:47 -0500 |
|
Ave Marcus Prometheus,
Venii hic:
Thou art a Wag and a Raconteur! A nicely researched piece of humor, like the letter to Dr. Laura I
saw.
In Felicitas - Venii
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
"Aeternia Draconia" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:10:06 -0000 |
|
---Welcome!!
It's always nice to have a new citizen. I've noticed in your list of
interests you listed Philosophy. Does that include poetry? I just
can't help but ask I just started my new list. Well anyway welcome to
Nova Roma and I look forward of seeing more of your future posts.
Vale
Aeternia Draconia
In novaroma@--------, Gaius Pontius <elokk@u...> wrote:
> Salve all! My name is Gaius Pontius and I am a new member of Nova
Roma. I
> thought I should introduce myself and I hope this is an acceptable
outlet
> for doing so. In this email I will discuss myself, my interests,
what I
> want from Nova Roma and what I can offer to the glory of the
Republic.
>
> I was born in Portland Oregon in the United States of America. I
lived
> there for 10 years, and then moved to Omaha Nebraska. I now live
in
> Seattle Washington and Have been here for the past 9 years; I am 24
years
> old. I have traveled to every state in the US besides Alaska and
> Hawaii. In addition, I have been to Canada and Mexico. I am very
> interested in other cultures and I am going to be traveling to
other
> countries as soon as I possess the financial means to do so.
>
> My intellectual interests range widely. I have come up with a
small list
> of topics I am interested in, here it is:
>
> History
> Science
> Magick
> Philosophy
> Military
> Politics
> Cultures around the world
> Languages, current and ancient
>
> That is all I could think of off the top of my head; there are many
more
> that did not come to me. I hope that I will be able to learn as
well as
> teach here in Nova Roma.
>
> Essentially what interested me in Nova Roma was the Republic
aspect. I
> have always thought that the Roman Republic should be resurrected
and I am
> glad to see others agree. I intend on participating in the
political
> aspect of Nova Roma. I have quite a few ideas I think we could
easily
> implement and I think that we have a bright future ahead of us.
>
> I am interested in meeting as many of you as possible and I hope
that we
> can come up with many good topics for debate and learning.
>
> Vale!
> Gaius Pontius Corvus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
"Aeternia Draconia" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:16:14 -0000 |
|
---Salve Venator!!
Well I'd never thought I would see you again, but I am VERY glad to
see you! Ok this is the point where you wonder who is this crazy
child. Ok to refresh the memory do you remember a little wanderer
named Avalonia, almost two years later and a bunch of name changes
I'm still here. You know its funny I was asking different civies what
had happened to you, so I'm very relieved to see that you're still
around. I hope to hear more from you soon.
Vale
Aeternia Draconia
In novaroma@--------, Megas-Robinson <amgunn@i...> wrote:
> Salve Gaius Pontius:
>
> Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator scripsit:
>
> I bid the welcome to the New City. You find us a fractious and
warm hearted lot. Please post any
> information you find useful to the list. If it's a big post, save
it as a text ile and post it in
> the Nova Roma file area at eGroups.
>
> Jump right in, express your opinion, if you have questions - ask,
also, reading the archives at
> eGroups for this list will fill in a lot of gaps in what may seem
arcane discussions on various
> themes.
>
> Again, welcome!
>
> Vale et Bona Fortuna - P. Ullerius Venator,
> Quaestor et Dominus Sodalis Coq. et Coq.
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:12:12 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Gaius Pontus Corvus;
Welcome, to Nova Roma. Portland, Oregon is what I consider to be my
"hometown." I lived there off and on (my father was a construction man)
for a total of 7-8 years, far more than any other location. I just
recently visited there again and took a cruise up the Columbia
terminating 70 mile up into "Hell's Canyon" on the Snake River (major
tributary to the Columbia).
Your interests indicate that you may be interested in the Military
Sodalitas (now before the Senate to consider some expansion, or to the
newly created Outreach Sodalitas for making others aware of Nova Roma.
Welcome to Nova Roma, and become a part of our micronation in whatever
you role you percieve fits your interests and talents.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:30:42 -0500 |
|
Ave Aeternia Draconia!
Venii scripsit:
Aeternia Draconia wrote:
>
> ---Salve Venator!!
>
> Well I'd never thought I would see you again, but I am VERY glad to
> see you! Ok this is the point where you wonder who is this crazy
> child. Ok to refresh the memory do you remember a little wanderer
> named Avalonia, almost two years later and a bunch of name changes
> I'm still here. You know its funny I was asking different civies what
> had happened to you, so I'm very relieved to see that you're still
> around. I hope to hear more from you soon.
>
> Vale
> Aeternia Draconia
>
I thank thee kindly for the concern about my well being. Ye, I do remember.
I've been going through a time of severe introspection. But, I had a Eureka moment this morning
which clarified things for me.
So, I'm back, I'm rested and ready to fully serve again.
In Amicus - venii
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Latin Right Here! |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:45:01 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, M.A. Formosanus;
Good idea! I am terrible at language study (almost failed out of
college over the whole miserable mess) but I learned something from your
lesson today, and I look forward to another installment. I may even be
able to graduate to the two Latin Primers I have gathering dust in my
library.
Good Beginning!!! Keep It up!!!
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Provincia Germania - Announcement by the Propraetor |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:21:18 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve; Praetor R. Martius, Provincia Germania;
For my part Praetor Martius you have my personal congratulations to both
yourself and to your Legatus Germinae, Caius Flavius Diocletianus. I am
most pleased to see these improvements in your province and the obvious
amount of attention to your duties. Your efforts are showing the way
for all Provincial Praetors, and I congratulate you.
In my congratulations, I would also add a suggestion. Not all
Provincial Praetors may have the excellent assistance that you enjoy or
perhaps the technical expertise or hardware necessary to duplicate all
your efforts. I would ask that with your laudable success, you give
some thought to the "export" of some of your expertise and energy for
the benefit of the whole of Nova Roma.
I thank you for your efforts on the part of Nova Roma and myself.
Valete, Respectfully
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Citizen Participation |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:52:21 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salve, Citizens;
In response to the excellent message aired by Citizen Formosanus, let me
respond from my own view with the following:
My view of the Citizens of Nova Roma. as a body, is one of great respect
and appreciation. It is after all, this body who have provided me with
the opportunity to set forth a few ideas and to set my efforts to the
building of a micronation.
There are those within that body who have done great things for Nova
Roma and my appreciation for thier efforts is genuine and forthcoming.
Them I applaud. long and loud, asking that they continue their good
work.
There are those who are new to NR and are learning the roes so to speak
and to those I bid a most hearty welcome. There are still other who
prefer t listen quietly and not partake in discussion a great deal and
to those I say, that is your right to do so, and whe you are ready, I am
willing to listen.
However, one of the problems that I as a senior magistrate face daily is
the individual who does not understand, or does not wish to understand
the limitations of time, effort and of practical application of the laws
which govern this republic. I have been accused of not calling the
Senate, when there was no clear favorable augury or clear period for
debate and voting of that August Body (refer to the NR Calenadar). I
have been accused of failure to take action because one person wants
something done, with little or no consideration regarding what the
majority wants. The minority has complained because their rights are
not protected -- even though ther votes are listed and faithfully
recorded and their views are considered.
There are those who bitterly complain, but who when approached to make
their complaints into an application to the Senate, suddemly disappear,
only to later reappear with the same loud and vocal complaint, but no
effort to rectify it or lay it to rest. There are those who ask that
their ideas be immediately implemented, but who do nothing to provide a
basic document to present to any authoratative body in orer to bring the
idea to fruitation. Finally there are those who go from Magistrate to
Magistrate over the long term bringng up the same problem until finally
someone not familar with the history of the situation finally provides
the person what he or she wants.
The Constitution and the Laws of Nova Roma are on the website for all to
read. Before you complain bitterly, consider what can actually be done.
Neither I nor my Consular Colleague can make a law, nor can we answer
every question, and my Edicts have been limited to appointing my Staff,
simply because, in my view, it is not wise to rely heavily upon too
many Edicts. Citizens begin to get nervous living with Edict after
Edict even if they are well-intentioned. When you have considered the
above, then gain support for your view, so that your view is not a
single one crying in the wilderness, but rather one who has the backing
of many. I am often impressed by an idea that is floated and it usually
ends up in the idea file, but unless I or my staff have the leisure to
review, discuss, evaluate, and put something together that is suitable
for Consular review it goes nowhere, and if you will ask my staff, there
has not been a great deal of extra time lately (Grin :-)!!!).
It is certainly well known among those who are Magistartes that all
Citizens do not have the time and resources to serve in senior positons,
but the corallary to that is if the position goes unfilled, realize that
the Magistrate(s) is not able to do double his/her work because someone
cannot or will not fill the vacant position.
Doing the work of assistants and assensai is exremely important, because
in most of my Consular efforts it is my Staff who research questions,
provide answers, give opinions, keep me up to date on the various
aspects of Nova Roma which I simply do not have the time to do myself,
and in doing so grow to learn a great deal about how things really work
within your micronation. Do you suppose for one moment that I would go
against a strong recommendation from a trusted staffer, unless I had an
iron-clad reason??? Who is that staffer?? Well, it is someone whom I
selected from the Onelist who seemed to be able to operate in accordance
with the Roman Virtues and had balance in thier views. Pretty heavy
qualifications wouldn't you say??
In the Consular files there is an idea list which is added to
consistantly and forwarded to me each month for my review. Some of the
ideas for items to be placed before the Senate come from that list, from
you the citizens, that my staff must research, discuss and work into a
suitable application. Why--well because the citizen responsible for the
idea figured that "Somebody Else" would do that. Well they do, but it
takes time and effort, and I believe I have said this before--for every
"idea man" I can use four hard working staffers just to keep up. Since
a staff must be streamlined and be able to share ideas and consult
together in a minimal period of time, a large and bulky staff doesn't
always work that well either.
In addition to being a Magistrate I am also a Paterfamilias, and the
Leader of two Sodalitas. So my time is limited, as is the time of most
other Magistrates and of most citizens. Some people have a great deal
of time to spend here in Nova Roma and can easily take on several
positions / resposibilities, but most have additional interests as well.
I also have a list of other activities outside NR which are valuable and
a wife or loved one who needs my attentions as well, just as most of you
do. Were it not for those thoughtful citizens who have assisted me in
my staff work, I should not have been able to do a fraction of what I
do, and four of my five person staff have risen by thier own efforts to
positions of prominance within Nova Roma.
No, my friends, I do not view the Citizens of Nova Roma as silly,
capricious or foolish individuals. Not at all---but there are on
occasions those who individually demonstrate an inability to educate
themslves before they speak. to use unacceptable language on this net,
to engage in insulting and improper behavior, and mae foolish and
erroneus accusations based on little ore than thier own frustrations.
Those it is my function to contact, discuss, ministrate with and warn,
although to a lesser degree now that we have a Onelist Moderator, which
was by the way, a request of the Citizens. It is these individuals that
I perhaps may be percieved to have little sympathy or patience with.
In closing , it must be admitted that I too have made many mistakes.
That is the part of me that is human and also distinctly Roman in
nature. I try very hard not to repeat the mistakes and to learn from
them. I am often viewed as stubborn, intractable and bull-headed--I
prefer to think of it as doing my job for the electorate. I am
sometimes seen as persistant, vocal and repetitive, but I prefer to see
it as my determined push for those I represent. I read over the Roman
Virtues wekly and always dispair of ever mastering them. In my defense
I can only say that the person who does nothing is very unlikely to make
an error, while those who labor long will always have difficult
decisions and insufficient information, time and insight to make a good
decision, but they must be made regardless, and from that mix, mistakes
often occur. However, deliberate hateful unwarranted action is not the
intent here, nor have I found it to be apparent in great quanities.
Valete, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Salve, Im new! |
| From: |
"Aeternia Draconia" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:17:13 -0000 |
|
--- Salve!
May I be the first to welcome you back then. Oh by the way swing by
the tavern if you can I'll be in there!
Vale
Aeternia Draconia
In novaroma@--------, Megas-Robinson <amgunn@i...> wrote:
> Ave Aeternia Draconia!
>
> Venii scripsit:
>
> Aeternia Draconia wrote:
> >
> > ---Salve Venator!!
> >
> > Well I'd never thought I would see you again, but I am VERY glad
to
> > see you! Ok this is the point where you wonder who is this crazy
> > child. Ok to refresh the memory do you remember a little wanderer
> > named Avalonia, almost two years later and a bunch of name changes
> > I'm still here. You know its funny I was asking different civies
what
> > had happened to you, so I'm very relieved to see that you're still
> > around. I hope to hear more from you soon.
> >
> > Vale
> > Aeternia Draconia
> >
>
> I thank thee kindly for the concern about my well being. Ye, I do
remember.
>
> I've been going through a time of severe introspection. But, I had
a Eureka moment this morning
> which clarified things for me.
>
> So, I'm back, I'm rested and ready to fully serve again.
>
> In Amicus - venii
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN: Addition to the Camenaeum - Festus' literary work "The Scroll" |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:48:08 +0100 |
|
Salvete
"The Scroll" by Gaius Lupinius Festus is now part of the Camenaeum. Please
go to
http://www.novaroma.org/camenaeum/thescroll.htm
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Curator Araneae
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] anyone from the Albany NY area... |
| From: |
"Kryn Miner" <kminer_rsg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:27:36 EDT |
|
Salve good people of NR.
I was wondering if there is anyone in the Albany NY area or am I the only
one??
If there is please drop me a note. I would love to meet my fellow NR'ers.
Vale,
Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus
Praefectus Legionis, Legio VI
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:39:38 EDT |
|
Salvete M. M. Audens, P. Cassia, M. A. Formosanus, C. F. Diocletianus, et
alii,
I am happy to see a discussion of citizen participation here. I might
wish there were more citizens participating in the discussion, but
mailing lists tend to get slow in the Summer.
I must respond to the occasionally repeated error that Nova Roma is not a
democracy. It is designed as a representative democracy, which is the
only kind that has ever proven practical in the real world. The ideal
democracy typified by the popular notion of Athenian democracy has
rarely, if ever, existed in any nation state. It didn't exist in Athens,
unless you count only a small proportion of free, male citizens as the
entire population of the city.
We elect magistrates to carry out the will of the people, guided by the
will of the gods and by the tempering influences of tradition, law, and
the wise counsel of those august citizens designated as Senators. The
power to make laws is vested in the citizens voting in their tribes and
centuries. The Senate cannot make laws. Magistrates cannot make laws.
Only a legally appointed dictator in time of emergency can issue edicts
that override laws created by the people in their comitiae. Nova Roma
_is_ a democracy. On paper.
Whether Nova Roma will operate as a democracy in actuality will be
determined by "citizen participation." If the citizens are not very much
more active than they have been, Nova Roma will be ruled by magisterial
edicts. Who needs that? Who in their right mind would choose to become a
citizen of a nation in which they would have no effective voice?
Valete,
L. Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:01:24 +0100 |
|
Salvete Tribune L. Sergi Australice Obstinate
>I must respond to the occasionally repeated error that Nova Roma is not a
>democracy. It is designed as a representative democracy, which is the
>only kind that has ever proven practical in the real world. The ideal
>democracy typified by the popular notion of Athenian democracy has
>rarely, if ever, existed in any nation state. It didn't exist in Athens,
>unless you count only a small proportion of free, male citizens as the
>entire population of the city. ETC.
In fact I am one of those who often incur in that error, not because of
ignorance but in order to stress the difference between the Roman, Athenian
and contemporary standard Democracy. I must confess that the words
"Respublica" and "Democratia" (is it well spelled in Greek?) mean the same
respectively in Latin and Greek:
- Res (government, rule) + Publica (of the people)
- Demos (people) + Cratia (Government)
So, Australicus is indeed right. A greek citizen would surely call
"Democratia" to the Roman Respublica.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator et Magistratus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:13:19 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes
I too am pleased that there is a discussion about citizen participation! It
is my true hope that more citizens take a more active involvement in every
avenue of Nova Roman Life. However, I must correct an error of our Tribune
of the Plebs. We are most definately a Republic. As stated in the Preamble
of the Constitution,
"As the spiritual heir to the ancient Roman Republic and Empire, Nova Roma
shall endeavor to exist, in all manners practical and acceptable, as the
modern restoration of the ancient Roman Republic."
To me this means that we are trying to recreate and restore the traditional
way the government was done in ancient Rome. Obviously we have made some
changes to the way the government is done. Such as having a written
Constitution, modifying various political positions and such. But, when it
come to analyzing what type of government we have it is truly a Republic. I
believe that we are a true Republic, unlike the United States version of a
Representative Democracy because of this primary reason. Our Senate is very
different, once you are a Senator, you do NOT have to run for reelection, it
is a lifetime position. In the United States, Senators and Representatives
have to continually run for reelection and that brings the democracry tones
back into an otherwise truly Republican system.
Now, some people have claimed that there are Oligarchial elements to the
present system of government. I am honestly surprised at that. Given last
year when we had only 5 Senators. The Senate alone has grown over 300%!
Please citizens, go back to the archieves at www.egroups.com and compare Nova
Roma last year to this year and see just how much improvement has been
completed. Compare the old Constitution to the one currently in affect.
Once you analyze the differences, now look at the magistrates. See what they
are trying to accomplish and why they are doing what they are doing. Ask
them. If you disagree with what they are doing. Get involved, there is
NOTHING preventing any citizen from political, religious or social
involvement. But, if you are going to complain about magisterial
indifference, then get involved and try to make NR in an image that suites
you. And, not to seek your sympathy, but if you think you can do a better
job, then run for the office and get elected. See exactly what its like.
Most of the political positions in Nova Roma are alot of hard work with alot
of issues and very little in terms of reward execpt for self-fulfillment.
As a magistrate in Nova Roma, my personal beliefs are to help the Republic
grow. By my devotion of time and effort, I am doing what I can to help guide
non-citizens to a point when they are active and accepted members in Nova
Roma. This means answering questions, helping them complete the application
process and giving them a heads up in various avenues they can participate in
Nova Roma. When we get a new applicant approved I am extremely happy.
Because that is another potential citizen who might one day be a future
Pontiff, Consul or Senator. Maybe that individual might create a Sodalias?
But, without spending time with that person, helping them by answering their
questions or concerns, that might not happen. As a citizen you have a civic
duty to fulfill your beliefs of what a citizen is. If that means that you
are only interested in the Religio, thats fine. But, as a citizen, you have
a right to participate! If you are going to complain that NR isnt going in
the direction you want it too, then you must use your right to participate in
a way to help foster the change you want.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
LSergAust@-------- wrote:
> Salvete M. M. Audens, P. Cassia, M. A. Formosanus, C. F. Diocletianus, et
> alii,
>
> I am happy to see a discussion of citizen participation here. I might
> wish there were more citizens participating in the discussion, but
> mailing lists tend to get slow in the Summer.
>
> I must respond to the occasionally repeated error that Nova Roma is not a
> democracy. It is designed as a representative democracy, which is the
> only kind that has ever proven practical in the real world. The ideal
> democracy typified by the popular notion of Athenian democracy has
> rarely, if ever, existed in any nation state. It didn't exist in Athens,
> unless you count only a small proportion of free, male citizens as the
> entire population of the city.
>
> We elect magistrates to carry out the will of the people, guided by the
> will of the gods and by the tempering influences of tradition, law, and
> the wise counsel of those august citizens designated as Senators. The
> power to make laws is vested in the citizens voting in their tribes and
> centuries. The Senate cannot make laws. Magistrates cannot make laws.
> Only a legally appointed dictator in time of emergency can issue edicts
> that override laws created by the people in their comitiae. Nova Roma
> _is_ a democracy. On paper.
>
> Whether Nova Roma will operate as a democracy in actuality will be
> determined by "citizen participation." If the citizens are not very much
> more active than they have been, Nova Roma will be ruled by magisterial
> edicts. Who needs that? Who in their right mind would choose to become a
> citizen of a nation in which they would have no effective voice?
>
> Valete,
>
> L. Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
>
> certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
> (You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Latin Right Here! |
| From: |
"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <sarmaticus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:06:12 -0000 |
|
Salve M. Apolloni Formosane,
you have started a wonderful work! What about other ways of greeting
and saying "goodbye" in letters, as these numerous "salve"'s
and "vale"'s have already became a common boring practice in the list?
AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS
Civis et barbarvs Novĉ Romĉ
Propraetor Sarmatiĉ Provinciĉ
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
Vale(te) in pace
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 911 |
| From: |
Barcsi Janos <janos@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:35:12 -0700 (PDT) |
|
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 18:22:47 EDT
> From: RexMarcius@--------
>Subject: ATTN: Edictum
>
>This is an edictum propraetoricium,
>enacted by Marcus Marcius Rex, Propraetor Germaniae Provinciae.
>
>I. A provincial Web-Site (www.novaroma.de) shall be introduced in the
>Provincia Germania. A Scribus shall be responsible for its maintenance. Caius
>Flavius Diocletianus, Legatus Germaniae, is hereby appointed to this office
>
>of Scribus.
>II. The Provincial Web-Site shall serve as the gateway to the provincial
>government for all Nova Roma citizens and other people interested in the
>furtherance of the goals of Nova Roma. For this purpose the provincial
>Web-Site shall provide for the following:
>a) Information regarding the provincia and its historical background
>b) Public fora in the form of message boards and the like
>c) A "Tabularium" containing
>i) Nova Roma laws, senatus consulta and edicta having relevance for the
>province
>ii) Reports by the Governor to the Senate
>iii) Yearly provincial budgets and yearly budget reports
>d) "Digestes" containing private and official legal opinions about the law
>of
>Nova Roma and cases decided by the Praetors and the Comitias; private legal
>opinions have to be approved by the provincial Governor or a legatus before
>
>they may be posted by the responsible Scribus
Salve,
I am a citizen and newly arrived in Germania from Dalmatia. Who can I contact here to get more involved?
Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
==
The Honorable Lord
SOVÁNY BARCSI JÁNOS
c/o LTC J. C. Smith
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839
_____________________________________________________________
Meta Search the web http://Meta.Frodo.Com
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:43:18 +0200 |
|
Salvete, Tribunus et alii,
some statements:
LSergAust@-------- schrieb:
> Salvete M. M. Audens, P. Cassia, M. A. Formosanus, C. F. Diocletianus, et
> alii,
>
> I am happy to see a discussion of citizen participation here. I might
> wish there were more citizens participating in the discussion, but
> mailing lists tend to get slow in the Summer.
That´s right. Summer vacations do their own.
>
> I must respond to the occasionally repeated error that Nova Roma is not a
> democracy. It is designed as a representative democracy, which is the
> only kind that has ever proven practical in the real world. The ideal
> democracy typified by the popular notion of Athenian democracy has
> rarely, if ever, existed in any nation state. It didn't exist in Athens,
> unless you count only a small proportion of free, male citizens as the
> entire population of the city.
>
> We elect magistrates to carry out the will of the people, guided by the
> will of the gods and by the tempering influences of tradition, law, and
> the wise counsel of those august citizens designated as Senators. The
> power to make laws is vested in the citizens voting in their tribes and
> centuries. The Senate cannot make laws. Magistrates cannot make laws.
> Only a legally appointed dictator in time of emergency can issue edicts
> that override laws created by the people in their comitiae. Nova Roma
> _is_ a democracy. On paper.
I think you wrote this to my address, because I mentioned that we are not a
democracy. This I posted after looking on modern democratic systems and the
old roman republican system. I admit, the look on the modern system of NR was
too short.
Ok, some explanations. The political decisions in ancient times of the
republic were then made by a class of nobles, called senators. The laws they
prepared were disussed and decided in the comitiae. This is the same today
in NR. But, you say the democratic system of NR is a representative one. This
means that the decisions are made by the elected representatives. The
comitiae are "chambers" of the people, not of the representatives. This is an
element of direct democracy.
In ancient times only the citizens (which were men) living in Roma were
involved in that process of decision. The citizens outside, in the country or
in the provinces, were not able to take part in the decisions. So the
decisions were made by a few citizens. This means, for my opinion, that the
democratic element declined about the years, when the empire rose. Also the
senators were not elected, but appointed by the censors. So they are not
representatives. This are only the peoples tribunes, which were elected, but
only by the plebeian people. This lacks democray, too. Magistrates were
elected, but they were executive officers, not legislative men. Democracy,
and furthermore, representative democracy, means that the people envolved in
the legislative are elected.
Today, we have got a network which allows us to establish wide ranging
particitpation of all citizens. It can reach all people, and all, who are
willing, can take part.
Concluding, we have a quite different political system, compared with modern
democracies. And, we have no representative democracy. We have a political
system with good elements of direct and some elements of representative
democracy. This does not mean, that it doesn´t perform well. So, I admit, NR
is more democratic than its older counterpart, which was of course a kind of
oligarchy.
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
RexMarcius@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon Jun 26 10:52:45 2000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
"Republic" and "Democracy" are IMO not to be understood as opposing principles, as this discussion seems to imply (Forgive me if I understood that in a wrong way).
"Democracy" to my knowlegde refers to a system where there is an identity between the ruler and the ruled (the people rule the people) as opposed e.g. to an "Oligarchy", where only a few rule the people. Of course a democratic system is almost always indirectly applied via a representative democracy (Switzerland (at least partly) being one of the exceptions that come to my mind).
"Republic" to my knowledge refers to a system, where the head of state is not a "monarch" but a person or a body who is only temporarily in that function and politically and legally responsible for it. Our "head of state" would probably be the Senate, as it fulfills typical functions like external representation (others would be the power to grant pardons, emergency powers which are partly not regulated or are conferred by the Senate to the Consules or a Dictator).
There are of course only democratic monarchies in Europe (maybe not counting Liechtenstein)
With regard to citizen participation, I believe it is a vital component for all democratic systems and there is a need to foster a feeling of civic duty towards it. Non-participation gives those with non democratic inklings a basis to work on (not that we have those in NR, I hope).
I therefore often raise my voice here in the Forum to express my views on the points currently on the political (and legal) agenda. But of course, I can see at the same time, that some magistrates and cives could regard my postings as a pain in the neck and superfluous, especially if they do not concur with their own opinion.
But this is exactly the price of democracy and freedom of speech. I would be happy to back anyone for whatever B......t he exclaims on the list for his right to do so. And I expect no less from others for my personal B......t.
For Political Infighting there is a Senate List where normal cives as myself have no access to and therefore are dependent on the Tribunes to keep us informed (my congratulations to Australicus Obstinatus for a job well done, I hope the other Tribune also provides some input here). But this is the main-list, so everyone please speak out freely. No magistrate could (and hopefully would if the occasion arose) tell you to be quiet in political discussions "because it does not belong here, but in the Senate".
Sic dico
Marcus Marcius Rex
cives
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Trip to Emerita Augusta, the ancient capital of Lusitania |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:02:29 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
This weekend I went with my wife for a visit to Emerita Augusta, the ancient
capital of the Lusitania Provincia, which is now the city of Merida in
Spain, 68 Km from the Portuguese border.
The city's Roman monuments are amazingly preserved. They feature:
- Roman Theatre
- Roman Amphitheatre
- Roman Circus
- Roman house and several other monuments near the Amphitheatre
- 4 Roman Aqueducts and dams.
- 3 Roman Bridges
- Lots of remnants of Roman roads
- Municipal Forum whose entrance features the effigies of Iuppiter, Ammon,
the Medusa and several other pieces.
- Roman Arch and Decumanus Maximus.
- Temple of the Imperial Cult (erroneously called Temple of Diana since the
XVII th century)
- Religious complex with Mithraeum
- Roman necropolis for family burial (Columbarii)
The city is really worth visiting. It is like a time machine. I almost
trmbled as if I was surrounded by ghosts. When I entered the arena of the
amphitheatre, both me and my wife were really scared... I thought about the
so many people and animals that died there and the fear they have felt...
Fortunately the theatre is not far away. It is a well preserved theatre
featuring statues of Ceres and what seems to be Imperial statues. Those
pieces are copies of the originals which can be found - together with other
pieces such as Pluto and Proserpina - in the nearby Museum. The theatre is
so well preserved that I started to tremble again, so powerful are the
Numina that inhabit those places. On the back of the theatre, there was a
chappel that seems to have served the Imperial cult. I have performed the
adoratio and I'm sure that the Divi will bring good luck both to my family
and Nova Roma.
I went somewhat late in the afternoon, and as the Portuguese time is 1 hour
behind the Spanish, we found the majority of the enclosed monuments
(including the museaum and the Mithraeum) closed. Well, but we went for a
walk in the centre of the city. We found the temple of the cult of the
Augusti. Thrilling. Then we found an arch from the time of Trajan. We found
the nearby Municipal Forum and found the godly effigies... I was really
excited and almost scared, for everything was so real that I was constantly
affraid of having gone back 2000 years. How would I tell the ancient Legatus
Pro-Praetore that I was the Governor of Lusitania in the name of the
Respublica? Maybe I would end up watching the beasts in the amphitheatre
from a little closer =).
In the end of the walk we passed near the Mithraeum and although it was
closed I could see the famous cosmological mosaic of Merida, which seems to
be oriented towards the Summer Solstice (as shown by a mathmatical analysis
perfomed by a spanish scholar).
And so we left Merida with the promise of returning for a few more visits
and a lot of photos.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem VI Kalendas Quinctilis (June 26th) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:10:32 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.
This is the second day of the Ludi Taurei Quinquennales, offered to the Dii
Inferi every five years.
The Roman Mithraists seem to have celebrated around the Summer Solstice the
meetings "mortalitatis causa", i.e. for sake of mortality. While the true
meaning of the celebration is envolved in mystery, it seems that it marked
the timing for the ascension of the souls to the Empyrean, the region of the
immortal Ideas that stays above the sphere of the fixed stars. These
meetings probably cellebrate the aniversary of the deed of Mithras, the
Tauroctony. The meetings took place on the June 20s and it seems that it was
not needed to exactly coincide to the Summer Solstice as all this period
(maybe the interval of a lunation phase around the Summer Solstice) may have
been considered propitious. Several meetings are recorded. The most famous
was held in Virunum, capital of Noricum, in 184 AD. A list of the recorded
meetings follows.
June 25, 172 AD, in Narsae
June 26, 184 AD, in Virunum
June 24, 239 AD, in Virunum
As a theme for meditation, I remind you that June is the month of the
harvest of wheat, the end of the maturation of the plant. The same wheat
that protrudes from the wound of the Bull... Maybe the Gods have inscribed
in Nature the words of the Mystery, the answer to the questions of Plato,
everything we have to know about the secrets of life and death, genesis and
apogenesis.
I also remind that Iunius is the month of Iuno, month of the young
(iuuenes).
Pax Deorum vobiscum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] website design |
| From: |
Gaius Pontius <elokk@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:47:19 -0700 |
|
Salvete,
I am a bit of a web designer in my spare time and I was looking over the
Nova Roma site. One of my flaws is that I am a perfectionist in many
ways. I think we need new SPQR graphics for the website. The ones we have
currently are, I presume, from the same image and it is kind of blurry.
My idea is that we remove the current ones on the main page
(http://www.novaroma.org/main.html) and replace them with edited versions
of the image of the flag that we have in the Macellum
(http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/flags.html). We could place two on each
side at the top of the page.
I have made some preliminary version of the flags we might use if they are
needed.
I don't mean to step on any toes, over all the website is very clear and
presents the information it is supposed to in a clear way.
Valete
C. Pontius
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Athenian Democracy. (long) |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:06:33 EDT |
|
Salvete!
Since so many people are quoting the Athenian Democracy (by the people)
today,
I thought you should know the facts:
Athens' democracy began like this. In 508 B.C. Kleisthenes, son of Agariste
of Sikyon, (an Athenian colony) from the tribe Alcmaeonid was unwilling to
submit to such constitutional forms as then existed (tyranny/oligarchy) and
appealed to the disfranchised masses, of yeomen farmers and promised them a
restoration of their political rights. The people responded, and in spite of
the interference of Kleomenes, and Sparta to retain the "status quo"
Isagoras, the current Archon was forced into exile by a peoples' uprising.
Now Kleisthenes' task was to ward off a return of the defeated aristocrats of
the Peisistratidae and to see to it that the people, so recently attached to
the tyranny, would not support it again.
Kleisthenes, even though he was an aristocrat, proved himself as a greater
statesman and democrat and deserves to be called the founder of Athenian
democracy. The task of bringing cohesion to the state involved destroying the
power not the existence of certain associations, religious and otherwise,
such as the "phratry" and the "clan." Not only would this reduce the danger
of the nobility, but it would also permit the enrollment of those recently
disfranchised as non citizens by Isagoras, as the full equals of citizens of
pure Athenian descent.
To accomplish this difficult task Kleisthenes changed the Athenian Solon
constitution. He abolished the four old Ionian tribes, retaining them for
ceremonial purposes, only, and substituted ten new tribes in their place.
Membership in these tribes was to be based on living in which the deme (Gr.
regional village,) kinship and religion would have nothing to do with it.
The deme, were the villages or townships of Attika and sections of Athens
itself. Once the change was made to the new system, membership in the demes
became hereditary. The Assemblies of the demes, with their elected demarchs,
were the perfect example of self government. They kept the lists of their
citizens, registered real estate purchases and mortgages, and conducted
small judicial proceedings. They were much like modern homeowners
associations.
Kleisthenes grouped the demes in "of thirds" (Gr. trittyes). The number of
demes in a trittys varied, but three trittyes formed a tribe, and
consequently we get a total of thirty tritlyes (3 x 10). The trittyes of each
tribe did not come from the same general area, but one trittys with its
various demes, represented the people of the coast, another the interior, and
still another the city. Each tribe then, contained a good cross section of
the population, and it would be very hard for any element, such as the
nobles, to gain control. Actually it turned out that the city
trittys was more close in sentiment than would be possible with the two other
trittyes, with they being composed of rich and poor farmers of the interior
of Attika, and the fishermen of the coast. Here then was a solid bloc within
each tribe, and because the voting in the Assembly was done in tribes, it was
the influential city element (trittys) that became the leader of the trittyes.
Likely Kleisthenes set this up this way since he was convinced the greatness
of Attika lay in Athens and this system must have pleased his followers, who
were concentrated in the city. Klesthenes had reorganized power of the city.
The old Council of Four Hundred oligarchs was abolished in favor of a new
Council with fifty members being chosen annually by lot from each of the ten
tribes (five hundred). These fifty members were distributed among the demes
according to the size of the population, a method which recognized the
principle of proportional representation. With a growing city population, it
was clear that the city deme or demes in a tribe would count for more. This
explains further the tribal arrangement, which, because of its careful
planning, must have had a special purpose.
The Council met in the Bouleuterion ( gov. building) and was the both
deliberative and governing body of the state. In its administrative capacity
it was responsible for financial and foreign affairs, and prepared the
business agenda that was to come before the Assembly. The Assembly met once
every ten days on the Pnyx and passed measures into law. To facilitate its
work, the Council was divided into ten committees, each committee being in
charge for thirty-five or thirty six days.
This meant that fifty representatives from each tribe were the committee, and
each tribe had its turn (by lot) at presiding for a tenth of the year. During
this time the fifty presiding councilors were called "prytaneis" (of the 35),
and the group; a "prytany" (the 35).
It met in the Tholos under a different peer elected chairman each day.
Once he gave the city population so much importance, as it were, it was the
responsibility of Kleisthenes to ensure that nobles so recently attached to
the Peisistratidae, or the old governing dynasty, should not support a
restoration of the oligarchy. He therefore devised the curious, but
effective scheme known as ostracism. This was taken from the term Ostraca
(Gr. potsherds). The voting was done in the Assembly on potsherds. Once a
year the people came together in the agora, if the Assembly so resolved, and
voted against any individual whom they judged dangerous to the state. A
quorum of 6,000 votes was necessary, and the man who received the largest
number went into exile for ten years. This eliminated potential trouble
makers, but could be used to control non partyline members as well.
The archons (kings) remained the executive officials. In addition to various
small funds, there were two chief public treasuries; that of Athena, under
the Treasurers (Gr. tamiae) of the Goddess, and the Demosion (state treasury)
under the "colacretac". Cleisthenes instituted a board of ten Receivers (Gr.
apodectae), who under the supervision of the Council of Five Hundred received
all incoming moneys and assigned them to the different treasuries. It was a
step toward the unification of public finances. The members of "heiaea"
(judges of the courts) were elected by the demes, though the courts were not
yet divided into the later panel system.
In 501 BCE. the army was reorganized on the basis of the ten tribes, each
tribe had a taxis (regiment) to which they contributed 1000 hoplites with
each tribe electing a commanding official for its troops of foot (taxiarch)
and horse (hipparch). A board of ten "strategoi," (generals), was formed, and
after 487 when the archons were chosen by lot, the "strategia" became the
most powerful body in Athens. (This was the organization that defeated the
Persians at Marathon and Plataea.)
The archonship had become the prey of that democratic passion to leave
everything to fortune and the will of the gods, and by doing this there is
final democratic gesture of contempt for an office long associated with
aristocracy, but the Athenians saw to it that their generals were elected, so
the best qualified man would have the job. The Athenians understood their
true power lay in their serried ranks of the phalanx (Gr. roller).
The energizing of the political and patriotic spirit of the people, in the
demes, in the Council of Five Hundred, the Assembly, and the heliaea,
produced intensive military, artistic, and intellectual activities. Athens
was indeed a true democracy, though held in check by conservative balances.
The absence of pay for public service kept the very poor from continuous
participation in Assembly and courts. The property qualifications for
magistrates, in view of the wider
distribution of wealth, probably did not debar large numbers, though the
people
would find it hard to discard their practice of choosing leaders from among
the great families. The influence of country life prevented the small, but
conservative, farmer from frequent trips to the city to part in the Assembly
. Those rich farmers who went to would be outnumbered by the city poor. The
oligarch and tyrannist influence had been greatly lessened, but the Council
of the Areopagus (made up the former archons of Athens with lifetime
memberships), whose influence was still strong, remained.
Kleisthenes was the founder of democracy, but this government was far less
democratic than it became in the following century. (I'll speak of this next
if there is interest.)
In the government of deme, tribe, and state the ordinary citizen had a share
in politics - in fact, his opportunities for political development and
education were immense. In other ways, too, Athens was setting the pace for
Hellas.. Athens' literary and artistic achievements under this new system
were among its loveliest and most important contribution to posterity.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] ICQ - questions for the Quirites |
| From: |
"Jeroen Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:11:46 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Well, so now it is clear to everyone (I think?!) what ICQ is and what skins
are; I would like to repeat my questions, that actually didn't really get
answered:
1. Is there enough interest for a NR skin?
2. If so, is there anyone out there who can get me an easy-to-use tool to
make them, or one who can do it him or herself?
Valete,
Sextus Apollonius Draco
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizen Participation |
| From: |
"C Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:23:53 -0400 |
|
Salvete Luci Sergi et alii
This is an important thread, and I want to give my own perspective on it.
I think that, in one way, some citizens without office are actually
participating more in the life of Nova Roma than the senators. Just about
the entirety of the public life of this Republic is currently contained in
verbal exchanges in this forum. As new cives subscribe to this list, post
introductions and generate new threads, they do in fact participate in an
important way -- they derive benefit from association with others and
reciprocate, whether it be by offering a theory on the origin of the phrase
Patres (et) Conscripti, or by posting a summary of rules of Latin
salutation, or whatever else. This is an important aspect of participation
in which it is relatively new citizens, not high magistrates or senators,
who lead the way by sharing the most information.
In other aspects of participation, i.e. government and public religious
development, it does appear that relatively few people are involved. This
is due in my view to two factors:
i Paucity of candidates for religious and government offices -- if one
doesn't enter the Cursus Honorum or volunteer to administer a provincia, or
apply to join the Collegium Pontificum, then one cannot expect to enter the
Senate nor take an active role in directing the nation. When vacant offices
are announced, cives should not be afraid to think seriously about running
for them. I don't speak for the Collegium Pontificum, but I believe that
they are interested in applications from people with sincere belief in the
gods and time and desire to research their worship.
ii Issuance of edicta without preliminary discussion in the forum -- let's
face it, a couple of edicta issued this year upset a lot of people and left
some people wondering what for. It is tempting to condemn edicta
altogether, but look at the other extreme: experience has shown that long
delays and formation of committees that for one reason or other fail to move
forward can lead to attempts at impeachment and breakdown of the Republic.
I think that edicta remain legitimate vehicles for speedy resolution of
administrative issues. It is my intention to issue a few in the course of
this year together with my colleague Censor Sulla, and to petition the
consules to put the more crucial of them before the people as leges at the
end of the year. What I have been trying to do is elicit discussion of the
issues that demand, in my view, some improvement, with the objective of
taking this discussion into consideration in preparing the edictum. How
well this approach works only time will tell.
As far as the old Democracy vs. Republic thing goes, I hesitate to call NR a
democracy. To me, that word connotes a representative system; the Roman
Republic had a Senate that was not elected by the people and seems therefore
to me to be different from a democracy. Since NR seeks to model itself in
this and other ways on the example of the Roman Republic.....Yet, the will
of the people must be the foundation of Nova Roma's direction. It is the
only viable way.
>
>Whether Nova Roma will operate as a democracy in actuality will be
>determined by "citizen participation."
You are absolutely right here, except that it is my belief that an
undemocratic Nova Roma is doomed to rapid failure, so citizen participation
is absolutely vital to our success, period. Whether one loves democracy or
is indifferent to it.
If the citizens are not very much
>more active than they have been, Nova Roma will be ruled by magisterial
>edicts.
For a short time, then die.
Who needs that? Who in their right mind would choose to become a
>citizen of a nation in which they would have no effective voice?
Yes, that's a good question.
>
>
>L. Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
>
It suits you :).
Valete
C Marius Merullus
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