| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
"Little Dragon" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 01:50:15 -0000 |
|
---Salve Formosanus,
I will ask this as a favor, could you please drop this matter? What's
done is done isn't it? Why try to validate everything and get the
situation more in a tiffy. That's pretty much what I had to say about
it, hopefully Formosanus you will listen.
Vale
Aeternia Draconia
In novaroma@--------, "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@y...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> Piscinus.
>
> Respondeo:
>
> 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> point. We are not personal friends. :-)
>
> 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> insofar as I can remember.
>
> The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
>
> But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> is:
> _____________________
> > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> sad.
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you.
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
>
> In detail:
>
> "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
>
> There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> "AIMs" anywhere.
>
> " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you."
>
> That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> does not "fulminate".
>
> But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> the evidence to show otherwise.
>
> I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> thanks, Graece.
>
> Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
>
> The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> snippets and discredit political opponents.
>
> Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> systematically gather information to attack political
> opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> Quirites.
>
> I have already been urging the involved people I have
> been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> Curatrix Sermonis.
>
> We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> public answer here?
>
> Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> with regard to this July 20 Affair.
>
> You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> keeping :-)
>
> Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus
> _____________________________
> Festus wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> From: Lykaion1@--------
> Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
>
> Salvete,
>
> This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> print it out and
> read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> Roma citizens,
> and non-citizens alike.
>
> There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> if it is not
> illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> this post to
> both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> you can just as easily be victimized
>
> There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> taverna, and
> the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> conversations that take place there.
>
> Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> chatroom is a
> public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> Beseen.com
> and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> television or radio.
> When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> friend' is there
> reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> tells someone
> else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> made any more public than it
> already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
>
> However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> PRIVATE
> communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> who would
> post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> forums.
> There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> opinionating. For
> example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> Gaius Festus.
>
> I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> problems with it. In
> fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> real ethical
> crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> communications
> were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
>
> The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
>
> From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> left, I copied the
> entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> it may have a
> copy emailed from me.
>
> Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> Formosanus have
> been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
>
> The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> have not edited
> it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> emailing me.
>
> Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> Aeternia
> Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> statements.
>
> I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
>
> Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> long
> winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> iustitia, etc.
> Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> these virtues?
>
> Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> much time on
> your hands that you can spread private communications to
> others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> sir?
>
> How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> Have you
> informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
>
> I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> any commitee or other posts
> they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> should remain private citizens only.
>
> I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> punitive
> action against these men.
>
> For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> acquaintances.
> They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> severed.
>
> So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> Here is one.
> Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> they may end up! :}
>
> For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> Piscinus and
> Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
>
> This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> warning. Do as you
> like with it.
>
> Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
>
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Scriba Censorius
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> ________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
experiments.
http://click.egroups.com/1/7077/8/_/61050/_/964230626/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:28:44 -0600 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
M Apollonius Formosanus speaks at length and with great conviction about the
despicable practice of logging conversations in the Taverna. However, I
note that the sampling of conversation which he provides from the
conversation in the Taverna between Vado and Piscinus is dated Thurs., July
20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
me....
This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
room. I would much rather have a third party in charge of keeping the
peace. Another online society I participate in includes the mandatory
archiving of channel logs BY THE CHANNEL OPERATORS whenever the channel is
in session, and for all operators to verify that a situation has occurred
and agree on what course of action a situation warrants.
This arrangement works to protect all individuals concerned in situations
like this. I have participated in this online society for 6 years, and have
never felt like my right to express myself was curtailed, with the exception
of being held to the channel criteria, which includes not using foul
language or speaking in a derogatory manner about another person. These
criteria DO NOT prevent open, honest disagreement of opinion -- but it can
serve to keep the disagreement focused on the topic, rather than attacking
PERSONS.
I echo the admonitions of our august Senators Patricia Cassia and Marcus
Audens. This line of discussion serves nobody and hurts quite a few people
personally. For example, love him or hate him....have we lost our (rather
amusing) satirist Festus for good?? That would make me sad.
Valete!
L. Cornelia Aurelia
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> Piscinus.
>
> Respondeo:
>
> 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> point. We are not personal friends. :-)
>
> 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> insofar as I can remember.
>
> The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
>
> But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> is:
> _____________________
> > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> sad.
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you.
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
>
> In detail:
>
> "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
>
> There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> "AIMs" anywhere.
>
> " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you."
>
> That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> does not "fulminate".
>
> But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> the evidence to show otherwise.
>
> I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> thanks, Graece.
>
> Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
>
> The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> snippets and discredit political opponents.
>
> Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> systematically gather information to attack political
> opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> Quirites.
>
> I have already been urging the involved people I have
> been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> Curatrix Sermonis.
>
> We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> public answer here?
>
> Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> with regard to this July 20 Affair.
>
> You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> keeping :-)
>
> Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus
> _____________________________
> Festus wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> From: Lykaion1@--------
> Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
>
> Salvete,
>
> This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> print it out and
> read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> Roma citizens,
> and non-citizens alike.
>
> There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> if it is not
> illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> this post to
> both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> you can just as easily be victimized
>
> There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> taverna, and
> the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> conversations that take place there.
>
> Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> chatroom is a
> public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> Beseen.com
> and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> television or radio.
> When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> friend' is there
> reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> tells someone
> else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> made any more public than it
> already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
>
> However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> PRIVATE
> communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> who would
> post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> forums.
> There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> opinionating. For
> example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> Gaius Festus.
>
> I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> problems with it. In
> fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> real ethical
> crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> communications
> were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
>
> The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
>
> From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> left, I copied the
> entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> it may have a
> copy emailed from me.
>
> Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> Formosanus have
> been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
>
> The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> have not edited
> it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> emailing me.
>
> Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> Aeternia
> Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> statements.
>
> I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
>
> Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> long
> winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> iustitia, etc.
> Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> these virtues?
>
> Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> much time on
> your hands that you can spread private communications to
> others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> sir?
>
> How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> Have you
> informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
>
> I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> any commitee or other posts
> they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> should remain private citizens only.
>
> I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> punitive
> action against these men.
>
> For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> acquaintances.
> They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> severed.
>
> So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> Here is one.
> Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> they may end up! :}
>
> For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> Piscinus and
> Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
>
> This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> warning. Do as you
> like with it.
>
> Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
>
> --
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Scriba Censorius
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> ________________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shoes? On the web?
> Click Here!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7061/8/_/61050/_/964167849/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:46:27 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve L Cornelia,
> Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
>
> Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
> me....
No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also, remember
that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
> This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
> moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
> operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
> room.
I have been advising the Senate on a technical solution that will make
this possible.
Vale, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
Microsoft delenda est!
http://www.graveyards.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huge Shoe Selection at Zappos.com
(small sizes also available)
http://click.egroups.com/1/7062/8/_/61050/_/964234098/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:50:19 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Octavius Germanicus" <haase@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> Salve L Cornelia,
>
> > Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
> >
> > Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation
to
> > me....
>
> No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also,
remember
> that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
Actually Formosanus got his transcript from me. :) We are in communication
privately to resolve this issue amicably via mediation.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://click.egroups.com/1/7078/8/_/61050/_/964234260/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:10:03 -0600 |
|
Salve, Germanicus:
I stand corrected by my better. :) I was just giving counsel in controlling
oneself before one speaks out of turn. Physician, heal thyself!
If you would like assistance with the technical matters, please keep me in mind.
Vale,
L.Cornelia
Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve L Cornelia,
>
> > Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
> >
> > Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
> > me....
>
> No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also, remember
> that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
>
> > This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
> > moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
> > operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
> > room.
>
> I have been advising the Senate on a technical solution that will make
> this possible.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
> Microsoft delenda est!
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Huge Shoe Selection at Zappos.com
> (small sizes also available)
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7062/8/_/61050/_/964234098/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
experiments.
http://click.egroups.com/1/7077/8/_/61050/_/964238075/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq] Welcome All and Chat |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Jul 2000 23:18:30 -0500 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
Venator hic:
A reminder for any Sodalis members who haven't joined the eGroups list for us yet. It's easy to
subscribe.
1. Follow the below link to the list page.
2. Click on the subscribe bar.
3. I get an email request to approve you, which I do as soon as possible (I check my e-mail 3 to 4
times each day).
4. I moderate with a light hand. As list owner, I can "Nuke" ya, but I like to work on the
principal of private correction for a first offense, public rebuke for a repeat, then termination of
membership. Keep it polite in tone and keep it generally pertinant, please, and you'll find me just
another posters/lurker on the list..
5. Contribute to the postings, file area, database, calender and so forth.
6. Pay heed to the future of the Republic.
As list owner and founder, I shall always maintain some measure of control.
Any officers elected will be added as co-moderators upon assumption of office.
Bona Fortuna - Venii
>
> Avete Omnes!
>
> Venator Dominus scripsit:
>
> Welcome to all those who have come on board. I'm glad to see the
> interest. Make the eGroups site yours, post, use the chatroom (open
> 24/7), upload info to our file area, plan events on our calender and
> so forth. Let us know if you've uploaded info or planned an event.
>
> Our first official chat is on Sunday (July 23) evening at 9:00PM
> Central US
> Time.
>
> Go to our website:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
>
> and click on the chat link at the left edge of the page.
>
> Nominations for Dominus (1 year term) plus Scriptor and Nummus Vigil
> (6 month terms) are due by end of chat. Election over by end of next
> months chat (27 August, same Bat Time, same Bat Channel!). Read the
> Charter and By Laws in the file area of our page for details on the
> positions. Post nomination here and on the main list. If you wish
> to
> nominate anonymously, e-mail me privately and I shall post the
> nomination of Q. Cives Sodalis by A. Nomius Mus.
>
> By the way, I intend to stand for Scriptor and hope someone of you
> will nominate themelves or accept a nomination (one must be a Nova
> Roman Cives to be a Sodalis officer).
>
> Hope to 'see' some [ALL] of ye.
>
> In Amicus - Venii
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq-unsubscribe@--------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huge Shoe Selection at Zappos.com
(small sizes also available)
http://click.egroups.com/1/7062/8/_/61050/_/964239477/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Latin language dead? |
| From: |
websurfer07@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 05:42:25 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "M G" <fresco@f...> wrote:
> Salve.
> Compliments for your message,
> but there is no signature.
> Please which is your name ?
> Vale bene.
> Marcus Prometheus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
<-------- size=-1 color="#008000">> From: <netsur--------g3@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, 20 July, 2000 1:20 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Latin language dead?
>
>
> > > As for Latin being a dead language?
> > Latin, like a lot of other languages, NEVER died. It just
> > evolved. It gave birth to Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese,
> > Catalan, and Roumanian. The Roman legacy is enduring.
My name is gladiator. *hee hee*
(awaiting citizenship)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old school buds here:
http://click.egroups.com/1/7081/8/_/61050/_/964244556/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:52:13 +0200 |
|
Salve Aeternia!
I would like to think that we are friends, but I must
say that I was a bit put off by this post of yours.
I was not really planning to post again on this topic,
inasmuch as I think I defended myself quite adequately from
the insubstantial accusations that Festus was spouting about
me.
However your message seemed to me rather inappropriate
and unfair. *I* have not libeled anyone or tried to destroy
anybody's good name. Festus has done that to me. If it were
to be that I might require two posts to fully deal with an
attack of such a vile nature, I think I might be given the
right to do so in self-defence. Might I not?
I might ask you why you did not write a message to
Festus, who is also your personal friend, asking him to stop
defaming people on the List. Why did you not call for his
apology rather than try to silence me?
Since I have had to answer this, let me clarify my
stance to everyone, because some posts seem to show
misunderstanding: I realise that people have different
points of view about ethics and etiquette in the chat room.
It is a slightly confusing situation, socially speaking, so
honest people can have honest differences. Lurking and even
making transcripts are not really "spying" *in and of
themselves*. It is all in how these techniques are used.
If Consul Audens goes into the Taverna to lurk like a
disguised king to find out what the common civis thinks -
well that is all to the good. He is noble-souled person not
seeking anyone's harm, but only good for all. When, however,
someone goes there to find things to use in a dishonest
manner to discredit political opponents or personal enemies
- whichever Festus thinks of me as -, then it is the intent
and use of information gathered that makes the difference.
I don't think I took Festus' expert little satire of my
arguments badly. But I do take his lies about me badly.
Although an investigation is now being carried on into
the matter by by the Consuls, continuing the work of
Senator T. Labienus Fortunatus, which may later disprove my
words, as far as *I* see the evidence at the moment, the
whole excitement in the July 20th Affair was instigated by
Festus, who sought to stir up Sulla against Piscinus and
myself, just as it was he who later attacked me here.
Sulla has not believed the accusations of Festus against
me, perhaps because he knows me better than in the past due
to my scribal work for him, and understands that to act in
that manner would be contrary to my character. I think that
the immediate initiative in the chain of malicious events
beginning in the Taverna was almost surely taken by Festus,
rather than Sulla. Just as Sulla has always maintained, he
merely reacted to the actions of Festus in a natural manner.
What allegiances motivated Festus, if any, are still to be
determined by the Labienian Investigation, now taken over by
the Consuls.
Vale!
___________________________
Aeternia wrote:
Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
---Salve Formosanus,
I will ask this as a favor, could you please drop this
matter? What's
done is done isn't it? Why try to validate everything and
get the
situation more in a tiffy. That's pretty much what I had to
say about
it, hopefully Formosanus you will listen.
--
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Scriba Censorius
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
________________________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
http://click.egroups.com/1/7078/8/_/61050/_/964252352/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] the point of the message board |
| From: |
marcusaemiliusscaurus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:52:43 -0000 |
|
I came over to my computer, switched it on, logged on to the net,
came over to Nova Roma mailing list, and saw an extra 10 message from
when I last looked. I clicked on July messages, looking forward to
getting to know new people, being a relatively new citizen. And I
saw "RE: The allegations of Festus the spy" plastered over several of
them. And these were filled with bickering. I have read through the
lot of them now, several essays filled with justification for one
person and the sins of another. I have to say, I have read through
two such arguments now, and when they occur, they dominate the
mailing list. I may be getting a reputation as a peace maker now, I
don't know. I also do not know who is right in the chat room lurking
argument, though I too would like to see an end to it. However, I
echo Aeternia Draconia in saying drop it. If you want to continue
your fun arguments, please do so privately, since it moved on long
ago from the matter of chatrooms and went on to people bickering with
each other, which is boring to read.
I hope people get my message, and I also hope I have not offended
anyone here.
Salvete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
experiments.
http://click.egroups.com/1/7077/8/_/61050/_/964259567/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Interesting Observation |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 06:34:20 -0500 |
|
21 July 2000
Salve
I have been on this e-group for four months now and I have read every
message sent. I have observed something, people who persist in sending
negative posts seem to suffer from it in the end.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://click.egroups.com/1/6809/8/_/61050/_/964265872/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Standard for Legio I Germanica |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:03:59 -0500 |
|
22 Jully 2000
Salve All
I have a question that I hope you may be able to help me with. We here in
the Praefecture of Winnipeg are trying to get our Legio off the ground and
we have come to problem. As history is very unsure as to what Legio I
Germnaica's Standard/Banner was, we have decided to use an beast that is
very historic in this part of the world, the Buffalo. We would also like to
have the head of a Buffalo with a Scutum shield and cross Gladius swords as
the background. We are trying to keep with history as much as possible, but
it seems as though, because of the lack of historic evidence on Legio I
Germanica's Standard/Banner, we may be able to create a new modern symbol
for our Legio in march under. I am not sure if there is a problem with this.
Is there anyone that can help us?
Salve
Quintus Sertorius
Legio I Germanica
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
http://click.egroups.com/1/7075/8/_/61050/_/964267652/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Questions on holding a Roman gathering |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 07:42:51 -0500 |
|
22 July 2000
Salve
Unfortunately the gathering I am planning will take place on the Nova Roman
frontier, in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Since this is our first meeting it
will be small, I am hoping for ten adults and ten children. I have read some
books that give some reference as to what the proper sequence of events for
such an evening of entertainment should be, but I would like to know more. I
am hoping to have one gathering a month but my wife said that that was too
much(my Legio boys don't think so we are going to meet every month for
"training!?!"heh heh), every two or three months would be good. I also
believe what our good Consuls say, that face to face interaction in our home
Praefectures is critical in order to build a proper foundation for Nova Roma
to sit upon. I would appreciate any more help if anyone has any more
information, I have read the web site and it is great, but it doesn't say as
to the proper agenda for such a gathering should be.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
----- Original Message -----
From: <pjane@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 9:31 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Questions on holding a Roman gathering
> Quintus Sertorius writes:
>
> > I am planning to hold a
> > gathering of people interested in being part of a Roman Legio and a
> Roman
> > cultural group(Nova Roma), and I need help in planning a proper
> Roman event.
>
> Wow, that sounds fun! Where is this event going to take place?
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Great brand name shoes at Zappos.com.
> Click Here!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7060/8/_/61050/_/964189880/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
If not, check this site out.
They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/8/_/61050/_/964269986/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Clades Variana - The Varus film project |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:38:21 -0500 |
|
Avete Omnes!
Venator scripsit:
An interesting website about which an Heathen Friend informed me.
It is about a project to develop a screenplay based upon -- the author of the site announces -- an
historically accurate representation of the Varian Defeat in the Teutoburg Forest. (9 AD, 3 Legions
kaput. But, to be fair, Germanicus did return the favor in 16 AD.)
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/varus.html
The website author appears to be Romano-Gothic in personality and culture. This is more fully shown
in his home page.
http://www.ancientsites.com/users/Flavius_Thiudareiks
He is a member of the "Ancient Site" webring.
Thought you might find it interesting.
In Amicus - Venii
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://click.egroups.com/1/7079/8/_/61050/_/964283865/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy |
| From: |
"Little Dragon" <fionaerin@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:53:04 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@y...>
wrote:
> Salve Aeternia!
>
> I would like to think that we are friends, but I must
> say that I was a bit put off by this post of yours.
>
> I was not really planning to post again on this topic,
> inasmuch as I think I defended myself quite adequately from
> the insubstantial accusations that Festus was spouting about
> me.
>
> However your message seemed to me rather inappropriate
> and unfair. *I* have not libeled anyone or tried to destroy
> anybody's good name. Festus has done that to me. If it were
> to be that I might require two posts to fully deal with an
> attack of such a vile nature, I think I might be given the
> right to do so in self-defence. Might I not?
Aeternia: I can understand about being in self-defense, that I know
very well. What I don't understand is how is my message unfair? By
asking you to keep this situation in private e-mail, so other citizens
don't have to put up with all this petty arguing? Wow I didn't know
that was inapropriate.
>
> I might ask you why you did not write a message to
> Festus, who is also your personal friend, asking him to stop
> defaming people on the List. Why did you not call for his
> apology rather than try to silence me?
Aeternia: I'm sure if I wrote a message asking Festus to stop defaming
people, but I do remember sending a message saying there was no need
to apologize to me just because I was there in the room. I also said
the apology should asked to people who desereved it more. That's all
I will say about that.
>
> Since I have had to answer this, let me clarify my
> stance to everyone, because some posts seem to show
> misunderstanding: I realise that people have different
> points of view about ethics and etiquette in the chat room.
> It is a slightly confusing situation, socially speaking, so
> honest people can have honest differences. Lurking and even
> making transcripts are not really "spying" *in and of
> themselves*. It is all in how these techniques are used.
>
> If Consul Audens goes into the Taverna to lurk like a
> disguised king to find out what the common civis thinks -
> well that is all to the good. He is noble-souled person not
> seeking anyone's harm, but only good for all. When, however,
> someone goes there to find things to use in a dishonest
> manner to discredit political opponents or personal enemies
> - whichever Festus thinks of me as -, then it is the intent
> and use of information gathered that makes the difference.
>
> I don't think I took Festus' expert little satire of my
> arguments badly. But I do take his lies about me badly.
>
> Although an investigation is now being carried on into
> the matter by by the Consuls, continuing the work of
> Senator T. Labienus Fortunatus, which may later disprove my
> words, as far as *I* see the evidence at the moment, the
> whole excitement in the July 20th Affair was instigated by
> Festus, who sought to stir up Sulla against Piscinus and
> myself, just as it was he who later attacked me here.
Aeternia: I thought Censor Sulla explained last night in the chat
room, no investigation was being taken placed. Senator T. Labienus
Fortunatus was called in as a mediator? Was he not?
>
> Sulla has not believed the accusations of Festus against
> me, perhaps because he knows me better than in the past due
> to my scribal work for him, and understands that to act in
> that manner would be contrary to my character. I think that
> the immediate initiative in the chain of malicious events
> beginning in the Taverna was almost surely taken by Festus,
> rather than Sulla. Just as Sulla has always maintained, he
> merely reacted to the actions of Festus in a natural manner.
> What allegiances motivated Festus, if any, are still to be
> determined by the Labienian Investigation, now taken over by
> the Consuls.
>
> Vale!
> ___________________________
> Aeternia wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> ---Salve Formosanus,
>
> I will ask this as a favor, could you please drop this
> matter? What's
> done is done isn't it? Why try to validate everything and
> get the
> situation more in a tiffy. That's pretty much what I had to
> say about
> it, hopefully Formosanus you will listen.
>
> --
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Scriba Censorius
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> ________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Standard for Legio I Germanica |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:10:18 +0200 |
|
Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus et Quinto Sertorio S.P.D.
Let me make some remarks to this matter.
A legion during the augustean period had no banner, but an "eagle". The eagle of
a legion symbolized the legion as a whole and was honoured in a religious sense.
It was an eagle sculpture in gilded silver, perhaps also gold, decorated with a
laurelīs wreath and mounted on a pole. The Aquilifer, the eagleīs bearer, was a
proofed soldier and held the highest NCO-rank in a legion. The cohorts of a
legion had their own signa, standards, held by a signifer. Also, each legion had
an own emblem. Legions raised by Caesar often had the bull. The emblems of
Legions raised by Octavian (so as Legio I Germanica), are often unknown, but
Capricorn and Pegasus were sometimes noted.
So, in my opinion, the Capricorn would be the better symbol than the buffalo.
But itīs only my opinion.
Regarding the shield devices: Itīs noted by Junkelmann, that often thunderbolts,
wings and lightnings were used as shield devices (Only as additional
information).
I hope that I could help you. Good luck for your Legio, named after my
homecountry and provincia. May the Gods bless you!
Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
> 22 Jully 2000
>
> Salve All
>
> I have a question that I hope you may be able to help me with. We here in
> the Praefecture of Winnipeg are trying to get our Legio off the ground and
> we have come to problem. As history is very unsure as to what Legio I
> Germnaica's Standard/Banner was, we have decided to use an beast that is
> very historic in this part of the world, the Buffalo. We would also like to
> have the head of a Buffalo with a Scutum shield and cross Gladius swords as
> the background. We are trying to keep with history as much as possible, but
> it seems as though, because of the lack of historic evidence on Legio I
> Germanica's Standard/Banner, we may be able to create a new modern symbol
> for our Legio in march under. I am not sure if there is a problem with this.
> Is there anyone that can help us?
>
> Salve
>
> Quintus Sertorius
> Legio I Germanica
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7075/8/_/61050/_/964267652/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Standard for Legio I Germanica |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:08:49 -0500 |
|
22 July 2000
Salve
Here is some more info on Legio I Germanica, it was posted to me from a
different egroup. I hope this to add light to my question. If there is
anyone else that has some idea about this, I will be greatful for the help.
Vale
Quintus Sertroius
The below protion was submited to Roman Army egroup:
According to Keppie's Making Of The Roman Army, The I was formed in
48 BC as one of Caesars Consular series or possibly in 43 as one of
Pansa's series. While the emblem is not known, most of the legions
that were of Caesars Consular series had the bull as an emblem. There
Pansa's series seems to use the pegasus emblem. As the I seems to
have continious service under Octavian, there was probably no
"Agustian reconstitution". Those legions that were reconstituted
recieved the capricorn as an additional emblem.
The emblem is usually a zodiac sign indication a birth month.
Occasionaly one will be awarded one specific to an action the legion
was involved in such as the elephant for the V Alaudae, awarded for
charging elephants at Thapsus in 46.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Standard for Legio I Germanica
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus et Quinto Sertorio S.P.D.
>
> Let me make some remarks to this matter.
>
> A legion during the augustean period had no banner, but an "eagle". The
eagle of
> a legion symbolized the legion as a whole and was honoured in a religious
sense.
> It was an eagle sculpture in gilded silver, perhaps also gold, decorated
with a
> laurelīs wreath and mounted on a pole. The Aquilifer, the eagleīs bearer,
was a
> proofed soldier and held the highest NCO-rank in a legion. The cohorts of
a
> legion had their own signa, standards, held by a signifer. Also, each
legion had
> an own emblem. Legions raised by Caesar often had the bull. The emblems of
> Legions raised by Octavian (so as Legio I Germanica), are often unknown,
but
> Capricorn and Pegasus were sometimes noted.
> So, in my opinion, the Capricorn would be the better symbol than the
buffalo.
> But itīs only my opinion.
>
> Regarding the shield devices: Itīs noted by Junkelmann, that often
thunderbolts,
> wings and lightnings were used as shield devices (Only as additional
> information).
>
> I hope that I could help you. Good luck for your Legio, named after my
> homecountry and provincia. May the Gods bless you!
>
> Valete
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
> Quintus Sertorius schrieb:
>
> > 22 Jully 2000
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > I have a question that I hope you may be able to help me with. We here
in
> > the Praefecture of Winnipeg are trying to get our Legio off the ground
and
> > we have come to problem. As history is very unsure as to what Legio I
> > Germnaica's Standard/Banner was, we have decided to use an beast that is
> > very historic in this part of the world, the Buffalo. We would also like
to
> > have the head of a Buffalo with a Scutum shield and cross Gladius swords
as
> > the background. We are trying to keep with history as much as possible,
but
> > it seems as though, because of the lack of historic evidence on Legio I
> > Germanica's Standard/Banner, we may be able to create a new modern
symbol
> > for our Legio in march under. I am not sure if there is a problem with
this.
> > Is there anyone that can help us?
> >
> > Salve
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> > Legio I Germanica
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/7075/8/_/61050/_/964267652/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7075/8/_/61050/_/964289922/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Reponse to Formosanus |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:23:48 -0700 |
|
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:
> Salve Aeternia!
>
> I would like to think that we are friends, but I must
> say that I was a bit put off by this post of yours.
>
What put you off, exactly?
>
> I was not really planning to post again on this topic,
> inasmuch as I think I defended myself quite adequately from
> the insubstantial accusations that Festus was spouting about
> me.
>
> However your message seemed to me rather inappropriate
> and unfair. *I* have not libeled anyone or tried to destroy
> anybody's good name. Festus has done that to me. If it were
> to be that I might require two posts to fully deal with an
> attack of such a vile nature, I think I might be given the
> right to do so in self-defence. Might I not?
>
> I might ask you why you did not write a message to
> Festus, who is also your personal friend, asking him to stop
> defaming people on the List. Why did you not call for his
> apology rather than try to silence me?
>
Shouldnt this email have gone private to Tink? List moderator, please?
>
> Since I have had to answer this, let me clarify my
> stance to everyone, because some posts seem to show
> misunderstanding: I realise that people have different
> points of view about ethics and etiquette in the chat room.
> It is a slightly confusing situation, socially speaking, so
> honest people can have honest differences. Lurking and even
> making transcripts are not really "spying" *in and of
> themselves*. It is all in how these techniques are used.
>
> If Consul Audens goes into the Taverna to lurk like a
> disguised king to find out what the common civis thinks -
> well that is all to the good. He is noble-souled person not
> seeking anyone's harm, but only good for all. When, however,
> someone goes there to find things to use in a dishonest
> manner to discredit political opponents or personal enemies
> - whichever Festus thinks of me as -, then it is the intent
> and use of information gathered that makes the difference.
>
> I don't think I took Festus' expert little satire of my
> arguments badly. But I do take his lies about me badly.
>
> Although an investigation is now being carried on into
> the matter by by the Consuls, continuing the work of
> Senator T. Labienus Fortunatus, which may later disprove my
> words, as far as *I* see the evidence at the moment, the
> whole excitement in the July 20th Affair was instigated by
> Festus, who sought to stir up Sulla against Piscinus and
> myself, just as it was he who later attacked me here.
>
Actually your wrong Formosanus, AGAIN, there is no investigation, I asked
for mediation, there is a substantial difference between mediation and
investigation. I have asked the Senate for someone to act as a non-partial
non-biased mediator. Fortunatus volunteered. Since then he is trying to
work a compromise between my side and the side of those in the Taverna. I
have told this to you Formosanus yesterday and a few days ago in private
email and you failed to grasp it. Hopefully now on the main list you will
see exactly what is going on. There is no investigation other than trying
to find out the facts from all sides. :)
>
> Sulla has not believed the accusations of Festus against
> me, perhaps because he knows me better than in the past due
> to my scribal work for him, and understands that to act in
> that manner would be contrary to my character. I think that
> the immediate initiative in the chain of malicious events
> beginning in the Taverna was almost surely taken by Festus,
> rather than Sulla. Just as Sulla has always maintained, he
> merely reacted to the actions of Festus in a natural manner.
> What allegiances motivated Festus, if any, are still to be
> determined by the Labienian Investigation, now taken over by
> the Consuls.
>
I believe what Festus forwarded me was true and accurate. It is with that
belief and knowledge I went to the Senate to ask for mediation. I trust
Festus, when he emailed me with what was afoot, I asked him to give me more
information. With that information I immediately went to the Senate. I see
no one accusing Festus, of lying or expanding what was said in the Taverna,
therefore Festus is in my opinion to be trusted. Those in the Taverna are
the ones who acted like friends, ie. Piscinus, and that day in the Taverna
he showed his true colors in regards to me. The other people in there, such
as Vado, we already know we really dont like each other, so what was said,
isnt a big deal. But, for the sake of Nova Roma, and since some of these
might in the future become hopefully honorable citizens and magistrates of
Nova Roma, I have made a concillatory effort to bring a truce.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Drawn-out discussions (was Response to Formosanus) |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Jul 2000 21:32:49 -0000 |
|
> Shouldnt this email have gone private to Tink? List moderator,
please?
Yes. It is within the power of ANY participant in a debate or
discussion to take that discussion to private e-mail when it has gone
past the point where it is providing information to the rest of us.
On behalf of the rest of us, let me reiterate that a message intended
for one people (or even a small group) should go to its intended
recipient(s) privately rather than to the main list, UNLESS you are
providing factual information that might benefit the rest of us.
On another eGroup which I administer, I have set the list preferences
so that replies automatically go to the sender rather than the list.
That way, the sender has to spend a little time making sure the
message
goes to the whole group - a few seconds in which to reflect, "Does
everyone need to see this?"
I am considering changing this group's settings to do the same thing,
but am open to feedback from list members. If anyone has opinions on
this, please send them to me privately.
Patricia Cassia
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