Subject: [novaroma] Conversations with Formosanus
From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 17:40:54 -0700
Salvete Citizens of Nova Roma

In the latest rounds of emails about this unfortuante incident in the Taverna, I have been conversing with Formosanus. Given my reading of the Transcripts, and discussing with Formosanus via email and AIM conversations. I am completely satisfied that he did not share his AIM conversations that I had with him to any third party.

In an effort to bring reconciliation, I felt that I should clarify, my own opinion to the People of Nova Roma. Again, my concern, is for the overall health and stability of Nova Roma. And that is the reason why I called for mediation.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


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Subject: [novaroma] Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: websurfer07@--------
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 04:07:48 -0000
Ave omnes,


I'm looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life, and
religion. I'm not so much interested in history as incite into diet,
work, learning, religious life, life in the country, the city, the
life of slaves, life in the provinces etc.
If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to e-mail. I
would also like to know of any particularly interesting basic history
book on Rome. I know Michael Grant is popular. Any others?

Thank you



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Subject: [novaroma] Good News
From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:44:01 +0200
Salvete Quirites!

A short time ago Censor L. Cornelius Sulla Felix posted
here, correcting the misimpression that some of you may have
had that he thought I really had broken the accepted rules
of internet etiquette. He was in fact just saying that the
transcripts of the Taverna conversation were accurate, not
that the accusations against me were true.

Both he and I assume that the transcripts are accurate,
but of course they do not actually say I did anything wrong
unless one makes the interpretative assumptions that Festus
made. Censor Sulla has said that he does *not* make those
unjustified assumptions, and I thank him for it. It is good
to have one's name cleared by someone so obviously in a
position to know my innocence. I am grateful!

After rather long conversations with Lucius Cornelius it
was possible to work out a lot of things that had stood
between us and to dispel various misunderstandings and
suspicions. I think it is obvious now from his dissociation
of himself from the accusations of Festus against me that he
was not a part of any plot or conspiracy against me or the
others in the Taverna. He did no more than react to the
uncomplimentary words Festus reported to him, spoken by
non-admirers in the Taverna, and no one can blame him for
that.

I think that people with strong personal things to say
against others will in the future have learned their lesson,
and say those things in true privacy instead of where they
may be overheard in a manner upsetting the tranquility of
the Respublica unnecessarily.

We have for a long time had a regrettable division in
our political life centred on the treatment of Lucius Marius
Aurelianus by our Censor. Certainly the Censor and I have
had our differences over this problem! But, perhaps as a
result of my suggestion, Marius, despite his long sufferings
and with the greatest magnanimity, apologised to the Censor
for (I must suppose) anything said to or about him which
might have seemed personally hurtful. The good Censor, in
turn responding to this gesture with the same magnanimity,
assured me personally that if Marius came to him with the
already agreed-upon documentation, he would indeed process
it normally under the provisions of the Edictum de Nominibus
Mutandis. He has said similar things to me in the past, but
in such a manner that it was more discouraging than not.
This time he used no fewer than two smilies in telling me
this. I sensed a great easing of the tensions and ill will
that had subsisted in everything connected with this matter
for so long.

Sulla reacted to the Taverna crisis partly by calling
for a mediator to effect reconciliation - a constructive
action that more of us could well emulate. And now his
good-natured willingness to forgive and put the wounds of
his last accidental confrontation with Marius behind him,
and carry out the new legal provisions for his
reincorporation into our community - whenever Marius is
psychologically and legally prepared for that - has removed
that issue as well as an obstacle in having good relations
with him, and should make a large part of the NR citizenry
feel happier with our Censor, and very relieved that this
sore on the body of our Respublica is now healing at last.

Two actions which have shown such moderation and desire
for Concordia in our Respublica should be received with the
proper appreciation by all of us, and I would like to be the
first to applaud Censor Sulla for them.

It is my hope and the hope of Censor Sulla as well that
at this point in time there might be a lowering of tensions
within Nova Roma and a renewed commitment of us all to
working together for the common good. As Sulla and I have so
often been at loggerheads in the past, I hope that my words
of reconciliation with him will carry all the more weight.

I regret that our local satirist and fabulist, Festus,
still is separated from this process of reconciliation by
his rather extreme and unwarranted attack on me and my good
name. I must admit that in that private letter to Graecus
which he posted by accident to this list, I described Festus
as a "loose cannon". I now formally express my regret that
through no act or intention of my own this was seen by him
or the public to his discomfiture or detriment. Sorry,
Festus! I have seen Festus, too, apologise most graciously,
to Vado and Britannia, and I would certainly be willing to
shake virtual hands with him if he apologised to me in the
same generous way and admitted that his arbitrary assumption
about my alleged wrongdoing was unjustified.

I hope that the labours of conciliation carried out by
Senator Labienus (whom I would like to warmly thank!),
Sulla, Marius and myself will lead to a new tranquility -
for a while at least - in the Respublica, so that I can get
back to writing Latin lessons for you instead of defending
myself against trumped-up charges. [And have you done your
homework with those plurals :-) ? The answers are coming
soon.]

Excuse another of my long posts. I hope that it will be
welcome, though, because of its good news for Nova Roma. I
ask everyone particularly to show moderation in attacking
others, and liberality in the public appreciation of one
another's constructive labours. Sulla and I now join in
saying to everyone: SVMVS OMNES NOVOROMANI! (We are all Nova
Romans!) Sit Pax - Let there be Peace.

Valete!

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis et Candidatus
Scriba Censorius
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
________________________________________________________

Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
________________________________________________________



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Subject: [novaroma] [Fwd: Investigation]
From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:49:38 +0200


--
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Scriba Censorius
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
________________________________________________________

Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
[Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
________________________________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject: Re: [novaroma] [Fwd: Investigation]
From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:31:27 -0700
Ave!

Formosanus that didint work. Let me post it for you,

The following is a post from Senator Fortunatus in regards to the mediation
and some other issues that have proped up. Before anyone comments, I was
Carbon copied this email from the Good Senator.

__________________
Begin Email.

T Labienus M Apollonio S P D

I fear that I have unintentionally misled you, and for that I
apologize. I am Cc'ing Sulla because it seems that the misperception I
have allowed to exist has added yet more difficulties to your coming to
an understanding.

In my second e-mail to you, I wrote, "Earlier today, I received a
response from Piscinus which included some evidence concerning Sulla's
possible complicity with Festus' eavesdropping. In light of that
evidence, I withdraw my argument against calling for an investigation
into the matter. Indeed, I encourage you in that action and am willing
to help expedite matters in whatever way I can."

Due to the answers I have found to my questions, I no longer believe it
likely, as I did after seeing Piscinus' evidence for the first time,
that Sulla maliciously colluded with Festus to spy upon you. The letter
I sent then was an offer to help you find out whether there was
substance to your suspicions. My later missives argued against those
suspicions. In retrospect, I should have explicitly stated that this
new opinion was due to the evidence I had seen since that time.

Later, I said in a message to you, "I perceive a misconception on
Piscinus' and your part, which I feel bound to clear up. I have not been
officially tasked to conduct any investigation by any person. I am
seeking the truth purely due to my personal desire to know what it is.
My involvement in this began due to Sulla's request for help in the form
of a moderator, and nothing more. That said, should I find some kind of
conspiracy or deliberate wrong-doing, I will most assuredly do my best
to put things to rights."

In re-reading the above, I realize that it is possible to construe it
differently than I intended. Therefore, I shall state it another way.
I am not pursuing a consular investigation. My investigation is
entirely personal, and I am not reporting to anyone on the matter. If
and only if I uncover some strong evidence of wrong-doing shall I inform
the Senate and magistrates of my findings. I still have as my primary
goal an acceptable (I'd prefer amicable, but am doubtful of that at this
point) solution to the acrimony between you and Sulla.

Again, you have my deepest apologies for presenting my intentions and
purpose imperfectly. Please feel free to forward this message to the
main list if you would prefer my apology to you to occur in a more
public manner.

Vale

_______________________
End email

"M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:

> --
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Scriba Censorius
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> ________________________________________________________
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> http://click.egroups.com/1/7080/8/_/61050/_/964335009/
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Subject: [novaroma] Exhibition Announcement
From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:12:25 +0200
Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

There is an interesting exhibition in the Museum Speyer, Germany:

>From 9th July 2000 bis 1st October 2000

"Gladiatoren und Caesaren", die Macht der Unterhaltung im antiken Rom
(Gladiators and Caesars, The Power of Entertainment in the antique Rome)

Itīs open the whole week from 10:00 am to 07:00 pm
Entrance fee: 12,-DM, Families (parents with childs): 25,-DM
Students until the age of 16 years 4,-DM.

More info (in German):
http://www.museum.speyer.de/page2.htm

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Legatus Germaniae




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Subject: Re: [novaroma] Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: "Lauriat" <blauriat@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:15:09 -0400
For reading on daily Roman life you should definitely try Joanne Shelton's
As the Roman's Did. It's an excellent sourcebook dealing with Roman social
history and I know at least two non-classicists who read and enjoyed it.
Michael Grant's history is popular, however I personally dislike it. It was
assigned to supplement a class I took and I found the organization
irritating and the presentation grating . I also found several mistakes (on
dates etc.). Unfortunately, as one of my professors commented, there just
aren't any good, recently written, comprehensive Roman histories around
these days.

-Lauria Maria


----- Original Message -----
From: <websurfer07@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 12:07 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life


> Ave omnes,
>
>
> I'm looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life, and
> religion. I'm not so much interested in history as incite into diet,
> work, learning, religious life, life in the country, the city, the
> life of slaves, life in the provinces etc.
> If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to e-mail. I
> would also like to know of any particularly interesting basic history
> book on Rome. I know Michael Grant is popular. Any others?
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> BTW: Did you buy that new car yet?
> If not, check this site out.
> They're called CarsDirect.com and it's a pretty sweet way to buy a car.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6847/8/_/61050/_/964325274/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


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Subject: [novaroma] Old Latin Book
From: Megas-Robinson <amgunn@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:30:58 -0500
Avete Omnes,

Venator scripsit:

Have just received the book from my mom (she cooks for her parish priest and he was cleaning out the
rectory library, I also received a copy of the Latin Mass, if anyone is intereted in a
transcript...)

"Guide to Latin Conversation" by "A Father of the Society of Jesus", Prof. Stephen W. Wilby -
Translator. It was published in 1892 by the John Murphy Company of Baltimore, Maryland (USA).

I have a copy of the first edition, it appears. It is physically a small book, only 9 cm by 13 and
2.5 thick. It is complete, except the front flyleaf and Table of Contents, at 513 pages including
index (though several pages are blank, a printer's error).

Anyone familiar with this book? Is a "Church Latin" text of use in learning the Classic, Elder
Tongue?

Mille Gratias - venii

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Subject: Re: [novaroma] Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: Megas-Robinson <amgunn@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:00:23 -0500
Ave A. Nonius Mus,

Venator scripsit,

>
> From: <websurfer07@-------->
>
> Ave omnes,
>
> I'm looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life, and
> religion. I'm not so much interested in history as incite into diet,
> work, learning, religious life, life in the country, the city, the
> life of slaves, life in the provinces etc.
> If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to e-mail. I
> would also like to know of any particularly interesting basic history
> book on Rome. I know Michael Grant is popular. Any others?
>
> Thank you
>

A book I picked up used 15 or so years ago you may find in the local public or univesity library.

"Daily Life in Ancient Rome: The People and the City at the Height of the Empire" by Jerome
Carcopino, edited with bibliography and notes by Henry T. Rowell and translated from the French by
E. O. Lorimer. Published in 1940 by Yale Ubiversity Pres of New Haven, Connecticutt (USA) and
London, England. I have a copy of the Thirteenth printing, December 1964.

Part I of the book is titled 'Physical and Moral Background of Roman Life', with Sections broken
into Chapters (one section's chapters are listed herein): I. The Extent and Population of the City
(Splendor of the Urbs, Precincts of Rome and the City's True Extent, Growth of the City's
Population), II. Houses and Streets, III. Society and Social Classes, IV. Marriage, Women and the
Family, V. Education and Religion.

Part II being styled 'The Day's Routine', its Sections being: VI. The Morning, VII. Ocupations,
VIII. Shows and Spectacles and IX. Afternoon and Evening.

Plus Sources of Information (Bibliography), Notes and Index. In all, 353 pages

I should think that it was well done for it's time. I find it useful.

In Amicus - Venii

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Subject: [novaroma] Re: Reading on daily Roman life
From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:16:36 -0000
> I'm looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life, and
> religion. I'm not so much interested in history as incite into
diet,
> work, learning, religious life, life in the country, the city, the
> life of slaves, life in the provinces etc.

Two books I found enlightening during my research into Roman
marriages
are "The Family in Ancient Rome," edited by Beryl Rawson, and
"Women's
Life in Greece and Rome," which has primary sources in English
translations.

Patricia Cassia



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Subject: [novaroma] Re: Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: " Sheridan" <legioix@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:22:22 -0000
Check out the children's section of a large bookstore.. lots of stuff!

Also ....
Everyday Life in Roman and Anglo Saxon Times, Quennell

Everyday Life in Ancient Rome, Cowell

Roman Forts, Johnson

Leadership and Community in Late Antique Gaul, Van Dam

Life in Roman Britain, A. Birley

As The Romans Did, Shelton

Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome, Adkins

.....many many more.

Hibernicus
Legio IX Hispana



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Subject: [novaroma] just a few thoughts
From: wicachu@--------
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:59:20 EDT
I do not think any of you know me. I am not yet a citizen,as my
application has not yet been approved. I have been reading the digests with
great interest, looking to learn the " lay of the land" and to see what
kinds of things are the norm on the list.
From my spot out here on the fringes of the community, it it obvious that
this community is populated , by in large, by intelligent and highly
opinionated people to whom honor is very important.
Unfortunately, wth opinions and intelligence, comes a high risk of
running afoul of anothers equally valid opinions. On the 'net, there is
precious little way to indicate ones true intent when communicating. Tone of
voice, inflection and body language are all lost. A joke becomes an insult in
seconds, a minor disagreement a firestorm of controversy. It would seem,
from what I have seen, that what is so common among intelligentsia is true
here as well, that there is a high premium on being understood, but less so
on understanding at times. Having "honor" can actually become a detriment to
the community at times if it wreaks havoc with ones own common sense.
I most certainly do not mean any offense by saying this. I merely mean
to offer yet another opinion to be taken or left as one sees fit. All I mean
to say is that when one TRULY understands where the other is coming from
before a response is given... many times... no response is really needed.
Just my thoughts. Your mileage may indeed vary .

May what you truly seek, find you.

Britaega

< heads back to her corner >

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Subject: Re: [novaroma] just a few thoughts
From: scott dolleck <sdolzg@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:23:45 -0700 (PDT)
bravo...

Lucius Gabrielius Tribunis
(also waiting for membership to be approved.)


__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [novaroma] just a few thoughts
From: "Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:53:54 +0100
Salve Britaega

Itane vero? (Ain't that the truth?)

I am glad, Britaega, that, even so, you still wish to join us. Such wise
counsel is always welcome!

Bene vale

N. Moravius Vado.

> I do not think any of you know me. I am not yet a citizen,as my
> application has not yet been approved. I have been reading the digests
with
> great interest, looking to learn the " lay of the land" and to see what
> kinds of things are the norm on the list.
> From my spot out here on the fringes of the community, it it obvious
that
> this community is populated , by in large, by intelligent and highly
> opinionated people to whom honor is very important.
> Unfortunately, wth opinions and intelligence, comes a high risk of
> running afoul of anothers equally valid opinions. On the 'net, there is
> precious little way to indicate ones true intent when communicating. Tone
of
> voice, inflection and body language are all lost. A joke becomes an insult
in
> seconds, a minor disagreement a firestorm of controversy. It would seem,
> from what I have seen, that what is so common among intelligentsia is true
> here as well, that there is a high premium on being understood, but less
so
> on understanding at times. Having "honor" can actually become a detriment
to
> the community at times if it wreaks havoc with ones own common sense.
> I most certainly do not mean any offense by saying this. I merely
mean
> to offer yet another opinion to be taken or left as one sees fit. All I
mean
> to say is that when one TRULY understands where the other is coming from
> before a response is given... many times... no response is really needed.
> Just my thoughts. Your mileage may indeed vary .
>
> May what you truly seek, find you.
>
> Britaega
>
> < heads back to her corner >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To email plain text is conventional, to add graphics is divine.
> We'll show you how at www.supersig.com.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6811/8/_/61050/_/964378774/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


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Subject: [novaroma] Re: Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: websurfer07@--------
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:46:39 -0000
--- In novaroma@--------, " Sheridan" <legioix@p...> wrote:
> Check out the children's section of a large bookstore.. lots of
stuff!
>
> Also ....
> Everyday Life in Roman and Anglo Saxon Times, Quennell
>
> Everyday Life in Ancient Rome, Cowell
>
> Roman Forts, Johnson
>
> Leadership and Community in Late Antique Gaul, Van Dam
>
> Life in Roman Britain, A. Birley
>
> As The Romans Did, Shelton
>
> Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome, Adkins
>
> .....many many more.
>

Has anyone read "History of Private Life: From Pagan Rome to
Byzantium (Vol.1)" by Paul Veyne? It sounds interesting. I was
wondering if anyone had any opinions on it.
> Hibernicus
> Legio IX Hispana


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Subject: [novaroma] Re(Novaroma) just a few thoughts
From: "Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:41:06 +0100
Salve Britaega

Itane vero? (Ain't that the truth?)

I am glad, Britaega, that, even so, you still wish to join us. Such wise
counsel is always welcome!

Bene vale

N. Moravius Vado.

>>I do not think any of you know me. I am not yet a citizen,as my
> > application has not yet been approved. I have been reading the digests
> with
> > great interest, looking to learn the " lay of the land" and to see what
> > kinds of things are the norm on the list.
> > From my spot out here on the fringes of the community, it it obvious
> that
> > this community is populated , by in large, by intelligent and highly
> > opinionated people to whom honor is very important.
> > Unfortunately, wth opinions and intelligence, comes a high risk of
> > running afoul of anothers equally valid opinions. On the 'net, there is
> > precious little way to indicate ones true intent when communicating.
Tone
> of
> > voice, inflection and body language are all lost. A joke becomes an
insult
> in
> > seconds, a minor disagreement a firestorm of controversy. It would
seem,
> > from what I have seen, that what is so common among intelligentsia is
true
> > here as well, that there is a high premium on being understood, but less
> so
> > on understanding at times. Having "honor" can actually become a
detriment
> to
> > the community at times if it wreaks havoc with ones own common sense.
> > I most certainly do not mean any offense by saying this. I merely
> mean
> > to offer yet another opinion to be taken or left as one sees fit. All I
> mean
> > to say is that when one TRULY understands where the other is coming from
> > before a response is given... many times... no response is really
needed.
> > Just my thoughts. Your mileage may indeed vary .
> >
> > May what you truly seek, find you.
> >
> > Britaega
> >
> > < heads back to her corner >



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Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: "Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:53:52 +0100
Salve Hibernice

Read it last year. Recommended.

Vado.


> Has anyone read "History of Private Life: From Pagan Rome to
> Byzantium (Vol.1)" by Paul Veyne? It sounds interesting. I was
> wondering if anyone had any opinions on it.
> > Hibernicus
> > Legio IX Hispana



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Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Looking for suggested reading on daily Roman life
From: <gmvick32@-------->
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:23:59 -0600
I have that book....it's interesting, although I have to admit I've really
only skimmed it since it seems to focus more on Roman settlements in Africa
and the Middle East than on Rome itself. It seemed like sort of a sideways
glance, and also starts fairly late if I recall.

L. Cornelia Aurelia



websurfer07@-------- wrote:

> --- In novaroma@--------, " Sheridan" <legioix@p...> wrote:
> > Check out the children's section of a large bookstore.. lots of
> stuff!
> >
> > Also ....
> > Everyday Life in Roman and Anglo Saxon Times, Quennell
> >
> > Everyday Life in Ancient Rome, Cowell
> >
> > Roman Forts, Johnson
> >
> > Leadership and Community in Late Antique Gaul, Van Dam
> >
> > Life in Roman Britain, A. Birley
> >
> > As The Romans Did, Shelton
> >
> > Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome, Adkins
> >
> > .....many many more.
> >
>
> Has anyone read "History of Private Life: From Pagan Rome to
> Byzantium (Vol.1)" by Paul Veyne? It sounds interesting. I was
> wondering if anyone had any opinions on it.
> > Hibernicus
> > Legio IX Hispana
>
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