Re: Appius Marcellus Cato /scuola umbra
Marcus Attilius Appio Marcello sautem dicit.
the translation of "Scuola Umbra" is simply : the the school of umbria.( the most central region of Italy, It's also called The green heart of Italy. The most impotant city of this regione is Perugia; and then Assisi , Todi ,Gubbio ecc ecc. ) I belive the scuola umbra is in relation with the pictorial school of 1300's 1400's . Is it true?
Sorry but with my english I cannot tell you more.
Vale.
Marcus Attilius Reg.
novaroma@-------- ha scritto:
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> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
> 2. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
> 3. Re:Festus and Britannia
> From: Claudius Nigellus <app_cl_lucentius_nigellus@-------->
> 4. Roman Bread - Panis Militaris
> From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
> 5. ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XII Kalendas Sextilias (July 21st)
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
> 6. Re: Latin language dead?
> From: "M G" <fresco@-------->
> 7. Re: More on Reproduction Furniture
> From: " Sheridan" <legioix@-------->
> 8. places to get roman clothes...
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> 9. Help With Translation
> From: "Robert Williamson" <robert@-------->
> 10. Out of Town
> From: jmath669642reng@--------
> 11. Re: Out of Town
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> 12. Re: Questions on holding a Roman gathering
> From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
> 13. Strength and Honor Spring Festival 2001
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> 14. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: labienus@--------
> 15. Lurking etc.
> From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
> 16. Re: places to get roman clothes...
> From: "C Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@-------->
> 17. Re: Help With Translation
> From: "Chad Kieffer" <ckieffe@-------->
> 18. Re: Strength and Honor Spring Festival 2001
> From: "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <trog99@-------->
> 19. To L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola
> From: Piscinus@--------
> 20. Re: To L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> 21. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: "Little Dragon" <fionaerin@-------->
> 22. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> 23. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
> 24. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
> 25. Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:23:37 +0200
> From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
> Subject: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> Piscinus.
>
> Respondeo:
>
> 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> point. We are not personal friends. :-)
>
> 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> insofar as I can remember.
>
> The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
>
> But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> is:
> _____________________
> > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> sad.
> > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you.
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > >
> > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
>
> In detail:
>
> "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
>
> There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> "AIMs" anywhere.
>
> " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> fulminations to you."
>
> That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> does not "fulminate".
>
> But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> the evidence to show otherwise.
>
> I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> thanks, Graece.
>
> Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
>
> The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> snippets and discredit political opponents.
>
> Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> systematically gather information to attack political
> opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> Quirites.
>
> I have already been urging the involved people I have
> been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> Curatrix Sermonis.
>
> We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> public answer here?
>
> Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> with regard to this July 20 Affair.
>
> You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> keeping :-)
>
> Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus
> _____________________________
> Festus wrote:
>
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> From: Lykaion1@--------
> Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
>
> Salvete,
>
> This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> print it out and
> read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> Roma citizens,
> and non-citizens alike.
>
> There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> if it is not
> illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> this post to
> both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> you can just as easily be victimized
>
> There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> taverna, and
> the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> conversations that take place there.
>
> Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> chatroom is a
> public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> Beseen.com
> and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> television or radio.
> When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> friend' is there
> reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> tells someone
> else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> made any more public than it
> already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
>
> However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> PRIVATE
> communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> who would
> post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> forums.
> There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> opinionating. For
> example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> Gaius Festus.
>
> I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> problems with it. In
> fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> real ethical
> crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> communications
> were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
>
> The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
>
> From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> left, I copied the
> entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> it may have a
> copy emailed from me.
>
> Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> Formosanus have
> been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
>
> The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> have not edited
> it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> emailing me.
>
> Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> Aeternia
> Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> statements.
>
> I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
>
> Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> long
> winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> iustitia, etc.
> Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> these virtues?
>
> Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> much time on
> your hands that you can spread private communications to
> others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> sir?
>
> How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> Have you
> informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
>
> I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> any commitee or other posts
> they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> should remain private citizens only.
>
> I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> punitive
> action against these men.
>
> For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> acquaintances.
> They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> severed.
>
> So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> Here is one.
> Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> they may end up! :}
>
> For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> Piscinus and
> Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
>
> This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> warning. Do as you
> like with it.
>
> Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
>
> --
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Scriba Censorius
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> ________________________________________________________
>
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> ________________________________________________________
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:59:15 -0700
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> Salve
>
> Actually I was not in the taverna at all. I was notifed by email by Festus
> what was going on. He sent me the transcripts of everything and I turned it
> over to the Senate of Nova Roma. Giving them full disclosoure and asking
> for a mediator within the Senate to settle this affair. An affair, I might
> add I did not start or contribute too.
>
> There is no Lex, Senatus Consultum or Edictum in Nova Roma that states that
> the Taverna's conversations are private. Nor is there a way to prevent such
> measures. That is one of the reasons why I have been a major propoent in
> switching Chatrooms. I am tired of all this back handed dealings. Do I
> like being abused and disrespected in the Taverna, without my knowledge?
> No, I do not. Now, as I responded to Formosanus privately, if I was going
> to go to the Taverna and before I said "Salve" I saw all of this abuse going
> on relating to me, would I actually say "Salve?", would you if you were in
> that position? Probably not.
>
> I have sent all of the documentation I have gotten from Festus to the
> Senate, why? Becuase I am trying to solve this amicably, without bias and
> with a non-partial mediator. As I have stated earlier today in response to
> Vado's apology, we are all working for the betterment of Nova Roma. Even if
> we disagree the goals are the same. However, abuse and conspiracies are not
> a way to go about it. I have gotten my information from someone who was
> there.
>
> And, finally, I do not employ spies. Concerned citizens have come to me out
> of their own free will and gave me this inforamtion. Just as citizens came
> to me about any other issues. This is no different. What does it look like
> to any newbies or prospective citizens who strole into the Taverna after
> seeing the NR site.....then to come face to face with a bunch of citizens
> disrespecting a magistrate who was elected by the People? I guess they dont
> care about their own digintas, let alone the digintas of Nova Roma. Well I
> do, and that is why I went to the Senate of Nova Roma to seek mediation.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> "M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:
>
> > Salvete Quirites!
> >
> > I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> > AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> > Piscinus.
> >
> > Respondeo:
> >
> > 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> > fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> > from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> > point. We are not personal friends. :-)
> >
> > 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> > Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> > insofar as I can remember.
> >
> > The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> > in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> > directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> > Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> > collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> > preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> > means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> > opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> > (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> > affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
> >
> > But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> > shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> > show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> > is:
> > _____________________
> > > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> > with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> > sad.
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you.
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> > Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> >
> > In detail:
> >
> > "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
> >
> > There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> > "AIMs" anywhere.
> >
> > " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you."
> >
> > That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> > quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> > does not "fulminate".
> >
> > But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> > that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> > conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> > good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> > including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> > people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> > Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> > of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> > the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> > the evidence to show otherwise.
> >
> > I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> > Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> > Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> > Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> > thanks, Graece.
> >
> > Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> > sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> > himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
> >
> > The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> > grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> > observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> > culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> > and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> > myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> > later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> > that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> > even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> > snippets and discredit political opponents.
> >
> > Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> > recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> > systematically gather information to attack political
> > opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> > Quirites.
> >
> > I have already been urging the involved people I have
> > been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> > were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> > mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> > of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> > on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> > different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> > consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> > Curatrix Sermonis.
> >
> > We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> > preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> > to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> > public answer here?
> >
> > Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> > official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> > with regard to this July 20 Affair.
> >
> > You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> > said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> > flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> > dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> > one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> > against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> > restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> > name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> > successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> > Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> > 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> > only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> > keeping :-)
> >
> > Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> > *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> > investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> > considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> > proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> > words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> > common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> > flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> > collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> > If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> > judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
> >
> > M. Apollonius Formosanus
> > _____________________________
> > Festus wrote:
> >
> > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> > From: Lykaion1@--------
> > Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> > print it out and
> > read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> > Roma citizens,
> > and non-citizens alike.
> >
> > There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> > if it is not
> > illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> > this post to
> > both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> > already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> > you can just as easily be victimized
> >
> > There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> > taverna, and
> > the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> > the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> > room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> > conversations that take place there.
> >
> > Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> > chatroom is a
> > public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> > Beseen.com
> > and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> > rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> > chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> > television or radio.
> > When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> > friend' is there
> > reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> > tells someone
> > else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> > spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> > made any more public than it
> > already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> > command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> > "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
> >
> > However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> > PRIVATE
> > communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> > who would
> > post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> > further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> > forums.
> > There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> > opinionating. For
> > example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> > son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> > may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> > robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> > you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> > Gaius Festus.
> >
> > I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> > problems with it. In
> > fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> > real ethical
> > crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> > communications
> > were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> > is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
> >
> > The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
> >
> > From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> > left, I copied the
> > entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> > it may have a
> > copy emailed from me.
> >
> > Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> > Formosanus have
> > been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> > from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> > then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> > than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> > AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> > morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> > Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> > after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> > her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> > internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> > send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> > strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> > had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> > that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> > checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> > private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> > Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
> >
> > The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> > have not edited
> > it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> > emailing me.
> >
> > Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> > Aeternia
> > Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> > Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> > of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> > simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> > all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> > statements.
> >
> > I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
> >
> > Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> > long
> > winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> > iustitia, etc.
> > Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> > private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> > these virtues?
> >
> > Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> > much time on
> > your hands that you can spread private communications to
> > others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> > demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> > is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> > sir?
> >
> > How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> > Have you
> > informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
> >
> > I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> > apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> > any commitee or other posts
> > they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> > should remain private citizens only.
> >
> > I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> > punitive
> > action against these men.
> >
> > For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> > acquaintances.
> > They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> > ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> > severed.
> >
> > So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> > Here is one.
> > Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> > not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> > do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> > resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> > vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> > forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> > and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> > worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> > not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> > needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> > I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> > they may end up! :}
> >
> > For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> > Piscinus and
> > Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> > friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
> >
> > This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> > warning. Do as you
> > like with it.
> >
> > Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
> >
> > --
> > Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> > Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> > Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Scriba Censorius
> > Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> > ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> > http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> > The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> > AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> > Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> > [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shoes? On the web?
> > Click Here!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/7061/8/_/61050/_/964167849/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:49:31 +0100 (BST)
> From: Claudius Nigellus <app_cl_lucentius_nigellus@-------->
> Subject: Re:Festus and Britannia
>
> Salvete Feste et alii
>
> As one of those who had called publicly for an apology
> from you, I readily accept it in the spirit in which
> it was offered.
>
> When discussions become heated, the exchange of harsh
> or ill-chosen words becomes all too easy. To realize
> this in calmer moments and subsequently seek to make
> amends for them is much more difficult. That your
> Romanitas has reasserted itself and allowed you to
> come forward and face this task is to be applauded,
> for in so doing you have helped restore a measure of
> civility and goodwill to this list.
>
> It is a shame, therefore, that you feel unable to
> participate in this forum any further, though, given
> the nature of the allegations you have made, I
> understand your reasons. I wish you well in your
> contemplations away from Nova Roma, however long they
> may be.
>
> Valete
>
> Appius Claudius Lucentius Nigellus
>
> Legatus Cymricae Mediaeque
> Provincia Britanniae
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:47:30 +0200
> From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
> Subject: Roman Bread - Panis Militaris
>
> Salvete, Quirites,
> Salve, Lucilla Cornelia Aurelia Antonina,
> Salve, Iulia,
>
> there are two receipts for military bread - panis militaris - which I
> found in the literature. Please, don´t ask how it smells - I hadn´t the
> chance to bake it (I´m a poor cook or baker) or to test it. But I think
> it may smell alike the roman bread I described.
>
> 1st receipt:
>
> 500 grams mealed Wheat
> 300 gr. warmed Water
> 20 gr. Salt
> 20 gr.Yeast
> when available also onions or honey.
>
> Make a dough from the ingredients. Mix it well and let it rise "near the
> fire" (on a warm place) for around 20 minutes. Then mix the dough again
> and give it on the stone or into a pot for baking. Bake it between 30
> and 50 minutes.
>
> If you bake the bread a second time, you will get "Bucellatum" (rusk).
>
> 2nd receipt:
>
> 1 kg mealed Wheat or "Dinkel", also possible rye or barley (the
> deliviring of barley to a unit was a punishment)
> 0,5 kg Water
> Salt (no weight was given)
>
> Also make a dough from all that. Bake it on a heated brick.
>
> So, honoured Lucilla Cornelia and Iulia, these are my two short
> receipts.
>
> Valete,
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:44:16 +0100
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
> Subject: ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XII Kalendas Sextilias (July 21st)
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> This is a dies nefastus publicus (NP), a day for special religious
> observance on which no legal action or public business can take place.
>
> Today is the second and last day of the Lucaria which take place on July 19
> and July
> 21. The exact meaning is since long forgotten, but the feast is probably in
> honour of the deity of the grove (lucus), that stood on the Capitoline Hill
> between the Arx and the Capitol, where the Asylum had been delineated by
> Romulus. The third of the original tribes of Romans, the Luceres, took their
> name from this grove, where the stateless fugitives, slaves and outlaws,
> were received into Romulus' protection. The other tribes, the Ramnenes and
> Tatienses, took their names from Romulus and Tatius, respectively. The
> Ramnenes would have been the Albans and the Titienses the Sabines. The
> Luceres would have been composed of the "Other", the uncategorized
> foreigners accepted in Rome.
> The Lucaria must then have celebrated the deity of the grove, Asylaeus, and
> who was the collective tutelary dity of the Luceres.
> The celebration consisted on a ritual clearing up of the woods and fences,
> cutting and burning the shrubs. So, the feast can also have been the
> celebration of all the Genii Loci, the spirits of the places, woods and
> groves, close to Leucaria (mother of Roma) and Rhea Silvia (mother of
> Romulus and Remus).
>
> The month of Quinctilis was renamed Iulius in 44 BCE in honour of the
> deified C. Iulius Caesar. This month is sacred to Iuppiter.
>
> Pax Deorum vobiscum
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:12:49 +0300
> From: "M G" <fresco@-------->
> Subject: Re: Latin language dead?
>
> Salve.
> Compliments for your message,
> but there is no signature.
> Please which is your name ?
> Vale bene.
> Marcus Prometheus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <netsurferjg3@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, 20 July, 2000 1:20 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Latin language dead?
>
> > > As for Latin being a dead language?
> > Latin, like a lot of other languages, NEVER died. It just
> > evolved. It gave birth to Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese,
> > Catalan, and Roumanian. The Roman legacy is enduring.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:59:52 -0000
> From: " Sheridan" <legioix@-------->
> Subject: Re: More on Reproduction Furniture
>
> Very afforable clay lamps:
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~Oil_Lamps/re.htm
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:09:10 EDT
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> Subject: places to get roman clothes...
>
> I first wanted to thank everyone for the links to info/sites to furniture
> sites, etc.. Now all I need to do is sell my house and build a villa to
> fill it with all the great stuff I am finding!!!
>
> I wanted to start a dialoge on roman clothing if I may, As the commander of
> a legion, I am always looking for new places to give my men and thier
> families a choice as where to get clothes.
>
> I use Ana's Accouterments at www.sewfits.com, she is fantastic and I am
> very happy with her work.
>
> Anyone else have any good people to let us all know about???
>
> Vale
>
> Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus
> Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum,
> Legio VI of the Northern Army
> "Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
> est Lux."
> "we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
> the Light"
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:21:18 -0400
> From: "Robert Williamson" <robert@-------->
> Subject: Help With Translation
>
> Salvé: I wonder if someone could help me with a translation for a friend of mine. My latin is strictly at the beginner's stage, and I am unable to figure this out. The words I was given to translate are "Scuola Umbra". Umbra is a shadow or shade apparently. (could be something else). But I am unable to translate Scuola. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks very much.
> Valé: Appius Marcellus Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:55:21 -0400 (EDT)
> From: jmath669642reng@--------
> Subject: Out of Town
>
> Salvete, Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> This is to notify all who have an interest that I will be gone this
> weekend (again!!). I will be on George's Island (Fort Warren) in the
> Boston Islands acting as the Federal Chief Engineer for a weekend
> reenactment (Civil War). I thank my Staff for thier efforts in rounding
> up information for the coming Senate call and shall deal with
> outstanding business upon my return on Monday (ran out of time--first
> boat to the island is noon today!!!)
>
> In my absence, I ask that my Scriba, prepare a proposed listing of items
> for introduction to the Senate Call as indicated by the Assensai Major.
> In my view the idea of an oranization of Roman Military Units has merit
> and since I am in the process of oranizing a similar institution for
> Civil War Federals in the NE, and belong to three others spanning the
> Rev War, I too have a couple of ideas. I would like to discuss this
> further among the menbers of the Sodilitas Militarium and Egressus
> before presenting it to the Senate for discussion. All who are
> interested in this matter are invited to particpate, and to join with us
> in both or either of the Sodalitas. As you will imagine, as one of two
> Consuls, I could use the assistance in really getting the Sodalitas off
> the ground and operating fully. I have relied upon my excellent Scriba
> Pompeia Cornelia far too much, and she has responded magnificently, but
> we could use the help and the ideas, and most of all the diligence to
> carry out the various plans for the two institutions.
>
> I ask Censor Merrullus and Senator Labienus to review the request
> received from the Praetor of Germania and make a recommendtion regarding
> its introduction to the Senate in light of their comments of yesterday.
> Scriba Pompeia has a copy.
>
> In regard to the situation in the Taverna, while there are no specific
> NR rules defining conduct in the Taverna, and while NR has relied upon
> common courtesy in the administration of such, it is now apparent that
> the view of common courtesy and usage is so widely varied among the
> citizens of Nova Roma that we are looking at a possibly more
> satisfactory methodology. One of the problems in this endeavor,
> however, is that with an increasing level of technology required from
> citizens (remember that not all of us are extremely skillful with
> various aspects of the internet or have extensive hardware) may well
> reduce the ability of some to use the Chatroom, and in some cases cut
> them off from that usage entirely. Therefore the research continues
> with that goal and problem in mind. It takes time and effort, and I ask
> for your patience and your indulgence. The Magistrates are working on
> several projects at once, and thier time is of course limited.
>
> In my view "lurking" as the practice has been tagged, has some appealing
> features in that it has allowed some of our most active citizens to
> become familiar with NR before deciding to join her ranks. It provides
> me with a certain amount of pleasure to hear citizens discussing the
> work and everyday ramifications of making a micronation work, when I
> would rather hear thier opinions than insert myself into thier
> discussion, whch invarably changes the tone. It is also a convienient
> way to find out just what I am doing right and doing wrong, and trying
> to adjust my actions to fit the needs of the citizens. I admit that one
> must have a desire to learn and abide by other's opinions, in order to
> take full advntage of such, but my "lurking: has been very very
> advantageous to me in this respect, and I hope has been instrmental in
> changing my views in the past to come more in line with the needs of NR.
>
> I do agree, however, that there is a down side to the practice and
> perhaps it is time to move on, as that down side becomes more and more
> a force of disruption in our micronation. Since snippets of converstion
> presented as evidence rarely tell the whole story, and since there is no
> way to determine how much the conversation recorded has changed the view
> of the participants of the moment, I do not feel that I can give a great
> deal of crecedence to these kind of postings. I believe that Senator
> Cassia's admonition that one should only say in the Taverna what one
> would be willing to repeat on the open list would be a wise policy, but
> of course that is for each individul to determine.
>
> Having said all that, and in closing, I wish to leave you all with this
> thought:
>
> --Any ill comment / action directed at another simply builds ill feeling
> towards yourself in direct proportion either by that person or by his /
> her friends who are very liable to make what was said / done to be much
> worse than the original action. It may be some time before that
> ill-will surfaces to your detriment and many times in quite surprising
> ways, but over time we all reap exactly what we sow in direct proportion
> to our efforts. You may ignore what I say, and you may think yourself
> exempt for any one of a thousand reasons, but when things begin to go
> wrong, in almost every case they can be traced to our own determination
> to treat others differently than we treat ourselves--
>
> Valete, Respectfully and Sincerely;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:18:09 EDT
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> Subject: Re: Out of Town
>
> Salve,
>
> I would be more then happy to give any assistance I could to the Military
> Project you spoke of, just let me know
>
> Vale,
> Tiberius
>
> >From: jmath669642reng@--------
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: [novaroma] Out of Town
> >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:55:21 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >Salvete, Citizens of Nova Roma;
> >
> >This is to notify all who have an interest that I will be gone this
> >weekend (again!!). I will be on George's Island (Fort Warren) in the
> >Boston Islands acting as the Federal Chief Engineer for a weekend
> >reenactment (Civil War). I thank my Staff for thier efforts in rounding
> >up information for the coming Senate call and shall deal with
> >outstanding business upon my return on Monday (ran out of time--first
> >boat to the island is noon today!!!)
> >
> >In my absence, I ask that my Scriba, prepare a proposed listing of items
> >for introduction to the Senate Call as indicated by the Assensai Major.
> >In my view the idea of an oranization of Roman Military Units has merit
> >and since I am in the process of oranizing a similar institution for
> >Civil War Federals in the NE, and belong to three others spanning the
> >Rev War, I too have a couple of ideas. I would like to discuss this
> >further among the menbers of the Sodilitas Militarium and Egressus
> >before presenting it to the Senate for discussion. All who are
> >interested in this matter are invited to particpate, and to join with us
> >in both or either of the Sodalitas. As you will imagine, as one of two
> >Consuls, I could use the assistance in really getting the Sodalitas off
> >the ground and operating fully. I have relied upon my excellent Scriba
> >Pompeia Cornelia far too much, and she has responded magnificently, but
> >we could use the help and the ideas, and most of all the diligence to
> >carry out the various plans for the two institutions.
> >
> >I ask Censor Merrullus and Senator Labienus to review the request
> >received from the Praetor of Germania and make a recommendtion regarding
> >its introduction to the Senate in light of their comments of yesterday.
> >Scriba Pompeia has a copy.
> >
> >In regard to the situation in the Taverna, while there are no specific
> >NR rules defining conduct in the Taverna, and while NR has relied upon
> >common courtesy in the administration of such, it is now apparent that
> >the view of common courtesy and usage is so widely varied among the
> >citizens of Nova Roma that we are looking at a possibly more
> >satisfactory methodology. One of the problems in this endeavor,
> >however, is that with an increasing level of technology required from
> >citizens (remember that not all of us are extremely skillful with
> >various aspects of the internet or have extensive hardware) may well
> >reduce the ability of some to use the Chatroom, and in some cases cut
> >them off from that usage entirely. Therefore the research continues
> >with that goal and problem in mind. It takes time and effort, and I ask
> >for your patience and your indulgence. The Magistrates are working on
> >several projects at once, and thier time is of course limited.
> >
> >In my view "lurking" as the practice has been tagged, has some appealing
> >features in that it has allowed some of our most active citizens to
> >become familiar with NR before deciding to join her ranks. It provides
> >me with a certain amount of pleasure to hear citizens discussing the
> >work and everyday ramifications of making a micronation work, when I
> >would rather hear thier opinions than insert myself into thier
> >discussion, whch invarably changes the tone. It is also a convienient
> >way to find out just what I am doing right and doing wrong, and trying
> >to adjust my actions to fit the needs of the citizens. I admit that one
> >must have a desire to learn and abide by other's opinions, in order to
> >take full advntage of such, but my "lurking: has been very very
> >advantageous to me in this respect, and I hope has been instrmental in
> >changing my views in the past to come more in line with the needs of NR.
> >
> >I do agree, however, that there is a down side to the practice and
> >perhaps it is time to move on, as that down side becomes more and more
> >a force of disruption in our micronation. Since snippets of converstion
> >presented as evidence rarely tell the whole story, and since there is no
> >way to determine how much the conversation recorded has changed the view
> >of the participants of the moment, I do not feel that I can give a great
> >deal of crecedence to these kind of postings. I believe that Senator
> >Cassia's admonition that one should only say in the Taverna what one
> >would be willing to repeat on the open list would be a wise policy, but
> >of course that is for each individul to determine.
> >
> >Having said all that, and in closing, I wish to leave you all with this
> >thought:
> >
> >--Any ill comment / action directed at another simply builds ill feeling
> >towards yourself in direct proportion either by that person or by his /
> >her friends who are very liable to make what was said / done to be much
> >worse than the original action. It may be some time before that
> >ill-will surfaces to your detriment and many times in quite surprising
> >ways, but over time we all reap exactly what we sow in direct proportion
> >to our efforts. You may ignore what I say, and you may think yourself
> >exempt for any one of a thousand reasons, but when things begin to go
> >wrong, in almost every case they can be traced to our own determination
> >to treat others differently than we treat ourselves--
> >
> >Valete, Respectfully and Sincerely;
> >Marcus Audens
> >
> >Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
> >
> >
> >http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:31:12 -0000
> From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
> Subject: Re: Questions on holding a Roman gathering
>
> Quintus Sertorius writes:
>
> > I am planning to hold a
> > gathering of people interested in being part of a Roman Legio and a
> Roman
> > cultural group(Nova Roma), and I need help in planning a proper
> Roman event.
>
> Wow, that sounds fun! Where is this event going to take place?
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:45:58 EDT
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> Subject: Strength and Honor Spring Festival 2001
>
> Salve good Cives...
>
> I would like to take this opportunity to invite you all to the Spring
> Festival of the Strength and Honor LARP Society. This event is going to be
> held on St. Patrick's day weekend 2001 (16-18th march) in Springfield NY.
> (about an hour and a bit south west of Albany, NY) It is also about 15
> miles from Cooperstown, NY if any of you are baseball fans. (so there is
> plenty of hotel, motel, etc.. and restruants for all.
>
> The event will be a weekend battle for the S&H folks, (for more info on the
> group you can check out the website)
>
> www.geocities.com/strengthandhonor_2000
>
> the event will be held at a farm adjacent to a state park with showers,
> etc.. (which we should have use of, Gods willing).
>
> if you want to see what life was like in northern england around 180AD you
> can't miss this. anyone wanting to participate is strongly encouraged to do
> so as well. just drop me a line. (all you need is a set of clothes)
>
> we are trying to work out a venue for a toga party for St. Patty's day.
> (hey, I know it's not one of our holidays, but it's a good excuse, and you
> don't have to wear green. Just stay clear of the outlander Tribes camp!!)
>
> Hope to see as many NR cives as possible. S&H is moving to have all of the
> Roman folks become members of NR, so it would be a great exchange for both
> sides!!
>
> anyone wanting more info drop me aline..
> Vale
>
> Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus
> Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum,
> Legio VI of the Northern Army
> "Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
> est Lux."
> "we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
> the Light"
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:53:16 US/Central
> From: labienus@--------
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> T Labienus M Apollonio Omnibusque S P D
>
> > We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> > preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> > to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> > public answer here?
>
> Unfortunately, there is no Web based solution to that problem. Any text that
> appears on one's screen can, at the very least, be copied and pasted into a
> file. When in the Taverna, remember that you are in public. However, the new
> Taverna will at least allow you to know who's in earshot.
>
> Valete
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:24:56 -0000
> From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
> Subject: Lurking etc.
>
> By now it should be apparent that lurking in the chat room is like
> reading someone's private diary: You may find out unpleasant
> information about yourself, and it serves you right. Complaining
> about it does nothing to enhance your reputation or dignitas.
>
> May I gently suggest that forwarding others' conversations also earns
> no favor for the person doing it? In some cases, it is an invasion of
> privacy; in many cases, the conversation is of no interest except to
> the original participants.
>
> Allegations of spying, lying and other infractions of a nonexistent
> code of honor serve only to take our attention away from the goals of
> Nova Roma, and away from interesting and informative conversation on
> this list.
>
> If you wish Nova Roma's magistrates to take some action, you must
> address your complaint to the Senate or to the relevant person, not
> to the list. Your message will be treated with more respect if you
> phrase it calmly, offer factual evidence, and outline possible
> actions which might solve the problem.
>
> Patricia Cassia
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:13:55 -0400
> From: "C Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@-------->
> Subject: Re: places to get roman clothes...
>
> Salvete Aureli Tiberi et alii
>
> Take a look at Imperium Ancient Arts in the Macellum
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/index.html
>
> If you order a toga or tunic from them, be sure to give your Roman name and
> tell them that you found them in Nova Roma, so that a portion of the
> proceeds will go to the Nova Roman treasury.
>
> Valete
>
> C Marius Merullus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aurelius Tiberius <kminer_rsg@-------->
> To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
> Date: Friday, July 21, 2000 9:05 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] places to get roman clothes...
>
> >I first wanted to thank everyone for the links to info/sites to furniture
> >sites, etc.. Now all I need to do is sell my house and build a villa to
> >fill it with all the great stuff I am finding!!!
> >
> >I wanted to start a dialoge on roman clothing if I may, As the commander
> of
> >a legion, I am always looking for new places to give my men and thier
> >families a choice as where to get clothes.
> >
> >I use Ana's Accouterments at www.sewfits.com, she is fantastic and I am
> >very happy with her work.
> >
> >Anyone else have any good people to let us all know about???
> >
> >Vale
> >
> >Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus
> >Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum,
> >Legio VI of the Northern Army
> >"Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
> >est Lux."
> >"we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
> >the Light"
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Shoes? On the web?
> >Click Here!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/7061/8/_/61050/_/964185536/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:01:47 -0500
> From: "Chad Kieffer" <ckieffe@-------->
> Subject: Re: Help With Translation
>
> Salve Cato,
> "Scuola" is the Italian for school. "Scola" is the usual term in
> classical Latin for school or a place of education. "Umbra" is the Latin
> word for shade or shadow. "Ombra" is the modern Italian word for shadow.
> I think it must be either a hybrid phrase or a medieval Italian phrase.
> I'm not sure, but I seem to remember from an Art History class in college,
> that "Scuola Umbra" was the name of an art movement in medieval or
> renaissance Europe. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about art history can
> fill us in.
>
> Vale,
> C Cordius Symmachus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Williamson <robert@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 9:21 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] Help With Translation
>
> > Salvé: I wonder if someone could help me with a translation for a friend
> of mine. My latin is strictly at the beginner's stage, and I am unable to
> figure this out. The words I was given to translate are "Scuola Umbra".
> Umbra is a shadow or shade apparently. (could be something else). But I am
> unable to translate Scuola. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks very much.
> > Valé: Appius Marcellus Cato
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get great brand name shoes with just the click of a mouse. Check out
> > the huge selection at Zappos.com, the Web's Most Popular Store!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/6994/8/_/61050/_/964186630/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:48:17 GMT
> From: "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <trog99@-------->
> Subject: Re: Strength and Honor Spring Festival 2001
>
> Salve, Aurelius Tiberius:
>
> I am sure the Sodalitas Egressus could provide you with some pamphlets on
> Nova Roma to have available at this gathering.
>
> Have you given any thought to perhaps joining the Sodalitas Egressus or
> Sodalitas Militarium? We would love to have you. I am sure you have some
> great ideas.
>
> If you would like some information packages on these Sodalitas, please email
> me privately at the above address, and I will boot them to you.
>
> Bene vale!
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
>
> >From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: [novaroma] Strength and Honor Spring Festival 2001
> >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:45:58 EDT
> >
> >Salve good Cives...
> >
> >I would like to take this opportunity to invite you all to the Spring
> >Festival of the Strength and Honor LARP Society. This event is going to be
> >held on St. Patrick's day weekend 2001 (16-18th march) in Springfield NY.
> >(about an hour and a bit south west of Albany, NY) It is also about 15
> >miles from Cooperstown, NY if any of you are baseball fans. (so there is
> >plenty of hotel, motel, etc.. and restruants for all.
> >
> >The event will be a weekend battle for the S&H folks, (for more info on the
> >group you can check out the website)
> >
> > www.geocities.com/strengthandhonor_2000
> >
> >the event will be held at a farm adjacent to a state park with showers,
> >etc.. (which we should have use of, Gods willing).
> >
> >if you want to see what life was like in northern england around 180AD you
> >can't miss this. anyone wanting to participate is strongly encouraged to
> >do
> >so as well. just drop me a line. (all you need is a set of clothes)
> >
> >we are trying to work out a venue for a toga party for St. Patty's day.
> >(hey, I know it's not one of our holidays, but it's a good excuse, and you
> >don't have to wear green. Just stay clear of the outlander Tribes camp!!)
> >
> >Hope to see as many NR cives as possible. S&H is moving to have all of the
> >Roman folks become members of NR, so it would be a great exchange for both
> >sides!!
> >
> >
> >anyone wanting more info drop me aline..
> >Vale
> >
> >Aurelius Tiberius Ronanus
> >Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum,
> >Legio VI of the Northern Army
> >"Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
> >est Lux."
> >"we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
> >the Light"
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To email plain text is conventional, to add graphics is divine.
> >We'll show you how at www.supersig.com.
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/6811/8/_/61050/_/964190759/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:56:09 EDT
> From: Piscinus@--------
> Subject: To L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola
>
> Gn. Moravius Piscinus L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola S.P.D.
>
> I am a Soldier.
>
> Not by weekend visits nor by trips to summer camps for little boys, not
> by parading in costume nor by pounding one's chest with false bravado, as
> some by pretense would debase the title; please think not that way of me, for
> I am a soldier.
>
> As a veteran of wars fought in South East Asia and in the Mideast, in the
> uniform of my country I have stood beside the British soldiers of BAOR and
> beside German soldiers as well, and atop the Golan Heights, beside Isreali
> soldiers as they desperately held against Syrian assaults, in such places I
> have earned the title.
>
> I am a Soldier.
>
> I am but only one who has known the true camaraderie that can only be
> forged in battle, one who has tasted the bitter sorrow of watching friends
> and comrades die beside him, one who has felt the utter shame of holding
> others to be his enemies.
>
> I am a Soldier.
>
> When first I took that title, I swore an oath to defend my country, to
> defend its constitution, and to defend the rights of every person who came
> under its protection. If I am now a disabled veteran, as others have pointed
> out, it is only because I was willing to sacrifice myself for what I believed
> in. When I think of those comrades who offered up themselves to defend human
> dignity and the rights of others, I see one lone man defiantly standing in
> Tien An Men Square. And when I find a man of courage such as you, L.
> Caecilius Metellus Scaevola, standing up for justice then I feel honor bound
> to stand beside you.
>
> I am a Soldier.
>
> When the Founding Fathers established this micronation it was with a
> vision of a noble Roman Republic. When I applied for citizenship in this
> republic it was with the same commitment to honor, to defend, and to
> sacrifice to make that vision a reality as I had in days past offered to my
> country. Wherein now, some may ask, lies those noble virtues of moral
> fortitude, the courage of conviction, and the dignity and nobility offered
> unselfishly on behalf of others? I will answer, they are to be found in L.
> Caecilius Metellus Scaevola.
>
> In you alone, in this whole affair, have I found honor, integrity, and
> nobility as virtues worthy to emulate. I honor your name alone, L. Caecilius
> Metellus Scaevola, for I am a soldier and I salute the one man I would value
> to have call me his friend and comrade.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:51:52 EDT
> From: "Aurelius Tiberius" <kminer_rsg@-------->
> Subject: Re: To L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola
>
> who do you think has made use of the title wrongly??
>
> >From: Piscinus@--------
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: heckifiknow@--------
> >CC: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: [novaroma] To L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola
> >Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:56:09 EDT
> >
> >Gn. Moravius Piscinus L. Caecilius Metellus Scaevola S.P.D.
> >
> > I am a Soldier.
> >
> > Not by weekend visits nor by trips to summer camps for little boys,
> >not
> >by parading in costume nor by pounding one's chest with false bravado, as
> >some by pretense would debase the title; please think not that way of me,
> >for
> >I am a soldier.
> >
> > As a veteran of wars fought in South East Asia and in the Mideast, in
> >the
> >uniform of my country I have stood beside the British soldiers of BAOR and
> >beside German soldiers as well, and atop the Golan Heights, beside Isreali
> >soldiers as they desperately held against Syrian assaults, in such places I
> >have earned the title.
> >
> > I am a Soldier.
> >
> > I am but only one who has known the true camaraderie that can only be
> >forged in battle, one who has tasted the bitter sorrow of watching friends
> >and comrades die beside him, one who has felt the utter shame of holding
> >others to be his enemies.
> >
> > I am a Soldier.
> >
> > When first I took that title, I swore an oath to defend my country,
> >to
> >defend its constitution, and to defend the rights of every person who came
> >under its protection. If I am now a disabled veteran, as others have
> >pointed
> >out, it is only because I was willing to sacrifice myself for what I
> >believed
> >in. When I think of those comrades who offered up themselves to defend
> >human
> >dignity and the rights of others, I see one lone man defiantly standing in
> >Tien An Men Square. And when I find a man of courage such as you, L.
> >Caecilius Metellus Scaevola, standing up for justice then I feel honor
> >bound
> >to stand beside you.
> >
> > I am a Soldier.
> >
> > When the Founding Fathers established this micronation it was with a
> >vision of a noble Roman Republic. When I applied for citizenship in this
> >republic it was with the same commitment to honor, to defend, and to
> >sacrifice to make that vision a reality as I had in days past offered to my
> >country. Wherein now, some may ask, lies those noble virtues of moral
> >fortitude, the courage of conviction, and the dignity and nobility offered
> >unselfishly on behalf of others? I will answer, they are to be found in L.
> >Caecilius Metellus Scaevola.
> >
> > In you alone, in this whole affair, have I found honor, integrity, and
> >nobility as virtues worthy to emulate. I honor your name alone, L.
> >Caecilius
> >Metellus Scaevola, for I am a soldier and I salute the one man I would
> >value
> >to have call me his friend and comrade.
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 01:50:15 -0000
> From: "Little Dragon" <fionaerin@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> ---Salve Formosanus,
>
> I will ask this as a favor, could you please drop this matter? What's
> done is done isn't it? Why try to validate everything and get the
> situation more in a tiffy. That's pretty much what I had to say about
> it, hopefully Formosanus you will listen.
>
> Vale
> Aeternia Draconia
>
> In novaroma@--------, "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@y...>
> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites!
> >
> > I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> > AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> > Piscinus.
> >
> > Respondeo:
> >
> > 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> > fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> > from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> > point. We are not personal friends. :-)
> >
> > 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> > Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> > insofar as I can remember.
> >
> > The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> > in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> > directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> > Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> > collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> > preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> > means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> > opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> > (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> > affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
> >
> > But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> > shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> > show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> > is:
> > _____________________
> > > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> > with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> > sad.
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you.
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> > Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> >
> > In detail:
> >
> > "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
> >
> > There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> > "AIMs" anywhere.
> >
> > " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you."
> >
> > That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> > quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> > does not "fulminate".
> >
> > But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> > that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> > conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> > good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> > including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> > people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> > Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> > of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> > the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> > the evidence to show otherwise.
> >
> > I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> > Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> > Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> > Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> > thanks, Graece.
> >
> > Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> > sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> > himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
> >
> > The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> > grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> > observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> > culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> > and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> > myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> > later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> > that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> > even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> > snippets and discredit political opponents.
> >
> > Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> > recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> > systematically gather information to attack political
> > opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> > Quirites.
> >
> > I have already been urging the involved people I have
> > been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> > were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> > mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> > of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> > on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> > different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> > consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> > Curatrix Sermonis.
> >
> > We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> > preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> > to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> > public answer here?
> >
> > Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> > official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> > with regard to this July 20 Affair.
> >
> > You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> > said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> > flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> > dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> > one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> > against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> > restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> > name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> > successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> > Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> > 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> > only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> > keeping :-)
> >
> > Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> > *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> > investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> > considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> > proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> > words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> > common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> > flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> > collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> > If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> > judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
> >
> > M. Apollonius Formosanus
> > _____________________________
> > Festus wrote:
> >
> > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> > From: Lykaion1@--------
> > Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> > print it out and
> > read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> > Roma citizens,
> > and non-citizens alike.
> >
> > There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> > if it is not
> > illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> > this post to
> > both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> > already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> > you can just as easily be victimized
> >
> > There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> > taverna, and
> > the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> > the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> > room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> > conversations that take place there.
> >
> > Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> > chatroom is a
> > public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> > Beseen.com
> > and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> > rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> > chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> > television or radio.
> > When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> > friend' is there
> > reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> > tells someone
> > else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> > spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> > made any more public than it
> > already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> > command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> > "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
> >
> > However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> > PRIVATE
> > communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> > who would
> > post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> > further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> > forums.
> > There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> > opinionating. For
> > example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> > son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> > may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> > robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> > you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> > Gaius Festus.
> >
> > I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> > problems with it. In
> > fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> > real ethical
> > crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> > communications
> > were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> > is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
> >
> > The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
> >
> > From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> > left, I copied the
> > entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> > it may have a
> > copy emailed from me.
> >
> > Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> > Formosanus have
> > been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> > from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> > then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> > than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> > AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> > morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> > Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> > after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> > her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> > internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> > send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> > strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> > had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> > that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> > checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> > private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> > Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
> >
> > The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> > have not edited
> > it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> > emailing me.
> >
> > Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> > Aeternia
> > Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> > Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> > of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> > simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> > all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> > statements.
> >
> > I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
> >
> > Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> > long
> > winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> > iustitia, etc.
> > Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> > private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> > these virtues?
> >
> > Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> > much time on
> > your hands that you can spread private communications to
> > others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> > demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> > is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> > sir?
> >
> > How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> > Have you
> > informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
> >
> > I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> > apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> > any commitee or other posts
> > they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> > should remain private citizens only.
> >
> > I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> > punitive
> > action against these men.
> >
> > For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> > acquaintances.
> > They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> > ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> > severed.
> >
> > So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> > Here is one.
> > Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> > not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> > do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> > resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> > vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> > forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> > and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> > worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> > not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> > needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> > I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> > they may end up! :}
> >
> > For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> > Piscinus and
> > Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> > friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
> >
> > This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> > warning. Do as you
> > like with it.
> >
> > Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> > Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> > Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Scriba Censorius
> > Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> > ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> > http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> > The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> > AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> > Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> > [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> > ________________________________________________________
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:28:44 -0600
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> M Apollonius Formosanus speaks at length and with great conviction about the
> despicable practice of logging conversations in the Taverna. However, I
> note that the sampling of conversation which he provides from the
> conversation in the Taverna between Vado and Piscinus is dated Thurs., July
> 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
>
> Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
> me....
>
> This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
> moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
> operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
> room. I would much rather have a third party in charge of keeping the
> peace. Another online society I participate in includes the mandatory
> archiving of channel logs BY THE CHANNEL OPERATORS whenever the channel is
> in session, and for all operators to verify that a situation has occurred
> and agree on what course of action a situation warrants.
>
> This arrangement works to protect all individuals concerned in situations
> like this. I have participated in this online society for 6 years, and have
> never felt like my right to express myself was curtailed, with the exception
> of being held to the channel criteria, which includes not using foul
> language or speaking in a derogatory manner about another person. These
> criteria DO NOT prevent open, honest disagreement of opinion -- but it can
> serve to keep the disagreement focused on the topic, rather than attacking
> PERSONS.
>
> I echo the admonitions of our august Senators Patricia Cassia and Marcus
> Audens. This line of discussion serves nobody and hurts quite a few people
> personally. For example, love him or hate him....have we lost our (rather
> amusing) satirist Festus for good?? That would make me sad.
>
> Valete!
>
> L. Cornelia Aurelia
>
> "M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:
>
> > Salvete Quirites!
> >
> > I have just been accused by Festus of sending private
> > AIMs from himself and L. Cornelius Sulla to Cn. Moravius
> > Piscinus.
> >
> > Respondeo:
> >
> > 1) I have never had an AIM from Festus in my life. (In
> > fact I do not believe that I have ever had a personal e-mail
> > from him, although my memory may be wrong about the second
> > point. We are not personal friends. :-)
> >
> > 2) I have never received a copy of *any* AIM from
> > Piscinus, I am 100% certain, or from any other person
> > insofar as I can remember.
> >
> > The cause of this accusation is the SPYING that went on
> > in the Taverna recently. I had thought that Sulla was
> > directly responsible at the time, but now it seems that
> > Festus also or instead was present and deliberately
> > collecting information. THAT IS NOT INNOCENT as Festus as a
> > preface would try to present it. It is an attempt to find
> > means for blackmail or harrassment, especially of political
> > opponents such as might be characteristic in a police state.
> > (Festus of course is not the State, but he has his political
> > affiliations, which are not the same as mine.)
> >
> > But since this dubiously obtained transcript exists, I
> > shall make use of the copy provided me by Censor Sulla to
> > show how unsubstantial this all is. The passage in question
> > is:
> > _____________________
> > > Piscinus: Right, you englanders have such a problem
> > with the way we Speak the mother tongue
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: Pisci I'm beginning to feel a little
> > sad.
> > > > 0:46 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: as they were happening
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: He IS a demogogos. What's wrong with that?
> > > > 0:45 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > AeterniaDraconia: I don't want to know do I?
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you.
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus: Sulla claims senators are worried
> > Formosanus is a demagogue
> > > > 0:44 am Thursday July 20, 2000
> >
> > In detail:
> >
> > "Piscinus: and I festus' to Formosanus"
> >
> > There is no context given. Festus' what? It dies *not* say
> > "AIMs" anywhere.
> >
> > " Vado: Oh, I see. Formosanus relayed Sulla's
> > fulminations to you."
> >
> > That was Vado's interpretation. Actually Sulla is a
> > quiet-spoken gentleman in speaking with me personally, and
> > does not "fulminate".
> >
> > But WHAT is being relayed? It does not say AIMs. In fact all
> > that was being "relayed" was the normal paraphrases of
> > conversations one has had with other people. Piscinus is a
> > good friend of mine with whom I talk about a lot of things,
> > including fellow Romans and politics. The discusion of
> > people and politics is a legitimate part of our life in Nova
> > Roma, as I am sure all will agree. Relaying the the contents
> > of conversations IN PARAPHRASE, as people normally do, is
> > the ONLY thing that is going on here. There is nothing in
> > the evidence to show otherwise.
> >
> > I might add that my private letter posted here on the
> > Main List was posted *by accident* by Antonius Gryllus
> > Graecus, and he publicly apologised for it in Digest 942,
> > Message 7. (July 20) Which gracious apology I accept with
> > thanks, Graece.
> >
> > Knowing Festus' style when he is in attack mode, I am
> > sure that many of us can understand why Piscinus might feel
> > himself "harassed" by just two in a day. ;-)
> >
> > The people on the list that evening have a legitimate
> > grievance with all those who were involved with the secret
> > observation of the Taverna. I had thought that the primary
> > culprit was Sulla, who appeared while we were in the Taverna
> > and asked strangely suspicious questions of Piscinus and
> > myself on AIM without any explanation until later, and who
> > later provided me with the transcript of our table talk. Now
> > that I see that Festus was involved just as much, one might
> > even *suspect* a coördinated operation to collect damaging
> > snippets and discredit political opponents.
> >
> > Whatever one's opinion of *casual* lurking and *casual*
> > recording - perhaps - the use of these methods to
> > systematically gather information to attack political
> > opponents is despicable. I hope that you will agree,
> > Quirites.
> >
> > I have already been urging the involved people I have
> > been in touch which - Sulla (about whom some harsh words
> > were spoken in Taverna) and the people spied upon - to
> > mutually apologise and forgive one another. The involvement
> > of Festus in this way, with a public attack on people based
> > on very faulty and sneakily-gained evidence begins to put a
> > different cast on things, and I shall be taking that into
> > consideration in the complaint that I am laying before the
> > Curatrix Sermonis.
> >
> > We will soon be getting a new Taverna which will
> > preclude lurking. Will it also preclude making transcripts
> > to backmail people with? Could someone who knows give us a
> > public answer here?
> >
> > Whatever the case with the new Taverna, I think that an
> > official investigation should be made of Festus and Sulla
> > with regard to this July 20 Affair.
> >
> > You will note in passing that Piscinus said that Sulla
> > said that some senators said that I was a "demagoge". I feel
> > flattered to be treated so seriously as to be considered so
> > dangerous. I have to date only campaigned extensively for
> > one issue: legal provisions that are not discriminatory
> > against transgendering persons, and in particular the
> > restoration to NR of Lucius Marius Aurelianus under that
> > name of his choice. On the first part I have been half
> > successful (with the massive help of the Senate and Censor
> > Merullus) and on the second completely a failure, alas. A
> > 25% track record is not impressive. A lion which eats up
> > only one political opponent out of four is hardly worth
> > keeping :-)
> >
> > Festus found an accusation which is difficult to
> > *disprove* conclusively by any available form of
> > investigation. I therefore ask that I (and Piscinus) be
> > considered innocent on the principle of "innocent until
> > proven guilty" - not necessarily a Roman one in so many
> > words, but one which presumably conforms to most of our
> > common-sense notions of fairness. And you have seen the
> > flimsiness of the evidence, the furtive way it was
> > collected, and the fact that Festus is a political opponent.
> > If Festus wants to bring us before a NR Magistrate for
> > judgement, let him *prove* his allegations. I'm ready!
> >
> > M. Apollonius Formosanus
> > _____________________________
> > Festus wrote:
> >
> > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:04:11 EDT
> > From: Lykaion1@--------
> > Subject: To All Of The S.P.Q.R
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > This may be a long post, and so I ask you all to please
> > print it out and
> > read it. It concerns an issue that affects all of us, Nova
> > Roma citizens,
> > and non-citizens alike.
> >
> > There is a very ugly and unethical thing going on, and
> > if it is not
> > illegal by Nova Roma law, then it should be. I am sending
> > this post to
> > both the Senate, and to the main list, because I have
> > already been victimized by this, and each and every one of
> > you can just as easily be victimized
> >
> > There has recently been some discussion concerning the
> > taverna, and
> > the search for a new chatroom. The major concern has been
> > the presence of 'lurkers', people who are present in the
> > room, but cannot be seen, and of the ethics of reporting on
> > conversations that take place there.
> >
> > Personally, I have absolutely no problem with this. A
> > chatroom is a
> > public forum. Anyone with internet access can sign up with
> > Beseen.com
> > and enter the Nova Roma taverna. The simple, common sense
> > rule of thumb is to understand that whatever one says in a
> > chatroom may be "proclaimed from the rooftops" or aired on
> > television or radio.
> > When I am in the taverna, I do not care if some 'invisible
> > friend' is there
> > reading my conversation. I also do not care if this person
> > tells someone
> > else what I have been saying. As I see it, I have already
> > spoken in a public forum, and so what I have said cannot be
> > made any more public than it
> > already is! If we desire privacy, we have the 'whisper'
> > command, AIM, email, and the telephone. We do not have any
> > "right to privacy" in a public chatroom.
> >
> > However, we DO have the right and expectation that
> > PRIVATE
> > communications will be treated as such. We frown on those
> > who would
> > post a private email on the mailing list, do we not? And we
> > further expect not to be slandered or libeled in public
> > forums.
> > There is a difference between slander/libel, and
> > opinionating. For
> > example, if you say, "Gaius Lupinius Festus is a worthless
> > son of a bitch", you are expressing an opinion that others
> > may or may not share. But if you say "Gaius Lupinius Festus
> > robbed a bank and killed the teller", and it is not so, then
> > you have told a lie. You would have slandered or libeled
> > Gaius Festus.
> >
> > I like lurking in a chatroom, and see no ethical
> > problems with it. In
> > fact, just last evening, my lurking allowed me to discover a
> > real ethical
> > crime being committed. I saw that my PERSONAL
> > communications
> > were being shared, and that I was being libeled. And if this
> > is happening to me, it may very well happen to you.
> >
> > The men responsible for this are Piscinus and Formosanus.
> >
> > From the time I entered that chatroom to the time I
> > left, I copied the
> > entire conversation to a txt. file, and any who wish to see
> > it may have a
> > copy emailed from me.
> >
> > Piscinus said, in this public chatroom, that he and
> > Formosanus have
> > been sharing with each other {and who knows who else?} AIMs
> > from myself and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Piscinus
> > then proceeded to say blatant lies about me. He said, more
> > than once, that I had been "harassing" him all day with
> > AIMs. The truth is, I sent TWO AIMs to Piscinus yesterday
> > morning, at around 7:30 am EST, and NO MORE. Unlike
> > Piscinus, I work for a living. I leave for work shortly
> > after 7:30 in the morning, and after picking up my wife from
> > her job, I usually come home at around 6:30pm. I have no
> > internet access where I work, and it is impossible for me to
> > send an instant message to anyone! Piscinus also made a
> > strange comment. He said that someone, {presumably Sulla?}
> > had posted Formosanus' private email on the main list, and
> > that the Consuls should be notified. I was shocked. I
> > checked the list, and saw nothing. No posts containing the
> > private email of ANYONE had been posted. Yet this is what
> > Piscinus said happened, and you can read it for yourself.
> >
> > The txt file of this chatroom conversation is authentic. I
> > have not edited
> > it. And since it is a public chatroom, you may have it by
> > emailing me.
> >
> > Also present in the chatroom were Vado, Marius Fimbria,
> > Aeternia
> > Draconia, Formosanus, and Publius Claudius Lucentius
> > Severus. These people did NOT however, make any betrayals
> > of private messages nor did they engage in libel. They were
> > simply there. I doubt Piscinus would be able to convince
> > all of them to lie for him, and deny he made these
> > statements.
> >
> > I will now direct some questions to Formosanus and Piscinus.
> >
> > Formosanus, you speak so eloquently {and almost endlessly in
> > long
> > winded posts} about the Roman Virtues, such as clementia,
> > iustitia, etc.
> > Whatever happened to honestas? Does your betrayal of
> > private communications show in what high esteem you hold
> > these virtues?
> >
> > Piscinus, I understand you are retired. Do you have too
> > much time on
> > your hands that you can spread private communications to
> > others, and tell outright lies about people? Why do you
> > demand public apologies from others when your behavior here
> > is so disgusting? Are you in that dire a need of a life
> > sir?
> >
> > How many other citizens have you betrayed in this manner?
> > Have you
> > informed some of them, at least, that you are doing this?
> >
> > I call for Picinus and Formosanus to make immediate public
> > apologies to all of Nova Roma. I call for them to resign
> > any commitee or other posts
> > they may hold. If they will not resign citizenship, they
> > should remain private citizens only.
> >
> > I also call for the Senate and Magistrates to take immediate
> > punitive
> > action against these men.
> >
> > For myself, I once considered both these men friendly
> > acquaintances.
> > They have now revealed themselves to be enemies, and all
> > ties between the Lupinii and these men are now totally
> > severed.
> >
> > So, I have stated the problem. What are some solutions?
> > Here is one.
> > Trust no one. That is exactly what I am going to do. I am
> > not resigning citizenship at this time. Frankly, right now I
> > do not care enough about Nova Roma to even bother to
> > resign. I am unsubscribing from all lists, and am taking a
> > vacation. It may be two days, it maybe two months, it maybe
> > forever. I honestly do not know. I may work on my story,
> > and if I choose to do so I may post it. If I don't, don't
> > worry about it. If I feel better later, I'll be around. If
> > not, no big deal. No one is indispensible. If anyone
> > needs to reach me, I can be emailed at this address, though
> > I cannot promise personal replies. I have no idea where
> > they may end up! :}
> >
> > For those of you who consider yourselves friends with
> > Piscinus and
> > Formosanus, I strongly urge you to reconsider your
> > friendship. They may be screwing you around as well.
> >
> > This is my statement, my official complaint, and my
> > warning. Do as you
> > like with it.
> >
> > Gaius Lupinius Festus, aka Stuart Smith
> >
> > --
> > Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> > Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> > Triumvir Condens Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> > Scriba Censorius
> > Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> > ICQ# 61698049 Gens Apollonia:
> > http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> > The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> > AVE RESPVBLICA LIBERA NOSTRA - NOVA ROMA!
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> > Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> > [Se vi deziras subigi chion al vi, subigu vin al Racio.]
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Shoes? On the web?
> > Click Here!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/7061/8/_/61050/_/964167849/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:46:27 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> Salve L Cornelia,
>
> > Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
> >
> > Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
> > me....
>
> No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also, remember
> that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
>
> > This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
> > moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
> > operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
> > room.
>
> I have been advising the Senate on a technical solution that will make
> this possible.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
> Microsoft delenda est!
> http://www.graveyards.com/
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:50:19 -0700
> From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marcus Octavius Germanicus" <haase@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> > Salve L Cornelia,
> >
> > > Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
> > >
> > > Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation
> to
> > > me....
> >
> > No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also,
> remember
> > that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
>
> Actually Formosanus got his transcript from me. :) We are in communication
> privately to resolve this issue amicably via mediation.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:10:03 -0600
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> Subject: Re: The Allegations of Festus the Spy
>
> Salve, Germanicus:
>
> I stand corrected by my better. :) I was just giving counsel in controlling
> oneself before one speaks out of turn. Physician, heal thyself!
>
> If you would like assistance with the technical matters, please keep me in mind.
>
> Vale,
> L.Cornelia
>
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>
> > Salve L Cornelia,
> >
> > > Thurs., July 20 and his email to this list is dated Fri., July 21.
> > >
> > > Hmmm......Formosanus, that looks suspiciously like a logged conversation to
> > > me....
> >
> > No mystery there; Festus made the transcript available to all. Also, remember
> > that the dates in the Forum are UK time, so it's now been about two days.
> >
> > > This is why I maintain that the wisest course of action is something like a
> > > moderated chat room where there are certain persons -- known as channel
> > > operators -- who have the RESPONSIBILITY of maintaining order in the chat
> > > room.
> >
> > I have been advising the Senate on a technical solution that will make
> > this possible.
> >
> > Vale, Octavius.
> >
> > --
> > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
> > Microsoft delenda est!
> > http://www.graveyards.com/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Huge Shoe Selection at Zappos.com
> > (small sizes also available)
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/7062/8/_/61050/_/964234098/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old school buds here:
http://click.egroups.com/1/7081/8/_/61050/_/964423643/
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