| Subject: |
[novaroma] Villa of the Quintilians |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:53:59 EDT |
|
Morvavius Piscinus Quiritibus SPD: Bene omnibus nobis.
Yesterday my friend Marcus Attilius Regulus posted a message for all of
us on his recent trip to the Villa of the Quintilians. Here is my attempt at
translating it for you.
My Dear friends and citizens
Recently I had the pleasure of visiting an archaeological site that can
be really appreciated during this hot summer in Roma. The Villa of the
Quintilians on the Appian Way has been well known for centuries Recently
excavation in the area has come to an end and the site has been reopened to
visitors with much more to see.
The villa is found at the fifth mile along the Appian Way; it is one of
many places, selected from the Quintillian (estate) for the very reason of
its symbolic character. The Appian Way is absolutely straight for several
miles, whereas at the fifth mile there is a notable "S" curve. For what
reason? This particular location has from the Archaic period of Roma been
considered to be sacred. Indeed this is the very place, considered the
border region of Rome with the rest of the Latins, that during the reign of
Tullus Hostilius was fought the famed battle of champions between Horatius
and his compatriots against the Curiati champions of Alba Longa. The tombs
of the three Curiatii and two Horatii who died in the battle may still be
seen today in the vicinity of the Villa. Even now it is a place of marvels
and fascinations. Located in the lush Roman countryside there are numerous
other out of the ordinary archaeological sights to be found. The Villa of
the Quintilians symbolizes the great prestige of its owners, and honors the
hospitality of one of many luxurious residences which once graced this area
during the second century of the imperial era.
The Quintilians, Sextus Quintilius Condianus and his brother Sextus
Quintilius Valerius Maximus, were descended from a noble family that
originally came from Asia Minor. Among the very wealthy provincials they had
come to Rome desiring to participate in the Imperial political life and
society of the time. The two brothers shared the Consulship in 151 CE and
held several other important political appointments in Italy and in Asia.
(Gibbons mentions them as joint administrators of Greece and of both holding
the military command that defeated the Germans during the reign of Marcus
Aurelius.)
With the ascension of the Emperor Commodus in 180 CE the fortunes of the
two brothers came to an end. Those opposed to the new Emperor, among them the
Quintili brothers, had their property confiscated and were exiled. The Villa
then passed to the Imperial estates and was from then on used by Commodus and
his successors, who enlarged the estate's reputation with new constructions.
This result is evident from all of the seals found on bricks and other items
produced from the Villa's kilns. The Villa hence became part of the imperial
complex of estates. That certainly was its use to the end of the period
275-276 CE during the reign of the Emperor Tacitus.
It is best to say that the brothers Quintili did not have anything in
common with the story told in the film "Gladiator." The film is spectacular
for how much it does not relate to the actual history. Commodus rose to the
imperial throne in a manner that was completely legitimate, having succeeded
his father, the Emperor Marcus Aurelius. He first had been named Augustus
and held the tribunate powers for a period of five years before his
succession. That Commodus gained the throne by an act of megalomaniacal
knavery is doubtful, but that he came as the legitimate heir amounted to the
same thing. Saddly for Rome. He died not in the arena of the Flavian
Amphitheater, but was drowned in the privacy of his bathtub. The full name
of Commodus was Lucius Aelius Commodus Agustus Herculeus Romanus
Exsuperatorius Amazonius Invictus Felix Pius !!!
Returning to the subject of the Villa, it is not the typical house, but a
grand suburban villa of rich gardens,the principle one being a replica of the
Hippodrome, ample spas fed by hot springs, and salons filled with polychrome
frescoes. The villa's floor was made of coloured marble and granite, worked
with great artistry. Surrounding an enormous area are a hundred statues and
marble friezes. For a view of the Villa see the website of the Italian
Minister of Culture <A HREF="rtsp://jimi.beniculturali.it/media/quintili2.rm">
Villa dei Quintili</A>
(The site, from www.beniculturali.it/quintili/index.html, has a video tour of
the villa, on Realplay, in Italian, and under "reportage," has many scenes of
the villa in 360* video at different times of day and in different seasons.)
But the sensation that I have tasted in the course of my visit there on the
site, this is not possible for me to tell. You must come see it in person,
from here in Roma!
The Villa has been known since 1485 as the "Statuario," when it was so
named during the Renaissance as the source of so many statues. From that
time began the work of the removal of the works of art that are now found in
numerous museums the world over: the Monaco in Bavaria, the Hermitage in St.
Petersburg, Russia, the Vatican Museum; the British Museum, and Palazzo
Torlonia. Excavations of the countryside became a furious effort after 1783
under Pope Pius VI. Such labors wrangle those at the Capitoline Museum. In
the following years the Villa came under the noble family of the Princes of
Torlonia. In the 19th century they exploited the Villa for their own
economic benefit, by conducting many excavations and trading off their
discovered artworks to all the royal courts of Europe and to many private
collections the world over.
I am particularly interested by the statues representing the Asian
divinities, as it gives testimony that the Quintili brothers continued the
cults from the region of their origin: Zeus Brontes, Ephesian Artemis, the
Dioscuri Cautes and Cautopates, and Asclepius. The reports of what was found
in the course of excavations from 1925/27 to 1998/99, I found in the
Antiquarium of Archaeology Sites. Since then a marvelous statue of Zeus has
been kept untouched. The latest excavation has brought to light a room
buried in the Maritime Theater, the assigned use of which is uncertain. The
theater's name is not meant as a deception, although it is not exactly a
theater, but comes from its circular form similar to the one found at the
Villa of Adrian at Tivoli (Tibur). This was also a circular area with a
great pool of water having a central island. On the island is found the
refuge where Adrian loved to retire in complete solitude for meditation.
Dated by the similarity of the two works, the Tivoli gardens were inspired by
the Maritime Theater at the Villa of the Quintili. Absolutely unknown is
whether this circular area serviced some purpose at the villa.
Excuse me if my post has been too long. If you want additional
information you can contact me on the mainlist. I hope this has been able to
satisfy your curiosity and your interests for the ancient vestiges of our
most beautiful Roma.
With friendship
Marcus Attilius Regulus
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Remember the good 'ol days
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] |
| From: |
"c.p." <c_pontius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:59:10 -0700 |
|
for some reason I thought only the united States made stupid one sided news
stories. however, here is a prime example of the kind of education our
children recieve from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/romans/city.html
I think we need a nice kids page on our site and i volenteer to help create
one. If someone would like to contact me and let me know if you wanna help
and how then it would be appreciated. Thanx!
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Nova Roma capital |
| From: |
"c.p." <c_pontius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:01:25 -0700 |
|
Yes, I do know quite a litle bit of history for someone who has not studied
it formally. I know of the people whom you write. I knew when i wrote what
i did that i would get disagreement and that is always going to be the case
when you state an opinion on a topic. i would say that you either do not
know much about history, which i doubt, or you are just not thinking clearly
when you mention all those people.
Every one of them are in wars of THEIR OWN. The Serbians and Albeinians
have been fighting for 700 years and they will not stop now. Africa right
now is, and for along time has been, a place of strife. etheopia, i cant
even determine which people you mean because there have been so many wars
there over the past 100 years. Iraq, again not sure what you mean by a
peaceful people. iraq invaided Kuwait which is not a peaceful action. The
people may now be suffering from lack of materialism, but i think we
americans could use a bit of that ourselves.
My point was mainly, that we must realise that the United States Government
is very opinionated and we must keep them in mind in every decsion we make.
Until, of course, the day when we are able to overcome all outside forces
politically. I think we ought to have a name for this time. A goal to
which we should strive in the real world.
The goal would not simply be to overcome the political power of the United
States Government, it would be to overcome all opposing political powers. A
time when we could, like Old Rome, make our own laws, live by our own laws,
collect our own taxes for civic improovement, and not have to pay tribute
(taxes) to ANY other nation.
I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple.. Any
thoughts?
C. Pontius
-----Original Message-----
From: LSergAust@-------- [mailto:LSergAust@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 8:49 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Nova Roma capital
On 8/15/00 11:03 AM c.p. (c_pontius@--------) wrote:
>
>.
>.
>... For who would annihilate a peaceful people who only wish to live
>as they choose.
>.
>.
>.
>
Haven't read much of human history, have you? We've annihilated quite a
number of peaceful peoples who only wished to live as they chose. We
still are -- heard of Bosnia? Kosovo? The Kurdish people of Turkey and
Iraq? Rwanda? Angola? Ethiopia? Rhodesia? Somalia? Kampuchea? The Branch
Davidians at Waco?
I'm sorry but being peaceful, inoffensive, and just wanting to live as
they choose has never protected anyone anywhere.
Sorry, but sometimes it's necessary to take a dose of reality.
L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] NR Practical Latin 6: Pronunciation II |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:57:15 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Civibus Omnibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
In our first lesson we learned how to use informal
greetings:
Salve (sing.) or Salvete (pl.) + ADDRESSEE (Vocative)
And we learned that the Vocative is just like the basic
Nominative except for names ending in -US, and that the
rules for changing those were:
-US > -E [O Marce!]
-IUS > -I [O Apolloni!]
-AUS > -AË (two syllables) [O Nicolae!]
In our second lesson we learned how to make the traditional
salutation in letters:
SENDER (Nominative) + RECIPIENT (Dative) + S.P.D.
We learned how to make the Dative from the Nominative by
these rules:
-A > -AE [To Sulla, Maria: Sullae, ariae]
-US > -O [To Marcus, Merullus: Marco, Merullo]
-OR > -ORI [To Censor, Praetor: Censori, Praetori]
-AUS > -AO (two syllables) [To Nicolaus: Nicolao]
In Lesson 3 we learned how to make Latin plurals.
The most common pluralising formulae were noted as being:
-A > -AE
-US > -US or -ÚS (Use a dictionary to make sure which.)
-UM > -A
-IS > -ES
-ES > -ES or -EI (Use a dictionary to make sure which.)
-U > -UA
(There are some exceptions to the above.)
In Lesson 4 we learned how to make a few more social
expressions:
Salvus sis!, Salvi sitis!, Salva sis!, Salvae sitis!
Gratias (maximas) Tibi ago!
Bonum iter Tibi exopto!
In Lesson 5 we learned how to pronounce the vowels of Latin. It is
now possible to hear the vowel sounds using the sound file with the
Latin materials at the Novaroma List Files at eGroups.
We are now going to proceed to the consonants and rules of accent.
The following letters/sounds are approximately as in English: B, D,
F, H, K, L, M, N, Q, S, T, X
Note some special points, however:
BS is pronounced PS as in "urbs", (city) "oorps".
G is never pronounced soft as in "gem", but always hard as in "get".
GN is pronounced like English "ng-n". "Gnosco" (be acquainted with)
is pronounced "ng-nosko" and "lignum" as "ling-noom".
D, T and L are pronounced with the tongue a bit more forward than in
English, touching the teeth. As in French.
M and N at the end of a word or before another consonant were very
weak and in fact pronounced as just a nasalisation of the preceeding
vowel, as in French. Thus "consul" was really "kõ-sool", and
"puellam" ("girl" in the accusative singular) is "pwel-lã". However,
this rule is almost never followed by modern speakers, and it is
generally permitted to pronounce the M and N with full force and
articulation in all positions (except in poetry).
N in front of C, K or G is pronounced like "ng" in English. Thus
"Anglus" (Englishman) is not "an-gloos", but "ang-gloos".
S is always S, never Z. "Rosa" (rose) is "raw-sa", not "raw-za", and
"mors" (death) is "mors", not "morz".
UI is as in "phooey". In the words "cuius" and "huius" the I is
pronounced twice and differntly so that it is "kwi+yoos" and
"hwi-yoos".
X as in English is "ks", never "gz". It may appear at the beginning
of a word, unlike English. E.g.: "Xystus" (portico, walkway).
Other sounds:
V is pronounced as English W. "In vino veritas" is "ihn wee-no
way-rih-tahs". Originally there was no differnce between the letters
"V" and "U". One is the consonant and the other the vowel and
normally one knew to pronounce a V before a vowel as the consonant.
However, there are exceptions to that rule, so it is convenient to
write with two separate letters. Some scholars, however, write both
with V and others both with U. E.g. "uinum" = "vinum".
Z is best pronounced as "dz" as in English "adze".
I at the beginning of a word before a vowel or in the middle of a
word between vowels is normally pronounced like an English
consonantal Y. E.g.: "Iúlius" is "yoo-li-oos" because the I at the
beginning is before a vowel and the second I is not between vowels.
Thus is sometimes called the I-longa when it was written extending
below and or above the levels of the other letters. (It was not
always so written.) It evolved as a written letter into J. This was
used for some centuries. More recently there was a movement to remove
it from clasical texts and to write both the vowel and the consonant
with the same symbol, "I". More recently still, some authorities such
as Traupman have been championing the use of the J for the consonant,
so as to make the pronuntiation clearer in those few words where
there might be doubt because of exceptions. Most classicists do not
use it, however. When it is used, it always means an English Y, never
an English J!
R is trilled with the tip of the tongue before a vowel. Before a
consonant or at the end of a word it is pronounced like an American
English R (i.e. as a schwar).
Now there are three special contrasts:
C vs. CH, P vs. PH, and T vs. TH.
The difference is the aspiration. "Aspiration" means the little puff
of air that we let come out of our mouths after certain sounds.
So, C is like K, but never with an aspiration. CH is like K with an
aspiration. And so forth.
This difference exists in English too, but normally we do not notice
it. But take a slip of paper and put it in front of your mouth. Then
say "key". Adjust the paper so that it jumps with the aspiration. Now
say "ski". If you say this naturally, the paper will *not* jump. We
really pronounce these words "khi" and "ski". This is the difference
between Latin CH and C.
Likewise with PH and P. Use your slip of paper again and say "pie"
and "spy". Again you will note aspiration for the first but not for
the second. The sounds are like Latin PH and P.
Finally, take your slip of paper and try "tow" and "stow". This is
the difference between TH and T.
Another approach to these sounds is to pronounce them as follows:
CH as in "cake house" (pronounced quickly!)
PH as in "top hat"
TH as in "hot house"
and to pronounce C, P and T with an especially small amount of
aspiration, almost like G, B and D, but without voicing.
Warning: In classical Latin we *never* pronounce PH as F, CH like
English or German CH, or TH like English TH.
Also, C is never pronounced as S or as TS or as English CH.
Remember that all double consonants are pronounced double (unlike
English). That means that we hold the sound of the consonant for an
extra beat, not that we actually pronounce it twice. As we say the
LL-sound in "hill-loving" as opposed to the single L of "healing".
A good example is "anus" (an old woman or hag) and "annus" (year). We
just hold the N longer, we do not move our tongues to our palate
twice. (If you are wondering, the English "anus" in Latin is with a
long A: "ánus".)
ACCENT
Latin, like most languages, has a stress accent on some syllables.
The Romans themselves claimed that this was a pitch or tonal accent
as in classical Greek, but this a point of scholarly disputation for
various technical linguistic reasons. Today virtually everyone uses a
stress accent, as in English.
Accent is almost never marked in Latin dictionaries, because it can
almost always be determined by a simple rule from the form of the
word. Here is the rule:
1. If a word has two syllables, the accent is on the first.
2. In longer words it is necessary to inspect the next to last
syllable (technically called the "penult"). If this syllable is long,
then the accent is there. If it is short, then the accent goes
forward in the word to the third syllable from the end (technically
called the "antepenult"). There are only these two possibilities.
3. The penult is long if it contains a long vowel or a diphthong. It
is also long ("by position" as we say) if it has a short vowel but
two consonants after that vowel.
X and Z each count as two consonants (ks and dz).
If R or L is the second consonant, the two do not count as double,
unless LL or RR.
CH, PH, TH and QU count as single consonants, and sometimes GU and
SU.
So: a-MÍ-cus, fa-MI-li-a, re-GUN-tur, spé-RÁ-mus, Ró-MÁ-nus,
Vir-GIL-i-us, BI-co-lor, Ró-má-NAE-que, Sep-TEM-ber, a-po-lac-TI-zo,
A-POL-ló, A-po-cha, ma-GIS-ter, FÉ-mi-na, fé-MEL-la, SAR-ci-na
Exceptions:
1. A few words have lost an E at the end, but keep the original
accent. E.g.: "illíc" (thence) from "illíce" is still pronounced
"il-LÍC"
2. When an ending in -IUS changes to -I in the vocative, the
"vanished" "US" still affects the accent: O Vir-GIL-í, O A-pol-LÓ-ní.
(This is also true of the shorter form of the genitive - the longer
form is -IÍ, and this also applies to -IUM-ending neuters.)
3. In a few compounds of "facere" (make, do) where the meaning of the
elements is very clear, the accent stays on the syllable "fa". E.g.:
"be-ne-FA-cit".
4. There are a very few words where I does not become a consonant
where one would expect it to, but remains a vowel.
heia (hay-a), Iúlus (the son of Aeneas - ih-OO-loos), T'róius (Trojan
- TRO-i-oos)
5. In some compounds of "iacere" (to throw)," IC is pronounced
"yihk". E.g.: tráició (trah-YIHK-i-o). In the system of spelling that
uses a J, this is spelled. In the saying at the bottom of my letters
there is the saying of Seneca: "Sí vís tibi omnia subicere, té subice
Ratióní" (If you want to subject all things to yourself, subject
yourself to Reason). With the spelling using J, this is spelled: "Sí
vís tibi omnia subjicere, té subjice Ratióní". Just a small exception
to the general rules.
That is the pronunciation of Latin. It is in general very regular.
Let us close with the names of the letters (the E is long when final
and its owm mame. and short at the beginning):
a, be, ce, de, e, ef, ge, ha, i, (i-longa), ka, el, em, en, o, pe,
qu, er, es, te, u, ve, ix, ypsilon, zéta
(ce = "kay", ve = "way", qu = "koo", zéta = "dzay-ta"!)
Homework:
1. Go back over all the sentences and words in previous lessons and
try to pronounce them correctly.
2. Read the following aloud. The correct accents will be given later.
Nova Róma est réspública. Novorómáni Novorómánaeque iam
permultí sunt. Cívés interretialiter inter sé nuntiís électronicís dé
rébus diversís certiórés saepe faciunt.
Latíné loquí nón est difficilissimum - difficilia nón sunt multa. Et
prónuntiátió facillissima omnibus hominibus est.
Philosophus est homó quí nón semper in theátrum it. Malit
philosophárí, nón dé puellís pulchrís cógitáre. Chartá calamóque
multís dé rébus scríbit.
Ciceró nón multum Caesarem amávit. Amásne Cicerónem Caesaremque?
Please feel free to send questions to me should doubts occur.
Valéte!
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Villa dei Quintili |
| From: |
"Marcus Attilius Regulus " <m.morgantini@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 06:52:38 -0000 |
|
Marcus Attilius Gaio Valentino salutem dicit.
About the end of the two Quintili brothers it's possible that they
were killed in 182 d.C. ; alcune fonti storiche lo confermano.Ma
anche l'ipotesi dell'esilio è probabile.
Tuttavia io credo che furono uccisi su ordine di Commodo.
Per tua informazione Commodo trasformò la Villa in un bordello; vi
radunò trecento giovani donne e trecento giovani uomini...per il
suo piacere e divertimento. E' molto triste per una residenza così
prestigiosa e situata in un luogo sacro alla Memoria di Roma.
Con amicizia.
Marco Attilio
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Roma capitale |
| From: |
"Marcus Attilius Regulus " <m.morgantini@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 07:41:02 -0000 |
|
Marcus Attilius omnibus salutem dicit.
I will try with my English! (sorry)
Dear citizens and friends,
I read some messages about NR Capital. The discussion is very
interessant. It's true that "Roma is where your heart is" but I think
we have to remember also "where is the heart of Roma?". Certenly not
out fo his sacred Pomerium.For all the ancient roman people to be out
of Pomerium , maby not so far , like in Trastevere or in Hostia, is
the samething to be abroad.So the sacred heart of Urbs is only into
the Pomerium.
If we need a official an symbolic Capital we have no other ways.
Roma shoud be.
If we need also an Administrative Capital , we can choose the city
that is more opportune for this work: New York , Milano, Hong Kong
,.... is not a problem. It is only a burocratic and amministrative
necessity.
I hope that all of you will be here.I'm waiting your visit in Roma,
Caput Mundi.
Con amicizia.
Marcus Attilius R.
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] 3rd century Legions |
| From: |
"Thomas Raisin" <AMBROSE30@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:07:13 EDT |
|
>From : Caius Ambrosius Valerius
To: Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Salve Caius, Many thanks for pics and info on
the 3rd Century shields. Would it be possible for you to send a shield
device from the 5th century from a unit from Britian . Legionary please if
possible or Saxon shore troops,or the Wall. Thank you. Perhaps we should
talk more. I am intrested in the 3rd Century Roman Army,from 200-to about
270 AD. Do you now someone who makes third century helms?. I currently own a
Imperial Gallic,Gladius and a coat of mail. As well an oval shield. Anyhow
thanks again Do not be shy . Lets talk Vale Caius .
>From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] 3rd century Legions
>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:55:15 +0200
>
>Salve, Caius Ambrosias Valerius.
>
>Thank you for your message. I´m sorry for my delay, but I´m a little short
>of
>time.
>
>There is one major problem regarding shield devices:
>
>All shield devices, also those in the Notitia Dignitatum, are highly
>speculative.
>
>The Notitia´s shield devices were copied again and again from the 5th
>century
>onwards and during the medieval age. No one knows if they were copied
>correctly,
>but it´s very possible that they are not. I think that the colors of the
>devices
>are nearly correct (you can´t make a great mistake there), but the figures
>on
>the shields were surely often simplified or misunderstood.
>
>Also, the Notitia shows shield devices from the early 5th century, the 3rd
>century lays, as so often, in darkness. Furthermore, the devices are only
>depicted for field armies, not for the frontier armies. I have a book which
>depicts a few shield devices from the 3rd century, but of course, they are
>speculative, too. Also, the units which belonged to this devices are not
>mentioned. I will make some scans for you, but give me a few days.
>
>Regarding the 2nd Adiutrix:
>There are only some possible devices from the Notitia. The frontier legion
>II
>Adiutirx has no device depicted. But it may be the mother unit for one of
>the
>secundani legions and for the acincenses, Legio pseudocomitatenses in
>Gallia
>(from "Aquincum"). But, I´m sorry, my new Notitia copy has no device for
>them
>depicted.
>
>I´m sorry that I can give you no more help.
>
>Vale
>Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
>
>Thomas Raisin schrieb:
>
> > Dear Sir My name is Caius Ambrosias Valerius a Citizen of Nova Roma and
>a
> > Roman military reenactor. I am intrested in the third century Roman
>legions.
> > I seek your help in 3rd century shield devices for a Roman Legion ( OVAL
> > SHAPE). I am interested in any military unit (legionary) device from the
> > following areas of the empire. Britain and IIIyrica . Infantry only
>please.
> > Also if you have the device of the II ADUTRIX which in the 3rd century
>was
> > stationed in the Budapest area please let me know. Also if you have any
> > pictures of scutums of the 3rd century please let me know. Thankyou
> >
> > Caius Ambrosias Valerius
> >
> > >From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
> > >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> > >To: "NovaRomaVizantia@--------" <NovaRomaVizantia@-------->,
> > >"novaroma@--------" <novaroma@-------->
> > >Subject: [novaroma] 3rd century Legions
> > >Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:35:10 +0200
> > >
> > >Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
> > >
> > >
> > >Another question to our military historians.
> > >
> > >Much is written about our famous ancient legions. One peak was reached
> > >under Septimius Severus, when 33 legions were established. But, as much
> > >we know about the legions of this time and the time before, as little
>is
> > >know about the further developement in the 3rd century. So it´s
> > >mentioned that the Legio III Augusta in North Africa was disbanded by
> > >Gordianus.
> > >
> > >Some of my primary books about the later roman army are:
> > >M. N. Nicasie: Twilight of Empire, Amsterdam 1998,
> > >P. Southern and K. R. Dixon: The Late Roman Army, New Haven and London,
> > >1996
> > >R. S. Cromwell: The Rise and Decline of the Late Roman Field Army,
> > >Shippensburg 1998,
> > >B. Filow: Die Legionen der Provinz Moesia, Leipzig 1906.
> > >
> > >I´m very sorry, I have no access to the Notitia Dignitatum. But perhaps
> > >a fellow citizen have.
> > >
> > >Nicasie writes that the numbers of legions slowly increased during the
> > >3rd century up to about 60 when Diocletian came to power. The main
> > >question now is:
> > >
> > >Which legions were raised during the 3rd Century and by Diocletian?
> > >
> > >Some are known:
> > >
> > >I Illyrica (or Illyricorum)
> > >IV Martia (both Aurelian)
> > >
> > >I Iovia
> > >II Herculia
> > >VI Herculia
> > >III Diocletiana
> > >I Pontica
> > >I Martia
> > >
> > >Some legions were drafted form exisiting units or newly established
> > >(without a number):
> > >Ioviani
> > >Herculiani
> > >Divitenses
> > >Solenses
> > >
> > >Is it possible that if there were 2 Legions as II Herculia and VI
> > >Herculia, that there were also a I, III, IV and V Herculia (also
> > >possible for the units called Martia)?
> > >
> > >I´m very grateful for any help.
> > >
> > >Valete
> > >Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Precationes |
| From: |
Tom Nicolas <fixt@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:18:17 -0700 |
|
Ave Flavius Vedius
Ave Priscilla Vedia
congratulations on the expectation of our newest little roman. I
pray that your child will bring pride to you the parents, and fame and
added dignitas to your gens. We have not met, let me introduce myself,
Lucius Cornelius Quirinus. Once again may Fortuna smile upon you and yours.
Sincerely,
Lucius Cornelius Quirinus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Edictum: Scriba Appointment |
| From: |
Tom Nicolas <fixt@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:22:20 -0700 |
|
Ave, Servilia Manlia!
My name is Lucius Cornelius Quirinus, and may i add my
congratulations to the many i'm sure you are deservedly recieving. My
prayers are that your performance in your new position will add to your
personal dignitas, and to the auctoritas of your gens. May all the
gods smile upon your endeavors.
Sincerley,
Lucius Cornelius Quirinus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] |
| From: |
Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:11:36 -0600 |
|
What's wrong with that page? It looks perfectly appropriate for children,
even if it plays a bit loosely with the facts here and there. In fact, this
is exactly the sort of page that we should be presenting to children ... it
has lots of things to 'hook' kids' interest and that's precisely what you
want to do to ensure that there is later interest in ancient Rome.
dm
At Thursday 8/17/00 06:59 PM -0700, you wrote:
>for some reason I thought only the united States made stupid one sided news
>stories. however, here is a prime example of the kind of education our
>children recieve from the BBC:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/romans/city.html
>
>I think we need a nice kids page on our site and i volenteer to help create
>one. If someone would like to contact me and let me know if you wanna help
>and how then it would be appreciated. Thanx!
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] |
| From: |
Lauriat <blauriat@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:47:28 -0400 (EDT) |
|
I agree. It's extremely remedial but at least it's not saying "ANcient
Rome was a degenerate society that was destroyed by its own moral
depravity and good riddance to bad rubbish," which unfortunately seems to
be a common notion.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Marcus Papirius Justus wrote:
> What's wrong with that page? It looks perfectly appropriate for children,
> even if it plays a bit loosely with the facts here and there. In fact, this
> is exactly the sort of page that we should be presenting to children ... it
> has lots of things to 'hook' kids' interest and that's precisely what you
> want to do to ensure that there is later interest in ancient Rome.
>
> dm
>
>
>
> At Thursday 8/17/00 06:59 PM -0700, you wrote:
> >for some reason I thought only the united States made stupid one sided news
> >stories. however, here is a prime example of the kind of education our
> >children recieve from the BBC:
> >
> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/romans/city.html
> >
> >I think we need a nice kids page on our site and i volenteer to help create
> >one. If someone would like to contact me and let me know if you wanna help
> >and how then it would be appreciated. Thanx!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Day (was NR Capitol) |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" <n_moravius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:19:45 GMT |
|
Salve mi Ponti atque alibus salutem
Would you like to rephrase this post of yours in terms which will not
indicate to our (assumed) readers in several macronational intelligence
gathering agencies that we are NOT bent on world domination?
Vado.
>Until, of course, the day when we are able to overcome all outside forces
>politically. I think we ought to have a name for this time. A goal to
>which we should strive in the real world.
>
>The goal would not simply be to overcome the political power of the United
>States Government, it would be to overcome all opposing political powers.
>I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple.. Any
>thoughts?
>C. Pontius
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma capital |
| From: |
"j.mason4" <j.mason4@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:17:24 +0100 |
|
Pontius wrote,
>
> I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple.. Any
thoughts?
C. Pontius
How about ROMANO LABORARE FACTIO, it has a ring to it.?
>
>
> >
> >.
> >.
> >... For who would annihilate a peaceful people who only wish to live
> >as they choose.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >
> Haven't read much of human history, have you? We've annihilated quite a
> number of peaceful peoples who only wished to live as they chose. We
> still are -- heard of Bosnia? Kosovo? The Kurdish people of Turkey and
> Iraq? Rwanda? Angola? Ethiopia? Rhodesia? Somalia? Kampuchea? The Branch
> Davidians at Waco?
>
> I'm sorry but being peaceful, inoffensive, and just wanting to live as
> they choose has never protected anyone anywhere.
>
> Sorry, but sometimes it's necessary to take a dose of reality.
>
> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>
> certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
> (You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] nekkid mens, er, the male nude |
| From: |
"Vireo" <deisis19@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:22:54 -0400 |
|
New York Times
Arts & Leisure
August 13, 2000
A Man-Made Arcadia Enshrining Male Beauty
By VICKI GOLDBERG
VASARI'S life of Michelangelo reports that the artist believed
the male body was "something divine," an idea so powerful that for 200 years
it was thought appropriate to make nude monuments to Napoleon and Beethoven.
For several centuries, artists regarded the male rather than the female nude
as the noblest subject they could treat. In the 19th century, when the naked
female triumphed decisively over the naked male in art, it turned out to be
a pyrrhic victory, with women not so much ennobled as reduced to sex
objects.
The long-term superiority of the male nude in western art depended
on classical Greece, where a homosexual preference was openly expressed in
vase painting and in literature. Later, though the sexual nature of the
female nude was always evident, the homoerotic element of male nudity was
seldom explicit or even acknowledged, though it could be implied or
inferred. Greece was the source to which artists looked for justification,
for compositional types, sometimes for subjects. Greek mythical or
historical subjects automatically conferred a certain dignity on artistic
enterprises and were the best excuse for male nudity since Adam.
As it turns out, this held true even for photography. The first
photographer to make male nudes popular subjects for both homosexuals and
heterosexuals was Baron Wilhelm von Gloeden (1856-1931), an East Prussian
aristocrat who worked in Sicily, primarily from 1890 to 1914.
Forty-one of his images, most of them of young Italian boys got up
like ancient Greeks, are currently on view at Throckmorton Fine Art in
midtown Manhattan (through Sept. 9).
The baron, after he was found to have a lung disorder (probably
tuberculosis), moved to Taormina in 1878 for his health. Evidently he left
Germany for other reasons, too, being unable to fulfill his sexual fantasies
or desires in his native land. He took up photography as a hobby, encouraged
by Wilhelm von Plüschow, a distant relative who lived in Naples and also
specialized in pictures of young nude men. Germany in the 1880's was still
prosecuting men for nude sunbathing, but in Sicily, male children ordinarily
went nude on the beach, and most Mediterranean countries tacitly accepted
homosexuality as a passing phase in a boy's development.
Von Gloeden's pictures are fascinating as much for what they
reveal about the late 19th century, the history of sexuality, and
photography itself as they are for their sometimes beauty and campiness. He
created an arcadian past embodied by the local boys dressed up in togas or
loincloths or simply their bare skins, with garlands in their hair or
laced-up sandals on their feet, carrying Pan pipes or stringed instruments,
gazing off at Mount Etna, posing next to amphorae, holding palm leaves,
toying with grape clusters. Von Gloeden was an innovator, taking the nude
body out of the studio, where it had resided in the 19th century, and
photographing it in his private garden or some secluded outdoor spot .
He created a theatrical idyll, a classical age that had never
existed outside the imagination of those who wished it had. This faux-Greek
paradise was a place of pastoral grace, eternal youth and budding
masculinity. It was the photographer's fantasy come almost true, enacted by
contemporary peasants who must have taken time off from their outdoor labor
to play roles in this romance. Von Gloeden paid them for their time before
his lens, and their expressions indicate that they trusted him and enjoyed
the game.
Both the past and the pastoral were von Gloeden's inventions. His
props were a mix of different periods and his models altogether unlike the
delicate young men wooed by athletes in Greek vase painting. One or two of
the Sicilian boys have stocky bodies that would not have fit the Greek
ideal. Some were even North African, with dark skins. The ancient Greeks, to
whom the word barbaric meant "not Greek" (it later meant "not Roman," and
later still "not Christian"), presumably would not have found them so
attractive.
Besides, child labor was common in Taormina, and several of the
boys, despite the photographer's attempts to cover up the effects of weather
and work, have sunburned faces, necks and hands acquired through laboring
outdoors in a good deal more clothing than they wore for him. (Taormina was
poverty-stricken and threadbare when von Gloeden arrived. He contributed to
its improvement, and by the late century, it was a thriving tourist spot.)
The glory and peculiarity of these pictures is the exacting degree
of realism the camera cannot help bestowing. If a boy's ribs show or a
shoulder is bony or a bit of fuzz is beginning to grow on his upper lip,
photography adds that information to Arcadia. It does not hesitate to point
out that none of the models have been circumcised, or that some, though
barely into adolescence, have sprouted pubic hair. A dying boy dramatically
sprawled on his back on a large rock, in a pose roughly derived from
Hellenistic sculpture (but upon whose groin a large bunch of leaves has
decorously fallen), is indisputably a real boy who is just as indisputably
not dying. As Roland Barthes once wrote, "The Baron's photographs are at the
same time sublime and anatomical."
At the turn of the century, von Gloeden's pictures were popular
with a wide and educated audience. Well, some were. Others were popular with
a more restricted and educated audience of homosexuals. His work was shown
in international exhibitions and published in art journals, which doubtless
preferred the more discreet images, for von Gloeden's project spoke to the
hopes of the time.
The late 19th century experienced a gathering sense of unease in
the face of all the changes brought on by the Industrial Revolution, changes
that threatened established ways of life. The dream of a long-gone golden
age when life was simpler, calmer and more innocent -- that dream that seems
to recur whenever "progress" looms and anxiety creeps up on material well
being -- had seized the popular imagination. Taormina, von Gloeden and his
photographs seemed to incarnate the dream. His studio was a drawing card for
tourists; his guest book included the signatures of Oscar Wilde, Eleonora
Duse, J. P. Morgan and King Edward VII.
Of these guests, perhaps only Wilde correctly translated the
erotic messages underlying the classical gloss on these photographs. In the
century that Michel Foucault said had "invented" homosexuality, the coded
signs that initiates could recognize were subtly embroidered upon. But
today, von Gloeden's photographs do not seem subtle in the least.
Nineteenth-century ideas about sexuality were sometimes primitive
and hazy, but 19th-century powers of self-deception were highly developed.
So was the ability to devise elegant stratagems to legitimize sexual
display.
Classicism covered a multitude of sins while uncovering the body,
and it made a habit of doing so throughout the century. In 1863, for
example, Alexandre Cabanel painted "The Birth of Venus" as a
straightforwardly lascivious image of a juicy-fleshed young woman lying on
her back on the sea, from which Venus usually rises. Had it hung above a
bar, no one would have noticed the painter's artistry, but Cabanel had a
high reputation in the academy, and so did his classical subject. Like
Cabanel's Venus, von Gloeden's naked peasants fiddling with Pan pipes
fulfilled three wishes: for art, for classical tranquillity and for
permissible glimpses of desirable bodies.
They did even more for homosexuals, who could also buy his more
starkly naked postcards, which could not be mailed to friends. Around the
turn of the century, as homosexual culture gathered force, a few periodicals
were established to cater to gay men's tastes; these, too, reproduced some
of von Gloeden's photographs.
Von Gloeden was an artful dodger whose work circumvented the
appointed censors. Not only his hybrid classicism but also his artistic bona
fides made admirable what would otherwise have been illicit. He borrowed
from many masters other than the Greek and had a large following himself.
As most male nude photographs up to his time had been
"académies" -- studio studies of mature individuals that were intended for
artists and that made no effort at naturalness -- von Gloeden's work was a
kind of treasure trove for artists. In his own time, he had an influence on
F.
Holland Day, Frederick Leighton, Alma Tademas and Maxfield Parish,
and after his death on Cecil Beaton, Andy Warhol, Robert Mapplethorpe and
Bruce Weber.
Not bad for a man who might have well been arrested for child
pornography in our supposedly more tolerant and certainly less willfully
innocent culture. Von Gloeden was interested only in young boys and early
adolescents (except in genre pictures of the local population). He
photographed some of the same models for years but usually stopped doing so
as they reached early manhood. A couple of young children who cannot be much
more than 5 or 6 also turn up in his photographs.
By the turn of the century, Freud had recognized the sexual nature
of children, but good citizens would have considered that kind of wisdom
mere folly. Under the guise of erudite classicism, the public opted for
ignorance, bliss and the promise of eternal youth and all-male company in
the shadow of Mount Etna.
Email: deisis19@--------
AIM: VireoIbis
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] entiendo |
| From: |
"lincoln13" <lincoln13@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:32:34 -0400 |
|
no e perdido o olvidado el nombre:maximus socellius fue el que aplique i si
aplique por una nueva gens.
le agradesco su tiempo por contestarme .
entiendo lo que se refiere a serca de roma socieda creo que e respetado
perfectamente en el otro caso creo que se me ofendio por parte de unos de
sus grandes senadores lucius cornelius sulla .
si se fija en la lista parece que el es el tercero de los mas inportantes en
esa lista the censors .
yo nunca escribi burlandome de nada relacionado a roma socieda .
yo tuve que escribir a el porque queria aplicar por un nuevo gens i la
respuesta que el mando fue un poco no tan amigable .
como ha visto usted me a contestado el todavia no lo a echo .
yo no pienso seguir gastando mi tiempo en juegos de censores yo aplique
porque estoy mui interesado en aprender literatura religion romana (no
politica)si ha visto los e-mails the nova roma politica es lo unico que e
visto peleando puesto i regiones i peleando mienbros entre si el senor
sulla ataco a otro de sus mismos mienbros de spawn la respuesta de el otro
mienbro fue un poco pesada dirigiendoses varios e-mails un poco pesados /no
se si aya leido esos e-mails o no. www.ancientsites.com/xi/interface/guide
e optenido vastante informacion en roma i los grupos parecen que si estan
interesados a aprender aserca de roma se tarda 5 minutos para ser mienbro.
de nuevo le agradesco el haver contestado i ojala no crea que esto es
ofensibo les deseo mucha suerte en su tarea por reestableser una nueva roma
sinceramente un amigo lincoln ulysses oviedo
the three centuries between the great age of marcus aurelius and the
overwelming of rome by barbarians in the fifth century a.d is often called
the epoch of rome's "decline and fall." but romans who lived in those
centuries did not know it was falling.to then, the business of empire
appeared to go on as usual:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Pompeius Octavianus <octavianuslucius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:23 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: help please
Estimado lincoln :
Espero haber comprendido tu mensaje. Cuando llenaste la solicitud,
tuviste que elegir tu nombre romano incluyendo el apellido (gens). Si
fuiste aprobado, eso significa que también te aprobaron el nombre
que
elegiste y el apellido (gens). Porque el "paterfamilias" o padre de
una "gens" o familia te tuvo que aprobar. Espero no malinterpretarte.
Me da la impresión que olvidaste el nombre que elegiste. Me
equivoco
?. De cualquier manera veré qué puedo hacer. En caso que hayas
querido crear una "gens" nueva, entonces no te puedo ser de mucha
ayuda porque yo no creé ninguna, sino que fui aceptado en una ya
existente. En caso que hayas elegido incorporarte a una gens
existente, dependerá del paterfamilias de esa gens si te aprueba o
no. Es cierto, la aprobación de la solicitud tarda muchísimo.
En mi
caso en particular tuve que esperar muchas semanas, pero finalmente
llegó. También es totalmente cierto que Nova Roma no es como
los
demás sitios de Internet, que realmente es una micronación
independiente con sus leyes, su sistema de gobierno y sus
funcionarios. Ser ciudadano de Nova Roma implica respetar las leyes y
las autoridades de la misma. Ojalá que esto que te escribo te sea
útil.
Ahora me despido con un saludo cordial y esperando poder ayudarte
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
-- In novaroma@--------, "lincoln13" <lincoln13@n...> wrote:
> gracias reciby un mensage diciendo que se me aprobo la ciudadania
romana .
> pero el mensage no tiene mi nombre ni la familia(gens).
> cuando aplique le mande un mensage al censor ( senador)lucius sula
> porque no estava seguro del nombre yo queria pertenecer a hispanica
i no
> queria haser algo malo el me respondio no mui agradable diciendome
que
> llenara la aplicacion que no era tan dificil el me iba a decir si
se me
> aprobava en 2 a 3 semanas .i que los censors (senadores ) escogian
el gengs
> por cosas de votaciones i puestos i que no podia pertenecer a
hispanica.
> burlanse de mi trabajo (soy maestro de artes marciales ) me dijo
que el
> trabajo en la aplicacion se referia al trabajo verdadero no al que
se hase
> en el internet.
> segui su muy amigable consejo me senti un poco ofendido porque
parese que
> el es uno de los mas altos en esta organisacion i el es el
encargado de
> aceptar a los nuevos mienbros.
> i lo que el me dijo no fue necesariamente un mensaje de bievenidos
a roma .
> espere 3 semanas me manda el mensage diciendo se aprobo la
ciudadania pero
> no aparece el nombre o el gens.
> como ve me siento confundido porque e sido aprovado pero no se cual
es mi
> --------re o mi ge--------l me--------e fue ma--------o a mi e-mail li------------------------
> le respondy preguntando mui amable que disculpara pero al momento
de aplicar
> se me dijo que se me iba a asignar los gens que si me podia mandar
mi
> nombre i gengs an sido varios dias i no hay respuesta no se si
tenga que
> esperar otras 3 semanas lo e visto mandando e-mail a gente que esta
peleando
> con el aserca de la noticia de spawn pero la gente que pregunta
amable no
> recibe respuesta.
> pertenesco a muchos grupos de; mensa,high society,rosae crucis
,hasta grupos
> de vino (26 grupos en total)nunca e tenido problema con menbresia
ni e
> tenido que esperar 3 semanas para ser aprovado.
> si sabes como puedo saber mi nombre i gengs a parte de preguntar al
senor
> sulla se lo agradecere .
> gracias lincoln ulysses oviedo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Luc--------Pompe--------Octav--------s <octav--------sluc---------------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 12:44 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: help please
>
>
> Hola Lincoln. Por lo que leí al final de tu mensaje, hablas
> español.
> Si necesitás ayuda en este idioma, trataré de ayudarte en lo
> que
> pueda.
> Saludos cordiales.
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
> -- In novaroma@--------, "lincoln13" <lincoln13@n...> wrote:
> > i got acepted as a roman citizen.
> > the e-mail whas recibe mi name whas no include in the e-mail mi
> paterfamilia
> > gens whas no include too in the e-mail sinces i don't save the
name
> when i
> > apply i don't remenber .
> > i reply to the person same the e-mail asking to e-mail me back we
> the name
> > and the gens because whas tell to me tha the consul will pick the
> gens for
> > me i still dont recibe answer if any body is no to busy ,and
> please let me
> > know what i supost to due ?i think we need some more atention to
> help new
> > menbers.?
> > mi e-mail adress is li------------------------ i am a -------- roma me--------
thank
> > you muchas gracias
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________
> > Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
> > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
> > ___________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Why pay for something you could get for free?
> NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: entiendo |
| From: |
"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:00:21 -0000 |
|
Hola Lincoln
Acabo de leer su mensaje. Yo ya le envié un e-mail al censor Sulla
por su caso. Él me prometió que me iba a enviar un e-mail
cuando
tuviese la información. Apenas la tenga, te la enviaré por este
medio.
Gracias por los deseos del restablecimiento de nueva Roma. Yo hace
poquito que soy ciudadano.
En cuanto a lo de Anciensites, yo también soy miembro de ahí.
Si le
interesa saber, mi nombre en AS es Fabricius Marius. Soy miembro
desde hace más de un año. También si le interesa, yo tengo
un grupo
en egroups llamado "mundoantiguo" :
http://www.egroups.com/group/mundoantiguo
Estás invitado a suscribirteal mismo.
Un saludo cordial
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
--- In novaroma@--------, "lincoln13" <lincoln13@n...> wrote:
> no e perdido o olvidado el nombre:maximus socellius fue el que
aplique i si
> aplique por una nueva gens.
> le agradesco su tiempo por contestarme .
> entiendo lo que se refiere a serca de roma socieda creo que e
respetado
> perfectamente en el otro caso creo que se me ofendio por parte de
unos de
> sus grandes senadores lucius cornelius sulla .
> si se fija en la lista parece que el es el tercero de los mas
inportantes en
> esa lista the censors .
> yo nunca escribi burlandome de nada relacionado a roma socieda .
> yo tuve que escribir a el porque queria aplicar por un nuevo gens i
la
> respuesta que el mando fue un poco no tan amigable .
> como ha visto usted me a contestado el todavia no lo a echo .
> yo no pienso seguir gastando mi tiempo en juegos de censores yo
aplique
> porque estoy mui interesado en aprender literatura religion romana
(no
> politica)si ha visto los e-mails the nova roma politica es lo unico
que e
> visto peleando puesto i regiones i peleando mienbros entre si el
senor
> sulla ataco a otro de sus mismos mienbros de spawn la respuesta de
el otro
> mienbro fue un poco pesada dirigiendoses varios e-mails un poco
pesados /no
> se si aya leido esos e-mails o no.
www.ancientsites.com/xi/interface/guide
> e optenido vastante informacion en roma i los grupos parecen que si
estan
> interesados a aprender aserca de roma se tarda 5 minutos para ser
mienbro.
> de nuevo le agradesco el haver contestado i ojala no crea que esto
es
> ofensibo les deseo mucha suerte en su tarea por reestableser una
nueva roma
> sinceramente un amigo lincoln ulysses oviedo
> the three centuries between the great age of marcus aurelius and the
> overwelming of rome by barbarians in the fifth century a.d is often
called
> the epoch of rome's "decline and fall." but romans who lived in
those
> centuries did not know it was falling.to then, the business of
empire
> appeared to go on as usual:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Luc--------Pompe--------Octav--------s <octav--------sluc---------------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:23 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: help please
>
>
> Estimado lincoln :
> Espero haber comprendido tu mensaje. Cuando llenaste la solicitud,
> tuviste que elegir tu nombre romano incluyendo el apellido (gens).
Si
> fuiste aprobado, eso significa que también te aprobaron el nombre
> que
> elegiste y el apellido (gens). Porque el "paterfamilias" o padre de
> una "gens" o familia te tuvo que aprobar. Espero no
malinterpretarte.
> Me da la impresión que olvidaste el nombre que elegiste. Me
> equivoco
> ?. De cualquier manera veré qué puedo hacer. En caso que hayas
> querido crear una "gens" nueva, entonces no te puedo ser de mucha
> ayuda porque yo no creé ninguna, sino que fui aceptado en una ya
> existente. En caso que hayas elegido incorporarte a una gens
> existente, dependerá del paterfamilias de esa gens si te aprueba
o
> no. Es cierto, la aprobación de la solicitud tarda muchísimo.
> En mi
> caso en particular tuve que esperar muchas semanas, pero finalmente
> llegó. También es totalmente cierto que Nova Roma no es como
> los
> demás sitios de Internet, que realmente es una micronación
> independiente con sus leyes, su sistema de gobierno y sus
> funcionarios. Ser ciudadano de Nova Roma implica respetar las leyes
y
> las autoridades de la misma. Ojalá que esto que te escribo te sea
> útil.
> Ahora me despido con un saludo cordial y esperando poder ayudarte
>
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
> -- In novaroma@--------, "lincoln13" <lincoln13@n...> wrote:
> > gracias reciby un mensage diciendo que se me aprobo la ciudadania
> romana .
> > pero el mensage no tiene mi nombre ni la familia(gens).
> > cuando aplique le mande un mensage al censor ( senador)lucius sula
> > porque no estava seguro del nombre yo queria pertenecer a
hispanica
> i no
> > queria haser algo malo el me respondio no mui agradable
diciendome
> que
> > llenara la aplicacion que no era tan dificil el me iba a decir si
> se me
> > aprobava en 2 a 3 semanas .i que los censors (senadores ) escogian
> el gengs
> > por cosas de votaciones i puestos i que no podia pertenecer a
> hispanica.
> > burlanse de mi trabajo (soy maestro de artes marciales ) me dijo
> que el
> > trabajo en la aplicacion se referia al trabajo verdadero no al que
> se hase
> > en el internet.
> > segui su muy amigable consejo me senti un poco ofendido porque
> parese que
> > el es uno de los mas altos en esta organisacion i el es el
> encargado de
> > aceptar a los nuevos mienbros.
> > i lo que el me dijo no fue necesariamente un mensaje de bievenidos
> a roma .
> > espere 3 semanas me manda el mensage diciendo se aprobo la
> ciudadania pero
> > no aparece el nombre o el gens.
> > como ve me siento confundido porque e sido aprovado pero no se
cual
> es mi
> > nombre o mi gens el mensage fue mandado a mi e-mail
li------------------------
> > le respondy preguntando mui amable que disculpara pero al momento
> de aplicar
> > se me dijo que se me iba a asignar los gens que si me podia
mandar
> mi
> > nombre i gengs an sido varios dias i no hay respuesta no se si
> tenga que
> > esperar otras 3 semanas lo e visto mandando e-mail a gente que
esta
> peleando
> > con el aserca de la noticia de spawn pero la gente que pregunta
> amable no
> > recibe respuesta.
> > pertenesco a muchos grupos de; mensa,high society,rosae crucis
> ,hasta grupos
> > de vino (26 grupos en total)nunca e tenido problema con menbresia
> ni e
> > tenido que esperar 3 semanas para ser aprovado.
> > si sabes como puedo saber mi nombre i gengs a parte de preguntar
al
> senor
> > sulla se lo agradecere .
> > gracias lincoln ulysses oviedo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Luc--------Pompe--------Octav--------s <octav--------sluc---------------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 12:44 AM
> > Subject: [novaroma] Re: help please
> >
> >
> > Hola Lincoln. Por lo que leí al final de tu mensaje, hablas
> > español.
> > Si necesitás ayuda en este idioma, trataré de ayudarte en lo
> > que
> > pueda.
> > Saludos cordiales.
> > Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> >
> > -- In novaroma@--------, "lincoln13" <lincoln13@n...> wrote:
> > > i got acepted as a roman citizen.
> > > the e-mail whas recibe mi name whas no include in the e-mail mi
> > paterfamilia
> > > gens whas no include too in the e-mail sinces i don't save the
> name
> > when i
> > > apply i don't remenber .
> > > i reply to the person same the e-mail asking to e-mail me back
we
> > the name
> > > and the gens because whas tell to me tha the consul will pick
the
> > gens for
> > > me i still dont recibe answer if any body is no to busy ,and
> > please let me
> > > know what i supost to due ?i think we need some more atention to
> > help new
> > > menbers.?
> > > mi e-mail adress is li------------------------ i am a -------- roma me--------
> thank
> > > you muchas gracias
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________
> > > Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
> > > Request a CDROM 1-800-333-3633
> > > ___________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Why pay for something you could get for free?
> > NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
> > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
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