Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Precationes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:31:07 -0400

Salvete omnes,

On behalf of myself and my wife, I wish to proffer my humble thanks for the
good wishes that have been expressed on our behalf, and on behalf of our
unborn child. The waters have receded (and thanks to the Gods of Asgard and
Olympus for that!), and my dear wife's pregnancy proceeds well.

This is Nova Roma at her best; an extended family looking out for one
another. This is what we are; not the petty bickering that occasionally
shows its ugly head.

I shall make the offering to the spirit of the river this weekend, in the
Roman fashion. (I should also say that I had already promised a sacrifice in
the Norse fashion, so this is a nice symmetry.)

Thanks again for the good thoughts.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Priscilla Vedia Serena

----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Ford <gens_moravia@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 4:00 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Precationes

> EX DOMO CONSILIARIS RELIGIONIS DE CONSULIS IUNIOR
>
> At the request of Consul Marcus Minucius Audens the following prayers and
sacrifice are offered to thegods for the preservation of Senator Flavius
Vedius Germanicus and Priscilla Vedia Serena from the recent floods, and for
the blessing of their coming child.
>
> "To the gods Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, Neptunus and Oceanus, and to the
divine Musconetcong, whether god or goddess, Consul Marcus Minucius Audens,
on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova Roma, offers through me Nicolaus
Moravius Vado, grateful thanks for the protection and deliverance of Senator
Flavius Vedius Germanicus and of Priscilla vedia Serena and of their unborn
child, and also of their house, their land and property from the flood; for
which the said Marcus Minucius Audens freely and joyfully performs through
me Nicolaus Moravius Vado this sacrifice of incense, of cakes, and sweet
wine, at this my lararium.
>
> "For these things, therefore, Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, Neptunus, Oceanus
and Musconetcong, be honoured by these offerings. Fiat! Fiat! Fiat!
>
> "And to the goddess Iuno, to the Mother Goddesses of America, and to all
the numina whose care is the conception, growth and wellbeing of the unborn,
the said Marcus Minucius Audens offers through me the said Nicolaus Moravius
Vado, on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova Roma, thanks for the
blessing of fruitfulness to the said Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Priscilla
Vedia Serena, and for the future wellbeing of their unborn child; for which
the said Marcus Minucius Audens freely and joyfully performs through me the
said Nicolaus Moravius Vado this sacrifice of incense, of cakes and sweet
wine, at this my lararium.
>
> "For these things, therefore, Lady Iuno, Divine Mothers and numina, be
honoured by these offerings. Fiat! Fiat! Fiat!"
>
> These prayers and sacrifices have been made and offered at my lararium
this day.
>
> If some kind and pious citizen able to do so would actually offer cake and
wine into the waters of the Musconetcong (as I am not confident that these
offerings could reach a river deity 3,000 miles away), I shall be most
grateful.
>
> Pace deorum,
>
> Vado.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem XIV Kalendas September
From:	"Lucius" <vergil@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:01:36 -0400

Saturday 19 VINALIA RVSTICA dies fastus

This is one of the dies fasti (F), on which legal actions are permitted.

This day was known as the Vinalia Rustica or the Vinalia Altera. On this day the first new wine was brought into the city. This day was a holiday specifically for the growers or kitchen-gardeners (holitores), and feasts and wine drinking were the order of the day.
Augustus died this day at Nola in Campania in 14 AD. He was 75.
This day was also the dies natalis for the temple of Venus.

19 August XII (Julian XIV) KAL.SEPT. F
VINALIA
VINALIA Veneri ad Circum Maximum (Vall.)
VINALIA Feriae Iovi (Allif.)

This was the second Festival of Wine, following the Vinalia Priora of 23 April. As we have seen (p.106), they originally honoured Jupiter, but later Venus was associated with them. It seems that the wine of the previous harvest could first be brought to Rome on 23 April, while on 19 August the ceremonies of the Vinalia Rustica were designed to gain protection of the growing wines, and the flamen Dialis officially announced the vintage (auspicatur vindemoniam), a practice which continued in Varro's day.
The temple of Venus Obsequens near the Circus Maximus was built by Q. Fabius Maximus Gurges out of fines which he, as curule aedile, had imposed on women convicted of adultery; it was begun in 295 BC, possibly as a thank-offering for his father's victory over the Samites at Sentinum that year. 224
Though not recorded in the Fasti Antiates, which refer to Venere and not to Veneribus, a temple to Venus Libitina was dedicated on 19 August in the Lucus Libitinae on the Esquiline. This area was the headquarters of the undertakers (libitinarii) where lists of the dead were kept and funerals arranged. Plutarch speculates on the curious connection: was it a philosophical device (instituted by Numa) to eliminate repugnance of funerals or a reminder that one goddess presides over births and deaths? Varro distinguishes between Venus Libitina and Venus Libentina, the goddess of sensual pleasure. 225

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Pontifex

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] unattainable desire
From:	"j.mason4" <j.mason4@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:55:27 +0100

MAGIS CONSILIO QUAM VIRTUTE VICIT
( He won more because of his strategy than his courage )

~~~~~~~~ CAPUT I ~~~~~~~~

Caesar climbed the ancient foot worn steps that led from the encampment, his heart pounding from the heat of the afternoon sun.
Stooped forward from the heavy climb, the perspiration stinging his eyes.
He held his head aloft and beheld the magnificent countenance of Alexander's effigy,"AAAOOWWWWWWAAARRGGGHHH.( He wailed)
YOU HAVE CONQUERED HALF THE WORLD BEFORE MY AGE, AND I CONQUERED NOTHING."
Caesar wept bitterly at the foot of the gleaming white effigy, his aids rushed to comfort him, he would not be consoled.

Was this a tuning point in Caesar's life, the transition from prepubescent yearning to world conquest.?

~~~Structor~~~

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Subject:	[novaroma] Pleased to announce
From:	"Lucius" <vergil@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:58:06 -0400

Salvete,

I am pleased to announce that Lolita Peraltia, wife of Marcus Equitius Lentulus has given birth by Caesarian to a boy 8 lb. 7 oz. The baby is well (as I heard his hearty cries myself) and Lolita is doing well too, but will remain in the hospital for a couple of days. She will then spend a week or two with her sister-in-law in convalescence (this is a very great help to the mother as my wife stayed with her mother after the birth of our kids)
He is John Albert Herman Graef for both his grandfathers (we'll figure out a proper Roman name later ;-)

Thanks to the Gods everything turned out well.

Valete, Lucius Equitius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Virgin birth of a Caesar ?
From:	"M G" <fresco@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:50:35 +0300

Marcus Prometheus civibus omnibus SPM dicit

Somebody told me that to a Roman Emperor ( a Caesar)
was attributed the same virgin birth that Christians attribute to
Jesus, Buddhist to Buddha and Indus to Krisna.
I asked which emperor, and more detalis, but I didn't receive any.

I am not convinced at all and I never heard something like that before.
Somebody knows more ? If so , please help.

Thanking you in advance.

VALETE

Marcus Prometheus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Need a suggestion
From:	"M G" <fresco@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:43:31 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Grilo <amg@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, 09 August, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Need a suggestion

Marcus Prometheus Antonii Grilli et civibus omnibus SPM dicit

Caro Antonio,
please excuse me if after some vacations I intervene
with some enquiry about your old answer to a previous post of somebody else
which I did not receive.

you quoted this previous post:
>> .... a Christian symbol from Roman Times.
> >It was the Symbol the Emperor Constantine saw
>> when he converted to Christianity and
> > became the first ever Christian Emperor.

I think you and the previous correspondent were speaking about the X P
monogram (quoted also later on, and not the cross + ) .
1st question: is it correct?.
2nd question: What is your opinion about when the XP entered in use on the
roman imperial LABARI, SCUTA etc?
and 3rd question When did the simple cross began to be used as imperial
symbol if it ever did?

Then You say:
> Well, this is what christian writers say, and it is not corroborated by
> other chronicles and historic events.
> Constantine, just like his predecessors was devoted to Sol Invictus.
Ok, I also know this and also the following affirmation is agreable,
Perhaps we could discuss about whom he wanted to convert to what
if the pagans to christianism or the christians to the solar cult, but in
reality
the result were in favour only of christianism.
> It seems that he tried to reconciliate pagans and christians by claiming
> that Sol Invictus and Christ were the same. During his reign christian
> iconography was influenced by the solar cult, and Christ was indeed
> regarded as Sol.
> This is also the time when Sunday (Dies Solis=Day of the Sun) became
> the weekly day of Christ (until then Saturday was celebrated instead of
> Sunday) and the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birthday of Sol Invictus)
became
> regarded as Christmas (until then, the christians celebrated the 6th
> January, the Epiphany).

Constantine tried to reconciliate the one with the others, OK, we perfectly
agree, that's normal policy for an imperial ruler of subjects of different
beliefs, Ok,
and christian iconography was influenced, too, ok again.
> Constantine kept the pagan traditions and the very inauguration of
> Constantinople was pagan in form.
Ok again, dear Gryllus, but what does it mean ? I fear not so much.
A lot of things in Christianism are PAGAN IN FORM and even roman pagan and
have some roman names, neverthless Christianism is the most important
monotheistic religion, and is not politheistic at all, trinity , saints and
some pagan rites notwithstanding and is intolerant of other gods and so it
displaced politheism.
And all this was very much the effect of Constantine's decisions, no doubts
about it from christian scholars or anti christians

(personally I would say even that Christian dominance is the product of
Constantine even more than the result of Christ's and St. Pauls preachings,
but let us not consider this very personal opinion, and remain to the main
point).

> As to the chi-rho symbol (XP) of the tatoo,
> it seems it was not used in roman shields until a later date after
> Constantine's death.

> It also seems that the conversion of Constantine took place only during is
> agony.

Yes, I also know that, I agree You are right, but the reason was not that
he was not so much convinced of Christianism to adhere to it before, but
just that being a criminal and an assassin (or if you prefer just a sinner
like everybody ) he wanted to profit LATER (as late as possible to keep
committing crimes) of the christian promise of canceling all sins done
before baptism.

During his life he had already:
a) legalized Christianism
b) presieded the council of Nicea (Yes, very strange for a non baptized
sinner)
b1) directed the council of Nicea towards the conclusion he choosed and
preferred which means against gnostics and against tolerance, against
heretics and free thinking
b2) he was so the father of christian intolerance against everybodyelse,
and in my interpretation (and not only mine, of course) he transformed
christianism from just one other cult of one other god in a cult devoted to
the sacred goal of deleting all other gods and cults, beginning with copying
rites (and ending with inquisition, later).
-- So in the end all other cults and gods were finally declared illegal .
c) given civil power to christian officers all over the empire,
creating so the mixture between statal power and religion that still
plagues catholic countries, at least Italy with some pretensions even now.

Dear Gryllus, this is what I know, but you are much deeper than me in the
knowledge of the religio romana antiqua, and a pontifex too, so perhaps you
know something I am missing ??? What are your sources ?
But still our opinion about Constantine
(also a Saint together with wife Helena of the ortodox church)
seems to be so far away from mine and from that of many pagans, atheists
and lay men and even of christians jelous of the separation between state
and church !
We do admire Julian the tolerant philosopher emperor, the last pagan
emperor, and loathe Constantine the first christian emperor, even if in his
youth he adored sol invictus.

With utmost respect
> Valete
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NR Practical Latin 5: Pronunciation I
From:	"M G" <fresco@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:18:29 +0300

----- Original Message -----
From: M. Apollonius Formosanus <bvm3@-------->
To: novaroma <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, 11 August, 2000 8:45 AM
Subject: [novaroma] NR Practical Latin 5: Pronunciation I

> In Romanian a final -US is pronounced -USH
> for example.

Dear M. Formosanus,
I happen to speak romanian, and in romanian do exist 2 types of S, the
simple S which exists in most other languages written with Latin alphabet,
and one more letter, existing ONLY in romanian alphabet among the latin ones
(but which has a correspondent letter existing in cyrillic, from which it
was taken when the Romanians switched from cyrillic alphabet to the latin
one ).
The second special s is distingued by a very small comma placed under the S.
It is a cedilla, like the cedilla the french place under the C in words like
macon ( pron mason).
So in Romanian we have
1) plain S which sounds like english S (never like SH)
AND we have
2) special S with cedilla
which is the only one which sounds like the english SH

Hope it helps.

Best regards and compliments wor you work.

Marcus Prometheus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re:
From:	marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:46:11 -0000

I think I agree with Pontius actually. The site was very scrappy,
only giving details that are known in many places. I think we need
to interest kids by showing them the interesting parts of history,
but we can put in more than that! I think a kid's page is excellent,
but not organised in time periods, as I think this would put children
off. I don't know how I can help, Pontius, but I'd love to if I can.

Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] The coastal conquest
From:	"j.mason4" <j.mason4@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:29:07 +0100

MARIA TERRAEQUE DEO PARENT
( Land and sea obey God )

IPS HORA CIRCITER QUARTER DIEI CUM PRIMIS NAVIBUS BRITANNIAM ATTIGIT.
( he himself reached Britain with the first ships around ten o`clock in the morning. )

While the Roman soldiers were hesitating to leave the ships, chiefly deterred, according to Caesar's account, by the depth of the water. An officer having first solemnly besought the gods.That what he was about to do might prove fortunate for the legion, and then exclaiming, with a loud voice,
"FOLLOW ME, FELLOW SOLDIERS, UNLESS YOU WILL GIVE UP
YOUR EAGLE TO THE ENEMY !-----------I AT LEAST WILL DO MY
DUTY TO THE REPUBLIC AND TO OUR GENERAL ! "
Leaped into the sea as he spoke, and dashed with his ensign among the enemies ranks.The men instantly followed their leader; and the soldiers in the other ships became excited by the example and followed suit.

~~S~~

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