Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Pleased to announce
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:53:07 EDT

Salve Lucius Equitius,

Congratulations and blessing to all involved!

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.


On 8/19/00 10:58 AM Lucius (vergil@--------) wrote:

>Salvete,
>
> I am pleased to announce that Lolita Peraltia, wife of Marcus
>Equitius Lentulus has given birth by Caesarian to a boy 8 lb. 7 oz. The
>baby is well (as I heard his hearty cries myself) and Lolita is doing well
>too, but will remain in the hospital for a couple of days. She will then
>spend a week or two with her sister-in-law in convalescence (this is a
>very great help to the mother as my wife stayed with her mother after the
>birth of our kids)
> He is John Albert Herman Graef for both his grandfathers (we'll
>figure out a proper Roman name later ;-)
>
>Thanks to the Gods everything turned out well.
>
>Valete, Lucius Equitius


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:29:48 -0000

> My point was mainly, that we must realise that the United States
Government
> is very opinionated and we must keep them in mind in every decsion
we make.
> Until, of course, the day when we are able to overcome all outside
forces
> politically. I think we ought to have a name for this time. A
goal to
> which we should strive in the real world.
>
> The goal would not simply be to overcome the political power of the
United
> States Government, it would be to overcome all opposing political
powers. A
> time when we could, like Old Rome, make our own laws, live by our
own laws,
> collect our own taxes for civic improovement, and not have to pay
tribute
> (taxes) to ANY other nation.
>
> I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple..
Any
> thoughts?
> C. Pontius


Ave,

Call me concerned...but I am with this post. I do not believe we are
doing anything contrary to our "host" countries. I am equally proud
to be an American Citizen just as I am proud to be a Nova Roman
Citizen. I think that this line of thinking as illustrated above,
gives the wrong perception of what we are trying to do. I view the
micronational effort in Nova Roma as a long term objective. Not
something that will happen overnite...let alone 5 or 10 years. This
type of post, as I understand it....and as some citizens might
understand it, is almost trying to provoke distrust or even a
revolutionary stand that I think is totally improper. I hope that
this is not the case and that I have misunderstood. Becuase, I will
not renounce the benefits of my citizenship in the United States. I
think that we have more important aspects to develop in NR currently,
such as the Religio and our Sodalias.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor et Proconsul of California


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Subject:	[novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	Marius Fimbria <aurelianus@-------->
Date:	Date header was inserted by mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net

Salvete omnes!

I am pleased to announce that I, Lucius Marius Fimbria, have reapplied
for Nova Roman Citizenship. (I actually did this about a week ago, and
was hoping to be able to surprise everyone with news of my
repatriation; but between one Censor awaiting Paterfamilial consent
from the other, and the other Censor being busy welcoming the newest
natural-born Nova Roman Citizen to grace his own family [Magna te
gratulo, Pater Merulle!!], that kinda hasn't happened yet.) >({|;-)

I have reason to hope that my petition will be seen to very shortly,
and that my reintegration into Nova Roman society will take place as
smoothly as possible. I have seen for myself how much joy and pride
Censor Sulla in particular takes in processing the Citizenship apps,
and his request for Paterfamilial consent was quite
professionally-stated; so I am certain that he is capable of handling
my request just like any of the others, should it fall to him to do so,
without regards to person or to any of the recent (and, as far as I
know, forgiven) tensions between us. Of Marius Merullus' objectivity
and integrity there has never been any reason to doubt.

Should anyone be interested in the particulars of my application (under
what name and so on), feel free to contact me in private; for almost
all intents and purposes I shall be Lucius Marius Fimbria in fact,
however I be listed on the rolls, until circumstance permit me to
achieve full consistency between the two.

I look forward to this opportunity to make a new beginning here; and
should any of my past actions, in politics or in jest, have caused
anyone harm in this community of common interest and uncommon spirits,
I ask forgiveness of said persons, and extend it myself where it be
most needed.

In amicitia et fides,
***********************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
Civis quondam civisque futurus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	Megas-Robinson <amgunn@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:11:26 -0500

Avete Omnes,

Marius Fimbria wrote:
>
> Damn good news!!!

Welcome home my friend.

In Amicus sub Fidelis - Venator

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Subject:	[novaroma] janus
From:	"j.mason4" <j.mason4@-------->
Date:	Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:14:10 +0100

Salve,


As so many citizens of Roma are experiencing either a new beginning, a new birth or new enterprise, I have commissioned some new relief panels.They will portray Janus and Fortuna, I extend a welcome hand to anyone who wishes to pay homage to said deities.
The new relief's will be presented in the Templum meus animus.

~~Structor~~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	Tom Nicolas <fixt@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 04:29:34 -0700

Dear Lucius Marius,

My name is Lucius Cornelius Quirinus. I talked to you briefly once
in the chat room.
I am new to Nova Roma, and still finding my way around. To be honest I
was not aware that you were no longer a citizen. One of the first
people I met and talked to at length was Piscinus. He had mentioned
your name to me, and had many fine things to say about yourself, and
your actions as a citizen of Nova Roma. Also, while reading through
the archives, I came upon letters from your fellow citizens praising
you, and your struggles against the barbarian role playing gamers...lol...
I don't know all the particulars of course, but I guess there was
some kind of question about what your proper Roman name should be; I
personally don't know why that should be. From what I have been told
of you from your fellow Romans, and what I have read of you in the
archives, you have done yourself proud, and from my point of view, you
have dignitas of the kind that the ancient Romans valued the most.
As for your reinstatment into the citizen body, it brings to mind a
line from the messages the Athenians sent to the Lacademonians, (
taking liberties of course)
'Lucius Marius has returned, and Nova Roma has been the poorer for the
loss of a citizen of renown.'
Welcome back Lucius Marius, and may Fortuna smile upon you.



Sincerely,


Lucius Cornelius Quirinus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Welcome back
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:33:35 +0200

Salve Fimbria,

Welcome back to Nova Roma. May you find peace and comfort here within the
city walls.

Valeas,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae,
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
--**--
"There is no knowledge that is not power"
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
--**--

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Subject:	[novaroma] drifting spirit
From:	"j.mason4" <j.mason4@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:56:53 +0100

Salve,

When I entered the sacred city I was given one guiding line of text, that being " anything Roma". Am I expected to apply for citizenship and a paterfamilias, are there any etiquette guidelines that I should be aware of.?
Or is it acceptable to carry on in my present capacity, please feel free to instruct me in your mores and traditions. I can be reached off list if you wish.

j.mason@-------- ~~Structor~~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Return of the Wanderer
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:34:59 -0000

Salvus sis optime amice!!
What a good news my friend!. I'm very glad to know that. Because you
are my friend since I met you at the chat room.
Bonam fortunam tecum et cura ut valeas.
L. Pompeius Octavianus

.--- In novaroma@--------, Marius Fimbria <aurelianus@s...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> I am pleased to announce that I, Lucius Marius Fimbria, have
reapplied
> for Nova Roman Citizenship. (I actually did this about a week ago,
and
> was hoping to be able to surprise everyone with news of my
> repatriation; but between one Censor awaiting Paterfamilial consent
> from the other, and the other Censor being busy welcoming the
newest
> natural-born Nova Roman Citizen to grace his own family [Magna te
> gratulo, Pater Merulle!!], that kinda hasn't happened yet.) >({|;-
)
>
> I have reason to hope that my petition will be seen to very
shortly,
> and that my reintegration into Nova Roman society will take place
as
> smoothly as possible. I have seen for myself how much joy and
pride
> Censor Sulla in particular takes in processing the Citizenship
apps,
> and his request for Paterfamilial consent was quite
> professionally-stated; so I am certain that he is capable of
handling
> my request just like any of the others, should it fall to him to do
so,
> without regards to person or to any of the recent (and, as far as I
> know, forgiven) tensions between us. Of Marius Merullus'
objectivity
> and integrity there has never been any reason to doubt.
>
> Should anyone be interested in the particulars of my application
(under
> what name and so on), feel free to contact me in private; for
almost
> all intents and purposes I shall be Lucius Marius Fimbria in fact,
> however I be listed on the rolls, until circumstance permit me to
> achieve full consistency between the two.
>
> I look forward to this opportunity to make a new beginning here;
and
> should any of my past actions, in politics or in jest, have caused
> anyone harm in this community of common interest and uncommon
spirits,
> I ask forgiveness of said persons, and extend it myself where it be
> most needed.
>
> In amicitia et fides,
> ***********************************************************
> Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
> Civis quondam civisque futurus.


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	<gmvick32@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:47:36 -0600

Mari:

If you truly seek to make a clean start, please desist from making postings
such as this in the future. As I've stated before, I for one don't wish to
read about the process you are required to take to regain your citizenship.

I stand firm in the faith that both Censors act with the best interests of
Nova Roma in their hearts, and as good public magistrates. For all of us
regular cives (or applicants), that may sometimes mean we don't get the
outcome we desire. Or maybe we do.

May Fortuna smile on us all.

L. Cornelia Aurelia



Marius Fimbria wrote:

> Salvete omnes!
>
> I am pleased to announce that I, Lucius Marius Fimbria, have reapplied
> for Nova Roman Citizenship. (I actually did this about a week ago, and
> was hoping to be able to surprise everyone with news of my
> repatriation; but between one Censor awaiting Paterfamilial consent
> from the other, and the other Censor being busy welcoming the newest
> natural-born Nova Roman Citizen to grace his own family [Magna te
> gratulo, Pater Merulle!!], that kinda hasn't happened yet.) >({|;-)
>
> I have reason to hope that my petition will be seen to very shortly,
> and that my reintegration into Nova Roman society will take place as
> smoothly as possible. I have seen for myself how much joy and pride
> Censor Sulla in particular takes in processing the Citizenship apps,
> and his request for Paterfamilial consent was quite
> professionally-stated; so I am certain that he is capable of handling
> my request just like any of the others, should it fall to him to do so,
> without regards to person or to any of the recent (and, as far as I
> know, forgiven) tensions between us. Of Marius Merullus' objectivity
> and integrity there has never been any reason to doubt.
>
> Should anyone be interested in the particulars of my application (under
> what name and so on), feel free to contact me in private; for almost
> all intents and purposes I shall be Lucius Marius Fimbria in fact,
> however I be listed on the rolls, until circumstance permit me to
> achieve full consistency between the two.
>
> I look forward to this opportunity to make a new beginning here; and
> should any of my past actions, in politics or in jest, have caused
> anyone harm in this community of common interest and uncommon spirits,
> I ask forgiveness of said persons, and extend it myself where it be
> most needed.
>
> In amicitia et fides,
> ***********************************************************
> Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
> Civis quondam civisque futurus.
>
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	DrususCornelius@--------
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:40:18 EDT

Hail Romans and Marius!

Marius, Marius, Marius, you're back (Though it almost seems as if you
were never gone)! I'm sure the majority of active citizens who keep track of
the goings-on here are happy at your return... both because Nova Roma needs
citizens like you, and because it closes a rather annoying chapter in our
history. Nova Roma, be glad, a friend has returned.

I will step off of my vastly over used soap box now, thanks for your time...

For the Senate and the Roman People, Valete!
Drusus Cornelius Claudius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Return of the Wanderer
From:	"Stephen Phenow" <q_fabius_max@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:50:25 PDT

>From Q. Fabius Maximus To L. Marius Fimbria,
This sent to the open forum because it was my hope that we start anew with
the person of L. Marius. Alas, it would seem Marius, that you begin where
you left off, taking to task the magistrates of Rome in public. Therefore
as senior consul I must raise to defend them also in public.
Do you really think that our censors are moved by your threats? Why, by the
gods do you even do this? You will be admitted as a citizen when the
requirements are completed, not one minute more, nor less then any other
prospective citizen. Your implied slur on the Censor Lucius Cornelius
implying favoritism, robs you of all dignatis and reduces you to the cunning
manipulations of a non Roman. Do you think now, by stating such, the People
of Rome, will assume there is some conspiracy to keep you out of Nova Roma?
That they will raise a public outcry, to speed your application?
I had hoped this time around, that you will show more moderation in your
antics and less of a bull in a lamp shop mentality. It appears that I was
wrong.
A laconic statement of your return would have been very Roman.
But the actual fact is that you have never really "left" Nova Roma, other
then to abandon your public offices in her time of need.
So your rejoining us need not really be in haste.
Vale!
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


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Subject:	[novaroma] Cives ex Provincia Magni Lacus!
From:	"Piparskegg - Venator" <amgunn@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:14:08 -0000

Avete Omnes,

Piparbarbus Ullerius Venator hic:

I am the moderator for the eGroups list which was created
specifically for Citizens living within the Great Lakes Province.
This responsibility was given to me by the previous moderator without
notice while I was gone on holiday last month, which has turned out
OK. I've cleared the decks of some other business, so I'm turning a
bit more attention this way.

I should like to ask the Cives of this Province to subscribe to
yet another list. Please, visit the list at:
http://www.egroups.com/group/GreatLakesNovaRomasite

I shall be contacting individual Cives directly, or through
their Pater or Mater Familias, starting on XXVIII Sextilius (28
August) about this plea. I shall be using the contact information I
was able to glean from the Nova Roma site. One of the Cives who is
subscribed has prompted me to begin this task, and has graciously
offered assistance.

Out of 50 citizens upon the rolls of the Album Civium listed as
residing in this Province, 4 are subscribed to the Great Lakes list.
Plus, for 9 Cives within the Province, I have no cantact info, so
I'll send a missive to the Censors and ask them to contact these
Cives for me.

The main thrust of this missive is to guage interest in the
Province for Citizen interaction, including Provincial get togethers
with other Cives in your area.

Please, if you are intereted in the future of Nova Roma, we do
need to start forging face to face bonds of (if not friendship)
acquaintence. Or, are we content to let this organization remain in
the realm of Cyber-Reality?

I know that, as a Germano-Nordic Heathen, I shouldn't care what
happens to a bunch of Romans. But, I like most everyone I've met
herein. I have Community in real life with other Heathens. I'd like
to see that same reality for Romans on a broader scale than
heretofore.

quant. suff.

In Amicus - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, Cives et Pręses

===========================================
In Frith under Troth, may the Gods see you!
- Piparskegg UllRson, a Tribalist Asatruar and traveler to many
Heathen & Pagan places.
My homestead: http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
The Nova Roma Brewing and Cooking group:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Return of the Wanderer
From:	"Little Dragon" <fionaerin@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:50:39 -0000

---Ave MARI!!!!!!


*Many Huggles* It's awesome that you are trying to come back!!!
Woohoo!! That was the best news I've heard all day, welcome back
my friend you've been missed.



Valete
Aeternia












In novaroma@--------, Marius Fimbria <aurelianus@s...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> I am pleased to announce that I, Lucius Marius Fimbria, have
reapplied
> for Nova Roman Citizenship. (I actually did this about a week ago,
and
> was hoping to be able to surprise everyone with news of my
> repatriation; but between one Censor awaiting Paterfamilial consent
> from the other, and the other Censor being busy welcoming the
newest
> natural-born Nova Roman Citizen to grace his own family [Magna te
> gratulo, Pater Merulle!!], that kinda hasn't happened yet.) >({|;-
)
>
> I have reason to hope that my petition will be seen to very
shortly,
> and that my reintegration into Nova Roman society will take place
as
> smoothly as possible. I have seen for myself how much joy and
pride
> Censor Sulla in particular takes in processing the Citizenship
apps,
> and his request for Paterfamilial consent was quite
> professionally-stated; so I am certain that he is capable of
handling
> my request just like any of the others, should it fall to him to do
so,
> without regards to person or to any of the recent (and, as far as I
> know, forgiven) tensions between us. Of Marius Merullus'
objectivity
> and integrity there has never been any reason to doubt.
>
> Should anyone be interested in the particulars of my application
(under
> what name and so on), feel free to contact me in private; for
almost
> all intents and purposes I shall be Lucius Marius Fimbria in fact,
> however I be listed on the rolls, until circumstance permit me to
> achieve full consistency between the two.
>
> I look forward to this opportunity to make a new beginning here;
and
> should any of my past actions, in politics or in jest, have caused
> anyone harm in this community of common interest and uncommon
spirits,
> I ask forgiveness of said persons, and extend it myself where it be
> most needed.
>
> In amicitia et fides,
> ***********************************************************
> Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
> Civis quondam civisque futurus.


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Virgin birth of a Caesar ?
From:	Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:58:09 -0600

Supposedly Julius Caesar (and even Alexander the Great) were the products
of virgin births ... such claims are regularly tossed about on the web on
sites which are skeptical of Jesus' virgin birth and/or Christianity in
general. I have yet to find a source for such claims and no one ever seems
to cite one. Being charitable, it might be said (from comparison with other
'people' included in the standard list, including Dionysus (!)), it would
appear that some folks confuse "virgin birth" with "being impregnated by a
god", but that's about as close as I can come on this one ...

mpj



At Saturday 8/19/00 07:50 PM +0300, you wrote:
> Marcus Prometheus civibus omnibus SPM dicit
>
>Somebody told me that to a Roman Emperor ( a Caesar)
>was attributed the same virgin birth that Christians attribute to
>Jesus, Buddhist to Buddha and Indus to Krisna.
>I asked which emperor, and more detalis, but I didn't receive any.
>
>I am not convinced at all and I never heard something like that before.
>Somebody knows more ? If so , please help.
>
>Thanking you in advance.
>
>VALETE
>
>Marcus Prometheus.
>
>
>
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] A Question
From:	"Little Dragon" <fionaerin@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:53:11 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

Due to things going on at home, and my own curiousity. I was
wondering what was the actual divorce rate in Ancient Rome? Also
was it a popular thing too do back then? Any input on this question
would be greatly appreciated, thank you.



Valete
Aeternia



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A Question
From:	Tom Nicolas <fixt@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:58:50 -0700

Ave Aeternia,

The divorce rate in ancient Rome: It depends on which period you
look at, from the early to middle republic it was unheard of,
marriages by patricians particularly were performed inconferratio (i
KNOW i didn't spell that right!) i used to know the date more exactly
but it was in the mid third century bc or so that the first divorce was
recorded in rome. By the time of the fall of the republic it was very
common, and in the empire the divorce rate was as high as our modern
society, if not more so.
I know you were probably looking for a more specific answer, but I
was no where near my books. (i'm gonna look it up though).

Sincerely,


Lucius Cornelius Quirinus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A Question
From:	"Gaius Metellus Valentinus" <websurfer07@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:29:51 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Tom Nicolas <fixt@p...> wrote:
> Ave Aeternia,
>
> The divorce rate in ancient Rome: It depends on which period
you
> look at, from the early to middle republic it was unheard of,
> marriages by patricians particularly were performed inconferratio (i
> KNOW i didn't spell that right!) i used to know the date more
exactly
> but it was in the mid third century bc or so that the first divorce
was
> recorded in rome. By the time of the fall of the republic it was
very
> common, and in the empire the divorce rate was as high as our modern
> society, if not more so.
> I know you were probably looking for a more specific answer,
but I
> was no where near my books. (i'm gonna look it up though).
>
>
Sincerely,
>
>
> Lucius Cornelius Quirinus


Salve,


Some good references on this subject are the following
books, "Love In Ancient Rome" by Pierre Grimal, and "History of
Private Life: Pagan Rome to Byzantium" ed. Paul Veyne. A lot of
interesting information on many personal aspects of Roman life,
including marriage and divorce, and how divorce took place.
Interesting reads.

Ave, G. Metellus Valentinus


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Subject:	[novaroma] Divorce in ancient Rome
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:13:39 -0000

Patricia Cassia Aeternia SPD,

I did some research in this area as part of the work we did in
preparing a Roman wedding. The previously mentioned "confarreatio"
marriage was supposedly indissoluble, and while mention is made of a
"diffareatio" (a religious rite to undo such a marriage), there is no
evidence that it was ever performed. This form of marriage required
the
presence of the Pontifex Maximus and was only performed among the
patrician priestly classes of Rome proper.

For most people, divorce was easy - as simple as telling your partner
"Take your things and go." The father was presumed to retain custody
of
his children. The hard part (as it is today) was splitting up the
property. The husband was supposed to return the wife's dowry to her
paterfamilias, but she was not otherwise entitled to marital property.

We don't have enough evidence to even guess at the true divorce rate
in
Roman society at various times, but we do know that by the time of
Caesar, it was fairly common among the upper classes. Reasons for
divorce could include a wife's unfaithfulness (Caesar, as you may
recall, divorced his wife because there had been the *appearance* of
impropriety with Clodius). Men's philandering was largely forgiven,
though illegitimate children had lower status than legitimate ones.

A rich wife might have the economic power to keep her husband on a
tighter leash, and a couple of male writers warn men against marrying
rich women for this reason.

A woman who was divorced returned to the home of her paterfamilias
(father, brother, uncle) and could marry again.

It was legally possible to divorce (or to marry, for that matter) for
frivolous reasons, but various sources indicate that this was frowned
upon.

A book I found very useful was Susan Treggiari's "Roman Marriage."
It's
probably too expensive to buy, but you can obtain a copy through your
local college library.

Patricia Cassia



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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital
From:	"c.p." <c_pontius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:18:46 -0700

My appologies if we have no intention of looking to the day when we will be
a nation onto ourselves.

Here is the first sentance of our constitution, which i hope you've read:

"We, the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and sovereign
nation, herewith set forth this Constitution as the foundation and structure
of our governing institutions and common society."

I did not mean for my emphasis on peace to lead you to think that I think we
ought to follow the revolutionary path.

Infact i simply want to state that we ought to look forward to and move
towards establishing ourselves as a power. This road is, as you say, a long
one and many of us may never see the outcome. I cannot speak for others in
Nova Roma, but i do want a Roman Nation. I would give up my US citizenship
if Nova Roma could provide what I need in a nation. However, again.. I do
not think this is the time to be thinking of these things.

As you say the time is best to promote education of the Roman Republic. To
take in members and to do what we can to educate all that are willing.
However, I still think we should look to ataining power.

Ideas? thoughts?

C. Pontius



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Woolwine [mailto:alexious@--------]
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 8:30 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital




> My point was mainly, that we must realise that the United States
Government
> is very opinionated and we must keep them in mind in every decsion
we make.
> Until, of course, the day when we are able to overcome all outside
forces
> politically. I think we ought to have a name for this time. A
goal to
> which we should strive in the real world.
>
> The goal would not simply be to overcome the political power of the
United
> States Government, it would be to overcome all opposing political
powers. A
> time when we could, like Old Rome, make our own laws, live by our
own laws,
> collect our own taxes for civic improovement, and not have to pay
tribute
> (taxes) to ANY other nation.
>
> I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple..
Any
> thoughts?
> C. Pontius


Ave,

Call me concerned...but I am with this post. I do not believe we are
doing anything contrary to our "host" countries. I am equally proud
to be an American Citizen just as I am proud to be a Nova Roman
Citizen. I think that this line of thinking as illustrated above,
gives the wrong perception of what we are trying to do. I view the
micronational effort in Nova Roma as a long term objective. Not
something that will happen overnite...let alone 5 or 10 years. This
type of post, as I understand it....and as some citizens might
understand it, is almost trying to provoke distrust or even a
revolutionary stand that I think is totally improper. I hope that
this is not the case and that I have misunderstood. Becuase, I will
not renounce the benefits of my citizenship in the United States. I
think that we have more important aspects to develop in NR currently,
such as the Religio and our Sodalias.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor et Proconsul of California


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: A Question
From:	Tom Nicolas <fixt@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:15:43 -0700

Ave Gauis Metellus,

Thanks for the e-mail, i'll try to find those books. Here's
another
"Daily Life in Ancient Rome" written by Jerome Carcopino.
It deals with life at the height of the empire. Carcopino was an
archaeologist, and brings an archaeologist's slant on several subjects
on the daily life in ancient rome, in a very readable, page turning style.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:34:46 -0700

Ave,

My response will be listed below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "c.p." <c_pontius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital


> My appologies if we have no intention of looking to the day when we will
be
> a nation onto ourselves.

I understand that, and I consider a micronation, still a nation. :) Just a
landless nation currently.

> Here is the first sentance of our constitution, which i hope you've read:
>
> "We, the Senate and People of Nova Roma, as an independent and sovereign
> nation, herewith set forth this Constitution as the foundation and
structure
> of our governing institutions and common society."

I dont think you need to lecture, me of all citizens on what the
Constitution states. As a senior magistrate of Nova Roma who has served
every political office within this great micronation, and even contributed
opinions in the revising of the Constitution in which you site. My
experience in the laws and regulations of Nova Roma are substantial. Let me
also state, to you that Nova Roma has a dual soverignty recognition of
citzenship. First off let me reference to you our Articles of
Incorporation, as published in the State of New Hampshire, which show that
we are under the laws of the United States in terms of fiscal reporting.
This is also stated in Article 1 Section C of the Nova Roma Constitution,
let me quote for you,

This Constitution shall serve as the bylaws for Nova Roma, a legally
incorporated entity in the state of New Hampshire, USA (hereafter referred
to as "the corporation"). The conduct and procedures of the Board of
Directors and the officers of the corporation shall be according to the
guidelines and strictures set forth in this Constitution. The Board of
Directors of the corporation shall be composed of the Senate of Nova Roma
(as described in Section V of this Constitution), and the officers of the
corporation shall be composed of the magistrates of Nova Roma (as described
in Section IV of this Constitution), as follows:
The co-presidents of the corporation shall be the consuls of Nova Roma;
The co-vice-presidents of the corporation shall be the praetors of Nova
Roma;
The co-treasurers of the corporation shall be the quaestors of Nova Roma;
The co-secretaries of the corporation shall be the censors of Nova Roma.

Also, if that is not enough for you, let me further quote, from Article 2,
section B, subsection 2,

The right and obligation to remain subject to the civil rights and laws of
the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship, regardless of
their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma;

Therefore, our countries of residence have a primacy over Nova Roma law, and
the very last thing we will want to do is to jeopardize that sense of trust
and security with our macronational "host" countries.

> I did not mean for my emphasis on peace to lead you to think that I think
we
> ought to follow the revolutionary path.
>
> Infact i simply want to state that we ought to look forward to and move
> towards establishing ourselves as a power. This road is, as you say, a
long
> one and many of us may never see the outcome. I cannot speak for others
in
> Nova Roma, but i do want a Roman Nation. I would give up my US
citizenship
> if Nova Roma could provide what I need in a nation. However, again.. I do
> not think this is the time to be thinking of these things.

Sulla: I think that we must still lay a proper foundation in the present
before we look forward to what if. We all want a Nova Roma nation, but we
want it on solid foundations with respect to not just each other, as
citizens, but to other macronations which sometime in the future we will
have relationships with. The sense of jealousy you spoke of earlier is not
the proper way to go about doing this. IMHO.

> As you say the time is best to promote education of the Roman Republic.
To
> take in members and to do what we can to educate all that are willing.
> However, I still think we should look to ataining power.

We should focus on education, we should focus on reviving the Religio, we
should focus on developing our own internal loyalty to Nova Roma. WE must
develop a sense of unity, we should revive the Roman Virtues. Lets focus on
the things we can currently improve and make a difference in this modern
world, and not strive for something that can potential brand us as a
successionist group or some militia!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor et Proconsul

> Ideas? thoughts?
>
> C. Pontius
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Woolwine [mailto:alexious@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 8:30 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma capital
>
>
>
>
> > My point was mainly, that we must realise that the United States
> Government
> > is very opinionated and we must keep them in mind in every decsion
> we make.
> > Until, of course, the day when we are able to overcome all outside
> forces
> > politically. I think we ought to have a name for this time. A
> goal to
> > which we should strive in the real world.
> >
> > The goal would not simply be to overcome the political power of the
> United
> > States Government, it would be to overcome all opposing political
> powers. A
> > time when we could, like Old Rome, make our own laws, live by our
> own laws,
> > collect our own taxes for civic improovement, and not have to pay
> tribute
> > (taxes) to ANY other nation.
> >
> > I am inclined to call it "the beginning" but that seems to simple..
> Any
> > thoughts?
> > C. Pontius
>
>
> Ave,
>
> Call me concerned...but I am with this post. I do not believe we are
> doing anything contrary to our "host" countries. I am equally proud
> to be an American Citizen just as I am proud to be a Nova Roman
> Citizen. I think that this line of thinking as illustrated above,
> gives the wrong perception of what we are trying to do. I view the
> micronational effort in Nova Roma as a long term objective. Not
> something that will happen overnite...let alone 5 or 10 years. This
> type of post, as I understand it....and as some citizens might
> understand it, is almost trying to provoke distrust or even a
> revolutionary stand that I think is totally improper. I hope that
> this is not the case and that I have misunderstood. Becuase, I will
> not renounce the benefits of my citizenship in the United States. I
> think that we have more important aspects to develop in NR currently,
> such as the Religio and our Sodalias.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor et Proconsul of California
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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