| Subject: |
[novaroma] from the royal office of the holy toad |
| From: |
"william wheeler" <holyconelia@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:07:56 -0000 |
|
Salve
Marcus Cornelius Felix sends greeting to the list
I am somewhat back on line. no ISP acct yet so am logging in from a
friends acct.just wanted to say hi
vale
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967248483/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] from the royal office of the holy toad |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:01:14 -0700 |
|
AVE Marcus Cornelius Felix!!!!! :)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Pater
william wheeler wrote:
> Salve
> Marcus Cornelius Felix sends greeting to the list
> I am somewhat back on line. no ISP acct yet so am logging in from a
> friends acct.just wanted to say hi
> vale
>
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
How does this life work?
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8671/8/_/61050/_/967248812/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] I am Backl |
| From: |
"william wheeler" <holyconelia@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:19:33 -0000 |
|
I am back onlist same old ICQ # 10467379
Vale
marcus CORNELIS felix
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967249177/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Lucilla Cornelia |
| From: |
Lykaion1@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:47:06 EDT |
|
I too wish Lucilla a complete and speedy recovery.
In a sense, this is almost a relief. Several of us had grown quite concerned
that Lucilla was no longer interested or desirous to associate with us in NR.
I confess to be kind of relieved that her absence is involuntary than
deliberate!
GLF
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
How does this life work?
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8671/8/_/61050/_/967258033/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Great Lakes Citizens!!! |
| From: |
"Piparskegg - Venator" <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:27:41 -0000 |
|
Hello all,
Steven "Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator" Robinson here:
Right now I have *-4-* Nova Romans who reside in the Great Lakes
Province enrolled upon the eGroups list, plus two interested
non-Cives. 1 Patrician subscribed out of 13 listed and 3 Plebians out
of 37, an overall 8% subscription rate. The Main NR e-list has 237
subscribers out of 528 Citizens, a 45% subscription rate (albeit,
with
perhaps 20% to 25% of the subscribers contributing on a regular
basis). This would lead one to think that the Great Lakes list would
have 22 or 23 subscribers, 4 to 6 of them regulars.
This is a final plea before I start going to individual, private
e-mail from the information available in the albums of citizens and
families on the main Nova Roma site, starting on Tuesday the 29th Day
of August 2000 CE.
Maters and Paters - do you or any members of your Gentes live in
Wisconsin, Illinois, Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Michigan or
Indiana??? Please, make contact: either subscre to the eGroups
Province list at: http://www.egroups.com/group/GreatLakesNovaRoma
or e-mail me at amgunn@-------- You can subscribe at "Read On Web
Only" status and modify your profile for privacy.
If we want this experiment in creating a new nation to succeed, we
need to grow beyond this cyber world into face to face contact.
Thank you for the read.
Steven/Venator
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Evolution is not necessarily collective...
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8670/8/_/61050/_/967260468/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] My wishes to Lucilla |
| From: |
"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:33:01 -0000 |
|
I would like to add my wishes for Lucilla 's recovery. Hope she'll be
healthy again soon. Kisses for her.
L. Pompeius Octavianus
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967264389/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Druids |
| From: |
"j.mason4" <j.mason4@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:26:42 +0100 |
|
Salve,
The Druids although noted as a barbarous people were also the enforcers of the laws in ancient Briton, and it is also noted that they only inflicted their penalties on law breakers and enemies.
Sacrifice was an intricate part of ancient belief, who am I to stand as judge, they gave some order to the peoples here in.
I just feel that it was time for a change to be implemented and who better than the advanced culture of the Romans to take on the role as law giver.
Benevolentia
~~S~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967267898/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans |
| From: |
"David Wolfman" <dwolfman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:58:01 GMT |
|
I would like to name a few notables who have yet been mentioned and make a
small disclaimer on a few already mentioned.
Marcus Gavius Apicius=
professional chef and author of the world's first cookbook.
Marcus Porcius Cato=
an outspoken Repulican of his day, politician and soldier.
Emperor Claudius=
who was a historian, and a Republican despite it all.
Galen=
physician to gladiators and then to Marcus Aerlius, Commodus, and Septimius
Severus. He wrote the definative works on medicine that were used by Muslims
and Christians alike until the Renniasance.
Flavius Josephus=
risked his life to fight against the Romans but realized the might of Rome
was too great and became Roman. He wrote of the plight of the Jews from both
sides of the war and urged peace and religious tolerance.
Cladius Ptolemaeus=
astronomer and mathematician as well as a leading mapmaker of his day.
Now a note on "amoral" Romans.
I would like it be known that though unfortunate, Machiviallian methods were
used by Caesar and others because that was the only option avaible to them
at that period in history. Moses lead his people to Israel by slaughtering
the Cannanites. History is never one-sided. In Alexander the Great's
campaign one city-state Tyre stood its ground against his forces, and as an
example he crusified every man, woman, and child left after the siege. Yes,
Sulla, Marius, and Caesar as generals butchered but force was the only
option these men had. These men also changed Rome for the greater good and
paid for it with their lives. To judge these men by their actions you must
take into account the sum total of action as well as the times they lived in
and to judge them by the standards and morals of their day.
Caesar decimated the Gauls, but the Gauls destoryed the Roman armies and
parts of the city before Caesar ever step foot in France. The Romans were
retaliating. It was a matter of ROman pride that the Gauls had to be put to
the sword and be subjects of Rome, their leaders brought in chains. But the
Romans did not destory the Gauls, they were assimiled as many others had
before and would later on. What anyone failed to mention that Caesar did
that was anti-Roman was to march his troops into the city, and that was a
major reason he was assinated. It is also hypocritical to look down upon
this man's faults while praising Scipio Africanus. Scipio disobeyed orders
to fight Hannibal at Zama. He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed
the streets with salt slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or
overlooked. Today a general in his right mind would not even think of taking
such action, but in the times of the Romans, up until the Renisoance it was
a common policy. Caesar, Scipio, and Dwight Eisenhower were generals. They
did not become leaders of men because they were moral, or kind hearted. In
war respect is earned in battle and unfortunately the truth in war, in any
war, civilians will die in larger numbers than anyone would care to admit.
My last note on notable Romans is a by the book, and by all accounts harsh
military govenor who once hel a post in Judea... Pontius Pilot who
unwittingly helped create a new religion by condemning a martyr.
Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
>From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Notable Romans
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:49:21 -0000
>
>I'm looking for ideas in connection with a project that would
>introduce
>a general audience to an overview of ancient Rome through the stories
>of individual Romans.
>
>Who, in your opinion, are the men and women of historical record who
>best represent the spirit of Rome, both for good and for ill? Why?
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Evolution is not necessarily collective...
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8670/8/_/61050/_/967269482/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Druids |
| From: |
"Gaius Metellus Valentinus" <websurfer07@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 06:17:30 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "j.mason4" <j.mason4@n...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> The Druids although noted as a barbarous people were also the
enforcers of the laws in ancient Briton, and it is also noted that
they only inflicted their penalties on law breakers and enemies.
> Sacrifice was an intricate part of ancient belief, who am I to
stand as judge, they gave some order to the peoples here in.
> I just feel that it was time for a change to be implemented and who
better than the advanced culture of the Romans to take on the role as
law giver.
>
> Benevolentia
> ~~S~~
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Salve,
It's true what you say, but let's not compare apples and
oranges. These two were very different cultures, with different
views on life etc.
The Romans became an urban culture with a literary tradition,
while the Celts (druids included) were for the most part (a large
portion of their history) nomadic with an oral tradition.
It's no surprise that they fought hard to oppose the Romans.
Can you imagine, in our modern times, a "super power" like, say
Russia suddenly deciding to invade one's country, drastically
changing one's way of life, and imposing a belief and form of
government so foreign to one's own? People would obviously defend
themselves with all might.
As much as I admire Rome and it's culture, I try not to fall
into this way of thinking where I view them as somekind of "saviours"
or "bringers of light." I see them more as bringers of change, and
founders of a large part of Western thought and culture (particularly
modern Latin culture in the west). Culture elitism should be
avoided, because it's usual founded on ignorance. Let's read the
Roman historians with a grain of salt
Just a thought.
- G. Metellus Valentinus
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967270656/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:32:28 EDT |
|
>From Q. Fabius Maximus to Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
Salve!
<< Scipio disobeyed orders to fight Hannibal at Zama.<<
Not true. What the Senate said, led by my kinsman, was that if he was to go
to Africa, he would only have limited resources from Rome. Remember, Barca
was still in Bruttii on Italian soil. Once Hannibal was recalled and Mago
killed, and there was no danger, the Senate faction that supported the
Cornelii swayed the rest into whole heartily pursuing the war to a finish
(202).
>> He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed the streets with salt
slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or overlooked.>>
Not P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Africanus. He died in 184.
You are thinking of P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Aemilianus. He was adopted
by the oldest son of Africanus, P. Cornelius Scipio (160)
Since he was from the Aemilian Gens, second son of L. Aemilius Pallus, his
cognomen was Aemilianus. After he divided Numidia among Masinissa's kin and
avoided a war he received the name Numantinus. In 147 he took over the Roman
army in Africa as Consul elected by a special vote since he was under age.
By 146, he captured the city of Carthage, and following Cato's lead destroyed
it. Because this he was awarded "Africanus." Historians call him either
Scipio Aemilianus or Africanus Minor.
Vale
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967271553/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus |
| From: |
"David Wolfman" <dwolfman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:08:30 GMT |
|
I must admit I had mismatched the Scipios on the point of the destruction of
Carthage. However, P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Maior went against the
policies of Fabius Cunctator and crossed to Africa. He gambled and won the
battle but he failed not only in killing or even capturing Hannibal.
Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
>From: sfp55@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus
>Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:32:28 EDT
>
>From Q. Fabius Maximus to Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
>
>Salve!
><< Scipio disobeyed orders to fight Hannibal at Zama.<<
>Not true. What the Senate said, led by my kinsman, was that if he was to
>go
>to Africa, he would only have limited resources from Rome. Remember, Barca
>was still in Bruttii on Italian soil. Once Hannibal was recalled and Mago
>killed, and there was no danger, the Senate faction that supported the
>Cornelii swayed the rest into whole heartily pursuing the war to a finish
>(202).
>
> >> He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed the streets with salt
>slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or overlooked.>>
>Not P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Africanus. He died in 184.
>You are thinking of P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Aemilianus. He was
>adopted
>by the oldest son of Africanus, P. Cornelius Scipio (160)
>Since he was from the Aemilian Gens, second son of L. Aemilius Pallus, his
>cognomen was Aemilianus. After he divided Numidia among Masinissa's kin
>and
>avoided a war he received the name Numantinus. In 147 he took over the
>Roman
>army in Africa as Consul elected by a special vote since he was under age.
>By 146, he captured the city of Carthage, and following Cato's lead
>destroyed
>it. Because this he was awarded "Africanus." Historians call him either
>Scipio Aemilianus or Africanus Minor.
>Vale
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
How does this life work?
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8671/8/_/61050/_/967273711/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:18:33 -0700 |
|
But was that his primary or even secondary objective? According to a book I
read, and I can't recall the title....Oh here it is... The Roman Art of War
Under the Republic, the main focus Rome, had was containing Carthage, and even
the victory at Zama wasnt designed to destroy Carthage, but cripple its ability
to carry on the War. And, didnt Hannibal become the governor of Carthage after
the Second Punic War?
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
David Wolfman wrote:
> I must admit I had mismatched the Scipios on the point of the destruction of
> Carthage. However, P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Maior went against the
> policies of Fabius Cunctator and crossed to Africa. He gambled and won the
> battle but he failed not only in killing or even capturing Hannibal.
>
> Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
>
> >From: sfp55@--------
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus
> >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:32:28 EDT
> >
> >From Q. Fabius Maximus to Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
> >
> >Salve!
> ><< Scipio disobeyed orders to fight Hannibal at Zama.<<
> >Not true. What the Senate said, led by my kinsman, was that if he was to
> >go
> >to Africa, he would only have limited resources from Rome. Remember, Barca
> >was still in Bruttii on Italian soil. Once Hannibal was recalled and Mago
> >killed, and there was no danger, the Senate faction that supported the
> >Cornelii swayed the rest into whole heartily pursuing the war to a finish
> >(202).
> >
> > >> He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed the streets with salt
> >slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or overlooked.>>
> >Not P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Africanus. He died in 184.
> >You are thinking of P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Aemilianus. He was
> >adopted
> >by the oldest son of Africanus, P. Cornelius Scipio (160)
> >Since he was from the Aemilian Gens, second son of L. Aemilius Pallus, his
> >cognomen was Aemilianus. After he divided Numidia among Masinissa's kin
> >and
> >avoided a war he received the name Numantinus. In 147 he took over the
> >Roman
> >army in Africa as Consul elected by a special vote since he was under age.
> >By 146, he captured the city of Carthage, and following Cato's lead
> >destroyed
> >it. Because this he was awarded "Africanus." Historians call him either
> >Scipio Aemilianus or Africanus Minor.
> >Vale
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Long Distance Savings! CLICK HERE!
http://click.egroups.com/1/6658/8/_/61050/_/967274265/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Druids |
| From: |
"Doug Barr" <dbarr@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:12:24 -0700 |
|
Rather depends if you're looking for modern or ancient.
One modern org is at http://www.adf.org, there are others but I don't know of them offhand.
Hope that helps.
Vale,
C. Albius Gadelicus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Lucilla Cornelia |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:23:03 GMT |
|
Salve Festus:
I hear what you're saying; As sad as I am to hear of her circumstances, it
is a relief to have some word about what is happening with Lucilla.
I am sure she takes comfort in the fact that she has a support system in NR.
She has made many friends here.
Vale,
Pompeia
>From: Lykaion1@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Lucilla Cornelia
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:47:06 EDT
>
> I too wish Lucilla a complete and speedy recovery.
>
>In a sense, this is almost a relief. Several of us had grown quite
>concerned
>that Lucilla was no longer interested or desirous to associate with us in
>NR.
> I confess to be kind of relieved that her absence is involuntary than
>deliberate!
>
>GLF
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967284544/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Unsubscribe |
| From: |
"steve" <steve@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 06:40:39 -0400 |
|
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
Install today:
http://click.egroups.com/1/6347/8/_/61050/_/967286140/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] vilified women |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:12:45 EDT |
|
Salvete Quiritibus!
I have received an email from L. Cornelius Quirinis asking for a
clarification on my post that included a query on vilified women in Roman
history. So I thought it best to post my reply here.
The name Messalina conjures up a few images, none very flattering. But I
rather feel at times that she, like so many other women in Greek and Roman
myth, had their reputations falsely impugned. How many tales are there of
women cast adrift, or like Auge drowned in the sea? Then there is Procopius'
account of the Empress Theodora's circus act. Messalina was an amateur
compared to Saint Theodora.
There is some question whether I meant modern Roman women as well as some
Classical examples. Truth is that when I wrote that, I was recalling Lorenza
Cagliostro, sentenced by the Inquisition in 1791 to languish in a nunnery.
In as much as the Classical myths have shaped Western culture and its
attitudes toward women over many centuries, yes I do mean modern examples
too. But let us see if we can keep that to a Roman theme. Women, if modern,
who were vilified by being compared to an example drawn from Classic myth or
Rome's ancient history. Or, examples of women vilified in ancient myth whose
image has been changed in modern times. For example Rossetti and the
Pre-Raphaelites of the Nineteenth century attempted to change the image of
women in myth, by the way they were to portray them with a subtle eroticism.
In the same period, Sarah Bernhardt's portrayal of Medea on stage alterred
that mythic image, and in turn the way we of today regard women in society.
As for perspective, Quirinis, what we write will naturally be from a
modern perspective. But I am curious about the contemporary perspective of
any woman you would care to mention, as that would also give an indication of
how our perspectives have, and have not, changed over the millenniums.
So any candidates of notable Roman women?
Valete
Piscinus
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967291968/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Question on Rhetoric WAS: Re: Another not so noble Roman |
| From: |
"Lucius" <vergil@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:40:23 -0400 |
|
Salvete, Quirites
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:41:34 -0700
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
> Subject: Question on Rhetoric WAS: Re: Another not so noble Roman,
>Cicero
> Piscinus@-------- wrote:
> > Salvete Quiritibus
> >
> > Most of us recall how Cicero was presented to us in school with a
> > certain fondness...
> > So here are offered a few edited comments on Cicero by one of his
> > contemporaries, Sallustius, who in an earlier age was also regarded as
> > the better rhetorician of the two:
>
> I wonder just what makes one a better rhetorician?
Who can convince you that their position is correct!?
> And, what types of rhetoric was there?
This is a useful resource. http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/rhetoric.html
> And how was it practised? Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Tacitus writes on this in his "Dialogus" (Loeb #35 ISBN 0-674-99039-0)
On the 'debates' of "notable Romans", The reason that we know so much about Gaius Iulius Caesar is because he told us. He was proud what he did to the Gauls. Consider that when you judge his actions. He was "bragging" about what a great general he was. So if it was such a "bad" thing to kill a bunch of Gauls or any other barbarians why would he have mentioned it?
Caesar had slain the 'boggie man' and brought vast riches to Roma. He was given unprecedented triumphs. Don't forget when he was assassinated he was planning to launch an expedition against the Parthians, who had killed Crassius and his army.
Remember the 'story' of his weeping at the site of a statue to Alexander and lamenting that by his age Alexander had conquered the 'world'. To the Romans it was important to leave your mark on the world. Thus, on the architrave of buildings such as the 'Pantheon' you will see "M-AGRIPPA-L-F-COS-TERTIVM-FECIT"
http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Pantheon.html/cid_1482174.gbi
He changed the world! No doubt *HE* was notable, whether or not you admire him. I admire him, but not as much as these others; P Vergilius Maro, P Ovidius Naso, Sextus Iulius Frontinus, M Vituvius Pollio,
M Terentius Varro...
>Salve
>Marcus Cornelius Felix sends greeting to the list
Nice to see you back, Pontifex Felix
Valete, Lucius Equitius
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
Install today:
http://click.egroups.com/1/6347/8/_/61050/_/967300658/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans |
| From: |
"David Wolfman" <dwolfman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 05:49:03 GMT |
|
I would like to name a few notables who have yet been mentioned and make a
small disclaimer on a few already mentioned.
Marcus Gavius Apicius=
professional chef and author of the world's first cookbook.
Marcus Porcius Cato=
an outspoken Repulican of his day, politician and soldier.
Emperor Claudius=
who was a historian, and a Republican despite it all.
Galen=
physician to gladiators and then to Marcus Aerlius, Commodus, and Septimius
Severus. He wrote the definative works on medicine that were used by Muslims
and Christians alike until the Renniasance.
Flavius Josephus=
risked his life to fight against the Romans but realized the might of Rome
was too great and became Roman. He wrote of the plight of the Jews from both
sides of the war and urged peace and religious tolerance.
Cladius Ptolemaeus=
astronomer and mathematician as well as a leading mapmaker of his day.
Now a note on "amoral" Romans.
I would like it be known that though unfortunate, Machiviallian methods were
used by Caesar and others because that was the only option avaible to them
at that period in history. Moses lead his people to Israel by slaughtering
the Cannanites. History is never one-sided. In Alexander the Great's
campaign one city-state Tyre stood its ground against his forces, and as an
example he crusified every man, woman, and child left after the siege. Yes,
Sulla, Marius, and Caesar as generals butchered but force was the only
option these men had. These men also changed Rome for the greater good and
paid for it with their lives. To judge these men by their actions you must
take into account the sum total of action as well as the times they lived in
and to judge them by the standards and morals of their day.
Caesar decimated the Gauls, but the Gauls destoryed the Roman armies and
parts of the city before Caesar ever step foot in France. The Romans were
retaliating. It was a matter of ROman pride that the Gauls had to be put to
the sword and be subjects of Rome, their leaders brought in chains. But the
Romans did not destory the Gauls, they were assimiled as many others had
before and would later on. What anyone failed to mention that Caesar did
that was anti-Roman was to march his troops into the city, and that was a
major reason he was assinated. It is also hypocritical to look down upon
this man's faults while praising Scipio Africanus. Scipio disobeyed orders
to fight Hannibal at Zama. He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed
the streets with salt slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or
overlooked. Today a general in his right mind would not even think of taking
such action, but in the times of the Romans, up until the Renisoance it was
a common policy. Caesar, Scipio, and Dwight Eisenhower were generals. They
did not become leaders of men because they were moral, or kind hearted. In
war respect is earned in battle and unfortunately the truth in war, in any
war, civilians will die in larger numbers than anyone would care to admit.
My last note on notable Romans is a by the book, and by all accounts harsh
military govenor who once hel a post in Judea... Pontius Pilot who
unwittingly helped create a new religion by condemning a martyr.
>From: "pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Notable Romans
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:49:21 -0000
>
>I'm looking for ideas in connection with a project that would
>introduce
>a general audience to an overview of ancient Rome through the stories
>of individual Romans.
>
>Who, in your opinion, are the men and women of historical record who
>best represent the spirit of Rome, both for good and for ill? Why?
>
>Patricia Cassia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
How does this life work?
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8671/8/_/61050/_/967302652/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Druids |
| From: |
"j.mason4" <j.mason4@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:07:39 +0100 |
|
Salve,
Yes agreed but to look at it from another angle, imagine the tribal warfare
which must have ravaged these islands.People imagine that before the
conquest we all danced around Stone Circles, in a mystical wonderland with
fairies and mistletoe.
The Druids were fiercely secretive of their craft, this is why their are no
records today or was it that the rituals were too shocking for disclosure.
Tackitus wrote "These groves hallowed with the cruel superstitions; for they
held it right to stain their altars with the blood of prisoners taken in
war,and to seek to know the mind of the gods from the fibres of human
victims."
So who exactly were the Druids at war with,? unless propaganda prevailed in
ancient times. Perhaps for those who find the Conquest an abhorrent part of
our history, it may have been the only thing that could join the warring
factions in a common goal.
Benevolentia
~~S~~
----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Metellus Valentinus <websurfer07@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 7:17 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Druids
> --- In novaroma@--------, "j.mason4" <j.mason4@n...> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > The Druids although noted as a barbarous people were also the
> enforcers of the laws in ancient Briton, and it is also noted that
> they only inflicted their penalties on law breakers and enemies.
> > Sacrifice was an intricate part of ancient belief, who am I to
> stand as judge, they gave some order to the peoples here in.
> > I just feel that it was time for a change to be implemented and who
> better than the advanced culture of the Romans to take on the role as
> law giver.
> >
> > Benevolentia
> > ~~S~~
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Salve,
>
>
> It's true what you say, but let's not compare apples and
> oranges. These two were very different cultures, with different
> views on life etc.
> The Romans became an urban culture with a literary tradition,
> while the Celts (druids included) were for the most part (a large
> portion of their history) nomadic with an oral tradition.
> It's no surprise that they fought hard to oppose the Romans.
> Can you imagine, in our modern times, a "super power" like, say
> Russia suddenly deciding to invade one's country, drastically
> changing one's way of life, and imposing a belief and form of
> government so foreign to one's own? People would obviously defend
> themselves with all might.
> As much as I admire Rome and it's culture, I try not to fall
> into this way of thinking where I view them as somekind of "saviours"
> or "bringers of light." I see them more as bringers of change, and
> founders of a large part of Western thought and culture (particularly
> modern Latin culture in the west). Culture elitism should be
> avoided, because it's usual founded on ignorance. Let's read the
> Roman historians with a grain of salt
> Just a thought.
>
> - G. Metellus Valentinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Free @Backup service! Click here for your free trial of @Backup.
@Backup is the most convenient way to securely protect and access
your files online. Try it now and receive 300 MyPoints.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6348/8/_/61050/_/967303012/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus |
| From: |
"David Wolfman" <dwolfman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 06:57:42 GMT |
|
I must admit I had mismatched the Scipios on the point of the destruction of
Carthage. However, P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus Maior went against the
policies of Fabius Cunctator and crossed to Africa. He gambled and won the
battle but he failed not only in killing or even capturing Hannibal.
>From: sfp55@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans: two Scipio Africanus
>Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:32:28 EDT
>
>From Q. Fabius Maximus to Marcus Sententiosus Lupis
>
>Salve!
><< Scipio disobeyed orders to fight Hannibal at Zama.<<
>Not true. What the Senate said, led by my kinsman, was that if he was to
>go
>to Africa, he would only have limited resources from Rome. Remember, Barca
>was still in Bruttii on Italian soil. Once Hannibal was recalled and Mago
>killed, and there was no danger, the Senate faction that supported the
>Cornelii swayed the rest into whole heartily pursuing the war to a finish
>(202).
>
> >> He also razed Carthage to the ground and sowed the streets with salt
>slaughtering and capturing slaves, yet these facts or overlooked.>>
>Not P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Africanus. He died in 184.
>You are thinking of P. Cornelius Scipio cognotive Aemilianus. He was
>adopted
>by the oldest son of Africanus, P. Cornelius Scipio (160)
>Since he was from the Aemilian Gens, second son of L. Aemilius Pallus, his
>cognomen was Aemilianus. After he divided Numidia among Masinissa's kin
>and
>avoided a war he received the name Numantinus. In 147 he took over the
>Roman
>army in Africa as Consul elected by a special vote since he was under age.
>By 146, he captured the city of Carthage, and following Cato's lead
>destroyed
>it. Because this he was awarded "Africanus." Historians call him either
>Scipio Aemilianus or Africanus Minor.
>Vale
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
Install today:
http://click.egroups.com/1/6347/8/_/61050/_/967303298/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Gladiator Update |
| From: |
StarVVreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:32:46 EDT |
|
Salvete!
Gladiator now stands at #34 in all time high gross films. Wow!
http://spielberg-dreamworks.com/gladiator/Latest_News.htm
Vale!
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Evolution is not necessarily collective...
Courses, consultations and free lectures online.
http://click.egroups.com/1/8670/8/_/61050/_/967303973/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Unsubscribe |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:47:22 -0000 |
|
Anyone wishing to leave this list may do so by sending a blank e-mail
to novaroma-unsubscribe@-------- (from the address where you're
receiving the mail).
If you just want to take a break, consider going to the eGroups site
(www.egroups.com) and changing your setting to "No Mail/Web Only" for
this list. I also find this convenient for viewing the list from
multiple locations (home, work, Cassius' shop).
Patricia Cassia
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Phone bills too big? Don't worry, beMANY!
http://click.egroups.com/1/6906/8/_/61050/_/967304847/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Five Emperors - new e-book |
| From: |
"Alex Gough" <alex.gough@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:21:08 +0100 |
|
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to let you know about my novel which has just been released by Pulsar Books. It's a historical novel called Five Emperors.
Five Emperors is set in Ancient Rome, in the time of Nero and the civil wars that followed his death. It tells the tale of a Roman nobleman, Titus, who is locked in a loveless marriage. He suffers the death of his son and his wife miscarries, and finds solace in his best friend's wife. Civil wars give him the chance to advance his career in the army and in politics, but ultimately it is a love he cannot have that he craves.
Download an excerpt or buy on-line at www.pulsarbooks.com/historical.html
--
Alex Gough MA VetMB MRCVS
http://freespace.virgin.net/alex.gough
Author of:
Five Emperors (available now at www.pulsarbooks.com/historical.html)
Roman historical novel
Working with Animals (published November 00 by How to Books)
Careers guide
Pets on the Net (published April 01 by Internet Handbooks)
Internet guide
Alex Gough MA VetMB MRCVS
http://freespace.virgin.net/alex.gough
Author of:
Five Emperors (available now at www.pulsarbooks.com/historical.html)
Roman historical novel
Working with Animals (published November 00 by How to Books)
Careers guide
Pets on the Net (published April 01 by Internet Handbooks)
Internet guide
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967306870/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Notable Romans |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:25:05 +0200 |
|
Sextus Apollonius Draco Marco Sententioso Lupiti Quiritubusque S.P.D.
Yes, you are quite right about men such as Alexander and Caesar, yet I have
a small thing to add to your personal list of notable Romans.
I've seen the name Cato appear on many list as "the" republican. True, but
he was also a racist against the Greeks and accused them of conspiring
against the Romans, and said they had vowed to kill any Roman. With all
respect for him being a republican, the good man *did* have some rediculous
ideas that can't be placed in a context of war, such as Caesar. I think
there have been better republicans with smaller mouths.
Vale bene!
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae,
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
--**--
"There is no knowledge that is not power"
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
--**--
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Free @Backup service! Click here for your free trial of @Backup.
@Backup is the most convenient way to securely protect and access
your files online. Try it now and receive 300 MyPoints.
http://click.egroups.com/1/6348/8/_/61050/_/967307468/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Another not so noble Roman, Cicero |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:51:58 +0200 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
I feel called upon to defend M. Tullius Cicero. Piscinus attacked
him with a quote from Sallustius - a good rhetorician as Piscinus
notes - and indeed Sallust uses every traditional trick in the
classical rhetorician's book to vilify our poor Consul, Advocate and
Philosopher. The charges are standard, and must therefore be duly
discounted. Antique vilifiers were fond of pouring such a concoction
of filth on the victim that even if an audience perceived that much
of it was utter nonsense, a little of the odour would seem to stick.
Rather on the principle "Where there is smoke there must be fire."
This can by no means be taken to imply that the audience was expected
to believe all or even most of it just because Sallust said it, or
that saying it before a contemporary audience implied that there was
general agreement to something "everybody knows." And that one
rhetorician should be envious of another is a considerable motive for
vilification, not requiring any any fault on the part of the
recipient.
Marcus Tullius was to some extent an outsider to Rome's circles of
power, and he rose to the august position of Consul of the Respublica
through his own intellectual talents. There was always a feeling of
not being completely esteemed by the Establishment (although everyone
was ready to avail themselves of his unparalleled forensic skills at
need), and this caused him to blow his own horn a bit too loudly -
which did him no good in his own time, although we have since begun
to appraise him for his true worth. (Revisionists like our Piscinus
excepted!)
He did indeed save the Respublica from the Cataline Conspiracy, for
which the appreciation could have been more profound and long-lasting
than it was were the world just - and he did not stop there, but was
so feared by the self-serving and tyrannous that he was proscribed.
And died in the end, with dignity and in the cause of human freedom,
by assassination. His hand was nailed to the Rostra - a very sure
sign that this hand had written many things displeasing to tyrants,
which is something that should go a long way to commending him to us.
That he was sometimes weak, sometimes a little greedy, sometimes
skirted the borders of malpractice, and often felt undermined by the
shallowness of respect felt by many opinion makers around him and
perhaps overreacted to that is all true. But he also singlehandedly
created the style of Latin which has proved normative since the
Renaissance, including providing the Latin tongue with a vocabulary
of philosophical words which has stood it in good stead in the two
millennia since his death.
He was not a great philosopher by any means, but he made
philosophical discourse in Latin possible. And the fact that he was
deeply concerned with moral questions in his philosophical writings,
and I think obviously sincerely so, shows that he was trying to be a
good person and to think through exactly what that meant. And indeed
in his actions he consistently used his influence to preserve the
Respublica with a balance of powers and freedom for all Romans -
Concordia -, and never attempted to gain for himself a personal power
that would overshadow the Respublica as did Pompeius and Caesar.
Vale!
Piscinus scripsit:
Most of us recall how Cicero was presented to us in school with a
certain fondness. How many realize that over a hundred years after
his death Cicero's work was stock in trade material for every comic
to do stand up in Rome? Even Juvenal makes a passing comment
referring to Cicero, "What third-rate advocate's blood ever stained
the rostra, O fortunate Rome, born in my great Consulate?"
So here are offered a few edited comments on Cicero by one of his
contemporaries, Sallustius, who in an earlier age was also regarded
as the better rhetorician of the two:
"I should be troubled and angered by your abuse, Marcus Tullius
(Cicero), if I were sure that your impudence was the result of
intentions rather than of a disordered mind. But since I perceive in
you neither moderation nor any modesty, I shall answer you....Pray,
Marcus Tullius (Cicero), are your deeds and words unknown to us?
Have you not lived such a life from childhood that you thought
nothing a disgrace to your body which any other's desire
prompted? Did you not in fact learn all your unchecked torrent of
language UNDER M. Piso at the expense of your chastity? It is,
therefore, not at all surprising that you trade upon it shamefully,
when you acquired it most shamefully.
"But, I suppose, your spirits are raised by the brilliance of your
home, by a wife guilty of sacrilege and dishonored in perjury, by a
daughter who is her mother's rival and is more compliant and
submissive to you than a daughter should be to a parent. Even your
house...you obtained by violence and robbery...And in spite of all
this, Cicero declares that he was present at the council of the
immortal gods, from which he, a man who makes disaster
to his country the means of his own glorification, was sent as a
protector to this city and its citizens? Not as its executioner?
"...The man who could do nothing for you was most liable to be
falsely accused under you...If my charges are false, render an
account of the amount of patrimony which you inherited, and of what
has come to you by lawsuits, and tell us where you got the money to
buy your house and build your villas at Tusculum and Pompeii
regardless of the expense? If you are now silent, who could doubt
but that you amassed that wealth from the blood and wretchedness of
our citizens?
"(Cicero) is the most unstable of men, a suppliant to his enemies,
insulting to his friends, an adherent now to this party and now of
that, loyal to no one, an unstable senator, a mercenary counsel, free
from disgrace in no member of his body, with a false tongue, thievish
hands, a bottomless gullet, fleeting feet; most dishonored in that
part of his body which cannot honorably be named."
Our excerpt goes on to reveal a few more details of both the
public figure and the private man we know as Cicero. At one point he
also ridicules Cicero's poem, "O fortunate Rome, born in my
consulate; fortunate in having you as her consul, Cicero? ...as if
there were any difference between you and a dictator like Sulla..."
Yes, Cicero was relegated with the most unsavory of Romans by those
who knew him. What his contemporaries most remembered
about Cicero was that like Sulla he abused the authority of his
office for profit and his own petty pursuits.
Cicero never did make a reply to Sallustius' charges. There was
little point, as everyone in Rome, as Sallustius mentioned, did know
exactly what kind of person Cicero really was. The pseudo-Cicero
reply sometimes found accompanying this invective on Cicero was
actually written centuries later by an admirer of the former orator.
And all those speeches he made in murders trials, the ones we were
taught to so admire, are often nothing more than examples of an
unethical and vile lawyer prosecuting honest men for his own
personal profit.
Such are the heroes of our childhood revealed. So here is another
contest for you to contemplate: What women, rightfully or not, have
been vilified in all of Roman history more than Messalina?
Si curate ut valeatis, bene est.
Gn. Moravius Piscinus
Retarius et Rogator Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius
ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
________________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
Nothing makes you feel like a new car
So treat yourself the easy way
Click below
http://click.egroups.com/1/8419/8/_/61050/_/967309300/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] vilified women |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:07:57 -0600 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
>From Livia Cornelia Aurelia:
You could say that pretty much any woman whose record survived to use would be a
Notable Roman, since so few records about women survive compared to men.
Generally speaking, we know about them either because they did something
remarkably virtuous, or remarkable lacking in virtue. I certainly place
Messalina in the "lacking virtue" category.
Here are a few that could lay claim to virtue:
Cornelia, Mother of the Gracchi
I've already thrown out Cornelia, Mother of the Gracchi as a candidate for a
noble woman. Some little is known about her, as I've already posted before, and
it's such that I think we can rightly view her as an example of a good and
virtuous Roman woman. Two of her letters to her sons survive.
Hortensia, the daughter of Quintus Hortensius (contemporary rival of Cicero)
Although now lost, it is known that her speech in 42 B.C. was preserved and read
many years after it was delivered. When the triumvirs Octavian, Antony, and
Lepidus were unable to raise enough money by selling the property of the people
they had proscribed (or condemned to death by judicial process for political
revenge or financial expediency), they decided to pass an edict demanding
evaluations of the property of the 1400 wealthiest women, in order to collect
money from them.
Hortensia made the speech after appealing and being denied assistance from
Fulvia, Antony's wife, per the custom that aggreived women appealed to the wives
of leaders for aid in their cause.
In her speech, she took the triumvirate to task for first bereaving them of their
husbands and sons through the proscriptions, and now taxing the sole means of
support (presumably, since the men were already proscribed, predominately their
marriage dowries) left to women already widowed and fatherless -- women who
themselves had no recourse to the vote or to hold public or military office, nor
had participated in civic matters which led to the proscriptions -- in order to
fund a civil war which was destroying Rome and was in no way about glorifying or
protecting Rome from external peril.
The speech had an effect. The next day the triumvirs reduced considerably the
number of women to be taxed, and instead decreed that men worth 100,000 sesterces
or more were required to make substantial contributions.
Eumachia. Pompeii, 1st cent. A.D.
Eumachia was priestess and prominent citizen of the city of Pompeii. She was
patroness of the guild of fullers (cleaners, dyers, and clothing makers), one of
the most influential trade-guilds of the city because of the importance of the
wool industry in Pompeii's economy. Although her ancestry was humble, the
fortune she inherited from her father, a brick manufacturer, enabled her to marry
into one of Pompeii's older families. She provided the fullers with a large and
beautiful building which was probably used as the guild's headquarters.
Julia Domna. Rome, 3rd cent. A.D.
(Dio Cassius, History of Rome, 78.2, 18.1-3; 79.23, exc. Early 3rd cent. A.D. G)
Julia Domna, born in Syria, was the wife of the emperor Septimius Severus
(193-211) and mother of his successor, Caracalla (Antoninus, 211-17). She was
known for her love of learning and her wit. After her husband's death, she
supported her younger son, Geta, in his unsuccessful claim to the throne against
Caracalla. After Caracalla killed Geta, and during Caracalla's reign, she
supported him publicly. After his death she unsuccessfully plotted to secure the
rulership herself. When her breast cancer advanced, she ended her life through
starvation. (as recorded by Dio Cassius)
Piscinus@-------- wrote:
> Salvete Quiritibus!
>
> I have received an email from L. Cornelius Quirinis asking for a
> clarification on my post that included a query on vilified women in Roman
> history. So I thought it best to post my reply here.
> The name Messalina conjures up a few images, none very flattering. But I
> rather feel at times that she, like so many other women in Greek and Roman
> myth, had their reputations falsely impugned. How many tales are there of
> women cast adrift, or like Auge drowned in the sea? Then there is Procopius'
> account of the Empress Theodora's circus act. Messalina was an amateur
> compared to Saint Theodora.
> There is some question whether I meant modern Roman women as well as some
> Classical examples. Truth is that when I wrote that, I was recalling Lorenza
> Cagliostro, sentenced by the Inquisition in 1791 to languish in a nunnery.
> In as much as the Classical myths have shaped Western culture and its
> attitudes toward women over many centuries, yes I do mean modern examples
> too. But let us see if we can keep that to a Roman theme. Women, if modern,
> who were vilified by being compared to an example drawn from Classic myth or
> Rome's ancient history. Or, examples of women vilified in ancient myth whose
> image has been changed in modern times. For example Rossetti and the
> Pre-Raphaelites of the Nineteenth century attempted to change the image of
> women in myth, by the way they were to portray them with a subtle eroticism.
> In the same period, Sarah Bernhardt's portrayal of Medea on stage alterred
> that mythic image, and in turn the way we of today regard women in society.
> As for perspective, Quirinis, what we write will naturally be from a
> modern perspective. But I am curious about the contemporary perspective of
> any woman you would care to mention, as that would also give an indication of
> how our perspectives have, and have not, changed over the millenniums.
> So any candidates of notable Roman women?
>
> Valete
> Piscinus
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
Apply NOW!
http://click.egroups.com/1/7872/8/_/61050/_/967312150/
---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
|
