Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: "RPG", Resignations, et alia
From:	"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:33:54 +0100


Subject:	[novaroma] Appius Has Returned!
From:	Appiusequitius@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:37:13 EDT


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: "RPG", Resignations, et alia
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:49:57 -0700

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Sulla: Ave!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:33 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: "RPG", Resignations, et alia

>
> Quiritibus salutem
>
> This is primarily a response to Pompeia Cornelia's post admonishing my son
Piscinus
> for quoting Censor L. Cornelius Sulla's former resignation in full.
>
> Without prejudice to the rights and wrongs of the issue being argued in
the dialogue on this list between Lucius Cornelius and Cn. Moravius, I have
to agree with Pompeia Cornelia that a citizen's former errors of judgement
should not be brought up again, if they are irrelevant to the matter being
debated.

Sulla: Thank you Vado for your comment on this.

> Our senior Censor was both unwell and extremely upset when he made those
regrettable remarks about the integrity and dignity of Nova Roma and her
citizens, and not long afterward he made a copious public apology. I agree
that to quote those unfortunate remarks as part of an argument on the
constitutional limits of a censor's powers was neither necessary nor
relevant.

Sulla: Yes at the time I was still recovering from my surgery and I was on
either Morphine or Codiene at the time (its still kind of a blur). While I
do completely remember that unfortunate incident, I can say that it was
completely resolved within 12 hours of that email, with the assistance of my
Gens member, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo.

> It might, however, be considered relevant and necessary to cite such
behaviour if a citizen's moral character or fitness for (re) election to
public office were an issue of public debate - but this is not, of course,
the case.

Sulla: Oh I agree at the correct time and place this might be relevant..but
here we were debating Constitutional issues!

> Cnaeus Moravius is, in part, defending what he perceives to be his pater's
dignitas and best interests, which I think all will agree is, considered
alone and in itself, a pious and praiseworthy act; he is also voicing his
criticisms about an act of both censors which - if I've been reading this
thread right - he believes to be illegal, and this, too, is both his right
as a citizen and - I would say - the moral obligation of any good citizen
who entertains such beliefs.

Sulla: Let me state for the record no one has said or implied that you,
Vado will not be in the Senate. For that matter, since this issue was
placed on the agenda and passed, my colleague and I havent even discussed
it! We are both busy trying to make the transition from my active Censor
period to his!

Sulla: It is the opinion of both Censors, as per backed up by the
Constitution it is not. Even ex-Praetor M. Mucius Scaevola, who is an
learned attorney, and, if I recall correctly teaches law agreed with my
interpretation of the Constitution, in regards to the definition of
discretion and the power vested by the Constitution in that regard.

> To draw attention to an individual's alleged moral shortcomings regarding
his or her fitness for office (as Sulla has done, both publicly and
privately, to Piscinus) is, again, any citizen's right and duty, and this is
particularly so in the case of a censor who, I think we must all agree, must
be himself morally beyond reproach in both public and private life, both
within Nova Roma and without.
>
> Personally, I fear that Censor Sulla's actions in this respect have been
taken by my filius as a personal attack - I offer no personal opinion here
as to the possible motivation for such actions - and as such have so angered
Piscinus as to cause him to overstep the bounds of propriety. As
paterfamilias of gens Moravia I express my deepest regret for this.

Sulla: I do thank you for that Vado.

> In mitigation, I would ask all those who entertain censorious thoughts
towards my son's affront to L. Cornelius Sulla's dignitas and auctoritas, to
bear in mind that he is an army veteran who, (I hope he will forgive me for
mentioning it, since he has not) as a result of his service to his country,
is sometimes not in the best of health - and that therefore some due
allowance should be made for him in this respect, just as due allowance has
been made for Sulla's errors of judgement during his temporary illness
earlier this year.

Sulla: I know that Piscinus is a military veteran. Before our falling out
him and I chatted quite a bit. I enjoyed our conversations before the
unpleasantness of his statements came to my attention.

> Having said all that, I hope we can now drag this debate away from
personal issues, and back again to common principles such as reasoned logic,
appeal to law and ethical principles - on which I hope we can all -
eventually - agree.

Sulla: That would be fine to me. But, I dont know how I could explain my
position more succintly than I have. My colleague agrees with my assessment
and so does our Ex-Praetor who actually is an attorney, and if I recall
correctly a teacher to future attorneys! While I only have a Paralegals
degree, a Bachelors Degree in Public Administration (where discretion is
greatly discussed in terms of administrative agencies and such) and an MBA,
I feel that my interpretation is correct based upon the education I have
received. While I have yet to become an attorney, it is something I intend
to do, maybe once I stop being a Censor! ;)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1009
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:20:58 EDT


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gatherings
From:	"Peggy Backlund" <backlund@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:12:45 -0000


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Gatherings
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:31:31 -0700 (PDT)


Subject:	[novaroma] out of action
From:	wicachu@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:02:28 EDT

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Fellow Nova Romans,
I have been offrered a new job in a neighboring state. I will be without
email access for about 6 weeks, maybe two months begining in a week or so. I
won't be posting at all, and I ask your forgiveness for being so out of it as
of late to begin with. I have been job hunting, getting my divorce going and
dealing with a son none too happy about moving , and to his wee eyes, losing
his entire life.
One last bit of cranky 'ol Mamma Brit :
May common sense and decency prevail on the list... and may people stop to
think, before they speak. Words have immense power my friends... choose them
carefully. Consider that if NR is an organic and whole being, a negative
thought or action sent forth into the group, turns into a poison that affects
the sender as well.
Be well wary and wise my friends, and I shall see you anon.

Iona Sententiosa Britaega


Subject:	[novaroma] Idus September
From:	"Lucius" <vergil@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:05:26 -0400

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Wednesday 13 Idvs / Lvdi Romani / Ivppiter Optimvs Maximvs nefastus publicus

Idus September
The Ides of September

This day (NP), is for special religious observance.

The Ides of September are sacred to the Capitoline triad - Jupiter, Juno and Minerva, for whom temples were dedicated in 509 BC.

This is one of the days on which the salt cakes, the mola salsa, were used as part of the sacrificial meal. This is the only day of the month in which sacrificing and feasting would occur in public.

The Ludi Romani, the great games in honor of Jupiter (Jove) continued this day and were celebrated through to the 19th.

13 September ID. SEPT. NP

Iovi Optimo Maximo (Ant. mai.)
Iovi epulum (Arv.Sab.)
Iovi, Iunoni, Minervae (Vall.)
Epulum Minervae (Menol. mense Sept.)

"On this day when the temple of Iupiter Optimus Maximus had traditionally been dedicated by M. Horatius Pulvillius, the first consul of the Republic, Iupiter was honored on the Capital. At some time a feast
(epulum) was established. This can hardly predate the dedication of the temple in 509, although it is just conceivable that it replaced an earlier common sacrificial meal of the primitive Romans at some other site, like that of the feriae Latinae or of the curiae at the Fordicidia. However it is not specifically mentioned in the Republican Fasti Antiantes maiores, while the late Menologia attribute a epulum Minervae to September; further, in his third decade Livy refers to the epulum Iovis only in connection with the Ludi Plebeii on 13 November, and not with the Ludi Romani. Mommensen therefore concluded that Iupiter's feast was celebrated on the 13 September only under the Empire and that earlier Minerva alone received a feast in September. But, unlike the Menologia, the early imperial calendars mention a joint feast of Iupiter, Iuno and Minerva, while the epulum Iovis is likely to be older than the institution of the Plebian Games in c. 220 BC and the building of the Circus Flaminius in which they were held. Thus, although we cannot be certain, a feast of Iupiter was not necessarily a feature only of the Plebian Games, but may have been held on 113 September from early times.
The increase in the number of public feast led to the creation of a college of three eplones in 196 BC to organize the banquets; by the end of the Republic their members had increased to ten. The magistrates and senators attended the epulum Iovis, which began with a sacrifice (perhaps a white heifer). The second batch of mola salsa, which the Vestal Virgins had prepared earlier in the year, was now used (the first had been offered at the Vestalia, the third was reserved for the Lupercalia). At the banquet itself images or the three deities presided, dressed for a feast: Iupiter, his face reddened with minium, was placed on a couch (lectulus), while Iuno and Minerva had sellae. Tables with food were laid before them, and music was probably played. Unfortunately little detail is provided by the ancient sources but clearly this gathering of all the senate in the presence of the supreme divine guardians of the State must have been an impressive spectacle and a fitting climax of the more solemn aspect of the Ludi Romani.
A very important ritual in the early history of the Capitaline temple was the driving of a nail on the Ides of September into a wall of the temple by the praetor maximus or other magistrate. Whether this ceremony was designed merely to record the passage of the years or had some magical or apotropaic significance it apparently did not out last the third century BC, and so need not be considered here."
from 'Festivals & Ceremonies of the Roman Republic' by HH Scullard

Bene Omnibus Nobis
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1010
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:22:51 EDT

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In a message dated 9/13/2000 7:12:11 AM, novaroma@-------- writes:

<< Basically,
Nova
Roma needs its own "events". A quick, and friendly thought while on
break at work.

Bene valete.
C. Aelius Ericius. >>
Oh yes no can aruge that thought.
I live far from any other members (northern Indiana) and would find it
for more expensive to go to a hotel far away than taking advantage of a large
SCA event that other NR members may come to. (if that has change, Please let
me know as I don't have access to the web right now. I am useing an Old mac
that some one loaned me and i can only access the mail function)
The SCA is far more relaxed than it was even 5 years ago. The official
garb statement is something about an attempt at garb before the 17th century.
However each group/kingdom does have its own flavor on that garb issue. In my
Kingdom I see a lot of early garb especially in the summer. There is a
household that honors a deceased Knight by wearing imperial and late Roman
garb as well as armor. I took a class at Pennsic on Roman cooking this last
one.
Nova Roman has a higher purpose and should have its own gathers but at
first we need to make full use of that is around us.


Subject:	[novaroma] Remains may be of female gladiator
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:01:10 -0500 (CDT)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1009
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:48:44 -0400 (EDT)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Gatherings
From:	scott dolleck <sdolzg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT)

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Salve,

I myself have been an SCA member for many years
and know of quite a few personas that are roman.
(And that's alot of people)
It is NOT out of period to be roman!

But thats just my opinion...

Lucius

--- Peggy Backlund <backlund@--------> wrote:
> I too have a comment regarding the suggestion that
> we should have a
> gathering at Pensic War. I have been and continue
> to be active in
> the SCA. The time range for the Society is supposed
> to be 600 a.d. to
> 1600 a.d., although in the last few years this has
> been expanded to
> 1650 a.d. to accomodate those who wish to have
> Cavalier personas.
> Although I, myself would not get in anyone's face
> about having a
> Roman gathering at an SCA event, it IS out of period
> and I would feel
> like my hospitality was being trod upon. When in
> Rome......
>
> Gnaea Caprenia Gallia
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] News item--Skeleton of female gladiator discovered
From:	JSA <varromurena@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:07:33 -0700 (PDT)


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: News item--Skeleton of female gladiator discovered
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:13:07 -0000

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Gladiator, or a rich Gladiator Groupie.

--- In novaroma@--------, JSA <varromurena@y...> wrote:
>
> Sept. 12 - A young woman who was cremated and
> buried with costly goods centuries ago in Roman London
> may be the first discovery of a female
> gladiator, archaeologists said today.
>
> The woman, estimated to be in her 20s, was
> identified by a fragment of a pelvis. She was buried
> with one dish decorated with the image
> of a fallen gladiator, and other vessels with
> symbols associated with gladiators, said Hedley Swain,
> head of the Early Department at the Museum
> of London.
>
>
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Sections/science/DailyNews/gladiator000912.h
tml
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Gatherings
From:	"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:56:11 -0400


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Appius Has Returned!
From:	"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:16:53 +0100