| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1011 |
| From: |
asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:56:54 EDT |
|
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In a message dated 9/14/2000 7:10:17 AM, novaroma@-------- writes:
<< S. Ambrosia Fulvia, who in the SCA is known as Baroness Arwen Evaine ferch
Rhys ap Gwynedd, CL, CP, and who at one
point had been East Kingdom Seneschal and at another point East Kingdom
Minister of Arts. Folks usually call me
"Auntie Arwen"; the Welsh name is too long for this MTV generation...
>>
ok so if we can get our act together ( remember this later) I will offer to
host a Nova Roma Meeting in my shires camp next year. There are much more
of us than I thought! Too bad we didn't start this disscussion in July.
P. A. Olivia
Sheika Aminah bint Abdullah from the Shire of Shadowed Stars. Middle kingodm
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] SCA and brief absence |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 03:07:02 -0000 |
|
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Salvete omnes!
Since the SCA has come up as a topic, I'll just mention in passing
that
Cassius and I will be at Crown Tournament Oct. 28 in Malagentia
(Maine), and I'm trying to persuade him that we should go in full
Roman
regalia. I encourage all SCAdians to consider attending - it's a
beautiful location.
In the meantime, we will both be away starting, well, now, and will
probably not be able to respond to e-mail till late Monday or
sometime
Tuesday.
This should not be an issue, since you're all going to behave with
dignitas, comitas and general excellence, right?
Should a list emergency arise, the Praetors, Antonius Gryllus Graecus
and Marcus Iunius Iulianus, have moderator privileges. (Gentlemen:
You
can exercise these by going to the eGroups site and clicking on
"Members" on the left-hand side.)
Patricia Cassia
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN: Graecus is back |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:06:34 +0100 |
|
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Salvete
I'm back from Germany and ready to resume my functions.
Besides visiting the beautiful city of Dresden, I have occupied my time
reading Cicero. Everybody should read the De Senectute and De Amicitia,
which in my view are two works that present the essence of the Roman
virtues, the best way to face life and death. I've also indexed the relevant
parts of the De Divinatione that can help recovering the augural (and
haruspical) tradition. I'm now eager to read De Respublica and De Natura
Deorum.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Religio Romana and non-believers: a quote from Cicero's De Divinatione |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:11:13 +0100 |
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Salvete
I'm sending this posting as a private citizen. Stemming from a philosophical
debate I had with Marcus Cassius Iulianus, our most esteemed Pontifex
Maximus, he sugested me to write something about the role that Religio can
play in the life of a non-believer Novi Romani. Maybe this is the beginning
of such a text.
So, this posting is mainly directed to those who, curious as they are and
ought to be, ask sometimes if the Novi Romani really believe the Roman Gods
or the practice of some rites such as that of the Augural art. My personal
answer is that some of us believe, others do not, and yet others don't know
whether to believe or not.
And this obvious answer I think could well have been given by a Roman like
Cicero, for the theory practice of the Religio Romana does not prevent
humans to think and find out for themselves - with the help of philosophy -
the nature of human existence. Indeed, the Gods must necessarily approve of
him who wonders at the Creation of Nature, constantly doubting and trying to
discover the occult secrets of existence.
I would like to share a passage of the De Divinatione of Cicero that I found
specially touching and interesting and which illustrates the harmony between
Religion and Philosophy as attained by the Religio Romana and its absense of
dogma. This clearly shows how the Religio is firstly a matter of Romanitas,
which may (or not) be complemented with unargued, accepted belief. In fact
the only belief really required is that in one's own Romanitas.
I'd like also to praise here the piety of some of our most esteemed
magistrates (I will not say their name in order to keep their privacy
untouched. Anyway, most of us clearly know who deserves my words) who,
though identifying themselves with various Religious creeds, keep the flame
of the Religio alive in everyday of the affairs of our Respublica.
Hope you enjoy this passage.
Speaking of Divination (Cicero was an Augur), in which Cicero did not
personally believe, Cicero says (De Divinatione, LXXII):
"Then let dreams be rejected along with the rest. Speaking frankly,
superstition, which is widespread among the nations, has taken advantage of
human weakness to cast its spell over the mind of almost every man. This
same view was stated in my treatise De Natura Deorum; and to prove the
correctness of that view has been the chief aim of the present discussion.
For I thought that I should be rendering a great service both to myself and
to my countrymen if I could tear this superstition up by the roots.
But I want it distinctly understood that the destruction of superstition
does not mean the destruction of religion. For I consider it the part of
wisdom to preserve the institutions of our forefathers by retaining their
sacred rites and ceremonies. Furthermore, the celestial order and the beauty
of the universe compel me to confess that there is some excellent and
eternal Being, who deserves the respect and homage of men (...)"
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Civis
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman Days/West |
| From: |
contexa@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:27:47 -0000 |
|
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Avete,
If you are planning on attending Roman Days/West please email me at
legioix@--------
thank you
Hibernicus
Legio IX Hispana
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [ReligioRomana] The Religio Romana and non-believers: a quote from Cicero's De Divinatione |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:21:16 -0600 |
|
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Salvete, Omnes
>From Livia Cornelia Aurelia.
Thank you for these thoughts, Graecus. It's actually very helpful, and I hope
it spurs on more discussion about ways to bring the Religio to life in a
practical, everyday manner, in congruity with the recognition that not everybody
in Nova Roma cares to participate in the Religio.
Speaking for myself, I do indeed wish to know more about the Religio and to
embrace the Religio, and I don't want to do it privately. To me, the Religio is
about the community -- after all, in Roma Antiqua, there were the public gods
and worship, and then there were the private, household gods. I can certainly
attend to the private, household gods myself and with my gens, but for the
public worship I look to our Nova Roma community.
I would look to our priesthood to guide us and for all private citizens
interested in the Religio to come together and share their thoughts, practices,
etc. I would like to see MORE guidance and activity, especially from our
pontiffs (who are after all the experts, I suspect!) about the Religio than I've
seen to date.
I tactfully suggest to those not interested in the Religio.....be respectful and
simply delete any such discussions.
Valete,
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
Antonio Grilo wrote:
> Salvete
>
> I'm sending this posting as a private citizen. Stemming from a philosophical
> debate I had with Marcus Cassius Iulianus, our most esteemed Pontifex
> Maximus, he sugested me to write something about the role that Religio can
> play in the life of a non-believer Novi Romani. Maybe this is the beginning
> of such a text.
>
> So, this posting is mainly directed to those who, curious as they are and
> ought to be, ask sometimes if the Novi Romani really believe the Roman Gods
> or the practice of some rites such as that of the Augural art. My personal
> answer is that some of us believe, others do not, and yet others don't know
> whether to believe or not.
> And this obvious answer I think could well have been given by a Roman like
> Cicero, for the theory practice of the Religio Romana does not prevent
> humans to think and find out for themselves - with the help of philosophy -
> the nature of human existence. Indeed, the Gods must necessarily approve of
> him who wonders at the Creation of Nature, constantly doubting and trying to
> discover the occult secrets of existence.
>
> I would like to share a passage of the De Divinatione of Cicero that I found
> specially touching and interesting and which illustrates the harmony between
> Religion and Philosophy as attained by the Religio Romana and its absense of
> dogma. This clearly shows how the Religio is firstly a matter of Romanitas,
> which may (or not) be complemented with unargued, accepted belief. In fact
> the only belief really required is that in one's own Romanitas.
> I'd like also to praise here the piety of some of our most esteemed
> magistrates (I will not say their name in order to keep their privacy
> untouched. Anyway, most of us clearly know who deserves my words) who,
> though identifying themselves with various Religious creeds, keep the flame
> of the Religio alive in everyday of the affairs of our Respublica.
>
> Hope you enjoy this passage.
>
> Speaking of Divination (Cicero was an Augur), in which Cicero did not
> personally believe, Cicero says (De Divinatione, LXXII):
>
> "Then let dreams be rejected along with the rest. Speaking frankly,
> superstition, which is widespread among the nations, has taken advantage of
> human weakness to cast its spell over the mind of almost every man. This
> same view was stated in my treatise De Natura Deorum; and to prove the
> correctness of that view has been the chief aim of the present discussion.
> For I thought that I should be rendering a great service both to myself and
> to my countrymen if I could tear this superstition up by the roots.
> But I want it distinctly understood that the destruction of superstition
> does not mean the destruction of religion. For I consider it the part of
> wisdom to preserve the institutions of our forefathers by retaining their
> sacred rites and ceremonies. Furthermore, the celestial order and the beauty
> of the universe compel me to confess that there is some excellent and
> eternal Being, who deserves the respect and homage of men (...)"
>
> Valete
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Civis
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: ReligioRomana@--------
> Subscribe: ReligioRomana-subscribe@--------
> Unsubscribe: ReligioRomana-unsubscribe@--------
> List owner: ReligioRomana-owner@--------
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/ReligioRomana
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman Days West Notice |
| From: |
Dennis Jay Gould <dennis@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:38:47 -0700 |
|
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Salve,
On October 6-9, in Chino, CA, there will be a Roman Days Event.
This will be the very first Roman Days on the West Coast and will
hopefully create a tradition that we all can participate in! I would
like to encourage all citizens to attend this gathering. If you would
like additional information please
feel free to contact me at my email
addy: alexious@--------
I would also like to recommend that all citizens sign up for the
California/Nevada email list. You can do this at www.onelist.com.
The name of the list is
CaliforniaNovaRoma@--------
FAQ Regarding Roman Days West:
>From the desk of Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Proconsul
Sheridan wrote:
Q. Do I need to bring a fire extinguisher?
A. Yes, one per tent please.
Q. Can we smoke in the camp?
A. It is discouraged. Each smoker is required to provide his own
"sand filled "butt can".
Q. Are there bugs?
A. Of course there are bugs. It's a camping event afterall. Bug
repellent is always a good idea. I also recommend a fly trap for the
inside of your tent.
Q: Do I need to bring stuff to eat off of?
A: Yes. A plate, a bowl and preferred utensils are a good idea if you
plan on eating with the Cocina. Don't forget a drinking vessel!
A couple of good places to find wood plates or other historic looking
"feast gear": Cost Plus, Pier One and similar stores. Check your
local thrift shop as well!
Q: What about chairs?
A: It is highly recommended that you provide something upon which to
rest your weary end. An historic looking chair or stool is
recomended. If you bring a modern sitting device it is expected that
you drape an
historic looking cloth over it to disguise it.
Many of use use wood "Bali" chairs with canvas backs and seats.
Director's chairs are an acceptable second shoice.
Q: Does the Cocina provide beverages?
A: The Cocina provides juice and milk for breakfast, coffee and tea.
Other beverages such as alcohol and soft crinks are self-provided.
Q: How far away is the nearest grocery store?
A: There is a General Store on-site at Merchant's Row. They carry
lots of essentials and personal items as well.
Q: Where is the nearest phone?
A: A pay phone is located about 200 yards from the 9th Legion camp.
Q: I want to teach a class, how do I go about doing that?
A: Contact me as soon as possible!
Q: Do I really really really have to wear a costume?
A: Yes.
Q: I have special dietary needs. Can I still eat with the Cocina?
A: Generally, yes. When the detailed information about the Cocina is
posted you will need to contact the Mater Cocina at that time.
Q: I love to cook! Can I volunteer to cook my specialty?
A: Of course! Please!! Contact me asap with the details.
Q: Are children allowed and welcome?
A: Yes, children of all ages. And there is lots for kids to do,
special programs, crafts etc. The SCA has a children's activities
Autocrat.
Check the web site for GWW IV to get more info.
Q: Can I bring students?
A: In general "yes". For information about school tours write to:
Tim Mendivil-Knapp
E-ma--------t----------------
Q: Can I come for just the day?
A: Yes. Day visitors are welcome. Please, read the info at the GWW IV
web page for info about day tripping, fees and restrictions.
Also: Minors must be accompanied by an adult. Noncustodiual adults
must have a signed waiver from the minor's parent or guardian. Visit
the
GWW IV website for more info about minor's waivers.
Q: Do I still need to wear historic clothes for day trips?
A: You should do you best to do so. To do otherwise detracts from the
ambience. This event is not a show like Ren Faire, the participants
are not their to entertain anyone. A lot of folk in the Roman camp make
a
great effort to create an historic atmosphere. Besides it is one heck
of a lot more fun to look like you belong! Wearing mundane clothes
will make you feel out of place and definitely out of time.
Q: I wear glasses or need sunglasses. Do I need to discard them?
A: No. Nor do you need to set aside any other necessary modern
medical device or item.
Q: What about other modern stuff?
A: You should make an honest best effort to hide mundania as we call
it.
Some examples:
- put your watch in a pouch or a pocket
- drink Coke from a wood mug
- hide a cooler under a cloth
The list can be quite long but you get the general drift.
Remember, we are trying to create an ancient atmosphere. Every little
modernity that's hidden way or set aside for the weekend makes that
sense of "out of time" so much more real!
cc:DFS
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] NR Practical Latin 7: Place Names and Locatives |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:54:47 +0200 |
|
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M. Apollonius Formosanus Civibus Omnibus Novae Romae S.P.D.
In our first lesson we learned how to use informal
greetings:
Salve (sing.) or Salvete (pl.) + ADDRESSEE (Vocative)
And we learned that the Vocative is just like the basic
Nominative except for names ending in -US, and that the
rules for changing those were:
-US > -E [O Marce!]
-IUS > -I [O Apolloni!]
-AUS > -AË (two syllables) [O Nicolae!]
In our second lesson we learned how to make the traditional
salutation in letters:
SENDER (Nominative) + RECIPIENT (Dative) + S.P.D.
We learned how to make the Dative from the Nominative by
these rules:
-A > -AE [To Sulla, Maria: Sullae, ariae]
-US > -O [To Marcus, Merullus: Marco, Merullo]
-OR > -ORI [To Censor, Praetor: Censori, Praetori]
-AUS > -AO (two syllables) [To Nicolaus: Nicolao]
In Lesson 3 we learned how to make Latin plurals.
The most common pluralising formulae were noted as being:
-A > -AE
-US > -US or -ÚS (Use a dictionary to make sure which.)
-UM > -A
-IS > -ES
-ES > -ES or -EI (Use a dictionary to make sure which.)
-U > -UA
(There are some exceptions to the above.)
In Lesson 4 we learned how to make a few more social
expressions:
Salvus sis!, Salvi sitis!, Salva sis!, Salvae sitis!
Gratias (maximas) Tibi ago!
Bonum iter Tibi exopto!
In Lesson 5 we learned how to pronounce the vowels of Latin. It is
now possible to hear the vowel sounds using the sound file with the
Latin materials at the Novaroma List Files at eGroups.
In Lesson 6 we learned how to pronounce the consonants of Latin. We
also learned how to determine the accent by looking at the next to
the last syllable. We saw that if this one is long or if it has two
consonants after it [unless the second is l or r (but not doubled) or
h], then it gets the word stress, and that if it is short, the accent
goes to the third syllable from the end.
Let us now look at your homework. You were to read these texts aloud
with the correct accent. If you have not done it yet, do it now
before looking at the answers. It would be useful to print this out
or copy it by hand and make the marks.
Nova Róma est réspública. Novorómáni Novorómánaeque iam
permultí sunt. Cívés interretialiter inter sé nuntiís électronicís dé
rébus diversís certiórés saepe faciunt.
Latíné loquí nón est difficilissimum - difficilia nón sunt multa. Et
prónuntiátió facillissima omnibus hominibus est.
Philosophus est homó quí nón semper in theátrum it. Malit
philosophárí, nón dé puellís pulchrís cógitáre. Chartá calamóque
multís dé rébus scríbit.
Ciceró nón multum Caesarem amávit. Amásne Cicerónem
Caesaremque?
_____________________
Here are the answers. Check carefully to see if you understood all
the principles for determining stress correctly.
NOva ROma est résPUBlica. NovoróMAni NovorómáNAEque iam
perMULtí sunt. CIvés interretiAliter inter sé NUNtiís élecTRONicís dé
REbus diVERsís certiOrés SAEpe FAciunt.
LaTIné LOquí nón est difficiLISsimum - diffiCIlia nón sunt MULta. Et
prónuntAtió facilLISsima OMnibus hoMINibus est.
PhiLOsophus est HOmó quí nón SEMper in theAtrum it. MAlit
philosoPHArí, nón dé PUELlís PULchrís cógiTAre. CHARtá calaMOque
MULtís dé REbus SCRIbit.
CIceró nón multum CAEsarem aMAvit; aMASne CiceROnem
CaesaREMque?
_________________________________________________
Lesson 7: Place Names and the Locative Case
In Latin there are prepositions like "in" (on or on), but with
cities and small islands and certain other things no preposition is
used to say where something is or happens. Instead, there is a
special case, called the Locative (Casus Locativus).
With all those many city names ending in A its ending is "-AE"
So,
"Romae" means "in Rome".
"Lutetiae" means "in Paris".
"Varsoviae" means "in Warsaw".
"Lipsiae" means "in Leipzig".
"Alexandriae" means "in Alexandria".
"Philadelphiae" means "in Philadelphia."
"Oxoniae" means "in Oxford"
"Bruxellae" means "in Brussels"
Thus we say "Novae Romae Latinum discimus/" We are learning Latin in
Nova Roma. We should *not* say (!) "In Nova Roma..." However, we may
add a word like "urbs" (city) or "civitas [(city) state] and say "in
civitate Nová Romá (Ablative).
But not all city names end in -A. Let us consider some other
possibilities.
-UM, -US and -OS: The Locative ending is -I.
Paesti = in Paestum
Berolini = in Berlin (from Berolinum)
Tarenti = in Tarentum
Londini = in London (from Londinium)
Noveburaci = in New York (from Noveburacum or Novum Eburacum)
Amstelodami = in Amsterdam (from Amstelodamum)
Cairi = in Cairo (Cairus or Cairum - 3 syllables)
-AE and -I: The ending is -IS (These names are grammatically plural.)
Athenis = in Athens (Athenae)
Cumis = in Cumae
Brugis = in Bruges (Brugae)
Delphis = in Delphi
Deli = on Delos
-POLIS: The form (from Greek) is -POLI
Neapoli = in Naples (Neapolis)
Indianapoli = in Indianapolis
Persepoli = in Persepolis
Constantinopoli = in Constantinople
Angelopoli = in Los Angeles (Angelopolis)
There are a very few other possibilities such as
Carthagine = in Carthage (Carthago) (also Carthagini)
Legione = in Léon (Legio)
Traditionally we see these at the end of a classical-form Latin
letter. There is no signature because the sender's name is already in
the salutation at the top. The form is:
Dabam + Place in Locative Case + DATE
"Dabam" means "I dispatched", i.e. turned over to the courier or
travelling friend.
I doubt if we could make the traditional dating very popular in this
day of automatically-dated e-mail. It might be that you would like to
state your geographical location in this way, though, which might
give us all a chance to see how far-flung Nova Roma really is.
And even if you do not do this, very possibly you are interested in
the Latin name of your city in any case. Therefore, if anyone sends
to me a request for the Latin form of his city, state or country in
Latin, I shall try to inform you.
You should not be surprised if there are names for cities and
regions in all parts of the world. Latin was still the language of
science and the Church in the Age of Exploration. And it remains the
language of botany, which must often describe the provenance of a
plant. And many names in the New World were brought from the Old. If
a town is too obscure to have a Latin name, it is normal to create
one following various rather flexible rules based on the form or
meaning of the name.
I can thus discuss my life in Latin with no problem around the
world: Born in Pittsburgum and raised in Mars, Pensilvania, partly
educated in Collinsfordia, Coloratum, and partly in the Insulae
Havaianae, I then lived in Formosa (Taeuania), from which I made
trips from time to time to Siamkiamum (Honcongum), Tokium in Iaponia
and Seulia in Corea. Following that, I came and lived in
Kandersino-Coselia in Polonia, although I shall be moving in February
to Posnania.
In Latin, though, I would have to use the Locative Case for cities
and "in" + Ablative Case for the larger areas and countries.
So:
Pittsburgi, Marte, in Pensilvaniá, Collinsfordiae (Ft. Collins), in
Colorato (Colorado), in Insulis Havaianis (Hawai'ian Islands), in
Formosá/Taeuaniá, Siamkiami/Honcongi, Tokii, In Iaponiá, Seuliae, in
Coreá, Kandersinone-Coseliae (Kedzierzyn-Kozle), in Poloniá,
Posnaniae.
Now, in telling my story I wanted to say "Honolulu on Oahu", but I
have never seen Latin forms for these names. (Although we could treat
them as true Latin words ending in U and say "Honolulú in Oahú" - but
I have never seen that done, despite the fact that it would it would
not be a mistake.) I can therefore use "in" + Ablative and the
additional words urbe (from "urbs", city) and insulá, and then treat
the foreign words like unchangeable forms (indeclinables):
in Urbe Honolulu, in Insulá Oahu.
If something is small for a real city, we can use "oppidum", "town".
But if the result were difficult to pronounce in Latin, it would
often be better to create a truly Latin form. Would you really like
to see "in Urbe Szczecin"? Unless you know Polish, probably not. So
better to use one of the truly Latin forms: Sedinum or Stetinum. And
then you can say "Sedini" or "Stetini" without the preposition "in".
You should be aware that because of the historical depth of Latin,
one town can have several names used at different times by different
people. For example, Frankfurt am Main has been called:
Frabchinofurtum, Franconofurtum (ad Moenum), Franconavada,
Frankenfordia, Frankfordia supra Moenum, Frankwordia, Helenopolis,
and Traiectum Francorum. Today "Francofurtum ad Moenum" is the most
standard and popular form.
Modern Latinists writing to publications have a different custom
about place names. The put the *adjective* of the place after their
names. for example, "M. Attilius Regulus, Romanus", since he actually
lives in Rome. I might put (in a few months) M. Apollonius
Formosanus, Posnaniensis. This is interpreted as a noun (or
adjectival pronoun): M. Attilius Regulus, (the) Roman, and M.
Apollonius Formosanus, (the) Posnanian.
With a relatively few names we make this form by adding "-ANUS"
(feminine "-ANA"). With most *city* names we add "-ENSIS", which can
be either masculine or feminine. E.G. Pittsburgensis, Londinensis,
Vasingthonensis.
For cities ending in "-POLIS", the adjectival form ends in
"-POLITANUS" or feminine "-POLITANA". E.G. Petropolitanus (St.
Petersburger), Neopolitana (female Neopolitan)
In the case of Florentia (Florence/Firenze), the form happens to be
Florentinus/Florentina.
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Here is some homework:
Write the Locative forms of these cities:
Nova Roma
Londinium
Athenae
Neapolis
Lutetia (Paris)
Eboracum (York)
Write the adjective forms of these cities:
Noveboracum
Angelopolis
Honcongum
Cannae
Hierosolyma (Jerusalem)
Alexandria
Answers will be published with the following lesson.
You have not yet learned all possible forms of the adjectival forms,
but you have learned the most important.
Please feel free to send questions to me should doubts occur.
Valéte!
M. Apollonius Formosanus, Kandersinensis
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius
ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
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Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
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