Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Festus...
From:	DrususCornelius@--------
Date:	Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:19:11 EDT


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1014
From:	JustiniaCassia@--------
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:02:43 EDT

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Salvete,

I've done some anthropological research into divination. Successful diviners
are often folk who are particularly good at giving advice (kind of like our
Dear Abby). Being intelligent, perceptive, and intuitive doesn't hurt,
either. Divination usually serves a social function in the societies that
possess it. In his book "Mountain of the Condor" (1985 Waveland Press),
Joseph Bastien describes divination in the Bolivian Andes. When the diviner
says, for example, "The divination says it's not good for you to be here," he
really means "We want you to leave." It allows diviners to give advice or
speak on behalf of the community without either aggrandizing themselves or
being stuck with individual responsibility for unfavorable findings.

E.E. Evans-Pritchard wrote about the sub-Saharan Azande using it like our
"coin toss" for making decisions. While doing research there he used
divination to run his household, and said it worked about as well as any
other system (1937 Witchcraft, Oracles, and Magic among the Azande, Clarendon
Press). In addition to Evans-Pritchard's dated-though-classic work, there
are numerous other works on African divination that relate it to cosmology,
politics, and other such institutions. During the colonial period, diviners
in some areas were largely replaced by church-sanctioned prophets, employing
trance divination rather than traditional methods (Janzen and MacGaffey, 1974
An Anthology of Kongo Religion, Univ of Kansas Publications in Anthropology).

As for whether folk like Sylvia Browne possess real psychic gifts, I can't
say. (What do you think I am, psychic?)

Iustinia Cassia

In a message dated 9/17/0 8:25:22 AM, wicachu@-------- writes:

<< In Mamma Brit's tradition ( tradition being like a church denomination...
Mamma Brit's tradition being Heinz 57) , divination is something done that
has 0 to do with supernatural things. >>


Subject:	[novaroma] truth (formerly Digest 1014)
From:	JustiniaCassia@--------
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:13:40 EDT

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Salvete,

I found the discussion of truth to be interesting considering the extent to
which Nova Roma can be seen as possessing its own truth! In Nova Roma, my
name is Iustinia Cassia and the year is MMDCCLIII. However, if I were to
sign and date my next rent check thusly, neither my landlord nor our banks
would honor it. I might tell them that Nova Roma uses such conventions to
express things that are important to us (our gens, our history), and I might
even get them to admit that yes, indeed, it is 2,753 years since the founding
of Rome, but I'm sure they will still refuse my check as containing
inaccurate information. I think this is closer to the concept of multiple
truths than the idea that 2 plus 2 is 4 for me but 5 for someone else.

As for the room being 78 degrees Fahrenheit, I think what Iona Sententiosa
Britaega was getting at is that some things are not a matter of objective
truth, but of opinion. It is 78 degrees Fahrenheit for all, but whether that
temperature is too hot or too cold is subjective. The same with the
questions, "Is there enough garum in this dish?" and "Isn't that tunica a
pretty color?"

As for applying this to divinity, as an anthropologist I'd say it is true
that people view divinity through the lens of culture, and it can do more
harm than good to try to rip one religion out and force another in. While
Ockham's Razor has been invoked to reduce polytheism to monotheism, it is
usually used to remove ANY reference to deity from an argument (for example,
creationism vs. evolution). But before we abandon our polytheistic Religio
(the end result of accepting this idea), it would serve us well to examine
its role, purpose, and meaning.

Iustinia Cassia

In a message dated 9/17/0 8:25:22 AM, wicachu@-------- writes:

<< << We do not "create" truth. We possess knowledge, or truth, when our
thoughts coincide with how things actually are. The old over-used adage
that
"what is true for you may not be true for someone else" is error. If there
are no gods at all, or if there are more than one, then my belief in a
single
deity is wrong. There is no "pluralism" of truth about it! The subjectivist
notion that truth is relative and that one belief is as good as another is
perhaps the lowest level to which Western Civilization has fallen. While
the
holding of diverse beliefs may be protected under civil law, it is absurd to
think that beliefs are all equal in worth or truth.
>>
May I submit to you... my parents : >>


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN: Joint Edicta - Establishment of the Limes Cooperation
From:	Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:30:36 +0200

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Caius Flavius Diocletianus, Legatus Germaniae, Quiritibus S.P.D.

The following joint edicta are published due to the authority given to
me by Propraetor Marcus Marcius Rex during his absence and due to an
arrangement between the Provinces of Pannonia and Germania.

=== Edicta===

These are joint edicta propraetoricia enacted by Alexander Iulius Caesar

Probus Macedonicus, Propraetor Pannoniae and Marcus Marcius Rex,
Propraetor
Germaniae.

I. A co-operation between the provinces of Pannonia and Germania is
hereby
established.

II. The co-operation is not restricted in its scope of application but
shall cover in particular the following fields:
a) Provincial infrastructure (e.g. Web-Site development)
b) Development of common provincial administrative standards
c) Organisation of conferences and meetings
d) Co-ordination of research projects of common interest

III. The co-operation shall be implemented by all means necessary and
available in an internet-environment. In particular a restricted
e-mail-list shall be
established for this purpose. A scriba shall be responsible for its
moderation. Caius Flavius Diocletianus is hereby appointed to this
office
of scriba.

IV. The co-operation is open to all provinces of Nova Roma which have
been
established by Senatus Consultum. The respective provincial governor may

join the co-operation by enactment of an edictum making the co-operation

applicable in the respective province.

V. Any disputes arising out of the co-operation shall be settled by way
of
mediation. A mediator has to be agreed upon by all affected governors.

Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonicus Marcus Marcius Rex
Propraetor Pannoniae
Propraetor Germaniae


Subject:	[novaroma] A Few Thoughts on Religion and Divination
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:58:01 +0100

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Salvete Feste el at

Firstly, I'd like to stress that in my opinion, the most important part of
Cicero's text for us Novi Romani is the following:
"But I want it distinctly understood that the destruction of superstition
does not mean the destruction of religion. For I consider it the part of
wisdom to preserve the institutions of our forefathers by retaining their
sacred rites and ceremonies. Furthermore, the celestial order and the beauty
of the universe compel me to confess that there is some excellent and
eternal Being, who deserves the respect and homage of men (...)"

While a few ancient philosophers did not believe any God (such as some
Epicureans), the majority believed 1 God. But this majority believed MANY
Gods at the same time. Imagine a cake. I belive the 1 cake, but I also
believe that the cake might be partitioned in several pieces, and I can eat
only some of the pieces and leave the rest. In the same way, the majority of
philosophers admitted the existence of 1 God. But they also accepted the
idea of many, for the many form the several different aspects of the 1.
Anyway, I stress again that "I consider it the part of wisdom to preserve
the institutions of our forefathers by retaining their sacred rites and
ceremonies", and in this way, I consider that all Romans of Nova Roma have
the duty to participate in the sacred rites and ceremonies, for only in this
way we can consider ourselves heirs of their institutions.

As to credo's, I think that the world would be better if we took the
following perspective:
"And if I err in my belief that the souls of men are immortal, I gladly err,
nor do I wish this error which gives me pleasure to be wrested from me while
I live. But if when dead I am going to be without sensation (as some petty
philosophers think), then I have no fear that these seers, when they are
dead, will have the laugh on me!"

This passage states two things:
1) Each of us has the right to believe whatever we want, and mainly those
beliefs which make us happier.
2) We should always recognise that a credo is nothing but a credo... It can
be wrong, and as such we should also consider our speculations and the
speculations of others to be equally valid.

As to your credo in particular, Feste, whatever it might be, I would very
much love that it did not prevent you from preserving the sacred rites and
ceremonies of your Roman forefathers, for it is the part of wisdom to be
able to separate Philosophy, Credo and Legacy. In Philosophy you attain
conclusions through reasoning starting from doubt, and most of the time if
you are a real philosopher, you doubt more often than you reach absolute
conclusions. The Credo is an absolute conclusion you attain not from
reasoning, but from passion. With Legacy you attain conclusions as
transmitted by your forefathers, not from reasoning or passion. Lrgacy is
thus equivalent to 'Religio' in the Roman sense of the word.
In my opinion these three things can live in harmony. You should always
employ Philosophy to doubt and direct you to choose your Credo. You should
employ Credo to face your life and your death with serenity. Finally you
should honour the Legacy of your Roman forefathers, for it is for this
Legacy that you can be called a Roman citizen, and because in the
preservation of the Religio resides the secret of Rome's and other nations'
(e.g. Greek) eternity.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Camp Haltern
From:	Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:58:44 +0200

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Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Yesterday I visited the westfalian roman museum in Haltern, near
Recklinghausen/Castrop-Rauxel, in Germany. Haltern lays at the Lippe
river. The Lippe river was used as a way into Germania by roman armies
under Drusus, Varus and Germanicus. Along the Lippe you can find some
roman camps, the biggest are:

Dorsten-Holsterhausen
Haltern
Bergkamen-Oberaden
Delbr�ck-Anreppen

In Haltern were some roman camps: On the Annaberg laid a castellum, it�s
dates are unknown. Ca. 1,4 km away are the remainings of a roman
military base. This base was used several years until the Varus War 9
CE.

The main camp (560m x 380m) had barracks made by wood and bricks and was
a site of the roman military administration in Germania. On the same
place there was a roman field camp (614m x 560m), perhaps a summer camp.
There was place for 2 legions. On the Lippe shore there was a naval
base.

The museum itself is not very big, but has some very interesting
exponates. The most impressive ones are:

- a lead block with a stamp of the Legio XIX (destructed 9 CE during the
varian desaster)
- a hoard with roman coins, 185 denarii and 1 aureus, perhaps the
one-years-salary of a miles legionis
- roman tools
- roman pottery products
- a diorama model of the whole permanent camp, ca. 3 x 4m
- a whole legion reconstructed by using small-scale model soldiers,
complete with staff and equites legiones (very impressive)
- roman weapons and pila muralia
- a reconstructed tent for a contubernium of 8 soldiers, used by Marcus
Junkelmann and his fellows during their march from Verona to Augsburg
1986
- reconstructed roman marching baggage, ready to use (you can try it out
- 20 kg!)

Before the museum is a reconstructed rampart and ditch, but without pila
muralia.

If some of you have the chance to visit Germany, he should also try to
visit this very interesting museum. I made some photos, when they are
developed I will put some of them onto the pinacotheca page of the
Germania website.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus


Subject:	[novaroma] Of Truth
From:	"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:07:51 +0100

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Salutem

Once upon a time, during the Claudian invasion of Britannia, somewhere up in Catuvellauni country, there were three blind beggar men sitting by the roadside outside a little British village while a Roman army convoy trudged, creaked and clanked past. The army convoy included a couple or three elephants.

The beggars' ears were tuned by long experience to identify different kinds of footsteps, cart and chariot wheels, horses... but the sounds of the pachyderm heavy cavalry approaching were something entirely new to them. As the elephants slowly plodded past, the beggars reached out and touched them.

One man felt an elephant's trunk, and thought: "This creature is lithe and strong, like a huge serpent." Another ran his hands over the elephant's hairy flanks, and thought: "It is round, and vast, like a heavy boulder." The third had his hands on one of the beast's legs, and concluded: "It is tall, like the trunk of a tree." Of course, they had to ask what it was.

"Beth mae?" they asked, of nobody in particular.

The driver leaned down and told them it was a Quidappelatushocvicus.

The blind Brits were impressed. Big, wierd name for a big, wierd animal. As it should be. They asked a couple more times just to make sure they got it right so they could tell everybody else.

The column moved on, leaving the blind beggar men arguing ever more vehemently about the nature of the beast, each had felt with his own hands.

The decurion of the elephant detachment asked the lead driver if he'd managed to find out the name of the village they'd just gone through.

"Bethmae", he said. "The locals seemed glad to see us, didn't they?"

Bene valete,

Vado.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman TV Show
From:	"Gaius Tullius" <nr_cicero@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:30:15 -0000

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Salvete omnes,

Here is an article that I am sure you will find interesting.

From:
"http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000908/re/tv_milch_dc_1.html"

__________________________________________
Friday September 8 5:22 AM ET
'NYPD Blue's' Milch Develops Roman Cop
Show

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Television writer-producer David Milch, the
creative force behind the police drama ``NYPD Blue'' for seven
years,
is
working with DreamWorks to develop a TV cop show set in ancient Rome,
Daily Variety reported on Friday.

ABC, NBC and Fox all have expressed serious interest in the project,
and
high-profile filmmaker Ridley Scott, who directed the summer
DreamWorks
hit ``Gladiator,'' would likely direct a two-hour pilot for the
show,
the
entertainment trade paper said.

DreamWorks Pictures co-president Walter Parkes, an executive
producer
of
``Gladiator,'' brought the idea for a Roman-based police series to
Milch, his
longtime friend, Variety said.

Milch, who stepped aside earlier this year as day-to-day supervisor
of ``NYPD Blue'' to pursue other projects,
seized on the Parkes' concept and began sketching a broad outline of
characters and story lines the new show
could explore, Variety said.

The series would be produced jointly by DreamWorks and Paramount
Network Television, where Milch
signed a $15 million, four-year development deal just over a year
ago, the paper said.

While sparked by the commercial success of ``Gladiator,'' which has
grossed more than $183 million in North
America to rank as this summer's second-biggest movie release, the
TV
project is not a sequel or spinoff of the
film that starred Russell Crowe, Variety said.

Instead, the show will take place during the reign of Nero in 65
A.D., nearly a century before ``Gladiator,''
focusing on the head of the Urban Cohort, the Roman police force
assigned to keep the city streets safe, the
paper said. Stories will combine the traditional aspects of a cop
show with the unconventional backdrop of
ancient Rome.

Network insiders told Variety that Paramount, a unit of Viacom
(NYSE:VIA - news), is asking TV networks
for a 13-episode commitment, with a huge license fee of $1.8 million
per episode.

Milch is certainly no stranger to the modern police TV genre, having
won two Emmys as a writer and producer
on ``NYPD Blue'' and an Emmy as a writer for the 1980s cop drama
``Hill Street Blues.''

_______________________________________________

G.T Cicero


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:33:16 -0000

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The blessed default response setting did it again. }:-)

Waht I said before was something like:
This sounds good. But expect to hear claims of "rip-off" from
Lindsey
Davis fans, and aybe law-critters.

C. Aelius Ericius.

--- In novaroma@--------, "Gaius Tullius" <nr_cicero@h...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Here is an article that I am sure you will find interesting.
>
> From:
> "http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000908/re/tv_milch_dc_1.html"
>
> __________________________________________
> Friday September 8 5:22 AM ET
> 'NYPD Blue's' Milch Develops Roman Cop
> Show
>
> LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Television writer-producer David Milch, the
> creative force behind the police drama ``NYPD Blue'' for seven
> years,
> is
> working with DreamWorks to develop a TV cop show set in ancient
Rome,
> Daily Variety reported on Friday.
>
> ABC, NBC and Fox all have expressed serious interest in the
project,
> and
> high-profile filmmaker Ridley Scott, who directed the summer
> DreamWorks
> hit ``Gladiator,'' would likely direct a two-hour pilot for the
> show,
> the
> entertainment trade paper said.
>
> DreamWorks Pictures co-president Walter Parkes, an executive
> producer
> of
> ``Gladiator,'' brought the idea for a Roman-based police series to
> Milch, his
> longtime friend, Variety said.
>
> Milch, who stepped aside earlier this year as day-to-day
supervisor
> of ``NYPD Blue'' to pursue other projects,
> seized on the Parkes' concept and began sketching a broad outline
of
> characters and story lines the new show
> could explore, Variety said.
>
> The series would be produced jointly by DreamWorks and Paramount
> Network Television, where Milch
> signed a $15 million, four-year development deal just over a year
> ago, the paper said.
>
> While sparked by the commercial success of ``Gladiator,'' which
has
> grossed more than $183 million in North
> America to rank as this summer's second-biggest movie release, the
> TV
> project is not a sequel or spinoff of the
> film that starred Russell Crowe, Variety said.
>
> Instead, the show will take place during the reign of Nero in 65
> A.D., nearly a century before ``Gladiator,''
> focusing on the head of the Urban Cohort, the Roman police force
> assigned to keep the city streets safe, the
> paper said. Stories will combine the traditional aspects of a cop
> show with the unconventional backdrop of
> ancient Rome.
>
> Network insiders told Variety that Paramount, a unit of Viacom
> (NYSE:VIA - news), is asking TV networks
> for a 13-episode commitment, with a huge license fee of $1.8
million
> per episode.
>
> Milch is certainly no stranger to the modern police TV genre,
having
> won two Emmys as a writer and producer
> on ``NYPD Blue'' and an Emmy as a writer for the 1980s cop drama
> ``Hill Street Blues.''
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> G.T Cicero


Subject:	Fwd: [novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	StarVVreck@--------
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:07:07 EDT


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	StarVVreck@--------
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:23:05 EDT

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I would definately like to see some follow-ups on this story. They said
"Milch" signed a 4 year development deal? That still leaves it pretty foggy
as to when the series should appear on Television.

In a message dated 9/18/00 4:41:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
razenna@-------- writes:

<< --- In novaroma@--------, "Gaius Tullius" <nr_cicero@h...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Here is an article that I am sure you will find interesting.
>
> From:
> "http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000908/re/tv_milch_dc_1.html" >>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:17:19 -0700