Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:24:07 -0000


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:54:10 -0500 (CDT)


Subject:	[novaroma] Apology to L Equitius Cincinnatus
From:	Marius Fimbria <aurelianus@-------->
Date:	Date header was inserted by mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net

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L. Marius Fimbria Quiritibus S.P.D.

I have been asked by the Nova Roman Senate to make public and private
apology to Senator and Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. It has
become apparent that he was aggrieved and deeply offended by an April
Fool's joke of mine which he felt diminished his dignitas and that of
the Senatorial and Religious offices he then held. I feel that this is
a reasonable request, and I am quite willing to accede to the desire of
the Senate and grant him the public apology, as it evidently is very
important to him. (My private apology he has already received.)

I regret having offended him, and even more that either Senatorial or
Pontifical dignity might have seemed impugned by my words or actions.
My intent at the time was satirical and not malicious, for I am not a
malicious person except under extreme provocation, but I am quite
fun-loving by nature. I expected that my parody of Cincinnatus would
be judged by its intent, not by its effect. Had I known that it would
prove so upsetting, I would assuredly have refrained from what at the
time I considered to be merely a playful prank. It has never been any
part of my desire to torment or harm anyone in Nova Roma, and that my
attempt at humor was interpreted this way is a thing for which I am
deeply sorry.

If Senator Cincinnatus or any others happen to feel that anything I
said or did went beyond the bounds of good taste, then I apologise for
that as well.

In the course of my jest I utilized the chat-room handle 'Cincinnatus',
it not having been previously claimed. Its use was not intended to
defraud anyone, and it was used only in the sense that an actor might
take on a different name to play a different part. I have since turned
the handle over to Lucius Equitius; and I do not intend to engage in
any further instances of this type of humor in Nova Roma inasmuch as it
was so seriously misunderstood the first time, and caused offense to a
man who was once my friend in a way and to a degree that I could not
have anticipated. For that too I am truly sorry.

Though I, like several other chatroom regulars, have been known to use
more than one chat handle, I have not used any other handles that would
have led anyone to believe that I was any other Citizen of Nova Roma.
Handles I *have* used include 'MariusFimbria' (my Nova Roman name);
'MariusAurelianus' (my civilian Roman name); and 'LegionSix' (the
ancient Legion, Legio VI Victrix, to which I owe fealty). In all cases
I have cross-referenced these to 'MariusFimbria', so that my Taverna
companions might know that it was still me. Let this message
serve as public notice that all three of these handles are mine, lest
anyone was not already aware of it.

In amicitia et fides,
***********************************************************
Lucius Marius Fimbria |>[SPQR]<|
<aurelianus@--------> |\=/|
Storyteller, Roleplayer Emeritus, ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
Historical Re-Creationist `\*/, `` }`^~`,,, \ \
and Citizen of Rome ``=.\ (__==\_ /\ }
"Quae narravi, nullo modo negabo (That's | | / )\ \| /
my Story, and I'm sticking to it)" _|_| / _/_| /`(
-- Latin for All Occasions /./..=' /./..'


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Roman TV Show
From:	<gmvick32@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:09:35 -0600


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days West Cancelled
From:	contexa@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:32:39 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days West
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:14:15 -0700


Subject:	[novaroma] Addendum to RDW - Ordo Equaestor
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:18:23 -0700


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Days West
From:	Lykaion1@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:19:08 EDT


Subject:	[novaroma] New poll for novaroma
From:	novaroma@--------
Date:	19 Sep 2000 05:48:32 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma
From:	novaroma@--------
Date:	19 Sep 2000 07:32:58 -0000


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Poll results for novaroma
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:37:08 -0700


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Camp Haltern
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:48:41 GMT

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Salve Cai Flavi:

Thanks for sharing this very interesting information; I look forward to
seeing the photos.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo

>From: Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@-------->
>To: NovaRoma@--------, NovaRomaVizantia@--------,
>"SodalitasMilitarium@--------" <SodalitasMilitarium@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Roman Camp Haltern
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:58:44 +0200
>
>Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>Yesterday I visited the westfalian roman museum in Haltern, near
>Recklinghausen/Castrop-Rauxel, in Germany. Haltern lays at the Lippe
>river. The Lippe river was used as a way into Germania by roman armies
>under Drusus, Varus and Germanicus. Along the Lippe you can find some
>roman camps, the biggest are:
>
>Dorsten-Holsterhausen
>Haltern
>Bergkamen-Oberaden
>Delbr�ck-Anreppen
>
>In Haltern were some roman camps: On the Annaberg laid a castellum, it�s
>dates are unknown. Ca. 1,4 km away are the remainings of a roman
>military base. This base was used several years until the Varus War 9
>CE.
>
>The main camp (560m x 380m) had barracks made by wood and bricks and was
>a site of the roman military administration in Germania. On the same
>place there was a roman field camp (614m x 560m), perhaps a summer camp.
>There was place for 2 legions. On the Lippe shore there was a naval
>base.
>
>The museum itself is not very big, but has some very interesting
>exponates. The most impressive ones are:
>
>- a lead block with a stamp of the Legio XIX (destructed 9 CE during the
>varian desaster)
>- a hoard with roman coins, 185 denarii and 1 aureus, perhaps the
>one-years-salary of a miles legionis
>- roman tools
>- roman pottery products
>- a diorama model of the whole permanent camp, ca. 3 x 4m
>- a whole legion reconstructed by using small-scale model soldiers,
>complete with staff and equites legiones (very impressive)
>- roman weapons and pila muralia
>- a reconstructed tent for a contubernium of 8 soldiers, used by Marcus
>Junkelmann and his fellows during their march from Verona to Augsburg
>1986
>- reconstructed roman marching baggage, ready to use (you can try it out
>- 20 kg!)
>
>Before the museum is a reconstructed rampart and ditch, but without pila
>muralia.
>
>If some of you have the chance to visit Germany, he should also try to
>visit this very interesting museum. I made some photos, when they are
>developed I will put some of them onto the pinacotheca page of the
>Germania website.
>
>Valete
>Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
>

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Subject:	Pro Senatore; Was Re: [novaroma] New poll for novaroma
From:	<gmvick32@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:07:53 -0600

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Salvete, Omnes:

May I just say, as a NON-Senator, I think this is an outragous question,
presumably drawn incorrectly from American politics. We get to find out in
the U.S. how Senator and members of the house vote on issues as a check
against officials that the people elect. (I'm only speaking to U.S. system
here because I don't know how it works in other countries.)

However, in Nova Roma, we don't elect Senators. Senators get chosen by the
Senate by meeting certain criteria of service and then being nominated from
within. We are trying to recreate the spirit if not the letter of the Roman
Senate, not a modern (e.g., U.S.) senate. In Roma Antiqua the people
didn't elect the Senate. The Senate didn't answer to the people. They were
chosen by the Senate after having served a required political path of
service and also having the appropriate money to meet Senate criteria. To
the extent that the Senate was answerable to the people, it was answerable
in that individual Senators wanted and needed to continue public service and
might also run for elected positions. The nature of the Senate itself
wasn't as a publicly accountable body.

If you want to measure how officials vote on things, you want to measure how
the popularly elected officials vote. That will help you know which
officials not to vote for again.

S.P.Q.R., baby, S.P.Q.R. There's a reason the Senate is separated out from
the people in that ancient motto, and it's not because the Senate is a
subset comprised from and answerable to the people.

Inside Nova Roma politics, I urge you to set aside thinking like a modern.
This isn't the point of participating in Nova Roma. The point is to
recreate, to the extent possible, the Roman republican mode of governance.
The larger experience of Nova Roma and the understanding into the ancient
mindset is the important thing....the specifics of what happens (like
individual votes), is almost irrelevant to the experiment.

Valete,
Livia Cornelia Aurelia

novaroma@-------- wrote:

>
> Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the novaroma
> group:
>
> When the senate takes a vote on some
> issue, should the individual senators
> be identified with how he or she voted?
>
> o Yes
> o No
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://www.egroups.com/polls/novaroma
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN: Joint Edicta (etc.)
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:59:27 -0700 (PDT)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Days West
From:	<gmvick32@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:30:57 -0600

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Salve, Feste.

This is more than a "simple social get-together". What many people don't
realize is that the group originating the Roman Days West is the 9th Legion, a
formal group of some long standing that resides within the SCA. They have set
up a Roman-style camp at the Great Western War for several years running. For
the past two years, they've hosted Nova Roma for "Roman Days West".

Any attendance by non-legionnaires at this year's Nova Roma was as a guest of
the 9th Legion. The 9th Legion is apparently breaking up. No 9th Legion, no
military camp to host the Nova Romans at during the Great Western War.

At any rate, political strife happens in any human organization, whether it be
a formally recognized government or a social group of military reenacters.
That it's happening to the 9th Legion as a social group makes it no less
difficult for its members.

As for the citizens' Roman Days West, I understand we are scrambling to regroup
and move forward with a different sort of gathering.

My regards go out to the members of the 9th Legion and to Sheridan -- who has
worked very hard in putting together Roman Days West and must feel the loss of
this more keenly than we can appreciate. My best wishes that your Fraternitas
and Amicitas survive and be restored.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia
Rogator
Legatus, Military Engineering and Cartography

> A simple social get-together cancelled, because of "internal politics" of a
> mere reenactor group???
>
> "Internal politics"---euphemism for little people taking themselves too
> seriously.
>
> Gaius Lupinius Festus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New poll for novaroma
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:33:48 -0000


Subject:	Re: Pro Senatore; Was Re: [novaroma] New poll for novaroma
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:44:19 US/Central

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T Labienus Livia Cornelia Omnibusque S P D

Note that I'm primarily interested in the larger issues that your post brought
up, Livia, and that I mostly agree with what you wrote.

> May I just say, as a NON-Senator, I think this is an outragous question,
> presumably drawn incorrectly from American politics.

I don't think I'd call it "outrageous" personally. It may be misguided, but I
don't think so. It's just a symptom of an ongoing tension between modernity
and recreation, and, as long as we remain aware of that tension and its
implications, it is the kind of question we ought to be asking ourselves.

> However, in Nova Roma, we don't elect Senators.

Actually, we do to a degree. Everyone elected to the office of praetor,
consul, or censor is automatically included in the Senate, regardless of the
Senate's opinion on the matter. That said, your point is still a valid one in
that Senatores are never put forth for re-election, are not all elected, and
were not accountable to the people through any legitimate means.

As an aside, do any of our more knowledgeable cives know if the Senate's doors
remained open when a division was being taken? If so, then nothing would have
stopped cives from keeping track of an individual Senator's votes. I tend to
doubt that anyone did so, however, as it probably wouldn't have occurred to
anyone and wouldn't have been particularly useful even if it did.

> Inside Nova Roma politics, I urge you to set aside thinking like a modern.
> This isn't the point of participating in Nova Roma.� The point is to
> recreate, to the extent possible, the Roman republican mode of governance.

Actually, I'd argue that the point of participating in Nova Roma is to
recreate, to the extent possible, the culture of ancient Rome. We are, after
all, "more than a historical recreation society." And so, we will constantly
face a tension between modern and ancient sensibilities. Due to that tension,
I'd reword your statement to read, "The point of Nova Roman politics is to
recreate, to the extent that it is both reasonable and morally and ethically
acceptable to do so, the Roman republican mode of governance."

It behooves us to discuss to what degree our modern ideas of correct governance
should guide the evolution of our semi-historical government. We have already
included women in political activities, banned slavery, and taken an almost
universal stance against animal sacrifice. Some here have expressed a
preference for an entirely modern view of sexuality. The list of differences,
both institutional and otherwise, between Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua goes on.

It is entirely possible that, in twenty years or so, we will be as numerous and
active as the SCA. Small changes in course now can lead to very large changes
in our destination later. Let us carefully consider where we want to end up.

Valete


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New poll for novaroma
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:00:57 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma
From:	novaroma@--------
Date:	19 Sep 2000 19:06:00 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Poll results for novaroma
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:54:35 -0000

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ROFLAF!
A several hour poll. Posted by a person who does not even speak out
about it. All very informative about the festus. You were the one
who
started the fascist thread, weren't you, Feste? LOL.

C. Aelius Ericius.

--- In novaroma@--------, novaroma@-------- wrote:
>
> The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
> final results:
>
>
> POLL QUESTION: Should Senate topics be displayed daily
> by the Tribunes to the citizens of Nova
> Roma?
>
> CHOICES AND RESULTS
> - Absolutly Not, 4 votes, 7.55%
> - Definitly, 32 votes, 60.38%
> - Perhaps, if better explained, 15 votes, 28.30%
> - Not likely, 2 votes, 3.77%
>
>
>
> For more information about this group, please visit
> http://www.egroups.com/group/novaroma
>
> For help with eGroups, please visit
> http://www.egroups.com/help


Subject:	[novaroma] Sodalitas Latinitatis
From:	"C Marius Merullus" <c_marius_m@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:01:41 -0400

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Salvete

Sodalitas Latinitatis Novae Romae is open to new members. Our current
projects include translation of the Nova Roma website into Latin,
translation of the FAQ's of an organization called WitchVox into Latin, and
preparation of free online Latin courses.

If you love the Latin language and are looking for a forum to express
yourself in it, or would be interested in contributing your Latin skills to
ongoing projects like the ones mentioned above, please take a look at our
open e-mail list, latinitas, at www.egroups.com.

If you would like to join us, please send an e-mail to me at
c_marius_m@-------- with your legal name, Roman name, and e-mail
address, with 'Sodalitas Latinitatis' in the subject line. Any additional
information that you would like to offer about your background and interests
in Latin is welcome but not required.

Citizenship in Nova Roma is not required to join us.

Valete

C Marius Merullus
Triumvir Sodalitatis Latinitatis


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Poll results for novaroma
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:12:57 -0700

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Ave!

Sorry folks but I think this needs to be posted here...

Ericius, I think that was in poor taste. I think Festus heard your
disagreement as well as mine.

Nor did he start the thread of Fascism...he posted the link to the American
Fascist party becuase they had pics of Roman Related stuff on their site.
It was the Europeans, who are extremly touchy on the subject (Just as us
Jews are.) That brought the thread to a controverisal subjects.

And, also, it was P. Cassia who said to make the thread Roman
related....thus Festus complied with our List Moderator.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Razenna wrote:

>
> ROFLAF!
> A several hour poll. Posted by a person who does not even speak out
> about it. All very informative about the festus. You were the one
> who
> started the fascist thread, weren't you, Feste? LOL.
>
> C. Aelius Ericius.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, novaroma@-------- wrote:
> >
> > The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
> > final results:
> >
> >
> > POLL QUESTION: Should Senate topics be displayed daily
> > by the Tribunes to the citizens of Nova
> > Roma?
> >
> > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > - Absolutly Not, 4 votes, 7.55%
> > - Definitly, 32 votes, 60.38%
> > - Perhaps, if better explained, 15 votes, 28.30%
> > - Not likely, 2 votes, 3.77%
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information about this group, please visit
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/novaroma
> >
> > For help with eGroups, please visit
> > http://www.egroups.com/help


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Poll results for novaroma
From:	Lykaion1@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:12:19 EDT


Subject:	[novaroma] Poll Not Closed {To Ericius}
From:	Lykaion1@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:19:50 EDT


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Beekeeping
From:	"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:10:57 -0400

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Salvete omnes! Came across this on another list (Archaeology Institute of
America) and maybe some of you in the UK can go to this?

jane
S. Ambrosia Fulvia

Nick Eiteljorg wrote:

> AIA LIST DIGEST Conferences 00-01-f-021
>
> Date: Friday, September 15, 2000
> Messages included: 1
> Subjects: #1: AEGEANET bee-keeping (34 lines)
>
> Unless marked as originating from the AIA, messages neither represent
> Institute pronouncements nor imply Institute support or endorsement.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:10:45 -0700
> From: "Lucia Nixon" <lucia.nixon@-------->
> Subject: #1: AEGEANET bee-keeping (34 lines)
>
> This is an abbreviated message. For details, please contact the correspondent
> directly. -- ed.
>
> BEE-KEEPING IN THE GRAECO-ROMAN WORLD
> Tuesday 7 November, 2000
> 2.15-7.00 p.m.
> Talbot Hall, Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford
>
> This half-day conference will have two parts: the first will present
> archaeological evidence for bee-keeping (including material from
> Sphakia, SW Crete, which through the Sphakia Survey has produced one
> of the best assemblages of finds from the ancient world, and from
> Isthmia); the second will be a lecture at 5.00 p.m. by Dr Eva Crane,
> the leading authority on world bee-keeping, on 'The transmission of
> bee-keeping round the ancient Mediterranean'. Principal
> participants will include: Eva Crane, Jane Francis, John Ellis
> Jones, Lucia Nixon, Nicholas Purcell and Simon Price. There will
> also be a small display of bee-keeping artefacts.
>
> People are invited to come to the whole conference, or just to the
> lecture at 5.00 p.m. There will be drinks after the lecture.
>
> For further information contact Lucia Nixon
> (lucia.nixon@--------) or Simon Price
> (simon.price@--------).
>
> Ms L.F. Nixon
> Magdalen College
> Oxford, U.K.
> OX1 4AU
>
> tel. +44-1865-276117
>
> fax +44-1865-276094
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of AIA LIST DIGEST Conferences 00-01-f-021
> ***********************************


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1016
From:	"Lucius" <vergil@-------->
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:28:46 -0400

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Salvete, Quirites

Message: 12
Date: Date header was inserted by mta2.rcsntx.swbell.net
From: Marius Fimbria <aurelianus@-------->
Subject: Apology to L Equitius Cincinnatus

L. Marius Fimbria Quiritibus S.P.D.

I have been asked by the Nova Roman Senate to make public and private
apology to Senator and Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus. It has
become apparent that he was aggrieved and deeply offended by an April
Fool's joke of mine which he felt diminished his dignitas and that of
the Senatorial and Religious offices he then held. I feel that this is
a reasonable request, and I am quite willing to accede to the desire of
the Senate and grant him the public apology, as it evidently is very
important to him. (My private apology he has already received.)
<SNIP>

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: Quite the contrary, I made it VERY clear that I
was NOT interested in ANY apology, public or private. An "apology" that has
to be coerced has absolutely no meaning to me. In fact it was Censor L
Cornelius Sulla who insisted on an 'apology'. I did initially suggest that
you should apologize to my official positions but I reconsidered.

As for the rest of the "apology", ("My intent at the time was satirical and
not malicious" and "It has never been any part of my desire to torment or
harm anyone in Nova Roma,") as the "God of Bluntness" I know better after
having had a "2x4" taken over the head like "a mule". Reading this so called
'apology' the Senate should easily see why I had no interest in it. Being
the clever person she is Fimbria managed to turn her Actions against me into
her martyrdom. The only truly honest thing in her little speech is the fact
that she did turn over the "Cincinnatus" chatroom handle to me as a part of
the terms of her return to citizenship should she choose. So no, Fimbria, an
apology from you is not at all important to me.

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Why The Poll?
From:	Lykaion1@--------
Date:	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:58:40 EDT