| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Germanic view of Time? |
| From: |
Megas-Robinson <amgunn@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:24:46 -0500 |
|
Wæs þu Vado Hal!
Venator here:
Nick Ford wrote:
>
> Venator et alibus amicis salutem
>
> What Venator tossed into the waters yesterday has caused me to see some intriguing ripples...
>
> Language expresses thought, and thought is in turn conditioned by language.
>
> Another heathen friend of mine (in Britannia) who is a linguistics graduate, once observed to me that the Germanic
> languages - of which English is one - reveal a different traditional, cultural attitude to time from that evinced by
> Latin-derived languages..
>
> (snip discusion of the lack of a future tense in Germanic languages)
>
> So there you have it, populari - the 'civilized' Graeco-Romans of Southern and Eastern Europe would seem to have a
> fatalistic way of expressing future events, while the 'barbari' of Northern and Western Europe seem to believe in a
> mutable future. Or, it seems that the Latins have a cultural mindset which regards the future as knowable, while the
> Northerners don't.
>
> Avete
>
> Vado (student of many things, a Master in none).
>
I have had this discussion with Heathens this side of the Pond.
Gárman Lord, Cyning (King) of the Winlandish Ricé (Vinland Kingdom) of Théodish Geleifa (Tribal Belief, his particular
ethos is Anglo-Saxon), writes of this lack of a true future tense and how English and other Germanic tongues get the use
of a sort of future tense by using compound verbs, such as in your examples.
There does exist a belief, though in "That Which is Obligated to Happen," from the sheer weight of Past Events: the sun
rises in the east because the earth was set spinning just so, the seasons proceed due to a wobble in the spin, and such
like. The deeds of men, on the other hand, are not pre-determined, as every choice we make changes what we shall do as
a result.
Agreed that this is a good discussion.
In Friþ under Troth - Venator Septentrionalis
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Greetings from a relative New Comer |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 04:52:07 -0500 |
|
28 Sept 2000
Salve Gaia Natalina Casca
On my own behalf I welcome you to our Republic, and I hope you find what it
is you seek.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
----- Original Message -----
From: <blackuni@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Greetings from a relative New Comer
> Hello all, I am Gaia Natalina Casca. I've been a member for a while,
> but have just gotten my life all straightened out to allow me a
> little
> bit of time to participate.
>
> I just thought I'd take a moment and introduce myself...I'll bee
> around!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Germanic view of Time? |
| From: |
Primus Fabius <primusfabius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 04:24:51 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Ave,
Il Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:52:53 +0100, Nick Ford ha scritto:
> So there you have it, populari - the 'civilized' Graeco-Romans of
Southern and Eastern Europe would seem to have a fatalistic way of
expressing future events, while the 'barbari' of Northern and Western Europe
seem to believe in a mutable future. Or, it seems that the Latins have a
cultural mindset which regards the future as knowable, while the Northerners
don't.
I do not agree with your point.
The fact that Latin tongues have a future tense that express the absolute
convintion that something is going to happen doesn't imply that they believe
in an immutable or knowable future. As a matter of fact, Latin and its
derivative languages have a large number of future tenses to express the
possibility of something to happen or the fact that something may happen
subject to a prerequisite.
Personally I consider Latin to be a sort of scientific language, I mean a
language that provides you with specific "tools" to express in a proper way
any idea that you might have (and, to some extent, German is similar to
Latin in this).
As a matter of fact, Italian, Spanish or French grammar is much more complex
than English grammar; on the other hand, English is much more direct and
practical (and this is, to me, one of the reasons why it is so widely used).
I think that this kind of language (Latin, I mean), played a major role in
consenting to the Romans to establish a so complete corpus juris: as a
lawyer, I consider the law as a strict logic system expressed, by accident,
in words and not in symbols (as maths): this cause the precision of the
system itself to be uncertain as far as the words used are subject to
interpretation. What is exciting with Latin is that you relly do not need to
use interpretation in many circumstances for the language is clear and self
explaining as it provides any necessary "tool". It is not by accident that
we still use Latin in modern law: as a matter of fact you can explain a
juridic concept in two pages in English or Italian, while you only need a
single sentence in Latin (for example, think to the principle by which the
fact that one doesn't know the existence of a given law provision is not an
excuse for a certain criminal offence; everyone just says "ignorantia legis
non excusat").
It is not a matter, therefore, of being more or less fatalistic about the
future (which it might be, but is not reflected by the language the way you
suggest); it is much more the "inheritage" of a language that was "created"
for the sake of clarity and for serving a community of architects, lawyers,
businessmen, etc. needing precision and safety in their interactions.
Vale.
P. Fabius
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Edictum Propraetoris Italiae |
| From: |
Primus Fabius <primusfabius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT) |
|
P. FABIUS CUNCTATOR, PROPRAETOR ITALIAE, EX AUCTORITATE SUA.
Whereas
A co-operation between several provinciae has been proposed in
order to achieve a better organization in reaching Nova Roma institutional
goals;
The participation to such co-operation project has been submitted
to the Citizens of Italy without objections;
The participation to such co-operation project has been noticed to
the Senate without objections;
therefore it has been decided the following:
PROPRAETORIAL EDICT FOR THE LIMES CO-OPERATION PROJECT
I. A co-operation between the provinces of Pannonia, Germania, Italia and
Britannia is hereby established.
II. The co-operation is not restricted in its scope of application but shall
cover in particular the following fields: a) Provincial infrastructure (e.g.
website development) b) Development of common provincial administrative
standards c) Organisation of conferences and meetings d) Co-ordination of
research projects of common interest
III. The co-operation shall be implemented by all means necessary and
available in an internet-environment. In particular a restricted e-mail-list
shall be established for this purpose. Its moderator (scriba) being Legatus
Germaniae Caius Flavius Diocletianus.
IV. The co-operation is open to all provinces of Nova Roma which have been
established by Senatus Consultum. The respective provincial governor may
join the co-operation by enactment of an edictum making the co-operation
applicable in the respective province.
V. Any disputes arising out of the co-operation shall be settled by way of
mediation. A mediator has to be agreed upon by all affected governors.
Fiat!
Primus Fabius Cunctator
Propraetor Italiae
Facto in Mediolano (28.09.2000)
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Germanic view of Time? |
| From: |
StarVVreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:49:58 EDT |
|
In a message dated 9/28/00 7:25:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
primusfabius@-------- writes:
<< I do not agree with your point.
The fact that Latin tongues have a future tense that express the absolute
convintion that something is going to happen doesn't imply that they believe
in an immutable or knowable future. As a matter of fact, Latin and its
derivative languages have a large number of future tenses to express the
possibility of something to happen or the fact that something may happen
subject to a prerequisite. >>
Salve,
As far as I know, having the knowledge of 2 years of Highschool Latin from
many years ago, Latin has 6 verb tenses, only 2 of which could be considered
Future at all.
Present "I am being"
Imperfect "I was being"
Future "I will be"
Perfect "I have been"
PluPerfect "I had been"
and Future Perfect "I will have been"
Vale,
Iulius Titinius
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Gladiator |
| From: |
exitil@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:18:53 EDT |
|
Just thought that since I mentioned Gladiator a few days ago, I might also
mention that the video comes out for rental 11/21/00, incase anybody didnt
know.
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