| Subject: |
[novaroma] Resignation of a rogator |
| From: |
LSergAust@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:24:58 EDT |
|
Salvete
It is my duty to report that Rogator Merlinia Ambrosia Artori has
resigned from her position due to pressing demands in her real world
work. The Consuls and Senate are seeking candidates for this post, which
is essential for the upcoming end-of-the-year elections.
I think a session of the Senate is coming shortly - apparently at the
next legal date attended by favorable auspices. Anyone interested in
becoming a Rogator should announce their interest to the Senate. I think
the address is:
<senate@-------->
For newcomers who may not know, rogators are the officials who tally the
votes from elections.
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
Tribunus Plebis
certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [ReligioRomana] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Nonas Octobres (October 5th) |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:35:40 +0100 |
|
Salutem
As always, I am grateful to Graecus and his fellow Pontifices for their
excellent and informative daily posts on religious observance.
Today, however, I have a query on this statement:
> - It is forbidden to marry or procreate.
While I would have to agree generally that sexual abstinence is required of
those participating in religious rituals (usually from the night before the
festival, but up to a week before solemn festivals such as the Cerealia),
would not Flora and Venus be dishonoured by a refusal to celebrate that
sacred and joyous communion, over which they preside?
I have just been reading Tibullus' "Pervigilium Veneris" ("The Vigil of
Venus"), where the refrain is:
"Cras amet qui numquam amavit, quique amavit cras amet!"
(May he love tomorrow who has never loved, and may he who has, tomorrow,
love!).
>From the context of the poem, it seems to have been written for, and about,
the eve of Veneralia (Kalendas Aprilis), and is full of pleasant, suggestive
anticipations of going out to the woods and making happy encounters there,
of Love going naked, yet fully armed ("totus est in armis idem, quando
nudus est Amor.") ):-D .
Not every god is honoured in the same way, even by the same worshippers, as
Ausonius says...
Pace deorum,
N. Moravius Vado
Flamen Floralis.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Resignation of a Rogator |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:01:23 +0100 |
|
Salutem iterum
I said it when this happened before, and I'll say it again now: we need a
pool of surplus Rogatores so we don't get caught short again. I beg the
Senate to consider an establishment of *four*.
Bene valete,
Vado.
> It is my duty to report that Rogator Merlinia Ambrosia Artori has
> resigned from her position due to pressing demands in her real world
> work. The Consuls and Senate are seeking candidates for this post, which
> is essential for the upcoming end-of-the-year elections.
>
> I think a session of the Senate is coming shortly - apparently at the
> next legal date attended by favorable auspices. Anyone interested in
> becoming a Rogator should announce their interest to the Senate. I think
> the address is:
>
> <senate@-------->
>
> For newcomers who may not know, rogators are the officials who tally the
> votes from elections.
>
> Valete,
>
> Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
> Tribunus Plebis
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [ReligioRomana] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Nonas Octobres (October 5th) |
| From: |
Razenna <razenna@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Oct 2000 10:37:04 -0700 |
|
Salvete.
I was wondering about this too. I hope your questions, Vado, leads to
a good, productive discussion. These posts are a task that Graecus
has taken on entirely of his own accord, just as they come entirely
from his own studies and writing. They are not previewed by the
Collegium Pontificum. Neither are the ones that I might post when
Graecus is away (or I beat him to the punch). As such these post of
Graecus's do embody his own views and interpretations of his
scholastic pursuits. I recall a saying that Rob't Graves has Claudius
quote, "You are as likely to find two philosophers agree as you are to
find two water clocks that agree."
I have wondered about the Romans having a general prohibition against
having sex [nasty thoughts later] for the sake of maintaining purity.
I can see it, entirely with my own philosophizing, that particular
deities and rituals might require chastity. Vidal has the emperor
Julian being chaste as part of his devotion to Cybele. Since he
couldn't castrate himself, this seems like a logical substitute
sacrifice. Venus would be a Goddess that would logically require the
other. And Iuno would seem to require fidelity, as a goddess of
married life. (We know what the Hellenic myths say about her views
towards infidelity. -- Yes, those are Greek things, and the Italic
Goddess is not exactly the same. Etc.) Then there is the word choice
that Graecus used. His English is so excellent I continually forget
it is not his mother tongue. This is one instance where I'm not sure
if it is his academic precision or the word that came up. (I pick the
wrong word a lot!) "Procreate" would seem to mean sex for the sake of
making babies. There are other sexual activities, even without
contraceptives, though I would think that one was not supposed to
engage in "wild sex" before a relgio ceremony. ;-D Just as it would
be impolite to the Immortals to call upon them in any other type of
improper condition.
I also gave some thought to the other prohibitions that Graecus listed
and how they might impact, and be impacted by, real life. Not raising
armies would be easy enough to put off for a proscribed day. If one
interprets it as levying troops, not calling out the troops to repel a
Sabine cattle rustling raid.
Not marching troops is one the troops would appreciate. But then
there are those Sabine rustlers. Maybe, in those early days, it was
not that much of a problem. They knew where the Sabines were. The
punitive expedition could set off the next day that the prohibitions
were not in force. Then the Romans take back their stock and some of
the Sabines, and maybe a few Sabine scalps.
Not weighing anchor. The Romans are not known as prime seamen, but
the Etruscans were. The Etruscans were also known of as a very pious
people. And sailors are known for being extremely careful to avoid
offending anything that might cause trouble. I can also see some
owner or captain insisting that the ship get underway, and any mishap
would enforce the respect for this prohibition.
not engaging in combat is one is plain unrealistic. Sure, it might be
observable if the choice is up to the Romans. But what if the
barbarae do not cooperate? Yes. That is a rhetorical question. We
have examples of Romans, and others, losing because of, shall I call
it, misplaced piety. Of course we also have examples of the Romans
losing at times when they ignored the rules of the Religio (yes, I'm
thinking of the chickens).
And I will stop this little bit of ruminating over the interesting
points Vado put forward.
[excuses, excuses: the family can efficiently and pleasantly distract
thought trains.]
Valete.
C.Aelius Ericius.
Augur et Pontiff.
--- In novaroma@--------, "Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@d...> wrote:
>
> Salutem
>
> As always, I am grateful to Graecus and his fellow Pontifices for
their
> excellent and informative daily posts on religious observance.
>
> Today, however, I have a query on this statement:
>
> > - It is forbidden to marry or procreate.
>
> While I would have to agree generally that sexual abstinence is
required of
> those participating in religious rituals (usually from the night
before the
> festival, but up to a week before solemn festivals such as the
Cerealia),
> would not Flora and Venus be dishonoured by a refusal to celebrate
that
> sacred and joyous communion, over which they preside?
> I have just been reading Tibullus' "Pervigilium Veneris" ("The Vigil
of
> Venus"), where the refrain is:
>
> "Cras amet qui numquam amavit, quique amavit cras amet!"
> (May he love tomorrow who has never loved, and may he who has,
tomorrow,
> love!).
>
> From the context of the poem, it seems to have been written for, and
about,
> the eve of Veneralia (Kalendas Aprilis), and is full of pleasant,
suggestive
> anticipations of going out to the woods and making happy encounters
there,
> of Love going naked, yet fully armed ("totus est in armis idem,
quando
> nudus est Amor.") ):-D .
>
> Not every god is honoured in the same way, even by the same
worshippers, as
> Ausonius says...
>
> Pace deorum,
>
> N. Moravius Vado
> Flamen Floralis.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: [ReligioRomana] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Nonas... |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:24:40 EDT |
|
In a message dated 10/7/2000 10:43:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
razenna@-------- writes:
<< Not raising
armies would be easy enough to put off for a proscribed day. If one
interprets it as levying troops, not calling out the troops to repel a
Sabine cattle rustling raid. >>
Salvete!
The Lakedaimonians were famous for this. They would not move troops, during
the feast of Apollo. Since this would last for two weeks, that is a long
time, militarily wise. Herodatus claims this is the reason why Athens had to
face the Persians and Iranians alone at Marathon.
As for sex no sex, most of my studies seem to indicate orgastic gods expected
orgasmic rites. Pious gods did not. Most gods dedicated to the fields and
crops were lusty, since fertile went hand in hand with sexual prowess. When
I was in Tuscany at a small town, I became involved in some wine festival,
were after the first crush, the whole town had huge party. This involved
drinking wine, eating food and grabbing any women between 19-40 that would
make herself available.
And these were Catholics! No doubt this festival can be traced back to some
god or goddess that this feast was supposed to please for a successful crush.
The wine was bitter btw. Maybe had we sacrificed more it would have been
sweeter?
Domicile deities seem to be more cerebral, and less sexual.
Valete
Q. Fabius
|
| Subject: |
[Fwd: [novaroma] Re: Resignation of a Rogator] |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:46:42 -0700 |
|
Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> Ave,
>
> How can the Senate establish four when we dont have that many people who are
> interested in applying?
>
> We need people who are willing to give their time to NR.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> Nick Ford wrote:
>
> > Salutem iterum
> >
> > I said it when this happened before, and I'll say it again now: we need a
> > pool of surplus Rogatores so we don't get caught short again. I beg the
> > Senate to consider an establishment of *four*.
> >
> > Bene valete,
> >
> > Vado.
> >
> > > It is my duty to report that Rogator Merlinia Ambrosia Artori has
> > > resigned from her position due to pressing demands in her real world
> > > work. The Consuls and Senate are seeking candidates for this post, which
> > > is essential for the upcoming end-of-the-year elections.
> > >
> > > I think a session of the Senate is coming shortly - apparently at the
> > > next legal date attended by favorable auspices. Anyone interested in
> > > becoming a Rogator should announce their interest to the Senate. I think
> > > the address is:
> > >
> > > <senate@-------->
> > >
> > > For newcomers who may not know, rogators are the officials who tally the
> > > votes from elections.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
> > > Tribunus Plebis
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Away... |
| From: |
Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 07 Oct 2000 21:46:00 +0200 |
|
Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.
Due to a one-week-trip I´m without Internet-connection from October 8th
until October 15th. I wish all Quirites sunny days, health and
interesting discussions.
Ave et Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Legatus Germaniae
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Resignation of a Rogator |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:31:29 +0100 |
|
Quiritibus salutem
Inquit Sulla:
> How can the Senate establish four when we dont have that many people who
are
> interested in applying?
Respondeo:
I would like to answer this question by asking another: how does Sulla know
that fewer than four cives are interested in applying?
Post haec iterum Sulla:
> We need people who are willing to give their time to NR.
Iam respondeo:
I agree. But an attitude that assumes people don't want to know is something
we DON'T need in Nova Roma. Perhaps if we all used that little word "if"
rather more than the word "when" in our deliberations, things might go
better.
Last time we allowed ourselves to drift up the electoral creek without a
paddle, more citizens applied for the job of Rogator than were accepted.
What I'm saying here is that we should have taken everybody on who applied.
We didn't. Now we're in the same fix again. Of course it may just so happen
that we get only one applicant, in which case it would still make sense to
continue to trawl for more until we get more. Or risk our democratic
processes being disrupted yet again, which I'm sure nobody wants. Nonne,
Sulla?
Besides, we have an establishment of many posts in NR which have remained
vacant since Day One. This does not justify our ceasing to attempt to fill
these established positions, either. The posts are there because somebody
thought it
was a good idea.
N. Moravius Vado.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
> Nick Ford wrote:
>
> > Salutem iterum
> >
> > I said it when this happened before, and I'll say it again now: we need
a
> > pool of surplus Rogatores so we don't get caught short again. I beg the
> > Senate to consider an establishment of *four*.
> >
> > Bene valete,
> >
> > Vado.
> >
> > > It is my duty to report that Rogator Merlinia Ambrosia Artori has
> > > resigned from her position due to pressing demands in her real world
> > > work. The Consuls and Senate are seeking candidates for this post,
which
> > > is essential for the upcoming end-of-the-year elections.
> > >
> > > I think a session of the Senate is coming shortly - apparently at the
> > > next legal date attended by favorable auspices. Anyone interested in
> > > becoming a Rogator should announce their interest to the Senate. I
think
> > > the address is:
> > >
> > > <senate@-------->
> > >
> > > For newcomers who may not know, rogators are the officials who tally
the
> > > votes from elections.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
> > > Tribunus Plebis
>
>
|
